>> Reilly: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," THE REPORT IS IN ABOUT HOW THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT BUSINESSES DOING WHAT SO FAR GOVERNOR BAKER WON'T, MANDATING VACCINES FOR EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS, THEN LATER THE REPORT ON HOW THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT HANDLED A CHILD MOLESTATION CHARGE AGAINST FORMER COP AND TOP UNION LEADER PATRICK ROSE.

BUT AT JUST FIVE PAGES LONG WITH NO SPECIFICS ABOUT WHO, WHAT AND WHEN IT RAISES MORE QUESTIONS THAN IT ANSWERS.

SENIOR EDITOR YAWU MILLER AND SARAYA WINTERSMITH JOIN US.

PLANK BLANK A A WOWT MONDAY WON A MILLION BUCKS AND A TEENAGER FROM CHELSEA WON A $300,000 COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIP, THE FIRST TWO CHOSEN IN THE STATE'S VACS MILLIONS LOTTERY SWEEP STAKES.

MY MOM CALLED ME AND SAY YOU WON.

I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

>> IT WAS RATHER IMPORTANT FOR ME TO ACTUALLY DO THIS, IN ORDER TO GET THE VACCINATION BECAUSE I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE COPOR BIDDITY.

>> GOVERNOR BAKER SAID NEARLY 2 MILLION ADULTS AND 135,000 TEENS HAVE SIGNED UP FOR THE DRAWING SO FAR.

DESIGNED TO ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND GET VACCINATED.

OPTING FOR THE CARROT OVER THE STICK, THE GOVERNOR SO FAR HAS BEEN WARY OF ANY KIND OF VACCINE MANDATE.

BUT ESPECIALLY AFTER THE FEDERAL EQUAL EMPLOYMENT COMMISSION RULE THAT IS LEGAL TO DO SO, MANY BUSINESSES AND ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BEEN TAKING THE STICK ROUTE AND IMPOSEK MANDATES ON THEIR EMPLOYEES THEMSELVES.

SOME HAVE ALSO BEEN IMPOSING THE SAME RULES ON THEIR CUSTOMERS INCLUDING MY NEXT GUEST.

JAMES GRAYSICK A PRODUCER AV JACKS CAR A BAR AND QUARRY KEULZER, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> FOR PEOPLE NOT FAMILIAR WITH YOUR OPERATIONS, CAN YOU GIVE'S BRIEF INTRODUCTION AND JAIMENTS, LET'S START WITH YOU, I DON'T SPEAK FRENCH, I DON'T KNOW IF I SAID JACQUE RIGHT, SO FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME, TELL ME ABOUT THE CAR ARRAY.

>> YES, IT IS JACQUE'S CABARET T IS FRENCH.

IT IS PRIMARILY A DRAG VENU.

WE DO DRAG SHOWS SIX NIGHTS A WEEK.

THERE IS AN UPSTAIRS AND DOWNSTAIRS VENU AND I AM VERY PRIVILEGED TO BE ABLE TO RUN THE DOWNSTAIRS VENU.

>> Reilly: ALL RIGHT AND CARRI, FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW GRENDELS, WHICH IS WHERE I GOT ENGAGED TO MY WIFE HALF A LIFETIME AGOK I KNOW IF WELL BUT SOME MAY NOT, TELL US ABOUT GRENDELS.

>> GRENDEL'S DEN IS A RESTAURANT AND BAR IN HARVARD SQUARE.

WE'VE BEEN IN THE SAME LOCATION FOR 50 YEARS AND IT'S A FAMILY BUSINESS THAT MY PARENTED STARTED IN 1971 AND THAT I TOOK OVER IN 2003.

AND BY THE WAY, I AM A HUGE FAN OF JACQUES.

I AM REALLY EXCITED TO HAVE HIM HERE.

>> SO WHAT I WANT TO HEAR FROM BOTH OF YOU IS WHEN AND HOW YOU CAME TO THE DECISION TO IMPOSE YOUR OWN VACCINE MANDATES.

JAMES, LET'S START WITH YOU.

HOW DID YOU GUYS COME TO THIS POINT?

>>.

>> MINE HAS KIND-OF-BEEN A PERSONAL MISSION SINCE THE PANDEMIC STARTED.

I STARTED HIRING PERFORMERS FOR VARIOUS SHOWS ABOUT TWO MONTHS OKAY AND FROM THE BEGINNING I HAVE BEEN MANDATING THE YOU HAVE TO SHOW YOUR VACCINATION CARD, THAT IS PATIENT OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT.

I'M JUST NOT GOING TO PUT PEOPLE IN A DRESSING ROOM.

IT'S JUST NOT SAFE.

SO ABOUT A MONTH AGO I STARTED TALKING TO THE ACTUAL BAR OWNERS ABOUT SAFETY AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE THESE SHOWS AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

A LOT OF BARS ARE VERY HESITANT.

BUT JACQUES, WHEN I SPOKE TO MANAGEMENT THERE, THE FIRST THING THEY SAID WAS IT IS A GREAT IDEA, THREE MINUTE, A TWO MINUTE CONVERSATION, THREE MINUTES LATER SHE TOLD ME TO HIRE PPE AND GET EVERYTHING GOING.

I'M HAPPY I WORK FOR AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT WAS WILLING TO TAKE SAFETY FIRST.

>> Reilly: CARRI, HOW BUT, HOW DID GRENDELS ARRIVE AT THE POINT, AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, I THINK IN BOTH YOUR CASES, YOU ARE REQUIRING THE OPERATIONS THAT YOU WORK WITH TO HAVE EMPLOYEES DEMONSTRATE PROOF OF VACCINATION AND CUSTOMERS TO SHOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN VAXXED.

SO HOW DID YOU GET THERE.

>> WE'VE BEEN PRETTY ACTIVE ABOUT SEEKING AS MANY MEASURES TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF COVID SINCE THE BEGINNING REGARDLESS OF WHAT WAS BEING MANDATED BY THE STATE, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO WE'VE BB WORKING ON THE VACCINATION PRIORITY TO CUSTOMERS AND STAFF THAT HAVE VACCINES SKINS IT BECAME AVAILABLE.

PRIOR TO THAT WE WERE TESTING OUR STAFF IN A SURVEILLANCE MODE BIWEEKLY SO WE KIND OF TRANSITIONED FROM TESTING INTO THE VACCINE PROOF, AS PART OF THAT AM PRACTICE.

SO IT WAS ALREADY BUILT INTO THAT PROGRAM.

>> Reilly: I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE THINGS I HAVEN'T EVEN THOUGHT OF.

HOW DOES IT WORK ON A DAY TO DAY LEVEL, I WILL STAY WITH YOU BUT THEN TO YOU, JAMES, IF I GO INTO GRINDEL'S TONIGHT, WHAT ARE THEY ASKING FOR?

ARE THEY ASKING FOR MY CDC VACCINE CARD?

ARE THEY ASKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE, DO THEY ACCEPT OTHER THINGS, I ACTUALLY LOST MY FIRST VACCINATION CARD SO I HAD TO GET A SECOND ONE WATCH.

ARE YOU REQUIRING AND HOW MUCH LEEWAY IF ANY DO YOU GIVE CUSTOMERS?

>> WE REALLY TRY TO GIVE PEOPLE AS MUCH LEEWAY IN AS MANY WAYS AS POSSIBLE TO INDICATE TO US OR SHOW US WITH SOME CONFIDENCE THAT THEY'RE VACCINATED.

PEOPLE ARE FREQUENTLY BRINGING THEIR VACCINATION CARD WITH THEM OR THEIR PHOTO OF IT, AND THE PHOTOS OF IT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE POINT HERE IS NOT SECURITY TO THE POINT OF LIKE OH MY GOD, SOMEBODY COULD FAKE A VACCINE.

WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS BE AS PROACTIVE AS POSSIBLE AND REWARD PEOPLE FOR THEIR VACCINATION.

BY GIVING THEM PRIVILEGES.

AND ACCESS.

SO IF THEY HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF THEIR CARD, IF THEY HAVE THEIR CDC CARD, IF THEY HAVE AN APP, SAY THEY COME FROM NEW YORK OR ANOTHER COUNTRY THAT USES AN APP, WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO GET OUR OWN APP GOING, WORKING WITH THE FOUNDATION TO USE DIGITAL TOOLS THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING ON.

WE HOPE THAT WILL MAKE IT EASIER IF THERE WAS ONE IN MASSACHUSETTS, LIKE THE EXCELSIOR PASS.

WE WILL EVEN ACCEPT THE CONFIRMATION EMAIL FOR YOUR VACCINE APPOINTMENT.

BUT AS LONG AS IT MATCHES YOUR I.D.

ON YOUR-- FAME ON YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE WHICH WE ARE CHECKING THAT ANYWAY IF YOU ARE DRINKING, THERE IS A LOT MORE INFORMATION ON YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE THAN YOUR VAX CARD.

>> JAMES, IF I WERE TO GO TO JACQUE, WHAT WOULD I HAVE TO DO AND WOULD I HAVE THE SAME FLEXIBILITY WHEN IT COMES TO PROVIDING PROOF THAT I WOULD AT GRENDELS?

>> YEAH, AND I THINK YOU JUST PUT THAT SO ELOQUENTLY T IS NOT ABOUT HUNTING PEOPLE DOWN, IT'S NOT ABOUT PUNISHING PEOPLE, IT'S ABOUT MAKING SURE OF SAFETY, COMING FIRST.

BASICALLY EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID T ST THE SAME AS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

ALL WE'RE SAYING IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR VACCINATION OR IF YOU DON'T HAVE PROOF OF VACCINATION, WE JUST NEED YOU TO WEAR A MASK.

WE NEED YOU TO TRY AND HELP US TO CURB THE SPREAD.

AND YOU KNOW, I PUT IT IN A COUPLE OTHER INTERVIEWS I HAD.

YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT IS POLITICAL, WHETHER IT IS SOMETHING YOU THINK WAS MANMADE IN THE FACTORY, IT DOESN'T MATTER T IS A REAL DISEASE KILLING REAL PEOPLE, WE NEED TO TREAT IT WITH THAT REQUEST.

>> JUST SO I AM CLEAR, AT JACQUE IF YOU DON'T HAVE PROOF OF VACCINATION, THEN YOU CAN WEAR A MASK.

TO BE INSIDE.

>> YEAH.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> AND WE DO HAVE MASKS ON HAND.

AND YOU KNOW, EVEN IF YOU HAVE YOUR PROOF OF VACCINATION AND ARE YOU JUST FEELING A LITTLE UNSAFE BECAUSE THERE'S MR PEOPLE THAN YOU EXPECTED, THOSE MASKS ARE FOR EVERYONE.

AND ALL OF THAT PPE IS THERE FOR ANYONE WHO NEEDS IT AND FEELS LIKE THEY NEED IT.

>> Reilly: I SAY, AS A VAXXED PERSON WHO STILL WEARED A MASK IN STORES AND, YEAH, I APPRECIATE THAT.

CARRI, AT GRENDELS, IF YOU ARE UNVAXED CAN YOU GO IN AND WEAR A MASK OR IS IT NO ADMISSION?

>> PRIOR TO TODAY, WE WERE ALLOWING UNVACCINATED PEOPLE OR WE WEREN'T SCREENING FOR VACCINES DURING NONPEAK HOURS, FOR US IT IS LESS ABOUT THE MASK BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T TIPLY-- TYPICALLY MASKING WHEN THEY ARE EATING AN DRINGING, SO THERE IS UNMASKING HAPPENINGS BUT ST MORE ABOUT THE CAPACITY OF RESTRICTIONS BEING LIFTED.

WE ARE THRILLED TO HAVE THEM LIFTED BUT IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE CLOSE TOGETHER WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT AT RISK.

AND UNVACCINATED PEOPLED ARE AT RISK IF THEY ARE INDOORS AND THEY ARE IN A FULL CAPACITY RESTAURANT OR BAR, WHERE EVERYONE IS PRETTY MUCH NOT GOING TO HAVE A MASK ON NO MATTER WHAT THE GUIDANCE IS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T, YOU NEED YOUR MOUTH, LIKE SO AND YOU'RE TALKING AND EVERYONE IS TALKING.

AND PEOPLE'S VOICES GET LOUDER WHEN THEY-- WHEN THERE IS MORE PEOPLE IN THERE.

>> ALSO IF YOU HAVE A BEER OR TWO YOUR VOICES MIGHT GET-- RIGHT.

>> AND THAT HAPPENS AS WELL.

>> BUT SO IT IS REALLY ABOUT CAPACITY.

IF YOU ARE UNVACCINATED WE OFFER OUTDOOR SEATING ONLY.

>> GOT IT.

>> AND THAT IS DURING PEAK HOURS F IT WAS SLOW OR EMPTY, WE WOULDN'T FEEL AS IF IT WAS AS BIG A RISK, IT WOULD BE JUST LIKE BEFORE, BEFORE THE CAPACITY WERE LIFTED, WE TRY TO SAVE FACE AND WE HAD DISTANCING.

IF THE RESTAURANT IS EMPTY, YOU'RE FINE.

TODAY HOWEVER, THE CDC AND WHAT I AM SEEING FROM THE WAY OUR-- THE RECOMMENDATION IS THAT MASKS ARE WORN BY EVERYONE IN AN INDOOR SETTING IN HIGH-RISK AREAS.

IN SUFFOLK COUNTY WHERE CAMBRIDGE IS IS HIGH RISK AS IDENTIFY BY THE STATE SO WHEN I PUT THOSE TWO GUIDANCES TOGETHER, WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED A MASK WEARING POLICY INDOORS WHICH MEANS THE MASK, DINERS SHOULD BE MASKED WHEN NOT ACTIVELY EATING OR DRINKING AND WE ARE REQUIRING ANYONE WHO COMES INDOOR TO BE VACCINATED.

>> Reilly: GOTCHA.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT PUSHBACK.

>> MOSTLY, JUST BY THE WAY, BECAUSE WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE COUNTY STOP BEING A HIGH-RISK AREA.

AND THE WAY TO GET THAT TO HAPPEN IS FOR MORE PEOPLE TO GET VACS NAILTED.

BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN THE MOST POWERFUL AND EFFECTIVE TOOL TO REDUCE THE RATE OF COVID.

>> FROM YOUR MOUTH TO GOD'S EARS, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT PUSHBACK.

JAMES, YOU MENTIONED PEOPLE WHO MIGHT THINK THAT IT WAS, WHATEVER, INDULGING CONDITION SPIRACY THEORIES THAT HAVE BEEN DE BUNKED ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF COVID OR WHETHER VACCINES ARE GOOD FOR YOU OR NOT.

I'M WONDERING HOW MUCH PUSHBACK EACH OF YOU HAVE HAD, BOTH FROM THE PUBLIC BUT ALSO WHETHER YOU HAVE HAD ANY EMPLOYEES WHO SAID WAIT A MINUTE, YOU'RE GOING TOO FAR HERE.

I'M JUST NOT COMFORTABLE WITH IT.

I DON'T ACCEPT THIS CONDITION THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO IMPOSE ON ME.

>> AND I WILL TELL YOU, THE ONLY PUSHBACK THAT I RECEIVED WHEN I HAD THESE CONVERSATIONS HAS BEEN FROM MANAGEMENT WHO WAS AFRAID TO INCONVENIENCE PEOPLE.

ALMOST EVERY EMPLOYEE I TALKED TO, UNLESS YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TALK BEHIND YOUR BACK, YOU NEVER KNOW, BUT EVERYONE I TALKED TO SAID NOTHING BUT THANK YOU FOR THINKS OF OUR SAFETY.

OF COURSE THE COMMENT SECTION IS ALWAYS THE BEST TOOL.

>> IT IS.

>> SO THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE COMMENT SECTION WHO I KNOW HAVE NEVER BEEN IN OUR ESTABLISHMENT.

BUT THEY'RE COMING OUT BECAUSE THEY'RE SEEING IT ON THE NEWS AND THEY HAVE TO PUT IN THEIR TWO KREBTS.

WHICH I KNEW WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Reilly: YEAH.

>> YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, THIS VIRUS HAS BECOME SO POLITICALLY CHARGED THAT IT ST NO LONGER ABOUT THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF PEOPLE, IT'S ABOUT THE POLITICAL GAMES LINED IT AND IT IS UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DYING.

>> Reilly: IT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

CARRI, HAVE YOU HAD ANY CUSTOMERS, SERVERS, BARTENDERS, ANYONE SAY WAIT A MINUTE, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING?

>> OUR STAFF ARE LARGELY THRILLED THAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS.

THEY REALLY APPRECIATED THE TYING PROGRAM THAT WE DID.

WE ACTUALLY STARTED TESTING AGAIN, NOW, EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE IS VACCINATED.

THERE WERE DEFINITELY SOME PEOPLE WHO HAD REAL CONCERNS AND REAL FEAR ABOUT GETTING VACCINATED.

THESE ARE FOLKS WHO JUST DON'T LIKE NEEDLES, OR WHO DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE A DAY OF FEELING CRUMBY BECAUSE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, TO WORK.

AND THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE MONEY, SO WE DEFINITELY REASSURED OUR STAFF WHO WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE DAY OFF FROM WORK BEING FIXED, THAT WE WOULD PAY THEM.

AND THAT HELPED A LOT.

THE FOLKS WHO ARE AFRAID OF NEEDLES, YOU KNOW, REALLY JUST OFFER TO HOLD THEIR HANDS AND MAKE SURE THEY UNDERSTOOD HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS FOR THEM TO GO THROUGH FOR THAT FEAR, NONE OF THEM WERE UPSET ABOUT NEEDING TO DO THAT FOR WORK BECAUSE WE REALLY JUST BROUGHT THEM ALONG AS PART OF THE WHOLE WE'RE IN THIS TOGETHER PROCESS OF KEEPING EVERYONE SAFE.

IT HELPS THAT WE HAD A TRACK RECORD OF ALREADY HELPING KEEP THEM SAFE BY DOING TESTING AND GENUINELY LIKE YOU KNOW, KEEPING THEIR, THE CONDITIONS SAFE FOR THE RESTAURANT.

THAT HELPED.

>> LET ME ASK YOU EACH ONE QUESTION IN CLOSING.

I WOULD LOVE A BRIEF ANSWER FROM BOTH OF YOU.

WOULD IT BE HELPFUL FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT TO HAVE THE STATE TAKE MORE OF A LEADERSHIP ROLE HERE AND SAY THIS IS WHAT WE WANT BUSINESSES TO DO JAMES, I HEAR YOU CHUCK ELLING, SO LET'S START WITH YOU.

>> I WISH ANY PART OF OUR GOVERNMENT WOULD TAKE MORE OF A LEADERSHIP ROLE IN THIS, I REALLY, AND I'M SURE YOU BOTH AGREE WITH THIS, THAT COVID, THE ENTIRE TIME HAS KIND OF BEEN A JUST THROW EM OUT AND LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> COUNTRY, I HEAR YOU.

>> YEAH.

SO EVERYONE IS TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

IT IS CAUSING A LOT OF FIGHTS, ESPECIALLY MONGSZ BUSINESSES BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE RIGHT ANSWER IS.

>> Reilly: CARRI, HOW BUT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE FOR EXAMPLE GOVERNOR BAKER OR SOMEONE ELSE SAY HEY, PEOPLE SHOULD BE DOING VACCINATING BEFORE THEY GO INTO A BUSINESS, FOR EXAMPLE.

OR REQUIRING IT?

>> SO I ACTUALLY THINK A LITTLE BIT CONTROVERSIALLY THAT IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO, FOR A COUPLE OF REASON, ONE I THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD ENCOURAGE BUSINESSES TO DO IT WE ARE REALLY ESPECIALLY RESTAURANTS, RIGHT THERE, WE'RE THE TYPE OF COMMUNITY-BASED ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE WAY BETTER AT GETTING A MESSAGE TO PEOPLE AND EDUCATING PEOPLE ON THE IMPORTANCE OF VACCINES AND WE ARE ALSO IN A POSITION TO DIRECTLY REWARD THEM FOR THEIR ACTIONS BY THINGS LIKE GIVING THEM A DISCOUNT OR ANYTHING, OR JUST GIVING THEM A BETTER EXPERIENCE AT THE RESTAURANT.

>> Reilly: BUT YOU DON'T WANT THE GOVERNOR TO HAVE A MANDATE.

>> I THINK AS PEOPLE ARE POR WIDG TO TRUST A PROGRAM, THAT IS SOMETHING AS PART OF CAPITALISM, LIKE GOOD OLD-FASHIONED MIGHTY DOLLAR.

THEY CAN SPEND IT WHEREVER THEY WANT TO, BUT THAT CONSUMER CHOICE GIVES THEM A FEELING OF BEING MORE IN CONVERSATION WITH THE PROCESS, SO I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE ARE MORE WILLING TO TRUST AND ACCEPT VACCINE POLICIES OR MANDATES IF THEY COME FROM THE BUSINESSES THAT THEY INTERACT WITH, BECAUSE IT IS COMING FROM A TRUSTED PARTNER THAT THEY ALREADY ENGAGE IT.

>> Reilly: WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

>> IT FEELS A LITTLE BIG BROTHERY, SO I THINK WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT GIVE US A REWARD.

>> Reilly: GOT IT.

>> FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU, THAT'S A GOOD POINT TO END ON.

CARRI AND JAMES, THANK YOU BOTH FOR GOING OVER THIS WITH ME.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: >> Reilly: IN APRIL OF THIS YEAR, THE "BOSTON GLOBE" PUBLISHED A BOMBSHELL REPORT ABOUT SOME DEEPLY DISTURBING ALLEGATIONS INVOLVING PATRICK ROSE, THE FORMER HEAD OF THE BOSTON POLICE PATROLMEN'S ASSOCIATION.

THE "GLOBE" REVEALED THAT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, ROSE'S EMPLOYER, HAD FILED A CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM WAY BACK IN 1995, FOR ALLEGEDLY SEXUALLY ASSAULTING A 12-YEAR-OLD CHILD.

THE CASE WAS DROPPED AFTER THE ALLEGED VICTIM RECANTED.

BUT EVEN THOUGH A SUBSEQUENT INTERNAL INVESTIGATION FOUND THAT ROSE WAS PROBABLY GUILTY, HE STAYED ON THE JOB, CONTINUED WORKING WITH VULNERABLE CHILDREN, AND BECAME HEAD OF HIS UNION.

NOW ROSE IS RETIRED, AND FACING TRIAL, ACCUSED OF SEXUALLY ASSAULTING SIX MINORS.

AFTER THE "GLOBE" BROKE THE STORY, ACTING MAYOR KIM JANEY SAID HER ADMINISTRATION WOULD CONDUCT A FULL REVIEW OF ROSE'S CASE, AND TODAY, SHE RELEASED ITS FINDINGS.

>> DIRECTOR EVERRETT HAS IDENTIFIED THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES IN PLACE AT THAT TIME OF THE ROSE CASE AND HAS ISSUED RECOMMENDATIONS TO ENSURE THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

>> Reilly: BUT IF YOU WERE HOPING FOR AN IN-DEPTH ACCOUNTING OF HOW AN ACCUSED CHILD MOLESTER KEPT HIS JOB AS A BOSTON POLICE OFFICER FOR DECADES, YOU MAY BE DISAPPOINTED.

THE REPORT IS JUST FIVE PAGES LONG, AND FOCUSES ON GENERAL B.P.D.

POLICIES AS OPPOSED TO SPECIFIC DECISIONS MADE BY KEY INDIVIDUALS.

ALL OF WHICH RAISES SOME BIG QUESTIONS.

WILL THE PUBLIC EVER KNOW THE FULL STORY OF HOW AND WHY ROSE KEPT HIS JOB?

IF NOT, HOW CAN PEOPLE REST ASSURED THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN?

AND FINALLY, HOW WILL WHAT WE'VE LEARNED, AND WHAT WE HAVEN'T, AFFECT BOSTON'S MAYORAL RACE.

JOINING ME TO TALK IT ALL THROUGH ARE MY COLLEAGUE SARAYA WINTERSMITH, WHO COVERS BOSTON CITY HALL FOR GBH NEWS, AND YAWU MILLER, THE SENIOR EDITOR OF THE "BAY STATE BANNER."

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> SARAYA LET ME START WITH YOU, THIS REPORT HAS BEEN IN THE MAKING FOR THREE MONTHS, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR IT ANXIOUSLY.

WERE THINK EXPECTING TO GET, YOU THINK, WHAT THEY GOT TODAY, A FIVE PAGE DOCUMENT THAT IS LIGHT ON SPECIFICS AND FOCUSED SORT OF ON THE MACRO PICTURE?

>> ADAM, I THINK IT'S HARD TO SAY DEPENDING ON WHO YOU TALK TO.

I KNOW IN THE PRESS CORPS WHEN JANEY TOOK QUESTIONS AT HER CONFERENCE THIS AFTERNOON ALL OF US WERE WONDERING WHEN WE MIGHT KNOW WHO KNEW WHAT, WHEN.

THOSE QUESTIONS WERE NOT ANSWERED.

I THINK TO THE ADMINISTRATION'S CREDIT, THEY DID SAY IN THAT FIVE PAGE BRIEF THAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS AREN'T NEW.

IN FACT THEY REFERENCE MULTIPLE TIMES THE 1992 ST. CLAIRE REPORT SAYING HAD THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS BEEN IMPLEMENTED FROM YEARS AGO, IT MAY HAVE EVEN PREVENTED WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW.

>> Reilly: YAWU, LET ME ASK IF THIS IS WHAT YOU WERE EXPECTING, BECAUSE AS I MENTIONED AT THE OUTSET, WE TALKED ABOUT POLICIES AS SARAYA JUST MENTIONED.

I WANT TO GET TO THE ST. CLAIRE REPORT IN A MOMENT BUT DID YOU THINK THERE WAS GOING TO BE MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW INDIVIDUALS IN THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, MAYBE IN BOSTON CITY HALL, FOR EXAMPLE, FORMER MAYOR TOM MENINO, HOW THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE SITUATION?

>> I THINK YES, I MEAN I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED TO SEE MORE IN THIS REPORT.

HOWEVER THE BROAD STROKES ARE THERE, YEAH, I MEAN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, COMMISSIONER, THE MAYOR, THAT THERE IS A LEVEL OF COMPLICIT THAT STEMS FROM THE FAILURE TO EMBRACE THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE ST. CLAIRE COMMISSION REPORT MORE BROADLY.

IT WAS A MINDSET THAT POLICE DID NOT HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN THE SAME WAY THAT WE HOLD OTHER PUBLIC OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE.

>> SINCE THE ST. CLAIRE REPORT HAS COME UP A FEW TIMES, I HAD IT SAVED AS A LATER QUESTION BUT LET'S DO A LITTLE HISTORY QUESTION FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NEED A REFRESHER.

WHAT WAS, AND EACH OF YOU CAN TAKE A CRACK AT THIS, MAYBE WE'LL START WITH YOU YAWU, WHAT WAS THE ST. CLAIRE COMMISSION REPORT AND WHY DIDN'T ITS RECOMMENDATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO CHANGING POLICE IN BOSTON, WHY DIDN'T THEY COME TO BE REALITY?

>> IN THE WAKE OF THE CHARLES STEWART CASE WHICH WAS A CASE IN WHICH A MAN KILLED HIS WIFE AND THEN BLAMED A BLACK MAN WHO DIDN'T EXIST, YOU KNOW, JUST MADE UP A-- MADE UP A CULPRIT, PLICE RESPONDED BY STOPPING PRETTY MUCH EVERY BLACK PERSON IN BOSTON BETWEEN THE AGE OF 13 AND 50, AND, YOU KNOW, MASSIVE CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS BY THE POLICE.

WHICH YOU KNOW, WERE STANDARD AT THAT TIME AND ARGUABLY CONTINUE TO THIS DAY, YOU KNOW, STOP AND SEARCH, STOPPING PEOPLE WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE.

SO IN THE WAKE OF ALL THIS, AFTER IT CAME OUT THAT CHARLES STEWART HAD INDEED MURDERED HIS OWN WIFE AND THAT THERE WAS NO, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER THEY WERE LOOKING FOR DIDN'T EXIST, THERE WAS SOME SOUL SEARCHING IF BOSTON.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE I THINK RECOGNIZED FOR A BRIEF MOMENT THAT THE POLICE HAD REACTED IN A MANNER THAT WAS RACIST AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS TOTALLY-- WITH TOTAL DISREGARD FOR THE RIGHTS OF BLACK MEN IN BOSTON.

I CAN'T UNDERSCORE HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE STOPPED AND SEARCHED AND TREATED ROUGHLY AND DISRESPECTED BY POLICE.

IN THE WALK OF THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A FEELING THAT THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEY COMMISSIONED A REPORT 69 JAMES ST. CLAIRE WHO IS A PROMINENT ATTORNEY ARE GOING BACK DECADES, HE REPRESENTS RICHARD NIXON AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, FAMOUS PLAINTIFFS, HE TOOK THIS CASE, HE ISSUED A REPORT SAYING THAT, I WOULD SAY THE MAJOR FINDING IS THAT BOSTON NEEDS AN INDEPENDENT CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD, YOU KNOW, WHICH WAS DISREGARDED BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED UNTIL ALMOST 30 YEARS.

>> Reilly: IT JUST HAPPENED.

SO THAT REPORT CAME OUT IN 1992.

SARAYA LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WASN'T IN THE REPORT.

IF I READ IT CORRECTLY, AND TELL ME IF I MISSED IT.

THERE WERE REFERENCES TO THE ST. CLAIRE COMMISSION AND PROPOSALS THAT WERE NOT IMPLEMENTED THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN, MAYBE THAT NOW HAVE BEEN.

BUT I DON'T RECALL THE NAMES OF FORMER MAYOR MARTY WALSH, FORMER MAYOR TOM MENINO OR FORMER MAYOR RAY FLIN COMING UP AT ALL.

CERTAINLY NOT, THEY WEREN'T SINGLED OUT AS PEOPLE WHO FAILED TO MAKE THESE CHANGES.

AM I REMEMBERING CORRECTLY?

WERE THEY MENTIONED AT ALL?

>> YOU ARE REMEMBERING CORRECTLY.

NONE OF THOSE NAMES WERE MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY.

THE MAYOR ACTUALLY STOPPED SHORT OF FAULTING THE THEN POLICE COMMISSIONER PAUL EVANS, EVEN THOUGH SHE PRETTY MUCH SAID THE POLICE COMMISSIONER IS THE PERSON WHO HAD THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY TO TAKE THE STEP AND TERMINATE ROSE.

I THINK WITH THE MAYORAL RACE KIND OF LOOMING OVER EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, AND JANEY BEING A PERSON WHO IS CAMPAIGNING FOR A FULL TERM, SHE'S IN A BIT OF A TRICKY PLACE IN THAT SHE PROBABLY DOESN'T WANT TO ALIEN EIGHT ANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIKED ANY OF THE POLITICAL FIGURES THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

AND SO I THINK IT'S VERY INTENTIONAL AND CAREFUL NOT TO MENTION ANY OF THE NAMES THAT YOU MENTIONED.

>> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THE POLITICAL PIECE BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT, EVEN THOUGH THE UNDERLYING ISSUE IS PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANT, THEY GO HAND-IN-HAND.

AN TRAYA CAMPBELL, THE BOSTON CITY COUNSELOR WHO IS RUNNING ONE OF JANEY MAYORAL ARRIVALS PUT OUT A STATEMENT WHICH I BELIEVE WE HAVE A VERY TOUGH STATEMENT SAYING ESSENTIALLY THAT THE REPORT WAS INADEQUATE.

I WILL JUST READ A BIT OF IT.

CAMPBELL SAID THE REPORT RELEASED TODAY DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY SIGNIFICANT NEW INCITE.

IT'S TIME FOR A REAL INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION LEAD BY THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO FIND OUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED HERE AND GIVE RESIDENTS TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY THEY DESERVE.

I LOVE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THE REPORT MAKES, BECAUSE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY MINE, THESE WERE THINGS I FOUGHT FOR WHEN DRAFTING LEGISLATION LAST YEAR TO CREATE THE CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD.

SO YAWU, LET ME ASK YOU, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE WAY THIS HAS SHAKEN OUT SO FAR CREATES A LATE PREPRIMARY OPENING FOR CAMPBELL TO SAY TO EVERYONE WHO IS GOING TO BE VOTING IN BOSS BE TO, HEY, JUST A REMINDER, I'M THE ONE IN THIS RACE WHO HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT REFORMING THE BOSTON POLICE THE LONGEST, THE MOST COMPREHENSIVELY, SO REALLY YOU SHOULD GIVE ME ANOTHER LOOK BEFORE YOU DECIDE WHO YOU ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR, IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HER?

>> YOU KNOW, IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY.

I MEAN IT'S ALSO A VERY MUCH A CHANGED POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT NOW THAN IT WAS I THINK EVEN WHEN SHE WAS MAKING THESE RECOMMENDATIONSES.

YOU KNOW, WITH THE GEORGE FLOYD PROTESTS AND EVERYTHING THAT SORT OF CONTRIBUTED TO THIS ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOW ASKING QUESTIONS WHY AREN'T COPS BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, IT, THERE IS IS AN OPPORTUNITY IT IS IS ALSO BIGGER THAN CAMPBELL VERSUS JANEY RIGHT NOW.

ONE THING I WANT TO DO BEFORE WE WRAP UP.

WE JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT.

THE REPORT, I HAVE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT WHAT IT DIDN'T INCLUDE, BUT IT DID MAKE SOME SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT CHANGES THAT SHOULD BE MADE IN THE WAY THE BPD OPERATES.

I WOULD LOVE TO TOUCH ON A COUPLE OF THOSE BEFORE WE WRAP UP HERE.

SARAYA LET'S START WITH YOU IF THAT IS OKAY.

WHAT ARE MAYBE ONE OR TWO BIG SUGGESTIONS THE REPORT DID CONTAIN?

>> SURE.

SO I THINK THE TWO BIG ONES THAT WON'T BE UP TO THE WILL OF THE COUNCIL WHICH WE KNOW HAS HAD ITS STRUGGLES WITH THINGS AND SHE ASCENDED TO THE ACTING MAYOR'S OFFICE BUT THINGS THAT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT COULD IMPLEMENT IMMEDIATELY ARE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIVING A CREDIBLE COMPLAINT, THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION SHOULD BEGIN AN INVESTIGATION.

AND THEN SECONDLY THAT THE BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER DRAFT WHAT IS CALLED A DISCIPLINE MATRIX, BASICALLY A CHART THAT OUTLINES THE STEPS OF DISCIPLINE THAT WOULD HAPPEN FOR SPECIFIC OFFENSES.

AND THAT HE PRESENT THAT TO THE NEXT ARM OF THE OPAD OFFICE THAT IS TBING TO BE CRAFTED.

THE CIVILIAN REVIEW PORED.

>> AND I THINK THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WHAT ANDREA CAMPBELL WAS IN PARTICULAR REFERRING TO.

I THINK SHE PROPOSED THAT DISCIPLINARY MATRIX IDEA WHEN SHE FIRST WROTE THIS LEGISLATION, AM I RIGHT.

>> IT WAS PROPOSED.

>> AND IT ENDED UP NOT MAKING IT.

>> ANY OTHER BIG RECOMMENDATIONS WE SHOULD HIGHLIGHT BEFORE WE END.

>> I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THAT 48 HOUR AFTER A CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AGAINST A POLICE OFFICER, THEY HAVE TO START AN INVESTIGATION, ARE THE REASON, THAT WAS IN THE ST. CLAIRE COMMISSION REPORT THAT WAS ALSO A RECOMMENDATION BACK IN 1992.

SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE COMING FULL CIRCLE HERE.

>> AND JUST TO UNDERSCORE, THAT IS WHAT, 1992, HAVE I TO COUNT ON MY FINGERS, WE'RE TALKING 30 YEARS AGO THESE IDEAS HAVE BEEN KICKING AROUND.

IS WE HAVE SOMETIME FOR ONE MORE CLOSING QUESTION.

HOW LIKELY IS IT DO YOU YOU THINK THAT THESE THINGS WILL IN FACT BECOME REALITY BECAUSE IT'S VERY EASY TO THROW OUT BIG IDEAS AT ALL LEVELS OF TBOFT WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS.

AND THEN THE IMPLEMENTATION IS THE TRICKY PART AS YOU JUST SAID.

SARAWRA DO YOU THINK THESE THINGS WILL COME TO PASS.

>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

IF YOU TALK TO THE MAYOR'S OFFICE I BELIEVE THE SENSE THERE IS THAT THERE IS WILL THIS TIME AROUND TO IMPLEMENT THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK, LAST WORD TO YOU FOR REAL.

>> WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT PLACE THAN WE WERE 29 YEARS AGO.

YOU KNOW, THE CITY IS A LOT MORE DIE VERSION-- DIVERSE, THE ELECTORAL, PEOPLE HOLDING OFFICE ARE A LOT MORE DIVERSE, CITY COUNCIL, MAJORITY PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AND WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE A BLACK MAYOR OR A MAYOR OF COLOR COME THE FALL.

SO YOU KNOW, I DO THINK THERE IS A MUCH WIDER OPENING FOR CHANGE NOW THAN THERE WAS IN 1992.

>> Reilly: WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

YAWU MILLER AND SARAYA WINTERSMITH, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> APPRECIATE APPROXIMATE.

>> >> Reilly: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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