>> WELCOME BACK, WRITE-IN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR JAMES CRAIG JOINS THE CONVERSATION.

WHAT DID WE LEARN?

JIM KIERTZNER ZOE CLARK-PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART MY MARTENING WAYMYER A FULL SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION AGENCY PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATIONS DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY ENGAGEMENT.

AND NOW, THIS ADDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKEWBICK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH WELCOME BACK TO OFF THE RECORD.

NICE TO HAVE YOU ON BOARD WITH CHIEF OF DETROIT POLICE.

DID YOU WATCH THE DEBATE FROM GRAND RAP IDS AND THE TAKE AWAY Y WAS?

>> TURNING ON EACH OTHER.

THE CANDIDATES.

THERE WAS TALK ABOUT WHO THEY ALL LIKE THEIR OPPONENT TO BE IN NOVEMBER.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME ON STAGE WERE GOING AFTER ONE ANOTHER.

>> WHY?

>> BECAUSE WE ARE 25 DAYS AWAY FROM THE PRIMARY AND THESE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE LIKE WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE.

THEY HAVEN'T RUN FOR OFFICE BEFORE AND THEY HAVE TO FIGURE A WAY TO BREAK THROUGH.

>> IT IS A MISHMASHF UNCNNS AND THINK WHY WE SAW A LITTLE MORE IT ENGAGEMENT.

BY TRADITIONAL STOONDARDSERS IT WANT THAT NASTY OR THAT AGGRESSIVE.

THIS IS A SUCH A-I WANT TO SAY LIFELESS CAMPAIGN BECAUSE CANDIDATES THROWN OFF BALLOT AND NO ONE KNOWS WHO THEY ARE.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO DECLARE WHO WON AND VERY DIFFICULT TO TRY TO GET IN THE HEADS OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS TO FIGURE WHO THE FOLKS ARE.

IF YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE WHO IS A LITTLE MORE POLISHED, LITTLE SAFER OFFERED SOMETHING FOR THOSE FOLKS.

REPUBLICANS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO GO TO BATTLE AND WAR.

I CAN'T BELIEVE WE ARE JUST WEEKS AWAY FROM THIS PRIMARY ELECTION AND IT FEELS THERE IS A CHANCE SOMEBODY COULD WIN THIS WITH 30 PERCENT OF THE VOTE.

>> YOU HAVE KELLY, SADANO WITH NEW NOMENCLAICHER.

NOT TRUMP ENOUGH.

THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE- THAT HAVE THEIR LANE.

THEY BELIEVE THAT IS THERE FORMULA FOR VICTORY.

>> EXACTLY THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CONVENTION AND ARE THIS PRIMARY IS THAT THE 800 POUND GUERILLA WAS ENDORSING, DONALD TRUMP.

BECAUSE THIS FEELS LIKE A MISH-MASH IS THERE OXYGEN FOR THE CANDIDATES, IS HE GOING TO STEP IN BEFORE AUGUST 2 OR NOT AND TO ZACK POINT, KEVINY TALKS HOW HE IS THE DONALD TRUMP AND BUSINESS MAN COMING UP AND-IT IS THIS SORT OF PLAYING FOOTSY BUT VERY CLEAR HE HAS NOT COME OUT AND ENDORSED ANY OF THESE CANDIDATES.

>> LET'S BE CLEAR.

THE PREVIOUS DEBATES THERE WAS NO DELINEATION WHO IS ON FIRST.

THIS WAS ABOUT IT TWO GENTLEMAN ON THE FAR ROITHD TAKING ON ONE OF THE FRONT RUNNERS AND BASICALLY THE CODE IS, YOU ARE A ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE WHICH IS YOU'RE NOT ONE OF US.

>> EXACTLY.

>> NOT TRUMP ENOUGH.

>> NOT TRUMP ENOUGH.

I'M SURPRISED THEY DIDN'T CONNECT ALL THE DOTS BUT THAT IS WHAT THE MESSAGE WAS.

>> NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, I THINK THE REASONING THEY DON'T CONNECT ALL THE DOTS CLEARLY IS THEY DON'T WANT TO ALIENATE THE ESTABLISHED REPUBLICANS.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY GIVE A HOOT.

T >> DONT THEY NEED THEM IN THE FALL?

>> FIRST THINGS FIRST.

GETTING AHEAD OF YOURSELF.

>> AUGUST 1 PRIMARY.

>> IS -I WILL NOT HELP THEM OUT.

IF YOU ARE GARRET SADONO OR-WE THINK THERE WILL BE A SIZABLE AMONT OF THIRD PARTY SPENDING FOR TUDOR DIXON.

SOME HAS BEEN SPENT.

DONT HAVE THE RESOURCES.

THIS IS THEIR BEST OPPORTUNITY TO GET OUT THERE AND GET AFTER IT AND THAT'S WHY YOU SAW GART SALDON O SAYING YOU ARE THE RHINO.

YOU ARE WORKING WITH LEGISLATORS, ALL THESE THINGS TO CAST THEM AS PART AND PARCEL OF THE ESTABLISHMENT SOMEHOW.

>> TIM, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION.

>> PLEASE.

>> YOU WERE TALKING KEVIN RINKY AS BEING A CANDIDATE AND HE GOT IN THE RACE AND YOU AND I HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT A INTERESTING THREAD TRYING TO BE A MODERATE.

>> (INAUDIBLE) >> EXACTLY.

HOW THAT HAS EXTREMELY CHANGED.

WAS THAT 6 MONTHS IS-THERE IS NO TIME?

THAT CHANGED AS HIM TRYING TO PLAY THE MODERATE AND HOW QUICKLY HE HAS SHIFTED TO THE ROITHD RIGHT.

>> THIS IS THE FIRSS TIME MRS. DIXON IS CHALLENGED ON THE STUMP AND I THOUGHT HER INITIAL RESPONSE WAS A LITTLE WEAK.

SHE FINALLY GOT AROUND AT THE END OF THE THING WHERE SHE SAYS THIS IS A PURPAL STATES BOYS AND GIRLS.

SETTING UP FOR A PIVOT I NEED ESTABLISHED PEOPLE SO GOT AROUND TO THE RIGHT ANSWER BUT INITIALLY I THINK SHE WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD.

>> I THINK SHE WAS TOO AND AGREE.

SHE CAME OFF WEAK AT THE BEGINNING AND WANT PREPARING FOR THE ATTACK.

>> SHE USED UP THE 3 REBUTTALS-THAT IS THE FORMAT.

>> SHE WAS CAUGHT OFF-GUARD.

SHE WASN'T TOTALLY PREPARE FRD THE ARE DEBATE IN THAT CONTEXT BUT I THINK SHE ALSO ESTABLISHED HERSELF AS THE ESTABLISHMENT CANG CANDIDATE AND SHE IS OKAY AND COMFORT AND EXHIBITED THAT.

>> SHE CAN BE THE EXTREME FAR RIGHT FLITS THE VOTE.

>> THAT IS THE PROBLEM THEY NEED ONE OR THE OTHER NOT TO MAKE THE BALLOT.

IT IS SNRT ESTING YOU GOT CANDIDATES THAT HAVE EVOLVED SINCE THEY GOT IN, ZOE IS 100 PERCENT RIGHT.

I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH KEVIN RINKY IS RIGHT.

RIDE THE RIGHT LANE VANISHED THERE IS 5 CANDIDATES OEN THE BALLOT AND TACKED RIGHT.

THERE IS NO PATH TO THE MIDDLE AND WIN THE PRIMARY THIS TIME UNLIKE 2010.

TUDOR DIXON EVOLVED FROM THE RIGHT NOW THE ESTABLISHMENT FAVORITE.

SADONA AND KELLY HAVE NOT CHANGED AND CONTINUING TO POUND AWAY AT THE RED MEAT ISSUES.

>> I STILL THINK ESTABLISHMENT IS A 4 LETTER WORD IN THIS PRIMARY WITH A LOT OF VOTERS.

>> THE DIXON NOW HAS THE ENDORSEMENT OF JOHN INGLER.

>> WHICH IS A DOUBLE EDGE SWORD IS IT SNOT NOT?

>> OF COURSE.

>> WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

>> I ASKED YOU FIRST.

>> THIS IS THE EXACT ISSUE YOU HAVE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHICH IS HOW DO DWROU STRADDLE TRYING TO GET THE MONEY AND INFRASTRUCTURE FROM THE ESTABLISHMENT (INAUDIBLE) IT IS REALLY ROUGH TO DO AND SOME POINT WE NEED TO SEE IS THERE A BREAKING POINT, IS THERE A SPLIT AND I THINK WE ARE NOT AT THAT BOILING POINT YET.

WE JUST BEEN ON THIS CONSTANTS SIMMER GETTING HIGHER AND HIGHER BUT HAS NOT BOILED OVER AND TRUMP WAS THE INDICATION-THINK ABOUT THE REPORT THAT CAME OUT POST ROMNY LOSING IN 2012.

THISS WAS THE CANDIDATE WE NEED AND THEN DONALD TRUMP WONG AND TFS NOT THE CANDIDATE THE REPUBLICAN-DONALD TRUMP ONE AND IT WAS LIKE WAIT A SECOND, IS THIS THE WAY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTINUES TO GRAPPLE WITH THAT FACT.

>> THE ESTABLISHMENT IN THIS TOWN WE HAVE KNOWN FOR YEARS ARE NOT ENDORSING IN THE RAISE.

HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT?

HAS RICK SNYDERS ANYTHING WHO THE CANDIDATE IS?

>> NO, BUT WOULD ANY OF THE 5 CANDIDATES ASK FOR HIS ENDORSEMENT?

>> (INAUDIBLE) >> LET ME PICK OUT PAUL-JOE (INAUDIBLE) >> I MEAN, THESE ARE PEOPLE I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR BUT NOT ACTIVE PLAYERS IN MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN-HOW ARE THEY GETTING THE MESSAGE OUT?

GARRET SOLDANO HAS SUPPORTERS OUT THERE.

>> (INAUDIBLE) >> YOU GOT TO KEEP GROWING THE TENT TO WIN A PRIMARILY STATE-WIDE PRIMARY.

IT IS NOT A STATE CONVENTION.

RINKY HAS HIS OWN MONEY TO SPEND AND THINK (INAUDIBLE) IT IS JUST UNCLEAR RIGHT NOW EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE RINKY AND DIXON ARE IN THE ESTABLISHMENT REALM, IF THAT IS ENOUGH OF A PROBLEM TO OVER COME THE HUGE RESOURCE THEY APPEAR TO HAVE.

>> APOLOGY BUT SELF-PROMOTION, NEXT WEEK IN THE CHAIRS WILL BE 4 CANDIDATE RUNNING FOR CHAIRS.

>> THERE IS ONLY 3 CHAIRS.

>> WE'LL BUYER ARE ONE.

>> I LIKE THE FORMAT.

>> THE FORMAT IS NO RULES SAPT THE ONE MINUTE TIME LIMIT.

>> ISN'T THAT THE KEY?

>> YOU ALL KNOW IT ISN'T THE FIRST QUESTION YOU WANT TO ASK, IT IS SECOND AND THIRD TO PEEL BACK THE ONION.

>> WHAT HAPPENS MONDAY?

>> ON MONDAY FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING THEIR TAILS OFF TO BE ABLE TO TURN IN SIGNATURES TO GET QUESTIONS ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT, THESE WOULD BE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES NEED TO TURN IN SIGNATURES MONDAY BY 5 O'CLOCK.

>> LOTS OF NAMES.

>> THERE ARE TWO WE ARE KEEPING A EYE ON, ONE IS PROMOTE THE VOTE FOR VOTING WRITES IN THE CONSTITUTION AND THE OTHER IS REPRODUCTIVE-INSHINE AORTION INTO THE STATE CONSTITUTION AND THIS WEEK THERE WAS A-BY THE COCHAIR OF REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM FOR ALL SHE SAID THE GROUP HAS MORE THEN 800 THOUSAND SIGNATURES WHICH IS-IF THAT IS TRUE THAT IS HISTORIC NUMBER IN MICHIGAN POLITICS.

>> NOBODY HAS COME CLOSE TO THAT.

>> IT WOULD SHATTER THE RECORD WHICH IS MORE THEN 600 THOUSAND SIGNATURES.

SHOULD NOTE THE PREVIOUS RECORD DID NOT PATSS.

IT ISN'T A APPLE TO APPLE COMPARISON BUT NOT NECESSARILY A GUARANTEE BUT IT SHOWS THE ENORMOUS ENERGY UNLEASHED SURROUNDING ABORTION FOLLOWING THE DOBBS DECISION AND MICHIGAN HAS ON THE BOOKS MAKING IT A FELONY TO PERFORM AN ABORTION.

>> POLITICIANS HATE AND REPORTERS LOVE, SAY OUR STATE SUPREME COURT DECIDES THE 1931 LAW IS NULL AND VOID AND ABORTION IS LEGAL IN MICHIGAN, IS THAT A PIN IN THE BALLOON?

>> THAT IS A DECISION EVERYBODY IS WAITING-(INAUDIBLE) >> DOES IT TAKE SOME OF THE AIR OUT OF THIS- >> LET ME ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION, WHY WOULD THEY RULE IF IT IS ON THE BALLOT BEFORE NOVEMBER?

IF THIS IS ON THE BALLOT WHY WOULD THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT WANT TO GO ON RECORD WITH THIS?

WAIT TO NOVEMBER 8.

>> THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN PLEADING FROM SUPREME COURT WITH MAJORITY OF JUSTICE BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND SHE IS GETTING STATIC.

THEY DO NOT APPEAR INTERESTED RUSHING THE DECISION.

I THINK ZOE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THEY COULD SIT ON THIS, WHICH THEY CAN UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION AND THEN DECIDE WHAT TO DO.

YOU ARE RIGHT, IF THEY WERE TO ISSUE A RULING THAT THE MICHIGAN CONSTITUTION DOES PROTECT THE LEGAL RIGHT TO ABORTION IT MIGHT LET AIR OUT BUT IF YOU ARE ON THE SIDE THAT THING ABORTION SHOULD BE LEGAL WATCH THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURN A PREVIOUS PRECEDENT.

IT IS 4-3 DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY AND THAT COULD CHANGE- >> LET'S CALL IN THE FORMER CHIEF JAMES CRAIG.

HOW ARE YOU DOINGX NICE TO HAVE YOU ON BOARD?

>> GREAT.

THANKS HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

>> CUT TO CHASE, WHAT ARE CHANCES BEING A SUCCESSFUL WRITE IN CANDIDATE, SOME SAY 0 AND NONE.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

>> I WON'T SAY 0 AND NONE.

THIS IS UP HP HILL BATTLE AND ACKNOWLEDGE IT TAKES SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OFFUNDING TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

ONE OF IMOO RUNGING MATES PERRY JOHNSON THOUGHT IT WOULD COST $22 MILLION.

REALISTICALLY FOR ME, NAME, ID DON'T THINK IT WOULD COST THAT MUCH, 2 OR 3 BUT WE ARE WAY DOWN THE TRACK NOW AND CERTAINLY IT IS NO SECRET WHEN I WAS TAKEN OFF THE BALLOT IT PUT A DAMPER ONFUNDING.

AS I HAVE COME TO LEARN MONEY KEEPS THE ENGINE RUNNING.

RINKY FOR EXAMPLE IS A SELF--FUNDED CANDIDATE BUT THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN I DON'T NEED TO TELL YOU TIM, I WAS LEADING SUBSTANTIALLY OVER ALL THE OTHER GOP CANDIDATES.

DIDN'T RUN ONE COMMERCIAL AND A LOT OF THAT AS YOU KNOW HAD TO DO WITH NAME ID AND ALSO THE MESSAGE.

THE MOMENTUM CAME BEHIND THE MESSAGE AND WHAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR.

ONE THING THAT MAKES ME A STAND-OUT AND I NEVER GOT EXCITED ABOUT THE POSE, BUT A COUPLE CERTAINLY GOT MY ATTENTION AND INDICATED BY A GUEST ON THE SHOW, MICHIGAN REALLY IS A PURPLE STATE BUT WHEN A COUPLE POLLS CAME BACK, THE INDEPENDENT IN COMPARING ME TO GOVERNOR WHITMER, TWO SHOWED-ONE SAID I WAS 18 PERCENT OR 17 PERCENT AHEAD, ANOTHER SHOWED ME 8 PERCENT.

THAT SAYS A LOT.

IT REALLY DOES SAY A LOT.

>> CHIEF, IS IT 50/5 OCHANCE OR LESS THAN THAT, SIR?

>> I DONT WANT TO SPECULATE: I WISH I COULD DO MY OWN POLL.

PEOPLE APPROACH ME AND SAY WE ARE WRITING YOU IN CHIEF, WE SUPPORT YOU AND CANDIDATELY SOME HAVE BEEN DEMOCRATS THAT APPROACH ME.

WHETHER OR THAT HAPPENS THAT WOULD BE SEEN.

AS YOU KNOW HOW THE FIRST ATTACK CAME FROM RUNNING MATE (INAUDIBLE) REPUBLICENING AND THE NEXT DAY A DEMOCRAT.

THE OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES DONT WANT ME IN IT, STILL DON'T WANT ME IN IT AND I GET CALLS NOW RECENTLY AS YER YESTERDAY AND WON'T NAME THE CANDIDATE BUT WANTS ME TO BACK OFF AND SUPPORT THEIR CAN- >> WHAT DID YOU TELL MR. RINKY?

[LAUGHTER] >> YOU ARE PRETTY GOOD, TIM.

I TOLD HIM I'M NOT INTERESTED AND STILL A CANDIDATE AND SAID I WOULD ONT BE INTERESTING SUPPORTING A CANDIDATE AFTER THE PRIMARY IF I'M NOT THAT ONE.

IF I'M NOT THE NOMINEE THEN OF COURSE I WANT TO SUPPORT THE RIGHT CANDIDATE, BUT I TELL YOU AND YOU SHARED IT, THESE CANDIDATES JUST GOING TO BE CANDIDATE ARE LACK LUSTER, THERE IS NOTHING THERE AND I KNOW THAT AND FRANKLY I ALSO KNOW I DON'T THINK-GOVERNOR WHITMER'S NUMBERS ARE NOT NECESSARILY UNDER WATER SHE IS A INCUMBENT BUT I WAS THE CANDIDATE MOST LIKELY TO UNSEAT THE GOVERNOR AND I RECOGNIZE SHE IS INCUMBENT AND INCUMBENT HASN'T BEEN TAKEN OUT IN 30 YEARS.

>> WE GOT A LOT OF GROUND TO GO.

ZOE YOU WANT TO JUMP IN?

>> CHIEF, OF THE 5 CANDIDATES ON THE BALLOT, CAN ANY BEACH GRECHEN WHITMER IN NRFB?

>> IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, WHAUTI SEE RIGHT NOW, NEGATIVE.

I THINK RINKY DOES BRING A CERTAIN SKILLSET.

I THINK THAT TUDOR IS NICE.

SHE HAS INSIGHTS AND MOM OF 4.

THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY QUALIFY HER TO LEAD THE STATE AS CEO.

DONALD STARTED A YEAR IN THE CAMPAIGN, HE NOT NOTORIETY AND GAINED TRACTION BUT NOT A LOT SO STUCK IN A PLACE.

RYAN KELLY GETS ARRESTED AND GETS A SEMPATHY VOTE.

I WAS THE PRESUMPTION NOMINEE UP TILL TAKEN OFF THE BALLOT AND IT WAS FOR A REASON.

AGAIN, I STILL BELIEVE THAT IF I'M THE NOMINEE, I'M THE BEST CANDIDATE THAT CAN UNSEAT THE INCUMBENT.

>> CHIEF YOU HINTED AT SOMETHING YOU SAID WHEN YOU SAID TAKEN OFF THE BALLOT FOR A REASON.

YOU THINK THIS WAS SABOTAGE BUT DON'T YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENINGS IN THE PETITIONS?

YOU WERE IN THE RACE LAST SUMMER AND COULD HAVE TURNED IN PETITIONS EARLIER AND YOU HAVE TO SIGN OFF ON THE PETITIONS TURNED IN?

>> YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT AND BELIEVE IN ACCOUNTABILITY.

IF I HAD TO DO THINGS ALL OVER AGAIN I WOULD DO IT DIFFERENTLY.

CERTAINLY IF I HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN, I WOULD HIRE DIFFERENT FOLKS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY COMING INTO THIS WORLD WITH NO EXPERIENCE AS A POLITICIAN, PUBLIC SERVANT YES, BUT THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT.

I REMEMBER TALKING SAYING WHAT IS UP WITH THE PETITIONS AND SHOULD WE GET THE PETITIONS AND REASSURED NOT ONCE BUT A NUMBER OF TIMES, DONT WORRY, IT IS NOT THAT BIG A DEAL.

IT IS A BIG DEAL.

LOOKING BACK IT IS A BIG DEAL.

OF COURSE KNOWING WHAT I NOW KNOW I WOULD HAVE DONE THINGS A LOT DIFFERENTLY.

I DIDN'T SEE IT COMING, I JUST DIDN'T, BUT I THINK IT WAS SABOTAGE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE IT WAS SABOTAGE.

WE GET PETITIONS TURNED IN A DAY BEFORE THE DEADLINE AND WITHIN DAYS OF THAT THE REPUBLICAN FIRES THE FIRST ATTACK LIKE THEY KNEW!

AND THEN THE DEMOCRATS.

SO, HOW AND WHY?

I HOPE WE FILED A CIVIL LAWSUIT AGAINST TWO PETITION COMPANIES.

AS YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE PETITION COMPANIES THE PRINCIPAL IN THE COMPANY WAS CONVICTED IN 2011 IN STATE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE SAME THING, AND SO IT IS UNFORTUNATE, I'M LOOKING AHEAD, CAN'T CHANGE WHAT HAPPENED AND JUST HOPING THAT PEOPLE WILL SEE IT FOR WHAT IT AND THEY WILL WRITE MY NAME.

I MADE A LITTLE JOKE WHEN I ANNOUNCED THE WRITE IN CANDIDACY, I SAID WELL, I WNDER WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE FOR PUTTING MY NAME ON THE BALLOT.

WOULD CHIEF WORK, OR CHIEF CRAIG WORK OR BLACK MAN WORK?

I'M THE ONLY BLACK MAN.

IT IS FUNNY BUT I DONT THINK SECRETARY OF STATE WILL GIVE MUCH LEEWAY.

>> CHIEF, LET ME ASK YOU THIS BECAUSE YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CIVIL LAUT LAWSUIT AND I PULLED IT AND READ IT.

YOU WILL TRY TO HOLD THESE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE BUT HOW DID YOU NOT VET WHO THESE CONTRACTORS AND SUBCONTRACTORS WERE?

I TALKED TO A ESTABLISHED REPUBLICAN IN METRO DETROIT WHO SAID THIS WAS JUST SLOPPY.

>> IT WAS SLOPPY.

LOOK, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT WASN'T.

I HIRED A PROFESSIONAL FIRM THAT I HAD A GREAT DEAL OF CONFIDENCE.

THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PETITION COMPANY.

I WAS LEFT WITH THE IMPRESSION IT WAS THAT COMPANY KWR THAT COMPANY ALONE THAT WOULD GET OUT AND GET THE PETITIONS.

I USED TO SEE THESE CIRCULATORS AND AT A NUMBER OF EVENTS.

GREAT PEOPLE AND WORK FOR THE FIRM BUT THERE WAS A UNILATERAL DECISION FOR THE COMPANY TO REACH OUT AND SUBCONTRACT WITH ANOTHER FIRM AND AS YOU KNOW, THAT FIRM SUBCONTRACTED OUT TO THE DIRTY DOERS SO I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

SHOULD I HAVE KNOWN?

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE BUT I PUT CONFIDENCE IN FOLKS RUNNING THE CAMPAIGN.

THERE ARE TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHTS RUNGING A CAMPAIGN AND THIS IS WHERE THE INITIAL CONSULTANT AND I SAW THE WORLD VERY DIFFERENT.

FIRST OF ALL, HE WANTED TO PUT ME IN A BOX AND SAY THINGS THAT FRANKLY DID NOT REPRESENT WHO I AM.

>> LIKE WHAT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE THERE WAS A COMMENT I MADE MY VERY FIRST SPEECH REFERRING TO THE INCUMBENT AND IT WASN'T MINUTE IN A DUROG TORY WAY AS A QUEEN.

IN SOME CIRCLES USING THAT CHARACTERIZATION, JUST QUEEN ISN'T PROPER AND I DIDN'T LIKE IT AND IT WAS A VERY TRUSTED FEMALE MEMBER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WE HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT AND I AGREED WITH HER.

IT WAS THAT POINT I BEGAN TO MAKE A HARD RIGHT TURN.

THEY DIDN'T ME WANT TO RESPOND TIME IN THE URBAN AREAS BECAUSE THEY SAID THERE IS NO VALUE ADD #D TO THAT.

I SAID IT IS VALUE ADDED IN MY VIEW BECAUSE I'M RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR ING THE ENTIRE STATE.

I HAVE TO GET THROUGH A PRIMARY.

DO I DISAPPEAR FROM THE URBAN AREA FOR A YEAR, POP OUT FOR TWO MONTHS SAY FOLKS I'M HERE, I WANT YOUR SUPPORT.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY FOR ME.

WHAT I ALSO LEARNED, A LOT IS COMENING COMMON SENSH.

>> QUHOO WAS TRYING TO SABOTAGE YOU?

>> THAT IS A BIG QUESTION, A GOOD QUESTION AND I'M HOPING THAT EITHER THROUGH THE CIVIL SUIT AND/OR THROUGH THE AG CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION THAT THAT WILL BE REVEALED.

>> WHO IS YOUR PERSON OF INTEREST?

>> NO, I DONT HAVE A PERSON OF INTEREST AND I DON'T WANT TO SPECULATE, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND- >> I WANT YOU TO SPECULATE CHIEF.

>> YOU ARE IN POLITICS BABY.

>> DON'T GO AWAY, WE WILL DO CLOSED CREDIT AND BE BACK WITH THE CHIEF.

COME BACK TO - >> LEARN MORE AT MARTINWAYMYER.COM.

MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION CONTRIBUTE TO THE PRODUCTION COST OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.