>> BRAUDE: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," FROM THE BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY: WITH MONEY STRETCHING THINNER THAN EVER, AS INFLATION HITS YET ANOTHER 40-YEAR HIGH, SHOULD WE HAVE SEEN THIS COMING?

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, DO WE KNOW THE PATH OUT?

IS THERE A PATH OUT?

FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY LARRY SUMMERS JOINS ME ON THAT.

THEN LATER, MSNBC ANCHOR KATY TUR JOINS ME ON HER NEW MEMOIR, ABOUT GROWING UP AS THE CHILD OF TWO FEARLESS JOURNALISTS, FEAR IN HER CHILDHOOD HOME, AND HOW SHE SAYS HER FATHER PREPARED HER FOR DEALING WITH DONALD TRUMP.

>> BRAUDE: IT'S NOT REALLY NEWS TO ANYONE THAT INFLATION IS HITTING HARD.

BUT, WE LEARNED ON FRIDAY THAT MAY MARKED YET ANOTHER DISMAL RECORD, WITH CONSUMER PRICES UP 8.6% COMPARED WITH LAST YEAR, THE BIGGEST INCREASE IN 40 YEARS.

ECONOMISTS SAY THE REASONS RUN THE GAMUT, FROM RUSSIA'S ONGOING INVASION OF UKRAINE, TO AN AMERICAN PUBLIC EAGER TO TRAVEL AND SPEND AFTER TWO YEARS OF LOCK-DOWN.

STILL, SPEAKING TODAY AT THE A.F.L.-C.I.O.

UNION CONVENTION IN PHILADELPHIA, JOE BIDEN DELIVERED A MESSAGE OF OPTIMISM ABOUT OUR COLLECTIVE ECONOMIC FUTURES.

>> GAS IS UP, AND FOOD IS UP, WHICH WE'RE GOING TO GET DOWN COME HELL OR HIGH WATER.

THIS IS AMERICA.

WE CAN DO ANY DAMN THING WE PUT OUR MINDS TO.

GUESS WHAT?

WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO THE FALSE PROMISES OF A TRICKLE-DOWN ECONOMICS.

WE'RE GOING FORWARD.

[APPLAUSE] WE'RE GOING FORWARD.

>> BRAUDE: AT LEAST ONE MAN WARNED WELL OVER A YEAR AGO THAT WE COULD BE HEADED DOWN THIS INFLATION PATH.

THAT WOULD BE FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY LARRY SUMMERS, WHO JOINS ME NOW.

SECRETARY SUMMERS, GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> VERY NICE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Braude: HISTORICALLY HIGH INFLATION, RECESSION MAY BE IN THE OFFING.

DOES THE DISFUNCTION AND DECEIT IN WASHINGTON CONTRIBUTE TO THIS, OR IS IT JUST AN UNFORTUNATE SIDESHOW?

>> I DON'T THINK WASHINGTON HAS COVERED ITSELF WITH GLORY.

IT'S MADE A SET OF POLICY ERRORS IN 2021, PARTICULARLY AT THE FED, THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THIS HIGH RATE OF INFLATION.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF LEGISLATION THAT WOULD BE DESIRABLE TO HELP CONTAIN INFLATION BY RAISING TAXES ON THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD TO PAY THAT HASN'T PASSED THEIR COMMON-SENSE STEPS, LIKE TAKING A MORE STRATEGIC APPROACH TO CHINA THAT WOULD HELP REDUCE PRICES.

WE COULD BE DOING MUCH BETTER IN WASHINGTON WITH BETTER RESULTS FOR HOUR ECONOMY.

AND, FRANKLY, THE SHAMBOLIC CHARACTER OF OUR DEMOCRACY IS EXEMPLIFIED BY WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY SIXTH I THINK UNDERMINES CONFIDENCE IN OUR COUNTRY AND IT'S INSTITUTIONS AND THAT CERTAINLY DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY.

>> Braude: LET'S SPEAK TO THE GUY WHO WON THE ELECTION, GOING BACK TO PHILADELPHIA, WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, DUGHTING HE HAD LIMITED ABOUT TO DEAL WITH THESE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS STAND THE G.O.P.

WAS STANDING IN THE WAY.

HERE'S A LITTLE MORE OF WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

>> THE PROBLEM IS, REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO STOP MY PLANS TO BRING DOWN COSTS ON ORDINARY FAMILIES.

THAT'S WHY MY PLAN IS NOT FINISHED, AND WHY THE RESULTS AREN'T FINISHED, EITHER.

JOBS ARE BACK, BUT PRICES ARE STILL TOO HIGH.

COVID IS DOWN, BUT GAS PRICES ARE UP.

OUR WORK ISN'T DONE.

>> Braude: HE ALSO SAYS, AND I'M SURE YOU HEARD HIM SAY THIS, SECRETARY SUMMERS, IS INFLATION IS A GLOBAL PROBLEM, IT'S PUTIN'S INFLATION.

IS HE ON POINT ON ALL THESE CRITICISMS AND ANALYSES?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO BLAME ALL THE INFLATION ON PUTIN.

WE HAD INFLATION, AND IT WAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM WELL BEFORE PRESIDENT PUTIN MOVED INTO UKRAINE, THOUGH THAT CERTAINLY MADE IT A GOOD DEAL WORSE.

THE CONTEXT OF THE AMERICAN SITUATION AND THE CONTEXT OF THE EUROPEAN SITUATION IS QUITE DIFFERENT.

NATURAL GAS IS FOUR TIMES AS EXPENSIVE IN EUROPE AS IT IS HERE.

THY HAVE TO IMPORT ALL THEIR FUELS, WE DON'T.

SO TO SAY THAT THEY'VE GOT INFLATION LIKE OURS DOESN'T REALLY EXEMPT US FROM RESPONSIBILITY.

BUT I DO THINK THE PRESIDENT IS RIGHT, THAT THERE HAS BEEN VERY SUBSTANTIAL CONSTRUCTIONISM IN THE CONGRESS AND THAT HAS MADE IT HARDER TO MOVE THE COUNTRY FORWARD.

>> Braude: MAYBE THE OBSTRUCTION PRECLUDES YOU FROM ANSWERING THIS QUESTION, BUT HOW LONG IS INFLATION WITH US?

HOW LONG UNTIL GAS PRICES ARE NO BELONGER FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT DOLLARS A GALLON?

>> GAS PRICES SPECIFICALLY DOES DEPEND ON PRESIDENT PUTIN, IT DEPENDS A LOT ON GEOPOLITICS, IT'S HARD TO PREDICT, BUT I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF WE HAD A RETURN TO NORMAL IN THE NEXT YEAR.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY ELEVATED PRICES, AND I THINK, WITH RESPECT TO INFLATION, IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE WITH US FOR A WHILE.

THERE ARE NO MIRACLE CURES OR SILVER BULLETS, MONETARY POLICY, WHICH WHAT THE FED IS DOING BELATEDLY DOES WORK WITH RESPECT TO INFLATION, BUT IT TAKES QUITE A WHILE.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, YOU SORT OF PLAYED NOSTRADAMUS, I WOULD ARGUE, IN A FEBRUARY PIECE YOU WROTE IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" LAST YEAR.

LET ME READ A PIECE OF IT.

"PRESIDENT BIDEN'S $1.9 TRILLION COVID-19 RELIEF PLAN, ADDED TO THE STIMULUS MEASURE, WOULD REPRESENT THE BOLDEST ACT OF MACRO-ECONOMIC STABILIZATION POLICY IN U.S. HISTORY.

ITS AMBITION, ITS REJECTION OF AUSTERITY ORTHODOXY, AND ITS COMMITMENT TO REDUCING ECONOMIC INEQUALITY ARE ALL ADMIRABLE.

THERE IS A CHANCE THAT MACROECONOMIC STIMULUS ON A SCALE CLOSER TO WORLD WAR II LEVELS THAN NORMAL RECESSION LEVELS WILL SET OFF INFLATIONAR PRESSURES OF A KIND WE HAVE NOT SEEN IN A GENERATION."

YOU'RE A PRETTY SMART GUY, LARRY SUMMERS.

YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY SMART GUY.

WHY WERE SO MANY PEOPLE SO WRONG ABOUT INFLATION BEING ON THE HORIZON?

>> I DON'T FULLY KNOW.

IT DID SEEM RELATIVELY CLEAR TO ME.

I THINK PART OF IT IS THAT, AFTER 40 YEARS, WHEN INFLATION WAS LOW AND DIDN'T VARY MUCH, PEOPLE THOUGHT INFLATION WAS ONE OF THE CONSTANTS AND YOU COULDN'T PUSH IT WAY UP, AND, SO, THEY DECIDED TO PUSH THEIR LUCK.

IT'S A LITTLE LIKE A GUY WHO'S HAD A HEART ATTACK, WHO'S VERY CAREFUL, AND THEN AFTER SEVERAL DECADES DECIDES HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SO CAREFUL, AND THAT'S ABOUT -- THAT'S A BIT HOW WE WERE AS A COUNTRY IS THE INFLATION TO HAVE THE 19 # -- THE INFLATION OF THE 1970s RECEDED FROM VIEW.

I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF IT.

AN IMPORTANT PART OF IT WAS THE PARTICULAR POLITICAL DYNAMICS WHICH, IN ORDER TO HOLD A CONGRESSIONAL COALITION TOGETHER, WHEN THERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE AGAINST EVERYTHING, FORCED THE OVERALL TOTAL TO AN UNREASONABLE LEVEL.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, YOU BELIEVE, WITH INFLATION SO HIGH AND UNEMPLOYMENT SO LOW, THAT RESESSION -- RECESSION IS MORE THAN LIKELY, CORRECT?

>> CORRECT.

>> Braude: FOR MOST PEOPLE WATCHING THIS SHOW, RECESSION IS JUST A WORD, IT'S AN OMINOUS WORD BUT JUST A WORD.

WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN FOR LOW AND MODERATE-INCOME PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, SHOULD THAT HAPPEN?

>> IT WOULD MEAN, INSTEAD OF HAVING AN EXTREMELY LOW LEVEL OF LAYOFFS, WE WOULD HAVE AN ABNORMALLY HIGH LEVEL OF LAYOFFS.

INSTEAD OF A SITUATION WHERE YOU CAN WALK DOWN BOYLSTON STREET AND ALMOST EVERY ESTABLISHMENT IS LOOKING TO HIRE PEOPLE, THAT MOST ESTABLISHMENTS WOULD NOT BE LOOKING TO HIRE PEOPLE.

IT WOULD MEAN, AND WE'VE ALREADY STARTED SEE SOME OF THIS, THAT, INSTEAD OF PEOPLE'S 401-Ks GOING UP EVERY YEAR, THEY'D START TO GO DOWN.

SO IT WOULD NOT MEAN THAT THE AVERAGE FAMILY HAD LOWER INCOMES, BUT -- SO IT'S A THING WE VERY MUCH WANT TO AVOID, BUT WHEN YOU SWING THE PENDULUM TOO FAR IN ONE DIRECTION, IT OFTEN SWINGS BACK HARD, AND I THINK THAT'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN ALONG WITH A LOT OF BAD LUCK.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, SECRETARY, YOU HAVE BEEN FAIRLY CRITICAL OF THE FED.

I THINK EVERYBODY WATCHING KNOWS THEY'RE MEETING TOMORROW, ALLEGEDLY GOING TO RAISE THE INTEREST RATE HALF A POINT, THREE-QUARTERS A POINT.

IF I COULD MAKE YOU FOR A SECOND CZAR NOT JUST OF THE FED BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN INFLATION AND AVOID A RECESSION?

WHAT WOULD BE AT THE TOP OF YOUR LIST?

>> I WOULD MAKE CLEAR THE FED'S DETERMINATION TO DO NECESSARY THINGS WITH RESPECT TO INFLATION, AND I'D RAISE INTEREST RATES AND SIGNAL THAT I WAS PREPARED TO DO THAT UNTIL INFLATION WENT AWAY.

I'D RAISE TAXES AND CUT PRESCRIPTION DRUG BENEFITS, BOTH OF WHICH WOULD IMPROVE THE BUDGET -- CUT PRESCRIPTION DRUG PRICES, MAINTAIN THE BENEFITS -- BOTH OF WHICH WOULD OPERATE TO REDUCE THE DEFICIT, REDUCE DEMAND, AND HOLD PRICES DOWN.

I TAKE A MORE STRATEGIC APPROACH TO CHINA, AND REDUCE TARIFFS, AND EXPRESS MY CONCERN ABOUT CHINA'S ECONOMY IN OTHER WAYS, LIKE LIMITING OUTBOUND INVESTMENT TOWARDS CHINA.

AND THOSE LOWER TARIFFS WOULD TRANCE LIT INTO MORE PURCHASING POWER FOR AMERICAN CONSUMERS.

I WOULD STEP UP OUR INVESTMENT ACROSS THE BOARD IN ENERGY.

RENEWABLES ARE ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL FOR THE FUTURE, BUT GETTING ALL THE FOSSIL FUELS WE CAN IS CRUCIAL FOR THIS MOMENT, AND, SO, I'D TAKE AN ACROSS-THE-BOARD "YES" POLICY WITH RESPECT TO ENERGY, AND I'D RECOGNIZE THAT, IN A MOMENT OF LABOR SHORTAGES WEAVING GOT -- WE'VE GOT TO FIND MORE WAYS OF LETTING LABORERS GET WORK, WHICH MEANS KIDS TAKING LEAVE THEY NEED IF THEY HAVE JOB AND ALSO MEANS SEEMING IMMIGRANTS IN LARGER SCALE THAN WE HAVE BEEN WILLING TO RECENTLY.

>> Braude: CAN I RETURN TO ONE OF THE TOPICS ON YOUR LIST.

THERE WAS A TWITTER PISSING MATCH, FOR LACK OF BETTER EXPRESSION, BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD, JEFF BEZOS, THE PRESIDENT SAYING SOMETHING LIKE -- AND I'M PARAPHRASING, YOU WANT TO BRING DOWN INFLATION?

TAX FAIRLY THE WEALTHIEST CORPORATIONS IN AMERICA.

THE RESPONSE FROM BEZOS WAS JUST THIS IS A MISDIRECTION PLAY, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

WHO'S SIDE ARE YOU ON?

>> I'M WITH THE PRESIDENT ON THAT ONE.

I HAVE BEEN CRITICAL OF PARTS OF HIS FISCAL POLICY, BUT HE'S COMPLETELY RIGHT THAT IF YOU REDUCE THE DEFICIT AND RAISE TAX REVENUE, THAT'S GOING TO REDUCE SPENDING AND DEMAND AND MEAN LESS INFLATION, AND HE'S RIGHT THAT IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO RAISE REVENUE, IT'S A BETTER IDEA TO RAISE TAXES ON JEFF BEZOS THAN IT IS TO TAX IT ON THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN YOUR STUDIO.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, BEFORING YOU -- BEFORE YOU GO, I KNOW MANY PEOPLE KNOW YOU WERE ONCE THE PRESIDENT OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY.

THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY ANNOUNCED HE'S LEAVING NEXT YEAR, LARRY BACOW.

HOW WOULD YOU RATE HIS TENURE, LARRY?

>> I WILL REMEMBER LARRY WITH GRATITUDE FOR MANY THINGS, MOST ESPECIALLY FOR HIS ENORMOUSLY THOUGHTFUL STEWARDSHIP OF THE UNIVERSITY THROUGH THE VERY DIFFICULT COVID PERIOD.

HE SERVED WELL AND WITH DISTINCTION.

>> Braude: AND LAST THINGS, LARRY SUMMERS, AND SMALL BORE LOCAL, A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED YET ANOTHER SALES TAX HOLIDAY.

VIRTUALLY EVERY STATE DOES SUCH A THING.

OURS IN MASSACHUSETTS, AUGUST 13th AND 14th.

THE PROPONENTS ARGUE THAT IT HELPS STIMULATE SPENDING, PEOPLE WILL SPEND MONEY, IT WILL HELP SMALL BUSINESSES, PEOPLE LIKE ME SEE IT AS POLITICAL GIMMICK RI-- GIMMICKRY AND NOTHING MORE.

WHO'S RIGHT ON THAT ONE SNB.

>> I'M CLOSER TO YOU THAN THE GOVERNOR.

I THINK THESE KINDS OF THINGS ARE SOCIETY OF -- SORT OF ADDICTIVE, AND ONCE YOU PUT THEM IN PLACE, PEOPLE WAIT FOR THEM, AND THEN YOU LOSE SALES TAX REVENUE, AND IT REWARDS PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR TIME SPARING SALES TAX ANNOUNCEMENTS RELATIVE TO OTHER PEOPLE P. SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PARTICULARLY GOOD IDEA.

IF THAT WAS THE MISTAKE OUR GOVERNMENT WAS MAKING, WE WOULD BE A BETTER STATE AND COUNTRY.

>> Braude: I THINK WHEN THE SECRETARY OF TREASURY IS PRETTY CLOSE TO ME, IT'S A PERFECT POINT TO END THE CONVERSATION.

SECRETARY SUMMERS, VERY GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Braude: MILLIONS KNOW KATY TUR FOR HER WORK WITH NBC AND MSNBC.

A FREQUENT TARGET OF DONALD TRUMP'S-- BOTH DURING HIS CAMPAIGN AND PRESIDENCY-- SHE'S PROVEN HER JOURNALISTIC GRIT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

BUT NOW, SHE'S OPENING UP ABOUT WHERE IT ALL BEGAN, AS THE CHILD OF TWO FEARLESS L.A.

JOURNALISTS WHO GAINED NATIONAL FAME FOR CAPTURING SOME OF THE MOST ICONIC NEWS MOMENTS OF OUR TIME, FROM THE O.J.

SIMPSON WHITE BRONCO CHASE, TO THE 1992 L.A.

RIOTS.

IT'S ALL LAID OUT IN THE NEW MEMOIR, "ROUGH DRAFT," AND, TRUST ME, IT IS ROUGH AT TIMES.

KATY TUR JOINS ME NOW, AHEAD OF A STOP AT THE BROOKLINE BOOKSMITH THIS THURSDAY.

KATY, WELCOME AND CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JIM.

IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> Braude: GREAT TO HAVE YOU.

BEFORE WE GET TO "ROUGH DRAFT," I ASSUME PEOPLE KNOW YOU WROTE THIS WONDERFUL BOOK, AN ACCOUNT OF THE 2016 TRUMP CAMPAIGN.

YOU COVERED THEM, YOU INTERVIEWED THEM, YOU WERE INSULTED BY THEM, LITTLE KATY WAS HIS DEMEANING NICKNAME FOR YOU.

YOU HAD A SPECIAL VANTAGE POINT IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF DAYS OF THE HEARINGS.

WHAT DO YOU TAKE AWAY FROM WHAT YOU HEARD?

>> I THINK IT'S REMARKABLE AND THE CASE THEY'RE LAYING OUT SO FAR IS PRETTY COMPELLING.

IT'S ALSO RIGHT OUT OF THE TRUMP PLAYBOOK, WHAT WE'VE SEEN HIM DO, SINCE WE'VE SEEN HIM IN HIS POLITICAL LIFE, WHICH IS, WHEN HE DOESN'T LIKE SOMETHING, GO OUT AND SEARCH FOR THE THING THAT AGREES WITH HIS OPINION OF ANY EVENT OR ANY SCENARIO.

AND THE COMMITTEE HAS DONE A REALLY, I THINK, COMPELLING JOB OF LAYING OUT THAT HE WAS TOLD OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT THE ELECTION WAS FAIR, THAT THERE WAS NOT FRAUD AND HE FOUND HIMSELF SEARCHING FOR ANYBODY THAT WOULD TELL HIM OTHERWISE, AND, ACCORDING TO THE TESTIMONY, IT SEEMS HE LANDED ON RUDY GIULIANI, WHO WAS INTOXICATED THAT NIGHT.

I MEAN, THAT ALONE IS A BIG DEAL, BUT THEN TO GO ON AND TRY TO LINK IT AS THEY HAVE TO A BROADER GRIFT, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- THEY'RE GOING THERE.

THEY'RE GOING THERE, JIM.

>> Braude: DO YOU THINK IVANKA IS OUT OF THE WILL BY WEEK'S END, OR -- >> OH, GOSH, I DON'T KNOW.

TO SEE HIM THROW HER UNDER THE BUS IN THAT STATEMENT, I GUESS IT WAS KIND OF SAD.

>> Braude: WELL, I HAD OTHER EMOTIONS, BUT OKAY.

MOST OF US THINK WE MAD HELICOPTER PARENTS.

YOU ACTUALLY HAD HE COLD FRONTER PARENTS.

I KNEW THEM.

I DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE YOUR PARENTS TILL I READ YOUR BOOK.

EXPLAIN TO THEM WHOO THEY WERE, WHAT THEY DID.

>> MY PARENTS STARTED A COMPANY CALLED LOS ANGELES NEWS SERVICE IN THE '80s IN LOS ANGELES, LATE '70s, ACTUALLY, AND THEY COVERED BREAKING NEWS, AT FIRST FROM THE GROUND, THEN AN AIRPLANE, AND THEN FROM AN AIRPLANE.

LOS ANGELES IS A BIG, SPRAWLING CITY, AND IN ORDER TO GET TO THE STORY WHILE IT'S STILL HAPPENING, A HELICOPTER IS WHAT YOU NEED.

SO THEY DID THAT, AND YOU PROBABLY KNOW THEM FROM THE SLOW SPEED O.J.

PURSUIT, THEY COVERED HIM FROM THE ORIGINAL BEATING TO THE L.A.

RIOTS, OR FROM ANY POLICE PURSUIT YOU SAW IN THE '80s AND '90s, THEY SHOT IT ALL.

>> Braude: I LOVE THE IMAGE YOU PAINT OF YOUR MOTHER PRACTICALLY HANGING OUT OF THE HELICOPTER TO GET THE FOOTAGE.

>> YOU CAN SEE A PHOTO OF IT RIGHT OVER THERE.

MY MOM IS HANGING OUT.

>> Braude: IT IS TRUE?

IT IS TRUE, YEAH.

>> Braude: BUT YOUR FATHER LIKED THE SPOTLIGHT.

WAS HE COMFORTABLE SHARING THAT WITH YOUR MOTHER WHO IS EVERY BIT THE PART?

>> OH, GOSH -- I THINK THAT MY MOM, SHE WAS MORE OF A WALL FLOWER AND SHE WAS SHIER, SO, FOR HER, A LOT TO HAVE THE TIME WHEN I ASKED HER ABOUT IT, SHE SAID SHE WAS COMFORTABLE LETTING HIM HAVE THE SPOTLIGHT.

BUT THERE WERE MOMENTS WHEN IT WAS NOT COOL.

SHE SHOT THE VIDEO OF THE L.A.

RIOTS.

SHE HUNG OUT OF THE HELICOPTER AS THE GUYS IN THE STREET WERE SHOOTING THE -- AT THE HELICOPTER WITH GUNS AND THERE WAS A BULLET HOLE IN THE BATTERY BENEATH HER SEAT.

SHE DIDN'T GET THE COVERAGE FORM IT.

THEY WON AN EMYES AND HER NAME WAS TAKEN OFF THE EMMY TO ADD GUYS ON THE ASSIGNENT DESK, AND I THINK THAT BOTHERED HER FOR A LONG TIME.

I TRIED TO CORRECT THAT RECORD IN THE BOOK BECAUSE SHE TID INCREDIBLE THINGS.

>> Braude: WELL, WHILE THE CREDIT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN SHARED, WHAT WAS SHARED, AND THIS WAS PAINFUL IN YOUR BOOK, WAS VIOLENCE AND AND ABUSE DIRECTED AT HER, YOUR SIBLING, YOU.

CAN YOU FILL IN THE BLANKS?

WHAT WAS IT LIKE LIVING IN THE TUR HOUSEHOLD WHEN YOU WERE A KID?

>> IT WAS A LOT.

IT HAD ITS UPS AND DOWNS.

A HELICOPTER FLYING IN THE AIR AND THEN A HELECOPTERRER IN FREE FALL.

IT COULD BE A LOT OF FUN.

IT CERTAINLY WAS INTERESTING.

I LITERALLY GREW UP IN A HELICOPTER.

I WAS IN A HELICOPTER MORE THAN IN MY OWN BED.

I SAW LOS ANGELES FROM A VANTAGE POINT NOBODY ELSE GOT.

WE GOT TO HAVE LUNCH IN CATALINA FOR THE DAY OR SAN FRANCISCO.

I MEAN, WE DID AMAZING THINGS, AND I HAD A LOT OF TUN IF, BUT THAT FUN WAS OFTEN COUPLED WITH TERROR AND VERY SCARY MOMENTS.

MY DAD WAS REALLY YOUNG WHEN I WAS BORN.

MY DAD DEALT WITH A LOT OF ABUSE FROM MY GRANDFATHER, PHYSICAL ABUSE AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE, AND THE NEWS WAS REALLY A STRESSFUL PLACE, AND ALL OF THAT CAME OUT BECAUSE MY DAD DIDN'T DEAL WITH IT IN RAGE AND SOMETIMES PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.

WHEN I WAS YOUNG, HE WOULD PUNCH THE WALLS AND LEAVE HOLES IN THE WALL.

HE WOULD THROW BATTERIES AT MY MOTHER IF SHE DIDN'T DO AS GOOD A JOB AS HE WANTED OR SHE WASN'T LISTENING RIGHT.

HE AT TIMES WOULD GET PHYSICAL WITH MY BROTHER AND I.

BUT MORE THAN THAT, THERE WAS JUST A LOT OF YELLING AND A LOT OF ANGER AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS HARD.

I RAN AWAY FROM IT.

>> Braude: YOU WRITE THAT YOU MADE A LIST OF THE THINGS HE WOULD THROW AT YOUR MOTHER, WHICH REALLY HALLS STAYED WITH ME.

YOU ALSO WRITE EARLIER IN THE BOOK, KATY, THAT UNTIL THIS VERY MOMENT, I HAVE BEEN AVOIDING MY CHILDHOOD AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT.

WHY DID YOU STOP -- I'M A GUY WHO DOESN'T LIKE TELLING PEOPLE WHAT I HAD FOR LUNCH.

YOU ARE TO TRANSPARENT AND RAW IN THIS THING, WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO STOP AVOIDING IT?

>> BECAUSE IT'S A HELL OF A STORY.

ETH REALLY IS A HELL OF A STORY.

MY PARENTS DID INCREDIBLE THINGS AND IT MADE ME WHO I AM TODAY.

AIM JOURNALIST.

I'VE HAD SOME WILD EXPERIENCES COVERING THE NEWS FROM PLANE ( CRASHING SOUNDS ) S TO POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS, AND I WAS OFTEN ASKED, YOU KNOW, WHY DIDN'T YOU QUIT WHEN YOU COVERED DONALD TRUMP?

I MEAN, HE DIRECTED THE CROWDS AT YOU, YOU GOT DEATH THREATS, WHY DID YOU KEEP DOING IT?

AND I -- YOU KNOW, I -- IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY, I HAD TO LOOK BACK, AND IT'S PARTIALLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY MY PARENTS WERE JOURNALISTS.

SO, I MEAN, WHY DID I DO IT NOW?

IT'S A HELL OF A STORY, I WANT MY KIDS TO KNOW IT AND, IN ORDER TO TELL THE STORY, I'VE GOT TO TELL IT IN FULL AND THAT MEANS YOU HAVE TO GET THE GOOD WITH THE BAD.

>> Braude: AND RELIVE THE PAIN.

THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OF TRUMP IN YOUR FATHER.

IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

>> THEY ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON AND DON'T HAVE THE SAME VIEWS, AS I WRITE IN THE BOOK.

IF THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A THERAPIST, I WOULD RECOMMEND THE SAME ONE.

>> Braude: I WAS HOPING I'D GET THE ONE-LINER.

I'M DOING AN INTERVIEW FROM THE BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY, ABOUT A HUNDRED YARDS FROM THE FINISH LINE OF THE BOSTON MARATHON.

YOU WERE COVERING THE MARATHON AND YOU GET A CALL FROM YOUR FATHER.

WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?

>> MY FATHER CALLS, WE HAD A TENSE RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST.

I'M VERY CAREFUL WITH PRONOUNCE HERE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE ME A LITTLE SPACE.

HE CALLS AND SAYS, I'M NOT HE, I'M NOT BOB TUR, I'M ZOE TUR, FIRST IT WAS HANNAH, AND I'M A WOMAN AND THIS IS MY TRUE SELF AND THIS IS WHY I HAVE BEEN SO ANGRY AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO GET A LOT BETTER NOW.

YOU KNOW, IN THE MOMENT, IT THREW ME FOR A LOOP AND I DIDN'T REALLY FEEL LIKE I HAD THE VOCABULARY FOR IT.

I'LL BE HONEST, IN THE MOMENT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO SWITCH THE PRONOUNCE IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE I LIVED FOR 30 YEARS WITH SOMEONE WHO IDENTIFIED AS ONE PERSON AND NOW THIS IS CHANGING, AND IT PRECIPITATED NOT THE TRANSITION BUT THE CONFRONTATION WE HAD IN TRYING TO CONFRONT WHAT BOB TUR DID PRECIPITATED AN EVEN BIGGER BREAK, AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS NOT GREAT, AND IT STILL ISN'T GREAT.

>> Braude: I SAW HIM SAY -- HER -- PARDON ME -- ON I THINK THE CBS MORNING NEWS WHEN AT THIS SAW AN INTERVIEW WHERE HE SAID HE LOVED YOU.

HOW DID YOU REACT TO WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY, YOUR FATHER HAD TO SAY IN THAT INTERVIEW?

>> WELL, IT'S ALWAYS -- ANY CHILD WILL TELL YOU IT'S GREAT TO HEAR A PARENT SAY THEY LOVE YOU, AND I LOVE HEARING THAT.

YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T DO THIS TO BE VINDICATED, I DIDN'T DO IT TO SETTLE A SCORE OR TO EMBARRASS ANYBODY, I JUST DID IT TO TELL THE TRUTH, AND TO BE AUTHENTIC.

I'M ALWAYS HOPEFUL THAT THINGS WILL GET BETTER.

I'M HOPEFUL FOR THE FUTURE.

I WANT MY DAD TO BE HAPPY.

>> Braude: WHEN YOU SAID YOU'RE HOPEFUL FOR THE FUTURE, I KNOW YOU MEANT THAT IN A PERSONAL WAY, BUT I I REMEMBER YOU WROTE IN THE INTRODUCTION OF YOUR BOOK EARLY ON, YOU'RE AFRAID FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY.

WHY ARE YOU AFRAID?

>> I AM VERY AFRAID, AND I WANT TO SAY I'M HOPEFUL FOR THE FUTURE.

I'M AFRAID BECAUSE WE CAN'T SEEM TO AGREE ON THE BASICS.

WE HAD A DEADLY PANDEMIC AND WE COULDN'T AGREE ON LIFE OR DEATH ISSUES.

WE CAN'T AGREE, IT SEEMSICS, ON WHETHER THE SKY IS BLUE, AND THAT'S NOW SCARY.

YOU ARE ABLE TO GO WHEREVER YOU WANT TO HEAR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HEAR.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO TUNE INTO A NIGHTLY BROADCAST AT 6:30 TO FIND OUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WORLD, YOU GO TO Facebook, TWITTER OR WHATEVER NEWS OUTLET YOU MIGHT GO TO AND, BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU ARE HEARING DECIDEDLY DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE SAME EVENT, AND SOME OF THEM ARE JUST COMPLETELY UNTRUE VERSIONS OF THE SAME EVENT.

THAT SCARES ME.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE GET BACK TO A PLACE WHERE WE HAVE A SHARED SET OF FACTS.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT THERE IS A LARGER PART OF THE POPULATION THAT'S OUT THERE THAT'S GOING TO SAY ENOUGH AND BE MORE VOCAL AND ACTIVE IN POLITICS SO THAT WE CAN GET THINGS BACK ON TRACK.

>> Braude: AND WHEN WE WERE WATCHING THE HEARINGS, WHEN I WAS THINK HG ABOUT EVERY MINUTE WITH HALF MY BRAIN WAS WHAT BEING SAID AND TRYING TO IMAGINE WITH THE OTHER HALF OF MY BRAIN, WHO IS THE PERSON OUT THERE WHO UNTIL LAST THURSDAY NIGHT WAS A TRUMPO FILE WHO WAS FINALLY SAYING, AH, I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE?

CAN YOU IDENTIFY THAT PERSON IN YOUR MIND?

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK IT'S HARD -- I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW -- I DON'T WANT TO MAKE A PERSON'S MIND UP FOR THEM.

I THINK YOU SHOULD LOOK MORE TOWARD THE PERSON WHO HAS BEEN DISAFFECTED WITH POLITICS AND LOOKS AT THAT AND SAYS, THIS IS NOT OKAY, I'VE GOT TO GET INVOLVED.

THE LIE HAS BECOME SO ENTRENCHED WITH PEOPLE WHO LOVE DONALD TRUMP, SO ENTRENCHED, AND IT GETS REINFORCED BY THE PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP, BY TRUMP HIMSELF, BY CERTAIN CABLE NEWS HOSTS, AND BY OTHER POLITICIANS WHO ARE TRYING TO DRAFT OFF THE PRESIDENT, AND BECAUSE IT'S SO EMPHASIZED AND SO AMPLIFIED, I THINK IT'S HARD -- IT'S HARD TO BREAK FREE OF IT.

>> Braude: KATY, BEFORE YOU GO, WHEN I MET YOU A COUPLE OF MINUTES AGO, I SAID BOTH YORE YOUR BOOKS WERE TERRIFIC AND BOTH COULD HAVE BEEN CALLED UNBELIEVABLE, BECAUSE "ROUGH DRAFT" IS UNBELIEVABLE BUT TRUE.

WHAT DO YOU HOPE PEOPLE TAKE AWAY FROM THIS SECOND MEMOIR OF YOURS?

>> I HOPE THEY'RE ENTERTAINED, HONESTLY, AND I HOPE THE DARKER PARTS OF IT -- BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF FUN STUFF -- BUT I HOPE IN THE DARKER PARTS OF IT, I HOPE SOME PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY'RE BEING SEEN.

I'VE HEARD FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE SINCE THIS BOOK CAME OUT, OR SINCE -- IT'S ONLY BEEN A DAY.

I'VE HEARD A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO READ PARTS OF IT WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, I WENT THROUGH SOMETHING SIMILAR, AND THANK YOU BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SCARED TO TALK ABOUT IT.

I REALLY DID NOT EXPECT THAT, AND I'M SO HAPPY THAT IT'S LANDING THAT WAY.

AND, ALSO, I THINK IT'S A GOOD WAY TO THINK ABOUT THE MEDIA AND OUR LANDSCAPE AND WHERE -- HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S SOME FUN MEDIA ANALYSIS, AND SOME REVELATIONS.

THERE ARE SOME REMINDERS ABOUT WALTER CRONKITE IN THERE, AS WELL.

A TEASE.

>> Braude: I HOPE WE GET TO TALK ABOUT THE MEDIA SOME DAY SOON.

KATY, REALLY ENJOYED THE BOOK AND THE TIME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH ME.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Braude: BE WELL.

KATY TUR'S BOOK IS "ROUGH DRAFT."

AND AGAIN, YOU CAN CATCH KATY TUR IN PERSON AT THE BROOKLINE BOOKSMITH THIS THURSDAY AT 6:00 P.M. THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

KING BOSTON'S IMARI PARIS JEFFRIES WILL JOIN ME ON HONORING JUNETEENTH, ITS PLACE IN U.S. HISTORY, AND BLACK JOY.

PLUS, THE CALL FOR CONTINUED WORK TOWARD RACIAL JUSTICE.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

AND STAY SAFE.

P Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org