Welcome Republican freshman Representative Bill Schuette to the on our broadcast this week.

He's working to get house control in the hands of Republicans next year.

Our lead story, liberal Democrats get a win of sorts on how to grow jobs, but not a victory yet.

Around the table, Simon Schuster, Emily Lawler, and Chad Livengood.

Sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

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And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome back to Studio C for another edition of Off the Record An Interesting Week in our town.

This week, we have this debate going over the SOAR fund and now we have son of SOAR.

Take a look.

Progressive Democrats in th Michigan House scored a victory this wee when they convinced the governor and House Democratic Speake Joe Tate from Detroit to endorse the so-called SOAR 2 progressive plan to create new jobs through new spending, including pouring more money into mass transit all over the state and building more housing for workers to live in.

The package is also embraced by General Motors because there is money in ther for the rent center in Detroit.

And millionaire Dan Gilbert i on board with this package, too.

But despite all that the speaker does need 56 votes to pass this.

And right now he does not have them.

Some moderates in the House Democratic Caucus are pulling their support because they are not happy the progressives got what they wanted.

So the speaker needs to do one of two things, find a way to get those moderate Democrats back in the fold.

Or he can go into the House Republican caucus or he can go into House Republican Leader Matt Hall's caucus to try to scrounge up some votes there among the Republicans who appear to be in no mood to provide the speaker with the votes that he needs right now.

Compounding the speaker' challenge, 13 public education groups, including the NEA, oppose this progressive package because they argue there's not enough money for the K through 12 school system and dollars earmarked for schools might be going someplace else.

As you look at these four bills, we're essentially agnostic on the policy at this point, but it's a large chunk of money to obligate for ten years.

We are urging the legislature not to adopt any long term spending bills.

The education lobby opposition will make it tougher for the speaker to find the votes he needs to get this job done.

And needless to say, the speaker, who has been a long time supporter of the MEA, is none too pleased that the union is opposing what he wants right now.

As push comes to shove on how to create jobs and whose pla will get the 56 votes to do it.

So, Emily, confusion in the Democratic caucus.

Welcome to our world.

You know, they kept us together for a really long time.

But I think this is one of those issues that's going to be hard to keep it together on.

Obviously, transit funding has been a long time priority for especially the more progressive members, but I don't thin any of those progressive members were campaigning on giving a large amount of money to corporations.

So, you know, it's sort of a a split of the baby.

Everyon gets a little bit of something.

But is the mix right enough to make everyone happy?

But the speaker is not there.

He's not at 56.

Yeah, I mean, I thin when you look at these economic development programs, nothing speaks more in more detail towards what Democrats want in terms of a future vision for Michigan.

And so as you see this sort of recalibration of what the mix should be, you're opening the door to a lot.

I think you could say that canvas is becoming a lot more blank, especially when you look at this earmarked for the Renaissance Center, because it becomes an earmark for a specific project that opens that door a lot further in terms of we can really have a lot of flexibility in where we want these dollars to go.

And that means that there's going to be a lot of people, you know, at the table saying, you know, where's our seat at the table in the future of Michigan?

I think I think naming the Renaissance Cente is a poison pill in this thing, because they've already taken $666 million and handed a check to General Motors and its battery partner for the construction of this new battery plant for under the Superfund.

This sort of this is a for for people who don't know what SOAR is it this is a cash for jobs grant program.

We never had a program like this where we always had a tax credit program where you had to basically create jobs in order to get money back on your tax return as a corporation.

This program, we just give checks, big, big checks to trying to compete with.

Eliminate the middle man.

Well, compete with southern states that have done this for years.

And then then they came i and got Tennessee and Kentucky, got a bi you know, a couple of big, huge Ford investments right under our nose.

So the politicians, the Republican legislature at the time and the Democrat governor got together and created this big fund because it had all this cash laying around from from from COVID.

But when you start throwing in more money for GM in this equation, that just makes the progressives squirm a little bit.

And so, I mean, Joe Tate really can't win here on several fronts.

I do.

I do.

By the way, Tim like like your Son of SOAR term for this, its better than SOAR 2.

I had help writing that.

I'm sure.

I haven't had an original thought in years.

Well, this is look it this is one of the classic example is that you get something nailed down over here in something pops out over there, right?

That's absolutely.

I mean, when you look at the Renaissance Center, I think beyond just money for GM, this is something that's about the future of Detroit.

And I think that the direction you see, SOAR or Son of Soar going right is that there's less interest in sort of revitalizing an automotive legacy because, I mean, EV transition is happening and the question is what role Michigan is going to play in that.

And so, I mean, I think Governor Gretchen Whitmer's vision has been we want to be a serious competitor at the table and this money is a down paymen to show how serious we are and pivot towards from Democrats.

We're more interested in quality of life for the economy as it stands in Michigan that we already have.

And so, I mean, this is a fundamental difference of opinion.

Well now the speaker has an option.

He could go over on the other side and try to find some Republican votes.

But now they've got him over the barrel.

And so the price tag for getting their votes might be off the charts as well.

So SOAR was initially a bipartisan concept that was come up with by both parties.

I think in recent, you know, even years we've seen the Republicans peel away from that.

They've really bee pretty critical of the spending.

They've certainly questioned a lot of the spending and its efficacy.

And frankly, this hasn't been going on for long enough that we have a really good data set on how this plays out.

Right?

But what they have seen, they'v certainly poked some holes in.

And I think for a lot of Republicans, they're philosophically opposed to this method of economic incentive right now.

Well, if you look at the cash for jobs, it's the equation is slanted towards more cash than jobs, right?

Yes.

And the jobs we're talking about are mere entry level type manufacturing jobs that are in the night.

Some of them are $19, $20 an hour that they're talking about for jobs.

And so this is not a get a lot of people excited.

That's why that's why the Senate Democrats tried to try to change this program, focus on a little mor a quality of life improvements.

And so this this proposa that the House is talking about, $6 billion over ten years earmarked, half of it would go to this super fund to the governor.

This governor in the next governor could could deliver the money.

2 billion of it goes to transit.

And this is the real sel right now with Democrats is like you all have have have campaigne on on trying to improve transit for people in urban areas to get to jobs and to get the bill to life and whatnot.

And then housing, I mean, there's a billion dollars for housing in this that they're trying to.

But the other day, in the day when you see like the MEA is coming out and opposing these things, that's that's a classic Lansing where if you start talking about earmarking something for a decade, people get other people other people come to the fight that you wouldn't you wouldn't expect.

You're trying to fight over transit and economic development and housing.

And all of a sudden the school groups are showing up at the table.

And and that's jus and in the middle of the budget of which they have not finished.

And they only got two weeks to do so.

Well, that was a monkey wrench in the budget process.

And I'm told the speaker was not happy with the MEA because the line was, goodness gracious, we've been with you for so long and now when I need you, you show up in a Zoom news conference and you're dumping cold water on the plan that I'm trying to push.

Now, not only do we have some of sort, but we have Stepson of Son of SOAR is Emily Devendorf, if you will, to keep the movement going.

And we are offering a variation on that, which is less money for the corporate folks which is just dead set against.

But the transportation money remains.

Yeah.

And I mean I think that this is something that's an enormous asset for Son of SOAR because it gives them a position as the middle ground and it shows like, oh, if we want a puritanical progressive vision for what this account can be, we have that plan now.

And so if you want something that is i between that the original SOAR and then this progressive vision from Devendorf and we'll get to that, this then represents sort of a compromise.

Well, is this D.O.A.?

I mean, no, I never say never, but certainly it looks like it has a really tough road ahead.

And, you know I get the concept of Democrats were trying to wrap in a bunch of things to, you know, take a more holistic approach to economic development, but it ends up looking like horse trades wrapped inside of horse trades wrapped inside of horse trades.

Right.

And that's why you see groups like the MEA that theoretically wouldn't have much to do with this weighing in.

Not everybody's excited about this transit piece.

Because they don't know exactly where the money is going to go, who's going to get it.

It's not very specific.

They create like a board, right?

That is going t the governor is going to appoint and then that board is going to dig it up.

You know, another board in Lansing that has the ability to basically dictate the flow of hundreds of millions of dollars.

I thought thats why we had a legislature.

What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah.

I mean, that's that's the other thing is that yeah, that is why we have a legislature and that's why we have an appropriations process.

And and that's that's the biggest argument against, against earmarks in general and, and incentives is that you just start taking away the power of the legislature.

And we have an example of that in the mega tax credits.

That there are 20 year deals that the legislature has.

Its hands are tied in every year, $600 millio a year goes shoved out the door, and most of it goes to the big three.

And another fly in the ointment here is the chairperson of the House Appropriations Committee who, when given a chance to embrace this, the speaker's program.

What did she do?

She I got to see the final legislation which sent the signal I'm aint going onboard with this right now.

Am I reading that correctly?

I think so.

But I think also, you know, we're early enough in the process of reformulating what's an enormously complex economic development program that I think, as we said there's going to be horse trades within horse trades on this.

And I think the question is this is Democrats pivoting from saying here's, you know, in our first year leading this capital that we have a bunch of policies that we can undo.

Now we're looking at something that, again, is increasingly a blank canvas that sort of reflecting our vision for the future of Michigan.

And now those tension are starting to emerge publicly.

Amids all this fighting in the House Democratic Caucus and the Senate is the Senate Democrats passed their bill.

The senate loves this.

They're well, they're sitting over there waiting around.

The one person we haven't talked about, we haven't really seen much from that is Governor Gretchen Whitmer.

Yes, surprise, surprise.

She would like to just have all the money.

Thank you.

And let me let me.

Most governors would.

And and s but she seemed to be warming up to this idea of a ten year plan so that it was locked in so that she could basically say, we've got this nailed down.

It can't be touched.

We're going to pass i on to my friend, my successor.

And and so, you know, what she does and how involved she gets in the next couple of weeks is going to be something to watch.

But let's remember, no legislature can write and tel a future legislature what to do.

Right?

And that is a concept in the Constitution.

Yes, it is.

And it's one that legislators, new legislator have exercised over the years.

You know, you guys didn't get it right.

We'll get it right.

So a ten year pla may only be a ten minute plan.

And I think one thin that's important to note, too, is that the revitalization of American domestic manufacturing is the center of President Joe Biden's domestic agenda.

And, you know, Gretchen Whitmer is the co-chair of Biden's campaign, is really sort of working part and parcel with that.

She's resting her legacy in part on ensuring that, you know, there' this automotive revitalization.

Alright so quickly, Donald Trump coming in to Motown.

Yes.

So on Saturday Donald Trump will be back in in Michigan to do a couple of stops in Detroit.

He's going to be speaking at a roundtable, white at a black church in Detroit on the west side of the city.

And then he is going to be speaking at the Turning Point Action Conference, People's Convention at the Huntington Place, a very conservative, very pro MAGA group.

I mean, so it's a is going to be a split screen moment where he's trying to trying to try to break a little bit into Joe Biden's lock on African-American voters in Detroit in Wayne County.

And then he's going to g through a red meat to his base.

What's the target?

How much percentage out of Detroit, what kind of bounce does he want?

Oh, listen, I mean, it's a turnout game.

Even if there's a couple of people who shift to his side, even if there's a couple of people who go to RFK, even if there's a couple of people who stay home, all of those things benefit Donald Trump this election.

I think we should be clear here that Trump had been scheduled for months to speak at this turning point people's convention, and that this roundtable at this Detroit church was sort of tacked on at the last minute.

And we've seen the Biden campaign strenuously exert themselves to lock down and build enthusias among black voters in Detroit.

All right, let's carlinville shooting at this point, Representative.

Representative Schuette, welcome to Off the Record.

Nice to see you, sir, on this beautiful Friday morning.

So let's cut to the chase, you guys are trying to take control of the House with Donald Trump at the top of the ticket.

Does he cost you votes with some independent women and other independents?

No, I think having Donald Trump at the top of the ticket is going to be helpful because this election is going to be a referendum on the failed presidency of Joe Biden.

And between higher prices at the grocery store, gas station, a crisis on our southern border.

Michigan is is going to be a state that goes red in November at the top of the ticket to the state house.

Have you seen the polling data that independent voters and women are not pleased with Mr. Trump, o are you refuse to look at that?

No, no.

I've seen polling data that has Donald, you know, I've seen polling data that has Donald Trump ahead in Michigan right now.

And I think that's going to be you know, that's because Joe Biden's presidency has been such a failure from, again, you know, the price of groceries, the price of gas.

I think Donald Trump is going to win Michigan.

And I think and I know the Republicans are going to take back the state House.

Emily?

So in terms of the mechanics of the Republicans taking back the state House, under your plan, what are two or three districts you're looking at that see really promising at this point?

Yeah, So we all know where the battlegrounds are in the state of Michigan.

And, you know, that's Macomb County, that's down river, that's Battle Creek.

But the good news if you're a House Republican, is this is going to be such a great year.

We've created such a strong House Republican Campaign Committee under the leadership of Matt Hall.

We're going to be able to win across the state.

That means areas like Marquette, Traverse City, outside of Grand Rapids, outside of Lansing.

We're going to win across the state in Michigan and up and down the ticket.

Okay.

So let's go to Northville, Michigan, a traditional Republican stronghold for many years, but has been going Democrat for, in the recent cycles.

How are you going to appeal to a middle aged woman who lives in Northville a wealthier suburb of Detroit, who does not like the Dobbs decision, taking away a woman's righ to choose on a national level?

I know we've we've we've passed a constitutional amendment here and it's protected.

But but this is this is a lot of the campaign appeal that that the Joe Biden's campaign is focused on is trying to keep this this this this segment of voters in his camp.

Yeah, you know what the Dobbs decision did is it returned to the issue of abortion back to the states.

And last election in Michigan, voters passed a constitutional amendment that means you can receive an abortion for any reason at any time in the state of Michigan.

And so now, you know, with with tha being the decision in Michigan, where you're going to have for that family in Northville is the fac that their grocery bill is twice as expensive as it was last year.

The fact that, you know there's concerns about fentanyl pouring over our southern border, you know the fact that gas is filling up your gas tank is is much more expensive than it was unde the presidency of Donald Trump.

I think those are going to be the election systems.

Those are going to be the issues.

This election is decided on.

You dont think that abortion's going to be a factor in Michigan?

No, I think that again, this was last election.

It was an issue that was presented in front of the voters.

Voters decided there's nothing legislativel that can be changed about that.

I think this election's goin to be on kitchen table issues.

It's going to be on the price of groceries, It's going to be on, you know, the safet and strength of our communities.

It's going to be making sure that, you know, families, know their grandkids are going to want to make Michigan a place where they're going to, you know, plant their flag and start their family.

Under the leadership of a chairperson Kristina Karamo, there had been a certainly a spli between legislative leadership and the Michigan Republican Party.

You know, she had called she disparaged the decision to use former Governor Rick Snyder to help lead fundraising, which has been successful in your parts.

Now, I understand that the current chairperson, Pete Hoekstra, is now working regularly with minority leaders Hall and Nesbitt, and meeting, I believe, on a weekly basis.

He talked to me about ho that relationship has evolved.

Yeah, and it's a it's a huge asset to our team going into this next election.

We're going to win because it's going to be a big Republican year, but also because we have a great organization of the House Republican Campaign Committee that's working hand-in-glove with the top of our ticket and with our Michigan Republican Party.

Ambassador Hoekstra, you know, he took on a tough job, but he's doing a great job.

And we have a great organization and a great team.

And we're a big tent, in the Republican Party.

We have, you know, Rick Snyder.

We have people on all ends of the political spectrum.

And that's part of the reaso we're going to win in November.

Do you want to ban birth control?

No.

What about Republicans who do?

Again, I don't think that birth control is legal in Michigan.

Birth control is going to remain legal in Michigan.

What about the people who favor it in your party?

Are they just dead wrong?

You know, you disagree with people on lots of different things, but I know that birth contro is legal in Michigan and birth control is going to remain legal in Michigan.

Back to my original question.

There are women out there who are watching what's going on in your party and they are not happy with what they are hearing.

Will you concede that point?

What I will say is I think what this election is going to be about, what we're going to be talkin about as the Republican Party.

I understand, gas, and all of other stuff.

But my question is still on the table.

Will you concede that some women are concerned about that?

I understand tha people are concerned about that.

And that's why I would say that birth control is legal.

Birt control is going to remain legal in the state of Michigan.

And that's what I'm also going to say is, you know, I think gas and all that stuff is is is is a really big issue.

And I think the cost of living in our state, the cost of housing, those are those are issue that I think are going to be why voters choose Republicans this fall.

What is the Republican polic solution to the cost of housing?

You know, $90,000 to every new home build in multi-famil housing in the state of Michigan is regulatory cost, and that's from everything from permitting to zoning.

We need to take a holistic approach to how we handle those processes.

I feel like half of the constituent issues I deal with in my office are issues with Lara and Eagle.

So instead of, you know, having to wait all this time for permits to get process, it's just sitting on some bureaucrat's desk.

Let's move to maybe a shale issue format, and you're goin to see a package of legislation rolled out b some of my colleagues later this this term that talks about opportunities for down payment tax credits, eliminating the real estate transfer tax.

There's tangible things we can do to get government out of the wa and reduce the cost of housing.

So EVs have become sor of an unexpected election issue.

Maybe not unexpected, but, you know, cars aren't typicall at the center of our political debates that may be somewhat here in Michigan.

But in any case, you know, you've got Trump at the top of the ticket saying that EVs are bad and sort of disparaging them on the national level.

You've got Joe Biden and Gretchen Whitmer incentivizing and trying to grow an EV ecosystem here, including in Michigan.

You know, how does that translate down ballot?

I know that Republicans have been against SOA and some of the EV incentives.

I mean, is the line just internal combustion engines for life?

Is that EVs with moderate say and how do you approach that?

I think the line here is that if you want to drive an electric vehicle that's fine.

That's your option.

I don't think the government should be forcing people into a technology that, you know, doesn't fit everyone's lifestyle and doesn't fit everyone's opportunity.

I was talking to a car dealer in the Midland area and he was telling me about how a woman purchased an electric vehicle from him, came back a couple of weeks later in tears, asking to buy the car back because it didn't have enough charge to get her through her day.

It says, you know, they say it has 250 miles.

That's worth going 75 down the freeway without the air conditioning.

And they turn on the radio and turn on the heat.

It doesn't work for her lifestyle.

Simon was talking about his trip to Europe and he was driving an electric vehicle that was working out fine for him.

So the government shouldn't be telling people what type of vehicle they should be driving.

That's a decision for the individual consumer to make.

And shouldnt be incentivizing a certain type of vehicle or?

Well, I think that, you know, what we've seen with, you know, the Democrats plan to give money towards electric vehicles and batteries.

We've spent billions of dollars and we've created 200 jobs.

That's not a good I'm not the best at math, but I know that's no a good dollar for dollar return.

When you look at the 2020 election, upper middle class suburban voters were a key part of Joe Biden's coalition that led to his victory here.

Right now, there' a growing economic inequality.

There's an economic divide in this country.

While some folks in the lower end of the economic spectrum are certainly struggling, when you look at the macroeconomic data, it's great statistics.

You know, retirement accounts are booming, stock markets reaching record highs.

How are you going to carry tha narrative of economic struggle to those classes, regardless of what they might see when they look at, check their 401K.

Yeah, I think the average Michigan family and the average Michigander, they're not worried about, you know, what the stock price of NVIDIA is, they're worried about the price of their groceries.

They're worried about the cost of living in their housing.

And I think that's what resonates, you know, across the board more voters versus, you know, the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

Do you have a divisio in the House Republican caucus?

No, I think we're we're united caucus.

We're going to win it.

Why is there a Freedom Caucus then?

You know there's also a sportsman caucus?

There is lots of different on the Freedom Caucus because it's a little more interesting.

Okay.

All right.

We can see you've got some ultra conservatives who are marching to a different drummer.

You know, there's always people within again, the Republican Party is a big tent and there's room in our big tent for people who have a variety of different opinions on on different issues.

And, you know, the Freedom Caucus is has their stance on issue just like we are talking about the Senate.

SOAR, the Stepson of SOAR earlier.

And there's progressives in the Democratic caucus who have different ideas.

If your party is so big tent, how come more Republicans didn't vote for changing Elliot Larson?

You know, that's something that I think we had a bipartisan coalition that's important.

And Elliot Larson, other people had a different stance.

And how did you vote on.

I voted to expand Elliot Larson.

Did you get some flak for that?

You know, and whenever you're voting on any issue, there's going to be people who said I made the right decision or the wrong decision.

You have to vote what you think is right.

I don't think anyone should be discriminated against in the state of Michigan.

I also think protecting religious liberty is very important.

So I've introduced stand alone legislation to make sure that we're also protecting our religious organizations in their freedom of religion, which is another very important First Amendment right.

Don't you have to be kind of careful here?

You're certainly like a moderate Republican.

No, You know, I, I think you can you can you can check my record.

You can check my tape.

And I'm a principled conservative.

But again, you vote on every issue, how it comes down the pip and do what you think is right.

Does Matt Hall have your full support to continu as Republican leader?

Oh, yeah.

This is going to terrify the Democrats in in Lansing.

But when the dust settles on November 5th, we're going to have taken back the majority in the House Republicans.

And Matt Hall is going to b the next speaker of the House.

So I think I just heard an earthquake.

I want to ask a personal question.

We're taping this show for for Father's Day.

Oh, tell us something about your father, Bill Schuette, the former attorney general, who we all know well, something that we don't know about him as a dad.

Every single day.

It didn't matter if, you know, he was, you know, having to, you know, get up and come on Off the Record early in the morning, had early morning meetings Lansing, got back late from a Lincoln Day, he'd wake me up for football workouts and practice every morning and he would you know, make peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Sometimes the ratios were a little bit off, depending on how much sleep he had gotten before.

But dad was always present in life and in politics is a hard job to be present in your children's life.

And, you know, Dad made sur he put in the time to do that.

So what advice would you giv you about doing off the record?

He said, Make sure you don't let Tim Skubick push you around too much.

And it's funny, growing up, I you know, most kids would watch Saturday morning cartoons.

We'd watch Off the Record in the Shuette household.

So it's it's a good opportunity to be on here today.

Sounds like abuse but.

Yeah.

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

It's.

Hi.

You're on time.

An audience of two.

Hey.

Yeah, There you go.

Yeah.

Thank you.

It's good to see you.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Tim.

Okay.

Thank you, everybody.

Everybody, have a nice Father's Day.

Chad.

Congratulations on your marriage.

Thank you.

All right.

We'll see you all right here for more Off the Record next week, please tune in.

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