♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY," HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> THE SUPREME COURT HAS NEVER BEEN AS OUT OF KILTER AS IT IS TODAY.

>> THE U.S. SUPREME COURT IS MAKING SOME OF THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL RULINGS IN RECENT HISTORY.

HOW IT COULD CHANGE AMERICA WITH LAW PROFESSOR JESSICA ROTH AND THE ECONOMIST, STEVEN MAZIE.

>>> THEN, FROM NEW YORK TO GREECE TO SAUDI ARABIA, SCORCHING TEMPERATURES ARE KILLING HUNDREDS AND RAISING FEARS FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR PLANET.

WE GET THE LATEST WITH CLIMATE SCIENTIST, BRADLEY HORTON.

>>> AND.

>> WE MUST LOOK AT OUR NATION.

>> REVEREND WILLIAM BARBER TALKS TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK "WHITE POVERTY."

>> THAT'S REALLY ALL IT IS.

>> FROM FLEEING THE NAZIS AS A CHILD TO BRINGING TIGERS TO TEA.

WE LOOK BACK AT CHRISTIANE'S CONVERSATION WITH THE BELOVED CHILDREN'S AUTHOR, JUDITH CARR.

♪ ♪ >> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, CHARLES ROSEN BLOOM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

IT'S DECISION TIME AT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

THE NINE JUSTICES RULING ON A SERIES OF CASES THAT MAY CHANGE THE COURSE OF AMERICA BEFORE GOING INTO THEIR SUMMER RECESS.

TODAY THE COURT OFFERED A BOOST TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION BACKING A FEDERAL GUN BAN FOR DOMESTIC ABUSERS.

BUT ALL EYES ARE ON SOME KEY DECISIONS YET TO BE RELEASED, WHETHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS PROSECUTED OR PROTECTED FROM PROSECUTION FOR ACTIONS TAKEN WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT, WHETHER THE PROSECUTION OF JANUARY 6th RIOTERS VIA ABOUT OBSTRUCTION STATUTE IS LAWFUL AND IF A RESTRICTIVE IDAHO ABORTION BAN WHICH IS PREVENTING SOME PATIENTS FROM GETTING TREATMENT CAN CONTINUE.

A CASE THAT COMES ALMOST TWO YEARS TO THE DAY SINCE THE OVERTURNING OF ROE V. WADE BY THE SAME COURT.

JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS TODAY'S RULING AS WELL AS WHAT LIES AHEAD IS JESSICA ROTH, PROFESSOR OF LAW AT THE CARDOZA LAW SCHOOL AND STEVEN MAZIE, THE SUPREME COURT CORRESPONDENT FOR THE ECONOMIST.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU.

LET ME START WITH YOU, JESSICA.

JUST YOUR REACTION TO THIS NEAR UNANIMOUS DECISION WHICH FOR THE FIRST TIME I BELIEVE IN RECENT HISTORY, AT LEAST, NARROWED THE SCOPE OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT AS OPPOSED TO REALLY INTERPRETING IT IN A MORE EXPANSIVE WAY.

>> IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT WHAT THE COURT SAID IN THIS DECISION, AND IT WAS NOTABLE THAT IT WAS AN 8-1 DECISION UPHOLDING THE LAW THAT MAKES IT ILLEGAL FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS SUBJECT TO A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDER FROM POSSESSING A FIREARM.

THE COURT APPLIED THE APPROACH IT ARTICULATED IN THE BRUIN CASE, WHICH HAD BEEN AN EXPANSIVE RULING IN RIGHTINGS.

IT SAID, FOR EIGHT MEMBERS OF THE COURT THAT THIS PARTICULAR LAW PROHIBITING PEOPLE SUBJECT TO AN ORDER OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE TEST ARTICULATED IN BRUIN, AND IT SAID THAT LOWER COURTS HAD PERHAPS BEEN MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT THE COURT HAD SAID IN BRUIN AND SPECIFICALLY THAT IT WASN'T NECESSARY FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO IDENTIFY A REGULATION OR A RESTRICTION ON GUN POSSESSION AT THE FOUNDING THAT WAS IDENTICAL TO THE RESTRICTION THAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTED TO ADOPT IN MODERN TIMES.

IT JUST HAD TO BE SIMILAR ENOUGH, AND THERE'S REALLY INTERESTING LANGUAGE IN THE OPINION SAYING BASICALLY THAT OUR LAW IS NOT FIXED IN AMBER.

IT CAN, IN A SENSE BE EVOLVING, AND SO THOSE WERE REALLY IMPORTANT STATEMENTS IN THE COURT, IN THE OPINION FOR THE COURT AS WELL AS THE ULTIMATE HOLDING THAT THIS GUN RESTRICTION WAS VALID.

>> YEAH, THE CHIEF JUSTICE WHO WROTE FOR THE MAJORITY STATED THAT OUR TRADITION OF FIREARM REGULATION ALLOWS THE GOVERNMENT TO DISARM INDIVIDUALS WHO PRESENT A CREDIBLE THREAT TO THE PHYSICAL SAFETY OF OTHERS.

STEVEN, ARE YOU SURPRISED AT THE LONE DISSENT DID COME FROM CLARENCE THOMAS, GIVEN THAT HE WAS THE ONE WHO WROTE THE OPINION FOR THE 2022 CASE, REALLY EXPANDING THE SCOPE OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT?

>> NOT A SURPRISE AT ALL.

I WAS LOOKING BACK AT THE ARTICLE I WROTE AFTER THE ORAL ARGUMENT, AND I SAID IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A LARGE MAJORITY, EVEN OF THE CONSERVATIVES TO UPHOLD THIS LAW, BUT CLARENCE THOMAS MIGHT NOT, AND INDEED, HE DIDN'T.

I MEAN, THIS IS -- THIS WAS A CASE WHERE YOU HAD A PLAINTIFF WHO WAS, AS THE FIFTH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS, THE COURT BELOW CALLED HIM, NOT A MODEL CITIZEN.

THAT'S KIND OF THE UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR.

HE'S A MAN WHO THREATENED HIS GIRLFRIEND WITH A GUN, WHO SHOT AT A BYSTANDER, WHO AFTER THE DOMESTIC ORDER, THE ORDER TO PROTECT HER FROM HIM WAS INSTITUTED, CONTINUED TO USE HIS GUN, SHOOTING UP HOMES AND FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS AND TRUCKS ON THE HIGHWAY.

SO HE'S THE ONE WHO WAS ARGUING, HEY, I'VE GOT A SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT TO HAVE A GUN, AND THE ORAL ARGUMENT DID NOT GO WELL FOR HIS LAWYER.

BUT THIS WAS AN INTERESTING CASE BECAUSE IT'S A CASE WHERE THE COURT WAS RECKONING WITH ITS OWN VERY EXPANSIVE DECISION FROM 2022, WHICH WE TALKED ABOUT TOGETHER TWO YEARS AGO, ALMOST TO THE DAY.

AND IT NEEDED TO FIND A WAY TO NARROW THAT VERY BROAD RULING, AND WHAT JUSTICE THOMAS SAID WAS, HEY, I WROTE THAT RULING AND THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS, AND IT MEANS THAT THIS BAN ON HAND GUNS FOR DOMESTIC ABUSERS, SUBJECT TO RESTRAINING ORDERS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

SO I THINK -- YEAH, I THINK -- >> I WAS GOING TO SAY, THE TEXAS MAN, RAHAMI, AS YOU SAID, IS NOT A MODEL CITIZEN, HAS A VERY LENGTHY RAP SHEET.

BUT, JESSICA, DOES THIS ANSWER THE QUESTION OR CLOSE THE DOOR, REALLY, TO FUTURE LITIGATION THAT WE MAY SEE FROM OTHER STATES WITH REGARDS TO THIS OR SIMILAR QUESTIONS BECAUSE THE 2022 CASE, IT STRUCK DOWN A NEW YORK STATE LAW THAT PROHIBITED CARRYING WEAPONS OUTSIDE OF THE HOME.

DOES THAT PUT THIS QUESTION TO REST NOW, OR COULD WE STILL HEAR FUTURE CASES FROM OTHER STATES?

>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FUTURE CASES BECAUSE THIS WAS ACTUALLY A NARROW RULING.

THE COURT AT VARIOUS POINTS IN THE OPINION FOR THE MAJORITY SAID WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THIS.

WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THAT, RIGHT?

WE'RE ONLY ADDRESSING THE NARROW QUESTION BEFORE US OF THIS PARTICULAR STATUTE, AND IT WAS A FACIAL CHALLENGE, WHICH MEANT THEY WERE CONSIDERING WHETHER IT COULD BE CONSTITUTIONAL IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND THEY SAID, WELL, AS APPLIED TO THIS PARTICULAR DEFENDANT, IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL.

AND THEY SAID, WE'RE NOT PRESENTED WITH A BROAD PROHIBITION ON THE POSSESSION OF FIREARMS LIKE NEW YORK HAD THAT WAS AT ISSUE IN THE 2022 DECISION.

THIS WAS A NARROW RESTRICTION ON CERTAIN CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN ADJUDICATED TO BE A DANGER TO THE PUBLIC OR TO A SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL ON CARRYING FIREARMS AND THE COURT SAID WE FIND A SUFFICIENTLY SIMILAR HISTORICAL ANALOG TO THAT KIND OF RESTRICTION ON GUN POSSESSION AT THE FOUNDING ON PEOPLE WHO WERE FOUND TO BE ESSENTIALLY DANGEROUS TO THE PUBLIC.

THIS IS CLOSE ENOUGH TO THAT, AND WE'RE GOING TO UPHOLD THIS PARTICULAR PROVISION.

BUT THERE WILL BE CHALLENGES TO OTHER PROVISIONS OF THE SAME STATUTORY SCHEME IN FEDERAL LAW THAT PROHIBITS DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE FROM POSSESSING FIREARMS SUCH AS PEOPLE WHO HAVE A FELONY CONVICTION, PEOPLE WHO HAVE USED OR ARE ADDICTED TO CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, SO I IMAGINE WE'RE GOING TO SEE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE OTHER CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING FIREARMS UNDER FEDERAL LAW TESTING IT AS APPLIED TO THEM AND THAT PARTICULAR PROVISION OF THE STATUTE.

>> SO IN NO WAY TO DOWN PLAY THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS PARTICULAR RULING, STEVEN, JESSICA, AS YOU BOTH KNOW IS A LOT OF FOCUS IS ON WHAT WASN'T DECIDED, CASES WE HAVE YET TO HEAR DECISIONS FROM, AND THAT'S THREE I WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP WITH YOU RIGHT NOW, THAT'S WHETHER THERE'S PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY, WHETHER DONALD TRUMP IS IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION FOR SUBVERTING @2022 ELECTION, THE QUESTION OF WHETHER PROSECUTORS CAN USE A FEDERAL OBSTRUCTION CHARGE STATUTE TO CHARGE JANUARY 6th RIOTERS AND WHETHER AN IDAHO ABORTION LAW PREVENTS A FEDERAL LAW THAT REQUIRES EMERGENCY ROOMS TO TREAT PATIENTS.

STEVEN, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT IT'S TAKEN THIS LONG TO HEAR RULINGS ON THESE THREE PARTICULAR CASES?

>> WELL, JUST YOUR FOCUS ON THE PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY CASE FIRST, I MEAN, THE NEXT POSSIBLE DAY FOR RULINGS, ACCORDING TO THE COURT IS WEDNESDAY.

SO THAT WILL BE 62 DAYS AFTER THE ORAL ARGUMENT IN WHICH DONALD TRUMP AND HIS LAWYERS WERE ARGUING THAT HE DESERVES TO BE FREE AND CLEAR FROM ANY PROSECUTION, FOR ANYTHING HE DID WHILE IN OFFICE, WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT.

AND BY COMPARISON, THERE WAS ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT CASE DECIDED A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO INVOLVING WHETHER TRUMP CAN REMAIN ON THE COLORADO PRIMARY BALLOT.

IT TOOK THE COURT ONLY 25 DAYS TO DECIDE THAT CASE IN HIS FAVOR, AND BY DELAYING, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN TWICE THAT SPAN HAS PASSED SINCE THE ORAL ARGUMENT, IT'S MAKING IT VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE, EVEN IF IT IS A RULING FAVORABLE TO JACK SMITH, THE PROSECUTOR AND AGAINST TRUMP'S CLAIM OF HAVING THIS BLANKET PROTECTION, EVEN IF THAT COMES, AND I DON'T THINK THAT DECISION IS COMING, IT'S STILL VERY LATE IN THE GAME.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT WITH ALL THE PRE-TRIAL WORK, AND THEN THE ACTUAL TRIAL TO GET IT CONCLUDED OR EVEN STARTED BEFORE THE NOVEMBER ELECTION.

SO IT'S A CONCERNING GAP IN MY MIND, ESPECIALLY WHEN COMPARED TO THE OTHER RELEVANT CASE.

>> AND JACK SMITH SEEMED TO ENVISION THIS VERY SCENARIO, SORT OFF KICKING THE CAN DOWN TE R ROAD, WHICH IS WHY HE WAS TRYING TO BE PREEMPTIVE, AND LOWER COURTS, WHICH YOU WOULD TRADITIONALLY GO TO ULTIMATELY DECIDE ON THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION.

JESSICA, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A HIGH STAKES DECISION.

BUT ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT WE HAVE YET TO HEAR FROM THE SUPREME COURT ON IT, AND WHAT DO YOU MAKE, IF ANYTHING, IN TERMS OF CONNECTING THE TIMING AND SOME OF THE SKEPTICISM WE HEARD FROM THE CONSERVATIVE JUSTICES, IN RESPONSE TO THE PROSECUTION'S SIDE IN APRIL?

>> I'M NOT TERRIBLY SURPRISED THAT IT'S TAKING THEM THIS LONG TO WRITE THOSE OPINIONS, AND WHEN I SAY OPINIONS, I MEAN I EXPECT THAT THERE WILL BE NOT JUST A MAJORITY OPINION BUT PROBABLY MULTIPLE CONCURRENTS AND SOME DISSENTING OPINIONS, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S PROBABLY WHY IT'S TAKING SO LONG.

THERE ARE MULTIPLE AUTHORS DRAFTING OPINIONS AND SEEING IF THEY CAN GET JUSTICES TO SIGN ON.

WHAT I'M REALLY WATCHING FOR IS WHETHER THEY ARE GOING TO ULTIMATELY ISSUE AN OPINION THAT SETS FORTH A STANDARD FOR WHEN THERE IS OR COULD BE PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY FROM CRIMINAL PROSECUTION, AND SEND IT BACK TO THE LOWER COURTS TO APPLY IT, AND IF THEY DO THAT, THAT MEANS THERE WILL BE ANOTHER ROUND OF APPEALS UP THROUGH THE COURTS LIKELY BEFORE ANY TRIAL COULD GO FORWARD OR WHETHER THEY MIGHT SAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO ARTICULATE A STANDARD AND SEND IT BACK.

WE'RE GOING TO SAY ON THE FACTS, THERE IS NO IMMUNITY, WE CAN DECIDE THAT NARROWLY, WITHOUT HAVING TO SEND IT BACK.

IF THEY CHOOSE THE LATTER APPROACH, THERE'S POSSIBLY A WINDOW FOR A TRIAL TO OCCUR BEFORE THE ELECTION.

BUT IF THEY SEND IT BACK, THAT JUST MEANS THINGS TAKE MUCH MUCH LONGER BECAUSE OF THAT ADDITIONAL ROUND OF APPEALS, AND PERHAPS THEY'RE STILL DISCUSSING AMONG THEMSELVES WHICH ROUTE THEY'RE GOING TO GO.

>> JESSICA, HOW SIGNIFICANT WILL THIS RULING BE ON IDAHO'S RIGHT TO OVERSTATE RIGHTS WITH REGARDS TO PROVIDING ABORTIONS, ESPECIALLY IN EMERGENCY CARE, GIVEN THAT COME MONDAY, JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS FROM NOW, WE WILL BE HITTING THE TWO-YEAR ANNIVERSARY THAT THIS EXACT COURT OVERTURNED ROE?

>> YEAH, IT'S GOING TO BE ENORMOUSLY SIGNIFICANT.

OBVIOUSLY IT WILL TURN ON EXACTLY HOW THE OPINION IS WRITTEN.

BUT THIS IS GOING TO BE THE KIND OF LITIGATION WE'RE GOING TO SEE PLAYING OUT REPEATEDLY, I THINK, IN THE WAKE OF THE COURT OVERTURNING ROE WITH THESE KINDS OF ISSUES COMING UP.

>> STEVE, WE HAVE SEEN APPROVAL RATINGS OF THE SUPREME COURT REALLY GETTING THE SAME NEGATIVE NUMBERS THAT CONGRESS HIMSELF HAS BEEN RECEIVING FOR YEARS NOW.

AND WE LEARNED OF INFIGHTING AMONG THE JUSTICES.

HISTORICAL DIVIDE, AND TENSIONS LEAKING WHEN THE ROE DECISION REVERBERATING, AND IT'S RARE, AND SEEMS TO BE MORE COMMON TO HEAR PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES, NOT JUST FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, BUT OBVIOUSLY PRESIDENT BIDEN SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE SUPREME COURT.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID LAST WEEKEND IN CALIFORNIA.

>> THE SUPREME COURT HAS NEVER BEEN AS OUT OF KILTER AS IT IS TODAY.

I MEAN, NEVER.

I TAUGHT CONSTITUTIONAL LAW FOR NINE YEARS, THIS GUY KNOWS MORE ABOUT IT THAN MOST.

FACT OF THE MATTER IS THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A COURT THAT'S SO FAR OUT OF STEP.

>> IS HE RIGHT, STEVEN?

IS HE RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT AND SAY SUCH THINGS, TOO?

>> WELL, I THINK THE SUPREME COURT IS AN ISSUE WHICH IS GOING TO BECOME MORE AND MORE PROMINENT AS PEOPLE THINK ABOUT WHO THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR IN NOVEMBER, THOSE WHO ARE STILL DECIDING.

IT IS, I MEAN, HISTORICALLY, THE COURT IS OUT OF STEP IN A WAY THAT IT HASN'T BEEN IN AT LEAST A CENTURY.

A 6-3 CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE 5-4 CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY WITH JUSTICE KENNEDY IN THE MIDDLE WHO WOULD FLOAT LEFT ON IMPORTANT CASES ABOUT GAY RIGHTS AND ABORTION AND OCCASIONALLY RACE.

YOU KNOW, THINGS HAVE CHANGED SO MUCH IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, AND ESPECIALLY WITH DONALD TRUMP'S THREE APPOINTEES, PARTICULARLY THE FINAL ONE JUSTICE BARRETT REPLACING JUSTICE GINSBERG.

THAT WAS REALLY THE REVOLUTION ON THE COURT.

SO WHAT'S TO COME, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TWO JUSTICES.

THE MOST MAGA OF THE JUSTICES ARE NOT THE ONES THAT DONALD TRUMP PUT ON THE COURT.

JUSTICE ALITO AND JUSTICE THOMAS, THEY'RE BOTH IN THEIR 70s, I THINK, IF DONALD TRUMP WINS ANOTHER STINT IN THE WHITE HOUSE, THEY WOULD CONSIDER RETIRING, AND IF HE CAN REPLACE BOTH OF THEM, IT WOULD STILL BE A 6-3 COURT, BUT IT WOULD BE A 6-3 COURT SORT OF CEMENTED CONSERVATIVE FOR DECADES, WHICH IS A VERY DIFFERENT FORECAST THAN IN JOE BIDEN WINS.

>> IT'S INTERESTING, GIVEN WHAT STEVEN JUST LAID OUT, JESSICA, THAT RUNNING UP TO THE 2020 ELECTION, THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK AMONG MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, SPECIFICALLY CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC NOMINEES AT THE TIME, WHO WERE CANDIDATES, SORRY, WHO SUGGESTED PACKING THE COURT, ADDING MORE JUSTICES COULD BE THE SOLUTION.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD THAT AT YOU WILL -- AT ALL THIS YEAR, AND I'M WONDERING IF THAT STRIKES YOU.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE HAVEN'T BEEN HEARING MUCH ABOUT THAT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THUS FAR.

IT'S POSSIBLE THAT IN THE FINAL MONTHS THAT THAT COULD BE SOMETHING WE SEE DISCUSSION ABOUT.

I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH TRACTION THAT GETS WITH REGULAR PEOPLE.

I DO THINK TALKING ABOUT THE COURT AND JUST HIGHLIGHTING FOR VOTERS THAT THE PRESIDENT IS THE PERSON WHO NOMINATES MEMBERS OF THE COURT, OBVIOUSLY THE SENATE HAS TO CONFIRM THEM, BUT REALLY HIGHLIGHTING FOR VOTERS WHAT'S AT STAKE.

AND HOW THE LEGACY, THE LONGEST LASTING IMPACTS OF A PRESIDENCY CAN BE THE JUSTICES APPOINTED TO THE SUPREME COURT BY THE PRESIDENT, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT WITH THE TRUMP APPOINTEES ON THE COURT NOW, AND SO I THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN TO BE HIGHLIGHTING THAT ISSUE FOR VOTERS, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THESE VERY IMPORTANT DECISIONS COMING DOWN IN THESE FINAL WEEKS OF THE TERM, HOPING THAT THIS WILL RESONATE WITH VOTERS AS SOMETHING THAT THEY CARE ABOUT, EVEN IF THEY MIGHT DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT ON SOME ECONOMIC ISSUES OR OTHER POLICY ISSUES.

PERHAPS WHO'S ON THE COURT FOR THE DECADES TO COME AND THE RIGHTS AT STAKE IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD DRIVE PEOPLE TO THE POLLS WHO OTHERWISE MIGHT STAY HOME OR PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDECIDED TO MAKE A DECISION.

>> AND, STEVEN, FINALLY, THE ISSUE OVER ETHICS, OBVIOUSLY, IS WEIGHING IN ON DISAPPROVAL NUMBERS HERE THAT AMERICANS FEEL FOR THE SUPREME COURT RIGHT NOW.

THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF HEADLINES AND STORIES WRITTEN THE PAST FEW YEARS, EVEN THE PAST FEW MONTHS ABOUT CERTAIN ACTIONS THAT SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WIVES HAVE TAKEN POLITICALLY, WHETHER IT'S FLAGS FOR JUSTICE ALITO'S WIFE THAT RAISE EYEBROWS OR CLARENCE THOMAS NOT RECUSING HIMSELF FROM CERTAIN CASES OR NOT BEING FORTHCOMING ON TRIPS OR GIFTS THAT HE RECEIVED.

HOW DOES THE FACTOR OF OBJECTIVITY OR ETHICS AS A WHOLE FACTOR INTO THE LOWER APPROVAL RATINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING FOR THE SUPREME COURT?

>> I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY PART OF IT.

ALTHOUGH THE REAL DECLINE IN POPULARITY ON THE COURT, AND I THINK HAPPENED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WHEN THE DOBBS LEAK OCCURRED AND THEN WHEN ROE V. WADE WAS OFFICIALLY OVERTURNED TWO YEARS AGO, AND THE GUN RIGHTS RULING THAT CAME A COUPLE OF DAYS EARLIER, I THINK IT IS MORE ABOUT THE JURISPRUDENCE.

IT DEFINITELY IS NOT A GOOD LOOK FOR CERTAIN JUSTICES TO BE TAKING GIFTS IN THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OVER THEIR CAREERS, AND EVEN IF THEY'RE TECHNICALLY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THINGS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PUT THE FLAG UP THEMSELVES OR THE MULTIPLE FLAGS, HAVING THE APPEARANCE OF A JUSTICE'S HOME OR REALLY TWO HOMES WITH VERY PARTISAN FLAGS FLYING HAS GOT TO CONTRIBUTE TO JUST HIS SENSE OF UNEASE ABOUT -- THE SUPREME COURT CALLS THE OTHER BRANCHES THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, THE POLITICAL BRANCHES.

BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S AS MUCH A DISTINCTION AS ONE WOULD HOPE BETWEEN THE JUDICIAL, SUPPOSEDLY NONPOLITICAL BRANCH AND THE OTHER TWO BRANCHES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> YEAH, OPTICS AND ACTIONS DO MATTER.

JESSICA ROTH, STEVEN MAZIE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US THE PROGRAM.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> WELL, ACROSS THE WORLD, BILLIONS ARE FEELING THE HEAT.

TEMPERATURES SOARING TO FATAL LEVELS IN INDIA, GREECE, AND NOW THE UNITED STATES AND SAUDI ARABIA.

HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE HAVE DIED DURING THE ANNUAL PILL RIMMAGE MADE BY TO MECCA.

SCOTT McCLAIN HAS THE DETAILS IN THIS REPORT.

>> Reporter: THE STONING OF THE DEVIL, ONE OF THE KEY RITUALS OF THE PILGRIMAGE.

WITH TEMPERATURES UNUSUALLY HIGH, EVEN FOR THIS TIME OF YEAR, THE TEMPTATION HERE, A MUCH SIMPLER ONE, WATER ONLY GOES SO FAR WHEN IT'S 120 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT.

H HAMID FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY, LIKE MANY SHE GAVE UP ON THE WAY THERE.

>> WE THOUGHT WE WERE ABOUT TO DIE.

WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE STRENGTH TO REACH THE STEELS DUE TO THE EXTREME HEAT.

>> Reporter: THE SOARING TEMPERATURES MAKING THIS YEAR'S PILGRIMAGE EXCEPTIONALLY DEADLY.

BODIES ON THE SIDES OF THE ROADS, THEIR FACES COVERED.

IN SOME CASES, THEY LOOKED SIMPLY ABANDONED.

>> MOST OF THE PEOPLE THERE DIED ON THE ROADSIDE, AND SOME WERE FAI FAINTED DUE TO THE HEAT AND HEATSTROKE.

THEY SHOULD MAKE SUCH ARRANGEMENTS DURING THE SUMMER SEASON, THE HOT SEASON IN THE SUMMER, THEY SHOULD ARRANGE RED CROSS TRANSPORTATION.

>> SAUDI ARABIA SAYS IT DID MAKE SOME ARRANGEMENTS TO DEAL WITH THE HEAT, DEPLOYING 1,600 SOLDIERS ALONG WITH 5,000 VOLUNTEERS.

INSTALLING DOZENS OF AIR-CONDITIONED TENTS AND OVERHEAD WATER SPRINKLERS TO COOL DOWN CROWDS.

BUT MANY ARE TRAVELING ON TOURIST VISAS, RATHER THAN HODGE SPECIFIC ONES THAT DON'T GET ACCESS TO THESE AMENITIES.

THEY ADD TO THE NEARLY 2 MILLION PILGRIMS EXPECTED.

THE HEAT A DEADLY COMBINATION.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED.

THE AMBULANCES WERE OVERWHELMED.

YOU WOULD TALK TO SOMEONE, AND SUDDENLY THEY WOULD DIE.

IT WAS A VERY HOT DAY.

>> Reporter: THE HOJ MAY BE OFFICIALLY OVER, BUT SAUDI ARABIA YET TO RELEASE NUMBERS OF INJURED OR DEAD, THE NUMBER OF VICTIMS MAY STILL YET SHARPLY RISE.

>> SCOTT McCLAIN ROOEPORTING THERE.

THIS EXTREME WEATHER IS A SIGN OF OUR RAPIDLY WARMING PLANET.

WHAT IS BEING DONE TO PREVENT CLIMATE CATASTROPHE.

A REPORT BY THE ENERGY INSTITUTE FIND FINDING THAT DESPITE A RISE IN RENEWABLES, JOINING ME FOR NOW IS BRADLEY HORTON, A CLIMATE SCIENTIST FOR COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY'S CLIMATE SCHOOL.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

FIRST, IF WE CAN JUST GET YOUR REACTION TO WHAT WE SAW THERE IN SAUDI ARABIA.

GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL SAYING THEY DEPLOYED 1,600 SOLDIERS, THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS, ISSUING A STATEMENT SAYING, QUOTE, THE STATE DID NOT FAIL, BUT THERE WAS A MISJUDGMENT ON THE PART OF PEOPLE WHO DID NOT APPRECIATE THE RISKS.

AS WE CONTINUE TO SEE TEMPERATURES CLIMB AT EVENTS LIKE THESE TRAGICALLY OVER THE YEARS AND TO BE EXPECTED IN THE CAREERS TO COME, WHAT MORE RESPONSIBILITY CAN STATES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TAKE ON?

>> YEAH, I THINK TOWARDS YOUR POINT, SOCIETY REALLY IS SHOWING THAT IT CAN'T KEEP UP RIGHT NOW WITH THE SCALE OF THESE EMERGING HEAT CHALLENGES AND CHALLENGES WITH OTHER TYPES OF EXTREME EVENTS.

THEY'RE HAPPENING SIMULTANEOUSLY, FOR LONGER DURATION, AND MORE EXPENINTENSE THEY HAVE IN THE PAST, AND WE'RE HAVING TROUBLE KEEPING UP.

SOLUTIONS, OBVIOUSLY THE FIRST THING WE HAVE TO DO IS DRAMATICALLY REDUCE OUR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

WE NEED TO RAPIDLY UPSCALE THE USE OF RENEWABLES TO ELECTRIFY OUR SYSTEMSMEN.

WE NEED TO DO MUCH MORE IN PROTECTING PEOPLE WHEN THESE HEAT EVENTS STRIKE.

>> OBVIOUSLY FOSSIL FUELS IS A PRIME FACTOR HERE.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME ROW MANHATTAN SIM OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, THERE COULD BE A WAY TO ENGINEER OUR WAY OUT OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

OBVIOUSLY IT'S AN IMPORTANT TOOL, IT'S HARD TO SCALE, AND IT'S CLEAR THAT ACTIONS TAKEN BY GOVERNMENTS, BY INDIVIDUALS, IS REALLY WHAT'S GOING TO MAKE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT OF CHANGES.

JUST POLITICALLY, IN YOUR MIND, DOES A CARBON TAX, IS THAT THE THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY AT ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE?

>> SO MY PERSONAL OPINION IS THAT THIS IS AN ALL OF THE ABOVE SOLUTIONS NEEDED.

ALL HANDS ON DECK.

WE NEED TO DROP OUR EMISSIONS SOMETHING ON THE ORDER OF 90% OR SO.

JUST WITHIN THE NEXT GENERATION OR SO.

AND A CHALLENGE THAT BIG IS GOING TO REQUIRE HUGE POLICY STEPS.

WE NEED TO GET RID OF ALL THE SUBSIDIES THAT EXIST FOR FOSSIL FUELS.

WE NEED MAJOR PRIVATE SECTOR INVESTMENT IN SOME NEW TECHNOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS.

AND, YES, WE NEED TO SEE INDIVIDUALS ALSO TAKING SOME ADDITIONAL STEPS TO REDUCE THEIR EMISSIONS TOO.

>> SADLY, YOU AND I HAVE BEEN HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.

WE HAD THEM LAST SUMMER.

WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO.

I I MEAN, IT IS STRIKING THAT GIVEN THE HEAT NOW JUST TO FACTOR IN THAT YEARS TO COME, THIS WILL BE A COOLER JUNE, MOST LIKELY, THAN JUNE IN 10, 15, 20 YEARS FROM NOW.

ARE YOU SURPRISED, THOUGH, THAT THESE NUMBERS, THESE RECORDS ARE BEING HIT THIS EARLY IN THE SUMMER BECAUSE WE'VE TRADITIONALLY HAD THESE TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS LATER ON COME, YOU KNOW, MID TO LATE AUGUST.

>> I AM SURPRISED AND I THINK THE BROADER SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY IS AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAY, WE'RE BARELY INTO JUNE.

SUMMER JUST OFFICIALLY STARTING IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE, SO WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS NOT JUST THAT DURING THE HARDEST SUMMER IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE, WHICH IN MOST PLACES IS AROUND JULY OR SO, WE'RE NOT JUST SEEING THOSE DAYS GETTING HOTTER, BUT IT'S THAT EXPANSION OF THE SEASON, RIGHT, WHICH POSES A LOT OF ADDITIONAL THREATS.

WE FIND THAT IN SOME PARTS OF THE WORLD, PEOPLE ARE STILL IN SCHOOL, RIGHT, WHEN THESE EXTREME HEAT WAVES ARE HITTING, POSING THREATS TO CHILDREN, AND REALLY FUNDAMENTAL, EVEN THEIR ABILITY TO LEARN, IN THESE REALLY HIGH TEMPERATURES.

ALSO COOLING CENTERS MAY NOT BE OPEN YET, SO A LOT OF OUR CALENDARS AND SOCIETAL STRUCTURES AREN'T ALIGNED WITH THESE RAPID CHANGES AND THE FREQUENCY AND INTENSITY OF HEAT WAVES AND OTHER TYPES OF EXTREMES.

I AM VERY CONCERNED.

>> WE KNOW THAT EXTREME HEAT IS ACTUALLY MORE DEADLY AND MORE DANGEROUS THAN TORNADOES, HURRICANES COMBINED.

EXPLAIN WHY, PHYSICALLY, AND FOR SOCIETY, EXTREME HEAT IS THE MOST DANGEROUS OF ALL FORMS OF EXTREME WEATHER.

>> YEAH, I THINK A SMALL PART TO MENTION FIRST OF THE EXPLANATION IS THAT HEAT IS A BIT MORE SUBTLE, RIGHT?

WE CAN'T VISUALLY SEE IT THE WAY WE CAN SEE THAT REALLY HEAVY RAIN EVENT, RIGHT, OR THAT TORNADO, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO I THINK THAT DOES TO SOME EXTENT AFFECT PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO PREPARE, BUT MOST FUNDAMENTALLY AS YOU'RE GETTING TO, THE ISSUE ARE BASIC HUMAN PHYSIOLOGY, RIGHT?

WE AS MAMMALS NEED TO SHED A LOT OF HEAT, RIGHT, EVERYTHING FROM THINKING TO WORKING OUTDOORS TO JUST BASICALLY MAINTAINING OUR BODIES, PRODUCES HEAT AND ENERGY, SO WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO SWEAT EFFECTIVELY, AND AS WE SEE TEMPERATURES GETTING HIGHER AND HIGHER IN THE SUBTLE GRADUAL WAY, WE'RE LOSING IN THESE REALLY EXTREME EVENTS, THE ABILITY TO FUNCTION.

WE SEE LONG-TERM EFFECTS ON OUR ABILITY TO LEARN.

PEOPLE WITH PREEXISTING HEALTH CONDITIONS, RESPIRATORY, CARDIOVASCULAR, RENAL, UNDERGREAT STRESS, THE ELDERLY UNDER GREAT STRESS AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE, ALL OF THESE OUTDOOR LABORERS, FARMS, AND CONSTRUCTION, THIS IS A REALLY FUNDAMENTAL THREAT, AND NOT SOMETHING THERE'S AN EASY FIX FOR.

THERE ARE IMPORTANT ADAPTATION STRATEGIES UNDERAWAY.

>> AND HEAT WAVES ONE WOULD THINK ARE FLEETING, HERE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS, AND YOU GET RELIEF.

THAT'S DIFFERENT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A HEAT DOME THAT COULD SIT OVER A LARGE PORTION OF LAND FOR DAYS, WEEKS, EVEN.

ARE WE SEEING MORE HEAT DOMES OR DOES THIS SEEM TO BE A RECENTLY PHENOMENON THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS?

>> I THINK THE FIRST THING TO POINT OUT IS THAT JUST THIS RISING TIDE OF ALL DAYS DURING THE YEAR WARMING, EVEN IF WE DIDN'T SEE MORE HEAT DOMES PER SE GIVES YOU MORE HEAT WAVES, LONGER DURATION HEAT WAVES AND MORE RISKS.

AS YOU'VE ALLUDED TO, SCIENTISTS ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING AT WHETHER WE'RE SEEING BIGGER CHANGES, THE KINDS OF HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEMS OR HEAT DOMES THAT COULD GET ESTABLISHED IN A REGION AND NOT SORT OF GRADUALLY MOVE OUT WEST TO EAST AS MOST OF US AND SAY THE U.S. OR EUROPE OR ASIA TEND TO THINK OF STORMS MOVING, OR WEATHER SYSTEMS MOVING IN SUMMER WHEN THESE HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEMS GET LOCKED OVER A PLACE, YOU'RE JUST BAKING UNDER THAT SUNLIGHT.

YOU HAVE SINKING AIR CAUSING MORE WARMING OR PREVENTING CLOUDS AND RAIN.

RESEARCH IS BEGINNING TO SUGGEST THAT A CHANGING CLIMATE COULD SET UP CONDITIONS THAT ENABLE MORE OF THOSE HEAT DOMES TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND TO GET LOCKED IN PLACE, WHICH CAUSES FEEDBACKS WHERE YOU QUICKLY DRY OUT SOIL, WHICH CAUSES MORE WARMING, WHICH CAN THEN ALSO SET THE STAGE, IS SETTING THE STAGE FOR THESE TERRIBLE WILDFIRES WE'RE SEEING, AND MAJOR CROP LOSSES AS WELL, IN ADDITION TO THE HUMAN IMPACTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> WE'RE SEEING THE LARGEST TROPICAL WETLANDS IN BRAZIL ON FIRE AS WELL.

IS THAT ALL RELATED?

>> IT'S TERRIFYING.

INDIVIDUAL CASES, WE HAVE TO LEAVE TO THE EXPERTS.

I CAN TELL YOU FOR SURE THAT CONNECTING THE DOTS AROUND THE GLOBE, WHAT WE'RE LEARNING IS THAT JUST, YOU KNOW, THE SEEMINGLY SMALL SHIFTS IN THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT 2 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT OF GLOBAL WARNING THAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED.

IT SOUNDS LIKE NOTHING, WHAT WE'RE LEARNING IS THAT THAT LITTLE BIT OF WARMING IS DRYING OUT ALL OF THESE ENVIRONMENTS BECAUSE THAT WARMER AIR IS SUCKING ADDITIONAL MOISTURE OUT OF THE VEGETATION, OUCHT OF THE SOILS, OUT OF THE WETLANDS, WE HAVE CHANGES IN WEATHER PATTERNS THAT YOU ALLUDED TO, THINGS LIKE HEAT DOMES, WE START TO SEE THE POTENTIAL FOR THINGS WE CALL NONLINEAR IMPACTS THAT CAN BE TRULY CATASTROPHIC FOR ECOSYSTEMS IN WHICH SOCIETY ISN'T CLOSE TO PREPARED FOR.

>> ADD TO THAT, WE'RE EXPECTING AN ACTIVE HURRICANE SEASON AS WELL.

WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN THE ATLANTIC HURRICANE SEASON'S FIRST NAMED STORM IN MEXICO, SO BRADLEY, I HOPE YOU'RE AROUND THIS SUMMER.

WE'LL BE CALLING ON YOU QUITE OFTEN TO JOIN US AND EXPLAIN EVERYTHING FOR US.

APPRECIATE THE TIME TODAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WELL, WE TURN NOW TO THE ISSUE OF POVERTY IN AMERICA WHICH OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES IS OFTEN RACIALIZED AND MARGINALIZED AS A BLACK ISSUE IGNORING MILLIONS OF IMPOVERISHED WHITE PEOPLE.

IN HIS NEW BOOK, ESTEEMED CIVIL RIGHTS CAMPAIGNER, DR. REVEREND WILLIAM BARBER AIMS TO EXPOSE MYTHS ABOUT RACE AND CLASS IN ORDER TO RECONSTRUCT AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

AND HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO DISCUSS THE CAUSES OF POVERTY AND THE POLICIES THAT CAN ADDRESS IT.

>> REVEREND DR. WILLIAM BARBER, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, GLAD TO BE HERE WITH YOU.

>> YOU HAVE WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED "WHITE POVERTY," IT'S BASED ON A LOT OF TRAVELS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

VERY VIVID.

WHY IS A BLACK MAN WRITING A BOOK CALLED "WHITE POVERTY."

>> YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOOK, I OWN BEING BLACK, I ALSO OWN THE EARLY STRUGGLE MY FATHER WENT THROUGH WHEN HE TRIED TO GET IN THE HOSPITAL TO OWN ALL THAT I AM.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IN AMERICA IS I'M A BLACK MAN WRITING ABOUT WHITE POVERTY BECAUSE I BELIEVE THE MYTHOLOGY AROUND POVERTY, THE RACIST IMAGES THAT ARE OFTEN PUT IN FRONT ANYTIME WE TRY TO DEAL WITH POVERTY, BLACK MOTHERS ON WELFARE, DOMINATE THE MYTHOLOGICAL IMAGINATIONS OF AMERICA, AND NOT ONLY DEMEANS BLACK PEOPLE, TO SUGGEST THAT POVERTY IS A BLACK ISSUE, WHAT IT DOES IS IT LEAVES OUT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF WHITE PEOPLE.

UNTIL WE FACE THE REALITY OF WHITE POVERTY IN AMERICA AND ALL POVERTY IN AMERICA, THIS BOOK IS WRITTEN TO SAY, WE MUST TRULY LOOK AT ALL OF THE POOR IN OUR NATION.

NOT MAKE IT A MARGINAL ISSUE BUT A CENTRAL ISSUE BECAUSE IN THE RICHEST NATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, THE POVERTY THAT WE HAVE NOW THAT YOU CAN CHANGE, THAT'S ABOLISHABLE IS ONE OF OUR GREATEST IMMORAL REALITIES.

>> YOU WRITE THAT THE NUMBERS THAT WE USE, THE NAMES THAT WE USE ON POVERTY ARE NOT ONLY A LIE, YOU CALL THEM A DAMN LIE, EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.

>> WELL, IT'S REALLY BOTHERSOME, PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION, PUBLIC POLICY, WHEN YOU TALK TO THE AVERAGE PERSON, A GOVERNMENT PERSON, THEY'LL TELL YOU, POVERTY IS 30 SOME MILLION PEOPLE.

OUR NATION ACTUALLY SAYS IF A PERSON MAKES 7.25 AN HOUR THEY'RE NOT POOR.

WE KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE.

WE LOOK AT THOSE IN POEFVERTY, THERE WASN'T GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE, IMPOVERISHED, MAKE LESS THAN 15, $16 AN HOUR, LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE.

WE HAVE NOT RAISED THE MINIMUM WAGE FOR 14 YEARS, SINCE 2009.

WAITERS AND WAITRESSES MAKE $2.13 AN HOUR BY LAW, BUT WHAT YOU RECK ANYTHING IS THE POVERTY NUMBERS ARE MUCH HIGHER.

IN FACT, OUR NUMBERS SHOW THEY'RE AROUND 135 MILLION POOR AND LOW WAGE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, AND EVERY TIME WE SUGGEST ANYWAY THERE'S 30 SOME MILLION, PRIMARILY A BLACK OR BROWN ISSUE, IT IS A LIE.

IT'S A DAMN LIE IN THE SENSE THAT THE ANCIENT PROPHETS DAMN SITUATIONS SAID THEY WERE JUST WRONG, AND IT'S A LIE.

POVERTY IS NOT ABOUT ANOMALY.

IT'S A FEATURE, IT'S A FEATURE OF OUR ECONOMIC SYSTEM.

OVER 41% OF OUR ADULTS ARE POOR AND OR LOW WEALTH, AND 50% OF OUR CHILDREN, AND WE MUST DEAL WITH IT WHOLLY BY RECOGNIZING IT.

>> YOU SAY IT'S A CENTRAL FEATURE OF OUR ECONOMIC SYSTEM.

DO YOU THINK IT JUST BAKED IN TO WHAT AMERICAN CAPITALISM IS.

>> WHETHER OR NOT IT'S BAKED IN, IT'S A REALITY, CONSISTENT AND PERSISTENT.

THE REALITY IS YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR, WE HAVE THESE NUMBERS FOR POVERTY, AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH IT.

ONE GROUP, POLITICIANS WANTING TO SAY POVERTY IS THE MORAL FEELING OF POOR FOLK OR IT'S JUST A MINORITY ISSUE, PRIMARILY BLACK AND BROWN, WHEN IN FACT, IN RAW NUMBERS, THERE ARE 66 MILLION POOR AND LOW WAGE WHITE PEOPLE, SOMETHING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 26 MILLION POOR AND LOW BLACK PEOPLE.

IT IS 58 TO 60% OF BLACK PEOPLE, AND THAT 66% IS 30% OF WHITE PEOPLE, BUT THE PROBLEM IS WE DON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT THAT, AND SO WHAT WE HAVE IS A SITUATION WHERE NOW POOR PEOPLE ARE DYING AT A RATE FROM POVERTY ACCORDING TO A RECENT STUDY OF 800 PEOPLE A DAY AND OVER 290 SOME THOUSAND PEOPLE A YEAR ARE DYING FROM UNNECESSARY, ABOLISHABLE POEFRLT.

T POVERTY.

THE FACT THAT WE CAN HAVE TIME AND TIME AGAIN, PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, SENATE ELECTIONS AND THE DEBATES GO ON AND ON, AND WE NEVER TALK ABOUT THE 41% OF OUR AMERICANS THAT ARE IN POVERTY, THERE'S NOT A STATE WHERE POOR PEOPLE ARE NOT AT LEAST 30% OF THE POPULATION, AND SOME STATES OVER 40%, AND WE DON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT IT.

WE DON'T EVEN DEBATE IT.

THAT'S WHAT WE MEAN BY CENTRAL, BUT IT'S BEING STREETED LIKE IT'S A MINOR ISSUE WHEN IT'S IN FACT A MAJOR ISSUE.

>> ONE OF THE CORE THEMES OF YOUR BOOK IS A CORE THEME OF POLICY IN MYSTERY HISTORY, WHICH IS THE NOTION THAT BLACKS AND WHITES COULD BE TOGETHER IN A WAR ON POVERTY AS IN THE OLD PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENTS AND WHAT DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING TRIED TO DO, BUT NOWADAYS, BLACKS AND WHITES ARE PITTED AGAINST EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF UNIFYING IN A WAR ON POVERTY.

WHY HAS THAT HAPPENED?

>> WELL, WHAT WE SAY IN THE BOOK IS IT'S NOT DECENT OR NEW.

IT'S A CONTINUUM UNDER THE DIVIDE, THERE WAS THE WELFARE RIGHTS OF WOMEN.

WHITE WOMEN, DR. KING SAID WE NEEDED A POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS DR. KING TALKED ABOUT, MIRACLES THAT EXISTED, ONE FLOWING WITH MILK AND HONEY, PROSPERITY, AND THEN THE OTHER ONES FULL OF PAIN.

WHAT WE KNOW IS DOWN THROUGH HISTORY, WHETHER IT WAS THE EFFORT TO BREAK APART THE COORDINATION OF BLACK, FORMER SLAVES, AND WHITE PEOPLE THAT CAME TOGETHER AFTER THE CIVIL WAR TO RECONSTRUCT THE MIRACLE OR WHETHER WE SAW THE EFFORTS OF THE SOUTHERN STRATEGY OF LATE '60s THAT DECIDED THEY WERE GOING TO ENGAGE IN INTENTIONAL POLARIZATION, AND THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SPLIT A BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE, SO THOSE PERSONS WOULD NOT COME TOGETHER AND FORM A POWERFUL VOTING BLOC THAT COULD SHIFT THE ECONOMIC ARCHITECTURE OF THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE SEEN DOWN THROUGH HISTORY, THERE'S AN ATTEMPT TO SEPARATE THE PEOPLE THAT SHOULD BE TOGETHER.

IN OUR BOOK, WE TALK ABOUT MYTHS.

ONE MYTH IS THAT PALE SKIN IS A SHARED INTEREST.

IN OTHER WORDS, THAT SKIN COLOR OUT WEIGHS THE ABILITY TO UNIFY AROUND POLICY OR SAVINGS THEIR LIVES.

WE BELIEVE THAT'S A MYTHOLOGY.

ONLY BLACK FOLK WANT CHANGE IN AMERICA.

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS OVER 60% OF AMERICANS WANT TO SEE US RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO A MINIMUM WAGE.

>> IN YOUR BOOK, YOU HAVE A LOT OF EXAMPLES POLITICALLY WHERE YOU'RE AROUND THE COUNTRY AND YOU CAN SEE HOW LOW INCOME W WHITES AND LOW INCOME BLACKS COULD WORK TOGETHER ON POLICY, AND HAVE VOTED TOGETHER AT TIMES.

DESCRIBE THAT AND WHY IS THAT NOT MORE COMMON?

>> WELL, WHAT WE'RE SEEING, AND IT'S NOT OFTEN TALKED ABOUT, THE SWING VOTE IN THIS COUNTRY IS POOR AND LOW WAGE FOLKS.

IT'S THE LARGEST BLOC OF VOTERS WHERE YOU COULD HAVE AN EXPANSION OF THE VOTING POPULATION.

FIRST OF ALL, BLACK AND WHITE AND BROWN AND WHATNOT, POOR AND LOW WAGE PEOPLE DO VOTE, YOU OFTEN HEAR THEY DON'T, BUT THEY DO.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EXIT POLL, THEY VOTED IN THE MAJORITY FOR A PROGRESSIVE IDEA.

THEY VOTED IN THE MAJORITY FOR CANDIDATES THAT REPRESENT SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF PLUS 54%, 55%.

WHAT WE KNOW MEANS THAT SO OFTEN IS TO SUGGEST WHAT THEY DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST.

THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED TO BLACK PEOPLE, AND THEREFORE BLACK PEOPLE OR BLACK WOMEN ARE GETTING SOMETHING, AND YOU'RE LOSING SOMETHING.

AND THAT'S USED AS A WEDGE.

WHEN, IN FACT, PEOPLE FIGURE OUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE, THEY COME TOGETHER.

TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE WENT TO EASTERN KENTUCKY WHERE WHITE, HARLAN COUNTY, KENTUCKY, ACTION AND STARTED THE WAR ON POVERTY, AND I MET WITH TWO OR 300 POOR AND LOW WAGE, MOSTLY WHITE PEOPLE, WHO WERE MINORS, WHO NO LONGER HAVE HUMAN RIGHTS BECAUSE WHEN THE POWERS THAT BE ALLOWED MULTINATIONAL COMPANIES TO TAKE OVER THEIR MINES, THEY DIDN'T ENSURE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS, AND ON THAT DAY, WE PUT UP A CHART OF WHERE STATE LEGISLATUORS STOOD ON ANTI-GAY, AND ANTI-ABORTION, AND PRAYER IN SCHOOL.

THEN WE PUT UP A CHART SHOWING WHERE LEGISLATORS STOOD ON LIVING WAGES, AND UNION RATES AND LABOR RIGHTS AND HEALTH CARE.

AND WHEN WE STEPPED BACK FROM THAT CHART, ONE OF THE GUYS WHO I TALKED ABOUT IN THE BOOK SAID WE'RE BEING FOOLED.

WE'RE BEING BAMBOOZLED.

HE SAID THESE FOLK ARE COMING TO US, AND THEY'RE TELLING US THEY'RE FAMILY VALUE BECAUSE THEY'RE ANTI-GAY, AND ANTI-ABORTION, ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY'RE VOTING AGAINST OUR UNION RIGHTS, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE VOTING AGAINST HARLAN COUNTY.

IN 2018 WHEN BLACK AND WHITE FOLKS FOUND THAT OUT AND CAME TOGETHER, THEY UNSEATED AN INCUMBENT GOVERNOR, AND SEVERAL OF THOSE COUNTIES THAT WE WERE IN, THEY ACTUALLY WENT FROM RED TO BLUE.

I DON'T BELIEVE WE ACTUALLY KNOW A RED STATE OR BLUE STATE, BECAUSE WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A PUSHING OF THE ELECTORATE THAT'S POSSIBLE, AND WE HAVE CERTAINLY NEVER SEEN POOR AND LOW WAGE FOLKS VOTE AT THE SAME LEVEL THAT WEALTHY ARE VOTING OR MIDDLE CLASS ARE VOTING.

>> YEAH, BUT YOU LOOK AT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, I MEAN, EVEN DEMOCRATS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THIS MOVEMENT THEY'RE NOT DOING A LOT OF THAT TALKING.

WHY IS THAT?

>> WHICH IS WHY WE QUESTION IT, WE SAY THAT REPUBLICANS ARE WRONG, WHEN THEY SUGGEST THAT POVERTY IS A MORAL FAILING OF INDIVIDUALS AND NOT AN ISSUE OF POLICY.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MORAL YOU LIVE IF YOU ONLY MAKE $7.25 AN HOUR, YOU'RE COMING OUT POOR AND THAT'S A POLICY ISSUE.

DEMOCRATS TALK ABOUT MIDDLE CLASS AND THEY TALK ABOUT LISTING ON THE MIDDLE, AND THEY TALK ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO GET INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND WHAT WE ARE SAYING TO BOTH SIDES IS STOP TALKING AND TALK LOW WAGE PEOPLE.

>> WAIT A SECOND, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT TALKING TO THE MIDDLE CLASS THAT WAY, GETTING INTO THE MIDDLE CLASS, IT SOUND LIKE JOE BIDEN.

YOU BLAMING HIM TOO?

>> THIS IS AN AMERICAN -- HAS NOT BEEN ONE PARTICULAR PRESIDENT OR DEMONSTRATION.

WHAT THIS BOOKS POINTS OUT IS FAR TOO LONG.

AND WE MAY FALL INTO SOME MARGINAL ISSUE, WHEN WE DO TALK ABOUT IT, WE TEND TO MAKE UP A WORD, WE TEND TO BLACKIZE IT.

AND WHEN WE DO TALK ABOUT IT, IT MIGHT BE ONE DAY ON THE NEWS, AND THEN IT GOES AWAY OR WE ONLY TALK ABOUT HOMELESSNESS.

WHAT WE'RE ARGUING, WHETHER IT'S BIDEN OR TRUMP OR OBAMA OR CLINTON OR BUSH OR WHOEVER COMES NEXT, THAT WE AS AMERICA MUST FACE THIS ISSUE.

WE MUST FACE POVERTY, WE MUST FACE THE WOUNDS OF POVERTY, TO BLACK PEOPLE AND WHITE PEOPLE, WHEN EIGHT DEMOCRATS AND ALL THE REPUBLICANS VOTED AGAINST RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE TO $15 AN HOUR, WE DIDN'T CARE IF THEY WERE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.

THAT WAS WRONG.

NOT ONLY WAS IT WRONG BASED ON OUR CONSTITUTIONAL CLAIM OF JUSTICE, IT'S WRONG BASED ON OUR RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS, AND ALL OF THESE POLITICIANS THAT PUT THEIR HANDS ON THE BIBLE, AND SWORE TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION.

THAT BIBLE SAYS WHETHER IT'S THE SCRIPT TORS, THE JEWISH, CHRISTIANS, ALL HONOR, OR WHETHER IT'S FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT, THAT THE POOR, MUST BE AT THE CENTER OF HOW HANDLE AND BILL OUR SOCIETY.

THERE'S A GREAT SCRIPTURE I USE OFTEN, ISAIAH CHAPTER 10, VERSUS 1 THROUGH 3.

THOSE WHO LEGISLATE EVIL AND ROB THE POOR OF THEIR RIGHTS AND MAKE WOMEN AND CHILDREN PLAY.

BOTH THE BIBLE AND CONSTITUTION, POOR PEOPLE, THOSE ON THE MARGIN HAVE A RIGHT TO JUSTICE, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO JUST SOCIETY.

THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO THE KIND OF POLICIES THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO COME OUT OF THE UNNECESSARY, DEATH KILLING REALITY OF POVERTY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT POLICIES THAT ARE NEEDED TO BRING US OUT OF POVERTY.

YOU TALKED ABOUT MINIMUM WAGE.

THAT'S ONE.

ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC POLICIES LIKE THAT OR IS THERE SOMETHING LARGER YOU'RE PUSHING FOR?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THEM.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE, ON JUNE 29th, WE'RE HAVING A MASS POOR PEOPLE, LOW WAGE MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND TO THE POLL AND THERE ARE POOR AND LOW WAGE PEOPLE IN THE NATION'S CAPITOAL AND TENS AND THOUSANDS ONLINE THAT WILL TAKE THE MIC.

NOT PEOPLE SPEAKING FOR THEM.

WE'LL HAVE WHITE WOMEN FROM WEST VIRGINIA, AND BLACK WOMEN FROM THE DELTAS STANDING TOGETHER, AND THEY'RE GOING TO OUTLINE 17 AGENDA ITEMS THAT WE'RE SAYING TO BOTH PARTIES, IF YOU WANT THESE VOTES, THEY ALREADY HAVE TOLD YOU THAT THE NUMBER ONE REASON PEOPLE DON'T VOTE IS THEY DON'T HEAR THE REALITY TALKED ABOUT.

THEN YOU NEED TO SAY IF I GET THE MAJORITY, IF MY GROUP GETS THE MAJORITY, HERE'S WHAT WE WILL DO.

WE WILL STAND AGAINST POVERTY BEING THE FOURTH LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THAT REALITY.

WE WILL PUSH FOR A LIVING WAGE, OF AT LEAST $15 AN HOUR, AN INDEX SO WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP COMING BACK TO IT.

WE WILL GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL.

WE WILL ENSURE THE FULL FUNDING OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.

WE WILL ENSURE THAT WE'LL DEAL WITH ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE BECAUSE POOR AND LOW WAGE PEOPLE FEEL THE BRUNT OF CATASTROPHES.

WE WILL RESTORE THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND EXPAND VOTING RIGHTS BECAUSE VOTING RIGHTS WAS NOT A BLACK ISSUE, IT'S AN AMERICAN ISSUE.

WHEN VOTING RIGHTS ARE SUPPRESSED, IT HURTS BLACK PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE, WORKING PEOPLE, SO WE NEED A RESTORATION OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, WE NEED TO EXPAND VOTING RIGHTS AND WE NEED TO BE AGAINST VOTER SUPPRESSION.

WE NEED TO SUPPORT, AND THEY NEED TO SAY IT WILL GUARANTEE THEY WILL SUPPORT WOMEN'S RIGHTS BECAUSE WHEN THERE'S A ON WOMEN'S RIGHT,S, POOR WOMEN GET HURT THE MOST, AND SO WE HAVE A 17 POINT AGENDA, IN FACT, WE HAVE THE THIRD RECONSTRUCTION ENDING POVERTY RESOLUTION, THAT WAS PROMOTED BY SEVERAL LEGISLATIVE, OVER 30 SIGNATURES, AND IT LAYS OUT, IT SAYS WHO HAS THE RESOLVE TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

DURING COVID, WE PASSED CHILD INCOME TAX CREDIT, AND 60% OF CHILD POVERTY WAS DONE AWAY WITH.

WE GAVE PEOPLE EXTENDED MEDICAID EXPANSION, AND WE SAW MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NOW HAVE HEALTH CARE.

WHAT DO WE DO AFTER ABOUT SIX MONTHS, THOSE SAME LEGISLATURES TURNED AROUND AND TOOK BACK CHILD INCOME TAX.

WE TOOK BACK MEDICAID EXPANSION AND NOW MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE BEING THROWN OFF THE MEDICAID ROLLS AND THOSE CHILDREN ARE THROWN RIGHT BACK INTO POVERTY, BUT WHAT IT SHOWED IS WE CAN FIX THIS IF WE ARE WILLING TO ENGAGE WITH POLICY.

AND LASTLY, WE SHOWED THAT IT DOESN'T COST US -- IT ACTUALLY COSTS US MORE TO ALLOW THIS KIND OF POVERTY TO EXIST.

>> REVEREND BARBER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>>> A POIGNANT CONVERSATION ABOUT RACE AND CLASS IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND REVEREND BARBER'S BOOK, WHITE POVERTY, EXPOSING MYTHS ABOUT RACE AND CLASS CAN RECONSTRUCT AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IS OUT NOW.

>>> NOW TO THE CHILDREN'S BOOKS THAT MANY OF US GREW UP LOVING.

FOR MILLIONS, IT WAS JUDITH CARR'S CLASSIC TALES INCLUDING "THE TIGER WHO CAME TO TEA" WHICH SHE WROTE AND ILLUSTRATED HERSELF.

SHE CLIMBED UP AND DOWN FLIGHTS OF STAIRS WITH EASE AND WAS STILL WRITING AND DRAWING TIRELESSLY AT THE AGE OF 94.

>> YOU'RE SPEEDIER THAN ME, JUDITH UP THESE STAIRS.

>> I'M USED TO THEM, AND I CAN PULL MYSELF UP.

>> HOW OFTEN?

HOW MANY TIMES A DAY?

>> DOZENS, I THINK.

>> IT KEEPS YOU FIT AND HEALTHY?

>> IT'S GOOD FOR THE BRAIN, THEY SAY.

>> GOOD FOR THE BRAIN.

>> YEP.

>> WOW.

WELL, SADLY THE AUTHOR PASSED AWAY FIVE YEARS AGO, SO WE WANTED TO REVISIT PARTS OF CARR'S HEARTWARMING CONVERSATION WITH CHRISTIANE.

>> WHAT WAS IT, THEN, ALL OF THOSE YEARS AGO THAT MADE YOU THINK A TIGER, A SCARY BIG MONSTER TIGER WAS SOMEHOW GOING TO BE A CHARACTER THAT CHILDREN FELL IN LOVE WITH?

>> WELL, BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK A SCARY MIGHTY, BAD TIGER, I THOUGHT A SOFT, FURRY, ORANGE, STRIPY, BLACK AND WHITE TIGER.

AND THAT'S WHAT MY DAUGHTER THOUGHT AS WELL WHEN WE SAW THEM IN THE ZOO.

AND I DIDN'T MENTION THE FACT THAT THEY BIT PEOPLE.

I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT.

BUT USED TO SAY TALK THE TIGER.

SHE WAS TWO AND VERY BOSSY.

IT WAS VERY BORING AT HOME, AND SO WE BOTH THOUGHT IT WAS ABOUT TIME SOMEBODY CAME AND A TIGER SEEMED AS GOOD AN IDEA AS ANYTHING REALLY.

>> AND THERE 5 MILLION COPIES WERE BORN.

I MEAN, THIS BOOK ITSELF SOLD 5 MILLION COPIES AROUND THE WORLD.

DID YOU EVEN DREAM IS THAT SUCH A THING WAS POSSIBLE WHEN YOU WERE TALKING THE TIGER TO TACEY WHEN SHE WAS JUST 2 YEARS OLD.

>> IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME.

I DIDN'T DO THE BOOK UNTIL ABOUT FIVE YEARS LATER BECAUSE I WAS SO BUSY WITH THE CHILDREN.

I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED WHEN THEY SAID THEY WOULD PUBLISH IT.

>> WHAT DO YOU HOPE FAMILIES HAVE GOT FROM THESE BOOKS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M TERRIBLY PLEASED THEY LIKE THEM.

WHAT MORE CAN ONE ASK FOR, REALLY.

AND I NEVER DREAMT ANYTHING LIKE THAT COULD HAPPEN TO ME.

I WANTED ORIGINALLY, LIKE EVERYBODY WHO GOES TO SCHOOL TO BE A PAINTER, AND I JUST WANTED TO DRAW.

I STILL DO.

IT'S THE ONE THING I WANT TO DO.

AND MY MOTHER GOT QUITE WORRIED ABOUT ME, YOU KNOW, SHE AND MY BROTHER ALSO, WHO WAS A LAWYER AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED.

>> THAT YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO MAKE A LIVING?

>> NO, EXACTLY.

THE HOPE WAS TO MARRY SOMEBODY WHERE HE WOULD KEEP ME.

>> YOU DID GET MARRIED.

>> AND HE DID KEEP ME.

>> AND HE DID KEEP YOU.

>> WELL, BECAUSE YOU MAKE NO MONEY WITH PICTURE BOOKS TO START WITH.

>> AND IN THE END, YOU DID ACTUALLY MAKE A VERY GOOD LIVING WITH ALL OF THESE BOOKS AND ALL OF YOUR DRAWINGS.

>> YES, TO EVERYBODY'S SURPRISE, PARTICULARLY MINE.

>> AND POSSIBLY TO THE SURPRISE OF YOUR PARENTS AND HISTORY.

IF I COULD GO BACK ALL OF THOSE YEARS, WHEN YOU WERE BORN IN GERMANY, AND YOU WERE A KID AT THE TIME, JUST BEFORE THE WAR WAS ABOUT TO START, JUST BEFORE HITLER, WHAT WAS THAT LIKE, WHAT WAS YOUR CHILDHOOD LIKE IN GERMANY AT THAT TIME, YOUR FATHER, I BELIEVE, WAS A SATIRICAL WRITER AND GOT ON THE WRONG SIDE OF ADOLF HITLER.

>> YES, HE WARNED AGAINST HIM, AND HE MOCKED HIM, WHICH WAS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO.

VERY EARLY ON.

AND SO HE WAS WARNED BY AN UNKNOWN POLICEMAN WHO JUST RANG UP ONE DAY AND SAID GET OUT AT ONCE, THEY'RE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR PASSPORT, AND THIS WAS BEFORE HITLER HAD ACTUALLY COME TO POWER, AND HE TOOK THE NEXT TRAIN OUT OF GERMANY.

MY MOTHER DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO BECAUSE THEY HADN'T EVEN HAD TIME TO TALK, AND SHE JOINED HIM IN PRAGUE, AND HE SAID HE WANTED MY MOTHER AND BROTHER AND ME OUT OF GERMANY BEFORE THE ELECTIONS BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HITLER WOULD HANG ON TO US TO GET HIM BACK.

AND THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTIONS, ON THE 6th OF MARCH, WE HEARD FROM OUR HOUSEKEEPER WHO HAD STAYED BEHIND THAT THEY CAME TO OUR HOUSE AT 8:00 IN THE MORNING TO DEMAND ALL OF OUR PASSPORTS.

>> WOW.

>> SO MY 94 YEARS ARE BECAUSE OF THAT.

I WOULDN'T BE HERE OTHERWISE.

INCREDIBLE FORESIGHT AND LUCK.

>> WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO KEEP YOU GOING AT 94 IN THE WAY YOU'RE DOING NOW, MORE BOOKS, MORE DRAWINGS, MORE PROJECTS?

>> WELL, I LOVE TO DRAW.

THAT'S REALLY ALL IT IS.

I WAS VERY VERY HAPPILY MARRIED FOR 52 YEARS, AND OBVIOUSLY I STILL MISS MY HUSBAND, BUT THE ONLY COMPENSATION, REALLY, IS THAT I DON'T COOK.

I DON'T HAVE ANYONE TO CHAT WITH.

THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE, I CAN SPEND 24 HOURS A DAY DRAWING.

SO THAT'S AT LEAST SOMETHING.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT I DO.

WE'D BE RATHER STUPID NOT TO AT THE AGE OF 94, NOT TO FEEL THAT POSSIBLY THERE WASN'T UNLIMITED TIME LEFT.

>> WELL, DO YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU ARE INCREDIBLY YOUTHFUL AND YOUNG OF SPIRIT, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JUDITH CARR, FOR TALKING TO US.

>> THANK YOU FOR TALKING TO ME.

>> WHAT AN INCREDIBLE CONVERSATION AND INCREDIBLE LIFE.

AND FINALLY FOR US, WE WANT TO WISH YOU A HAPPY SUMMER SOLSTICE, FOR THOSE OF US IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE, IT IS THE LONGEST DAY OF THE YEAR.

IN THE UK 15,000 PEOPLE GATHERED IN HIGH SPIRITS IN THE EARLY HOUR OF THE MORNING AND WATCHED THE GOLDEN SUNRISE ABOVE THE MONUMENTAL STONE HEDGE.

THIS COMES DAYS AFTER THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITE WAS SPRAY PAINTED BY JUST STOP OIL ACTIVISTS.

>> WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

>> STILL, COME SUNRISE, CHEER REVELERS CONTINUE CARRYING ON THE TRADITION, DATING BACK MANY MILLENNIA.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP AT THE NEWS LETTER, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" ON CBS.

WE LEVER YOU NOW WITH SOME OF THOSE STUNNING SOLSTICE PICTURES.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLOOM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.