>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," A BIG WEEK IN SPORTS: NOT ON THE COURT, BUT IN THE COURT, AND ON INSTAGRAM.

WITH THE SUPREME COURT'S DECIION TO LET COLLEGES COMPENSATE N.C.A.A.

ATHLETES TO SOME DEGREE, AND WITH RAIDERS DEFENSIVE END CARL NASSIB, BECOMING THE FIRST-EVER OPENLY GAY ACTIVE PLAYER IN THE N.F.L.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF BOTH DECISIONS WITH SPORTS JOURNALISTS STEVE BUCKLEY AND HOWARD BRYANT.

THEN LATER, POLITICAL PHILOSOPHER MICHAEL SANDEL JOINS ME ON HIS LATEST BOOK: "THE TYRANNY OF MERIT," ON OUR FRAGILE DEMOCRACY AND HOW THE COUNTRY SHOULD START THINKING TO OVERCOME IT.

AND FINALLY, HOW THE BIO-MANUFACTURING BOOM IS BRINGING SOME MAJOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS TO MASSACHUSETTS, AND NOT JUST IN KENDALL SQUARE.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Braude: IT'S 2021, AND UNTIL YESTERDAY, WHEN LAS VEGAS RAIDERS DEFENSIVE END CARL NASSIB POSTED THIS TO INSTAGRAM, THE N.F.L.

HAD NEVER HAD AN OPENLY GAY ACTIVE PLAYER.

>> I JUST WANTED TO TAKE A QUICK MOMENT TO SAY THAT I'M GAY.

I'VE BEEN MEANING TO DO THIS FOR A WHILE NOW, BUT I FINALLY FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO GET IT OFF MY CHEST.

>> Braude: BEFORE HIM, JUST A HANDFUL OF FORMER N.F.L.

PLAYERS CAME OUT AFTER THEY RETIRED FROM THE LEAGUE.

IN YESTERDAY'S POST, NASSIB, WHO ALSO DONATED $100,000 TO THE TREVOR PROJECT, WHICH HELPS PREVENT SUICIDE AMONG L.G.B.T.Q.

YOUTH, SAID HE'D AGONIZED OVER THIS DECISION FOR 15 YEARS.

>> I'M A PRETTY PRIVATE PERSON.

I JUST THINK THAT REPRESENTATION AND VISIBILITY ARE SO IMPORTANT.

I ACTUALLY HOPE THAT ONE DAY VIDEOS LIKE THIS AND THE WHOLE COMING-OUT PROCESS ARE JUST NOT NECESSARY, BUT UNTIL THEN I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST AND MY PART TO CULTIVATE A CULTURE THAT'S ACCEPTING, THAT'S COMPASSIONATE.

>> Braude: SO JUST HOW BIG A DEAL IS THIS?

I'M JOINED BY FORMER "BOSTON HERALD" SPORTS COLUMNIST STEVE BUCKLEY, WHO CAME OUT PUBLICLY IN THE PAPER IN 2011.

HE NOW WRITES FOR "THE ATHLETIC."

HOWARD BRYANT WITH MEADOWLARK MEDIA.

HE'S ALSO AN NPR SPORTS COMMENTATOR AND THE AUTHOR OF "FULL DISSIDENCE: NOTES FROM AN UNEVEN PLAYING FIELD."

GOOD TO VEE YOU BOTH GENTLEMEN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: STEVE STARTING WITH YOU, YOU LIVED THIS EXPERIENCE ABOUT A DECADE AGO, OBVIOUSLY IN THE BOSTON HERALD.

WHAT DOES IT MINE BOTH IN THE NFL AND BEYOND AS YOU TOUCHED IN YOUR PIECE TODAY?

>> WELL, CERTAINLY BIGGER THAN MY OWN TEA PARTY A FEW YEARS AGO.

THE MERE FACT THAT NO ACTIVE HAD EVER DONE THIS BEFORE IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT A BIG DEAL IT IS.

WE'VE HAD LOTS OF HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE PLAYERS COME OUT, WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF FORMER NFL PLAYERS COME OUT.

BUT TO BE RIGHT IN THERE IN THE FRAY IS HISTORY-MAKING.

>> Braude: SO HOWARD DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

I HAVE TO ADMIT I NEVER HEARD OF NASSIB UNTIL YESTERDAY, FRANK REPLY AND MOST PEOPLE I KNOW DO NOT.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS MOMENT?

>> WELL, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE IF HE'S ON THE TEAM.

I THINK WE HAD THIS SITUATION SEVERAL YEARS AGO, WITH MICHAEL SAM, MICHAEL SAM ENDED UP NOT MAKING THE NFL.

THE IMPACT WAS LESSENED EVEN THOUGH, IT WAS A BIG DEAL THEN, IT'S A BIG DEAL NOW.

IT NEVER HAPPENED IN THE NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION OR HOCKEY OR YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO GLEN BURKE IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL WHICH WAS 45 YEARS AGO.

SO YOU -- THIS IS A HUGE DEAL AND IT'S NOT JUST THE TYPE OF CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAVE, WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE A GOOD PLAYER.

IT'S EVEN MORE DIFFICULT IF YOU ARE IN CARL NASSIB'S POSITION BECAUSE HE'S NOT PROTECTED BY BEING A GREAT PLAYER.

SO WE WILL FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW ACCEPTING, HAVEN'T HEARD A LOT OF PLAYERS.

I SAW RUSSELL COON COME OUT WHICH WAS BIG.

THE REALLY IMPORTANT THING IS HOW MUCH SUPPORT ARE YOU GOING TO GET IN THAT ROOM, HOW MUCH SUPPORT ARE YOU GOING TO GET WITH YOUR OPPONENTS?

IS THIS GOING TO BE A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT WHERE TEN YEARS FROM NOW HE IS GOING TO SAY, I WISH THIS WAS A LIBERATING EXPERIENCE INTUT IT WAS WORSE, IT'S A VERY BIG DEAL.

>> Braude: STEVE, I'M AMAZED, THERE HAS BEEN SOME PLAYERS, SIGNIFICANTLY HIS TEAM, THE RAIDERS PUT UP BLACK AND SILVER HEARTS, OBVIOUSLY THEIR COLORS.

THE UNION WAS THERE.

EVEN THE COMMISSIONER OF THE NFL, I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT.

>> GEORGE: ABOUT HIM SAID THE RIGHT THING.

HOW ABOUT WHEN HE GOES TO THE OFFICE, THE LOCKER ROOM OR THE FIELD, WHAT SHOULD HE EXPECT?

>> WELL, I'M STICKING TO A NARRATIVE THAT I'VE E-BEEN DISCUSSING SINCE I CAME OUT TEN YEARS AGO, AND THAT IS, THAT COMMON SENSE TELLS US, I MEAN FORGET ABOUT CLOSETED GAY FOOTBALL PLAYERS.

WE WILL LEAVE THAT ASIDE FOR THE MOMENT AND ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT EVERYBODY IN THAT ROOM HAS TO HAVE SOMEBODY IN THEIR LIVES BROTHERS, SISTERS, COUSIN, UNCLE, FORMER TEAM MATE, HIGH SCHOOL BUDDY WHO'S GAY AND ONE LIKES TO THINK THAT THEY HAVE MADE THE ACCOMMODATION ALREADY.

AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S ALWAYS A POLITICAL ELEMENT IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

THAT CAN REAR ITS HEAD AND MAYBE CERTAIN PLAYERS ARE AFRAID TO STEP OVER THAT LINE.

BUT THE OPTIMIST IN ME TELLS ME THAT THESE TEAMMATES ARE GOING TO BE EMBRACING.

THE REALIST TELLS ME, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT WON'T BE SO HAPPY ABOUT IT.

>> Braude: STAYING WITH YOU FOR A SECOND, A DECADE AGO WHEN THE NUMBER ONE PICK, BRITTANY GRONNER I BELIEVE HER NAME, CAN YOU IMAGINE IF A MAN DID SUCH A THING EVERYONE'S HEAD WOULD HAVE EXPLODED.

WHITE THERE WAS NO EXPLOSION TODAY A LOT OF WOMEN HAVE COME OUT AND HOWARD AS YOU HAVE NOTED THIS IS THE FIRST GUY.

WHY?

>> I THINK WELL, I THINK MY BUDDY SID ZIEGLER IS PROBABLY THE GUY WHO WROTE THAT.

BUT THERE IS A COWMENT IN FOOTBALL, THERE IS A CULTURE IN ALL PROFESSIONAL SPORTS, THAT CAMARADERIE THING LOCKER ROOM THING, WOMEN HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OVERCOME THAT AND MARCH FORWARD AND THEY'RE DOING THEIR THING AND MEN ARE BEHIND IN THAT.

>> Braude: ARE YOU BUYING THAT?

>> IT IS BECAUSE WE'RE GUYS, ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CHANGING CULTURE, YOU HAVE TO CHANGE CULTURE WITHIN LANGUAGE.

AND THE LANGUAGE OF SPORTS IS ALWAYS BEEN INCREDIBLY MISOGYNISTIC.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN BASED ON TOUGHNESS AND WHAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF TOUGHNESS, BEING WEAK, THINK ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT SLURS THAT WE USE TO DETERMINE WHO'S TOUGH AND WHO'S NOT.

AND THAT IS THE CENTER OF WALKING IN THAT ROOM.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S ABOUT TIME.

I THINK STEVE IS 100% RIGHT ON THIS.

IT'S LIKE WE WOULD ALWAYS TALK ABOUT WHEN SOMEBODY FINALLY CAME OUT WE WOULD SAY THINGS LIKE OH WELL THAT WAS THE WORST-KEPT SECRET RIGHT?

AND YET AT THE SAME TIME, WE SAY IT BUT WE DON'T REALLY LIVE IT.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT ROOM.

I TEND TO AGREE WITH STEVE THAT JUST GENERATIONALLY, THIS GENERATION DEALS WITH THINGS SO DIFFERENTLY.

THE OLDER GUARD, THE COACHES, THE REPORTERS, SOME OF THAT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING HOW IT PLAYS OUT BUT I THINK THAT HIS PEERS ARE MUCH MORE IN A PLACE WHERE STEVE SAID.

>> Braude: HOWARD CAN I STAY WITH YOU FOR A SECOND TALK ABOUT ANOTHER CRAFT?

I HATE TO SAY THAT A CALLER BROUGHT UP A TOPIC I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT WHICH WAS THE DISPARATE TREATMENT BETWEEN NASSIB WHO CAME OUT AND WAS CELEBRATED BY AN LARGE AND A GUY NAMED COLIN KAEPERNICK WHO WAS -- ESSENTIALLY HAD HIS JOB TAKEN AWAY.

WHY THE DIFFERENT TREATMENT OF THESE TWO COURAGEOUS COURAGEOUS SOULS?

>> THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE ISSUES, I THINK.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCES, I DON'T THINK -- BELIEVE ME I THINK IT'S A QUESTION OF TIME.

I THINK IF COFN DID THIS TEN YEARS AGO IT'S A BIGGER DEAL, IF HE DID IT 20 YEARS AGO, HE WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT 20 YEARS AGO.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TIME AND AS STEVE BROUGHT UP EARLIER, THE POLITICS AND THE POLITICAL EDGE ABOUT THIS, THERE IS NO GREATER POLITICAL ELEMENT IN SPORTS RIGHT NOW THAN RACE IN POLICING.

WHEN YOU WALK INTO THAT ROOM, ESPECIALLY THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE IT'S THE MOST CONSERVATIVE SPORT INCLUDING BASEBALL BECAUSE THE OWNERS ARE SO OUTWARDLY POLITICAL YOU'RE REALLY UP AGAINST IT IN TERMS OF THE TYPES OF SUBJECTS THAT YOU CHOOSE TO TAKE ON WHEN YOU GO UP AGAINST THAT LEAGUE.

>> Braude: GENTLEMEN, I WANTED TO SPEND A COUPLE OF MINUTES ON ANOTHER MAJOR MOMENT IN SPORTS, AGAIN DIDN'T HAPPEN IN A COURT, BUT IN A COURTROOM, UNANIMOUS RULING, ALL NINE JUSTICES CAME OUT AGAINST THE NCAA, IN THIS DISPUTE OVER WHETHER THE ORGANIZATION COULD STOP SCHOOLS IN COMPENSATING SLEETS IN SCHOOLS.

OBVIOUSLY OPENS THE DOOR FOR FUTURE CHALLENGES, TO THEIR STRICT RULES THAT PROHIBIT COLLEGE PLAYERS FROM GETTING PAID.

STEVE DID THE COURT MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION?

>> OH, YES, ABSOLUTELY.

THIS HAS BEEN EXPLODING IN MY HEAD FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS NOW.

WITH THE HYPOCRISY OF THE NCAA, BASICALLY, MAKING MONEY OFF OF THESE YOUNG ATHLETES.

AND TISK TISK TO ANY YOUNG THEET WHO IS FOUND WITHOUT A FREE MAIL OR CAR OR ANY OF THE ACCOUTERMENTS, OF AN ATHLETE, A BAD BAD DECISION AS WAS POINTED OUT BY THE DECISION THAT WOULDN'T BE ABIDED BY OR HELD UP IN ANY OTHER BUSINESS BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR BUSINESS MODEL THE NCAA WAS ALLOWED TO MAKE MONEY WHILE HAVING THESE YOUNG KIDS SUFFERING ALL KINDS OF CONSEQUENCES.

IF THEY DON'T TAKE MONEY.

AND IF THEY DO AT THE SAME TIME.

IT'S BEEN A BAD SYSTEM FOR A LONG TIME.

>> Braude: SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE BONDING WITH JUSTICE KAVANAUGH.

IS THE NCAA IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW.

HOWARD, IS THE NEXT NATURAL STEP FROM THIS, TO NOT ONLY ALLOW THEM TO BE COMPENSATED WITH EDUCATION-RELATED BENEFITS BUT HARD CASH PAY THESE ATHLETES?

>> THE NEXT STEP IN THIS BATTLE IS A BATTLE.

THAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT STEP.

THE NCAA IS NOT GOING AWAY IN THIS.

WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO IS TRY TO MAINTAIN CONTROL.

THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO MOVE THIS TOWARDS AN EDUCATIONAL BENEFIT AND AVOID THE CASH PART OF IT WHEN THE EDUCATIONAL BENEFITS AND THE HEALTH BENEFITS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THE REAL FIGHT IS GOING TO BE WHEN IT COMES TIME TO PUT MONEY IN THE MAILBOX AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT THERE YET.

THE NCAA IS GOING TO DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO BE THE BROKER.

THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO CONTROL WHO GETS PAID AND WHERE.

I THINK AS BIG A STEP AS THIS WAS, WE'RE IN THE BULL PEN WARMING UP NOW IN TERMS OF WHERE THIS FIGHT IS GOING.

>> Braude: JUSTICE BUCKLEY BEFORE YOU LEAVE IN A SECOND, IF THIS FIGHT WAS WON, DESPITE HOWARD'S CAUTIONARY NOTE A WHILE AGO, DOES THIS TRICKLE DOWN TO ATHLETES ANYPLACE BUT THE BIGGEST BASKETBALL AND FOOTBALL GIANTS IN NOOBL?

IS THIS FOR ATHLETES IN REGULAR KINDS OF SCHOOLS?

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP IT WILL GO.

ALL I KNOW IS IT WILL BE A MERITOCRACY.

I THINK THE TOP AMATEUR THESE ATHLETES WILL BE PAID ACCORDINGLY AND THE NCAA WILL CEASE TO EXIST AS IT SHOULD.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN ON BIG COLLEGE CAMPUSES AND SEEN SOUVENIRS AND JACKETS AND SO FORTH WITH THE PLAYER'S NAME ON IT?

THE PLAYER DOESN'T GET ANY MONEY FROM THAT BUT THE NCAA AND THE SCHOOL DO, THAT'S FLAT OUT WRONG AND THAT SHOULD BE CHANGED.

>> LET'S ALSO NOT FORGET THAT THE BOTTOM LINE ON ALL THIS WAS STILL EDUCATING THE THESE PLAYERS AND IT'S VERY, VERY CLEAR THAT THE BOTTOM LINE THAT'S REPLACED ALL OF THIS IS EVERYBODY HAS SAID, THAT JIG IS UP.

SO WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE IDEA THAT THEY'RE STILL THERE TO GET AN EDUCATION?

BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT.

>> Braude: WELL, PEOPLE WANT TO THINK ABOUT THAT, WHEN YOU ARE THINKING GOOGLE, DEREK JACKSON AND MARCH MADNESS WILL TELL YOU A TALE.

HOWARD AND STEVE, THANK YOU.

NEXT UP, WHEN DONALD TRUMP WON THE WHITE HOUSE IN 2016, HE KNEW HE HAD A LARGE SWATH OF WORKING CLASS VOTERS TO THANK.

>> WE WON WITH POORLY EDUCATED.

I LOVE THE POORLY EDUCATED.

>> Braude: MAYBE HE MEANT "LESS EDUCATED?"

MAYBE NOT.

REGARDLESS, HIS FULL-THROATED EMBRACE, HOWEVER INARTFULLY EXPRESSED, WAS SEEN AS A WELCOME CHANGE FOR MANY WITHOUT A FOUR-YEAR COLLEGE DEGREE, WHO'VE LONG FELT LEFT OUT AND LOOKED DOWN ON IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

IN HIS LATEST BOOK, POLITICAL PHILOSOPHER MICHAEL SANDEL WRITES THAT THE SYSTEM IS, QUOTE: "A HOLLOW POLITICAL PROJECT THAT REFLECTS AN IMPOVERISHED CONCEPTION OF CITIZENSHIP AND FREEDOM," ADDING: "EVEN A FAIR MERITOCRACY, ONE WITHOUT CHEATING OR BRIBERY OR SPECIAL PRIVILEGES FOR THE WEALTHY, INDUCES A MISTAKEN IMPRESSION, THAT WE HAVE MADE IT ON OUR OWN."

IT'S CALLED: "THE TYRANNY OF MERIT: WHAT'S BECOME OF THE COMMON GOOD?"

MICHAEL SANDEL IS ALSO A PHILOSOPHY PROFESSOR AT HARVARD, AND HIS CLASSES HAVE BEEN VIEWED BY MILLIONS, THAT'S RIGHT, I MEAN MILLIONS ONLINE.

MICHAEL IT'S GREATLY TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU JIM.

>> Braude: CAN WE START AT THE BARBER SHOP LEVEL?

I TELL YOU MY TWO MAIN TAKE AWAYS FROM THIS.

THE NOTION IF YOU WORK HARD YOU SUCCEED, IF YOU FAIL IT'S BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WORK HARD ENOUGH.

I THINK YOU CALL THAT THE RHETORIC OF RISING IS BS AND NUMBER 2 THAT FOR YEARS THE CENTER LEFT IN THIS COUNTRY HASN'T GRASPED THAT CONCEPT WHILE FAUX POPULISTS LIKE TRUMP IN 2016 HAVE.

DID I CAPTURE THE ESSENCE OF THIS?

>> YOU GOT IT JUST A JIM.

THE BARBER SHOB VERSION, I LIKE YOUR VERSION OF IT.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS LOST CREDIBILITY AND HAS EVEN ALIENATED MANY WORKING CLASS VOTERS.

BY 2016, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAD BECOME THE FATHER MORE ATTUNED TO THE PROFESSIONAL CLASSES THE MORE EDUCATED, THE CREDENTIALED CLASSES.

AND ONE OF THE MOST POTENT SOURCES OF DONALD TRUMP'S APPEAL AND OF AUTHORITARIAN POPULIST APPEAL ARE THE SENSE THAT ELITES ARE LOOKING DOWN ON THOSE WHO LACK A FOUR YEAR DEGREE.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAD BETTER FIGURE THIS THIS OUT IN ORDER TO STAVE OFF THE GRIEVANCES, THE POLITICS OF GRIEVANCE AND HUMILITY YAITION THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS ABLE TO EXPLOIT.

>> Braude: ARE THOSE FORCES AT PLAY, THE ONES YOU SPOKE ABOUT AND WRITE ABOUT IN YOUR BOOK ARE THEY AT PLAY TODAY EVEN IN THIS PATHETIC NONDEBATE WE ARE HAVING ON CAPITOL HILL ABOUT PROTECTING VOTING RIGHTS?

THEY ARE, AREN'T THEY?

>> WELL, THEY ARE, INDIRECTLY.

IT'S INTERESTING.

JOE BIDEN WAS THE FIRST DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT IN 36 YEARS WITHOUT AN IVY LEAGUE DEGREE.

I THINK THIS WAS A KIND OF SECRET WEAPON.

NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT HELPED HIM TO CONNECT A LITTLE BIT BETTER WITH BLUE COLLAR VOTERS BUT ALSO BECAUSE I THINK HE'S A LITTLE BIT LESS TIED TO THE MERITOYRATIC POLITICAL PROJECT.

IF YOU WANT TO WIN IN THE ECONOMY WE'RE TOLD AGAIN AND AGAIN GO TO COLLEGE.

WHAT YOU EARN WILL DEPEND ON WHAT YOU LEARN.

YOU CAN MAKE IT IF YOU TRY.

THIS SEEMS INSPIRING BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY AN INSULT IMPLICIT IN IT.

BECAUSE IF YOU DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE AND IF YOU ARE NOT FLOURISHING IN THE NEW ECONOMY, YOU'RE A FAILURE, MUST BE YOUR FAULT.

THAT'S THE IMPLICATION.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW THE SUBTITLE OF YOUR BOOK IS, WHAT'S BECOME OF THE COMMON GOOD.

I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED THE VEHICLE FOR EMBRACING THE COMMON GOOD WAS GOVERNMENT.

AND IF ONE BUYS THAT, IF YOU BUY THAT, WHEN HALF THE POPULATION IS TOTALLY LOST FAITH IN THAT ELITIST GOVERNMENT AS THEY SEE IT, HOW DO YOU EVER REDISCOVER THE COMMON GOOD?

>> WE HAVE TO RE-THINK THE ELITISM THAT GAVE RISE TO THE RESENTMENTS THAT TRUMP AND OTHERS ARE ABLE TO EXPLOIT.

AND THAT MEANS RETHINKING QUITE A LOT, JIM BECAUSE IT GOES BACK FOUR DECADES.

IT GOES BACK TO THE KIND OF MARKET-DRIVEN VERSION OF GLOBALIZATION, THE NEOLIBERAL GLOBALIZATION.

THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS EMBRACED AND THE IDEA WAS WE WERE TOLD, YES, THERE WILL BE GAINS TO THE WINNERS AND THERE WILL BE LOSERS, BUT THE GAINS TO THE WINNERS CAN BE USED TO COMPENSATE THOSE WHO LOSE OUT.

PROBLEM WAS: THE COMPENSATION NEVER HAPPENED.

AND EVEN BEYOND THAT, THE WHOLE IDEA THAT THOSE WHO LAND ON TOP DESERVE THEIR SUCCESS, THEY'VE DONE IT, THEIR SUCCESS IS THEIR OWN DOING, THE MEASURE OF THEIR MERIT, THAT'S DEEPLY GALLING TO THE NEARLY TWO-THIRDS OF AMERICANS WHO DON'T HAVE A 74-YEAR COLLEGE DEGREE.

WE FORGET THAT.

>> Braude: -- FOUR YEAR COLLEGE DEGREE.

WE FORGET THAT.

>> Braude: TO GET BACK TO CURRENT EVENTS YET AGAIN WHEN WE READ THE PRO PUBLIC LAWA OF THE WORLD, THE BEZOS OF THE WORLD AT LEAST IN THE LAST DECADE MADE ZILLIONS BUT PAID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN TAXES, SEEMS TO FOLLOW YOUR NOTION THAT THE DEMOCRATS SEIZE ON THAT AND PROPOSE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THAT SO THAT THOSE GUISE WEREN'T PERCEIVED TO BE GETTING BETTER TREATMENT THAN WORKING CLASS AMERICANS WERE GETTING, AM I RIGHT ABOUT THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BUT THERE'S AN OBSTACLE TO THE DEMOCRATS, DEALING HEAD-ON WITH INEQUALITY.

AND THAT IS, DEMOCRATS IN THE CENTER LEFT HAVE BEEN ACCUSTOMED TO EVADING THE QUESTION OF INEQUALITY, AND OFFERING INSTEAD, INDIVIDUAL UPWARD MOBILITY THROUGH HIGHER EDUCATION.

THIS IS THE IDEA THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE HAS AN EQUAL START, AND THEN, THE WINNERS WILL DESERVE THEIR WINNINGS.

IF YOU HAD THAT PHILOSOPHY, IF YOU THINK THAT INEQUALITY OF INCOME AND WEALTH AND POWER CAN BE DEALT WITH ONLY BY ENCOURAGING PEOPLE GET A BETTER EDUCATION, THEN YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO DEAL IN A SERIOUS WAY WITH THE STRUCTURAL INEQUALITIES REFLECTED IN WHAT WE SEE WITH THE TAX SYSTEM, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THESE BILLIONAIRES PAYING VERY LITTLE.

>> Braude: SO HOW DO WE CHANGE THE MINDSET AROUND FOUR YEAR COLLEGES AND THE PRESTIGE THAT GOES WITH IT?

I WOULD ARGUE THAT JOE BIDEN HAS ATTEMPTED TO DO THAT BY TALKING ABOUT FREE COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE MOST ELITE SCHOOLS LIKE THE ONE THAT YOU WORK AT BUT CAN YOU GO TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE OR A TECH SCHOOL, A VOC SCHOOL AND HAVE A GREAT LIFE TOO, NO?

>> YES, BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE THAT POSSIBILITY REAL.

AND WE HAVE TO REVERSE THE STEEP HIERARCHY OF PRESTIGE THAT PUTS UNIVERSITIES LIKE THE ONE AT WHICH I TEACH AT THE APEX AND THAT RELEGATES COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND ALSO OTHER FORMS OF LEARNING, VOCATIONAL AND TECHNICAL TRAINING TO A KIND OF AFTER-THOUGHT.

ONE ECONOMIST AT BROOKINGS FIGURED OUT THAT WE SPEND ABOUT 162 BILLION DOLLARS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, HELPING PEOPLE GO TO COLLEGE, AND THAT'S A GOOD THING.

WE SPEND ABOUT $1 BILLION SUPPORTING THOSE WHO GO TO VOCATIONAL AND TECHNICAL TRAINING INSTITUTIONS.

THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT, AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT IS IT REFLECTS A KIND OF CREDENTIALIST COLLEGE LENS THAT CEDE YOU A LENS, FOR ECONOMIC ELEADS.

>> Braude: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU USES THIS WORDS CREDENTIALED ADMIRED AND WHAT DOESN'T.

ONE OF THE FIXES, YOU TALK ABOUT THE PATHS AWAY FROM THE TYRANNY IS HAVING CELEBRATING DIGNITY IN ALL WORK, BUT ONE OF THE REASONS I'M AS HOPELESS TODAY AS I AM SO MANY DAYS, IS HAVING THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, REMEMBER AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC, WE WERE ALL CELEBRATING THE DIGNITY OF THE GROCERY STORE WORKER, THE GUY OR WOMAN WHO'S DELIVERING FOOD TO OUR HOUSE DESPITE THE THREAT TO HIS HEALTH AND THE HEALTH OF HIS OR HER FAMILY.

THAT DISSIPATED IN A NANOSECOND, DID IT NOT?

>> WELL, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH IT'S DISSIPATED.

I SHARE YOUR WORRY, JIM AND I HAD YOUR HOPE AT THE BEGINNING.

SUDDENLY, THOSE OF US WORKING FROM HOME DURING THE PANDEMIC REALIZED HOW DEEPLY WE DEPEND ON WORKERS WE OFTEN OVERLOOK.

THE WAREHOUSE WORKERS, DELIVERY WORKERS, HOME HEALTH CARE WORKERS, CHILDCARE WORKERS, SO THIS SEEMED TO BE A MOMENT, WE WERE CALLING THEM ESSENTIAL WORKERS AFTER ALL, SEEMED TO BE A MOMENT FOR A BROADER PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT HOW TO BRING THEIR PAY AND RECOGNITION INTO BETTER ALIGNMENT WITH THE CONTRIBUTION HE OFSTHEY MAKE.

I HOPE THAT IMPORTANCE HASN'T ENTIRELY DISSIPATED BECAUSE A POLITICAL PROCESS FOCUSED ON THE DIGNITY OF WORK I THINK IS THE MOST COMPELLING AND NECESSARY ALTERNATIVE TO WHAT I CONSIDER THE STAIM STALE PROJECT OF MERITOCRATIC, INDIVIDUAL RISING THROUGH HIGHER EDUCATION.

JKD MICHAEL SANDEL, YOU ONLY HAVE 30 SECONDS LEFT.

GIVE ME ONE THING ON YOUR LIST, EVEN ON THIS GRIDLOCKED COUNTRY WOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO BREAK THAT LOGJAM AND MAYBE OPEN US UP TO ESCAPING THIS TYRANNY OF MERIT?

>> WOULD I BEGIN BY DEBATHING TAXES, FROM THE -- DEBATING TAXES FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE DIGNITY OF WORK.

WHY SHOULD WE TAX PEOPLE WHO MAKE MONEY FROM INVESTMENTS AT A LOWER RATE THAN WE TAX INCOME FROM WORK?

I WOULD START THERE.

AND FROM THERE I WOULD MOVE ON TO A FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS TAX, AMERICAN AS A WAY OF LOWERING -- MAYBE AS A WAY OF LOWERING TAXES ON WORK SUCH AS THE PAYROLL TAX NOT AS A PANACEA BUT SO WE CAN BEGIN JIM HAVING A BROADER PUBLIC DEBATE ABOUT WHAT IT REALLY MEANS IN PRACTICE.

TO AFFIRM AND RENEW THE DIGNITY OF WORK.

>> Braude: COULDN'T AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE WORD THERE MORE.

MICHAEL SANDEL, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.

>> THANK SO MUCH JIM.

>> Braude: THE BOOK AGAIN, THE TYRANNY OF MERIT WHAT'S BECOME OF GOOD.

IS WHILE MILL TOWNS TURN OLD FACTORIES INTO CONDOS, AND A POST-COVID WORLD HAS US RE-EVALUATING OFFICE SPACE, THERE IS ONE INDUSTRY WITH A GROWING DEMAND FOR WORKERS AND SPACE - BIO-MANUFACTURING.

AND AS LIZ NEISLOSS REPORTS, JOBS IN THOSE FIELDS AREN'T JUST FOR PEOPLE WITH ADVANCED DEGREES.

>> SO THERE'S LOTS OF DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITY HERE.

AND THEN THERE'S THAT OFFICE COMPLEX THERE.

>> Reporter: CHELSEA CITY MANAGER TOM AMBROSINO WANTS YOU TO PUT YOUR BIOMANUFACTURING PLANT IN HIS CITY.

>> EVERYONE THINKS THEY'RE THE NEW KENDALL SQUARE, WE'RE NOT PURPORTING TO BE THAT.

BUT WE THINK CHELSEA HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE OF INTEREST TO FOLKS LOOKING TO LOCATE.

WE'RE CLOSE TO BOSTON, CLOSE TO THE AIRPORT.

>> Reporter: A LOT OF PLACES WANT TO ROLL OUT THE WELCOME MAT FOR THESE KINDS OF COMPANIES, AND THERE'S PLENTY OF DEMAND FOR SPACE.

>> CURRENTLY THERE'S SOMEWHERE IN THE RANGE OF TWO TO THREE MILLION SQUARE FEET OF MANUFACTURING, BIOMANUFACTURING SPACE IN MASSACHUSETTS WITH ANOTHER AROUND THREE MILLION SQUARE FEET SET TO COME ON WITHIN THE NEXT FIVE TO SIX YEARS.

SO NEARLY DOUBLING.

>> Reporter: BUT CHELSEA HAS A PARTICULAR AIM IN DRAWING THAT TYPE OF CUTTING EDGE BUSINESS.

AMBROSINO SAYS NEARLY HALF OF THE CITY'S RESIDENTS ARE FOREIGN BORN AND MANY ENTER THE WORKFORCE WITH NO MORE THAN HIGH SCHOOL DEGREES.

>> WE'RE REALLY INTERESTED IN BRINGING IN EMPLOYERS THAT PAY GOOD LIVING WAGES TO PEOPLE THAT DON'T NECESSARILY NEED A MASTER'S DEGREE OR A DOCTORATE IN ORDER TO HAVE A JOB.

>> Reporter: BIOMANUFACTURING, WHICH MAKES PRODUCTS SUCH AS VACCINES, NEEDS MANY EMPLOYEES WITH ADVANCED DEGREES, BUT THOSE JOBS AT THE ENTRY LEVEL ARE ALSO CRITICAL.

COMMUNITY COLLEGES OFFER CERTIFICATE PROGRAMS AND NONPROFITS LIKE THE GLOUCESTER BIOTECHNOLOGY CEAMED QUS RUN A VOCATIONAL PROGRAM THAT CAN PREPARE STUDENTS FOR ENTRY LEVEL JOBS AS QUICKLY AS NINE MONTHS.

KEY JOBS LIKE QUALITY CONTROL.

>> THE DEMAND IS, IS VERY HIGH ACROSS THE BOARD BY MANUFACTURING AND BIOTECHNOLOGY IN GENERAL.

WE HEAR FROM OUR EMPLOYERS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO FILL THE POSITIONS THAT THEY, THEY NEED, ESPECIALLY AT THE ENTRY LEVEL.

>> Reporter: THIS ACADEMY PLANS TO EXPAND AND IS CURRENTLY BUILDING A NEW BIOMANUFACTURING LAB SPACE.

THERE ARE MANY MORE APPLICANTS FOR THIS TYPE OF TRAINING THAN PROGRAMS TO MEET THE NEED, SAYS DOYLE.

>> THERE'S A POOL OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT COULD BE USED TO FILL THIS GAP IN EMPLOYMENT.

AND WE JUST HAVE TO RETHINK HOW WE REACH THEM.

>> Reporter: OTHER STATES ARE VYING WITH MASSACHUSETTS FOR BIOMANUFACTURING.

MORE TRAINING WOULD KEEP THE STATE'S COMPETITIVE EDGE.

>> IF WE'RE GOING TO REALIZE THE POTENTIAL OF THE REGION.

WE CAN ONLY DO THAT IF WE HAVE THE PEOPLE TO STAFF AND WE CAN ONLY HAVE THE PEOPLE TO STAFF IF WE EDUCATE THEM AND TRAIN THEM.

>> Reporter: MEANWHILE IN CHELSEA, THERE'S APARTMENTS GOING UP.

AND A NEW COMBINED SILVER LINE AND COMMUTER RAIL STOP OPENING IN SEPTEMBER.

CHELSEA'S HONING THEY'LL HELP ENTICE COMPANIES TO PUT THE CITY ON THE NEW MANUFACTURING TRACK.

LIZ NEISLOSS, GBH NEWS.

>> Braude: 2020 WAS A RECORD YEAR FOR VENTURE CAPITAL AS WELL AS FEDERAL FUNDING FOR LIFE SCIENCES IN MASSACHUSETTS.

INDUSTRY GROUP MASSBIO SAYS THE GROWTH THAT'S CREATED, NOW BEING SEEN IN BIO-MANUFACTURING, MEANS LOCATIONS NOT PREVIOUSLY INVOLVED IN LIFE SCIENCES SHOULD SEE NEW OPPORTUNITIES.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

FORMER SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT JUSTICE ROBERT CORDY JOINS ME ON HIS FIGHT TO GET GOVERNOR BAKER AND THE STATE PAROLE BOARD TO COMMUTE THE SENTENCE OF WILLIAM ALLEN, A 47-YEAR-OLD BLACK MAN SENTENCED TO LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE FOR A MURDER HE WAS PRESENT FOR, BUT DIDN'T COMMIT.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND STAY SAFE.

♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org