DAILY WORK COMMUTES.

A STATE LAWMAKER AND A FORMER SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION JOIN ME ON WHAT FIXES THE T NEEDS, NOW, AND LONG-TERM.

THEN LATER, THE "NEW YORK TIMES" BEST-SELLING AUTHOR OF "HOW TO BE AN ANTIRACIST," IBRAM X. KENDI, JOINS ME ON HIS NEW BOOK: "HOW TO RAISE AN ANTIRACIST."

>> Braude: STOP ME IF YOU'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE, BUT, IT HASN'T BEEN A GOOD WEEK FOR THE T, WHICH ANNOUNCED YESTERDAY THAT IT'S PULLING ALL ITS NEW ORANGE LINE CARS OFFLINE FOR THE SECOND TIME IN SIX WEEKS-- THIS TIME, BECAUSE OF BATTERY ISSUES.

NEW RED LINE CARS ARE AFFECTED, TOO, BUT THEY'RE ALREADY OFFLINE.

ON TOP OF THAT, THE RED, ORANGE, AND BLUE LINES ARE ALL OPERATING ON REDUCED SCHEDULES RIGHT NOW, THANKS TO STAFFING PROBLEMS.

THEN THERE WAS THE CHINATOWN STATION ESCALATOR THAT STARTED MOVING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION WITH TEN PEOPLE ON IT OVER THE WEEKEND-- AGAIN.

BUT, UNLIKE WHEN THE SAME THING HAPPENED LAST SEPTEMBER, AND NINE PEOPLE WERE TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL?

THIS TIME, NO ONE WAS HURT.

BUT THERE'S MORE.

LAST WEEK, TWO GREEN LINE TRAINS "UNINTENTIONALLY COUPLED"-- WHATEVER THAT MEANS-- RESULTING IN PASSENGERS HAVING TO MARCH THROUGH A TUNNEL TO GET OUT.

THREE WEEKS AGO, TWO GREEN LINE TRAINS COLLIDED NEAR GOVERNMENT CENTER.

BOTH DERAILED, AND FOUR M.B.T.A.

DRIVERS WENT TO THE HOSPITAL.

AND THAT'S JUST THIS MONTH.

IN THE YEAR OR SO PRIOR, A DORCHESTER MAN WAS DRAGGED TO HIS DEATH AFTER HIS ARM WAS CAUGHT IN A TRAIN DOOR; TWO GREEN LINE TRAINS CRASHED IN BRIGHTON, SENDING MORE THAN TWO DOZEN PEOPLE TO THE HOSPITAL; A B.U.

PROFESSOR DIED AFTER FALLING THROUGH A RUSTED STAIRCASE AT J.F.K.

U-MASS STATION IN DORCHESTER; A RED LINE TRAIN DERAILED AT BROADWAY STATION; AND A WOMAN WAS KILLED WHEN HER CAR WAS HIT BY A COMMUTER RAIL TRAIN IN WILMINGTON, AFTER CROSSING GATES AND LIGHTS DID NOT ACTIVATE IN TIME.

SO, IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD THING THAT STATE LAWMAKERS ARE PLANNING A RARE OVERSIGHT HEARING ON THE M.B.T.A.

IN THE COMING WEEKS-- A MOVE THAT ONLY CAME AFTER FEDERAL AUTHORITIES DECLARED THEY WERE "EXTREMELY CONCERNED" ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES AT THE T, AND TOLD THE T'S BOARD EARLIER THIS MONTH TO IMMEDIATELY FIX FOUR MAIN AREAS WHILE THEY CONTINUE A LARGER INVESTIGATION: STAFFING OF ITS OPERATIONS CONTROL CENTER; A PATTERN OF SAFETY INCIDENTS IN RAIL YARDS INVOLVING LOOSE TRAINS; GETTING ALL TRACKS TO A STATE OF GOOD REPAIR; AND ENSURING EMPLOYEE CERTIFICATIONS HAVE NOT LAPSED.

SOME PRETTY IMPORTANT THINGS ON THERE, BUT CERTAINLY NOT THE ONLY THINGS.

SO, IS THE T FIXABLE?

AND DOES ANYONE HAVE THE POWER, OR MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE WILL-POWER, TO DO IT?

I'M JOINED BY REPRESENTATIVE BILL STRAUS, CO-CHAIR OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION, AND JIM ALOISI, FORMER STATE SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION.

JIM, CHAIRMAN, THANKS, GOODS TO SEE YOU BOTH, APPRECIATE IT CHAIRMAN STRUS, LET ME START WITH WAW, READING ALL THE STUFF TODAY, ST AS IF THE T LEADERSHIP MET PRIVATELY AND SAID WHAT CAN WE DO TO ENSURE THAT NO ONE EVER WANT TOSES RIDE THE T AGAIN UNLESS THEY HAVE TO.

THAT IS NOT MUCH OF AN EXAGGERATION, IS IT?

>> WELL, THE TRAGEDY IS THAT WHAT WE'VE GOT HERE WAS PREVIEWED THREE YEARS AGO WHEN THE PRIOR OVERSIGHT BOARD, THE CONTROL BOARD RELEASED THE LaHOOD STUDY IN 2019.

AND PRETTY MUCH PREDICTED UNLESS CHANGES WERE UNDERTAKEN WHICH WAS AT THAT TIME, I TRL, MISDIRECTION FROM OPERATIONS TO CAP FALL PROJECTS OF THEIR FUNDING AND OF THEIR EMPATHY, SO THIS WAS SADLY INEVITABLE.

BUT WHAT IS COMING UP NOW IN TERMS OF THE LAST UNDERSTAND BLEEF-- UNDERSTANDABLY CONFIDENCE BY THE PUBLIC IS A NEED TO REDRICT.

IT'S NOT JUST ALL OF THE LIST OF PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED.

BUT CLEARLY A MANAGEMENT CULTURE, APPROACH AND MISPRIORITYIZATION OF SAFETY.

WE CAN'T GET TO ANY OF THE OTHER ISSUES, WHATEVER YOU WANT, UNTIL SAFETY BECAUSE WE'LL PUT AT RISK THE CONFIDENCE OF THE PUBLIC WHEN RIDING THESE TRAINS.

>> JIM ALLOISI, LAX SAFETY CULTURE IS A TERM THEY USED WHICH SEEMS TO BE A GROSS UNDERSTATEMENT, PARTICULARLY THE FAMILY OF ROBINSON LALIMB WHO WAS DRAGGED TO HIS DEATH.

THERE IS A REAL SAFETY PROBLEM THERE, IS THERE NOT?

>> I TAKE THE T A LOT.

I THINK IT'S SAFE.

AND I RESIST THE DEM STATION TO PILE ON AND SAY THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH SAFETY CULTURE.

AND THE REASON WHY -- >> Braude: THAT IS WHAT THEY SAID, NOT ME, THE FEDERAL TRANSIT AUTHORITY.

>> I HAD UNDERSTAND THAT.

I KNOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THAT BUILDING.

THERE IS NOBODY WHO GOES TO WORK AT TEN PARK PLAZA OR THE CONTROL CENTER ON HIGH STREET WHO ACTIVELY DOESN'T CARE ABOUT SAFETY, RIGHT.

SO IT IS NOT ABOUT INDIVIDUALS.

AND ITS HE NOT ABOUT THEIR CULTURE IT IS ABOUT THEIR RESOURCES WHICH THEY LACK SOARLY.

RIGHT?

THEY'RE UNDER STAFFED BECAUSE THEY LACK OPERATING BUDGET RESOURCES.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO BE DOING RIGHT NOW, THE OPERATIONS CONTROL CENTER, TO PROVIDE THE KIND ITS OF OVERSIGHT THAT THEY NEED TO DO TO HAVE BETTER SERVICES, THEY DON'T HAVE A HUMAN RELATIONS DEPARTMENT THAT AT THE CAPACITY THAT THEY NEED IT TO BE IN ORDER TO HIRE PEOPLE.

AND WHAT THEY LACK SOARLY ARE THE RESOURCES AND THE POLITICAL WILL AT DIFFERENT OTHER LEVELS OF STATE GOVERNMENT TO GIVE THEM THAT RESOURCES TO GET THE JOB DONE.

>> JIM, CAN I SAY TO YOU W ALL DUE RESPECT, I THINK IT IS THE CULTURE WHEN THE APPROPRIATE SUBCOMMITTEE HAS A PUBLIC HEARING RIGHT AFTER THE DRAGGING DEATH OF MR. LALEAN AND DOESN'T ASK ONE SINGLE PUBLIC QUESTION ABOUT THAT INCIDENT, THAT TO ME SAY PROBLEM.

LET'S GO BACK TO THE FOUR AREAS, THIS FROM A GLOBE STORY.

THE FTA TOLD THE T TO ADEQUATELY STAFF ITS OPERATION CONTROL CENTER.

HERE IS WHAT THE SPOKESMAN TO THE T JOE PASSTORO SAID DECLINE TO RELEASE THE NUMBER OF OPEN POSITIONS, PROBLEMS WITH SAFETY INCIDENTS AT RAIL YARDS.

SPOKESMAN FOR THE T REFUSES TO SAY HOW MANY SAFETY INCIDENTS THERE WERE.

THE FTA TOLD THE T TO ENSURE EMPLOYER CERTIFICATION HADN'T LAPSED, THE SPOKESMAN FOR THE T DECLINED TO SAY HOW MANY OPERATORS HAD LAPSED CERTIFICATION IT SEEMS TO ME TRANSPARENTY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT EVEN IN TOUGH TIMES LIKE THIS, JIM, THAT IS A CULTURE PROBLEM, ISN'T IT?

>> WELL, YEAH, LOOK, I'M NOT GOING TO DEFEND THIS NEW BOARD FOR YOU,'S APPARENT INACTION AND INABILITY TO GRAP WELL WHAT YOU NEED TO GRAPPLE WITH.

I'M TALKING ABOUT EMPLOYEES AND NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT BOARD.

I THINK THE BOARD SHOOMS SERIOUS ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH HOW IT RESPONDED TO-- AND SPOKES PEOPLE DO WHAT SPOKES PEOPLE DO WHICH IS THEY TELL YOU AS LITTLE AS THEY CAN TILL.

BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, I HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT AT THE T THE FOLKS WHO ARE IN THE TRENCHES CARE ABOUT SAFETY.

BUT THEY NEED ARE THE RESOURCES TO GET THE JOB DONE.

THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE RESOURCES.

FOR TWO REASONS, NUMBER ONE, THIS BOARD MADE THE MISTAKE OF SHIFTING HALF A BILLION DOLLARS OF OPERATING MONEY TO THE CAPITAL BUDGET JUST THIS SCHOOL YEAR, THAT WAS A HUGE ERROR.

NUMBER TWO, THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OPERATING BUDGET MONEY TO NOT JUST STAFF UP AND TRAIN PROPERLY, BUT NOW TO PAY FOR ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THE FTA IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO MAKE ON THEM OVER THE NEXT PROBABLY YEAR, THEY CAN PAY FOR SOME STAFF POSITIONS TODAY BUT I GUARANTEE YOU WHAT THE FDA IS GOING TO DO RELEARNEDILESSLY IS KEEP REQUIRING THEM TO DO THINGS MOST OF WHICH WILL REQUIRE OPERATING BUDGET MONEY THAT THEY WON'T HAVE.

>> Braude: WELL LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MONEY, MY UNDERSTANDING CHAIRMAN IS YESTERDAY THE CHAIR OF THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE SAID I THINK HE USED THE TERM-- WE ARE NOT SURE OF THE PROS PECKIVE AMOUNT, 400 MILLION ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO ADDRESS SAFETY CONCERNS.

CHAIRMAN STRAUSS IS THAT ENOUGH?

>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS IN TERMS OF THE COUPLE OF TIME HORIZON.

IN TERMS OF THE IMMEDIATE RIGHT NOW FINANCIAL NEED, THE T HAS ALL THE RESOURCES FINANCIALLY THAT THEY NEED TO DO THIS, AND I WOULD JUST LOOK AT THE JANUARY REPORT BY THE GENERAL MANAGER TO THE BOARD, I THINK IT IS PAGE 14, I CHECKED BEFORE WE WENT ON, WHERE HE IDENTIFIED 500 MILLION DOLLARS OF AVAILABLE FUNDING THAT THEY COULD SPEND ON PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING.

SO THERE IS A WILL BY THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE BOARD TO DIRECT THAT INTO THE SHORT-TERM AREA.

AS TO WHAT HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS HAS OFFERED TO THE FLORIDA BASE WHICH WE'RE HAVING ACTUALLY TOMORROW ON THE TRANSPORTATION BOND BILL, THE 400 MILLION IS-- REFLECTS THE SERIOUSNESS WITH WHICH THE LEGISLATURE APPROACHES THIS.

AND LET ME JUST SAY A LOT OF TIMES WE USE THE LABEL CAPITAL AND OPERATION.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS GET BOTH DONE SIMULTANEOUSLY.

AND EVEN THREE YEARS AGO THE LaHOOD REPORT IDENTIFIED THAT AS JIM ALLOISI SAID MONEY WAS BEING DIRECTED AWAY FROM OPERATIONS, THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

IT WAS OUT THERE PUBLICLY THREE YEARS AGO AND SO THE AND KINDS OF EVENT WAS INEVITABLE.

>> WE'RE SHORT ON TIME SO I WILL STAY WITH YOU, THE CHAIRMAN SPOKE YESTERDAY SAYING BASICALLY ST ALL ON THE GOVERNOR, DO YOU BUY THAT QUICKLY?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE DONE IN THE LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS IS TRYING TO GET RID OF THE SILLOS IN TRANSPORTATION MANAGEMENT.

NO LONGER HAVE A TURN PIKE AUTHORITY.

WE TOOK A LOT OF THE SEPARATENESS OF THE M.B.T.A.

AWAY AND THE MANAGER IS KICK-- BY THE SECRETARY WHO ANSWERS TO THE GOVERNOR SO WE MADE ACCOUNTABILITY IN OUR REFORM EFFORTS OVER SEVERAL YEARS IN DIFFERENT PIECES OF LEGISLATION.

AND SO I AGREE WITH THE SENATE PRESIDENT, IT HAS BEEN SEVEN YEARS, WE HAVE AS SHE CORRECTLY INDICATED, EVERY TIME THE GOVERNOR MADE A REQUEST FOR THE TOOLS OR MANAGEMENT, WE GAVE THOSE TO HIM, I THINK THE IMPORTANT.

>> QUICKLY THE THING I DON'T UNDERSTAND, THE TERM IS BEING USED ABOUT THE OVERSITE HEARINGS YOU WILL HAVE RARE OVERSIGHT HEARINGS FROM THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE.

WHY DID THE FEDERAL TRANSIT AUTHORITY HAVE TO IDENTIFY THESE THINGS, WHY DIDN'T THE LEGISLATURE WHICH IS APPROPRIATING THE MONEY IDENTIFY THESE THINGS LONG BEFORE WE NEEDED THE THE FED TO DO THE JOB.

>> I THINK WILL YOU FIND EVERYONE INCLUDING MYSELF RESPONDED WHEN THE LaHOOD REPORT CAME OUT BUT LET ME BE CLEAR THE DIFFERENCE OF OUR OVERSITE PROCESS FROM THE FTA.

THE FTA IS RESPONDING TO THE SPECIFIC INCIDENT AND THEY WILL ISSUE REMEDIES AND MANDATES.

BUT WE NOW HAVE A WIDER QUESTION BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE CAN'T MANAGE INDIVIDUAL CRISES OR THE BATTERIES OF THE-- THAT TRACK RIDE, THEY NEED VERY SPECIFIC THINGS.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS PROVIDE RESOURCES, BUT ALSO PROVIDE STRUCTURE IF IT NEEDS CHANGING IN TERMS OF HOW SOMETHING LIKE SAFETY IS TAKEN UP EVERY DAY, I AGREE THE PEOPLE THAT WORK THERE ARE GREAT.

BUT AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO LOOK UP THE MANAGEMENT FOOD CHAIN FOR THE MANDATE TO RUN A SAFE OPERATION.

>> JIM ALOISI, WHO SHOULD THE RIDING PUBLIC THAT SEEMS TO BE MUCH MORE SPERNED ABOUT-- CONCERNED ABOUT SAFETY, I DON'T MEAN THIS DISPARAGINGLY THAN YOU ARE, BECAUSE PROBABLY THEY KNOW LESS THAN YOU, WHO SHOULD THEY BE UPSET WITH?

>> THEY SHOULD BE UPSET WITH THE T AND ITS INABILITY TO DEAL WITH THIS, THEY SHOULD BE UPSET AND I MEAN THIS WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR FOR-- I JUST WANT TO SAY QUICKLY, THE MPTA SAYS IT HAS A RULING 230 MILLION DOLLAR OPERATING BUDGET SHOFORT FALL NEXT JULY.

THEY SAY THAT, RIGHT.

I GUARANTEE YOU YOU WILL BE MORE PRESSURE ON THE OPERATING BUDGET BECAUSE OF WHAT THE FDA WILL BE CONTINUES TO DO.

THE LEGISLATURE, 400 MILLION IN A BOND BILL FOR CAPITAL IF THAT IS WHAT THIS IS, THAT IS NOT HELPFUL.

WHAT WE NEED IS TO DEAL WITH THE OPERATING BUDGET SHORT FALL THAT IS, WILL BE A CRISIS NEXT YEAR, GIVE THE T THE RESOURCES TO HIRE AND TRAIN PEOPLE, AND TO STAFF UP.

WHICH IT LACKS.

>> 15 SECONDS LATER THE LINE WAS AFTER UVALDE, THIS TIME IT WILL BE DIFFERENT.

IT APPEARS IT WILL BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, QUICKIE JIM ALOISI, THIS TIME WILL IT BE DIFFERENT OR WILL WE BE TALKING ABOUT THE FTA REPORT JUST LIKE BILL STRAUS IS TALKING ABOUT THE LaHOOD REPORT FROM THREE YEARS AGO, QUICKLY.

>> I'M AN OPTIMIST SO I WILL SAY THIS TIME, THE ADVOCATES WHO CARE ABOUT THIS ARE GOING TO HOPEFULLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> Braude: HOW ABOUT YOU, BILL.

>> I ALWAYS REMAIN OPTIMISTIC THAT WE WILL DO A BETTER JOB, >> Braude: REPRESENTATIVE BILL STRAUS, JIM ALOISI, THANKS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, APPRECIATE IT.

NEXT UP, WHEN IT COMES TO ADDRESSING RACISM IN AMERICA, IT'S ONCE AGAIN FEELING LIKE "ONE STEP FORWARD, 12 STEPS BACK," BECAUSE ALONGSIDE JUNETEENTH COMMEMORATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ON ITS SECOND YEAR AS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY, WE HAVE STORIES LIKE THE ONE OUT OF MAINE, WHERE AN INSURANCE AGENCY POSTED A SIGN TO MARK THE DAY, TELLING PEOPLE TO "ENJOY YOUR FRIED CHICKEN AND COLLARD GREENS," AND FOX NEWS USING THE HOLIDAY TO URGE PEOPLE TO FIGHT ANTI-RACIST CURRICULUMS IN SCHOOLS.

AND THEN YESTERDAY, WE WERE ONCE AGAIN REMINDED OF THE DEEP-ROOTED RACISM OF THE PEOPLE WHO LED THIS NATION JUST A SHORT TIME AGO.

THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND HIS HENCHMAN, WHO TARGETED A MOTHER/DAUGHTER PAIR OF ELECTION VOLUNTEERS, LYING TO THE WORLD ABOUT HOW THEY BROUGHT IN THOUSANDS OF FRAUDULENT BALLOTS TO SWING THE ELECTION, AND DESCRIBING THEM LIKE THIS: >> SHE'S A VOTE SCAMMER, A PROFESSIONAL VOTE SCAMMER, AND HUSTLER.

>> RUBY FREEMAN AND SHAYE FREEMAN MOSS, AND ONE OTHER GENTLEMAN, QUITE OBVIOUSLY, SURREPTITIOUSLY, PASSING AROUND U.S.B.

PORTS AS IF THEY ARE VIALS OF HEROIN OR COCAINE.

>> Braude: "LUCKY IT WAS 2020 AND NOT 1920," ONE TRUMP FOLLOWER MESSAGED.

OH, AND WHAT WERE THEY PASSING AROUND, BY THE WAY?

A GINGER MINT.

SO, HOW DO WE COMBAT RACISM COMING AT US FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES?

DR. IBRAM X. KENDI, THE AUTHOR OF "HOW TO BE AN ANTI-RACIST," IS NOW THE AUTHOR OF "HOW TO RAISE AN ANTI-RACIST."

HE'S ALSO THE FOUNDING DIRECTOR OF THE B.U.

CENTER FOR ANTIRACIST RESEARCH, AND JOINS ME NOW.

DR. KENDI, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Braude: LET ME READ TO YOU FROM THE END OF THE INTRODUCTION TO YOUR BOOK AT THE END THERE.

>> THE MOST CRITICAL PART OF RACING AN ANTIRACIST CHILD IS NOT WHAT WE DO WITH OUR CHILD T IS WHAT WE DO WITH OUR SOCIETY.

AS I MENTIONED YESTERDAY, IT WAS TREATED THIS VIAL SADISTIC RACISM DIRECTED TO TWO PEOPLE BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

IT SEEMS SOCIETY IS NOT DOING SO WELL S IT?

>>.

>> CERTAINLY IN MANY WAYS IT ASK NOT.

AND PARTICULARLY BECAUSE OUR CHILDREN ARE WATCHING.

AND OUR CHILDREN ARE STUDYING TO SEE HOW WE'RE TREATING DIFFERENT PEOPLE OR IN THE CASE OF THE TWO PEOPLE WHO TESTIFIED BEFORE THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE, HOW WE'RE MISTREATING PEOPLE.

AND BY WHO WE'RE MISTREATING WE'RE ALSO DEMONSTRATING TO CHILDREN WHO WE VALUE OR DON'T VALUE.

AND ALMOST OPENING THE DOOR FOR THAT MISTREATMENT-- MISTREATMENT TO CONTINUE FOR FORE GENERATION.

>> SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT 12 YEAR OLD KID WHO WAS WATCHING YESTERDAY AND SAYS WHY DO TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SUPPORT A MAN WHO BELIEVES RACIAL DE GRADATION IS PART OF HIS WAY OF DOING BUSINESS.

AND BY THE WAY, THAT GUY WOULD WOULD BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WA, DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> I SAY THAT YOU HAVE MANY AMERICANS WHO ARE STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET WHO ARE STRUGGLING SOCIALLY OR PERSONALLY AND THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD BY PEOPLE WHO THEY TRUST, NAMELY PEOPLE LIKE THIS PRESIDENT THAT THE SOURCE OF THEIR PAIN ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T LOOK LIKE THEM.

WHO DON'T KNOW THEM.

AND IT'S AN EASY WAY OUT.

WHEN IN REALITY, THAT PERSON IS CONVINCING THEM THAT THE SOURCE OF THEIR PAIN OF THOSE OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE TYPICALLY THAT PERSON THEMSELVES IS A SOURCE OF THEIR PAIN.

SO ST A FORM OF DISTRACTION.

>> ONE OF THE MOST APPEALING PARTS OF YOUR BOOK IS YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO POINT OUT YOUR OWN FLAWS.

I AM NOT TELLING ANYBODY MY FLAWS ABOUT ANYTHING.

YOU MENTION THAT YOUR ORIGINAL INSTINCT WAS TO SHIELD YOUR DAUGHTER IMANI FROM RACISM.

WHAT CHANGED YOUR APPROACH TO CHILD REARING?

>> I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF EXPERIENCE.

YOU KNOW, AS A FATHER, AS WELL AS SCIBLGHTING-- CONDUCTING RESEARCH ON THIS TOPIC.

AND I THOUGHT THAT THE WAY THAT I PROTECTED MY DAUGHTER FROM RACISM WAS TO ALMOST KEEP HER AS FAR AWAY FROM IT AS POSSIBLE.

BUT THE MORE I STUDIED AND SORT OF EXPERIENCED FATHERHOOD THE MORE I REALIZED IT WAS NO PROTECTING HER FROM IT.

THERE IS ONLY TEACHING HER HOW TO PROTECT HERSELF.

AND IN THE WAY WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN TO LOOK BOTH WAYS.

BECAUSE WE ASSUME THAT AT SOME POINT WE'RE GOING TO BE CROSSING THE STREET BY THEMSELVES AND WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE HIT, IN THIS CASE BY THESE DEGRADING MESSAGES THAT THEY ARE BETTER OR WORSE BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU WERE A KID, MY UNDERSTANDING, YOU WENT TO A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT SCHOOLS, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> YEAH, I THINK ABOUT EIGHT SCHOOLS.

>> WHY, WHY DID YOU GO TO EIGHT DIFFERENT SCHOOLS?

>> IT WAS OFTENTIMES BECAUSE OF EXPERIENCING RACISM.

AT THE PARTICULAR SCHOOL AND MY PARENTS DECIDING TO FIND ANOTHER PLACE THAT THEY HOPED THAT WOULD SORT OF NURTURE ME AS OPPOSED TO RIDICULE ME.

>> WHEN WERE YOU ALL OF FIVE YEARS OLD, I THINK YOU WERE IN KINDERGARTEN YOU WRITE THAT YOU WERE FOUND TO BE AN UNRULY CHILD.

WERE YOU?

>> WELL, ACCORDING TO MY MOTHER WHO CAME AND OBSERVED ME IN THE CLASS, WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING WAS THERE WERE MULTIPLE DEVELOPMENTAL LEVELS IN THE CLASSROOM AND THE TEACHER WASN'T ABLE TO MANAGE ALL THESE DIFFERENT STUDENTS.

AND SHE WOULD GIVE SOME STUDENTS LIKE ME A SIGN IN AND EXPECT ME TO JUST SIT AT MY DESK WHEN I FINISHED.

AND OTHER STUDENTS TOO.

AND THEN WHEN WE DECIDED NOT TO AT FIVE YEARS OLD, PARTICULARLY ME, I WAS SEEN AS A BEHAVIORAL PROBLEM AS OPPOSED TO THE WAY THE CLASSROOM WAS STRUCTURED.

>> SO DECADES LATER, SAME SORT OF THING, WITH BLACK KIDS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS TODAY.

BLACK DOCTORS, BLACK TEACHERS, BLACK COPS, AND THAT SORT OF THING, HOW DID THAT, HOW DOES TODAY, HOW DID THAT MOMENT AS A FIVE YEAR OLD AFFECT YOU.

DOES IT STAY WITH YOU?

>> I THINK THE WAY IT ACTUALLY AFFECTED ME MOST WAS WHEN MY DAUGHTER IMANI WENT TO SCHOOL OR BIG SCHOOL AS SHE CALLS IT, I WAS ACTUALLY PERSONALLY, YOU KNOW, SCARED ABOUT HER ENTRANCE, AS MANY BLACK PARENTS WHO HAVE MEMORIES OF HOW THEY WERE TREATED WHEN THEY WERE FIRST ENTERING SCHOOL, HAVE THESE FEARS.

SO I WAS VERY HESITANT TO, YOU KNOW, I WAS SORT OF SCARED ABOUT PUTTING HER IN THIS ENVIRONMENT WHERE SHE IS GOING TO BE LOOKED UPON AS A BEHAVIORAL PROBLEM OR NOT GIVEN THE BEN KNIT OF THE DOUBT BECAUSE OF HER SKIN COLOR BY TOO MANY PEOPLE.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, SPEAKING OF YOUR DAUGHTER, YOU WRITE ABOUT HER, I BELIEVE IN DAYCARE, YOU COME TO PICK HER UP.

SHE'S PLAYING WITH A BLUE EYED WHITE DOLL.

YOUR WIFE DOES IT THE NEXT DAY, BLUE EYED WHITE DOLL, ON AND ON BLUE EYED WHITE DOLL AND THAT LEAVES YOU TO DESCRIBE SOMETHING CALLED THE DOLL PET AND WHO TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> MIAMI FIPS AS WELL AS HER HUSBAND IN THE EARLY 1940S THEY TESTED BLACK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS IN MASSACHUSETTS AS WELL AS IN THE DEEP SOUTH AND ASSESSED WHETHER THEY HAD A PREFERENCE FOR WHITE DOLLS OR BLACK-LOOKING DOLLS.

AND MOST OF THESE BLACK CHILDREN PREFERRED A WHITE DOLL AND ACTUALLY RECENTLY ANOTHER PSYCHOLOGIST DID A SIMILAR STUDY AND FOUND THAT BOTH BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN TEND TO PREFER A WHITE DOLL WHICH IS CALLED WHITE BIAS.

AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY MY BOOK, HOW TO RAISE ANTIRACISM, ENCOURAGING PARENTS AND TEACHERS TO REALIZE THAT WE HAVE TO ACTIVELY ENSURE THAT OUR KIDS ARE NOT ATTACHES NEGATIVITY OR POSITIVITY TO SKIN COLOR.

WE JUST CAN'T ASSUME THAT IF WE DON'T ENCOURAGE THEM TO RECOGNIZE RACIALLY EQUALITY THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BELIEVE IT OR SEE IT FOR THEMSELVES.

>> THIS MAY BE OBVIOUS BUT YOU MENTION, WELL, NOT THE FACTS BUT THE IMPACT, YOU MENTION THAT THERE WERE BLACK DOLLS FOR THE FIRST TIME I THINK IN THE LATE '60S.

YOU MENTIONED EVEN DAR BEE AND HER BOYFRIEND, DIVERSIFYING IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF WAYS MUCH LATER I THINK IN THE EARLY PART OF THE 20th-- DATA THAT SHOWS THAT THOSE CHANGES LEAD TO DRAMATIC PERCEPTION CHANGES ABOUT THE WORLD, IS THERE NOT?

>> NOT ONLY DIVERSIFYING OUR TOOLBOX, CAN ENSURE THAT OUR KIDS ARE SEEING THE ENTIRETY OF THE HUMAN RAINBOW BUT DIVERSIFYING OUR LIBRARY, DIVERSIFYING OUR COMMUNITY, EVEN DIVERSIFYING OUR FRIENDS HAS SHOWN TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE RACIAL ATTITUDES OF OUR CHILDREN.

SO THERE ARE SO MANY NONVERBAL CHOICES THAT WE MAKE AS TEACHERS AND PATIENTS, THAT ACTUALLY AFFECT THE RACIAL ATTITUDES OF CHILDREN, PARTICULARLY YOUNG CHILDREN AND OFTENTIMES THOSE NONVERBAL CHOICES LIKE WHETHER WE ARE DIVERSIFYING A TOOLBOX ACTUALLY HAS MORE IMPACT OR IS MORE INFLUENTIAL IN THE RACIAL ATTITUDES OF YOUNG CHILDREN THAN EVEN WHAT WE SAY OR DON'T SAY ABOUT RACISM.

>> YOU KNOW, I'M SURE ARE YOU WATCHING THE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON CONFIRMATION HEARING BUT I'M EQUALLY SURE YOU ARE SURPRISED TO SEE SENATOR CRUZ FROM TEXAS HOLDING UP ONE OF YOUR BOOKS WHEN HE IS HOLDING UP A BUNCH OF BOOKS THAT HE CONSIDERED TO BE OBJECTIONABLE, YOUR BOOK IN PARTICULAR, ANTIRACIST BABY, HERE IS PART OF WHAT CRUZ HAD TO SAY IN A PRETTY POWERFUL PART OF THE RESPONSE FROM NOW JUSTICE JACKSON.

>> DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS BOOKS THAT IS BEING TAUGHT WITH KIDS THAT BABIES ARE RACIST?

>> SENATOR,.

>> BOY, THAT SIGH AND THAT PAUSE WERE PRETTY POWERFUL STUFF.

THE GOOD NEWS, AND I GUESS THERE IS GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR BOOK SALE AFTER CRUZ HELD UP YOUR BOOK.

>> A FEW PEOPLE GOT THE BOOK.

>> Braude: NOT A FEW PEOPLE, EXPLODED, RIGHT.

BUT WHAT IS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU SEE A NATIONAL STAGE LIKE THAT, YOU READ ABOUT ANOTHER SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT SAYS KENDI'S BOOK CAN'T BE THERE BECAUSE THEY TEACH YOUNG KID TASK THAT WHITE-- WHITE KIDS HAVE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THEMSELVES, HOW DO YOU REACT TO THAT?

BNS I THINK IT'S TRAGIC.

BECAUSE JUST AS SENATOR CRUZ DISTORTED THE BOOK AND THEN ATTACKED HIS OWN DISTORTION, SO TOO IS HIS DISTORTION THAT MY BOOK TEACH WHITE CHILDREN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT THEY SHOULD SEE THEMSELVES AS EQUAL TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT SKILL COLOR AND THAT'S REALLY ALL MY-- THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN MESSAGES MY BOOK ARE CONVEYING, IT CONVEYS TO KIDS OF COLOR THAT THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU.

BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN, AND THESE BOOKS CONVEY TO WHITE CHILDREN THAT THEY'RE SPECIAL WHEN THEY'RE NICE AND SPECIAL WHEN THEY SHARE.

BUT THEY'RE NOT SPECIAL BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR.

I THINK THOSE ARE THE MESSAGES WE SHOULD BE TEACHING OUR CHILDREN SO THAT THEY CAN VIEW AND RECOGNIZE RACIAL EQUALITY.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, I'M ON AN HE INTERNAL SEARCH FOR HOPE AND WHEN YOU WERE HERE LAST TIME I ASKED YOU ESSENTIALLY I'M PARAFRAIZING, HOW REQUEST YOU BE HOPEFUL, YOU SAID SOMETHING LIKE THE ABOLITIONIST SAID WE'RE GOING TO GET RID OF SLAVERY.

EVERYBODY THOUGHT THEY WERE CRAZY.

AND NOW YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE OF US WHO BELIEVE WE CAN CREATE AN ANTIRACIST SOCIETY T IS OBVIOUS FROM THERE, SINCE I LAW YOU LAST, WHITE SUPREMACY IS ON THE RISE.

VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS ARE ON THE RISE.

EFFORTS AT POLICE REFORM HAVE STALLED.

ARE YOU STILL EMBRACES THIS SPIRIT OF HOPE?

>> WELL, YEAH.

AND OF COURSE SLAVERY ENDED BY 1865.

BUT IN THE 18 50S, THE SLAVE POWER WAS ON THE RISE.

AND YOU KNOW, MILITARILY, ECONOMICICALLY, POLITICALLY, WHITE SUPREMACY WAS ON THE RISE IN THE 18 50S, BY 1857 THE U.S. SUPREME COURT STATED THAT BLACK PEOPLE COULD NOT BE AND WERE NOT, YOU KNOW, CITIZENS BECAUSE THEY WERE INFERIOR.

BUT OF COURSE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT OR AROUND THE CORNER FROM THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF NATION ESPECIALLY AS RELATED TO SLAVERY.

SO I STILL HAVE HOPE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE COULD ABOLISH RACISM AND RECONSTRUCT THIS SOCIETY IN EQUITABLE AND JUST FASHION.

>> BEFORE WE STARTED I SAID TO YOU THAT YOUR BOOK IS TERRIFIC.

MY KIDS ARE 28 AND 30 AND I WISH I HAD IT ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO.

I WILL REIT ATE ON AIR I WISH I HAD HAD IT ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO.

>> I WISH I HAD IT WHEN I FIRST STARTED, PARENTING AND EDUCATING TOO.

BUT I AM A SO GLAD IT IS HOW TO RAISE AN ANTIRACIST IS OUT,.

>> Braude: I'M SO GLAD IT IS OUT SO GOOD TO SIGH, BE WELL.

>> THANK YOU.

THE BOOK AGAIN IS HOW TO RAISE AN ANTIRACIST THRARKS IS IT FOR TONIGHT, PLEASE COME BACK TOMORROW FOR A RECATCH THE MAJOR TAKEAWAYS FROM DAY FIVE OF THE JANUARY 6th HEARING.

FORMER WATERGATE PROSECUTOR JILL WINE-BANKS WILL JOIN ME FOR HER ANALYSIS.

THE HEARING STARTS AT 3:00 AND A REMINDER LISTEN LIVER ON GBH RADIO, 89.7.

ALSO STREAM THE HEARINGS LIVER AT GBH NEWS.ORG OR CATCH THEM LIVE ON THE GBH WORLD CLAN EL SWI OFFERING A FULL REAIRING AT 3 A.M.

IN THE MORNING.

FOR NOW THANKS FOR WATCHING, PLEASE DON'T FORGET UKRAINE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org