>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": THE BATTLE OVER HOW TO TREAT GIG ECONOMY WORKERS FOR COMPANIES LIKE UBER, LYFT, AND INSTACART, WITH ONE COALITION PUSHING FOR FULL-EMPLOYEE STATUS AND ANOTHER WHO WANTS TO KEEP THEM AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.

IN CALIFORNIA THIS STANDOFF LED TO THE MOST EXPENSIVE BALLOT CAMPAIGN EVER.

BOTH SIDES JOIN ME TO DEBATE.

THEN, LATER, WILLIAM ALLEN HAS BEEN IN PRISON SINCE HE WAS 20 FOR A MURDER HE WAS PRESENT FOR BUT DIDN'T COMMIT.

AND THE MAN WHO DID?

HE'S BEEN OUT ON PAROLE FOR A DECADE.

NOW ALLEN AND HIS SUPPORTERS ARE ASKING THE STATE FOR CLEMENCY, INCLUDING FORMER SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT JUSTICE ROBERT CORDY, WHO WILL MAKE THE CASE FOR A COMMUTATION.

AND, FINALLY, THE EVOLUTION OF COPLEY SQUARE.

♪♪ >> Braude: THE FIGHT OVER JUST WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A WORKER IN THE GIG ECONOMY IS RAMPING UP IN MASSACHUSETTS, AND IT COULD BE COMING SOON TO A VOTING BOOTH NEAR YOU.

ON ONE SIDE: THE NEWLY-FORMED COALITION TO PROTECT WORKERS RIGHTS, INCLUDING ORGANIZED LABOR AND DELIVERY DRIVERS, WHO WANT TO BE CONSIDERED EMPLOYEES INSTEAD OF INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, WHICH IS WHAT COMPANIES LIKE UBER AND LYFT CURRENTLY CONSIDER THEIR DRIVERS.

AT A STATE HOUSE RALLY YESTERDAY, THEY ARGUED THE CLASSIFICATION ALLOWS THE MASSIVE COMPANIES TO DENY THEIR DRIVERS PAID VACATION AND SICK LEAVE, HEALTH INSURANCE, AND OTHER BENEFITS.

>> RIGHT NOW WE DON'T HAVE NO BENEFITS.

IF I GET INJURED OR KILLED, THERE IS NO PROTECTION.

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST BENEFIT BEHIND DOING THIS KIND OF WORK IS THAT I'M MY OWN BOSS.

>> Braude: ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE MASSACHUSETTS COALITION FOR INDEPENDENT WORK ARGUES FOR FLEXIBILITY AND WANTS TO KEEP THEIR WORKERS AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.

AND, NO SURPRISE, THEY'VE GOT THE BACKING OF ALL THE MAJOR COMPANIES INVOLVED, INCLUDING UBER, LYFT, POST-MATES, INSTACART, AND MORE.

THAT GROUP IS ADVOCATING FOR A LEGISLATIVE SOLUTION ON BEACON HILL.

BUT IF THAT FAILS, THEY'RE CONSIDERING A POSSIBLE 2022 BALLOT QUESTION, ONE SIMILAR TO PROP 22 IN CALIFORNIA IN 2020, ON WHICH MORE THAN $200 MILLION WAS SPENT.

I'M JOINED NOW BY A SPOKESMAN FOR THE MASSACHUSETTS COALITION FOR INDEPENDENT WORK, CONNOR YUNITS, WHO ALSO JOINED US LAST FALL TO ARGUE AGAINST THE RIGHT TO REPAIR THE BALLOT QUESTION: AND MICHAEL FIRESTONE, THE DIRECTOR OF THE COALITION TO PROTECT WORKERS' RIGHTS.

>> Braude: MIKE, WELCOME TO YOU.

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Braude: THANK YOU.

CONNOR, IF I CAN START WITH YOU, YOU WANT THESE GIG WORKERS TO STAY INDEPENDENT, NOT BE EMPLOYEES.

BRIEFLY, WHY?

>> IT IS NOT WHAT I WANT, JIM.

IT IS WHAT THE WORKERS OVERWHELMING WANT.

NO MATTER HOW YOU ASK THE QUESTION, NO MATTER WHICH STATE YOU ASK IT IN, INCLUDING IN MASSACHUSETTS, WORKERS OVERWHELMING PREFER TO BE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.

IT IS 66%.

IF YOU ASK THEM IF THEY WOULD PREFER A THIRD WAY OF BEING AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR BUT GETTING BENEFITS, THAT NUMBER GOES UP TO 83%.

>> Braude: I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE POLL, BUT I REPEAT THE QUESTION: WHY DO YOU CONTEND THEY WOULD RATHER BE INDEPENDENT RATHER THAN WORKERS WITH BENEFITS.

>> WORKERS VALUE THEIR FREEDOM MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

THEY USE TO FREEDOM TO CARE FOR CHILDREN.

TO GO TO SCHOOL, TO FIT AROUND THEIR SCHEDULES.

THAT FLEXIBILITY DOES NOT EXIST IN THE TRADITIONAL ECONOMY.

AND THAT'S PRIMARILY WHY THEY CHOOSE THIS INDEPENDENT WORK.

>> Braude: MIKE, WHY SHULD THEY BE EMPLOYEES?

>> FIRST OF ALL, JIM, THAT'S WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES RIGHT NOW.

THESE BIG TECH COMPANIES HAVE SAVED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BY NOT PAYING THEIR WORKERS FAIRLY, NOT REIMBURSING THEM FOR GAS, NO PROVIDING ANY BENEFITS, AND NOT FOLLOWING THE LAW, WHICH APPLIES TO EVERY SMALL BUSINESS IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THESE BIG TECH COMPANIES DON'T WANT THE LAW TO APPLY TO THEM.

>> Braude: MIKE, HOW ABOUT THIS -- MIKE, HOW ABOUT THIS FLEXIBILITY ISSUE THAT BOTH CONNOR MENTIONED AND A COUPLE OF THE DRIVERS WHO WERE AT THEIR EVENT MENTIONED?

HOW ABOUT THE FLEXIBILITY ISSUE?

>> WE KNOW THE WORKERS VALUE FLEXIBILITY, AND THAT FLEXIBILITY IS ALSO CENTRAL TO THE BUSINESS MODEL OF THESE COMPANIES.

WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT MASSACHUSETTS LAW ENCOURAGES FLEXIBILITY FOR WORKERS.

THESE COMPANIES COULD DO THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT THEY SHOULD ALSO PROVIDE THE SAME CIVIL RIGHTS PROTECTIONS, PROTECTIONS AGAINST SEXUAL HARASSMENT EVERY OTHER COMPANY.

>> Braude: MIKE, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

CAN YOU GIVE ME A PROFILE.

THERE ARE ROUGHLY 200,000 OF THEM, BUT WHO ARE THEY?

>> WELL, WE KNOW THAT ALTHOUGH THE DATA IN MASSACHUSETTS ISN'T PERFECT, 70% OF DRIVERS ARE BLACK, BROWN, OR IMMIGRANT WORKERS.

WHILE MANY ARE WORKING PART-TIME, AN INCREASING NUMBER OF THE RIDES THAT ARE GIVEN AND THE DELIVERIES THAT ARE MADE ARE DONE BY WORKERS WHO ARE ESSENTIALLY WORKING FULL-TIME.

THAT'S WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT THEY BE ABLE TO EARN A MINIMUM WAGE AND BE ABLE TO TAKE A SICK DAY.

THEY'RE SOME OF THE BIGGEST COMPANIES AND THEY DON'T PROVIDE THE SAME BENEFITS AS THE SMALL COMPANIES.

>> Braude: CONNOR, BACK TO YOU, YOU SAY YOU'RE JUST GIVING THESE DRIVERS WHAT THEY WANT, BUT IS IT NOT NAIVE FOR VOTERS TO ASSUME THAT A BIG PART OF THIS IS THAT THE COMPANIES THEMSELVES WANT TO MAXIMIZE THEIR PROFITS, IN THESE CASES, BY SAVING ON THINGS LIKE HEALTH COVERAGE, RETIREMENT, AND OTHER BENEFITS?

>> JIM, IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS A NEW ECONOMIC MODEL.

IT IS NOT A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL.

82% OF THESE DRIVERS IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE DRIVING FEWER THAN 15 HOURS A WEEK, AND SOME ARE DOING LESS THAN FIVE HOURS A WEEK.

IT SOUNDS FOR THE LAST MAJORITY OF DRIVERS, IT IS GIG WORK AND THIS FLEXIBILITY THAT MAKES IT WORK.

IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT THAT FLEXIBILITY EXISTS IN THE TRADITIONAL MARKET AND ECONOMY, THINK ABOUT ANY JOB ANYONE HERE HAS EVER HAD.

I CAN'T WALK IN THE DUNKIN DOUGHNUTS AND SAY I'M GOING TO POUR COFFEE FOR 15 MINUTES AND THEN GO PICK UP MY KID FROM SCHOOL.

IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT IN THE TRADITIONAL ECONOMY.

TO IMPLY THAT THIS FLIX FLEXIBILITY WOULD EXIST IN THIS ECONOMY IS NOT TRUE.

>> Braude: CONNOR, ARE WE TO BELIEVE THAT THE COMPANIES YOU REPRESENT SPENT $200 MILLION ON A BALLOT QUESTION PURELY BECAUSE THEY WANTED AN OUTCOME THAT WAS BENEFICIAL TO THEIR DRIVERS?

REALLY?

>> WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA IS NOT THE SAME AS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

WE HAVE GREAT FAITH IN THE ABILITY OF THE LEGISLATURE TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE -- >> Braude: HOW?

HOW?

WHAT DO YOU SUPPORT IN THE LEGISLATURE, CONNOR?

>> WE SUPPORT ANY LEGISLATION THAT MAINTAINS THE INDEPENDENCE OF DRIVERS WHILE PROVIDING THEM BENEFITS THEY'RE NOT GETTING TODAY.

>> Braude: I READ ABOUT THIS BILL, THE SO-CALLED THIRD WAY, THAT WOULD PUT A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF WHAT THEY MAKE ASIDE, THAT THE WORKER COULD USE FOR HEALTH COVERAGE, RETIREMENT, IF THEY'RE SICK, THAT SORT OF THING.

WITHOUT NEGOTIATING WHAT THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT IS, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT APPROACH AS A COMPROMISE TO AVOID A WILDLY EXPENSIVE, CONFUSING BALLOT CAMPAIGN?

>> WELL, JIM, FIRST OFF, I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THE FACT THAT THESE COMPANIES ARE WILLING TO SPEND $100 MILLION TO AVOID REIMBURSEING A DRIVER FOR A TANK OF GAS IS TROUBLING TO EVERYBODY.

IN TERMS OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THE BILL -- I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD READ IT -- IT SAYS THEY'LL KICK IN FOUR CENTS ON TOP OF EVERY DOLLAR YOU EARN IF YOU WORK A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF HOURS.

THAT IS SUPPOSED TO RECOVER YOUR RETIREMENT, YOUR VACATION, A SICK DAY, YOU'RE HEALTH CARE -- THESE IDEAS ARE ABOUT HOW THESE COMPANIES CAN SPEND $100 MILLION IN ORDER TO SAVE BILLIONS FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR INVESTORS.

>> Braude: MIKE, I'M SORRY TO BELABOR THIS, FORGET THE 4% FOR A MOMENT.

THE APPROACH, IF IT WAS 10%, IF YOU COULD PICK THE NUMBER FOR ARGUMENT SAKE, IS THAT APPROACH ONE YOUR SIDE WOULD CONSIDER IF THE WORKER, HIM OR HERSELF, COULD SAY I'M GOING TO SPEND THIS MONEY ON THE THINGS THAT I'M NOT GETTING THAT AN EMPLOYEE MIGHT?

>> WELL, I THINK AT A CERTAIN POINT WHAT YOU WOULD BE SAYING IS, IF THE BILL SAID WE'LL DO EVERYTHING -- WE'LL GIVE YOU ALL OF THE BREAKS THAT YOU'RE CURRENTLY ENTITLED TO UNDER THE LAW, WE WOULDN'T REALLY BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.

THE ISSUE IS THESE COMPANIES DO NOT WANT TO FOLLOW THE LAW AND DO NOT WANT TO ABIDE BY THE BASIC STANDARDS, LIKE REIMBURSEMENT FOR GAS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ANY OTHER EMPLOYER IN MASSACHUSETTS HAS TO ABIDE BY.

WE WANT FLEXIBILITY, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE STARTING AT A PLACE WHERE THE COMPANIES AGREE TO THE BASIC BARGAIN THAT ALL EMPLOYERS IN THE STAY AGREE TO.

>> Braude: CONNOR, ASSUMING YOU DON'T GET YOUR WAY ON THE LEGISLATURE, AUGUST 40th IS4thIS THE DATE THEY NEED TO BE FILED WITH 10 SIGNATURES TO THE STATE, IF BEACON HILL DOESN'T DO SOMETHING SATISFACTORY TO YOUR CLIENTS, DO YOU START A BALLOT CAMPAIGN, HEADING TO THE NOVEMBER 2022 BALLOT?

>> WE'RE EXTREMELY EARLY IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

WE'RE SIX MONTHS INTO A TWO-YEAR CYCLE.

SO SOME STEPS HAVE TO BE TAKEN BASED ON THE CALENDAR.

BUT THIS IS STILL VERY EARLY IN THE CYCLE, AND WE CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT THE LEGISLATURE WILL ACT.

EVEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HERSELF SPEAKING TO THE BOSTON CHAMBER A FEW WEEKS AGO, SAID WITH THE GROWTH OF THE LAWS, THEY NEED TO LOOK -- >> Braude: BUT THE LEGISLATURE MOVES ON EVERYTHING AT A SNAIL'S PACE.

LET ME REPEAT: IF THEY DON'T HAVE A PRODUCT ON THE GOVERNOR'S DESK BY AUGUST 4, WILL YOU GUYS START A BALLOT CAMPAIGN?

>> WE'LL CERTAINLY BE LOOKING AT THE PRELIMINARY STEPS SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE TIMELINE.

>> Braude: MIKE, THE LAST THING FOR YOU, I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED EARLIER THAT YOUR FORMER BOSS USED TO WORK FOR MAURA HEALEY, HAS A LAWSUIT PENDING TO AFFIRM WHAT YOU AND SHE BELIEVE IS THE STATE OF THE CURRENT LAW.

JUST TO BE CLEAR FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY END UP VOTING ON THIS NEXT YEAR, EVEN IF MAURA HEALEY WERE TO WIN HER LAWSUIT, IF THE LEGISLATURE DOES SOMETHING LIKE CONNOR AND HIS PEOPLE WANT, OR THE PEOPLE NEXT NOVEMBER APPROVE A BALLOT QUESTION PROPOSED BY CONNOR'S PEOPLE, MAURA HEALEY'S LITIGATION IS NULL AND VOID, CORRECT?

>> THE COMPANIES, UBER, LYFT, OR DOOR DASH ARE SPENDING ALL OF THIS MONEY TO CHANGE THE LAW.

THEY WANT TO DISMANTLE THE CIVIL RIGHTS, WAGES, AND PROTECTION BENEFITS FOR THESE WORKERS, YES.

>> Braude: EVEN IF MAURA HEALEY IS SUCCESSFUL, THE LEGISLATOR'S OUTCOME OR THE VOTERS' OUTCOME WILL CARRY THE DAY?

>> THERE IS A QUESTION IF THE WORKERS WILL HAVE ALL OF THE RIGHTS TO WAGES AND BENEFITS THEY'RE CURRENTLY BEING DENIED RIGHT NOW, BUT ON A FORWARD-GOING BASIS, IF THE LAW GETS CHANGED, IF IT IS EVISCERATED BY THE COMPANIES, THAT WOULD BE THE LAW.

>> Braude: CONNOR AND MICHAEL, I'M SURE I'LL SEE YOU PLENTY IN THE DAYS AND MONTHS AHEAD.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS, JIM.

>> THANKS, JIM.

>> Braude: NEXT UP, IN HIS NEARLY SIX YEARS AS GOVERNOR, CHARLIE BAKER HAS YET TO COMMUTE A SINGLE PRISON SENTENCE, AND SO FAR, THE STATE PAROLE BOARD HAS ONLY HELD TWO CLEMENS SEE HEARINGS.

ONE THIS PAST JANUARY, IN WHICH THEY UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED TO DOWNGRADE THE FIRST-DEGREE MURDER CONVICTION OF FORMER MARINE THOMAS KOONCE SO THAT HE'S IMMEDIATELY ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE.

HE'S STILL AWAITING A FINAL DECISION FROM THE GOVERNOR.

AND THE BOARD HELD ITS SECOND HEARING LAST WEEK FOR WILLIAM ALLEN.

ALLEN AND HIS FRIEND, ROLANDO PERRY, WENT TO THE BROCKTON HOME OF A MAN NAMED PURVIS BESTER ONE NIGHT IN JANUARY 1994, BOTH ARMED WITH KNIVES.

THEY WERE PLANNING TO ROB HIM, BUT WHEN THEY GOT THERE, PERRY STABBED BESTER SEVERAL TIMES, KILLING HIM.

THEY WERE ARRESTED SHORTLY AFTER, AND EVEN THOUGH ALLEN HAD BEEN IN ANOTHER ROOM AND DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE FATAL STABBING, THEY WERE BOTH CHARGED WITH MURDER.

PERRY PLED GUILTY TO SECOND-DEGREE MURDER CHARGES AND WAS RELEASED ON PAROLE MORE THAN A DECADE AGO.

BUT ALLEN REFUSED THE PLEA DEAL AND WAS ULTIMATELY CONVICTED OF FIRST-DEGREE MURDER UNDER EXISTING LAW AT THE TIME, AND RECEIVED A SENTENCE OF LIFE IN PRISON, WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE.

HE WAS 20 YEARS OLD THEN.

HE'S NOW 47, SPENDING MORE THAN HALF OF HIS LIFE IN PRISON.

BUT NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN NEARLY THREE DECADES, HE'S GOT A REAL CHANCE OF GETTING OUT, WITH ADVOCACY ORGANIZATIONS AND SEVERAL PROMINENT FIGURES, INCLUDING THE PATRIOTS' DEVIN McCOURTY, URGING THE STATE TO COMMUTE HIS SENTENCE.

AND IN LAST WEEK'S HEARING, WILLIAM ALLEN TOLD THE BOARD: "I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO FORGET WHAT I'VE DONE.

I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT'S NOT WHO I AM TODAY.

AND IF I'M GIVEN THE CHANCE AT FREEDOM, I WANT TO MAKE GOOD FOOTPRINTS FOR CHILDREN OF COLOR TO FOLLOW BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM TO FOLLOW THE SAME FOOTPRINTS I DID."

NEXT, THE PAROLE BOARD WILL MAKE THEIR RECOMMENDATION.

IF THEY APPROVE, THE NEXT VOTE IS GOVERNOR BAKER'S.

I'M JOINED NOW BY ONE OF ALLEN'S STAUNCHEST ADVOCATES, AND HIS CO-COUNSEL, FORMER SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT JUSTICE ROBERT CORDY.

HE WAS ALSO CHIEF LEGAL COUNSEL TO GOVERNOR BILL WELD IN THE EARLY '90s.

>> Braude: JUSTICE CORDY, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> Braude: WHY DOES WILLIAM ALLEN DESERVE RELEASE?

>> I MUST SAY, ABOUT 15MONTHS AGO HIS LAWYERS AT THE TIME, KRISTIN McDONALD AND PAT DEJUNIS CAME TO ME AND SAID, WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO LOOK AT THIS PETITION AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK AND MAYBE YOU'LL JOIN US.

I LOOKED AT IT VERY CAREFULLY, AND I WAS BLOWN AWAY.

IT WAS THE MOST COMPELLING COMMUTATION PETITION I HAD EVER SEEN.

THIS MAN IN 27 YEARS HAS COMPLETELY REMADE HIS LIFE.

HE HAD BECOME GENEROUS, KIND TO A FAULT, TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF EVERY PRISON PROGRAM OFFERED, EVEN GOT -- EVEN REQUESTED THAT HE BEEN MOVED TO ANOTHER PRISON SO HE COULD TAKE MORE PROGRAMS.

HE HAD BECOME A COMPANION PRISONER, WORKING WITH OTHER PRISONERS WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

AND EVERYONE JUST REALLY FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM, FOR ALL OF THE RIGHT REASONS.

>> Braude: MY UNDERSTANDING IS ALSO, UNDER VERY ODD CIRCUMSTANCES, THE PROSECUTORS OFFICE -- THE PROSECUTOR SUPPORTS THE COMMUNETATION,COMMUTATION, AS DO MOST OF THE FAMILY.

IS RACE WHAT YOU'RE PUTTING BEFORE THE BOARD?

>> WE'RE NOT PUTTING THAT BEFORE THE BOARD, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE MASSACHUSETTS PRISON SYSTEM, IT IS HIGHLY POPULATED, PARTICULARLY THE LIFERS, WITH BLACK PEOPLE.

BUT, NO, THAT'S NOT A FACTOR HERE.

WHAT IS A FACTOR IS WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR HIMSELF AND HOW HE HAS REMADE HIMSELF AND DONE EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO BECOME ELIGIBLE TO RETURN TO THE COMMUNITY.

AND, AS YOU POINTED OUT, THE COMMUNITY IS VERY SUPPORTIVE OF HIS COMING BACK.

AND, OF COURSE, AS YOU ALSO POINTED OUT, THE ONE WHO PERSUADED HIM TO BE INVOLVED IN THE ROBBERY, AND WHO ACTUALLY KILLED MR. BESTER, OF COURSE, HAS BEEN PAROLLED 10 OR 12 YEARS AGO.

>> Braude: I WANT TO RETURN TO THAT ISSUE IN A SECOND.

BUT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE AND SEE IF YOU SEE IT AS RELEVANT.

AS YOU KNOW, THE LAW WAS CHANGED IN 2017 BY.

S.J.C., AND YOU WERE LONG GONE BY THEN, WHERE THEY DETERMINED, ESSENTIALLY, UNLESS THERE IS PRIOR INTENT, WHICH NO ONE IS ARGUING IN THE CASE OF MR. ALLEN, WHEN HE WENT TO THIS PERSON'S LOCATION -- UNLESS THERE IS PRIOR INTENTION, FIRST-DEGREE MURDER IS OFF THE TABLE.

EVEN THOUGH THE LAW IS NOT RETROACTIVE, IS THAT NOT RELEVANT TO THE CONSIDERATION OF A PAROLE BOARD?

>> WELL, I THINK IT SHOULD BE RELEVANT, BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS WHO HE HAS BECOME.

THE CIRCUMSTANCES, BOTH THE FACT THAT HE IS SERVING LIFE WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE BECAUSE HE WAS TOO YOUNG AND NOT ABLE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY THEN.

HE HAS NOW.

AND THE FACT THAT THE LAW HAS CHANGED, AND HE COULDN'T EVEN BE PROSECUTED OR CONVICTED TODAY OF FIRST DEGREE FELONY MURDER.

I THINK IT IS VERY RELEVANT.

AND I THINK THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY NOTABLY RECOGNIZED THAT IN HIS REMARKS TO THE BOARD OF PARDONS.

>> Braude: JUSTICE CORDY, KNOWING I WAS GOING TO HAVE YOU HERE, I DECIDED I WOULD PRETEND I WAS THE FORMER JUSTICE OF THE S.J.C., AND DO WHAT YOU GUYS AND WOMEN DO FOR A LIVING, WHICH IS ASK TOUGH QUESTIONS, EVEN IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE UNDERLYING PREMISE IN THE QUESTION.

SO LET ME GIVE IT A TRY.

I WAS TRYING TO COME UP WITH ONE GOOD ARGUMENT AS TO WHY WILLIAM ALLEN SHOULD NOT BE RELEASED AFTER SPENDING MORE THAN HALF OF HIS LIFE IN JAIL FOR ALL OF THE REASONS THAT YOU'VE MENTIONED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MINUTES.

CAN YOU MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR THE OTHER SIDE HERE?

>> NO.

AND IT'S -- >> Braude: A MAN OF FEW WORDS.

>> IT IS REMARKABLE THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY THEMSELVES CAME AND SAID THIS IS A WORTHY CASE.

>> Braude: CAN WE STEP BACK FOR A SECOND.

I WANT TO PUT SOME NUMBERS UP.

WE LOOKED AT SOME WORK THAT THE W.B.R.

AND THE GLOBE HAD DONE.

THERE IS SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 250 TO 300 300 CLEMENCY REQUESTS.

THAT'S APPROXIMATE.

TWO HEARINGS TOTAL, ZERO COMMUTATIONS SO FAR.

MAYBE MR. KOONCES WILL GET ONE AND MR. ALLEN.

WHY IS THERE SO LITTLE TIME SPENT ON WHETHER MEN AND WOMEN HAVE CHANGED THEIR MINDS AND DESERVE FREEDOM?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT WAY.

IF YOU LOOK AT GOVERNOR BAKER'S CLEMENCY GUIDELINES, THEY POINT OUT VERY IMPORTANTLY THE COMMUTATIONS ARE TO SERVE AS A MOTIVATION FOR CONFINED PERSONS TO UTILIZE ALL OF THE RESOURCES FOR SELF-DEVELOPMENT AND SELF-IMPROVEMENT, AS AN INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO RETURN AS LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

BUT IF THERE ARE NO HEARINGS AND NO CONSIDERATIONS, THEN THAT INCENTIVE IS GONE.

SO I WOULD HOPE THAT THESE TWO CASES, KOONCE AND ALLEN, WILL BREAK THE ICE AND CAN POINT OUT HOW THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT AND CAN BE WELL-DONE.

>> Braude: YOU WROTE A PIECE ABOUT THIS IN THE GLOBE LAST JULY, AND YOU CITED THE REQUEST FOR A HEARING HAD BEEN FILED THREE AND A HALF YEARS BEFORE.

AM I RIGHT ABOUT THAT, AS WE'RE SITTING HERE, IT HAS BEEN FOUR AND A HALF YEARS SINCE MR. ALLEN HAS REQUESTED COMMUTATION THROUGH THE STATE?

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> YES.

RIGHT.

IT'S NOT UNUSUAL.

>> Braude: NOT UNUSUAL -- WELL, AT LEAST HE IS GETTING A HEARING, WHICH IS UNUSUAL, UNFORTUNATELY.

YOU WROTE SOMETHING BEFORE THAT I'D LIKE TO SPEND MAYBE 60 SECONDS ON.

THE GUY WHO ACTUALLY WAS THE KILLER PLED GUILTY AND IS OUT, AS I SAID, AND AS YOU SAID, ROUGHLY A DECADE AGO.

A GUY WHO CHOSE TO GO TO TRIAL, YOUR CLIENT, COULD SPEND THE REST OF HIS LIFE IN JAIL.

ISN'T THERE A FUNDAMENTAL UNFAIRNESS IN THAT?

EVEN IF MR. ALLEN HADN'T REFORMED HIMSELF, EVEN IF ALL OF THE OTHER OBJECTIVE CONDITIONS YOU MENTIONED WERE NOT THERE, HOW IS IT EVER EQUITABLE THAT THE MAN OR WOMAN WHO DOES THE CRIME IS FREE, AND THE MAN OR WOMAN WHO WAS -- AND I'M USING THE TERM LOOSELY -- WAS AN COMPLIC AND NOTACCCOMPLICE AND NOT THE COMMITTER OF THE ACT SPENDS HIS LIFE IN JAIL.

HOW IS THAT FAIR?

>> I THINK THEY ARE TRYING TO REDUCE THAT LEVEL OF UNFAIRNESS FOR SURE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, MR. ALLEN WAS A YOUNG MAN, COULDN'T COME TO GRIPS WITH THE FACT THAT THE LAW THEN MADE HIM AS CULPABLE BECAUSE HE WAS AN ACCOMPLICE AND A FELONY.

DOES IT MAKE ANY SENSE LOOKING BACK ON IT?

IN THIS CASE, NO.

BUT HOPEFULLY THE COMMUTATION PROCESS WILL HELP RIGHT THE WRONG OR RIGHT THE INJUSTICE.

>> Braude: DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN MR. ALLEN WILL HEAR WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THE PAROLE BOARD IS.

AND EVEN IF HE GOT APPROVAL, IT HAS TO GO TO THE GOVERNOR -- DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE TIMETABLE IS?

>> I DON'T.

I ASSUME IT WOULD BE A COUPLE OF MONTHS BEFORE WE WOULD HEAR.

THE PAROLE BOARD IS BUSY DOING THE PAROLE SIDE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

BECAUSE THE CLEMENCY SIDE IS EQUALLY AS IMPORTANT.

>> Braude: JUSTICE CORDY, I WISH YOU LUCK.

IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SPOTS IN DOWNTOWN BOSTON WHERE THE PUBLIC REGULARLY GATHERS.

BOSTON COMMON IS GRITTIER AND THE PUBLIC GARDEN IS FANCIER, BUT BOTH ACT AS OASES, OFFERING A RESPITE FROM THE CITY.

THE ESPLANADE DOES SOMETHING SIMILAR, BUT COPELY SQUARE IS DIFFERENT.

INSTEAD OF PULLING VISITORS OUT OF BOSTON, IT MAKES THE CITY ITSELF GREENER AND MORE HUMANE.

COPLEY HAS EVOLVED DRAMATICALLY OVER THE YEARS, AND NOW IT'S ABOUT TO CHANGE YET AGAIN.

ADAM REILLY HAS MORE.

>> Reporter: AFTER A YEAR OF PANDEMIC-INDUCED ISOLATION, COPLEY SQUARE IS A BALM FOR THE SOUL RIGHT NOW.

ON ANY GIVEN DAY, IT BOASTS A STRIKINGLY DIVERSE ARRAY OF PEOPLE PASSING THROUGH AS THEY TRAVERSE THE BACK BAY, OR STOPPING TO REST, THINK, AND OBSERVE.

BUT IF COPLEY SQUARE IS A CASE STUDY IN BOSTON COMING BACK TO LIFE, IT'S ALSO SHOWING SIGNS OF STRESS.

>> YOU CAN SEE COMPACTED ROOT ZONES OF THE TREES, AND THE TREES THAT ARE SUFFERING FROM IT.

OCCASIONALLY YOU CAN SEE BALD PATCHES OF THE LAWN.

>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO THE BOSTON PARKS DEPARTMENT'S B. CHATFIELD, ALL THAT WEAR AND TEAR HIGHLIGHTS JUST HOW IN-DEMAND THE SQUARE HAS BECOME.

>> THE FARMERS' MARKET, WHICH IS THE LARGEST FARMERS' MARKET IN BOSTON, PROTESTS WHICH TEND TO DRAW PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE STATE AND SOMETIMES NEW ENGLAND.

>> Reporter: NOT TO MENTION THE MARATHON AND FIRST NIGHT.

BUT STARTING NEXT YEAR, COPLEY SQUARE WILL BE CLOSED FOR RENOVATIONS AND SOME REINVENTION.

AMONG THE CHANGES PLANNED: A NEW, SLIGHTLY ELEVATED PLATFORM ALONG THE SQUARE'S NORTHERN EDGE.

>> IT'S A VERY INTERESTING MULTI-SIDED SHAPE.

ON ONE SIDE OF THE PLATFORM, YOU'RE LOOKING OUT AT TRINITY.

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLATFORM, YOU'RE LOOKING OVER AT THE COPLEY PLAZA HOTEL.

ANOTHER IS THE LIBRARY; ANOTHER ENGAGES THE STREET.

>> Reporter: CREATING NEW SIGHTLINES AND PROTECTING THE SQUARE'S BELEAGUERED TREES AT GROUND LEVEL.

IN ADDITION, THE SQUARE'S OLD FOUNTAIN WILL BE SWAPPED OUT FOR A NEW, MORE MODERN FOUNTAIN CLOSE TO THE CENTER.

AND THE PAVED AREA BY THE TRINITY CHURCH WILL BE COVERED WITH GRASS, WITH A NEW PAVED AREA BUILT CLOSER TO THE BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY.

THAT'S THE PLAN, ANYWAY.

BUT SOME NEIGHBORS STILL HAVE RESERVATIONS.

>> LET'S SLOW DOWN A LITTLE BIT.

>> Reporter: ELLIOT LAFFER CHAIRS THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION OF THE BACK BAY.

HE'D LIKE TO SEE SOME ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE THE CITY PROCEEDS WITH MORE GREEN SPACE TOPPING HIS WISH LIST.

>> WE NEED GRASS.

THERE'S LESS GRASS IN THE DESIGN THAN THERE OUGHT TO BE.

>> Reporter: FOR THE RECORD, AMBIVALENCE ABOUT COPLEY SQUARE IS NOTHING NEW.

IT WAS INITIALLY KNOWN AS "ART SQUARE," IN HONOR OF THE ORIGINAL, NOW DEMOLISHED MUSEUM OF FINE ARTS.

YEARS AGO THE SQUARE WAS ALSO BISECTED DIAGONALLY BY HUNTINGTON AVENUE.

LATER IT WAS RE-IMAGINED AS A MODERN PIAZZA, WITH A DEPRESSED INTERIOR, AN APPROACH ALEX KREIGER OF HARVARD'S GRADUATE SCHOOL OF DESIGN CALLS DEEPLY MISGUIDED.

>> THAT WAS JUST A BAD IDEA.

IT RADIATED HEAT, ESPECIALLY DURING THE SUMMER, AND IN THE WINTER IT WAS JUST FULL OF SNOW.

>> Reporter: TODAY'S LAYOUT IS ONLY ABOUT THREE DECADES OLD, AND KREIGER SAYS IT REPRESENTS PARTIAL PROGRESS, WITH A PARK-LIKE FEEL IN PLACES BUT ELEMENTS OF THE LESS-WELCOMING PIAZZA .

APPROACH STILL LINGERING.

FOR COPLEY SQUARE TO REACH ITS POTENTIAL, KREIGER ARGUES, THE PARK COMPONENT SHOULD FINALLY TAKE PRECEDENCE.

>> ADD AN ADDITIONAL AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE, BUT NOT SIMPLY LAWN.

CERTAINLY ADD MORE COMFORTABLE SEATING.

PROVIDE THE COMFORTS PEOPLE EXPECT TO FIND IN AN URBAN PARK, AS OPPOSED TO AN ITALIAN PIAZZA.

>> Reporter: BUT RIGHT NOW, AFTER SURVEYING THE PUBLIC, THE CITY ALREADY THINKS IT'S APPROACHING THE RIGHT BALANCE.

>> THERE WAS ABOUT 25% WHO SAID WE WANT TOTAL CHANGE, AND 25% WHO SAID NOT SO MUCH, WE LOVE IT THE WAY IT IS.

>> Reporter: THE CURRENT REDESIGNER IS AIMED AT EVERYONE ELSE AND INTENDED TO BE A TUNE-UP BUT NOT A TRANSFORMATION.

ADAM REILLY, GBH NEWS.

>> Braude: THERE'S ANOTHER BIG CHANGE BREWING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

THE CITY OF BOSTON IS CONSIDERING OCCASIONALLY MAKING DARTMOUTH STREET, WHICH RUNS BETWEEN COPLEY SQUARE AND THE B.P.L., PEDESTRIAN-ONLY.

THEY'RE PLANNING A FEW TRIAL DAYS THIS FALL.

IF THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS -- AND I VOTE YES, BY THE WAY -- COPLEY SQUARE COULD BECOME EVEN MORE OF A GO-TO DESTINATION THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW.

AND, FINALLY TONIGHT, A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN SENDING IN AS WE WORK OUR WAY OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC.

JANINE SAID SHE SPENT THE DAY WALKING AROUND THE ADAMS HANCOCK COMMON IN QUINCY CENTER AND CAME ACROSS THESE BLOOMING ROSES.

ANN SENT US A PICTURE OF HER TWO DOGS AND CALLED THEM "BEST FRIENDS FOR LIFE."

HOW SWEET, ANN.

AND RICHARD SENT US THIS NINE-FOOT-HIGH STREET ART HE CREATED, CURRENTLY ON DISPLAY IN MARTHA'S VINEYARD.

VERY NICE, RICHARD.

THANK YOU ALL FOR SENDING THESE IN.

AS ALWAYS, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE, PLEASE SEND IT TO THE ADDRESSES ON YOUR SCREEN.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org