Thanks for joining us.

Our guest, this week is a Democratic candidate for the US Senate, former state representative Leslie love.

Our lead story legislative Democrats continue to dismantle Governor Rick Snyder's education agenda.

On the OTR panel Kyle Melinn Jonathan Oosting and Simon Schuster sit in with us as we get the inside out Off The Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Martin Waymire, a full-service strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at MartinWaymire.com.

And now this edition of off the record with Tim Skubick thank Thank you very much.

Welcome to Studio C. As we move into summer, the legislature is going to get out of town next week.

Will that be nice or not?

But before they go the Democrats it seems to be Kyle are systematically trying to send Rick Snyder a message that the stuff he didn't office, nobody liked, at least their supporters, don't like that's for sure.

What we're seeing is gradual committee movement on bills that roll back the reforms that him and the Republican legislature put in place.

Specifically as a relates, the teachers and the stuff that teachers can bargain for whether it's placement where they are time off pay these types of things are now being put on the table where they weren't on the Will be 4.

And also there are rolling back automatic deductions.

If you belong to a union that can get taken immediately out of your paycheck, that the Democrats want to bring this back entire laundry list of stuff.

And it's keeping the Democratic controlled legislature busy and the Republicans are going, what's happening to us?

Yeah I mean I think they probably saw this coming.

I mean Democrats have been doing this all term.

I mean right to work was the the biggie I mean it stands to reason that they would go after some of the No less sexy, but still highly sought-after changes by Union groups, and that's what they're doing.

Now, you know, one at a time, these teacher the teacher package, it's a big deal for the the public education Community.

They really want these things to happen, but of course, you know.

Well, you know, some of the changes made like, allowing seniority again, to be a factor and in hiring and firing decisions is, you know, Republicans can't end, that's going to make it more.

Foucault for new teachers at a time when the state really needs to be attracting more people to the profession.

So you know it's the same debate we heard ten years ago just in Reverse exactly nicely put.

Yeah, I mean organized labor is one of the Democrats largest constituencies and they clearly signaled that they wanted to deliver for them.

Should they gain control of Lansing?

And I think, you know, when you look at public sector unions in particular, they're not going to be able to reap the same benefits from right to work because the US Supreme Court decision that Auto Workers are for instance.

So, This is I think a really good example of Democrats wanting to nibble around the margins to show.

Look, we can still deliver for you since you've gone out.

You know you've gone to bat for us and so many instances even though we can't you know provide you the same benefits that we did two other, you know this seniority piece is an important one and the the education Library, the soups in the local school boards.

Basically are saying, look at, if you're a young person coming into our system and we want to keep you and you can't move up the ladder because you don't have seniority, that's a deterrent.

The other side says, seniority is Always been a part of Union contracts and we're talking to those young people to try to ameliorate that problem.

But that, that is a problem for the Republicans and the school boards and the soups for 10 years, Rick Snyder.

And the Republican legislature was trying to make performance-based improvements.

Are you know, if you're good in the classroom then you should be getting the pay raises.

You should be getting the prime spots, the prime teaching spots, and the unions were saying, the seniority has to be part of the equation.

Well, they, when they were in the minority, See, they didn't get any kind of consideration on that.

Well, now, that they're in the majority, they're trying to put seniority back in on the table because they're thing is, if you've been in the classroom 15-20 years, you've got experience to be able to handle some of these classroom dynamics.

But maybe somebody who's only been there two years, can't do, but also, you got to keep in mind to who are the members of unions and the people who are in power.

Are the people who have seniority, the people who have say in the unions are the people who have seniority.

So those Are the issues that are going to be put front and center.

In front of democratic legislature Hoops would counter.

Let's say we've got the first freshman English class of kids that are not doing well.

I'd like to put one of my seasoned professors in that class to help and what is the senior faculty member?

Say, I'm not teaching that class.

That's what the soups are saying.

And that's the dynamic that goes on.

Is that a, is that a fair argument or not?

Yeah, I mean, that one particular issue is a sticking point here.

I mean, typically you see, you know, Kratz doing things that the education Community at large public education Community, I should say, does does like but there was some pretty significant pushback.

I mean, Bob McCann, former aide to.

Now Governor, Whitmer put out a pretty scathing statement for an alliance of Education, administrators that he represents about this package.

So certainly it, did you know, clear the house this week?

But there's going to be some more debate on that moving forward.

Talk about the three people that have been arrested at least two of the three arrested on felony charges.

They think they found the culprits who got all those petition signatures wrong.

Yeah, I mean this is an investigation that's been going on for more than a year.

And so I think even at the onset of this, looking at the petition signatures, we know what firms were sort of, you know, driving these.

And so I think this was really a matter for the Attorney General to sort of establish, what kind of charges they could bring and whether they had the necessary evidence to bring those charges, and I mean, this is a political scandal.

Ilan.

A degree that rocked a thing.

Michigan politics beyond what we've seen in decades.

Yeah, let's just remember Folks at home.

I mean, this is the signature fraud scandal from a year ago that kicked five Republican gubernatorial have the Republican field, including the frontrunners presumed.

FrontRunner early, FrontRunner James Craig and Perry Johnson who's now running for president kicked him right off the ballot.

So this was a huge deal a year ago and it's a pretty big deal now because you don't often see major charges in petition circulation, fraud like, you know, usually you'd go after the circulator maybe.

And, you know, a slap on the wrist or something.

But this is going after the organizers, the folks, who owned the firm's, who according to Attorney General de nesle, allegedly knew about the fraud of, you know, and and and allowed it to happen.

And duped these candidates is important to note that, you know, there's been a lot of people blaming the candidates and Attorney General de nesle did say, you know, please vet firms.

Before you hire them.

You could have Googled Shawn wilmoth one of the guys arrested, see was indicted for fur charged with fraud in plead guilty to fraud a decade ago for similar reasons but at the same time she did clearly identify the candidates as victims here folks who were taken for a ride by these signature-gathering company which is an understatement.

Yeah, I think what also is notable that there Was several other people who are involved in this kind of round robin scheme where they took people's petitions, and they went around the table, and they tried to put in different signatures of different people.

Basically pulling the names out of the phone book, but only three people were charged with tells you or tells me anyway.

That some of their, some of these people who are around the table are collaborating to get.

After the big fish, the person who was in charge, who was as Jonathan said, plead guilty in Virginia, for something very similar.

So they're going after their Really getting to the head of the Dragon, I suppose of the head of the snake and going after them with these charges, I would make one correction last week on the program.

I said the James Craig and others don't have to collect petition signatures to run for the US Senate.

I'm told that is incorrect but it's not as many as they needed under this particular thing.

Now I want to add one other quick thing.

Did you know in Michigan that if you were 13 years old you could get married Simon.

Yeah I mean there was no minimum age up until the legislation that was passed by both Chambers.

Of the legislature this past week and so this is something that seemed relatively uncontroversial at the outside.

It's something where people were not it was going on.

Yeah, certainly, I mean there's obviously a number of people who had been former Child Brides testified, in some and supportive, you know, Banning this practice.

This is something that I think people found when they were made aware of it pretty egregious, I think.

I think what we mean, we may not realize here is that there is first of all, there's a religious element and there's kind of a cultural element.

Element that if a girl gets pregnant at 16 and the the father is a seventeen-year-old that they have to get married and there's like this shotgun wedding thing taking place and that's kind of how Society way back one was and how we should continue things but there's a legal problem with getting married at 16.

You don't have the rights that you do at 18.

So getting a divorce or finding a hotel room or getting Mrs. Or getting State help become real difficult.

I mean you can't protection or you can't do these kind of things Jonathan when you're when you're 16 17 years old.

And I think that that's information that really didn't sink in maybe to folks on the Republican side of the aisle when these bills were brought up two years ago, four years ago, six years ago and now that the Democrats are in charge and they can shine a spotlight on it.

You saw Republicans, not only support these bills, but sponsor, some of these Bills and then then go ahead and pass overwhelmingly.

Yeah, I mean, the advocates for this change point to research showing that people who get married before they're 18 often not always, but often are forced into that.

Either by circumstance or parental desires.

I mean to get married under 16 or sorry under 18, you need all you needed, parental approval in Michigan to get married under 16.

You need parental approval and judicial Approve of approval.

So it's not like, it could just automatically happen, but, you know, who's to say those parents weren't pressuring a child, because of some reason that the child, you know, through no fault of their own to get married.

We know that there are about 5,000 marriages over the last, like, two decades in Michigan.

So, it's not a huge number, but most of those involve girls, meaning females, under 18 and adult men, So you know it's girls who were forced into these relationships more.

Most often I quickly simontann implementation of proposal one which was the vast election reform stuff.

Quick update on where we are.

Yeah, I think we're seeing a level of Engagement from Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson, that we have not seen on other issues in the past.

She's gone before the legislature repeatedly to say, here's my wish list of the things that I want to make happen.

And I want to make sure that I have the funding to actually enforce Financial disclosure requirements, that voters passed, overwhelmingly in proposal 1 and that if that doesn't happen.

It seems like she has real concerns about the effectiveness of this proposal when it is implemented.

She concerned that the D's are not going to deliver.

I think that there's a lot of uncertainty right now just because there has been a lack of details, there's been so much on the Democratic agenda here that we don't really have a good sense of what this is actually going to look like.

When we see a line-by-line implementation of what's required.

It's one thing to talk about financial disclosure, it's another thing to actually do it.

Yeah, I know because the people that this applies to our, the people are actually passing the laws.

You know, didn't do.

I really want to do this one?

I got about me and and you know, and since assignments other so many things on the agenda, how do you fit this in?

How do you fit the financial disclosure in that was put in place by proposal one?

But still needs implementation language and about listen that has to be done by the end of the year or the state can be sued.

So I mean there's an impetus to get that done.

The question is, whether Democrats are going to package that with other reforms and make a larger, you know, foia for instance, the Freedom of Information Act, In that to the legislature and governor's office.

That's part of the discussion here to potentially do a large package but you know, not a lot of time in the grand scheme of legislating with summer break coming up to get this all done by the end.

If you get important part here too, is that, you know, we're working on a budget that has to be done relatively soon.

And that they're also appropriating money for implementing these programs when they don't know exactly.

How broad, or how sensible lose sight of the fact that this package.

When it started out, was watered down by the legislature, they say, he will make Make a deal with you.

Special interest groups, you don't have to do a petition Drive will do it for you.

Oh but by the way, some of the more stringent reforms you got any, we're going to kind of water them.so that was a precursor of things to come.

Yeah.

Things like the getting rid of the revolving door going from the legislature to the Lord's table and Congressional disclosure thing, which is a little more insightful as to what your finances are.

Yeah.

And and we don't know what, you know, end up.

We know that some of these things like the revolving doors have been around since time.

Got the never do anything about its lawmakers became lobbyists as long as long as term limits chased one from one career to the other.

One, let's say at this point, calling Our Guest today Leslie.

Love, who is a Democratic candidate for the US Senate, former representative.

Nice to see you on our program.

Let me start with the obvious question.

Do you think somebody in the Democratic party is trying to ordain Alyssa?

Slotkin is the nominee for this job.

And why are you smiling?

Good morning?

Because I'm with you, the dean of political Porting that in 25 Century by a cup of coffee please.

The question at hand representative there definitely seems to be predetermined establishment candidate present.

And I think this is a very interesting and pivotal point in the history of Michigan politics right now.

And it's why I decided to run for office.

So, yes, well, some would say we want to predetermine it because we want to win the seat.

Well, you know how you win the seat by giving Democrats by giving voters and option and allowing us to have an opportunity, us being the michiganders to weigh in and voice.

Our opinion, you just can't put a backpack of millions of dollars on someone and say, here this vote, for this person, there are a lot of voices in Michigan, and I represent a voice that is being lost in the political conversation from the state of Michigan.

In Washington, d.c. representation matters.

And I represent the middle class, A Very shrinking group of folks.

Working Class People and not only in Michigan, but in our nation, that's important.

That representation is at the table.

It's important.

That representation that looks like me.

Is that the table that has this type of real lived life experience.

That's so many michiganders have had just dreamers and people who work really hard Knuckles deep into their beliefs and values.

Mmm Forge forward, moving to do the things that they believe in.

And so all of those things are on this ballot for this senate election.

Well-represented to that point Congress people from Detroit right now, treat a Nadar Rasheeda to leave their people of color but they're not African-American, they're not black.

How big of a deal is that to voters there and do Democrats really risk, losing enthusiasm.

If they have another White candidate in this case, at the top of the ticket.

You know what Michigan has been able to do particularly out of Southeast Michigan, is bring a delegation of diversity and the and for the first time in the history that I can remember a, my life, is that we don't have someone that looks like me in our United States Congress.

That's problematic.

If you just realize we just celebrated Juneteenth.

And for the first time, our It made it a national holiday, we would not have a United States of America without black people's contribution to ending the Civil War.

And so, our voice our place in this conversation is still very much relevant and very important.

And I think all the diverse voices are and Michigan is pretty good at sending a dynamic diverse delegation, but something is obviously missing and And I just want to point out.

It's not just that that I'm black, or that I'm a woman.

I'm also from Southeast Michigan, the largest economic engine region in the state of Michigan.

It's important that we have representation out of Southeast Michigan.

It's important that we have representation from the middle class, and that we have someone who really is from the people grew up, Grassroots, who serving in this position.

And so, I think all of those things are important for voters and what will motivate a vase to come out.

Its love.

We've heard for years.

That the Democratic party is taking for granted the African-American vote.

Do you feel like it's gotten better?

You feel like it's gotten worse, you feel like it stayed the same?

We're having this conversation.

The first question, how we started off that?

There's is there an Heir Apparent?

You know the deal was already done.

The field was allegedly cleared and I said not so fast.

There are other voices here that have something to offer to this conversation.

So that voters will have a choice.

And that's what I represent in this conversation and experience lawmaker very successful.

And working across the aisle and is known for that.

And I think that just really matters at this point in time.

In our life, we cannot ignore the obvious.

We just came out of the pandemic, we're seeing the type of violence in America in Michigan, that's unprecedented.

And these are all our mental health issues.

We have an issue with immigration.

We have a human, what?

I call a human resource issue of.

Where are they?

The people, where are our Earth whether their teachers a healthcare workers.

And so this is what we're talking about.

The middle class, that is shrinking in our society.

And, and I'm here to represent that to get back to the question then is the Democratic party taking an African-American voters for granted?

Why don't we try it that way?

I think, absolutely, okay, that is happened.

You know, you can't shove a candidate.

If you for people to say, hey, this is this person vote for both for her, vote for him.

And it's like, okay, why?

And there's no choice and and then it's a big push, you know?

We need some, however, can Americans need to come out and vote for what you've already made, the decision for us.

And so, now, with having candidates like me, In the race allows people especially black folks and option.

All we want is to be able to vet our candidates understand who they are and making informed and intelligent choice and don't take it for granted that we want to show up when you just tell us who to vote for, we want options.

We want the ability to decipher ourselves and better own candidates.

You know, if there is a an Heir Apparent in this race, you know, that individual in representing slotkin has proven that she can raise millions and millions of dollars, She's ran, you know, and times the most expensive US House races in Michigan's history.

How if there's going to be an alternative to her message that's going to pose a real threat in a competitive primary that just the field just keeps growing.

How is that person going to rise above those other voices?

Well, I think we have to move this conversation Beyond money, of course, it costs money to run a campaign running for US.

Senate is a very expensive Endeavor, but if we make this about money, then we can slap I'm a backpack of million dollars on any individual and run that person and they become our u.s.

Senator or congressperson.

It has to be deeper and more relevant, and strike at the core of our values of Michelle's, missing, michiganders.

And As Americans like, what the people say, a people's movement is much greater than any amount of money.

One candidate can raise.

And so what I hope that happens that people realize that we are at a point in our lives in Erica where?

And I cannot say this enough, the middle class is diminishing, you have so much.

There's the Haves and the Have Nots and whether it's new technology, even the people who create artificial intelligence are saying, hey, we need some some parameters, some on what we're doing.

And what we're creating here and will eventually happen is that we'll have those who are extremely wealthy and those who are extremely poor, and so impaired.

It's Campaign on working class, but aren't from the working class, who don't know what?

That struggle, really feels like it's a real disconnect.

And I've done that for being the waitress to being in the c-suite.

So, I have a unique understanding, and, and knowledge, and experience, and an open mind and heart to To understand the experience and to serve and offer unique perspective in this conversation, Robert has been light of that statement.

If Alyssa slotkin eventually gets the nomination, would you support her?

Well, let's see if she gets the nomination.

You know, I think Alissa is logins and I have very different come from very different points of view and that's what makes us interesting.

And and competitive which is why I'm asking the question because there are differences there and at the end of the day, would you be comfortable voting for her?

Well, we'll find out when the end of the day comes what I hope at the end of the day is that I'm the candidate that elicits logins has to answer that question, will I vote for her?

Of course, I want a Democrat to keep this seat but I want a Democrat that really celebrates and put it in and upholds Democratic Values.

I don't want a light blue Democrat.

Where's your conversation on the middle class?

Where the conversation on immigration?

Where is the conversation on minority?

Engagement and contracts for small and minority businesses don't talk to me just because you're running for office when you're running for office.

But in everything you do as a sitting Congress person that says you care about minorities.

You care about immigrants, you care about women's rights that you can speak on those issues.

It took a list to slack is when she ran for congress.

You brought this up earlier, five times the amount of money her Republican competitor.

Raised and spent to win, she's an expensive candidate for Democrats.

I think when you put an exciting candidate, a motivated candidate like like Leslie.

Love it.

Just it changes.

The trajectory, it moves, the conversation Beyond me as a person because this isn't about Leslie.

Love what's on?

The ballot?

Is our values, is what we believe in is michiganders.

It's an opportunity for dreamers and Visionaries for the underdog.

All to have aspect of space at the table.

That's what's on the ballot.

Not just Leslie, love.

This is so much bigger than on Alyssa slackens or Leslie, love or any of the other candidates who are looking at this position.

We have to understand the unique moment in our that we're in.

Just one treated changing the subject, just a little bit here, a few weeks ago, the US Supreme Court said that Alabama had to redraw as Congressional Maps because there were not enough districts for that represented, a majority of African-American voters.

Do you feel like the maps in Michigan either on Congress state?

Senator State House are at risk.

Is our are these things that should be looked at in light of this Alabama.

But decision Our maps in Michigan just in southeast.

Michigan are so horribly gerrymandered that inside politics.

It's a joke that you know, if the politicians would have would have drawn these lines, they wouldn't have hurt Detroit as bad as they did, it's pretty awful when you look at.

For example, this is a perfect example.

The Detroit delegation, what southeast Michigan is known for is creating diversity in the state legislature?

The Detroit delegation almost half of those members don't live in Detroit and in fact they live in Oakland County and imagine if L Brooks was still alive right now.

How that competition for resources for the state's, largest city would be and how that conversation would change you know and so it matters this district and I think what the mayor has done to Mayor Duggan is done to challenge that Census count is alright and in order Representative, thank you for being on our program.

You'll keep you some touch on your campaign, please.

Yes.

I will thank you Tim.

And I hope that your viewers will go to my website.

Love for Michigan.com to read more about me.

Thank you very much before we close off the show tonight.

We have a little business to take care of wkar TV was recently awarded an Emmy for the program evening with the governor.

And so it would be appropriate that we thank Governor, Gretchen Whitmer and first gentleman dr. Mark Mallory for their participation because without them It would have been an evening with skubick which would not have gotten an Emmy.

We also in these clothes credits want to thank some other folks who made this possible.

See you next week right here on off the Record production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Martin Waymire, a full-service strategic Communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at MartinWaymire.com.

For more Off the Record, Visit Wkar.org.

Michigan Public Television stations have contributed to the production costs of Off the Record.

Others who made the Emmy possible.

Include station manager, Shawn Turner and use talented executive team, key, production, contributors include, Tim Elkins, Ken Merley Drew Hill and Rob Summit.

And thanks to the Michigan Academy of Television Arts and Science for this honor.

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