>> Reilly: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": I'M ADAM REILLY IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

UNLIVABLE WAGES, UNMANAGEABLE WORKLOADS, AND BIG GAPS IN HEALTH CARE COVERAGE, THOSE ARE SOME OF THE COMPLAINTS FROM A NEW POLL OF CURRENT AND FORMER STAFFERS ON BEACON HILL.

I'LL TALK TO TWO FORMER STAFFERS BEHIND THE POLL.

THEN, LATER, A SHAKEUP AT THE CELTICS: LONGTIME TEAM PRESIDENT DANNY AINGE IS OUT AFTER A DISAPPOINTING SEASON.

PLUS, CONFRONTING RACISM IN SPORTS AND BELLIGERENT FANS, WITH A BOTTLE-THROWING INCIDENT AT T.D.

GARDEN JUST THE LATEST IN A SERIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE "GLOBE'S" CELTICS REPORTER, GARY WASHBURN, AND GBH'S ESTEBAN BUSTILLOS JOIN ME.

♪♪ >> Reilly: JUST LIKE WITH TEACHING, SOCIAL WORK, AND JOURNALISM, YOU DON'T USUALLY DECIDE TO START WORKING IN POLITICS FOR THE MONEY.

BUT A RECENT POLL OF STAFFERS ON BEACON HILL FOUND THAT MANY ARE LEAVING BECAUSE OF IT.

NEARLY 90% OF LEGISLATIVE STAFF SAID THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY'RE PAID FAIRLY FOR THE HOURS THEY WORK AND THE AMOUNT OF RESPONSIBILITY THEY TAKE ON, ACCORDING TO THE POLL, WHICH WAS ORGANIZED BY BEACON BLOC, A COALITION OF BLACK STATE HOUSE STAFFERS AND ALLIES.

FOR MANY THE PAY IS SO LOW, THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO AFFORD BASIC NECESSITIES, WITH NEARLY ONE IN SIX SAYING THEY'VE EXPERIENCED FOOD INSECURITY WHILE WORKING ON BEACON HILL, AND NEARLY HALF SAID THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES AND THEIR DEPENDENTS ON THEIR CURRENT SALARY.

AND THEN THERE ARE THE WORKING CONDITIONS, AS ONE PERSON DESCRIBED: AS STAFFERS, WE TAKE ON MANY ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES THAT WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY COMPENSATED FOR.

THIS INCLUDES WORKING LONG NIGHTS, NOT HAVING TIME FOR A LUNCH BREAK, WORKING ON WEEKENDS, ETC.

WE OFTEN HAVE TO TAKE ON THE ROLE OF A SOCIAL WORKER IN OUR DEALINGS WITH CONSTITUENTS, WHICH CAN BE ARDUOUS AND DRAINING, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE HIGHER CASELOADS DUE TO THE PANDEMIC.

UNSURPRISINGLY, ALL OF IT CAN MAKE IT HARD TO STAY IN THE JOB.

ACCORDING TO BEACON BLOC, PEOPLE ALSO DESCRIBED CONCERNS OVER TURNOVER AND LOSING CO-WORKERS WITH GREAT POTENTIAL AND SKILL-SETS.

THE POLL WAS JUST THE LATEST IN A SERIES OF EFFORTS FROM THE GROUP TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THE LOW PAY AND DIFFICULT WORKING CONDITIONS.

AND LAST WEEK THEY SEEM TO HAVE MADE SOME HEADWAY, WINNING 6% RAISES AND $500 STIPENDS FOR ALL STATE HOUSE AND SENATE EMPLOYEES.

BUT BEACON BLOC SAYS THAT'S NOT ENOUGH.

I'M JOINED NOW BY TWO MEMBERS OF THE GROUP, BOTH FORMER BEACON HILL STAFFERS, KYERA STERLING AND NICOLE EIGBRETT.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

LET ME ASK YOU, AS A PAIR, AT THE OUTSET, TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING ON THE HILL WAS LIKE IN TERMS OF THE COMPENSATION THAT YOU RECEIVED AND HOW YOU LIVED AS A RESULT OF THAT?

AND IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE OTHER FACTORS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, YOU KNOW, LONG HOURS, LACK OF TRAINING FOR SOME THINGS YOU'RE EXPECTED TO DO, THAT WOULD BE GREAT, TOO.

SO TELL ME WHAT YOU CAN ABOUT WHAT THE EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE FOR EACH OF YOU.

>> YEAH, SURE.

I'M HAPPY TO.

YOU KNOW, I -- FIRST I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE I'M A FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENT.

I HAD COME TO THE HILL, YOU KNOW, REALLY EXCITED TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR, YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY AND FOR COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

AND I DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME RESOURCES THAT A LOT OF OTHER FOLKS ON THE HILL THAT I MET HAD, RIGHT?

SO THAT MEANT BEING ABLE TO INTERN PREVIOUSLY, HAVING ALREADY EXPERIENCE ON THE HILL, AND BEING ABLE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, FAMILY AND PEOPLE THAT SUPPORTED THEM FINANCIALLY WHILE THEY ACCRUED THAT EXPERIENCE.

I DIDN'T HAVE THAT, RIGHT?

I CAME IN MAKING AROUND $42,000, I THINK IT WAS $42,600 AT THE TIME, AND I REMEMBER HAVING TO COUCH SURF FOR ABOUT THREE TO FOUR MONTHS TO BE ABLE TO SCRAPE UP FIRST AND LAST SECURITY ON MY FIRST APARTMENT, WHICH I HAD ROOMMATES, AND I LIVED OUT OF ROSLINDALE.

THOSE WERE EXPERIENCES THAT FELT REALLY SINGULAR, AND NOT LIKE ONES THAT MY OTHER CO-WORKERS AND COLLEAGUES HAD.

AND BEYOND THAT, THAT WAS JUST FIRST, LAST SECURITY FOR AN APARTMENT.

NEVER MIND RENT AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT MEANT TO PAY FOR FOOD.

THERE IS A RUNNING SORT OF JOKE, THAT IS NOT QUITE FUNNY, ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF STAFFERS THAT RELIED ON (indiscernable) TO TAKE PLACE, AND THIS GIANT GREAT HALL OF FLAGS WITHIN THE SORT OF STATE HOUSE BECAUSE OF THE FREE FOOD, AND THE AMOUNT OF STAFF THAT WOULD RELY ON THOSE EVENTS DURING WEEKS WHERE YOU WERE BETWEEN PAYCHECKS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GO TO THE GROCERY STORE AND HOW TO HAVE DINNER AND HOW TO FEED YOURSELF.

AND THEY WERE REALLY REAL.

>> Reilly: NICOLE, HOW ABOUT YOU?

>> I WAS A LEGISLATIVE AIDE IN 2017 TO 2020, AND KIND OF HAD TWO DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES.

INITIALLY I WAS IN A COMMITTEE CHAIR'S OFFICE FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS.

AND SO A LOT OF THE WORK WAS KIND OF DIVVIED UP.

BUT AS A LEGISLATIVE AIDE, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE IN KIND OF A CATCH-ALL POSITION.

AND THEN THE SECOND LEGISLATOR I WORKED FOR, I WENT THROUGH A SINGLE STAFFER.

FOR A SINGLE AIDE, IT IS A HUGE BURDEN ON THEM TO BE CARRYING AN OFFICE BECAUSE NOT ONLY ARE YOU THE SCHEDULER, YOU'RE DOING ALL OF THE POLICY WORK AND THE CONSTITUENT SERVICES AND MEETING THE NEEDS OF THE DISTRICT, AS WELL AS MEETING WITH ADVOCATES AND LOBBYISTS, AND WORKING ON WEEKENDS AND AFTER HOURS, ESPECIALLY IF THE SESSION WAS TO RUN VERY LATE AT NIGHT.

SO IN A SIMILAR SENSE, I CAME INTO THE STATE HOUSE ALSO WITHOUT PREVIOUS POLITICAL EXPERIENCE, AND I FOUND MYSELF KIND OF THROWN INTO A POOL WHERE THERE WAS NO TRAINING AND NO RESOURCES.

YOU REALLY WERE JUST IN THE FIRE AND HAVING TO FIGURE IT OUT ON YOUR OWN, WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT.

AND IN TERMS OF THE COMPENSATION AND THE SALARY, I VERY SOON REALIZED I NEEDED AT LEAST A SECOND JOB TO MAKE ENDS MEET SO I COULD SUFFICIENTLY PAY MY RENT LIVING IN GREATER BOSTON.

AND SO WITHIN MY FIRST YEAR, I GOT A SECOND JOB IN THE SERVICE SECTOR, AND SO THAT MEANT NOT ONLY WAS I WORKING 40 TO 50 PLUS HOURS AS A LEGISLATIVE AIDE, BUT ON THE WEEKENDS WORKING IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY AND TRYING TO ACCRUE THOSE TIPS.

AND IT WAS, QUITE FRANKLY, VERY EXHAUSTING.

>> Reilly: KEIRA, YOU MENTIONED YOUR BACKGROUND AND THE WAY IT DIDN'T MATCH UP WITH SOME FELLOW STAFFERS ON BEACON HILL.

I WONDER IF YOUR TIME WORKING IN THE STATE HOUSE, PEOPLE WHOSE FAMILIES LACKED RESOURCES, FOLLOWING AWAY FROM WORKING IN THE BUILDING, AND JOBS BEING HELD OVER THE LONGER RUN BY PEOPLE WHOSE FAMILIES MIGHT HAVE BEEN AFFLUENT OR HAD ENOUGH MONEY THAT THEY CAN CARRY THEM A LITTLE BIT WHILE THEY WERE STRUGGLING -- WAS THAT A DYNAMIC AT PLAY?

>> CERTAINLY A DYNAMIC THAT OFTEN CAME UP.

WHETHER THAT WAS, YOU KNOW THAT YOU COULD GRAB A COFFEE, WHAT YOU OFTEN DO WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES TO WORK ON A PROJECT TO HASH OUT THE DETAILS BECAUSE OF NOT HAVING RESOURCES THAT PARTICULAR WEEK, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE ACTUAL PERFORMANCE OF WORK, RIGHT?

LIKE SO MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES FELT LIKE THEY COULD NOT MAKE MISTAKES BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T AFFORD TO MAKE MISTAKES.

SO THE JOB THEY'RE SHOWING UP TO DO IS THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT AND FEELS THAT MUCH MORE DRASTIC AND ENCUMBERS ALL OF THIS LEVEL OF HEIGHT HEIGHTENED ANXIETY THAT A LOT OF OTHER COLLEAGUES DON'T HAVE TO FACE.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF DYNAMICS THAT ARE NOT JUST SPECIFIC TO THE PAYCHECK THAT HAVE ALL OF THESE GREATER IMPLICATIONS.

>> Reilly: AND TELL ME IF I'M WRONG, NICOLE, I THINK OF THE STATE HOUSE, IF YOU'RE WORKING AT A JOB LIKE THE ONES YOU GUYS DID, YOU'RE SUPPORTING THE WORK OF SOMEONE WHO IS A CURRENT LAWMAKER, AND YOU'RE PART OF THIS POOL OF PEOPLE WHO ARE POTENTIALLY MOVING ON TO BIGGER, MORE POWERFUL, MORE INFLUENTIAL POSITIONS IN THE PUBLIC LIFE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

SO CORRECT ME IF I'M MISGUIDED HERE, BUT THE DYNAMIC THAT KEIRA IS TALKING ABOUT, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN CERTAIN BACKGROUNDS FALLING AWAY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T COPE WITH THE SORT OF HARD REALITIES OF THE JOB, AND YOU'RE CHANGING THE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO END UP RUNNING MASSACHUSETTS IN 10 OR 20 OR 30 YEARS.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT, ADAM, BECAUSE FOR BEACON BLOC, OUR AIM IS NOT JUST TO IMPROVE PAY AND WORKING CONDITIONS FOR INDIVIDUAL STAFF.

IT IS ABOUT IMPROVING OUR LEGISLATURE AND HOW IT FUNCTIONS AS A DEMOCRACY IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS.

IT IS ABOUT ATTRACTING AND MAINTAINING TALENTED, COMMITTED LEGISLATIVE STAFF, AND CONTINUING THAT INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE THAT OTHERWISE COULD BE LOST.

THE STATE HAS DEFINITELY SUFFERED FROM A BRAIN DRAIN, WHEN, AGAIN, STAFF WHO LACK GENERATIONAL WEALTH, OR WHO ARE WORKING PARENTS OR COME FROM WORKING-CLASS BACKGROUNDS ARE NOT ABLE TO STAY IN THESE ROLES.

AND IT JEOPARDIZES THE LEGISLATURE'S ABILITY TO FUNCTION TO THE EXTENT THAT -- SOME EXAMPLES ARE THE QUALITY OF DRAFTING THAT GOES INTO OUR BILLS AND THE CONTINUITY OF STAFF IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS BECAUSE BILLS AREN'T TYPICALLY PASSED IN ONE SESSION, RIGHT?

IT TAKES YEARS OF EFFORT.

AND SO WHAT IS TROUBLING TO ME, REALLY, IS THAT STAFFERS GET CAUGHT UP IN THIS KIND OF POLITICAL SYSTEM AND GAME, AND IN MANY WAYS, I SAW MY COLLEAGUES SORT OF EMBODY THE SPIRIT OF PUBLIC SERVICE BETTER THAN LEGISLATORS THEMSELVES.

AND THIS ISN'T BECAUSE LEGISLATORS ARE BAD PEOPLE.

THEY'RE SIMPLY STUCK IN THIS GAME THAT LEADERSHIP HAS CREATED, POLITICAL GAMES THAT FORCE LEGISLATORS TO PLAY WITH STICKS AND CARROTS AS INCENTIVES.

SHOULD A LEGISLATOR EXPEND THEIR POLITICAL CAPITAL TO SECURE A RAISE OR TO PASS A BILL FOR THEIR DISTRICT?

UNFORTUNATELY, WE AS STAFF END UP BECOMING PAWNS IN THIS SITUATION.

AND IT IS SOMETHING SO FAR BEYOND OUT OF OUR CONTROL.

>> Reilly: SO IF THE HOUSE SPEAKER AND THE SENATE PRESIDENT STUMBLE ON THIS SEGMENT -- I'M SURE THEY'RE HEARING FROM YOU GUYS IN OTHER WAYS, BUT IF THEY CAME TO YOU TOMORROW, OR IN A FEW DAYS, AND SAID, ALL RIGHT, YOU TWO MADE SOME COMPELLING ARGUMENTS IN THAT CONVERSATION.

BEACON BLOCK HAS MADE COMPELLING ARGUMENTS.

WHAT DO WE CHANGE?

WHAT ARE THE BIG THINGS THAT WE CHANGE IN THE NEXT YEAR?

WHAT COUNSEL WOULD YOU GIVE THEM?

KEIRA, LET'S START WITH YOU.

>> FIRST OFF, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE STANDARDIZED.

THERE IS NO REASON WHY WE SHOULD NOT BE GIVING STAFF COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS ON A REGULAR BASIS IN THE SAME WAY THAT LEGISLATORS DO.

ADDITIONALLY, WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE THE ADDITION OF THE DIVERSITY TALENT PIPELINE, AND PAID SORT OF INTERNSHIPS FOR STAFF FOR THE HOUSE AND SENATE BUDGETS, BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT GETS INSTITUTED.

WE WANT TO MAKE INVESTMENTS AND ALLOW FINANCIAL BACKING FOR FOLKS FROM COMMUNITIES THAT ARE DISENFRANCHISED AND MARGINALIZED TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE BUILDING.

SO MANY FOLKS OF COLOR THAT I WORK WITH, YOU KNOW, TOLD ME THAT THE FIRST TIME THEY HAD EVER STEPPED FOOT IN THE STATE HOUSE WAS WHEN THEY STARTED WORKING THERE.

AND SOME OF THEM HAVE GROWN UP AND BEEN BORN AND RAISED IN BOSTON.

AND THAT'S NOT THE TONE THAT WE WANT TO SET FOR LEGISLATURE, A STATE LEGISLATURE THAT MAKES LAWS FOR ALL OF THE COMMUNITY.

>> Reilly: NICOLE, WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST IF THE LEADERS CAME TO YOU?

>> YEAH, IN ADDITION TO WHAT KEIRA JUST SHARED, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CULTURE WITHIN THE STATE HOUSE TRANSFORMED.

THAT IT IS SIMPLY NOT JUST ABOUT THE POLITICAL HIERARCHY, BUT A CULTURE THAT TRULY VALUES STAFF AND PROVIDES THESE TYPES OF BASIC HUMAN RESOURCE FUNCTIONS THAT YOU WOULD LIKELY EXPECT FROM ANY OTHER EMPLOYER.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, FROM MY EXPERIENCE, I WOULD TRULY LOVE THIS WORK, BUT AFTER SIX MONTHS IN MY FIRST YEAR, I WAS EXHAUSTED AND FRUSTRATED THAT IT WAS A COMPLEMENT OF LOW PAY, LONG HOURS, AND A CULTURE OF SILENCE.

YOU KNOW, I WITNESSED FRIENDS BEING TREATED DISRESPECTFULLY.

AND I JUST FEEL LIKE LEADERSHIP SHOULD DO MORE TO TRANSFER THAT CLIMATE AND NOT MAKE THAT THE STANDARD FOR HOW THEY FUNCTION.

>> Reilly: DO YOU HAVE A SENSE THAT THEY ARE TAKING THE CALL THAT YOU ARE MAKING COLLECTIVELY SERIOUSLY?

WE MENTIONED, 6% PAY RAISE THAT APPARENTLY IS GOING TO BECOME REALITY, $500 STIPENDS.

CLEARLY FROM EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE RUN THROUGH HERE, THAT ALONE ISN'T ENOUGH.

BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THEY'RE HEARING YOU?

>> I DO THINK THAT WE HAVE AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE IS A LOT OF CHANGE FOR US TO COLLABORATE.

AND I DEFINITELY THINK THAT THE CONVERSATIONS ARE ONGOING.

I DO THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT STAFF ARE HERE TO WORK WITH LEADERSHIP.

WE'RE HERE TO GET THINGS DONE.

I DO HOPE THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THOSE AT THE TOP UNDERSTAND.

WE'RE NOT HERE TO, YOU KNOW, CAUSE TROUBLE THAT WE DON'T HAVE SOLUTIONS FOR.

WE'RE HERE TO BE COLLABORATIVE.

>> Reilly: I'VE GOT TO MENTION -- GO AHEAD, NICOLE.

HOP IN.

>> THANK YOU.

I JUST WANTED TO MENTION, AGAIN, THAT WE'RE ALSO HERE BECAUSE WE LOVE THE WORK.

BECAUSE EACH OF US ARE TRULY DEDICATED PUBLIC SERVANTS.

IT WAS FOR ME, PERSONALLY, AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT DECISION TO DECIDE TO LEAVE.

I WANTED TO BUILD A CAREER IN THE STATE HOUSE, BUT NO LONGER VIEWED IT AS FEASIBLE.

AND SO IN THAT SPIRIT AS WELL, WE WOULD LOVE THE LEADERSHIP TO KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING THIS BECAUSE WE WANT OUR LEGISLATURE TO BE THE BEST THAT IT CAN BE.

>> Reilly: I'VE GOT TO MENTION, AS WE WRAP UP, AND I'D LOVE TO KEEP GOING FOR 15 MORE MINUTES, BUT I CAN'T.

THERE IS A TWO MONTH DELAY TO GET HEALTH INSURANCE WHEN YOU BECOME A STAFFER, WHICH I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WORK THROUGH SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO ANOTHER THING FOR PEOPLE TO PONDER.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE, NICOLE AND KEIRA.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: WHEN YOUR SPORTS TEAMS WIN AS MUCH AS BOSTON'S HAVE LATELY, YOU DON'T TEND TO SEE MANY BIG CHANGES IN THE WAY THEY OPERATE.

AFTER ALL, WHY MESS WITH SUCCESS?

CASE IN POINT: BILL BELICHICK, WHO'S SPENT TWO DECADES RUNNING THE PATRIOTS.

OR CAM NEELY, WHO'S BEEN IN CHARGE OF THE BRUINS FOR MORE THAN 10 YEARS.

THEO EPSTEIN'S CHARMED RUN WITH THE RED SOX LASTED A DECADE, TOO.

AND THEN THERE'S CELTICS PRESIDENT DANNY AINGE, WHO WAS APPROACHING TWO DECADES WITH THE TEAM UNTIL THE SUDDEN ANNOUNCEMENT THIS WEEK THAT HE WAS LEAVING, WITH FORMER HEAD COACH BRAD STEVENS TAKING OVER AND A YET TO BE DETERMINED HIRE REPLACING HIM.

DANNY AINGE WON TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS AS A PLAYER AND ONE AS AN EXECUTIVE IN 2008, WHEN HE WAS THE NBA'S EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR.

BUT HE LEAVES THE TEAM AFTER A DISAPPOINTING SEASON THAT ENDED IN A FIRST-ROUND PLAYOFF EXIT AND SOME UNPLEASANT CONTROVERSY WITH FORMER CELTIC KYRIE IRVING PREEMPTIVELY ACCUSING BOSTON FANS OF RACISM, AND ONE FAN EMBARRASSING HIMSELF AND THE CITY BY THROWING A WATER BOTTLE AT IRVING'S HEAD.

SO WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR A TEAM THAT SEES ITSELF AS ONE OF THE LEAGUE'S MARQUEE FRANCHISES TO CONTEND AGAIN?

AND WHY ARE SO MANY FANS STEPPING OVER THE LINE IN THIS NBA POST-SEASON IN BOSTON AND SEVERAL OTHER CITIES?

JOINING ME TO TALK IT THROUGH ARE GARY WASHBURN, THE "BOSTON GLOBE'S" NATIONAL BASKETBALL WRITER, AND MY COLLEAGUE, ESTEBAN BUSTILLOS, WHO COVERS THE CELTICS AND ALL THINGS SPORTS FOR GBH NEWS.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

GARY, LET ME START WITH YOU.

I WAS GOING TO CALL DANNY AINGE'S EXIT UNEXPECTED WHEN I WROTE UP TODAY'S SHOW.

BUT THEN IT OCCURRED TO ME IT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN.

I'M ON THE OUTSIDE, YOU'RE ON THE INSIDE.

DID PEOPLE SEE THIS COMING?

>> I DON'T THINK PEOPLE SAW IT COMING IN TERMS OF HIM RETIRING.

I DID THINK HE WAS GETTING A LITTLE TIRED, AND I THINK HE WAS KIND OF SEEING THE END.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE THOUGHT TO HIMSELF, I'LL GO ANOTHER COUPLE OF YEARS, AND ONCE THIS YEAR OCCURRED AND AS TAXING AS IT WAS, HE WAS, LIKE, OKAY I'M DONE, OR WHETHER HE HAD BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS YEAR.

REMEMBER, HE HAD A HEART ATTACK TWO YEARS AGO, AND THAT WAS HIS SECOND HEART ATTACK.

HE IS 52 YEARS OLD, HE HAS KIDS AND GRANDKIDS.

HE'S GOT A SON WHO RAN FOR STATE OFFICE IN UTAH.

HE HAS MANY OTHER CHILDREN, A HUGE FAMILY.

I JUST THINK HE WANTED TO HIT THE GOLF COURSE AND MAYBE TAKE A BREAK.

I THINK IT IS A LOT OF PRESSURE, THIS JOB NOW, WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, EVERY FAN THINKING THEY'RE AN NBA EXPERT, AND EVERYONE IS SECOND-GUESSING YOU, AND EVERYONE IS TELLING YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD DO, THINKING THEY CAN DO YOUR JOB BETTER THAN YOU CAN.

AND I THINK MAYBE THE PRESSURE WAS A LITTLE TOO MUCH FOR DANNY AT AGE 62, AND MAYBE HE KIND OF SAW, HEY, I NEED TO GET OUT BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENS AND WHILE I'M STILL HEALTHY AND I CAN PLAY GOLF AND ENJOY MY FAMILY.

>> Reilly: I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE PERSONAL STUFF BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF FANS, INCLUDING MYSELF, FORGET THAT THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE TEAMS ARE, IN FACT, HUMAN.

BRIEFLY, AS YOU LOOK BACK ON THE DANNY AINGE ERA, WHAT ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS HE DID REALLY WELL AND A COUPLE THINGS HE MAY HAVE STRUGGLED IN?

>> THE FIRST THING HE DID WELL WAS HIRE DOC RIVERS.

HE BROUGHT DOC BACK, WHO WAS FIRED WITH THE ORLANDO MAGIC, AND HE TOOK A CHANCE AND IT ENDED UP WORKING OUT GREATLY.

AND SECONDLY, HE PUT TOGETHER A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM.

HE WAS AN AN AN INNOVATER OF THE BIG THREE, WHICH IS A FORMULA THAT THE NBA TEAMS GO BY NOW.

THE BROOKLYN NETS, JUST BEAT UP THE CELTICS, THEY HAVE THREE STARS, IRVING, HARDING, AND KEVIN DURANT.

HE PUT IT TOGETHER AND WON A CHAMPIONSHIP AND FINISHED GAME SEVEN OF ANOTHER -- LOSING IN GAME SEVEN TO THE LAKERS IN 2010.

HE BUILT THEM UP AFTER SOME DIFFICULT TIMES, GOING WAY BACK TO THE DEATH OF WENN WENN BIAS, MISSING IN THE DRAFT.

HE TOOK THE FRANCHISE FROM SOME VERY DARK TIMES BACK TO PROSPERITY.

BUT IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, HE ACCUMULATED THIS TREASURE CHEST OF DRAFT PICKS THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO ACQUIRE A MAJOR SUPERSTAR TO BECOME THE NEXT GREAT ALL-TIME CELTIC, AND THAT DIDN'T EVER WORK.

THEN HE WASTED, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY, ALL OF THOSE DRAFT PICKS.

AND THEY ENDED UP, YOU KNOW, GETTING JASON THROUGH THOSE PICKS, SO YOU CAN'T SAY IT WAS A TOTAL FAILURE.

BUT A LOT OF THE PICKS TURNED OUT TO BE PLAYERS WHO DIDN'T HELP THEM, AND SO THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO EVER REACH THAT CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL AS THEY DID IN 2008 AND 2010.

>> Reilly: I WAS LOOKING AT SOME OF THE NAMES OF PLAYERS THEY DID PICK WHO DIDN'T PAN OUT, AND I HAD FORGOTTEN HOW MANY THERE WERE.

ESTABAN, LET ME TURN TO YOU.

AT THE TURN OF EVERY SEASON, THE CELTICS ARE A CONTENDER TO WIN THE EAST AND GO TO THE FINALS.

THAT'S HOW I THOUGHT OF IT AS A CASUAL FAN.

ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS YEAR THEY BARELY MADE THE PLAYOFFS.

TO YOUR EYE, WHAT WENT WRONG?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE FIRST THING YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE SEASON -- AND THIS PROBABLY GOES FOR EVERYONE -- FOR THE PAST TWO SEASONS IS COVID.

THE CELTICS, ARGUABLY, HAD THE HIGHEST IMPACT ON COVID THIS SEASON, WHERE JASON TATEM WAS OUT FOR A LONG TIME WITH THE DISEASE, AND HE HAS TO USE AN INHALER BEFORE GAMES, WHICH IS A CRAZY THING FOR SOMEONE AS YOUNG AS HIM.

AND EVEN AFTER THE CELTICS LOST THEIR GAME FIVE AGAINST THE BROOKLYN NETS, BRAD STEVENS HIMSELF SAID, WE NEVER REALLY HAD THIS TEAM TOGETHER THE WAY THAT WE FULLY WANTED TO OVER THE COURSE OF A WHOLE YEAR.

I THINK EVERY CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS YEAR WITH THE CELTICS HAS TO START THERE.

YOU GET INTO BASKETBALL, AND BASKETBALL WASN'T GREAT AT TIMES.

BUT I THINK LOOKING AT THAT, THAT -- EVERYTHING THEY DEALT WITH WITH COVID MAKES EVERYTHING ELSE JUST THAT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD TO PLAY THE NETS IN THE FIRST ROUND.

NOBODY WANTS THAT.

>> Reilly: INJURIES TO JAYLIN BROWN AND CAMPBELL WALKER, WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO REPLACE KYRIE IRVING.

I WANT TO SHIFT GEARS A LITTLE BIT AND DO SOME SPORTS AND SOCIETY TALK WITH YOU GUYS.

THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH ABUSE DIRECTED AT PLAYERS OVER THE COURSE OF THIS POST-SEASON.

WE TALKED ABOUT KYRIE IRVING HAVING A WATER BOTTLE THROWN AT HIM, TRE YOUNG SPAT ON.

A UTAH FAN MAKING RACIST COMMENTS TO JOHN MORANT'S FAMILY.

WE HAVE A VIDEO.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

>> THERE WAS A FAN THREE ROWS BEHIND ME WITH HIS LITTLE DAUGHTER, AND HE WAS, LIKE, I'LL PUT A NICKEL IN YOUR BACK BOY, AND WATCH YOU DANCE.

AND ANOTHER ONE TOLD MY WIFE TO SHUT THE "F" UP AND SIT DOWN.

AND HE GOT ESCORTED OUT.

I DON'T GET IT.

YOU'RE THERE TO ROOT FOR YOUR TEAM.

>> Reilly: WHAT DO YOU TWO THINK IS GOING ON HERE WITH THIS REALLY, REALLY UGLY STUFF, PERPETRATED ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY BY WHITE FANS AGAINST BLACK PLAYERS.

GARY, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THERE IS A LEVEL OF JEALOUSY, THAT THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL, ESPECIALLY ON YOUR OPPOSING TEAM.

I THINK IT GOES BACK TO IF THEY'RE YOUR GUYS, THEY'RE GOOD BLACK PEOPLE, GOOD LATINOS -- THEY'RE GOOD IF THEY PLAY FOR YOUR TEAM.

RED SOX FANS LOVE DAVID ORTIZ.

BUT IF THEY'RE THE BRUINS, AND MONTREAL SCORES THE GOAL, HE IS THE ENEMY AND HE GETS RACIAL REMARKS THROWN AT HIM.

I THINK IT IS THE TERM "FANATIC," CONSIDERING THEM YOU'RE ENEMY AND SAYING WHATEVER YOU WANT TO GET UNDER THEIR SKIN.

AND, ALSO, TOO, THERE IS LITTLE PUNISHMENT FOR THIS.

THE KID WHO THREW -- HE IS A MAN -- BUT HE THREW THE BATTLE AT KYRIE IRVING, AND HE IS OUT OF JAIL.

THERE ARE NO MORE GAMES.

YOU CAN'T GO SEE BRUNA MARS AT T.D.

GARDEN.

WHERE IS THE PUNISHMENT HERE.

HE GETS PUBLICITY AND HE GETS ON TV -- >> Reilly: YOUR PHOTOGRAPHER GOT SOME GREAT IMAGES OF HIM BEING LED AWAY, AND HE WAS TAKING SELFIES AND HE WAS PUMPED, AND IT WAS HIS MOMENT IN THE SPOTLIGHT.

ESTIMAN, IESTABAN, I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS AS WELL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS DRIVING THIS UGLINESS?

>> I THINK IT IS A LOT OF WHAT GARY JUST SAID.

KYRIE IRVING ELUDED TO IT, THAT BLACK ATHLETES ARE ALL OF A SUDDEN SEEN AS NOTHING MORE THAN JUST THAT.

AND THEY'RE TAKEN FOR GRANTED.

LAST WEEK I TALKED TO JOSEPH COOPER, WHO IS A PROFESSOR AT U MASS BOSTON, AND HE SAID HISTORICALLY BLACK ATHLETES ALWAYS HAVE BEEN ALMOST AS A COMMODITY.

THEY'RE NOT REALLY PERSONS.

THEY'RE NOT REALLY ANYTHING FOR MANY PEOPLE.

AND I THINK YOU CAN'T -- THE FACT THAT FANS HAVE BEEN INSIDE FOR SO LONG, I THINK IT DOES MAKE ME WONDER IF WITH THE RETURN OF PLAYOFF BASKETBALL, IF THEY ALMOST FORGOT HOW TO ACT.

AGAIN, AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T THINK THAT -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT NOW AS WELL, BUT IT REALLY DOES PUT A REALLY DARK STAIN ON THE NBA.

HEY, LOOK AT US, WE'RE BACK TO NORMAL, BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE SPITS ON TRE YOUNG AND SOMEONE THROWS A WATER BOTTLE ON KYRIE IRVING.

IT REALLY STAINS THE WHOLE SITUATION.

>> Reilly: I HAD WANTED TO ASK BOTH OF YOU ABOUT REALLY THOUGHTFUL COMMENTS THAT JAYLIN BROWN MADE ABOUT A LOT OF THESE ISSUES.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

I'M GOING TO TWEET OUT THESE COMMENTS.

GARY WASHBURN AND ESTEBAN BUSTILLOS, THANK YOU BOTH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: AND FINALLY TONIGHT, A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN SENDING IN DURING THESE PANDEMIC TIMES.

RICHARD TOLD US HE PAINTED THESE TWO PORTRAITS RECENTLY.

HOW CREATIVE, RICHARD.

BOB TOOK THIS AMAZING PHOTO OF A BALD EAGLE IN SOUTHERN MASSACHUSETTS.

ANN SENT IN A NATURE PHOTO, AS WELL.

VERY NICE, ANN.

AND, LASTLY, ADAM TOOK THESE IMAGES OF YESTERDAY'S BEAUTIFUL SUNSET IN THE NORTH END.

THANK YOU ALL FOR SENDING THESE IN.

AS ALWAYS, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE, PLEASE SEND IT TO THE ADDRESSES ON YOUR SCREN.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "BEAT THE PRESS."

EMILY ROONEY AND HER PANEL WILL TAKE UP TENNIS GREAT NAOMI OSAKA'S DECISION TO PULL OUT OF THE FRENCH OPEN AFTER REFUSING TO DO PRESS CONFERENCES, CITING A STRAIN ON HER MENTAL HEALTH.

PLUS, WAS THE MEDIA TOO QUICK TO DISMISS THE WUHAN LAB CORONAVIRUS THEORY?

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org