>> FROM OUR STATE HOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

WE HAVE AN INTERVIEW-HEAVY SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT, BUT FIRST A FEW HEADLINES.

SEVERAL CANDIDATES HAVE FILED CHALLENGES OF THE MAY 24 PRIMARY ELECTION TO THE ALABAMA REPUBLICAN PARTY.

STATE SENATOR TOM WHATLEY IS CHALLENGING HIS ONE-VOTE LOSS TO JAY HOVEY IN SENATE DISTRICT 27.

IN HOUSE DISTRICT 1, CHALLENGER MAURICE MCCANEY IS CHALLENGING HIS LOSS TO INCUMBENT REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIP PETTUS.

IN HOUSE DISTRICT 2, KIMBERLY BUTLER IS CHALLENGING THE RESULT OF HER NOT MAKING THE RUNOFF WITH OPPONENTS JASON BLACK AND BEN HARRISON.

ALSO IN THE SHOALS, THERE IS A CHALLENGE TO A COUNTY COMMISSION ELECTION AND SEVERAL REPUBLICAN EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE CONTESTS.

AND AFTER VOTING IRREGULARITIES IN ETOWAH COUNTY, TWO LEGISLATIVE RACES ARE BEING CHALLENGED: HOUSE DISTRICT 28, WHERE FORMER LAWMAKER MACK REPRESENTATIVE GIL ISBELL BY 219 VOTES AND HOUSE DISTRICT 29, WHERE MARK GIDLEY DEFEATED JAMIE GRANT BY 74 VOTES.

SOME ETOWAH COUNTY VOTERS RECEIVED BALLOTS WITH THE INCORRECT HOUSE DISTRICT BASED ON THE LATEST ROUND OF REDISTRICTING.

THE CANDIDATES ARE ASKING THE STATE PARTY TO ORDER A REVOTE.

IT IS UNCLEAR HOW MANY VOTES WERE AFFECTED OR WHETHER IT COULD INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME.

ALABAMA SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN MERILL SAID HIS OFFICE IS WORKING TO DETERMINE THAT.

I'LL TALK WITH SECRETARY MERRILL LATER IN THE SHOW.

AND IN THE OTHER BIG POLITICAL STORY OF THE WEEK, THERE WON'T BE A DEBATE IN THE RUNOFF BETWEEN KATIE BRITT AND MO BROOKS FOR U.S. SENATE.

"ALABAMA DAILY NEWS" AND GRAY TELEVISION HAD WORKED WITH THE CAMPAIGNS TO SET A STATEWIDE TELEVISED DEBATE ON JUNE 14, BUT THOSE PLANS FELL APART THIS WEEK.

BRITT'S CAMPAIGN SAID THEY WERE UNINTERESTED IN A FACE-OFF WITH BROOKS BECAUSE THEY ARE CONVINCED HE WOULD “TURN IT INTO A CIRCUS.” BROOKS IN TURN ACCUSED BRITT OF FLIP FLOPPING AFTER SHE CALLED FOR A DEBATE IN THE MONTHS LEADING UP TO THE PRIMARY.

ALABAMA'S LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE HAS NOT DETERRED STATE AGENCIES FROM HELPING PEOPLE FIND JOBS.

IN FACT, SOME ARE REDOUBLING THEIR EFFORTS.

"CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" RANDY SCOTT REPORTS.

>> EFFORTS TO IMPROVE ALABAMA'S WORKFORCE IS AS HOT AS THE WEATHER ACROSS THE STATE.

MANY ORGANIZATIONS ARE ALL IN WHEN IT COMES TO HELPING PEOPLE FIND WORK.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT IN THE STATE, YOU LOOK AT THE CURRENT PIPELINE OF SKILLED WORKERS IN THE STATE WE HAVE A SHORTAGE.

>> KEITH PHILLIPS IS THE VICE CHANCELLOR OF WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AT THE ALABAMA COMMUNITY COLLEGE SYSTEM.

>> WE SERVE ALL ALABAMIANS, WE SERVE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, AND THE CAREER TECHNICAL EDUCATION STUDENT SEEKING A TWO-YEAR ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE, ACADEMIC TRANSFER STUDENT LOOKING TO MOVE TO A FOUR-YEAR UNIVERSITY AND OTHER UNIQUE, NON-TRADITIONAL STUDENTS.

WE LOOK AT THE ADULT POPULATION IN THE STATE.

>> THE ACCS HAS SOME 24 COLLEGES ACROSS THE STATE, SAYS PHILLIPS, MAKING SURE THEY REACH AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

>> WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER PROGRAMS THAT LETS US TO MEET THE STUDENT WHERE THEY ARE.

>> AND WHERE THEY WANT TO BE.

FOR SOME, THAT'S RETURNING TO WORK.

>> NOW THEY ARE LOOKING TO GET BACK IN THE WORKFORCE BUT NEED QUICK, RAPID TRAINING THAT GETS THAT SKILL TO GET THEM GAINFULLY EMPLOYED.

THEY CAN TAKE ONLINE AND ATTEND IN-PERSON LAND FOR HANDS-ON DEMONSTRATION TO RECEIVE AN ALABAMA COMMUNITY COLLEGE CREDENTIAL.

>> ONE OF MANY PROGRAMS HELPING ALABAMA'S WORKFORCE GROW.

>> MAYBE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT CLASSES OR INTERESTED IN A WORKFORCE PROGRAM OR YOU ARE A K-12 STUDENT WHO WANT TO GET A JUMP START ON THINGS.

REACH OUT TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

>> FOR "CAPITOL JOURNAL," I'M RANDY SCOTT.

>> YOU CAN WATCH PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" ONLINE ANYTIME AT ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION'S AT APTV.ORG.

YOU CAN CONNECT WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" AND LINK TO PAST EPISODES ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" FACEBOOK PAGE.

>> NEXT I'M JOINED BY ALABAMA SECRETARY OF STATE, JON MERRILL.

THANK YOU FOR BEING ON THE SHOW AGAIN.

>> TODD, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AS YOUR GUEST.

>> NOW WE HAVE HAD THE ELECTION I WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON BECAUSE THERE'S SOME DRAMA, RESIDUAL DRAMA FROM THE ELECTION.

BEFORE WE GET TO THOSE CONTESTED RACES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I WANT TO ASK HOW PLEASED WERE YOU WITH THE ELECTION IN GENERAL IN TERMS OF HOW IT WAS EXECUTED AND TURNED OUT?

>> VERY PLEASED.

WE HAD 25 TO 30% OF OUR VOTERS GO TO THE POLLS BUT ONLY HAD 23.45%.

WE WILL BE APPROACHING 24% WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE ADDED BACK FOR THE FINAL RESULTS FOR THE PROVISIONAL BALLOTS BUT IT IS A VERY, VERY SMALL TURNOUT, WHICH DOES NOT BODE WELL FOR THE RUNOFF.

>> SPEAKING OF THAT -- I KNOW YOU HAVE PROBABLY BEEN ANTICIPATING A RUNOFF, NOT JUST STATEWIDE BUT IN A LOT OF LEGISLATIVE AND OTHER RACES.

WHAT GOES INTO THAT?

HOW DOES YOUR OFFICE PREPARE FOR A WHOLE NEW ELECTION?

>> THE MAIN THING TO REMEMBER, TODD, IS WE JUST CHANGED THE LAW BACK IN 2019 TO MAKE SURE WE HAD A FOUR-WEEK RUNOFF INSTEAD OF A SIX-WEEK RUNOFF.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN A COUPLE OF DECADES WE HAVE HAD A RUNOFF.

SO THE MARGINS ARE REDUCED FOR REGISTRATION, CAMPAIGNING, ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE CONSIDERED.

THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE ELECTION, YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE STANDARD PROCEDURES AND PROTOCOLS RELATED TO THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE ELECTION, THOSE THINGS ARE NOT CHANGING.

THOSE DEADLINES WILL BE MET IN ALL 67 COUNTIES AND 68 JURISDICTIONS, BUT THERE'S A REDUCED WINDOW IN OTHER AREAS AND THAT HAS TO BE GIVEN ATTENTION.

>> YOU MENTIONED TURNOUT.

YES, IT WAS DOWN.

IS PART OF THE REASON BECAUSE I'M THINKING 2020 WAS A MONSTER ELECTION, RIGHT?

ONCE IN A GENERATION KIND OF TURNOUT.

DOES IT COMPARE TO A 2018 OR 2014, IS IT CLOSER TO THOSE NUMBERS?

>> NOT REALLY.

OUR NUMBERS IN 2010 PERCENTAGE WISE WAS HIGHER THAN IT WAS AND ALSO IN 2014 IT WAS HIGHER.

2018 IT WAS HIGHER WITH A PERCENTAGE BUT WITH ACTUAL VOTES THEY WERE SOMEWHAT COMPARABLE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RUNOFF, SOME OF THE RACES YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IN 2012 WE HAD 4% IN THE RUNOFF.

IN 2016, WE HAD 8%.

2014, WE HAD 11%.

SO, WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS AND THE WAY THINGS ARE, 10 TO 15% IS WHAT I'M PROJECTING AND THAT'S A SMALL MARGIN FOR PEOPLE COMING BACK OUT, WHICH MEANS ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

IT JUST DEPENDS WHO GETS THEIR VOTERS OUT.

>> THAT'S A PRETTY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE ELECTORATE OF THE STATE AND IT IS BASICALLY CHOOSING OUR NEXT SENATOR.

>> YOU SEE, THE LAST TIME WE CHOSE A U.S.

SENATOR IN AN OPEN SEAT, BASICALLY AN OPEN SEAT.

SENATOR JONES WAS RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION FOR A FULL TERM, WE HAD 17% OF THE PEOPLE VOTE.

THE THING THAT PEOPLE DON'T REMEMBER ABOUT THAT 17% IN THAT RUNOFF IN '20 BETWEEN SENATOR SESSIONS AND SENATOR TUBERVILLE IS WE HAD A FOUR-MONTH DELAY IN THE VOTE.

>> YEAH.

>> SO IT WAS LIKE A BRAND NEW PRIMARY AGAIN BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN A LOT OF TIME FOR CAMPAIGNING BUT ALSO A LOT OF TIME FOR PEOPLE TO GET READY TO VOTE AGAIN.

>> THIS MAY BE MORE SPECULATIVE, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY REASONS WHY THE TURNOUT IS DECREASING?

>> I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF REASONS.

ONE IS I THINK PEOPLE WERE INUNDATED BY MESSAGING AND THEY GOT TIRED OF IT.

THEY GOT TIRED OF THE NEGATIVE ADVERTISEMENTS AND ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IS IT WOULD HELP INCREASE TURNOUT.

WE HAD SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE AND SEVERAL MILLION IN THE SENATE RACE, REGULAR NUMBERS.

YOU WOULD THINK THERE WOULD BE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE ACHIEVED BUT IT ACTUALLY WENT DOWN.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN ATTRIBUTE IT TO IS PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH GOVERNOR IVEY'S LEADERSHIP AND THAT IS VERY CLEAR BECAUSE SHE BEAT EIGHT PEOPLE WITHOUT A RUNOFF.

THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE.

THE ONLY TIME WE HAVE COME CLOSE TO THAT IS WHEN THERE WAS AN OPEN SEAT IN '66 AND WALLACE BEAT NINE PEOPLE WITHOUT A RUNOFF IN AN OPEN SEAT FOR GOVERNOR, BUT NEVER HAS AN INCUMBENT GOVERNOR DEFEATED SO MANY PEOPLE AT ONE TIME THE WAY GOVERNOR IVEY DID.

SHE TOOK THEM TO THE WOOD SHED.

>> THAT MAKES SENSE.

I HEARD THIS FROM FRIENDS ANTIDOTALLY, HEY, DID YOU VOTE TODAY, NO, OH, ALL THAT GARAGE.

THE LOW PROPENSITY VOTER WAS TURNED OFF.

I AGREE WITH YOU.

MOVING ON, THERE ARE SEVERAL CHALLENGES TO THE ELECTION NOT STATEWIDE BUT LEGISLATIVE.

>> YEAH, FIVE CONTESTS IN LEGISLATIVE RACE.

IN HOUSE DISTRICT ONE, THE SHOALS, HOUSE DISTRICT 2, THE SHOALS AND HOUSE DISTRICT 28 AND 29 WHICH BOTH HAVE A PART OR ALL OF ETOWAH COUNTY AND SENATE DISTRICT 27 IN LEE, RUSSELL AND TALL PEW IS A COUNTIES.

>> THESE CHALLENGES ARE THROUGH THE PARTY.

THEY DON'T GO TO YOUR OFFICE.

>> THE CONTEST HAD TO BE DONE NO LATER THAN NOON ON THURSDAY AFTER THE ELECTION.

SO A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO.

OF COURSE TODAY IS THE DAY THAT ANY CHALLENGE HAD TO BE MADE ABOUT RECOUNTS BEING CONDUCTED.

THE CONTEST WILL BE HEARD BY THE STATE REPUBLICAN EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE.

>> HOW DOES THAT WORK?

IF I WANT A RECOUNT, DO I FIRST HAVE TO ISSUE THAT CONTEST AND THEN ASK FOR A RECOUNT?

>> THERE IS A PROTOCOL.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE TO FOLLOW THE STEPS AND PROCEDURES BASED ON WHAT THE CODE SECTION SAYS.

BUT THEY WILL BE FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES AND THE RULES, REGULATIONS AND LAWS PERTAINING TO ELECTION ADMINISTRATION FROM THE STATE'S PERSPECTIVE, JUST LIKE YOU WOULD IN A GENERAL ELECTION.

THEN WHEN IT COMES TO THE CHALLENGES OR THE CONTEST THAT WILL BE HEARD, THOSE START IN 171370 AND GO TO 171389.

WHEN THOSE THINGS ARE ASKED ABOUT WHAT PROCEDURES, GUIDELINE POLICIES HAD TO BE RELATED TO ACCORDING TO ELECTION LAW THAT IS WHERE YOU NEED TO KNOW FOR THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

>> SENATE DISTRICT 27 SHOCKED EVERYONE.

FOUR VOTES ON ELECTION DAY AND JAY HOVEY BEAT TOM WHATLEY BY ONE VOTE.

>> OUT OF 16700 VOTES CAST.

>> REALLY RARE.

>> WHATLEY IS CHALLENGING THE ELECTION.

ONE THING I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT BECAUSE YOU COULD SEE HOW A RECOUNT WOULD BE A GOOD TACTIC FOR HIM.

HE NEEDS ONE VOTE AND IN 16,000 VOTES MAYBE A SCANTRON GOT MISREAD.

SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT I UNDERSTAND THEY ARE AT THE COUNTY LEVEL.

COULD WHATLEY ASK FOR JUST RECOUNTS IN TALLAPOOSA AND RUSSELL WHERE HE LED.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A RECOUNT IN EVERY BOX IN THE DISTRICT.

YOU CAN REQUEST IT BE DONE IN CERTAIN BOXES WITHIN THE DISTRICT AND YOU CAN CHOOSE THOSE.

AS THE OFFICE HOLDER OR AS THE COMPETITOR, RUNNING FOR THE POSITION, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT IF YOU REQUEST IT.

SO YOU CAN TAILOR MAKE THE CONTEST THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO BE.

>> LET'S JUST SAY THAT HAPPENS, JUST RECOUNTS IN THE BOXES HE THINKS HE CAN PICK UP VOTES IN, IF I'M JAY HOVEY, THE GUY THAT WON BY ONE, I WOULD WANT TO HAVE A RECOUNT IN THE BOXES THAT WERE GOOD FOR ME.

>> THAT WOULD BE YOUR CHOICE.

>> BUT HOVEY HAS NOT FILED A CONTEST SO IS IT DONE?

>> ALL OF IT HAD TO BE DONE BY NOON ON FRIDAY.

>> HOW OFTEN DOES THAT HAPPEN.

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE FACTORS.

IT DEPENDS ON THE RACES THEMSELVES AND THE CANDIDATES INVOLVED AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO PURSUE THAW AND THEN THE BIGGER QUESTION IS WHENEVER YOU HAVE THE CONTEST OR THE CHALLENGE OR RECOUNT, HOW OFTEN IS IT SUCCESSFUL?

NOT VERY.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE'S NO INSTANCE THAT I CAN THINK OF IN THE SEVEN YEARS, FOUR MONTHS AND 15 DAYS I HAVE HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO SERVE AS THE SECRETARY OF STATE WHERE WE HAVE HAD A RECOUNT OR CONTEST WHERE IT RESULTED IN THE WINNER BEING IDENTIFIED IN ANOTHER WAY OTHER THAN AFTER THE CERTIFICATION OCCURRED.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT ETOWAH COUNTY.

A LOT OF PROBLEMS UP THERE, A LOT OF TROUBLE WITH THIS SITUATION WHERE THE BALLOTS DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT LEGISLATIVE CANDIDATES ON IT BASED ON THE NEW DISTRICTS DRAWN.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH WHAT HAPPENED?

>> YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT EACH AND EVERY PERSON THAT WENT TO ETOWAH COUNTY THAT WAS A REGISTERED VOTER AND HAD AN OPPORTUNITY CAST THEIR BALLOT WAS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO CAST A BALLOT.

THEY MAY HAVE NOT CAST THE BALLOT APPROPRIATE FOR THEM WHERE THEY LIVED BUT FOR THE PLACE WHERE THEY VOTED AND WHAT THEIR VOTER REGISTRATION RECORD INDICATED THEY WERE GIVEN THE CORRECT BALLOT IN EVERY INSTANCE.

THE CONCERN WE HAVE TODAY IS WE HAD A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE OUTSIDE OF CERTAIN DISTRICT BOUNDARIES IN ETOWAH COUNTY.

THAT HAPPENED BECAUSE THE REGISTRARS DID NOT DO THEIR WORK IN A TIMELY FASHION.

THEY HAD FROM NOVEMBER OF 2021 UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION TO GET THEIR WORK DONE.

WE HAD ASSISTED THEM AND POINTED THEM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION NUMEROUS TIMES AND DONE SPOT CHECKS TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE CONTINUING TO DO THEIR WORK.

WE HAD PEOPLE ON THE GROUND AT THE GADSDEN OFFICE MAKING SURING THEY WERE DOING THEY NEEDED TO DO BUT IT WAS NOT COMPLETED.

IT WAS INTRODUCED TO US ON THE 24th OF MAY.

IT RESULTED IN CONFUSION AND RESULTED IN INCONSISTENCIES AND IRREGULARITIES WITH THE REAPPORTIONMENT MAPS IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY.

SO, WE HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL ON THE GROUND RIGHT NOW IN THE OFFICE THERE AT THE BOARD OF REGISTRARS CORRECTING THAT AND HELPING THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY NEED TO DO BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE CHANGES, BY LAW, HAVE TO BE MADE BY THE REGISTRARS.

CAN'T BE MADE BY OUR OFFICE OR ANY INDIVIDUAL THAT IS NOT A REGISTRAR THAT'S BEEN ASSIGNED THAT WORK BY ONE OF THE THREE APPOINTED AUTHORITIES.

THERE IS STILL AN INVESTIGATION THAT IS ONGOING ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT OCCURRED AND WHY IT OCCURRED THE WAY IT DID AND WHAT THE RESULT WILL BE.

THAT WILL NOT BE FULLY ADJUDICATED FOR SEVERAL MORE WEEKS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU IT WILL BE DEALT WITH AND IT WILL BE DEALT WITH SWIFTLY AS SOON AS THE REPORT IS IN.

THE OTHER THING YOU NEED TO KNOW IS ONE OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS HAS ALREADY RESIGNED HER POSITION AND THAT HAS BEEN FILLED BY A COMPETENT PROFESSIONAL WHO HAD BEEN IN THAT ROLE BEFORE.

>> AGAIN, THERE ARE ELECTION CHALLENGES IN THOSE TWO DISTRICTS AND THEY ARE BASICALLY ASKING FOR A NEW ELECTION.

ARGUING THAT THAT'S ALLOWED IN THE CODE.

THERE IS AN INSTANCE IN THE '90s WHERE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ORDERED A NEW ELECTION FOR THE SAME THING.

YOU WERE MENTIONING THE LAW HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN.

>> 17-13-87 DOES NOT ALLOW FOR A REVOTE TO OCCUR UNLESS ALL OPTIONS HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED AND IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO IDENTIFY WHO THE WINNER WOULD BE IN THAT CONTEST, WHO THE INDIVIDUAL WAS WHO RECEIVED THE MOST VOTES, THE MOST LEGAL VOTES IN THE RACE.

THAT'S WHERE WE ARE TODAY AND THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE OCCURS AS FAR AS CONCLUSIONS ARE CONCERNED.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS ALWAYS A REMEDY AND THE REMEDY CAN BE OUTSIDE OF THE PARTY BANNER GOING TO THE COURTS.

IF THEY WANT TO FILE A LAWSUIT, THEN OBVIOUSLY THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND THEN WE WOULD SEE HOW THAT WAS ADJUDICATED.

BUT OUR POSITION IS WHAT I JUST STATED TO YOU.

>> BOTTOM LINE, YOU THINK IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THAT A NEW, A REVOTE WOULD TAKE PLACE IN THOSE TWO HOUSE DISTRICTS OR JUST ETOWAH COUNTY.

>> I'M CONFIDENT THAT WILL NOT OCCUR BY THE 21st OF JUNE.

>> OKAY.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF COMPLAINTS FROM SOME IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT DEMOCRATS ARE VOTES MORE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY A BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR BALLOT FILLED OUT AND THAT'S IMPACTING REPUBLICAN ELECTIONS.

CERTAINLY WHATLEY HAS BEEN -- THERE HAVE BEEN WHISPERS OF THIS IN THE WHATLEY RACE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO ONE VOTE BUT WE HAVE OPEN PRIMARIES, RIGHT?

ANYBODY CAN GO AND VOTE IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

>> WE HAVE OPEN AND CLOSED PRIMARIES AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

IT MEANS ONCE YOU IDENTIFY AS A MEMBER OF A PARTICULAR PARTY BY PARTICIPATING IN THAT PRIMARY, IF YOU VOTE IN THE RUNOFF YOU HAVE TO STAY WITH THE SAME PARTY N. THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE YOU CAN START OVER AND CHANGE YOUR VOTE.

YOU CAN VOTE FOR THE OTHER PARTY IF YOU CHOOSE.

THAT'S A CHOICE THE VOTER HAS EVERY ELECTION CYCLE.

>> IT WOULD BE PRETTY DRAMATIC STEP TO GO TO A COMPLETE CLOSED PRIMARY WHERE YOU HAVE TO BASICALLY REGISTER AS A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT BECAUSE YOU WOULD THEN HAVE TO DEREGISTER AND SWAP.

CONSIDERING HOW MANY PEOPLE SWITCH PARTIES.

>> IRONICALLY SENATOR WHATLEY HAS ASKED FOR THAT.

BUT IT HASN'T BEEN ADVANCED.

>> FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WOULD MOVING TO A CLOSED PRIMARY, A TRULY CLOSED PRIMARY BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE STATE?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT WOULD DEPEND ON WHAT THE PEOPLE REALLY WANTED.

I CAN'T SAY.

I CAN SAY I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BE RELUCTANT TO IDENTIFY AS A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT EXCLUSIVELY.

NOW PEOPLE ARE ALL INDEPENDENT AND THEY CHOOSE THEIR PARTY THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR PRIMARY AND RUNOFF ELECTION CYCLE.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH STRAIGHT PARTY REGISTRATION.

>> IT'S AN ISSUE TO WATCH.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

I KNOW YOU HAVE HAD A BUSY WEEK BUT APPRECIATE YOU COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> THANK YOU, TODD, ALWAYS GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> YOU ARE WATCHING ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

>> I'M JOINED BY DR. KAREN LANDERS.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME, TODD.

>> CONGRATULATIONS FOR NAMED CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER.

WHAT IS YOUR ROLE AS CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER AT PUBLIC HEALTH?

>> I'M A CAREER PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICER.

I'M A PEDIATRICIAN AND HAVE BEEN WITH THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS AND MY ROLE AS CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER IS TO ASSIST DR. HARRIS IN HIS ACTIVITIES DAY TO DAY AS STATE HEALTH OFFICER.

BASICALLY HELPING WITH A NUMBER OF PROGRAMS IN THE DEPARTMENT INCLUDING COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, HOME HEALTH, HEALTH PROVIDER STANDARDS, THE HIV DIVISION OF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND THE FAMILY HEALTH SERVICES.

AGAIN, REALLY ASSISTING WITH THE OPERATIONAL ACTIVITIES OF THOSE PROGRAMS AND ENSURING THAT WE DO ALL WE CAN TO PROMOTE AND PROTECT THE HEALTH OF THE CITIZENS OF ALABAMA.

>> YOU MENTIONED BEING A CAREER PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIAL.

SO, YOU HAVE SEEN THE DEPARTMENT EVOLVE AND PROBABLY THE AREA EVOLVE OVER MANY YEARS.

THERE'S BEEN A SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFICULT COUPLE OF YEARS FOR THE DEPARTMENT.

HAS RETAINING DOCTORS AND NURSES BEEN A CHALLENGE IN COVID, GIVEN THE INTENSITY OF THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS?

>> I THINK IF WE LOOK ACROSS OUR SPECTRUM AND LOOK AT OUR EMPLOYEES IN THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, WE, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY COVID, WHETHER IT IS A FAMILY MEMBER, OURSELVES, AS PERSONS WHO HAVE HAD THIS DISEASE, LOSING LOVED ONES, LOSING FRIENDS AND THEN JUST THE OVERALL ACTIVITIES OF TRYING TO CARRY OUT OUR DUTIES DAY TO DAY IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.

SO, YES, IT HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY CHALLENGING IN KEEPING A NURSING STAFF ON BOARD BECAUSE NURSES, FIRST OF ALL, ARE FRONT LINE AND SECOND LINE THEY ARE IN HIGH DEMAND.

WE ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE A GREAT CREW OF NURSES IN THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH BUT MANY OF THEM HAVE LEFT IN COVID AND A LOT OF IT HAS BEEN THE TREMENDOUS WORK, THE TREMENDOUS BURDEN OF THAT, FAMILY ISSUES OR GOING INTO ANOTHER FIELD, ESPECIALLY AFTER COVID.

IN TERMS OF PHYSICIANS, WE JUST RECENTLY HAD OUR CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER DR. McINTYRE TO RETIRE.

TOUGH ACT TO FOLLOW.

GREAT, GREAT PHYSICIAN.

WE HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE TO BRING ON A COUPLE OF PHYSICIANS, BUT AGAIN OUR MEDICAL GROUP IS REALLY FAIRLY SMALL WHEN WE CONSIDER OUR PHYSICIAN CREW.

WE HAVE DR. HARRIS INFECTIOUS DISEASES, MY BACKGROUND IS PEDIATRICS AND COMMUNICABLE DISEASES.

WE HAVE DR. TAYLOR IN BCD AND DR. STUBBLEFIELD, WHO'S OUR NEW PHYSICIAN WHO HAS COME ON BOARD TO HELP US.

DR. GARY PUGH AND JEFFERSON AND MOBILE HAVE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT POSITIONS.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE FAIRLY THIN AS FAR AS PHYSICIAN AND WOULD LIKE TO RECRUIT MORE.

>> MAYBE THERE ARE SOME FOLKS WATCHING TONIGHT THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTED.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT COVID.

WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE BA-2 SUB VARIANT.

IS IT POSING AS BIG OF A THREAT HEALTH WISE AND ILLNESS WISE AS THE OTHER WAVES OF COVID?

>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT BA-2 IN VARIANT AND SUB VARIANTS.

VIRUSES MUTATE.

AS THEY MUTATE THEY FIND WAYS TO ESCAPE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE VACCINE TO SOME EXTENT AND ESCAPE THERAPEUTICS TO SOME EXTENT.

CURRENTLY WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE BA-2 AND THE SUB VARIANTS IS IT IS MORE CONTAGIOUS AND ABILITY TO CAUSE DISEASE IN PEOPLE VACCINATED.

I WANT TO POINT OUT, EVEN IF YOU GET COVID AND YOU HAVE BEEN VACCINATED YOUR CHANCE OF HAVING A SEVERE CASE OF COVID, GETTING IN THE HOSPITAL AND DYING IS MUCH, MUCH LESS THAN IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED.

SO WE WILL SEE VARIANTS.

COVID IS GOING TO BE WITH US.

IT'S GOING TO INFECT PEOPLE.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE SHIFTED FROM AN ATMOSPHERE THAT WE WERE INTO BEING ABLE TO BE MANAGE COVID IF WE CAN GET PEOPLE VACCINATED AND ALSO HAVE PEOPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EARLY THERAPEUTICS FOR COVID THAT WE DID NOT HAVE TWO YEARS AGO.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

IT DOES SEEM LIKE WE MIGHT BE IN A LONG PERIOD OF COVID BEING AROUND.

DOES THIS DIFFERENT WAYS OF INFECTION GIVE US MORE IMMUNITY, WILL IT BE MORE MANAGEABLE?

>> I THINK IT WILL BE MORE MANAGEABLE.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, AGAIN, COVID, CERTAINLY EVEN WITH VACCINATED PERSONS, THEY MAY HAVE LESS LEVEL OF IMMUNITY THAN PERHAPS AGAINST THE EARLIER WAVES, BUT WE STILL FIND THE VACCINE TO BE EFFECTIVE OVERALL IN KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF THE HOSPITAL AND DYING.

I THINK THAT'S THE GOAL OF ANY VACCINE.

OF COURSE, WE HAVE THERAPEUTICS WE DIDN'T HAVE A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ORAL, ANTI--VIRAL AGENTS.

WE HAVE THE REMDESIVIR, WHICH IS AN IV DRUG AND WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO USE THAT.

AND OUTPATIENT AND ALSO HAVE A MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY THAT IS EFFECTIVE.

WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH SEVERAL ITERATIONS OF MAN KNOW COLONIAL ANTIBODIES WHERE COVID WOULD FIND ITS WAY AROUND THAT, BUT WE STILL HAVE ONE BUT WE ARE IN BETTER SHAPE IN TERMS OF THERAPEUTICS.

I WOULD URGE PEOPLE, EVEN NOW, WHEN PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTED FROM COVID, TO PLEASE REMEMBER IF YOU HAVE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS BEFORE YOU GO OUT AND ABOUT GET TESTED.

YOU CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT.

I HAVE ORDERED TWO SETS MYSELF TO KEEP AT HOME.

THEY ARE USEFUL AND THEY ARE STILL TESTS OUT AND AVAILABLE THROUGH MEDICAL PROVIDERS, URGENT CARE CLINICS, ET CETERA.

I WOULD URGE PEOPLE IF YOU HAVE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS STAY HOME, TEST YOURSELF OR ARRANGE TO BE TESTED AND THEN KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU COULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR THERAPEUTICS.

THAT DEPENDS ON YOUR INDIVIDUAL HEALTH CONDITION AND THE JUDGMENT OF YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT VACCINES.

THERE ARE PLENTY OF FOLKS WHO MAY THINK WE ARE OUT OF THE WOODS BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE PANIC IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST AND THINK, I DON'T KNOW TO GET A VACCINE OR GET BOOSTED BECAUSE WE ARE MAYBE OUT OF THE WOODS.

WHAT WOULD YOUR ADVICE BE TO THOSE FOLKS?

>> AS A PHYSICIAN MYSELF, I'M REMINDING PEOPLE CONSTANTLY THAT VACCINES HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENTS THIS HEALTHCARE IN THE LAST CENTURY AND IN THIS CENTURY.

THERE HAVE BEEN DISEASES THAT HAVE LARGELY GONE AWAY IN MY CAREER AS A PHYSICIAN AS A RESULT OF VACCINES OR WE HAVE GOTTEN THOSE UNDER CONTROL.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH COVID.

MY MEDICAL ADVICE IS TO STAY UP TO DATE ON YOUR VACCINE.

I'M A MOTHER.

I HAVE TWO ADULT DAUGHTERS.

OF COURSE THEIR HUSBANDS AND MY FAMILY HAS BEEN VERY, VERY PROACTIVE IN GETTING THEIR VACCINES AND STAYING UP TO DATE.

I REMEMBER PEOPLE, PEDIATRICIAN, I'M A MOTHER, AND I TELL PEOPLE, I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE MY CHILD, REGARDLESS OF THE AGE THAT I WOULDN'T TAKE MYSELF AND I'M NOT GOING TO PROMOTE THIS -- BOTH OF MY DAUGHTERS, BEING IN THE EARLY 30s AGE GROUP HAVE WANTED TO BE A VOICE FOR WOMEN IN TERMS OF WOMEN'S PREVENTATIVE HEALTHCARE AND SAYING THEY TOOK THE VACCINE AND THE BOOSTERS AND THEY BELIEVE IT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR WOMEN TO STAY HEALTHY AND CERTAINLY IN THE REPRODUCTIVE YEARS, BE AWARE THAT COVID IN PREGNANCY CAN BE VERY SEE VEER DISEASE AND CAN CAUSE FETAL LOSS OR PREMATURITY.

SO, AGAIN, BOTH OF MY DAUGHTERS DON'T HAVE CHILDREN BUT REALLY WANTED TO ADD THEIR VOICE, AS WOMEN, TO ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN'S HEALTH.

>> UH-HUH.

SWITCHING GEARS A BIT.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER INFECTIOUS DISEASE IN THE NEWS, MONKEYPOX.

SHOULD PEOPLE BE CONCERNED.

>> MONKEYPOX IS NOT COVID.

I WANT TO BE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT IF YOU HAVE HEARD IT.

IT IS AN ORTHO POX VIRUS AND WE HAVE KNOWN ABOUT MONKEYPOX SINCE THE LATE 1950s AND IT HAS BEEN PRIMARILY IN WEST AFRICA AND THE AREAS AROUND THAT PARTICULAR CONTINENT AS AN ENDEMIC DISEASE.

WHAT WE HAVE RECENTLY SEEN IS SOME CASES OF MONKEYPOX IN OTHER COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD THAT HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY REPORTED MONKEYPOX.

IT JUMPED TO HUMANS FROM PRIMARIES BUT I TELL PEOPLE IT IS AN ORTHO POX VIRUS.

IT HAS A PARTICULAR CHARACTERISTIC RASH THAT CAN OCCUR, WHICH OCCURS USUALLY AFTER FEVER, CHILLS AND ENLARGED LYMPH NODES.

PARTICULARLY CHARACTERISTIC RASH.

WE HAVE SOME PICTURES ON OUR WEBSITE OF THIS.

WE URGE PEOPLE TO BE AWARE OF THIS DISEASE AND RISK FACTORS THAT IF OCCURRED WITH THIS DISEASE IN TERMS OF POTENTIAL INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL OR OTHER EXPOSURES, AGAIN, WE HAVE INFORMATION ON OUR WEBSITE BUT BE AWARE THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH, WE HAVE STOOD UP OUR SCIENTIFIC RESPONSE TEAM ON THIS.

SEVERAL OF US ARE CONVERSANT AND AWARE AND FAMILIAR WITH THE ORTHO POX VIRUSES AND REGULAR CONVERSATION OF MEASURES THAT MAY NEED TO BE IMPLEMENTED.

OUR STATE LAB CAN DO TESTING FOR PERSONS THAT NEED TO BE TESTED.

PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF IT.

WE HAVE EDUCATION SHEETS ON OUR WEBSITE ABOUT MONKEYPOX BUT WE DON'T WANT TO PEOPLE TO BE ALARMED ABOUT MONKEYPOX OTHER THAN BEING AWARE OF IT, BEING AWARE OF RISK FACTORS AND BEING AWARE TO SPEAK WITH YOUR PHYSICIAN IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE SIGNS OR SYMPTOMS RELATED TO THIS.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT BABY FORMULA.

WE ARE SEEING A NATIONAL SHORTAGE.

IT IS AN EMERGENCY.

THEY HAVE MILITARY PLANES FLYING BABY FORMULA AROUND.

HOW IS ALABAMA FARING COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY?

DO WE HAVE A SHORTAGE IN THE STATE?

>> I BELIEVE EVERY STATE HAS BEEN INFLUENCED AND AFFECTED BY THIS.

KEEP IN MIND, THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVES 27500 RECIPIENTS THROUGH OUR WIC PROGRAM.

OUR CONTRACT IS WITH MEAD JOHNSON AND THAT WAS NOT THE COMPANY THAT HAD THE RECALL.

AT THIS MOMENT, OUR WIC REDEMPTION, WHICH WE ASSESS IN REALTIME SEEMS TO BE STABLE.

WE HAVE MADE MODIFICATIONS IN OUR WIC FORMULA PROGRAM TO ENSURE THEY COULD BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO GET MEAD JOHNSON PRODUCTS AND WE KNOW THE GENERAL PUBLIC NOT INVOLVED IN WIC HAS BEEN AFFECTED BUT WE WHAT CAN SAY IN ALABAMA IS, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE MEAD JOHNSON STATE, SO WE WERE A LITTLE LESS AFFECTED AT THE MOMENT BECAUSE OF OUR CONTRACT, BUT OTHER PRODUCTS ARE AVAILABLE, OTHER PRODUCTS CAN BE SUBSTITUTED AND I TELL PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT WIC RECIPIENTS IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM FINDING THE FORMULA BRAND THAT YOU NORMALLY GIVE YOUR CHILD, PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR PEDIATRICIAN OR FAMILY PHYSICIAN OF SWITCHING TO AN ALTERNATE FORMULA.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THEM ON THE MARKET THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR AND COULD BE USED INTERCHANGEABLY.

WE WANT TO REMIND PEOPLE, DON'T TRY TO MAKE YOUR OWN FORMULA OR LOOK ON THE INTERNET FOR RECIPES AND DON'T DILUTE THE FORMULA TO MAKE IT LAST LONGER BECAUSE THESE CAN BE DANGEROUS TO CHILDREN.

CHECK WITH YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER AND BE AWARE OF WIC INCOME GUIDELINES.

THERE MIGHT BE PEOPLE ELIGIBLE FOR WIC THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY NOT ELIGIBLE BECAUSE WE JUST REVISED OUR INCOME GUIDELINES.

>> THERE ARE PROBABLY A LOT OF FOLKS, LIKE ME, WHO DON'T HAVE CHILDREN.

SO THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN THROUGH THE BABY FORMULA THING AND DON'T UNDERSTAND A LOT ABOUT IT.

CAN YOU -- AS A PEDIATRICIAN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY BABY FORMULA IS IMPORTANT IN TODAY'S PEDIATRICS?

>> THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT EVERY PARENT IN ALABAMA IS CONCERNED ABOUT AND WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT CHILDREN GET APPROPRIATE NUTRIENTS AND APPROPRIATE NUTRITION.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF BABY FORMULA.

CERTAINLY AS FEWER WOMEN HAVE BEEN BREAST-FEEDING IN THE LAST CENTURY, CERTAINLY AND STARTING INTO THIS CENTURY, WE PROMOTE BREAST-FEEDING BUT RECOGNIZE IT DOESN'T WORK OUT FOR EVERY WOMAN.

WHAT WE WANT INFANTS TO HAVE IS A PRODUCT OR FORMULA IS BASED AS CLOSE TO BREAST MILK AS POSSIBLE AND IT HAS TO BE MANUFACTURED TO CERTAIN GUIDELINES SO THE APPROPRIATE PROTEINS AND SUGARS AND ELECTROLYTES ARE IN THAT FORMULA.

SO THAT WHAT THE INFANT CONSUMES IS NOT GOING TO BE A COUNTERBALANCE, IF YOU WILL, TO THE METABOLISM AND THAT IT WILL BE NOURISHING TO THE INFANT.

WE ABSOLUTELY KNOW THAT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU USE A PRODUCT THAT, AGAIN, IS APPROPRIATELY MANUFACTURED.

I WANT TO THROW IN SOMETHING.

ACTUALLY IN THE LATE '70s I WAS IN RESIDENCY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF A TENNESSEE AND WORKED WITH DR. ROY WHO WAS THE FIRST DOCTOR THAT DISCOVERED A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE IN CHILDREN WHO WERE TAKING A CERTAIN TYPE OF SOY FORMULA.

KEEPING IN MIND THE INFANT FORMULA ACT PUT INTO PLACE AFTER THAT, THAT STARTED OUT WITH DR. SHANE ROY.

IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE BEEN ALWAYS AWARE OF.

ONE OF MY OTHER MENTORS, DR. PETER WITTINGTON WHO WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO IN THE GI DEPARTMENT MADE US AWARE, AS RESIDENTS OF ALL OF THE COMPONENTS IN THE FORMULAS, WHAT THIS AND THAT FORMULA INDICATION WAS AND CERTAINLY KIDS THAT NEEDED SPECIAL FORMULAS.

A LOT OF CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE IN THE LAST 40 OR SO YEARS ABOUT INFANT FORMULA BUT TO ENSURE THIS PRODUCT IS APPROPRIATE NUTRITIONALLY AND SAFE FOR INFANTS TO CONSUME.

>> WELL, I'M REALLY GLAD WE HAD YOU ON TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THAT, FOR MY SAKE AND THE AUDIENCE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU, TODD.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> YOU CAN WATCH PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" ONLINE AT VIDEO@APTV.ORG.

"CAPITOL JOURNAL" EPISODES ARE ALSO AVAILABLE ON APTV'S FREE MOBILE APP.

YOU CAN ALSO CONNECT WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" AND LINK TO PAST EPISODES ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" FACEBOOK PAGE.

AND YOU CAN LISTEN TO PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" WHEN YOU ARE DRIVING OR ON THE GO WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" PODCASTS.

>> NEXT, I'M JOINED BY DAVID MOWERY, CHAIRMAN OF THE MOWERY CONSULTING GROUP.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> HEY, MAN.

IT WAS FUN.

>> WE DID PREVIEW OF THE ELECTION A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO SO I'M GLAD TO HAVE YOU ON FOR POST ELECTION ANALYSIS BECAUSE IT WAS INTERESTING RESULTS.

LET'S START WITH THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

IVEY WINNING WITHOUT A RUNOFF, 55% OF THE VOTE.

WHAT WERE YOUR TAKEAWAYS FROM HER VICTORY?

>> I THINK THAT NOW PEOPLE MAY FINALLY REALIZE THEY SHOULD TAKE A KAY IVEY SERIOUSLY.

IS SHE THE GEORGE WALLACE ABOUT THE 20st CENTURY, NOT TALKING ABOUT THE WAY SHE TALKS OR GOVERNS, BUT MAYBE THE LONGEST SERVING, IF SHE SERVES FULL TERM SHE WILL BE THE LONGEST TO HOLD THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

MY IMPRESSION, IT IS COOL AND STRONG THAT SHE, YOU KNOW BASICALLY SLAPPED THEM.

THE INTERESTING THING FOR ALL THE AMOUNT SPENT.

>> A LOT OF MONEY SPENT.

>> DID THEY MOVE ANY IN THE POLLS, MOVE HER DOWN AT ALL?

>> I THINK AT THE BEGINNING -- I THINK WE DID POLLING IN MARCH OF LAST YEAR AND SHE WAS POLLING 62%.

SO MILLIONS AND MILLIONS WORTH OF ATTACK ADS, 12, $14 MILLION OF ATTACK ADS TO MOVE HER FIVE POINTS SEEMS LIKE A FAILED CAMPAIGN.

>> YOU HAVE TO KNOW SHE IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GET 60.

MOST POLITICIANS AND SITTING GOVERNORS, INCREDIBLE OPPONENTS WITH MONEY ARE -- 60% IS GETTING THE BRAKES BEAT OFF OF YOU.

55% IS LIKE A 12th ROUND KNOCKOUT AND NOT A TKO.

SHE KNOCKED THEM OUT.

I DON'T THINK ANY OF THE TOP CONTENDERS, EXCEPT MAYBE BURDETTE.

>> I AGREE.

WITH YOU ABOUT BURDETTE.

>> IT DIDN'T WORK.

SO THE LEVEL ON NASTINESS, IS THIS A REPUDIATION OF THAT LEVEL OF ATTACK ADS, THAT LEVEL OF VITRIOL?

>> MAYBE.

I THINK IT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

THAT IS THAT PEOPLE MAKE TWO BIG MISTAKES WHEN THEY GET INTO CAMPAIGN.

THEY CONFLATE THEIR OPINION FOR PUBLIC OPINION.

IF I THINK IT EVERYBODY MUST THINK IT.

I'M A LOGICAL PERSON.

I NEVER DO THAT BECAUSE IF THE PUBLIC THOUGHT LIKE ME I WOULD BE WORRIED.

THE OTHER THING THEY DO IS WHEN THEY TEST NEGATIVES -- IF YOU SAY I SAID THIS ABOUT TODD STACY, WOULD IT MAKE YOU MORE OR LESS LIKELY TO VOTE FOR THEM, I THINK SOMETIMES THEY ARE EVALUATING IT ON THE INFORMATION AND NOT TELLING THE POLLSTER IF THEY BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

>> YES.

>> SO IN THE ABSTRACT SAYING GOVERNOR IVEY HAD A MASK MANDATE OR IS A LIBERAL OR WHATEVER, IF THAT WERE TRUE, THAT WOULD AFFECT MY VOTE, RIGHT?

I THINK THERE THIS IS A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE AND THEY THINK IT WOULD EFFECT MY VOTE BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT.

THEY COULDN'T MAKE ANYTHING STICK.

THERE'S NOTHING THEY COULD DO TO MAKE IT STICK.

>> COMPARING HER JOE BIDEN IS HARD ONE.

>> COME ON.

>> KATIE BRITT 45% TO MO BROOKS 29%.

WERE YOU SURPRISED SHE GOT THAT HIGH OF A MARGIN?

>> I WAS.

NOT TO SAY I FEEL THEY DID ANYTHING WRONG OR WHATEVER.

I ALMOST FELT LIKE WHEN SHE WAS IN THE MID-40s SHE MAY GET 50.

>> ON ELECTION NIGHT.

>> YEAH, SORRY.

WITHOUT A RUNOFF AND IT DID SURPRISE ME JUST BECAUSE I FELT LIKE A MONTH AGO THIS WAS A DIFFERENT CAMPAIGN.

I GUESS I WAS PROBABLY CONCENTRATING ON OTHER THINGS AND KIND OF MISSED THE SHIFT.

I FELT LIKE THEY WOULD LEAD, BUT MAYBE BE REACHING FOR 40, 37 WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE LET'S GO, VICTORY, 46, MO OUGHT TO CONSIDER JUST CONCEDING.

>> HE'S NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

>> I KNOW.

IT WILL BE A BIG RUNOFF.

BECAUSE ELECTION NIGHT I WAS GOING INTO ELECTION NIGHT.

MY NUMBER WAS 40.

IF SHE GOT CLOSE TO 40 OR GOT 40 IT WOULD BE A BIG THING FOR KATIE BRITT IN THE RUNOFF BUT 45, 46 SEEMS LIKE A BIG ADVANTAGE BUT YOU HAVE THE OTHER FACTOR HERE DURANT GOT 23% OF THE VOTE.

ON ELECTION DAY HE KNEW THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL AND TALKED ABOUT ENDORSING MO BROOKS.

NOW WE LEARNED HE WON'T ENDORSE MO BROOKS.

HE IS SAYING NOT ONLY WILL HE NOT ENDORSE HE IS NOT GOING TO VOTE BECAUSE HE WAS SO TURNED OFF BY HIS OPPONENTS.

>> EITHER THAT OR HE IS NOT REGISTERED HERE.

>> I'LL SAY THIS WAY, NOT HAVING A DURANT ENDORSEMENT IS THAT A TOUGH BREAK FOR MO?

>> I THINK THAT THAT VOTE, THE FORMER DURANT VOTE, THE I DATED DURANT AND MARRIED BRITT VOTE IS KIND OF REFLECTED ON ELECTION DAY.

IN THAT I THINK THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT WENT IN THERE AND WE ALL THOUGHT IF THEY DIDN'T VOTE FOR DURANT THEY WOULD VOTE FOR BROOKS.

I THINK A LOT OF THEM SAID I WILL VOTE FOR KATIE.

I REALLY DOCUMENT THERE'S NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DURANT AND BROOKS.

IT'S LIKE A PERSONALITY DIFFERENCE AND MAYBE YOU CARE ABOUT THE ARMY OR TRUMP THING, BUT I SEE THEM AS SORT OF COMPETING FOR THE SAME VOTES.

I THINK KATIE IS COMPETING FOR EVERYBODY.

>> WELL, WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE VOTERS?

DO DURANT VOTERS COME AND SUPPORT MO OR KATIE OR DO THEY SHOW UP AT ALL?

>> IS HIS STATEMENT A SHELBYESQUE IN 2017 -- SHELBY SAID I'M NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR ROY MOORE AND WRITE IN ANOTHER OPPONENT OR WHATEVER.

IS THAT A SIGNALS TO VOTERS THAT THEY SHOULDN'T VOTE.

I THINK THAT THIS MIGHT BE A LITTLE CLOSER THAN WE THINK.

BUT YOU HAVE TO GIVE HER AN ADVANTAGE.

>> HER CAMPAIGN MADE A DECISION NOT TO DEBATE WHICH IS SOMETHING I WAS INVOLVED IN.

WE HAD BASICALLY SET UP A DEBATE AND THINGS BEGAN TO GET SHAKY BUT ULTIMATELY MADE THE DECISION WE'RE NOT GOING TO DEBATE MO BROOKS.

THEY SAID HE WILL TURN IT INTO A CIRCUS.

THAT NOTWITHSTANDING THE REASONS WHY.

IT WAS A STRATEGIC CHOICE NOT TO DEBATE DO YOU THINK IT WAS A WISE ONE?

>> PROBABLY.

I DON'T SEE THEY GET ANY GAIN OUT OF IT.

SOMETIMES WHEN YOU PUT A DIRECT CONTRAST ON THE SCREEN, IN THIS CASE AN OLDER MAN AND A YOUNGER WOMAN, SOMETIMES THE MAN COMES OFF LOOKING, YOU KNOW, LOOKING LIKE HE IS BEATING UP ON THIS LITTLE 'OLE GAL OR WHATEVER.

IN THIS CASE SHE HAS SUCH A BIG LEAD.

SHE HAS SHOWN WHAT HER CAMPAIGN IS GOING TO DO ANYWAY.

I FEEL THERE IS NOT MUCH GAIN.

THE POTENTIAL GAIN IS NOT AS BAD AS THE POTENTIAL DOWN SIDE BECAUSE THE FLIP SIDE OF WHAT I'M SAYING IS SHE COULD COME OFF AS SHRILL OR YOUNGER AND OUT OF HER ELEMENT.

I DON'T THINK THE WOULD, BUT IF YOU JUST EXAMINE THE DANGERS, THE COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS IT IS BETTER TO NOT.

UNFORTUNATELY BECAUSE LIKE YOU I BELIEVE IN -- >> WELL, YOU TAKE THE INITIAL PUBLIC RELATIONS AND PEOPLE SAYING WHY AREN'T YOU DEBATING, THAT'S TWO OR THREE-DAY STORY, BUT THAT'S THE RISK OF THAT IS LESS.

HAVE WE HAVE A RECENT EXAMPLE OF A DEBATE REALLY HURTING A CANDIDATE AND MAYBE TURNING THE TIDE IN 2020 OF CONGRESSMAN MOORE AND JEFF COLEMAN WHO BY ALL ACCOUNTS WHO REALLY DID HIMSELF DAMAGE.

I HAD MORE PEOPLE ASKING ME IF I SAW THAT DEBATE AND TELL ME IT CHANGED THEIR VOTE THAN I HAVE EVER HAD ANYONE TELL ME ABOUT ANY DEBATE, EVEN A PRESIDENTIAL ONE.

>> YEAH, I GET IT.

EVERYBODY WILL BE WATCHING THAT.

>> YEAH.

>> DOWN THE BALLOT, SECRETARY OF STATE GOING TO A RUNOFF, JIM ZEIGLER IS TERM LIMITED VERSUS WES ALLEN, THE CURRENT STATE REPRESENTATIVE FROM TROY.

ZEIGLER HAD AN ADVANTAGE ON ELECTION NIGHT BUT THIS IS A NEW ELECTION.

>> WHAT WAS THE SPREAD?

I DON'T REMEMBER.

>> I THINK ABOUT TEN POINTS.

>> OH, REALLY.

>> LESS THAN TEN.

>> I THINK THE LAST TIME I SAW IT THEY WERE 43-40 OR SOMETHING.

>> I THINK IT COULD HAVE BEEN.

>> THAT IS ONE OF THOSE LIKE WHO KNOWS BECAUSE RUNOFF IS A TRICKY ANIMAL.

IT IS NORMALLY HEAVIER PARTISAN.

IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT VOTE IN EVERY ELECTION KIND OF THING BUT I DON'T KNOW WHO TO GIVE THE ADVANTAGE TO IN THAT CASE BECAUSE ALLEN HAS BEEN CAMPAIGNING A LONG TIME AND TALKED TO ALL OF THE REPUBLICAN CLUBS AND -- WHAT DO THEY SAY, IF YOU HAVE A MEETING OF MORE THAN TWO PEOPLE HE WILL SHOW UP TO TALK TO THEM AND HE HAS THE ADVANTAGE IN ADVERTISING DOLLARS OR POTENTIAL ADVERTISING DOLLARS BUT ZEIGLER, MAN, JUST KEEPS PLUGGING.

>> YEAH.

HE'S NEVER DEPENDED ON MONEY TO WIN.

I THINK THE LAST CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS HAVE WES ALLEN WITH $100,000, MORE LISTEN $100,000 AND ZEIGLER WITH $10,000.

THAT IS 10-1 ADVANTAGE.

>> THAT'S ENOUGH TO MAYBE PAY HIS GAS UP AND DOWN THE STATE, BUT -- >> IT'S LIKE A BUILT IN NAME I.D.

ON ZEIGLER, VERSUS MONEY FOR WES ALLEN.

>> I DON'T HAVE A FEEL FOR IT MAINLY BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING OFF LINE ABOUT SORT OF THE EFFECT OF NEWER VOTERS, NOT NECESSARILY YOUNGER VOTERS BUT NEWER VOTERS TO THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY, ESPECIALLY FEMALES, HAVING AN EFFECT ON THE GOVERNOR AND SENATORS' RACE.

I WONDER IF IT WILL BENEFIT ZEIGLER OR ALLEN.

OR THE PEOPLE GOING OUT TO VOTE FOR BRITT OR BROOKS.

DO THEY JUST -- IS IT AN UNDER VOTE SITUATION WHERE THEY JUST VOTE FOR THAT AND THEY DON'T CARE.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> COULD BE.

THERE WERE A LOT OF FASCINATING LEGISLATIVE RACES.

I WAS GOING THROUGH ON ELECTION NIGHT, THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION AND I COUNTED SIX INCUMBENTS IN THE HOUSE, THE STATEHOUSE.

SIX INCUMBENTS LOST.

>> SIX REPUBLICAN INCUMBENTS?

>> YEAH SIX LOST AND TWO MORE GOING TO A RUNOFF.

YOU COULD HAVE AS MANY AS EIGHT INCUMBENT REPUBLICANS LOSING.

IT SEEMS LIKE A HIGH NUMBER.

>> IT DOES, CONSIDERING IVEY ROMPS AND KATIE BRITT LEADS.

MORE SO THAN BROOKS CERTAINLY HAS A POSITIVE AGENDA FOR GOVERNANCE.

SAME WITH THE GOVERNOR.

IT'S INTERESTING THEY COULDN'T DRAFT OFF OF THAT AND THEY COULDN'T CLAIM SOME SUCCESSES FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS OR MAYBE THEY COULD -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT RACES -- AT THE STATEHOUSE LEVEL PERSONAL DYNAMICS CAN COME INTO THAT.

YOU MENTIONED ONE OF THE GUYS THAT LOST IS DISMUKES.

>> ONE OF THEM WAS DISMUKES.

HE HAD A LOT OF BAGGAGE.

CURRENTLY UNDER INDICTMENT.

YOU FACTOR THAT IN AND THINK OF JOE FAUST IN FAIRHOPE WHO WAS GETTING UP THERE IN AGE AND WAS ENCOURAGED NOT TO RUN.

IT PUMPS THE NUMBER UP MORE THAN IT SHOULD BE IN TERMS OF SHOCK VALUE.

>> STILL, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE -- LIKE ALL OVER ALABAMA -- THEY STILL LOST.

MY TEAM HAS DONE THAT MANY TIMES AND WE CLING THAT PURE MORAL VICTORY.

WELL, IF THIS HAPPENED -- EVEN THOUGH HE DID HAVE THAT DYNAMIC, HE PROBABLY NEEDED TO ADJUST FOR THAT AND THINK MAYBE THESE GUYS CAN LOSE AND WE HAVE TO SHORE UP THESE GUYS.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> CRAZY CLOSE RACE IN THE SENATE DISTRICT 27.

THAT'S AUBURN, LEE COUNTY, RUSSELL.

WHERE TOM WHATLEY LOST TO JAY HOVEY BY ONE VOTE.

THAT'S -- THIS IS AFTER COUNTING THE PROVISIONALS.

IT WAS FOUR ON ELECTION DAY AND ONE VOTE.

WHATLEY IS GOING TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTION.

WE DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT THIS IS.

THERE'S TALK OF HIM BASICALLY CHALLENGING THE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS SOMEHOW CAUSED THE LOSS.

IS THERE ANY WAY TO SUCCESSFULLY CHALLENGE AN ELECTION OR DO YOU DO A RECOUNT?

>> THERE'S LEGALISTICALLY PROBABLY SOME REASON.

I BELIEVE HE IS A LAWYER AND PROBABLY A CRAFTY ONE.

HE MAY HAVE A REASON.

CAN YOU NOT DO BOTH?

>> I THINK HE PLANS TO DO BOTH.

>> OKAY.

WHY NOT BOTH?

I DON'T KNOW.

WE HAVE, AGAIN, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE WE HAVE A HISTORY OF RECOUNTS AFFECTING RACES IN ALABAMA IF YOU GO BACK TO THE '90s I THINK.

THERE WAS A YEAR WHERE THAT WAS ADJUDICATED IN COURT.

IT WAS NORM COLEMAN AND THE COMEDIAN FROM MINNESOTA SITUATION, RIGHT?

I THINK THEY WERE ON THE PROVISIONALS LIKE FLORIDA WHERE THEY ARE LIKE IS THIS DARKENED ENOUGH OR WHATEVER.

IT IS AN INTERESTING ONE BUT THE PROBLEM I SEE IS -- LIKE OPTICALLY YOU ARE GOING TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTION IN YOUR HOME COUNTY.

AND THOSE ARE THE FOLKS THAT NORMALLY HAD BROUGHT TOM TO THE DANCE.

I THINK VASTLY TURNED AGAINST HIM.

ONE VOTE, THOUGH, IF YOU EVER THINK YOUR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

ANOTHER SURPRISING RACE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING IS YOUR CANDIDATE.

YOU WORKED FOR JOSH CARNLEY WHO DEFEATED MIKE JONES AS THE RULES CHAIRMAN IN THE HOUSE.

MOST THOUGHT CONVENTIONAL WISDOM HE WAS GOING TO RUN AWAY WITH IT.

HE DIDN'T.

JOHN CARNLEY DID.

>> WE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF EVERY MISTAKE AND I NOTICED HOW MUCH THEY WERE SPENDING MONEY AND BUYING TV AND HE IS LIKE IF WE GO ALL IN WE CAN DO IT.

WE HAD TO PULL BACK TWO WEEKS, TEN DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION.

I THINK THE DAY AFTER I CAME HERE.

IT JUST SHOWED WE HAD A CHANCE.

I FELT WE HAD A BETTER CHANCE OF DOING IT WHILE BOTH CANDIDATES WERE RUNNING POSITIVE ADS AND IT DIDN'T TURN INTO A DOG FIGHT.

LET'S GO OVER THE TOP AND WIN IT.

SO WE WENT ALL IN AND DID IT.

ONE MORE POINT AND WINNING COFFEY COUNTY, 67-33 AND HOLDING DOWN A MARGIN IN COVINGTON COUNTY IS THE STORY.

>> THAT'S THE BALLGAME.

A LOT OF RACES ARE GOING TO A RUNOFF.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT DYNAMIC THAN THE REGULAR.

WHAT'S YOUR ADVICE TO CAMPAIGNS GOING INTO A RUNOFF?

HOW CAN THEY BE SUCCESSFUL IN A RUNOFF?

>> CONCENTRATE ON THE VOTERS THAT YOU KNOW VOTED AND VOTED FOR YOU AND MAKE THEM GET OUT.

THAT SOUNDS SIMPLE BUT IT'S HARD WORK BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THEM I.D.ED BEFORE.

YOU ARE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO EXPAND THE ELECTORATE.

AND IF YOU ARE BRITT, GO FOR THE KILL.

DON'T TRY TO RUN OUT THE CLOCK.

SAME THING WITH ZEIGLER OR ALLEN.

IF YOU ARE WES ALLEN, YOU NEED TO BE GOING HARD AND HEAVY IN THE RIGHT PLACES.

YOU WIN RACES IN WEEKS FOUR AND THREE.

WEEK TWO, WEEK ONE, PEOPLE TUNE YOU OUT.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

IT GOES TO GO TV.

SO CAMPAIGNS THAT ARE ORGANIZED WILL PROBABLY HAVE THE ADVANTAGE.

BRITT CLEARLY ORGANIZED THEIR GROUND GAME WAS IMPRESSIVE AND BROOKS IS A MESSAGE GUY.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

>> IT REALLY IS.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME BUT APPRECIATE YOU COMING ON AND MAYBE WE WILL DO IT AGAIN SOON.

>> SOUNDS GOOD.

THANKS.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW TONIGHT.

WE WILL BE BACK NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT WITH ANOTHER EPISODE OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" BUT AT A DIFFERENT TIME.

8:30.

FOR "CAPITOL JOURNAL," TODD STACY.