- Hi, I'm Marc Rotterman.

Coming up on "Front Row," Governor Cooper calls for an assault weapons ban, the General Assembly gets down to business, and did US policy makers get it wrong on inflation?

Next.

- [Announcer] Major funding for "Front Row" was provided by Robert L. Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen foundation.

Committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities and by... [dramatic music] Funding for the Lightning Round provided by Boddie-Noell Foundation, NC Realtors, Mary Louise and John Burress, Rifenburg Construction, and Helen Laughery.

A complete list of funders can be found at pbsnc.org/frontrow.

[dramatic music] ♪ - Welcome back, joining the conversation, Mitch Kokai with the John Locke Foundation, Republican State Senator Vickie Sawyer, Democratic State Senator Jay Chaudhuri, and Nelson Dollar, Senior Policy Advisor and North Carolina Speaker of the House.

Mitch, let's begin with Governor Cooper's statement on the assault weapons ban.

- Within a day of the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas.

Governor Cooper released a professionally-produced video that basically had a couple of messages.

One was for Congress, calling for a requirement of universal background checks for guns and also a return of the national ban on assault weapons.

He also called on Republicans in the state legislature to deal with some gun reform issues that Democrats have proposed at the state level.

Basically, he was very conspicuous in this and calling on Republicans to move toward the Democratic position on these issues, even signaling near the end of the video that if Republicans refuse to go along with the measures that he wants that people in North Carolina should elect new leaders.

So it gives you a sense that this is more than just a message about that school shooting.

- Does he see it as a political issue in the fall?

- Oh, I am assuming that he certainly does.

It's a stark contrast, of course, to what happened with Republican Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson who after the school shooting then ended up speaking at the NRA convention unlike some other Republican officials who backed away from the NRA.

And after Lieutenant Governor Robinson spoke at that convention and made some statements about the use and the importance of having guns, Governor Cooper came out and said that those statements shamed and disgraced North Carolina.

So this is certainly gonna be an interesting issue moving forward.

- Jay, you have the floor.

- Well, look, I'd say first as a parent, nothing is tougher and more emotional than processing the shootings in Texas and have a conversation with your kids about it as we did as a family.

Governor Cooper's call on limiting access to guns really echoed President Biden's speech that he gave last night.

It's something that North Carolina Democrats have called for, but I mean, I think the choice is clear.

And I think that's been laid out through Governor Cooper's veto.

I mean, we can either do something or we can do nothing.

I think this session in Raleigh, we've done nothing.

We're seeing really not much action in Washington.

And on the other side, as Mitch mentioned, you've got Lieutenant Governor Robinson who goes down at the NRA and seems more interested in protecting the NRA than he does protecting the children.

I think from my perspective, the fact that we can't pass common-sense gun reform is a political indictment of our system on polarizing issues.

But at the same time, we know that there's a will because after the Parkland shooting a Republican governor, a Republican General Assembly passed common-sense gun reform so it's possible.

- Vickie, is this a breakdown of society?

Is this more societal, of moral decay?

- Yeah, thank you for bringing that up because I was looking at crime statistics in our major cities and although crime is down 5%, there's gun violence and homicides up 30%, but it's actually not in the whole entire city.

It's actually in those areas that are in poverty, disadvantage where the breakdown of the family unit has occurred.

You know, I look to my own church and my own faith community.

I really think that this is something that the government will never be able to solve.

I think that we need to look in ourselves in our own faith and different community organizations to come together to try to solve these problems.

- President Biden, Nelson, said that the Second Amendment's not absolute.

- Well, he has said that, but that's just not the culture of the United States and the ban- - Well, is their ultimate, the Democrats, do they want to get rid of the Second Amendment, Jay?

- No, I mean, absolutely not.

I mean the Second Amendment's not absolute.

I mean, we know that there have been rulings that the Second Amendment shouldn't be given to someone who's had a felony conviction.

I've advocated for folks that are on the terrorist watch list shouldn't get guns.

So it's not absolute.

And Democrats aren't certainly advocating for that.

We're advocating for things that have a broad popular support.

- Nelson.

- Well, what the General Assembly, what the Republicans and General Assembly have been focusing on is making our schools safer.

That's been the key issue.

So we've built up the Center for Safer Schools.

We've required threat assessment teams.

We've been providing peer-to-peer support programs.

We've been funding, particularly after 2018, we had a study committee.

We've put together more funding for peer-to-peer support, school safety grants so you can get more school resource officers in our schools, have better counseling services, make the facilities themselves safer.

We have an app that we put forward so that students themselves can anonymously report safety concerns.

And this year for the first time in the nation, in the next year, we are gonna be opening a safety and threat response training center actually at a former high school.

And you'll see more investment by the General Assembly this session.

- I'm sure we'll continue to talk about this as we go forward.

I wanna talk about the General Assembly.

Give us a briefing on their week, my friend.

- Well, if you would have told me in 2018 when I first started the General Assembly within one week I would vote for medical marijuana and we'd also vote for hemp, Medicaid expansion and then to make sure that in curriculum for kids who believe in the Easter Bunny that there is no sex education, I thought you would be smoking something.

But alas, here we are.

And as Senator Chaudhuri can attest to, it seems like the Senate Republicans versus everyone on these bills.

First, the Farm Act.

It just aligns North Carolina law to federal law to make sure that hemp production will continue to go through.

Been the least controversial Farm Act that's been around.

Medical marijuana, now this is actually, people on both sides are not very happy.

Some people say it goes too far.

Some people say not enough.

But I can tell you that Senator Bill Rabon is very passionate about getting this passed for those people who are suffering from cancer.

You know, it's not unique to me to think about, the same people who had asked for us to remove mask mandates for the past two years are also now saying that we shouldn't allow people to take other choice in healthcare when it comes to medical marijuana.

- Medicaid expansion was a big-ticket item, though, right?

- It was a big-ticket item and we'll see what the folk.

And our friends in the house are doing right now with that.

But you know, most notably it was a shift, but I think it was a thoughtful shift, especially from our senate leader, Phil Berger.

And it's good policy now for North Carolina.

- Why did it change of heart by Berger?

- Well, I think Senator Berger articulated a number of reasons.

I thought he gave a great speech that laid out a one that he felt like that Medicaid was, expansion Medicaid was never gonna be undone, no matter what the composition of congress or who owns a white house.

I think Medicaid transformation now is allowed for a number of years of surplus so that there was, and then lastly he talked about the fact that there was an off-ramp in the event the federal government didn't meet its obligation.

But I think to Senator Sawyer's point It wasn't entirely about Senate Republicans, I think Senate Democrats were aligned with Senate Republicans on both the Medicaid issue and the legalization of medical cannabis.

I will tell you it was bizarro world for me because the speeches that were given on the floor for both those bills, you thought they were given democratic talking points frankly.

- The Locke foundation has come out against us, right, it is a new entitlement right Mitch?

- Well, it's an expansion of an existing entitlement.

You would put 100s of 1000s of additional people on government healthcare when putting people on a government program is generally not the right way to go.

The interesting thing to me about both of those pieces of legislation that we've been talking about is they're not just Medicaid expansion and not just medical marijuana as a general concept.

There are a lot of details in those bills that could help sink them.

The Medicaid expansion bill comes along with a number of healthcare reforms like Certificate of Need reform.

- Right.

- Allowing nurses to practice to the full scope of their training that are supply side issues and ones that the lock foundation has liked, but a lot of the people who like Medicaid, especially don't like them and don't wanna see them happen on the medical marijuana bill.

- Right.

- Because of the fact that it has a lot of restrictions.

I think a lot of the people who wanna see that are not real thrilled with the bill.

- No, so wrap this up in about 40 seconds.

- Well look, the general assembly created a two year budget.

This session came into effect in 1974 when the Democrats control the legislature and they didn't want the first Republican in a 100 years as governor to be able to make those adjustments in the budget.

So the house's position is, let's get back to the original intent.

Let's go back and make the adjustments that we need to make in the budget, leave these major policy issues for the long session.

That's where they're most properly dealt with at and let's get outta town by the end of this month.

- Okay, I'm coming right back to you Nelson, the Biden administration fessed up inflation is a problem, they admitted it this week.

- Absolutely.

For a decade, [chuckles] we were in really a deflationary environment, but the federal reserve, the Biden administration basically adopted the conventional thinking that inflation was a thing of the past, government confront and spend.

- Transitory.

- Well, I'm getting to that.

[chuckles] You know, really though the view that government can print and spend all the money they want and if inflation arises, well, you just tax it away.

And that is fundamentally wrong.

It's just like, if you gotta sink, you start filling it, you close the drain, you start filling it with water.

The overflow's not gonna take it.

It's gonna come out more of it.

So what the Biden administration, as you said, first did was say, okay, inflation was transitory.

Then they sort of changed their tune and said, well, we have to begin blaming it on pandemic, supply chains, Russia, all of those things had a play in there.

Now the plan is to send out treasury secretary Janet Yellen to take the blame.

You know, I was wrong.

[chuckles] The [indistinct].

And pass.

- That's traditional.

That traditional.

And - Can't be the president's fault.

- Yes, that's right.

[chuckles] And pass the responsibility for actually fixing the problem to the Federal Reserve which could land you in, which gonna land you with higher interest rates, possibly a recession.

Basically it's been a failure of government for a number of years to understand the weaknesses of the global system and to unwisely cast off basic economic fundamentals.

- But this is a tax on families, isn't it?

It is, and this is something that we all are talking about around the kitchen table.

You know, I'm a small business owner and employer and it is very stressful for us to have to manage just our workforce and make sure that we retain and keep those employees.

So this is the reason why you're seeing these polls that are coming out with generic Republican ballots looking like it's gonna be really tough for you guys, Jay, in the fall.

But quite frankly, I see why because this is serious issues facing each and every one of us.

- This is all driven by energy though, isn't it Jay?

Why not just deregulate the oil and gas?

- Well, it's not just energy, right?

I mean, I think part.

- But these are Biden's policies, right, that have driven this?

- I mean, not entirely.

I mean, I think.

- Well, inflation was at 1.3 when Trump left.

- Well look, I think one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that the Russia invasion of Ukraine has accelerated and made this more problematic as far as inflation.

We know that the supply chain is contributing to that too.

I mean, I don't disagree with Vicky.

I mean, this will be the number one issue I think for voters to grapple with.

And it's something that we feel both at the gas pump and at the kitchen table because of buying groceries.

But look, I think from the Democrat's point of view, I mean, I think defense makes the best offense.

And I think today, I mean, this week you saw leader Dan Blue talk about the need for a gas tax holiday, we've talked about bringing some of the manufacturing back to the United States.

- Well, isn't that short term solution though, a gas tax holiday?

I mean, we're talking to, gas buddies talking about $5 of gas in July in North Carolina.

- Well, I think it's a short term solution that can help us get through inflation, but secondly, and more importantly, I mean, I think there are real issues about supply chain and making sure we bring manufacturing back, back to the US.

And look, this can't go without saying that Donald Trump's tax law in 2018 actually encouraged our companies to go overseas that has contributed to the problem.

And so, it's easy to point the blame just to Democrats, but Donald Trump is gonna do this.

- Hold on just a second.

Mitch, most jump in here.

- Well, we talk about inflation and have it yet mention the word stimulus, which is the federal government pumping trillions of dollars into the economy and not expecting prices to go up.

That is the textbook.

- Pay people to stay at home.

- Yeah, the textbook definition.

- Right.

- Of inflation is too much money chasing too few goods.

If you have the same amount of goods, but a ton of more money in the economy because of various rounds of stimulus, you're gonna get inflation.

The Biden administration didn't seem to take that into account, even though people like a former Clinton and Obama era treasury expert Lawrence Summers was saying, this is gonna be a problem.

Probably inflation, probably stagflation.

- And Jamie Dimon said yesterday that we're gonna have an economic storm.

And he's the head of JPMorgan.

Okay, I want to talk to Jay about the student loan forgiveness plan that just got started by the president.

- Yeah, so a pretty big announcement in this space, but in 2020, just as a reminder to viewers, on the campaign trail, then candidate Biden promised that he would eliminate up to $10,000 in federal student loan debt per borrower.

And this week he announced that he was canceling $5.8 billion in student loan debt for more than half a million borrowers who attended now the defunct network of the for profit college known as Corinthian Colleges.

It's one of the largest discharges ever made by the US Department of Education.

- [Marc] These are failed colleges?

- This is a failed college that engaged in a lot of predatory loans and misled their students.

And so President Biden now, as of date has canceled student debt of up to $25 billion.

He's also extended the pandemic related pauses of student loan interest payments, but Biden faces a challenge because both from Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senator Elizabeth Warren, they would like to see him cancel debt up to $50,000 per borrower through executive actions.

- Well, that gets into the trillions, doesn't it?

- Well, it'll get up into the billions and I think the president's challenge is twofold.

One is whether he has the executive authority to do so and secondly, does it make sense to cancel student debt at that limit, based on the fact that people have other debts and then you're prioritizing one type of debt over the other.

- Well, is it legal Nelson, for him to do this?

Does he have the constitutional authority to do this?

- No, he can't direct somewhere between $360 billion to, as you say, $1.8 trillion in debt.

For the class of '22, this would get the award for the worst spending policy out there.

It's regressive, it increases income inequality, it gives debt relief to only one group of individuals.

It doesn't help people, let's say with healthcare debt and even others.

Think about the people who actually paid as they went, who chose lower cost educational opportunities or who have already paid off their student loans.

They don't get any relief.

And if you mortgaged your house, went in and got a loan, I mean, went in and paid your tuition and fees, you're not gonna see any of this debt relief.

And what's gonna happen in the future?

We're gonna come back and keep repeating these programs?

It's ultimately not gonna sell.

- Vicky, is this a play for millennials' vote in 2022?

- Yeah, if you look at the demographics for the Democratic Party, the folks like me, right?

White educated females are making up the backbone of that.

There are also folks like me who still may have student loan debt.

So I see it as a very political play.

I understand the reason why they wanna talk about anything but inflation and the economy and the hardships that we're having here in America.

But yeah, to me, it's just all about politics.

- Mitch?

- One of the interesting things about the announcement that came out this week is that this is really the low hanging fruit.

You're talking about a failed college, you're talking about just a small portion.

It's $5.8 billion, which is a lot of money, but the overall debt is 1.6 trillion.

So it's a drop in the bucket.

And we've talked about this already, but this is something that is really geared toward upper middle class folks.

This is not toward the people who need the most relief.

If you're gonna have the government giving relief, those folks don't have college debt.

Remember, the people who have the most college debt are those who went to grad school and took out a big loan for that.

They're not the people who are the first time students getting a bachelor's degree or going to a community college or something of that sort.

- Jay, wrap this up in about 30 seconds.

- I mean, look, I think Mitch talks about something that's really interesting about what we're seeing with student loan debt is that the administration has addressed it and focused on low hanging fruit.

So when you've got for profit colleges that have engaged in predatory lending, well, there's actually a provision in the contract between the student and the lender that allows for those debts to be canceled.

I mean, I think that's where the focus ought to be.

- Okay, let's go to the most under reported story of the week, Mitch.

- The Federal Election Commission has sent letters to at least four North Carolina congressional candidates telling them you better correct the record or you could pay the price for not doing so.

They have a warning to fix their campaign finance reports, incumbent Democratic Congresswoman Kathy Manning apparently took too much money from a a single donor.

Democratic candidate Jeff Jackson, your colleague in the state Senate now, took multiple several excessive donations that he's saying that perhaps it was 'cause people were donating to his US Senate campaign then his congressional campaign.

Also Democrat Charles Graham, a member of the House, hadn't filed a report for pre-primary at all.

And then there was a Republican candidate, Courtney Geels, who didn't give enough information on her campaign.

So it's interesting to see that the Federal Election Commission-- - [Marc] So mistakes were made?

- Mistakes were made.

- Does Madison Cawthorn follow in this report?

- I don't know if Madison Cawthorn did, but you know, he's on our almost permanent down list, but he did not get a letter this time around.

- Vicky.

- Well, in the theme of inflation, so as of April 30th, North Carolina schools, districts and charter schools have only spent about $2.4 billion of the 6.2 billion that was given to them of the federal COVID-19.

Now, they do have until September of 2024.

But again, when we were talking about inflation and you see, again, all those dollars chasing the same type of work, it's a concern for getting that money.

- Are people watching how that money's being spent?

Is there a mechanism to do that?

- Well, if you've ever met our state auditor, Beth Wood, you know that she is watching how people are spending this money, but yes, we do have some oversight for these and I'm sure that we will find things in errors as we move forward.

- Jay?

- Ezra Klein, the columnist for the "New York Times" on Sunday had a really interesting piece about how Democrats need to figure out a better way to deliver government programs like new health insurance plans or high speed rail more effectively and successfully.

He argues that Democrats don't do so because they're more focused on process rather than outcome.

And the reason that they're more focused on process is because the party is dominated by lawyers and not managers.

And I think it's a fascinating read.

I think a lot of Democrats should read it because I think when we talk about programs and how we deliver them effectively and successfully, I think Klein's piece raises a lot of issues for-- - So it's a message problem for Democrats right now?

- I think it could be a management problem in making sure that you get your projects delivered on time.

- Nelson.

- A reformed lawyer, right?

[all laughing] - [Marc] Recovery.

- Recovery.

Michael Sussmann was acquitted this week in the first trial from John Durham's investigation into the origins of Russiagate.

However, the testimony did reveal the extent to which Hillary Clinton's campaign was pushing a false narrative that Trump, his family, his campaign was actively colluding with the Russians.

In particular, a bogus story shared by Clinton campaign manager.

Robbie Mook linked Trump with the Russia's Alpha bank and a host of data issues.

Mook testified that it, he discussed it with Hillary and she agreed that they needed to share it with reporters, of course, candidates lying about each other is nothing new but the governments later engagement with the narrative that everyone knew was false, really was unprecedented.

And I think we're gonna be looking more of that in the future.

- But Sussmann was acquitted, but that was in DC, right.

And by the way, I saw like four of those folks either contributed or supported Hillary.

- Right.

Three were Hillary, right.

Three were Clinton donors.

One of 'em's daughter played Little League with Sussmann's daughter, so.

But I think the important thing.

- [Marc Rotterman] DC's incestuous.

- Yeah, really the important thing is, will be Durham's next prosecution in the fall, but really the narrative that he will lay out, that will go with the Mueller report to let us know the full story.

- Okay, let's go to the Lightning Round, Mitch.

Who's up and who's down this week?

- Who's up?

Potentially North Carolina taxpayers.

We've already alluded to the fact that Senate Democrats are talking about this $200 rebate, they are tying it to the gas tax, although it would actually use some of the surplus money rather than gas tax funds.

Republicans have responded that perhaps it oughta be a little bit more broad based and long lasting than something that might look like a gimmick.

But hey, if taxpayers are gonna benefit or people are talking about that, they might be up.

Down?

North Carolina public school students.

According to their teachers, in the latest North Carolina teacher working condition survey, three outta four of them say that their students have fallen behind academically.

And they have concerns about them socially, emotionally and medically, too - Vickie.

- We'll continuing with the theme in the Senate this week of I think sex, drugs and rock and roll.

The people who are up is a happy hour.

So Tim Moffitt and the Houses actually asked for that to be given to cities and due ordinances.

Something that's been outlawed since the 1980s, here in North Carolina.

Down again, the alcohol theme is running thick today.

Private clubs for alcohol sales.

So we've seen these upsurgence of these things called speakeasies now.

They're just trendy bars.

And so they're saying that they should not be able to or have to require private information given to them so somebody can go in and get a drink.

- Jay.

- Well, who's up.

I think Senator Sawyer would agree with me, I mean, Senator Bill Rabon, who passed the medical cannabis legislation, it was called the Compassionate Care Act.

I can't actually think of a more compassionate individual to shepherd a bill that has an amazing amount of respect on both sides of the aisle.

And one of our colleagues called it a best practice in the way that he gathered input from stakeholders for that bill.

Who's down?

Same as Mitch, North Carolina students.

I mean, not only have they fallen behind academically during the pandemic, but their social/emotional health needs are greater than they were in the pandemic.

And I hope that's something that we can continue to focus on based on the teacher survey you talked about.

- How does the medical marijuana bill do in House?

- I think that it's going to be interesting to see, it's a major piece of legislation.

Clearly, Senator Rabon is highly respected in both chambers and it's an issue that people need to give some very, very, very serious consideration to.

- Okay, who's up, who's down this week, my friend?

- Who's up?

Johnny Depp, AKA Jack Sparrow.

He won his lawsuit against former wife, Amber Heard.

The jury found that both of them were liable.

- [Marc Rotterman] Good soap opera TV, I'll tell ya.

- Oh, both of 'em were liable for defamation.

However, they awarded Depp 15 million and Heard only 2 million.

So just like the movies, millions of people watched the trial and in the end, the pirate came away with the loot.

[all laughing] - Who's down is consumer confidence.

The Conference Board's index this week showed a continuing downward trend that began last year.

Very much in line with the recent University of Michigan's Index of Consumer Sentiment, which hit a 10-year low in May.

- Mitch, headline next week, my friend.

- North Carolina's popular Opportunity Scholarship Program returns to courts going to the court of appeals.

- Headline next week.

- The North Carolina House kills all bills that the Senate sent to them.

[all laughing] - [Senator Sawyer] And then the governor will take care of the big parents bill of rights.

- Headline next week, Jim.

- I'm gonna be trying to be optimistic based on our first topic, a bipartisan group of US Senators including Thom Tillis, rollout bipartisan gun reform.

- Headline next week.

- We'll do it, Jim.

- [Marc Rotterman] Quickly.

- Gas prices keep heading up, while all inventories are heading down.

- Okay, that's it for us.

Thanks for watching.

Great job, team.

Hope to see you next week on "Front Row".

Have a great weekend.

[tense music] - [Announcer] Major funding for "Front Row" is provided by Robert L Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen Foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities.

And by.

Funding for the Lightning Round provided by.

Boddie-Noell Foundation, NC Realtors, Mary Louise and John Burress, Rifenburg Construction and Helen Laughery.

A complete list of funders can be found at PBSnc.org/front row.

[dramatic music] ♪