WELCOME BACK OUR GUEST THIS WEEK IS RICHARD CZUBA.

THE LEAD STORY DEMOCRATS PUSHING FOR THE POLICE REFORM ON THE PANEL WE HAVE NANCY KAFFER, ZACHARY GORCHOW AND RICK PLUTA.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT, "OFF THE RECORD".

PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING BUSINESS LEADERS FOR MICHIGAN HAS A PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN TOP TEN STATES IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY.

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AND NOW THIS ADDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD"-OF "OFF THE RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH WELCOME BACK IN THE GREAT PANEL IN THE GREAT GUESTS AND INTERESTING STORIES TO KICK AROUND AS WE ARE TAPING IN STUDIO C. LET'S START WITH THE DEMOCRATS HOUSE DEMOCRATS AND SENATE DEMOCRATS ARE PUSHING POLICE REFORM AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE PAST.

>> IN NO WAY SHORT SHAPE OR FORM AM I SAYING POLICE OFFICERS ARE BAD THERE ARE A FEW BAD APPLES.

>> NO REPUBLICAN SUPPORT IN THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY SOUNDS LIKE A RECIPE FOR THAT WITHERING ON THE VINE.

>> THE WEEK OF GEORGE FLOYD, THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS HAVE INTRODUCED 16 BILL PACKAGE WHICH WOULD IN PART IN CHOKE HOLDS NO NETWORKS, ORDER THE POLICE TO USE BY THE CAMERAS AND IMPROVEMENTS IN PERMIT CITIZENS TO SUE THOSE WHO USE EXCESSIVE FORCE WHICH HAS THIS STATISTIC.

>> 1,127 PEOPLE WERE KILLED-LAST YEAR BY POLICE.

ONLY 16 OFFICERS WERE EVER CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

THAT IS 1%.

>> ALSO ATTENDING THE NEWS CONFERENCES WERE MS. TAYLOR THE RELATIVES WHO MAKE THESE CHANGES.

>> WE ASKED THEM TO CONSIDER ONLY OTHERS IN THIS COUNTRY BLACK AND BROWN WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO GO BACK TO NORMAL.

AFTER THEIR LOVED ONE HAS HAD THEIR LIFE CUT SHORT TO POLICE BRUTALITY AND EXCESSIVE USE OF A FORCED TACTICS WHICH ARE OUTDATED.

BECAUSE NORMAL DOES NOT EXIST FOR THEM ANYMORE.

>> BUT THE REPUBLICAN CHAIR OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE COUNTERS CHOKE HOLDS ARE NOT TAUGHT IN MICHIGAN AND THEY DISCOURAGE OTHERS FROM GETTING INTO THE BUSINESS THE REPRESENTATIVE FULLY CALLS THE PACKAGE IN OVERREACTION TO NATIONAL EVENTS.

>> WHEN ONE OR TWO OR THREE BAD INCIDENCES SORT OF QUOTE END QUOTE TO FIND LAW ENFORCEMENT TO A STATE AUDIENCE THAT I THINK WE HAVE REALLY LOST PERSPECTIVE.

AND I WILL ALWAYS SAY MAKING LEGISLATION MAKING SNAP LEGISLATION BASED ON A COUPLE OF BAD INCIDENCES IS BAD IDEA.

>> YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS POLICE BRUTALITY PROBLEM IN MICHIGAN?

>> I AGREE THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM IN MICHIGAN.

>> LOOK AT THESE HEADLINES THEY DID NOT HAVE BEEN IN MICHIGAN THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE ISOLATED INCIDENCES AND WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING WE NEED TO PROTECT IN OUR STATE.

>> THE REPUBLICAN SAYS THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS LIKE SOME ELEMENTS OF THE PACKAGE BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.

SO WITH THIS BIPARTISAN VOTE ON ALL 16 BILLS IS NOT APPARENT TODAY.

>> NANCY WHERE ARE WE ON THE STUFF THE DEMOCRATS CLAIMED THERE IS A POPULAR SUPPORT FOR BEING IN CHOKE HOLDS ON THE ELECTORATE.

MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THE RANKS OF THE LEGISLATURE, THIS IS NOT A DONE DEAL IS THAT RIGHT.

>> YES I THINK THERE IS POPULAR SUPPORT FOR THE STUFF AND I THINK FURTHERMORE THAT SOME OF THOSE FOLKS OPPOSING THIS REFORM MEASURES TO SHOULD TALK TO COPS I SPENT A WHILE TALKING TO POLICE EXECUTIVES FOR AN EDITORIAL THAT WE DID WE ARE DOING A YEAR-LONG SERIES WITH THIS AND ONE OF THOSE POLICE PEOPLE I TALKED TO ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THINGS ARE FINE.

THEY ALL FEEL LIKE THEY SHY AWAY FROM USING THE WORD REFORM THEY LIKE TO SAY POLICE IMPROVEMENT BUT THEY WANT BETTER TRAINING, THEY WENT TO DO A BETTER JOB AND HAVE A BETTER RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY.

SO I DON'T KNOW, IT DOES NOT SEEM LIKE THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE ORGANIZATION IS BEING BLANKETED TO THESE MEASURES.

>> WELL, YOU HAVE TWO VERY DIFFERENT APPROACHES HAPPENING IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE RIGHT NOW.

IN THE SENATE, THERE WAS A BIPARTISAN, BUT NOT NEARLY AS FAR-REACHING PACKAGE AS WAS INTRODUCED AND WAS THE SUBJECT OF A HEARING THIS WEEK.

THIS PACKAGE, WHICH THE HOUSE HAS INTRODUCED WITH ONLY DEMOCRAT, YOU HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT MEMBERSHIP WITH HOUSE AND REPUBLICAN CAUCUSES THERE IS A NUMBER OF FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS WHICH INCLUDES THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, IF YOU SERVE IN THE HOUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT IN THE SENATE.

AND, REPRESENTATIVE, WHETHER YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THIS APPROACH IS PROBABLY RIGHT THAT IF YOU SUBJECT THIS VOLATILE IF YOU INTRODUCE LEGISLATION THAT HAS NO REPUBLICAN SUPPORT AND AIM REPUBLICAN CHAMBER IT IS IN A LOT OF TROUBLE WHERE THAT PACKAGE IN THE SENATE I BELIEVE STANDS A GOOD CHANCE OF COMING OUT OF THE SENATE WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE SAFETY CHAIR.

A NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE THINGS LIKE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY PIECE.

IN ADDRESSING THAT.

THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WITH THE HOUSEPLANT HAS IN THE SENATE HAS.

>> THAT IS A GOOD POINT AND STICKY FOR THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY IS IT NOT.

>> THAT IS A HUGE DEAL IN WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ON THE HOUSE SIDE, I THINK IS PEOPLE CREATING NEGOTIATING POSITIONS THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO MOVE FROM.

THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MANY RESPECTS FEELS LIKE IT INTEGRITY IS BEING IN CONTACT AND THERE ARE THINGS LAW ENFORCEMENT IS WILLING TO DO BUT THEY SAY THEY HAVE LINES THEY ARE NOT CROSSING AND OBVIOUSLY MAKING OFFICERS SUSCEPTIBLE TO LAWSUITS WOULD BE JUST A HUGE BLOCADE IN TERMS OF GETTING ALL OF THIS DONE.

BUT ESPECIALLY ON THE HOUSE SIDE WE SEE MORE STUDYING AND NEGOTIATING THEN THE EFFORT WE ARE SEEING ON THE SENATE SIDE.

>> ON THE LIKE SIDE OF CAR INSURANCE LOTS OF NEGOTIATION IS GOING ON LOTS OF COMPLAINTS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE LACK OF COVERAGE IN WHAT IMPACT IT COULD HAVE ON THE QUALITY OF THEIR LIFE.

>> IS SEEMS LIKE STILLY FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD THE END AND IT IS SUPPORTED BY BOTH PARTIES AND IT HAS THIS THING AND IF THAT WILL CUT THE RATES FOR AT-HOME CARE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CATASTROPHICALLY INJURED IN CAR ACCIDENTS BY 45% WHICH OF FOLKS THAT PROVIDE THAT IN-HOME CARE SAY IS UNSUSTAINABLE AND THAT IS COMMON SENSE LIKE IF YOU CUT ANY BUSINESSES OUT.

THEY HAVE A HARD TIME THINKING THIS.

THERE IS A BILL THAT WOULD FIX THIS AND GRANDFATHER IN OPERATIONS IN THERE ARE FACING A DEADLINE AND A LOT OF CARE PROVIDER ARE WARNING THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO SHUT DOWN BUT, TICKTOCK TIME IS RUNNING OUT IF THEY WENT TO GET THIS DONE.

>> TICKTOCK IS RIGHT IS THIS NOT A TICKING TIME BOMB FOR THOSE OTHER THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET BACK HERE THAT THEY WANT?

>> OF COURSE IT IS, BUT, TO BE EXPECTED, BECAUSE, WE ARE CHANGING THE ENTIRE PLATFORM THAT OUR INSURANCE AT LEAST WHEN IT COMES TO CATASTROPHIC COVERAGE IS BUILT ON.

AND SO CLEARLY, THERE ARE GOING TO BE PROBLEMS AND THE ISSUE IS LIKE THE REST OF THE INSURANCE SYSTEM IT IS VERY COMPLEX AND SO, COMING UP WITH A FIX IS, IT MAY TAKE LONGER THAN IT TAKES TO GET TO JULY 1st, WHAT I AM LOOKING TO SEE IS WHAT KIND OF STOPGAP WE MAY SEE CREATED IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THAT.

>> THE BILL IS COMING DUE ON THE STATUTE KNOWING THAT IT WAS PASSED IN THE SPRING OF 2019 AND SIGNED INTO LAW.

ON THE DECK OF THE GRAND HOTEL, THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP WAS VERY BUSY FOCUSING ON THAT RATE REDUCTION THAT THIS WAS GOING TO MEAN FOR THE MOTORING PUBLIC BUT EVERYONE KNEW, NONE OF THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS SHOULD ATTEMPT TO ACT SURPRISED BY WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW EVERYONE KNEW THE SCHEDULE WAS GOING TO HIT LIKE A SACK OF BRICKS AND IT HAS BEEN FINALLY TWO YEARS LATER AND KNOW THAT BILL IS COMING DUE, THE GOVERNOR SEEMS PRETTY UNCOMFORTABLE AND HE ACTUALLY ALREADY PUT A NATURAL FINGER IN THE CONSTITUENCY BY SIGNING BY SIGNING THIS AND THAT IS IN THE FIRST PLACE IN THE WERE ABLE TO GET THE POSITIVE OF THE PRODUCING RATES WHICH THERE IS A CLAMOR FOR IN THE PUBLIC AND KNEW SHE IS SAYING THAT I AM CONCERNED I UNDERSTAND IT IS A SCARY MOMENT FOR PEOPLE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, I THINK CERTAINLY, THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER SEEMS DISINTERESTED IN ADDRESSING THIS AND HE WANTS TO SEE IF THIS TAKES EFFECT.

THE REPUBLICANS, THEY ARE FORCING A LOT OF SKEPTICISM THAT THESE RAIN TRAUMA CLINICS, SEVERE INJURY CLINICSARE ACTUALLY GOING TO SHUT THEM THAT IS WHAT THESE CLINICS HAVE THREATENED FOR A LONG TIME IN THEY DO HAVE TO GIVE A 30 DAY NOTICE THAT THEY WILL SHUT DOWN THE FIRST ONE OF THOSE DID OCCUR YESTERDAY FOR A RAIN INJURY CLINIC IN COLDWATER I BELIEVE.

BUT UNLESS AND UNTIL THERE IS A RASH OF ANNOUNCEMENTS THAT THERE WILL BE A BRIEF ENCLOSURE, I THINK, IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE THAT TYPE OF A CRISIS TO FORCE THE LEGISLATURE TO DO SOMETHING.

>> THE INTERESTING THING HERE IS THE STRATEGY OF LET'S WAIT AND SEE WHAT COULD HAPPEN IS A RELEVANT DEVICE THAT PRODUCES NATIONAL HEADLINES THAT PUTS THAT LEGISLATION IN THE STATE NOT ONLY ON THE FRONT PAGE OF WHERE THEY WANT TO BE.

>> EXACTLY, I THINK THAT THIS IS AN INTERESTING CAUTIONARY TALE ABOUT THE SPECTER OF FRAUD IN THIS REIMBURSEMENT RATE WAS, AS PART OF THE REFORM PACKAGE BECAUSE THERE WAS THIS BELIEF THAT THERE WAS ALL THIS FRAUD AND OVERBILLING AND THE CATASTROPHIC CARE SYSTEM AND WE HAVE ALL CARE COVERED POLITICS LONG ENOUGH THAT WHEN SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT HOW THEY WILL SAVE MONEY BY ELIMINATING WASTE AND FROM WORK THAT FRAUD YOU SHOULD ROLL YOUR EYES BECAUSE IT IS AMAZING TO SET UP AND SAY YOU WILL ATTACK BUT HOW DOES THAT REALLY PLAY OUT AND I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE IS THAT IN THIS SYSTEM, IT IS A CARE CENTER WHICH STARTS TO CLOSE AND THEY SAY THE QUALITY OF CARE OR THE AVERAGE DRAMATICALLY FALLS OFF HOW THAT ALL PLAYS OUT, SHE WILL LET US KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT FRAUD IN THE SYSTEM WASN'T THE BOGEYMAN THAT IT WAS SET UP TO BE IN THIS REFORM CONVERSATION.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I DO NOT WANT TO OVERSTATE THIS, BUT, THE SIGNING, THE BILL SIGNING WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SET UP FOR THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEE THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE ESPECIALLY REPUBLICANS AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE FACING THIS WALL SHOWS HOW INEFFECTIVE THAT PARTICULAR TACTIC WAS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN DEADLOCK AFTER DEADLOCK AND HERE, THERE ARE REAL IN THE IMMEDIATE STAKES AND THERE IS NO EFFECTIVE DISCUSSIONS FOR THIS.

>> AND ANOTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT THEY REALLY WANTED THIS REFORM AND THEY CAMPAIGNED ON THE IDEA OF THE INSURANCE TO BE MORE AFFORDABLE AUTO INSURANCE RATES.

WE PAY THE HIGHEST IN THE UNIVERSE AND I HAVE SEEN RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THIS HAS DROPPED IN SOME PLACES BUT THEY DO NOT THINK WE HAVE ANY REAL CLARITY ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY DROPPED MEANINGFULLY IN THE ZIP CODES AND SO, IF WE HAVE TRADED ALL OF THIS CARE COMPLICATED THIS CARE SYSTEM WHICH WAS THE FINEST IN THE NATION, AND THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON WHETHER WE HAVE MEANINGFUL GREAT REFORMS FOR THOSE WHO NEEDED IT MOST.

>> THIS IS A HUGE ADMISSION AND CONCESSION THIS WEEK ON A DIFFERENT SUBJECT WITH THE GOVERNOR SITTING NEXT TO HIM SAYING THAT THE STATUTE FAILED TO GET RID OF TERRITORIAL RATING WHICH IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE LIKE NANCY WHO LIVE IN DETROIT ARE PAYING AN ABSURD CHARGE FOR THEIR AUTO INSURANCE.

AND I WAS JUST SMACKED HEARING HIM ADMIT THIS IN LARGE PART MOST OF THE DEMOCRATIC RATIONALE FOR SUPPORTING THIS PACKAGE OF THE GOVERNOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SPENT WEEKS BREAKING ON THEIR WE FINALLY GOT READY RID OF THIS BUT EVERYBODY KNEW THIS AT THE TIME, THEY GOT RID OF THIS BY ZIP CODE BUT THEY ALLOWED IT BY TERRITORY.

AND SO THERE IS THIS CHASM AND WHAT THEY ARE PAYING FOR THEIR INSURANCE VERSUS EVERYONE ELSE AND WIDE, YOU COULD HEAR, A PENNY FOR THE GOVERNOR'S THOUGHTS AS THE MAYOR WAS SAYING THIS.

>> IN THEY HAVE ELIMINATED INSURANCE RATES BY CREDIT SCORES SO THEY WERE ABLE TO USE A CREDIT REPORT SO TELL ME YOUR CREDIT REPORT DOES NOT HAVE A CREDIT SCORE ON IT?

IN CONGRESS WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE LEGISLATION BROTHER PROPOSED LEGISLATION WHICH WOULD SET CAR INSURANCE RATES.

THERE IS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN YOUR CREDIT SCORE AND LIKELIHOOD OF HAVING A CAR CRASH THE CORRELATION IS BETWEEN THE -UNDERSCORE AND THE LIKELINESS OF MAKING A CLAIM, SO THE PENALTY FOR POOR PEOPLE IS REALLY OUTRAGEOUS.

AND THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED AND UNTIL THAT IS ADDRESSED I DO NOT THINK THERE IS ANY MEANINGFUL DECREASE FOR PEOPLE IN DETROIT.

LET'S BE HONEST, THE INSURANCE COMPANY IS GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY CAN TO KEEP THOSE RETIRING.

THERE IS NO REALISTIC POLICE COMING FOR THAT IN THERE NEVER WAS.

>> BEFORE WE CALL IN THE GUEST LET ME TALK ABOUT ONE OTHERS THAT THE 70% OF THE PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN HAVE KEPT WHAT WAS CALLED THE CADILLAC COVERAGE WHICH IS THE UNRESTRICTED UNLIMITED BENEFITS IF YOU ARE IN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT WHICH MEANS WE HAVE ANOTHER GAP BETWEEN HAVE AND HAVE-NOTS IN THOSE THEY COULD AFFORD THAT RICH COVERAGE AND THOSE THAT DON'T, DON'T AND THEY WILL BE IN DEEPER TROUBLE HEALTHWISE AS A RESULT OF THAT.

>> HOW MANY OF THEM LIVE IN URBAN AREAS.

>> AND NOW WHO TALKS ABOUT NUMBERS ALL THE TIME AND RICHARD, ARE YOU THERE, HOW ARE YOU DOING NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK ON THE PROGRAM.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE 8% DROP IN SUPPORT OF FAVORABILITY THAT THE GOVERNMENT GOVERNOR'S TRUCK GOT FATALE?

>> WE NEED TO PUT THE NUMBER INTO SOME PERSPECTIVE.

DURING COVID THERE WAS A RALLY AROUND THE FLAG MOMENT WHICH IS A LOT OF MICHIGANDERS LIKED WHAT HE WAS DOING.

BECAUSE HE WAS IN A CRISIS IN SHE WAS FROM 59% OR 50 OR 59% APPROVAL AND THAT IS UNSUSTAINABLE TERRITORY FOR THE MICHIGAN GOVERNOR, WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT NUMBER VERY OFTEN FOR MICHIGAN GOVERNORS AND SHE HAS FALLEN BACK NOW AT 50.

TO PUT THAT INTO SOME PERSPECTIVE IN THE EIGHT YEARS WE PULLED ON HER THAT WAS IS HIGH POINT.

SO THE QUESTION IS WHETHER WHERE DID SHE GO FROM HERE?

THE VOTERS ARE MOVING ON FROM COVID AND I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO JUDGE THE GOVERNOR BY HOW SHE MOVES ON IN THE NEXT YEAR IN THE HALF.

AS I LIKE TO SAY, THEY JUDGE YOU ON YOUR NEXT CRISIS.

>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THAT CAN'T THOUGHT THAT WAS CLOSE WITHOUT THOSE NUMBERS WOULD BE LOWER GIVEN ALL OF THE ATTACKS THAT SHE HAS TAKEN AND INCOMING FIRE FROM THE REPUBLICANS ON THE PLANE THING IN THE LAND SHARK STUFF WAS NOT RELEVANT IN THOSE NUMBERS?

>> I THINK IT WAS.

WE DO NOT KNOW THE EXTENT BUT THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN SELF-INFLICTED WOUND BECAUSE YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF AND IN BOTH OF THESE IT IS SELF SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS.

>> HOW ABOUT YOU.

>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE GOVERNOR APPROVAL RATING LAST YEAR WAS OVERRATED BY THE POSTERS.

I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT JUST ABOUT ALL OF THE PUBLIC POLLS HAVE JOE BIDEN WITHIN THE STATE BY 8-10 POINTS AND THEN JOHN JAMES BY 8-10 POINTS, THE SAME SURVEYS ALSO HAD GRETCHEN WHITMER AT ABOUT 58-60% APPROVAL RATING.

OBVIOUSLY HE ENDED UP WINNING BY SEVEN POINTS LESS THAN WHAT THE AVERAGE WAS PETERS BY EIGHT OR NINE POINTS.

HIS POLLING AVERAGE.

IS THIS JUST A CASE OF THESE, MAYBE THIS IS NOW REALITY IS CATCHING UP RIGHT HERE.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT REALITY IS CATCHING UP IN THAT THE RALLY AROUND THE FLAG MOMENT IS GONE FOR THE GOVERNORS.

THEY KNOW HOW TO GOVERN WITHOUT THIS CRISIS WHICH HELPED TO PROP UP THE NUMBERS I THINK IF IT WAS NOT JUST GOVERNOR WHITMER, IT WAS GOVERNORS ACROSS THE MIDWEST WHO HAVE SEEN BOUNCES IN THEIR NUMBERS BASED ON HOW THEY WERE HANDLING COVID.

IN TERMS OF, WHERE THE NUMBERS WERE OVERSTATED LET'S NOT CONFUSE THE LIKELY VOTER SURVEYS WITH REGISTERED VOTER SURVEYS.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW WITH REGISTERED VOTER SURVEYS WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN TO THAT.WILL BE OUR SCREENING PEOPLE TO SEE IF THEY ARE GOING TO VOTE IN THE 2022 ELECTION JUST YET.

SO, THOSE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF US SURVEYS SHIFT AND IT WAS A LITTLE BIT BUT THAT DOES NOT EXPLAIN THE FULL DIFFERENCE.

>> NANCY.

>> COULD I ASK ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE GOVERNOR'S APPROVAL RATING.

>> IT IS A FREE COUNTRY GO FOR IT.

>> I THOUGHT AND WE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT, RICHARD, THE MOST FASCINATING THING IN THERE TO ME IS WHEN YOU PULL THEM WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THE REFORM THEY HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT THE VARIOUS ELECTIONS BEING PROPOSED, 70% OF THEM SHOULD 30% OF PEOPLE HAVE STRONG OPINIONS BECAUSE 70% OF PEOPLE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA THAT ANY OF THIS WAS EVEN HAPPENING.

>> THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF VOTERS DO NOT CARE HOW THE SAUSAGE GETS ME TO JUST WANT TO SEE IT ON THE SHELF AND WHEN IT COMES TO THE VOTER REFORM BILLS MOVING THROUGH LANSING RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE NOT REALLY PAYING ATTENTION.

BUT WHAT HE TESTED NINE DIFFERENT PROPOSALS WHOM WERE IN THERE.

AND, THEY ARE NOT OPPOSED TO THEM.

THERE IS A BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS.

IN THE TOP OF THE LIST IS THIS PROPOSAL THAT IF YOU VOTE IN PERSON THAT YOU NEED TO PRESENT YOUR IDEAS.

GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDEAS AND WE FOUND OUT 79% SUPPORT THAT AND I THINK THAT THE VOTER SUPPORT IT BECAUSE THEY DO AT ALL.

WHEN THEY GO IN, THEY DO IT, BUT, THAT SUPPORT DRASTICALLY DROPS ON SENDING IN YOUR DRIVER'S DRIVERS LICENSE FOR ABSENTEES VOTERS AND, IN OTHERS JUST BOMBED.

SO IF THERE IS A PROPOSAL THAT MOVES FORWARD FOR REPUBLICANS, THEY ABSOLUTELY NEED THAT PRESENT IT TO VOTE IN PERSON FOR THAT PROPOSAL OTHERWISE, ANY PROPOSAL IS ON THE GROUND.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO JUMP IN ON THAT AND I DON'T THAT THIS IS KIND OF NUANCE SO MAYBE YOU DIDN'T FIGURE INTO YOUR QUESTIONING BUT ONE OF YOUR ARGUMENTS ABOUT THIS IT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT VOTER IT LAWS, VOTING ON LIKE DRIVING IS A RIGHT.

NOT A PRIVILEGE AND WAS THERE ANY DIVING INTO THAT AS OF THE VOTER IT LAWS.

>> NO, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT, WE WANTED TO ASK, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS, YOU ARE CORRECT THAT IS A NUANCE.

AND IT IS AN INTERESTING NUANCE BUT THE VOTERS DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP WITH THIS.

THEY REALLY JUST A THINK I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS, THIS IS PERFECTLY NATURAL TO ME.

AND, THIS IS OKAY.

>> BUT DO THE REPUBLICANS RUN THE RISK OF GOING TOO FAR TO HOLD BACK THE PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO BOTH THE ABSENTEE STUFF THAT IS GOING ON IN THE IS THERE A TIPPING.WHERE THEY SAID THIS IS NOW AFFECTING ME.

>> I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT IS THE CASE SO IF YOU TAKE AWAY THIS SINGLE ISSUE A 79% IDS, MANY OF THESE OTHER ISSUES FALL FLAT.

THEY WILL BE HARD-PRESSED TO GET THE MAJORITY SUPPORT FROM THE VOTERS.

AND WHY PEOPLE ARE MISSING IS THE STRONGEST OPPOSITION TO CHANGING THESE ABSENTEES COMES FROM SENIOR CITIZENS AND THOSE ARE THE VERY VOTERS WHO ARE MOST RELYING ON THESE ABSENTEE BALLOTS AND I FIND IT INTERESTING WE ARE NOT TALKING TO THE SENIOR CITIZENS ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK THE TEACHER SHOULD BE TO THE BALLOTS.

BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT USE IT.

AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE HEAVIEST USERS.

WHERE IS THE GOVERNOR'S MOST VULNERABLE.

IF WE LOOK BACK AT 2018 ELECTIONS, NINE AND A HALF-POINT LANDSLIDE VICTORY, RAN UP NUMBERS IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS, ARE YOU SEEING SIGNS OF THE FOLLOW-UP IN AREAS WHERE THERE WAS STRONG BEFORE HIM GENERALLY WHERE DO YOU THINK SHE IS VULNERABLE WITH WHAT VOTERS?

I THINK WITH INDEPENDENCE, WHEN YOU GET LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS, WE LOOKED AT THE FIRST TIME THIS YEAR THAT WE HAVE LOOKED FOR WHAT THE DYNAMICS LOOK LIKE GOING INTO 2022 AND THEY LOOK EXACTLY LIKE 2018 AND 2020 THE MOTIVATION TO VOTE IS SKY-HIGH IT IS NOT CHANGING.

AND, BOTH SIDES OF THIS HAVE TAKEN THE CORNERS.

SHE IS GOING TO HAVE DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT, THEY ARE ALREADY LINED UP AND REPUBLICANS WILL BE OPPOSED TO IT NO QUESTION.

AWARE OF THESE INDEPENDENTS GOING TO GO AND MICHIGAN ELECTIONS ARE BY THE INDEPENDENTS.

IF THERE IS AN AREA THAT SURPRISES ME, THAT SHE ISN'T PUTTING GREATER FOCUS ON RIGHT NOW IT IS FRANKLY THE ECONOMY.

MICHIGAN IS A JOBS ESTATE WHICH IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTIME SOON.

AND, YOU KNOW I AM SURPRISED NOT TO HEAR MORE TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY COMING FROM THE WHITMER ADMINISTRATION AND I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO GO AFTER HER.

WHAT IS SURPRISING ME IN THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS DRASTICALLY LOWER RIGHT NOW THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE BUT YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW IT FROM THAT CONVERSATION.

>> NANCY.

>> IN YOUR POLE IT IS ALSO CLEAR THAT SHE CONTINUES TO ENJOY STRONG SUPPORT FROM WOMEN AND IN 2020 AND 2018, WOMEN DROVE A LOT OF WHAT HAPPENED ESPECIALLY IN 2020 WHEN, SUBURBAN WOMEN, IN OAKLAND COUNTY, IT REALLY TURNED OUT.

THAT WAS A BIT OF WHAT HAPPENED THERE.

WHAT IS GOING ON THERE I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT YOUR WOMEN AND HOW THAT COULD PLAY OUT.

>> WHAT I AM SEEING RIGHT NOW IS THE POLITICAL DYNAMICS THEY HAVE NOT SHIFTED FROM 2018 OR 2020.

IN ALL OF THOSE DYNAMICS ARE WOMEN STRONGLY BREAKING THROUGH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

I DO NOT SEE THAT CHANGING AT LEAST IN THE SHORT TERM.

I THINK SHE WILL DO WELL WITH THOSE FEMALE VOTERS IT IS PART OF HER SUPPORT BUT FROM A GEOGRAPHIC SCALE, WE TALK A LOT ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TALKING A LOT ABOUT THE PERCEPTION THAT WAS BROUGHT IN THIS ELECTION, AND WHAT NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT IS, THERE WERE 100,000 MORE VOTERS COMING OUT OF OAKLAND COUNTY AND 60,000 COMING OUT OF KENT COUNTY.

AND ANY DEMOCRAT THAT WENT BY 130,000 VOTES IS GOING TO WIN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN WHICH IS QUITE FRANKLY THAT SIMPLE.

REPUBLICANS NEED TO DO BETTER IN THOSE TO COME TO FOR SUBURBAN VOTERS AND THAT IS WHERE I THINK THAT QUESTION OF HOW DO THEY PLAY TO THAT THAT IS REALLY WORTH WATCHING.

>> STAY TUNED WE WILL DO OVERTIME SEGMENT IF YOU'RE GAME FOR THAT AND I KNOW YOU ARE SO THE PANEL COULD TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND THEN GO ONLINE.

FOR MORE OF OUR CONVERSATION.

WE WILL SEE YOU THERE.

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