Governor Polis has another week to sign or veto bills passed during this year's legislative session.

And he has already vetoed up to 12 bills.

That's a record.

But the political conversation is already shifting to what comes next and who comes next.

With two major gubernatorial debates this week and primary ballots hitting the mail on Monday.

The decisions Colorado voters will be making in the coming months will help shape the state's future.

Our insiders are so ready to weigh in.

So let's get started with this week's Colorado Inside Out.

Hi, everyone, I'm Kyle Dyer.

Let me get started by introducing you to this week's insider panel.

We start with Heidi Calhoun, founder and editor of Westword.

Chris work, consultant with Work Media and contributor at iHeart Denver.

Ian Thomas Tafoya community and environmental advocate and former candidate for mayor of Denver.

And Amber McReynolds, one of the country's leading experts on election administration and policy, and the former Director of Elections for the City and County of Denver.

Well, this was a big week for those hoping to become Colorado's next governor with two high profile televised debates.

The Republican candidates shared a stage for the first time, and the evening featured everything from policy discussions to public prayer to a few moments that quickly generated attention well beyond the debate stage.

Now, before the debate, the question was whether Republicans could put forward a winning message and a winning candidate.

After this week, what is your biggest takeaway from where the Republican race for governor stands?

I will start with you, Patti.

Victor Marx does not want us to be mean.

He.

When he finally showed up for a debate, it was fascinating to watch him try to be folksy and accuse both Scott Bottoms and, Barbara Kirk Meyer of being mean, which they were not.

They were very forthright.

But this should be a lesson for everyone in Colorado who is an unaffiliated voter.

And let's remember, that is more than 50% of the registered voters.

You can vote in the primary.

You can choose one party to vote in.

And I think if you want to save the Republican Party from two candidates who basically are obsessed with demons and lie or are anti-Semitic, if you want to have a grown up on the Republican candidate as the Republican candidate, go vote for Barb Kirk Meyer.

Whether you support the Democrats or not, let's get these parties back in order.

Let's get a reasonable Republican candidate so that we can have two active parties, because otherwise, why are we paying for this primary?

Why are more than 50% of the voters not able to nominate their own person?

Go vote.

Yeah.

Here, here.

Patty.

You know, I attended both debates.

And in the GOP, debate, it was very clear that we have an experienced candidate in Barb, Kirk Meyer.

We have an ultra conservative and Scott Bottoms, who started making claims about, Jenna Griswold and Phil Weiser being arrested for sedition somewhere down the road.

And then we have the, quote unquote, dangerous gentleman outsider who really doesn't have a lot on policy.

And I think voters are craving policy changes.

They are craving change in Colorado.

That is meaningful.

Barb Kirk Meyer handled, conversation about the budget masterfully.

We've seen the problems that we've had going in the hole on the budget.

Scott Bottoms got into the weeds on numbers and Kirk Meyer had to correct him.

And Victor Marcus simply said, well, it's very confusing.

To which Barb Kirk Meyer responded, not for me.

So I think that we are going to see some really interesting outcomes in the primary.

I'm kind of hopeful.

Once again, like Patty pointed out, it's up to the unaffiliated voters to save the Republican Party from itself.

It was a very different thing to watch.

What was it like to see in person?

Was there a different vibe in the room?

Yeah, there's definitely a different vibe in the in the room.

I think that, and I highly recommend anybody who's watched a televised debate go to one in person if you can, because you notice things like I noticed, Barb, Kirk Meyer and Scott Bottoms hanging out kind of backstage together in their own little camps.

Victor Marx was in his own personal room.

They were all given personal rooms.

But, there's definitely more of a comfort level for Bottoms and Kirk Meyer running for office.

There's more of a protection factor, I think, on Victor Marks.

Okay.

All right.

Ian, your your thoughts.

Well, having been up there on the stage, when the lights turn on, you know, it's never easy for anybody.

But I left watching that whole thing and thinking, I don't think I want any of these people to lead our state of Colorado, you know?

Yes.

Barb sounds the most, I guess, normal of anybody up there.

But then we're reminded that she was involved in trying to let a county secede from our state of the Union.

Right.

And so, you know, I had forgotten about that altogether, and it really caught me off guard.

But bottoms, with his false information that was being debunked about billions and fraud that were taking place in our state, the amount of Venezuelan gang members that lived in our state, which was clearly false, he was, disclosed on that issue in front of everybody.

I think he vehemently made a huge mistake when he said he would let an anti-Semitic person be in his cabinet as long as they weren't working with Jewish people.

I mean, that was our point.

I think if anything, what's going to be disappointing is if one of these people from the MAGA camp make it through all the way, because the whole conversation between the Democrats and the Republican will be about how your MAGA and aligned with Trump instead of solving the issues of Colorado.

And I will say that both debates seem to be missing a lot of details.

I actually thought the secession conversation was interesting because it kind of clarified what happened, because that was a while ago in both counties.

So that what I got to say about that secession thing, that is that's the worst thing that Barb Kirk Meyer can be accused of.

Let's vote for.

I mean, with all the crazy stuff that's out there that was relatively mild.

Okay.

And what, you're not reading Irish, right?

Yeah.

I Amber oh well, I want to pick up on a couple of things that Patty said.

I mean, the, the the largest share of the electorate now in Colorado, it's actually 52%, almost 53% unaffiliated.

That's been going for a long time.

When you break that down, about 35% lean Dem, 28% lean GOP and 35% are undecided.

That's the kind of latest look at that group of the electorate.

And in the last few general elections, they have made up the majority of vote share.

So come November, they are the biggest voting bloc of of of all.

So, you know, I think when you break that down, unaffiliated are going to be having a choice in front of them.

The debates for me, I think it's tough when you're a voter, and I think it'd be interesting to get data on how many people see these debates, because my guess is it's not that many.

They might see clips of it and what have you.

But I think the most important thing voters can do between now and Election Day is do their homework.

The beauty of our election model in the state is that you get your ballot at home, and you have lots of time to make these really important decisions and make these really important choices.

And, you know, I would encourage all voters to do that, especially now that these debates have happened and there's a lot more information out there.

Okay.

So the two Democratic candidates squared off again Thursday night last night.

Unlike the Republicans, these two candidates have debated each other repeatedly this campaign season.

And so they know each others arguments well.

And because Colorado has recently been voting Democratic, it's likely that, the primary between Senator Michael Bennet and Attorney General Phil Weiser will decide, who will, potentially be the next governor.

We'll see.

We'll see.

Chris, again, you mentioned you were at do you for this debate as well.

How do you compare the two?

How what was your takeaway from the Democrats?

Well, just to begin with, different crowd, really different crowd.

There were a lot more students at the Democratic, debate, and there was more enthusiasm for the the candidates than there were at the Republican debate.

They were actually filling in student seats at the Republican debate.

I thought the moderators, you know, their questions were somewhat softer for these candidates.

And I say that with the caveat that these two candidates have less of the controversial baggage that two of the Republican candidates have.

I thought they were tougher on Bennet than they were wiser.

They they questioned him about the fact that he hasn't named who he will appoint as his successor.

We did find out a new clue, though.

He will be under 50 years old and it is not Jared Polis.

So we know that so far.

So you can guess as to who that will be.

They, they kind of nailed him on the the approving of the Trump appointments.

That and and and Bennet had a great answer.

He said, look, it comes down to resources, access to resources for the state of Colorado, which is why he went along with these appointments.

Overall, I felt Bennet came off as more authentic than Phil Wise or Phil Wise, or was very scripted, very still, like a statue.

He's more disciplined, definitely.

Whereas Bennet was just kind of free flowing.

He fidgets a little bit, whatnot.

I think overall, this this primary is going to come down to personality, not policy.

They're very much alike in policy.

Ian.

when we're talking about the affordability crisis of Colorado, there continues to be talking about civil positions as jobs that exist in society that we need to make sure there's housing for nurses, firefighters, teachers.

What about teachers assistants and bus drivers and people who work at the Dollar Tree and janitors and the people who are on the verge of ending up homeless?

And that is one of the biggest issues that's being faced by not just our city, Colorado Springs.

It's in rural communities with homelessness.

I don't feel like any of that was really addressed.

Medicaid and education seemed to be skipped over, even though those are the biggest pieces of our budget that need to be taken care of.

You know, when they got to the question about consumer protections and environmental protections, and I thought to myself, they just agreed with the premise of that question, as though we can't have strong environmental and consumer protections and still have a growing oil and gas industry, which has happened.

Right.

And so we're buying into this concept that we've talked about here about are these studies that talk about how many businesses that are leaving or data centers, and how many jobs will be there at the end?

I was lost with that.

And I think that they're losing the middle because these are hard core democratic issues.

And there's also a segment of people who have completely lost track with the Trump and are looking for somewhere to go, who believe in environmental protections, who believe that corporations shouldn't get bailouts and that are similar on both sides of the spectrum.

So I'll say about homeowners insurance came up and there's a lot of conversation about homeowners, not enough about renters, no conversation about what the causes which is severe weather, hail and fire.

These are there's no answers to those questions that were given.

So in my belief, I feel like we need to have more of these TV debates because they've done, you know, 100 of these around the state, which is good to get into the communities and press flash.

We need TV debates to really get deeper on the issues for everyone to see, because this is important.

This is going to be for almost a decade.

And you need a moderate that and ask all that.

That was good.

Yeah.

Amber.

you know, I think it'd be great, to see more both on the dem side, in the Republican side, not just the platitudes and the concepts and the kind of vision, but the the real examples that meet people where they are and what what voters can look at and say, okay, that actually applies to me, because a lot of a lot of the discussions and a lot of the policy questions, you listen to them talk and they're all like they're very detailed.

And on the dem side, both of these candidates have tremendous experience in politics and government at all levels of government.

But when you break it down, for an everyday voter who isn't as aware of all these different intricate things, they ultimately care about what is impacting them in their family daily.

And so being able to connect to the what happens in these debates and those discussions to the everyday voter is something that I still feel like there's like this huge disconnect and and we need to either have more of these debates or figure out a way to better connect these two things.

Yeah.

To give them.

Yeah.

Patti, your thoughts on that debate?

Well, the Republican debate looks like an episode of Saturday Night Live, and you could cast it very easily.

It just was so off the rails.

The Democrats looked much more like a senior in high school debate debate.

And with two popular but wonky, senior boys.

And they it's all stuff we've heard before, pretty much from them.

And after the debate, I can tell you enduring it.

You kept getting press release, press release saying I won, I'm the bigger fighter, and they are getting a little excessive in their fighting against each other because, as Chris said, there's not all that much difference with them when you talk about policies.

And I think in some ways what it'll come down to is Bennett has been out around the state a lot for ten, 15 years.

So and when he is out and talking to people, he is very casual.

He's very personable.

And that could pay off because we have to remember we're hearing urban questions.

We're in an urban area and there are still plenty of voters outside here.

Either one is going to beat whoever is the Republican candidate, I think.

But you want to have real discussions in the next few months, and we're not going to get them if Victor Barks is the Republican candidate.

Okay, so with all that you've shared and we've discussed, I'm going to put you on the spot and go through each of you.

Give me your predictions on each side.

Who's going to make it through the primary?

Who are the two people we are going to see in November?

Patty, first with you, I think Bennett will squeak through, and I think Kirk Meyer will squeak through if everyone watching this show vote in the Republican primary.

Okay.

Yeah, I say Bennett, Kirk Meyer.

And I hope it's not just wishful thinking.

Okay, Ian, I'm really torn on both of these because I think the money at play is what people always tell you to look at.

And if you look at the amount of money that both Weezer and Marks have, but then there's outside PACs that are involved with it.

I think they're both a toss up.

I think we're not going to know for the next two months, which is why I want more TV debates.

Okay, so no prediction from you at this point.

No.

Okay.

Amber.

Well, I'm, I actually I have changed my mind a number of times on this and now I don't know, on either side.

And the one thing on the Democratic side that I would just point out is there's actually a race above the governor's race on the primary, and that's the Senate.

And this is this is kind of overlooked.

But, you know, when there's a Senate race on the ballot, that changes the dynamics I do think that, it is going to be closer on probably on in both than what people have predicted up to this point.

it's going to be interesting to see what unaffiliated voters which ballot they pick because, I think more are going to probably go to the downside.

So I'm okay.

All right.

We'll see.

Patty.

But they just have to vote in one.

Yes, they can vote on both.

All right.

Speaking of elections, let's discuss the early release this week.

A former Mesa County clerk, Tina Peters, after Governor Polis commuted her nine year prison sentence related to a security breach involving election equipment.

Within hours of her release, Peters repeated her allegations of widespread election fraud and said Democrats will cheat in the midterm elections this coming November.

But first up is the primary, which is just 25 days away.

In the timing of her release and starting to talk about election integrity is not surprising and notable.

I want to join the chorus of people who are incredibly disappointed in this action.

We've talked about it so many times here.

I'm actually been surprised by how many people were quick to admonish the governor, and now they're already taking pictures with them again.

And so I think that's the kind of stuff they were talking about on the debate last night, where people don't understand, is it politics and show business, or is it about values and your party?

And so, you know, that that's in relationship to Bennett saying he doesn't know if his children, you know, like either of the parties?

Here's what I'll say.

I think that her coming out and saying what she wanted to say should have been expected.

I think it's exactly what Polis thinks constitutes his free speech.

You know what else is constituted as free speech?

Unlimited corporate spending through PACs that are going to amplify this, to undermine elections across the United States and Colorado is looked to as the gold standard of elections.

And so when we can disrupt and discredit Colorado, it cascades across the United States.

Amber, you have devoted your life to election administration.

How are you and all your colleagues doing this week?

Well, so election officials that are that are and most of them are great at doing their jobs, are not focused on Tina Peters.

They're not what she's saying.

They're they're doing their jobs.

There's a lot of work to do.

Ballots are about to go in the mail.

They have a lot of education to do.

They're testing equipment.

They're staffing and training their election judges.

And this is, by the way, happening all over the country.

Nevada's primary is on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday.

So election officials, as always, are being the professionals that they are, and they're focused on delivering services for the public.

And, you know, I think I for one thing, there needs to be less talk of, of an amplification of, of Tina because, you know, I think in a way, continuing to talk about it just continues to keep it in the forefront of people's minds while the professionals are trying to run their processes and do their work.

You are right.

You are correct, Patty.

I like the line up of people outside the Buena Vista Correctional Facility, where she was held on Monday waiting to see her, and she'd suddenly gotten out very early.

And no one, no one got her.

You know, in that day she went on Steve Bannon show and she's denying elections again, as he said, it's exactly what she said before.

another thing happened this week which was good, which is another notorious election denier, Joe Altman, did not win the Colorado Republican Party chair.

We have to, but he is certainly been a supporter of Tina.

I had interviewed her in jail.

The fact that he didn't make it, although he could be in a Scott Bottoms cabinet, as we learned, as long as he's not near anyone who's Jewish, that is one good sign that there was actually someone who was sane, who was elected as party chair.

I'm assuming he's saying.

But compared to the others, it's it's a good move for the Republicans.

Let's put Tina aside.

Let's get on with the election.

Okay.

And, Chris, I think what's concerning to me is now the talk about she didn't do anything wrong.

Right.

So we hear, Scott Bottoms now wants to, if he's governor, vacate, her conviction, they're appealing to the Supreme Court to wipe her record clean.

That's concerning to me.

But I agree with Amber.

Let's.

I think it's time to just move on.

Coincidentally, the Pikes Peak region just got a huge influx of, Space Force money.

A $4 billion overall plan, $250 million facility that's going to be built in Colorado Springs.

Of course, this is about eight months after Space Force is going to be moved to, Alabama.

But it will make up for the jobs that were lost.

And then some from space forces move.

I asked Congressman Jeff Krank whether the two were related, whether it was, you know, related to Tina Peters release.

He said, no, but I'm curious if, you know, this tension we have felt with President Donald Trump will start to ease now that she is out?

Well, we'll see.

All right.

We're going to move on from this topic then.

Okay.

All right.

Let's talk about voter, shall we?

Primary elections often have a huge influence on who ends up leading our state.

So why aren't more Coloradans engaged?

Amber, you know the ins and the outs.

What is the last election two years ago, primary only like 20 something percent of voters, eligible voters voted.

primary at the end of June is a problematic timeline for a variety of reasons.

I'll just give one example.

College students are done with school mid-May, and they have moved out of all of their housing and they've moved addresses.

They've potentially gone home for the summer.

They've gone on to internships, they've moved ballots have been mailed to their addresses.

So that group in particular, is often left out.

Those ballots will go back undeliverable, usually because they're not there.

The second thing is that our primary system is not designed to meet voters where they are and, and address the fact that more than half of the state has chosen to be unaffiliated.

We still have this major party based primary system.

Minor parties are not involved in this part.

They get to pick their candidates, they go directly to the general ballot, unaffiliated candidates go if they're if they petition on.

And then the major parties get this sort of free advertising campaign on behalf of taxpayers for name ID to get voters to, to vote in that primary.

So I think we have to we have to reform the primary.

It should be a fully open everyone on one ballot.

And one of the ideas I've floated for years is, rather than what California does, which is a fully open kind of jungle primary top two, we would do something similar, but we would use a ranking process so that you could rank multiple candidates in the primary because, you know, you might support multiple people to advance.

So I think we have to explore all these options to improve this process so that the primary matters and that voters voices matter in the primary.

Because the turnout in California is quite large for their jungle primary race, it's pretty large for.

Yeah.

I mean, and they have a very full ballot.

They have a lot of can't because all the candidates on one ballot.

So we could even have a longer ballot.

Patty.

Well, the primary ballot.

Yes.

What?

Amber said it's it is two parties that people feel very much not invited to.

They are not invited to the party.

It's very closed.

And even though because of the actions, what, eight years ago when it was allowed, you could vote in a primary, even if you were unaffiliated, it's people still don't get that message, they don't get that message, and they don't realize it's not just there, right.

But they really should be doing it.

If we're going to ever get these parties to be more connected to people.

But I think right now they just don't feel like it's theirs.

Chris.

Yeah, I agree.

I think overall the electorate is is discouraged.

We've seen the polarization.

We've seen the exclusion of unaffiliated voters potentially from the Republican primary.

There there's a discouragement, a disconnect.

It like Patty was talking about.

And I'm really I would like to encourage people who are not registered to vote or who have sat it out a couple of elections.

Really take it on as your duty to vote.

We need all voices weighing in on these issues.

These candidates.

You know, this November, we're going to see quite a lot of ballot initiatives.

And if you care about something in Colorado that a ballot initiative could impact, you get registered and please vote.

You have an interesting perspective.

Since you did run for office, you know, every vote totally matters.

Sure.

And I've said this on the show before too, that it's crazy to me that we do not advertise as the public about elections.

Like we have all these city buildings we can hang banners on.

We could light up the city for voting like we do for the Broncos.

We don't do that.

There's more money invested for an architect convention coming to put signs on 16th Street Mall than there is about our elections and our civics.

And so I've had a conversation with different clerks about this over the years.

And I think, you know, invest one vote.

It just says vote forever.

Most of the advertising people are getting at this point, it's all negative.

And that turns off people and that turns off, you know, independents who are like, I just want to watch my YouTube video.

I just want to watch my show.

Like, that's me, you know, your grandma if you're going to channel your grandma.

But I'll say that if from a positive perspective, you know, if you can pick up the phone right now and tell three people to vote, send three text messages that makes the difference, right?

And that's what campaigns are trying to get people to do.

And you also don't have to be a citizen and get involved in a campaign.

You could knock doors, you could make phone calls, you could wave signs.

There's a lot of places for all different people on the different journey of being a citizen, and I just want to encourage everybody to do that.

And in local elections, absolutely.

It comes down to a few votes.

And like you heard, I'm uncertain where this is because I picking up the phone and calling people and it seems like if someone might pick up the phone and call three more people, it could make a difference.

Okay.

And it's quite possible that a number of these races might be that close.

Yeah.

To within a very slim margin.

It is quite possible at this point.

Like, you know, you look across the spectrum and it, it absolutely.

We could see some very close races in June.

Okay.

All right.

Let's go around the table now and talk about some of the highs and the lows in this week.

We'll start on the low note and we'll start with Patty.

June 1st was not just the day Tina Peters was released from prison.

It was also the one year anniversary of the anti-Semitic attack in Boulder.

And a student group supporting Palestine talked about the chickens coming home to roost, shades of Ward Churchill essentially celebrating the act.

It was disgraceful.

Okay, this week an article came out in Colorado politics by Marianne Goodland.

Representative Brandi Bradley has been reprimanded by the minority leader in the Republican caucus, for behavior for shouting at people she did take to social media, and she kind of came back very strong, very accusative, very personal attacks, which kind of gave credence to this reprimand.

So we'll see how that plays out.

Okay.

In Denver, City Councilwoman Sarah Purdy announced on Monday that due to health and illness, that she's stepping down.

Of course I want to send my well-wishes to her.

I think there are a lot of people in Denver who are wondering what comes next in a special election.

That's atypical, and I feel like these atypical elections and filling in spots happens a lot in Colorado.

Okay.

I think I actually saw some kind of national polling and research that's been done recently on voters and kind of the discouragement they feel about politics and the divisiveness.

So I would say that, you know, for me at least, that that was definitely a low this week.

Okay.

Now something good, Patty.

National Trails Day is tomorrow.

Get out and enjoy the trails while we still have them.

And if you want to head to the east, it's also Colorado Prairie Day, thanks to Governor Polis, and Lincoln County is having a whole big celebration.

Okay, fun.

I got to the California primary.

You know, Amber and I have been talking about jungle primaries and ranked choice voting, and and, you know, I might be willing to try that.

Steve Hilton, I guess, is currently leading, we'll see how when all the, the, the ballots are counted, how that will do.

But a Republican in California.

My goodness.

The other one is we're headed for a super El Nino, which means wetter conditions, which are really important now that we are in an emergency situation with Jerry.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Speaking of a super El Nino, I think the was excited to hear the court's upheld not dismantling the National Climate Laboratory in Boulder.

And so back to this conversation of money coming back to Colorado and why we're winning a lot in court, because a lot of what Trump's administration is doing is just illegal.

Okay.

And Amber, a high for me actually.

So, I think most people know that I'm involved with the Postal Service and I'm on the board, but, the CEO of the Ukrainian post office was in the United States at the Boston, within the World postal stamp show.

And Ukraine dedicated a stamp to the United States for the 250th anniversary.

And I actually now have a Ukrainian stamp that has that on it.

But I just thought it was really an interesting gesture and thoughtful for for Ukraine to think of us in that way and celebrate the 250 years of, of, of the country.

So they they have a stamp now dedicated to the United States.

So that's awesome.

All right.

Well, with the weekend upon us, communities like Patty mentioned across Colorado gathering for events that reflect the diversity and the spirit of our state, including the 60th Annual Greek Festival in Denver.

And as Patty mentioned, the return of the Boulder Jewish Festival, on Pearl Street Mall.

As the community there continues to reflect and more on last year's attack.

But it's a reminder of the importance of coming together in moments of lost moments of celebration to support one another and honor the memory.

Colorado is approaching our 150th birthday, and it's a connection between all of us that have brought us to where we are and will take us moving forward.

That's my preach and go vote when you get your ballot next week.

All right.

Thanks, insiders, for joining us this week.

Thank you for watching or listening to our podcast.

I'm Kyle Dyer.

I will see you next week here on PBS 12.

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