♪ SUE: I AM SUE O'’CONNELL.

TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE LOTTERY IS TRYING TO EXPAND IN RESPONSE TO THE EXPLOSION OF SPORTS BETTING, BUT AT WHAT COST?

I WILL TALK TO A RESEARCHER STUDYING GAMBLING AND THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION TO STOP PREDATORY GAMBLING.

A LEADING PHYSICIST, MICHIO KAKU , SAID EMERGING TECHNOLOGY IS ON TRACK TO REVOLUTIONIZE THE WORLD.

HE JOINS ME AHEAD TO EXPLAIN.

IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO MISS THE DEBUT OF ONLINE SPORTS BETTING IN THIS STATE WITH THE DAILY SHOW OF ADS COMING FROM ALL DIRECTIONS INCLUDING BILLBOARDS.

ON I-93 FOR THE MASS STATE LAUDED HE, IT WAS MORE THAN JUST ANNOYING.

THE EXPLOSION WOULD CUT INTO SALES WHICH WERE ALREADY ON THE DECLINE.

LOTTERY OFFICIALS ARE EXPLORING THE POSSIBILITY OF TAKING THEIR PRODUCTS ONLINE.

THEY ARE OUT WITH A NEW $50 SCRATCH TICKET, PROMISING $2, $25 AND $1 MILLION PRIZES.

AS LES BERNAL, HEAD OF THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION STOP PREDATORY GAMBLING TOLD COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE, THE GAMBLING SYSTEM HAS LED TO A MONEY LOSING GAMBLING HABIT IN THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS, KEEPING PEOPLE IN POVERTY.

LES JOINS ME NOW, AS DOES RACHEL VOLBERG FROM UMASS AMHERST.

SHE CONDUCTS A STUDY FUNDED BY THE MASSACHUSETTS GAMING COMMISSION.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL SAY, LISTEN, GAMBLING IS A CHOICE.

PEOPLE HAVE GAMBLED SINCE WE WERE ABLE TO COUNT NUMBERS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS YOU HAVE WITH THE MASS STATE LOTTERY INTRODUCING SOME OF THESE PRODUCTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN OTHER PLACES?

LES: A FEW QUICK POINTS.

THIS IS DRIVEN NOT BY A GRASSROOTS MOVEMENT, CITIZENS WERE NOT DEMANDING THE OPPORTUNITY TO PURCHASE $50 SCRATCH TICKETS AND LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES.

THIS WAS DRIVEN BY GREED AND A LUST FOR POLITICAL POWER.

JUST TO PUT SOME NUMBERS ON THIS, MASSACHUSETTS CITIZENS ARE CURRENTLY LOSING MORE THAN $5,000 OF THEIR PERSONAL WEALTH EVERY MINUTE -- IF YOU COMBINE THE LOSSES TO THE STATE LOTTERY AND THE STATE'’S REGIONAL CASINOS -- IT IS $5,000 EVERY MINUTE CITIZENS ARE LOSING PERSONAL WEALTH.

IN THE BIG PICTURE, FOR YOUR VIEWERS AT HOME ABOUT WHY THIS PRODUCT IS DIFFERENT THAN EVERY OTHER PRODUCT OR SERVICE IN THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING OTHER VICES LIKE ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND MARIJUANA, THERE IS AN ADVERSARIAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE GAMBLING OPERATOR AND THE CITIZEN.

THIS IS BASED ON CONNING PEOPLE, IT IS A FORM OF FINANCIAL FRAUD, JUST LIKE PRICE GOUGING.

THAT IS WHY THIS BUSINESS IS ILLEGAL UNLESS YOU PARTNER WITH THE STATE.

IT IS A BIG CON.

SUE: RACHEL, I WANT TO LOOK AT SOME NUMBERS, THE MOST RECENT FROM 2014.

I AM SURE THEY HAVE NOT IMPROVED.

PROBLEM GAMBLING PREVALENCE IN MASSACHUSETTS, NUMBERS FROM 2014, PROBLEM GAMBLERS, 1.7%.

AT RISK GAMBLERS, 7.5%.

THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PROBLEM GAMBLERS, MALE, 77%, BLACK, 24%, UNEMPLOYED, 17%.

IF WE SAW THESE GROUPS BEING TARGETED BY ALMOST ANY OTHER PRODUCT AND SAW THESE PROBLEMATIC RESULTS, THERE WOULD BE CONCERN.

WHAT DO YOU HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THIS DATA?

DR. VOLBERG: WHAT DO I HEAR FROM OTHER RESEARCHERS?

SUE: LAWMAKERS AND PEOPLE.

IT IS NOT SHOCKING BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT IS SHOCKING.

IS THERE EVER AN URGE TO SAY WE SHOULD INTERVENE AND STOP HAVING STATE-SPONSORED GAMBLING?

DR. VOLBERG: WELL, I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYONE SAY THAT.

AS YOU KNOW, WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF ONE OF THE MOST EXPLOSIVE EXPANSIONS OF LEGALIZED GAMBLING THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS SENN IN MANY, MANY YEARS.

YOU DO NOT OFTEN HEAR ABOUT POLICYMAKERS OR ANYBODY ELSE, REALLY, WANTING TO ELIMINATE OR REDUCE THE NUMBER OF GAMBLING OUTLETS.

WE DO KNOW FROM THE RESEARCH THAT THERE ARE GROUPS THAT ARE PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE TO DEVELOPING GAMBLING PROBLEMS.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE ARE ACTIONS THAT THE STATE IN THE FORM OF THE REGULATORS CAN TAKE TO SORT OF MINIMIZE AND MITIGATE HARM.

WE ARE FORTUNATE IN MASSACHUSETTS THAT WE HAVE A STRONG REGULATOR OF THE CASINO INDUSTRY AND MANY OF THE MEASURES THAT WERE REQUIRED IN THE LEGISLATION THAT PERMITTED LEGAL CASINOS IN MASSACHUSETTS, MANY OF THE MEASURES THAT ARE BUILT IN HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN IMPLEMENTED.

SO, MAYBE THAT IS POOR COMFORT FOR SOMEONE EXPERIENCING A GAMBLING PROBLEM THEMSELVES OR HAS A FAMILY MEMBER EXPERIENCING A GAMBLING PROBLEM, BUT MASSACHUSETTS IS ACTUALLY IN THE FOREFRONT OF ADDRESSING GAMBLING PROBLEMS.

I WOULD ADD THAT THE FIGURES YOU SHARED ABOUT THE PREVALENCE OF PROBLEM GAMBLING AND AT RISK GAMBLING IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE PRETTY MUCH THE MIDDLE OF THE PACK.

THAT IS WHAT PROBLEM GAMBLING PREVALENCE LOOKS LIKE IN MANY U.S. JURISDICTIONS.

SUE: LES, THE WORD PREDATORY IS IMPORTANT IN THIS CONVERSATION.

I SHOULD DISCLOSE THAT MY GRANDMOTHER WHO PASSED AWAY IN 1968 WAS A BOOKIE IN REVERE.

I GREW UP SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE PLACING BETS WITH MY GRANDMOTHER.

I DO NOT GAMBLE.

I WOULD RATHER OPEN THE WINDOW AND THROW MONEY INTO THE STREET THEN SPEND MONEY GAMBLING.

HOW DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SOMEONE WHO MIGHT OCCASIONALLY WANT TO GO TO THE CASINO AND MAYBE PLAY THE SLOTS FOR A NIGHT AND THEN GO HOME AND SOMEONE WHO IS BEING MARKETED A PRODUCT THAT WOULD INDEED BE PREDATORY, THAT YOU WOULD DEFINED AS PREDATORY BEHAVIOR?

LES: JUST TO PUT YOUR GRANDMOTHER'’S EXAMPLE, GAMBLING USED TO BE ILLEGAL, ON THE FRINGE OF SOCIETY.

YOU HAD TO SEEK IT OUT, GO TO THE BARROOM TO FIND IT.

TODAY, WE HAVE STATE GOVERNMENT -- THIS IS A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM -- WHETHER IT IS ONLINE GAMBLING OR IF THE MGM LOGO IS BRANDED ON THE GREEN MONSTER.

THERE ARE FROSTY THE SNOWMAN SCRATCH OFF TICKETS SOLD DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON, THAT IS CONTRASTED WITH THE JOE CAMEL ADD THAT LED TO SUING TOBACCO COMPANIES.

YOU HAVE CHECK-CASHING STORES IN MASSACHUSETTS AND LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES, THEY SELL LOTTERY TICKETS.

COMMERCIALIZED GAMBLING'’S ADVERTISING AND MARKETING HAS BECOME THE STATE BOYS IN MASSACHUSETTS AND GOVERNMENT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IT IS A CON, A LIKE.

THERE IS A HUGE CLASSISM TO THIS ISSUE.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE WITH HARVARD MBAS WHO ARE PUBLIC OFFICIALS WHO ARE PUSHING $50 SCRATCH OFF TICKETS IN LOW INCOME COMMITTEES WHERE THE REST OF THESE FOLKS HAVE PENSION FUNDS, RETIREMENT FUNDS, 529 FUNDS TO PAY FOR THEIR KIDS TO GO TO COLLEGE.

HALF OF THE STATE DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF THAT STUFF.

THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG ABOUT THIS.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, THIS IS EXHIBIT A OF WHAT IS BROKEN ABOUT AMERICA TODAY.

YOU THINK ABOUT WHY WE HAVE ALL THESE POLITICIANS WHO KEEP LYING TO THE PEOPLE, THE PUBLIC VOICE OF AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS A LIE, IT IS A CON, ADVERTISING GAMBLING AND MARKETING TO OUR COUNTRY.

SUE: RACHEL, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IS THE MARKETING, RIGHT?

AND WHO GETS MARKETED TO AND WHO IS RESPONSIVE TO IT AND WHO MAY NOT BE THE BEST TARGET IN TERMS OF THEIR OWN MENTAL HEALTH AND THEIR OWN ADDICTION ISSUES.

WHAT ARE SOME INTERVENTIONS OR STRATEGIES THAT YOU HAVE SEEN THAT HELP PUT SOME BARRIERS UP TO PUT THE BRAKES ON AND SOME GUARDRAILS UP IN TERMS OF THE MARKETING OF THESE PRODUCTS?

DR. VOLBERG: WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE IS QUITE A LOT OF ATTENTION BEING PAID TO ADVERTISING OF DIFFERENT FORMS OF GAMBLING, PARTICULARLY AS SPORTS BETTING HAS ROLLED OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE CHALLENGE THERE IS, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEMPORARY ENVIRONMENT, THESE ADVERTISING EFFORTS CAN BE VERY CAREFULLY AND VERY EFFECTIVELY TARGETED TO INDIVIDUALS.

SO, WE HAVE SEEN, NOT IN THE UNITED STATES YET, ALTHOUGH I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF SOMETHING LIKE THIS EMERGES RELATIVELY SOON, BUT WE HAVE SEEN IN SOME OTHER INTERNATIONAL JURISDICTIONS SUCH AS AUSTRALIA AND GREAT BRITAIN WERE REGULATORS HAVE ESSENTIALLY DECREED THAT ADVERTISING OF -- GAMBLING ADVERTISING, PARTICULARLY ONLINE OPERATORS, BEFORE THE GAME, AFTER THE GAME AND DURING THE GAME.

THERE ARET TOOLS THAT REGULATORS CAN USE TO CURTAIL THE ADVERTISING BUT, IT REALLY TAKES , AS I AM SURE LES WOULD AGREE, IT REALLY TAKES A GRASSROOTS EFFORT AND A VERY STRONG REGULATOR TO BE ABLE TO IMPOSE AN ADVERTISING RESTRICTION OF THAT KIND.

SUE: LES, IT IS OBVIOUSLY UNLIKELY THAT THE CLOCK WILL GET TURNED BACK ON THE STATE BEING INVOLVED IN GAMBLING.

I AM WONDERING, WHAT WOULD YOU BE ADVOCATING FOR?

WHAT IS THE MINIMUM YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE STATE LAWMAKERS DO IN ORDER TO CURTAIL WHAT YOU SEE AS PREDATORY BEHAVIOR?

LES: I COULD NOT DISAGREE MORE STRONGLY WITH YOUR STATEMENT.

IT IS INEVITABLE THAT GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED GAMBLING WILL BE ROLLED BACK DRAMATICALLY IN OUR COUNTRY TODAY.

WE TALK ABOUT ADVERTISING RESTRICTIONS.

STATE LOTTERIES ARE EXEMPT FROM TRUTH IN ADVERTISING REGULATIONS.

THAT IS THE REALITY.

IT IS IRONIC WE ARE IN MASSACHUSETTS WERE ONE OF OUR CORE PRINCIPLES AS A NATION IS NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.

TODAY WE HAVE A SYSTEM WITH STATE LOTTERIES AND REGIONAL CASINOS WE HAVE A SYSTEM OF TAXATION BY EXPLOITATION AND IT IS TIME THE PRINCIPAL BE ADDED AMONG THE OTHER PRINCIPLES WE BASE OUR DEMOCRACY ON.

SUE: I IMAGINE THAT SOMEONE WOULD SAY THE MONEY THAT COMES IN FROM THE STATE LOTTERY, AS WE ARE SAYING, HAVE NOT BEEN THE NUMBERS WE WOULD WANT THEM TO BE , THAT REVENUE WOULD NEED TO BE REPLACED SOMEHOW.

AS WE HAVE SEEN IN GOVERNMENT, BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL, THOSE MOTIVATORS DO NOT NECESSARILY HELP YOU TO BRING SOMETHING BACK THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RELEASED.

WOULD NOT BE THE CHALLENGE?

LES: STATE GOVERNMENT SPONSORSHIP OF GAMBLING HAS BEEN AN EPIC POLICY FAILURE.

INDEPENDENT RESEARCH SHOWS STATE SANCTIONED GAMBLING IS A BUDGET GIMMICK AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE GONE FROM A $1 PER WEEK TICKET TO $50 TICKETS.

IT IS A MONEY LOSER.

PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS HAVE SEEN THEIR TAXES GO DOWN SINCE THE INTRODUCTION.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO PROFIT IN THIS BUSINESS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE GAMBLING GAMES.

THAT IS WHERE THEY SPENT TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOBBYING FOR IT.

YOU THE TAXPAYER ARE PAYING HIGHER TAXES BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED GAMBLING.

IT HAS BEEN AN EPIC POLICY FAILURE.

SUE: AS WE CLOSE OUT, IT HAS BEEN HARD TO SQUARE, CHURCHES HAVE BINGO, GOVERNMENT HAS LOTTERY, SOME CASINOS GET TO EXIST, SOME RACETRACKS GET TO EXIST, IS THERE A COLLECTIVE APPROACH ABOUT TRYING TO MAKE THIS LESS PREDATORY OR SAFER FOR THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO PARTAKE IN A BUSINESS WAY OR ENTERTAINMENT OR LEISURE WAY?

DR. VOLBERG: THERE ARE CERTAINLY SOME BEST PRACTICES THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED OVER QUITE A NUMBER OF YEARS OF RESEARCH.

I HAVE BEEN DOING GAMBLING RESEARCH FOR QUITE A LONG TIME.

I THINK WE KNOW MUCH MORE NOW ABOUT WHAT IS EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF GAMBLING PROVISION AND HOW TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT AT LEAST MITIGATES THE HARMS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE UNITED STATES, GAMBLING IS REGULATED AT THE STATE LEVEL.

THERE IS NO FEDERAL AGENCY THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OVERSEEING GAMBLING IN THE STATES.

IT IS ALL DONE AT THE STATE LEVEL.

THE ONES THAT ARE FIRST TO MARKET MAKE MISTAKES AND THE ONES THAT ARE SECOND TO MARKET MAKE FEWER MISTAKES AND SORT OF GET TO THE END OF THE ROAD, THE LAST STATE THAT LEGALIZED SPORTS BETTING WILL UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE MISTAKES THAT OTHERS MADE.

SUE: WE WILL HAVE TO LEAVE THAT THERE, RACHEL VOLBERG.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXPERTISE.

LES BERNAL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I ENJOYED OUR DISCUSSION.

LES: THANK YOU.

DR. VOLBERG:.

THANK YOU.

SUE: IF YOU NEED HELP WITH THE GAMBLING PROGRAM OVER LIKE TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION, YOU CAN CALL THE MASSACHUSETTS GAMBLING PROBLEM HELPLINE OR GO TO GAMBLINGHELPLINEMA.ORG.

WE HAVE TALKED A LOT IN THE RECENT DAYS ABOUT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND HOW IT COULD DISRUPT THE WAYS WE LIVE AND WORK FOR BETTER AND WORSE BUT THERE IS ANOTHER EMERGING TECHNOLOGY ON THE HORIZON WITH EVEN GREATER POTENTIAL TO REVOLUTIONIZE SOCIETY -- QUANTUM COMPUTING.

STAY WITH ME.

THEORETICAL PHYSICIST MICHIO KAKU'’S DRAWING ATTENTION TO THE POSSIBILITIES IT COULD HOLD FOR THE FUTURE WHAT THE PROBLEM TO SOLVE PROBLEMS MILLIONS OF TIMES FASTER THAN THE DIGITAL COMPUTERS WE USE TODAY.

HE BREAKS IT ALL DOWN IN HIS BOOK, "QUANTUM SUPREMACY: HOW THE QUANTUM COMPUTER REVOLUTION WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING' ."

IT IS SUCH A PLEASURE TO TALK WITH YOU IN PERSON.

BEFORE PEOPLE SAY, I WILL NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THIS BECAUSE THE WORD QUANTUM IS ENDED, WHAT COULD YOU TELL THE VIEWERS THAT THIS IDEA IS THAT YOU PUT FORWARD?

DR. KAKU: EVERY CHRISTMAS, WE ASSUME OUR TOYS ARE TWICE AS FAR THAN THE PREVIOUS CHRISTMAS.

IT IS SLOWING DOWN NOW.

A NEW REVOLUTION IS ABOUT TO EMERGE.

WE HAVE PUT ONE BILLION TRANSISTORS ON SOMETHING THE SIZE OF YOUR FINGERNAIL.

THAT WILL BE OBSOLETE.

SILICON VALLEY COULD BECOME A RUST BELT AS WE GO TO THE NEXT STEP BEYOND DIGITAL.

MOTHER NATURE DOES NOT USE DIGITAL.

MOTHER NATURE DOES NOT COMPUTE WITH ZEROS AND ONES.

MOTHER NATURE COMPUTES WITH THE QUANTUM, ELECTRONS WHIZZING AROUND MOLECULES.

THAT IS WHY WE DO NOT HAVE A CURE FOR CANCER, ALZHEIMER'’S, PARKINSON'’S DISEASE OR THE AGING PROCESS.

ALL OF THAT TAKES PLACE AT THE MOLECULAR QUANTUM LEVEL.

FOR THE FIRST TIME, WE HAVE QUANTUM COMPUTERS THAT ARE MILLIONS OF TIMES MORE POWERFUL THAN THE CORRESPONDING DIGITAL COMPUTER.

AND IN THE COMING YEARS, WE HOPE TO REPLACE ALL THE DIGITAL COMPUTERS OF TODAY, JUST LIKE THE ABACUS IS NO LONGER CUTTING EDGE SCIENCE.

SUE: TALK TO ME ABOUT SOME PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS THAT FOLKS CAN UNDERSTAND.

IF WE AGREE THAT QUANTUM WORKS IN NATURE AND WILL BE SO MUCH FASTER THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF CALCULATING AND DOING RESEARCH, WHAT ARE SOME AREAS OF OUR LIVES THAT WE WOULD SEE DIFFERENT AND IMPROVED?

DR. KAKU: IMMEDIATELY, MEDICINE.

ALL MEDICINE TAKES PLACE AT THE QUANTUM LEVEL.

PARKINSON'’S, ALL THE DISEASES WE ARE ACCUSTOMED TO HEARING ABOUT, THE AGING PROCESS, ALL OF THAT TAKES PLACE AT THE MOLECULAR LEVEL.

QUANTUM COMPUTERS CAN ALLY WAS TO TRANSLATE AND UNDERSTAND THE MECHANISM BY WHICH CANCER AND PARKINSON'’S AND ALS OPERATE.

IT WILL CREATE A REVOLUTION IN MEDICINE.

NEW DRUGS, NEW THERAPIES.

NOT TO MENTION, ENERGY.

WE HAVE FUSION PLANTS THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME CAN GENERATE AS MUCH ENERGY AS THEY CONSUME.

THAT COULD BE THE FUTURE IN THE COMING DECADES -- NOT ANYTIME SOON.

A QUANTUM COMPUTER CAN SPEED UP THE PROCESS BY STABILIZING THE HYDROGEN GAS IN A FUSION REACTOR AND CREATING A SUPER BATTERY.

WHY DON'’T WE HAVE THIS ALL THE REVOLUTION THAT EVERYONE TALKED ABOUT FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS?

THE BOTTLENECK IS NOT THE SOLAR CELL, IT IS THE BATTERY.

HOW DO YOU STORE THE ENERGY WHEN THE SUN DOES NOT SHINE AND THE WINDS DO NOT BLOW?

EVERYONE FORGETS THAT.

QUANTUM COMPUTERS CAN CREATE A SUPER BATTERY BECAUSE THEY CAN MIMIC CHEMICAL REACTIONS.

DIGITAL COMPUTERS CANNOT DO THAT.

.

YOU CANNOT PUT CHEMICALS TOGETHER INSIDE A COMPUTER AND HAVE THEM CALCULATE.

QUANTUM COMPUTERS CAN DO THAT BECAUSE THEY COMPUTE WITH ATOMS RATHER THAN WITH TRANSISTORS.

THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION IS BASED ON ZEROS AND ONES, ZEROS AND ONES, ZEROS AND ONES.

THAT IS CALLED THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION.

BUT MOTHER NATURE TO NOT COMPUTE THAT WAY.

WHEN YOU GO OUTSIDE AND SEE FLOWERS AND PLANTS AND INSECTS AND LIFE, LIFE IS QUANTUM AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW.

WE ARE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE OF MOTHER NATURE.

SUE: SOME OF COURSE THE CHALLENGE IS FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, AS A LAYMAN THAT QUANTUM COMPUTERS ARE VERY, VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE TO MAKE AND PRODUCE, WHERE'’D YOU SEE MANUFACTURING CATCHING UP WITH WHAT THE POSSIBILITIES ARE THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

DR. KAKU: IF WE USE MOTHER NATURE AS A GUIDE, REALIZE MOTHER NATURE ALREADY HAS QUANTUM COMPUTERS.

THEY ARE CALLED LEAVES AND FLOWERS, PHOTOSYNTHESIS.

PHOTOSYNTHESIS IS A QUANTUM PROCESS AND WE ARE JUST BEGINNING TO MIMIC THAT.

WHY ARE QUANTUM COMPUTERS EXPENSIVE TODAY?

WE HAVE THEM BUT THEY'’RE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO COOL THEM DOWN TO NEAR ABSOLUTE ZERO SO THERE IS NO VIBRATION THAT WILL DISTURB THE CALCULATION.

MOTHER NATURE CAN DO IT WITHOUT COOLING THINGS DOWN.

MOTHER NATURE OPERATES AT ROOM TEMPERATURE.

WE ARE JUST BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND HOW MOTHER NATURE CAN DO IT SO WE ARE BASICALLY FOLLOWING NATURE'’S COURSE.

NATURE IS QUANTUM.

THAT IS HOW NATURE CALCULATES DRUGS, DISEASES, THERAPIES.

ALL OF THAT IS DONE AT THE QUANTUM LEVEL.

HOW DO WE AS HUMANS UNDERSTAND MEDICINE?

BY TRIAL AND ERROR.

BY TRIAL AND ERROR, WE FIND THE NEXT SUPER DRUG.

CAN YOU IMAGINE FINDING THE NEXT SUPER DRUG BY PUSHING A BUTTON ON A COMPUTER AND HAVING THE COMPUTER SIMULATE THE MOTION OF A DRUG INSIDE YOUR BODY?

THAT WILL REVOLUTIONIZE ALL MEDICINE.

MEDICINE WILL NO LONGER BE DONE WITH TEST TUBES.

IT WILL BE DONE WITH QUANTUM COMPUTERS.

SUE: WE HAVE BEEN TALKING A LOT AND I HAVE TALKED TO FOLKS WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CHATGPT AND PREDICTIVE TEXT AND HOW THAT WILL CHANGE THINGS BUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS NOT NECESSARILY HOW CHATGPT WILL COLLECT DATA BUT THEN MAKE PREDICTIONS BASED ON WHAT IT IS SEEING.

WITH QUANTUM COMPUTING WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS A VIRTUAL LAB WILL BE BUILT WHERE THE QUANTUM COMPUTER VERY QUICKLY WILL BE ABLE TO ASSESS WHAT MEDICINES AND WHAT TREATMENTS WOULD OR WOULD NOT WORK BASED ON OUR EXISTING BIOLOGY, IS THAT RIGHT?

DR. KAKU: EXACTLY.

RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE THOUSANDS OF TEST TUBES AND MAN I WAS DUPLICATE REACTIONS IN A CHEMISTRY LABORATORY.

WHEN YOU GO TO A MEDICAL LABORATORY IT LOOKS LIKE A CHEMISTRY LABORATORY.

IN THE FUTURE, IT WILL BE DONE IN THE MEMORY OF A COMPUTER BECAUSE THAT IS HOW MOTHER NATURE DOES IT.

MOTHER NATURE DOES NOT NEED TEST TUBES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CUTTING THROUGH ALL OF THAT TO CREATE NEW TECHNOLOGIES, NEW THERAPIES USING THE MEMORY OF A QUANTUM COMPUTER.

THINK ABOUT THAT -- THIS WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING.

THE DIGITAL COMPUTER CHANGED THE WORLD ECONOMY.

THERE IS A RACE GOING ON BETWEEN CHINA, GOOGLE, IBM, MICROSOFT TO OBTAIN THE FIRST COMMERCIALLY VIABLE QUANTUM COMPUTER.

WHOEVER KNOWS THAT COULD RULE THE WORLD ECONOMY OF THE FUTURE.

THE SAME WAY THAT THE PEOPLE WHO RULE DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY RULE THE DIGITAL ECONOMY, THE FUTURE OF THE WORLD ECONOMY WILL BE QUANTUM.

SUE: LET'’S TALK ABOUT THE DOWNSIDES.

WE ARE PLAYING CATCH UP WHEN IT COMES TO FACEBOOK, WHICH HAS BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME.

WE ARE NOT EXACTLY SHOWING A LOT OF APPETITE FROM LAWMAKERS TO GET OUT AHEAD OF SOME THINGS.

SOME OF THE CHATGPT FOLKS HAVE COME FORWARD AND SAY WE DID REGULATION, ALTHOUGH SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT WAS A BONE DAY THREW TO CONGRESS BECAUSE CONGRESS WILL NOT DO ANYTHING.

WHAT ARE SOME THINGS WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT WITH QUANTUM COMPUTING?

DR. KAKU: THE PROBLEM IS IT IS SO POWERFUL THAT IT CAN BREAK ANY KNOWN DIGITAL CODE.

BANKING TRANSACTIONS, BITCOIN, THE STOCK MARKET, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT THE CROWN JEWELS OF YOUR INVESTMENTS.

THE MILITARY HAS TO PROTECT ITS CODES FOR NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

THE QUANTUM COMPUTER IS SO POWERFUL THAT IN THE PRINCIPAL IN THE FUTURE IT COULD BREAK ANY KNOWN DIGITAL CODE.

IS THE CIA WORRIED ABOUT IT?

YES.

DOCUMENTS RELEASED FROM THE CIA THAT THEY ARE MONITORING THIS CAREFULLY BECAUSE THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE IN A RACE TO PERFECT THIS TECHNOLOGY WHICH IN TURN COULD ALLOW THEM TO BREAK RIGHT THROUGH ALL OF THE CODES ESTABLISHED BY SOME OF THE LEADING COMPUTER COMPANIES OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES.

THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF STANDARDS, THE OLD NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF STANDARDS PUBLISHED GUIDELINES RECENTLY SAYING, YES, THE COMPUTER REVOLUTION WILL GO DIGITAL.

IT MEANS WE HAVE TO GO ON THE LOOKOUT.

IT IS NOT HAPPENING YET BUT IT WILL HAPPEN AND WE HAVE TO MAKE PREPARATIONS TODAY SO WE ARE NOT CAUGHT OFF GUARD IN THE FUTURE WHEN SOMEBODY IS ABLE TO CRACK RIGHT THROUGH YOUR MOST TREASURED CODES.

SUE: MICHIO KAKU, I WANT TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A TURN.

I KNOW IN YOUR TEACHING YOU DO A LOT OF EXPLANATION OF SCIENCE FICTION AND WHAT IS POSSIBLE AND WHAT IS NOT POSSIBLE AND WHAT IS COMPLETE FANTASY.

I AM WONDERING, WITH SO MANY MOVIES THAT HAVE THAT THE WORD QUANTUM IN THEM OR TALKING ABOUT STRING THEORY AND MULTIPLE UNIVERSES, DO YOU FEEL PEOPLE ARE MAYBE BECOMING MORE LITERATE OR MORE CURIOUS ABOUT THE REAL ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC IDEAS THAT ARE UNDERPINNING THESE FANTASIES?

DR. KAKU: I THINK IT IS A GOOD THING THAT SCIENCE FICTION IS GRADUALLY CATCHING UP TO PHYSICS.

IT USED TO BE SCIENCE FICTION WAS GOING TO THE PLANETS, THE MOON, MARS.

THAT IS OLD HAT.

WE HAVE BEEN THERE.

WE HAVE DONE THAT.

WE HAVE BEEN TO THE MOON.

WE HAVE BEEN TO MARS.

NOW WE WANT TO GO INTO HYPERSPACE AND THE METAVERSE.

THAT IS WHAT THE MOVIES ARE ABOUT.

THEY ARE DISCOVERING STRING THEORY, QUANTUM MECHANICS.

ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE ABOUT THE MULTI-VERSE.

ALL THE LANGUAGE COMES RIGHT OUT OF PHYSICS.

FINALLY, SCIENCE FICTION WRITERS ARE SAYING WE WILL NOT GO BACK TO THE MOON AGAIN, WE HAVE BEEN THERE TOO MANY TIMES.

LET'’S JUMP INTO THE MULTI-VERSE BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE QUANTUM COMPUTERS LIVE.

WHAT IS THE POWER OF THESE COMPUTERS?

THEY COMPUTE IN MULTIPLE UNIVERSES.

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE SO POWERFUL.

.

A DIGITAL COMPUTER COMPUTES IN ONE UNIVERSE.

THE QUANTUM COMPUTER COMPUTES IN THE MULTI-VERSE.

WHO IS CATCHING UP TO THIS JARGON?

MARVEL COMICS.

SUE: [LAUGHTER] THANK GOODNESS FOR MARVEL COMICS.

I REALLY ENJOYED THE BOOK AND I AM SO HAPPY YOU WERE ABLE TO JOIN US AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE NEXT 10, 15, 20 YEARS.

MICHIO KAKU, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

DR. KAKU: MY PLEASURE.

SUE: THE BOOK IS "QUANTUM SUPREMACY: HOW THE QUANTUM COMPUTER REVOLUTION WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING."

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR TALKING POLITICS.

ADAM REILLY AND HIS PANEL WILL DIG INTO HOW THE STATE MANAGED TO SCREW UP $2.5 BILLION IN UNEMPLOYMENT PAYMENTS.

PLUS, WHAT IS NEXT FOR CNN AFTER THE CONTROVERSIAL CEO IS OUT.

THAT IT MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

I AM SUE O'’CONNELL.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.

♪ ♪ ♪