>> Tim: THANKS FOR TUNING.

PETER SPADAFORE IS THE HEAD OF THE MICHIGAN ALLIANCE FOR STUDEN OPPORTUNITY AND HE AND OTHER ARE TALKING ABOUT RAISING MORE REVENUE FOR THE SCHOOLS.

OUR LEAD STORY.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOING AFTER REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED NO ON GUN SAFETY LEGISLATION.

ON THE OTR PANEL, RICK PLUTA, ALYSSA BURR AND BILL BALLENGER.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT.

"OFF THE RECORD."

>> PRODUCTION FOR "OFF THE RECORD" IS MADE IN POSSIBLE IN PART -- NOW THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD."

>> Tim: WELCOME TO STUDIO C ON THIS SMOKY WEEKEND.

EVERYBODY DOING ALL RIGHT.

>> WE'RE ONE OF THE HOT SPOTS.

>> Tim: TALK ABOUT GETTING IN BED.

REPUBLICANS VOTED WRONG WAY ON THE GUN ISSUES ARE HEARING IT FROM DEMOCRATS ON TV AND BILLBOARDS.

THE FIGHT FOR THE MICHIGAN HOUSE IS OVER 300 DAYS DOWN THE ROAD.

THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS LANDED THE FIRST PUNCH BY LAUNCHING A TV DIGITAL AND BILLBOARD AD CAMPAIGN AGAINST SIX OF THE MOST VULNERABLE HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED NO.

>> HE VOTED AGAINST COMMON SENSE GUN SAFETY REFORM.

>> Tim: WITH THE ELECTION SO FAR DOWN THE ROAD, WHY DO THIS NOW?

>> PLANTING A SEED AND THIS IS GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR OUR REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS.

>> Tim: HOUSE SPEAKER JOE TATE KNOW THEY HAVE A SLIM TWO VOTE EDGE OVER THE REPUBLICANS.

TO ENSURE THEY DON'T LOSE THAT EDGE, IF THEY CAN KNOCK OFF SEVERAL REPUBLICANS IN THE NEXT ELECTION, THEY CAN KEEP CONTROL.

HOWEVER, ON THE OTHER SIDE, ONE PRO GUN LOBBY GROUP IS RECALLING DEMOCRATS WHO VOTED FOR THE GUN SAFETY ISSUES.

WHICH IF SUCCESSFUL, COULD GIVE REPUBLICANS BACK CONTROL.

RECALLERS HAVE A TOUGHER ASSIGNMENT.

SINCE A VAST MAJORITY OF VOTERS FAVOR THE GUN SAFETY ISSUES THAT THE SIX REPUBLICANS DID NOT SUPPORT.

INCLUDING MANY NRA VOTERS.

>> THE NRA IS NOT AS STRONG AS IT USED TO BE.

THEY ARE NOT REPRESENTING THEIR MEMBERS.

BASED ON OUR POLLING THAT WE HAVE DONE ON THAT ISSUE.

>> RECALL AGAINST LAWMAKERS VOTED YES ON GUN SAFETY MIGHT NOT WORK OR DOESN'T HAVE A CHANCE?

>> I DON'T THINK IT HAS A CHANCE.

>> Tim: THE DEMOCRATS USED THE MSU SHOOTING STORY INCLUDING THIS STORY.

>> IMAGINE IT WILL BE LIKE TO BE IN OUR SHOES.

>> Tim: THREE COMMERCIALS ARE AIMED OAKLAND COUNTY REPUBLICAN WHO REPRESENTS THE OXFORD SCHOOL DISTRICT WHERE FOUR STUDENTS WERE KILLED AS A RESULT OF GUN VIOLENCE.

ALYSSA WHEN YOU HEARD THAT THE Ds WERE UP EARLY ON AND WHAT DID YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IT'S INTERESTING.

I FEEL LIKE THE DEMOCRATS ARE FEELING THE WEIGHT OF THEIR SLIM MAJORITIES.

IT'S EARLY IN CAMPAIGN SEASON.

IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THEY CAN KEEP THE MAJORITY AND POSSIBLY EVEN GROW THEIR MAJORITY, THERE'S BEEN MANY INSTANCES THIS TERM IN PARTICULAR WHERE THEY'VE HAD MEMBERS ABSENT AND HAVING TO SIT IN THE GALLERY BEING SIT BECAUSE THEY NEED THOSE VOTES.

USE TO THEIR BENEFIT.

>> THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THINGS TO USE AGAINST THE REPUBLICANS.

ALYSSA SAID, IT'S A SLIM MAJORITY.

THIS IS YOU START AND YOU REINFORCE AND YOU REINFORCE.

BY THE TIME VOTING COMES AROUND THAT YOU'VE GOT A MESSAGE THAT PEOPLE REMEMBER.

>> Tim: DOES THIS WORK THIS EARLY ON?

>> WELL, ONLY IF IT BUILDS AS WE'VE BEEN SAYING.

THERE'S A REAL QUESTION.

THEY GOT PUBLIC OPINION ON THEIR SIDE.

THEY ARE PUTTING THESE ADS IN LOT OF DISTRICTS THAT ARE VERY MARGINAL AND COULD GO THEIR WAY THE NEXT ELECTION.

>> THEY GOT DOLLARS TO WORK WITH RIGHT NOW.

THEY'RE IN THE MAJORITY.

>> Tim: THIS IS THE FIRST WAVE.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY IS THIS IN THING, HOW MUCH IS ON THE TUBE.

THREE LAWMAKERS IN OAKLAND COUNTY, I THINK ARE CRITICAL TO THIS.

>> AS WAS MENTIONED, THE MSU SHOOTING AND OXFORD SHOOTING ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF PEOPLE'S MINDS.

IT'S DEFINITELY IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO GET OUT.

I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT LOT OF PEOPLE CARE ABOUT WHILE THESE THINGS ARE AFFECTING THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THESE MESSAGES DO RESULT IN THE DISTRICT SWINGING THEIR WAY.

>> ONE OF THE THING TO THINK ABOUT SEEMS HARD TO CONTEMPLATE NOW.

THERE COULD BE NEW DISTRICTS BECAUSE OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION ON VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

THOSE LINES MAY BE WITHDRAWN.

HARD TO BELIEVE THEY WILL BE REDRAWN FOR 2024 AND '26.

IF SO, THESE REPRESENTATIVES MAY BE IN DIFFERENT DISTRICTS.

>> Tim: RICK, IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE REPUBLICANS, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS TO EXPLAIN THAT VOTE ON LEGISLATION THAT 80% OF THE PEOPLE THAT INTEREST IN YOUR DISTRICT MAY BE SUPPORT IT.

>> YOU SAY THAT I VOTED MY CONSCIOUS.

THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO COMBAT GUN VIOLENCE.

IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN THE MESSAGING THAT REPUBLICANS WRIT LARGE USED, WHICH IS GO AFTER THE DEEPER PROBLEM AND TREAT MENTAL HEALTH AND DEPRESSION.

I HAVEN'T SEEN A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT VOTERS ARE BUYING THAT.

VOTERS WHO AREN'T REPUBLICANS.

>> Tim: YOU CHANGED THE TOPIC.

BY THE WAY, I BROUGHT YOU $9000 FOR EVERYONE ONE OF YOUR SCHOOL KIDS IN OUR DISTRICT.

HE SAID THAT DOESN'T WORK.

THE GUYS THAT WERE RECALLED, CAME TO HIM AND SAID, LET'S JUST CHANGE THE SUBJECT.

HE SAYS, NO YOU'RE GOING TO BE RECALLED ON THE TAX ISSUE.

WILL NOT WORK.

THEY IGNORED HIM.

THEY GOT RECALLED.

>> HOW DO YOU CHANGE THE SUBJECT WHEN YOU'RE ALREADY GETTING PUMMELED WITH ADS ON TV AND ONLINE?

>> WHEN YOU'RE EXPLAINING, YOU'RE LOSING.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.

>> Tim: BILLY, GOVERNOR RICK SNSCHNEIDER -- >> HE WANTS TO HAVE RELEVANCE AGAIN.

HE WANTS TO SHOW, I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT HE SEES AS A KEY PLAYERS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW, WHICH ARE ARE THE TWO REPUBLICAN CAUCUSES IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, PARTICULARLY MATT HALL AND ERIC NESBITT.

HE WANTS TO INFLUENCE THEM.

>> Tim: RAISING MONEY.

>> THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT WAS ASSUMED BY YOUR QUESTION.

THAT'S WHAT HE'S DOING.

HE'S RAISING MONEY.

HE WANTS TO HAVE INFLUENCE IN THOSE CAUCUSES.

HE WANTS IT TO STOP.

HE WANTS TO STOP THE HEMORRHAGING.

HE WANTS TO GET IN WITH THE PEOPLE HE THINKS CAN HELP THE MOST STOP THAT.

IT'S NOT THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHICH IS A SHAMBLES.

HE'S GOING TO THE CAUCUSES.

HE LIKES NESBITT AND MATT HALL.

HE SAID I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU MONEY AND GET BACK IN THE GAME.

>> SCHNEIDER MAYBE SAW IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GAIN FAVOR BACK.

SCHNEIDER OPERATED UNDER A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE AND NOW THAT THEY ARE IN THE MINORITY, THEY MAY NEED SOME OF THAT STAR POWER FROM SCHNEIDER TO POTENTIALLY WIN BACK VOTERS.

>> Tim: HE IS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF HIS PARTY.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

MY QUESTION TO YOU, RICK, WHY DOES HE HAVE TO BECOME PART OF THE FORMER APPARATUS TO DO THIS.

WHY DON'T HE JUST F FREELANCE AD RAISE THE MONEY?

>> IT'S REPUTATION AND RELEVANCE THAT HE'S TRYING -- HE IS TRYING TO HELP REDIRECT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHICH AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, DOESN'T EXIST IN MICHIGAN.

THE CAUCUSES ALREADY MADE CLEAR AFTER THE LAST CONVENTION THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ADOPT A GO IT ALONE STRATEGY FOR FUNDRAISING.

ALSO, HE'S GOING TO REDIRECT THE REPUBLICAN IF NOT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THE FORM SENSE THE REPUBLICAN COALITION.

ONE OF THE CONDITIONS IS, IF YOU'RE GOING TO ENGAGE SORT OF TRUMPIST LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE SEEING AND GET INVOLVED IN THOSE SORTS OF -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO ENGAGE IN THAT, WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO HELP YOU.

IT'S NOT JUST FUNDRAISING.

IT'S CANDIDATE RECRUITMENT.

THAT WILL BE A WAY TO REDIRECT THE DIRECTION OF THE PARTY WITH PEOPLE THAT THEY SEE AS MORE ADULT THAN THE FIRE BOMB FLINGERS IN ARE LEADING NOW.

>> Tim: SOME OF THE FIRE BOMBERS IN THE CAUCUS MAY SEE HIM AS INTRUDER.

>> THEY MIGHT.

REMEMBER, SCHNEIDER DIDN'T EXACTLY HAVE A WARM AND FUZZY RELATIONSHIP WITH LOT OF REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURES WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR.

HE WAS A MORE MODERATE GOVERNOR.

A GOVERNOR WHO WASN'T IN SYNC WITH ALL OF THE ISSUE.

>> Tim: SHE GAVE THEM MEDICAID REFORM.

>> A GUY WHO BROUGHT OBAMACARE TO MICHIGAN WITH A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE.

>> I THINK HE'S TRYING TO SAY CAUCUS, I'M NOT AS BAD AS YOU THOUGHT I WAS.

I'M GOING TO PROVE THAT I'M ONE OF YOU.

I WANT TO FIGHT SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH YOU AGAINST WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE DOING.

>> Tim: CAN HE CHANGE THE DIALOGUE?

>> WELL, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE FUNDRAISING NUMBERS FROM THIS PERIOD, THE REPUBLICAN AND THE DEMOCRAT CAUCUS ARE NECK-AND-NECK.

THEY ARE EXTREMING CLOSE ABOUT 1.25 MILLION.

THAT WILL BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT CLOSER AS THE YEAR GOES ON.

LIKE WE MENTIONED, WE'RE WAY EARLY IN CAMPAIGN SEASON.

I THINK THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING TO TAKE A LOOK AT.

>> Tim: LET'S CALL IN OUR GUEST TODAY AND TALK ABOUT SCHOOL FUNDING AND RELATED ISSUES.

♪ MR. SPADAFORE WELCOME TO "OFF THE RECORD."

LET'S TALK AN ISSUE THAT IMPACTS EVERY SCHOOL FAMILY ACROSS THE CITY OF MICHIGAN.

WHEN DOES SCHOOL START?

YOU GUYS WANT TO ELIMINATE THAT LAB DAY DEMAND -- LABOR DAY MANDATORY THING.

GIVE US MONDAYS AND FRIDAYS OFF DURING ALL OF AUGUST.

THAT'S THE COMPROMISE.

WILL YOU TAKE IT?

>> WE'RE LOOKING AT THE STRAIGHT UP REPEAL LABOR DAY MANDATE.

>> Tim: ISN'T THAT A COMPROMISE?

>> WE GOT THE ENTIRE EDUCATION COMMUNITY REPEALING THE MANDATE.

DISTRICTS ARE OPERATING UNDER A WAIVER.

THAT UNDER THE STIPULATION MONDAYS THROUGH FRIDAY OFF.

RIGHT NOW THAT'S A NO.

WE'LL BE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT THE FRIDAY BEFORE LABOR DAY.

STUDENTS ARE ON CAMPUS.

AS I MENTIONED, 75% OF DISTRICTS ARE ALREADY OPERATING WITH THAT WAIVER.

>> Tim: YOU GOT THE VOTES WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE TO COMPROMISE?

>> WE'RE OPEN TO DISCUSSION.

>> Tim: YOU SAID YOU WEREN'T GOING TO TAKE IT?

>> I GRAY, WE GOT THE VOTES NOW.

>> THIS IS THE DISTINCTION WITHOUT A DIFFERENCE.

RIGHT NOW, ALL THE WAIVERS THAT ARE REQUESTED ARE BEING GRANTED.

WHY NOT LET THE SYSTEM CONTINUE THE WAY IT IS?

>> WE HAD IT THE OTHER WAY, WHY NOT GO BACK TO THAT WAY.

WHEN IT'S BUREAUCRAT IC AND IT'S CUMBERSOME.

THEY WANT TO START THE SCHOOL LITTLE EARLIER.

THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT WAIVER PROCESS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION IS DRASTICALLY UNDERSTAFFED NOW.

THAT'S NOT REALLY THE TRUTH.

IF YOU LOOKING AT 75% OF OUR DISTRICTS ARE ALREADY DOING THIS WITH THE WAIVER.

JUST ELIMINATE THAT WAIVER AND ALLOW THEM TO DO THIS.

>> IS THERE ANY CONCERN, WE'VE SEEN THIS IN OTHER ISSUES THIS LEGISLATURE, A TIGHTLY DIVIDED ENVIRONMENT BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS THAT IN ONE YEAR, YOU'LL HAVE ONE RULE REGARDING WHEN SCHOOL STARTS AND ANOTHER YEAR, YOU COULD HAVE A DIFFERENT RULE ON WHEN SCHOOL STARTS.

THEN YOU GOT A CALENDAR THAT'S UNPREDICTABLE.

>> THERE'S POTENTIAL OF THAT.

WE GENERALLY SIGN LONGER TERM AGREEMENTS IN SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

THE STATE LAW COULD CHANGE.

WE HAVE SOME TIME TO RAMP UP CHANGES.

EVEN THE LAST SESSION, WE HAD STRONG SUPPORT IN BOTH CAUCUSES FOR REPEALING THE WAIVER.

IT'S GENERALLY LAWMAKERS FROM NORTHERN MICHIGAN LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR CONSTITUENCIES.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S AS BIG OF A FEAR.

>> WHEN YOU SAY SUPPORT IN BOTH 401K-- CAUCUSES, DOES THAT SUGGT YOU BARGAINING WITH DEMOCRATS.

>> WE GOT REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC VOTES.

THE BILL IS BEFORE US THIS YEAR.

>> I THINK YOU CAN AGREE IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUT STUDENTS AT THE FOREFRONT.

OF COURSE THERE'S MAJORITY OF DISTRICTS WHO APPLY FOR THESE WAIVERS AND GET APPROVED.

ARE THERE ANY DIFFERENCES YOU SEE IN MAY BE STUDENTS BEHAVIOR IN THESE DISTRICTS WHO HAVE THESE WAIVERS OR WANTS THAT DON'T?

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SCHOOL SCHEDULE.

IF WE START EARLIER, WE HAVE MORE TIME TO GET THE STUDENTS READY TO GET ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS OF LEARNING.

WE HAVE TESTING SCHEDULES, AP CLASSES TEST LONG BEFORE THE SECOND WEEK OF JUNE.

EVEN STANDARDIZED TEST WHICH IS HAPPENING EARLIER IN THE YEAR.

YOU GOT THE ABILITY TO GET STUDENTS EDUCATED IN THE CLASSROOM FOR THOSE -- GETTING PREPARED FOR THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

WE CAN ADD DAYS IN JUNE, BY THE TIME THAT THE AP TESTS ROLLED AROUND AND EVALUATIONS HAVE TAKEN PLACE, YOU JUST ADDING IT AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

IT'S IMPORTANT.

IT RECOGNIZES THE LOCAL CONTROL NATURE OF THE STATE.

>> EROSION OF ACCOUNTABILITY GOING ON WITH SOME OF THIS LEGISLATION LIKE YOU CAN BE ILLITERATE NOW IN THIRD GRADE AND STILL PROMOTED TO FOURTH GRADE.

LET'S GET RID OF THE GRADING OF SCHOOL BUILDINGS.

SEEM LIKE NO STANDING.

>> I DON'T ACCEPT THE PREMISE OF THIS ARGUMENT.

WE STILL EVACUATE STUDENT READING ON DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.

WE HAVE A SCHOOL ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM THAT'S APPROVED BY THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

THE A TO F WAS A POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT WAS THROWN IN DURING LAME DUCK SESSION.

WE SAW ACCOUNTABILITY FROM OUR EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS.

>> Tim: LET'S TALK ABOUT LONG-TERM FUNDING FOR SCHOOLS WHICH YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.

IF YOU REMEMBER PROPOSAL A, VOTERS GOT A CHOICE ON HOW TO FUND THE SCHOOLS.

IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES TO CREATE THE SAME KIND OF SITUATION WITH REGARD TO RAISING THE SALES TAX ON SERVICES?

>> I KNOW I'M HAVING CONVERSATIONS.

SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES IN THE EDUCATION COMMUNITY ARE THERE.

WE ARE CONCERNED GREATLY ABOUT THE CONTINUAL EROSION OF THE BUYING POWER OF THE SCAD AIL FUND.

YOU HEAR FROM LAWMAKERS THAT IT'S THE BIGGEST EDUCATION BUDGET.

WHEN THAT'S TECHNICALLY TRUE WHEN YOU LOOK AT REAL NUMBERS, WE ARE ONE OF THE WORST IN THE COUNTRY FOR REVENUES AND KEEPING UP WITH INFLATION.

WHILE THE REAL NUMBER IS BIGGER THAN LAST YEAR, ONE DOLLAR IS THE BIGGEST EDUCATION BUDGET IF YOU DO THAT INCREASE.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INFLATION AND BUYING POWER, WE'RE DOWN.

EVERY YEAR WE SEE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF TAX PROPOSALS THAT ELIMINATE REVENUE FOR THE GENERAL FUND OR THE SCHOOL AID FUND.

WHILE WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO PROP THAT UP, IT'S MOSTLY BEEN FROM DECLINING ENROLLMENT AND RECOVERY FROM THE SCHNEIDER ERA $470 PER PUPIL CUT.

WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT LONG-TERM REVENUE.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S DONE CORRECTLY.

2018, WE WERE PART OF A GROUP THAT ISSUED THE SCHOOL FINANCE RESEARCH COLLABORATIVE SCHOOL FUNDING PROPOSAL.

IT PROPOSED A MORE EQUITABLE AND ADEQUATE FUNDING SYSTEM.

IT SHOWED THAT WE ARE THREE TO $4 MILLION UNDER FUNDED.

>> Tim: YOU'RE GOING TO LAWMAKERS AND SAY IN THE LEGISLATURE, VOTE TO MOVE THE SALES TAX TO SERVICES?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE OPTIONS THAT WE'VE PROPOSED.

>> Tim: IF THEY SAY, DO YOU THINK WE ARE CRAZY, THEN YOU SAY TO THEM -- >> I THINK IT'S TIME THE LEGISLATURE TO ACT ON REVENUE.

I'M NOT IN THE MINORITY.

YOU SAW THE GOVERNOR PUT TOGETHER THIS COUNCIL TO GROW MICHIGAN'S POPULATION.

WE CAN'T TO THAT WITH THE REVENUE PIE THAT WE HAVE NOW.

WE'VE GOT ROADS THAT NEED DESPERATE REPAIR, WE GOT AN EDUCATION SYSTEM THAT IS UNDERFUNDED WHEN YOU ADJUST FOR INFLATION.

WE GOT SERVICES THAT ARE NOT BEING TAKEN CARE OF.

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE STRUGGLING.

YOU CAN'T GROW THIS STATE WITHOUT MORE REVENUE TO PROVIDE SERVICES.

>> Tim: YOUR PLAN B IF THEY SAY NO.

>> WE SAW THAT STRATEGY NAIL 2015 WHEN THE LEGISLATURE PUT BEFORE THE PEOPLE ONE PROPOSAL DO YOU WANT TO RAISE TAXES.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WAYS TO RAISE MORE REVENUE FOR VITAL SERVICES, TIME AFTER TIME I READ, VOTERS VOTE YES TO FUND THEIR SCHOOLS.

>> PROPOSAL A WAS CRISIS MANAGEMENT BECAUSE THE OPTIONS WERE SALES TAX OR PROPERTY TAX OR LOSING SCHOOL FUNDING.

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT BUT THE LEGISLATURE CREATED A CRISIS.

THAT CHOICE WAS BASED ON CRISIS REACTION.

>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

I DON'T HAVE THE DETAILS.

THEY ALLOWED VOTERS TO CHOOSE BETWEEN ONE TAX POLICY OR ANOTHER.

THEY ELIMINATED THE PROPERTY TAXES ON SCHOOL FUNDING IN EXCHANGE FOR AN INCOME TAX INCREASE.

>> DON'T HAVE THAT GOING FOR YOU UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN MIND.

>> WE'RE ABOUT TO RUN OUT OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FEDERAL FUND.

WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUTTHE REVENUE.

THIS YEAR ALONE, WE SAW OVER A BILLION DOLLARS IN TAX CUTS TO REVENUE.

>> YOU'RE SAYING LACK OF MONEY IS A REASON WHY THERE'S SO MANY ROTTEN K12 PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN MICHIGAN?

LOOK AT FLINT.

>> I WOULD NEVER SAY THEY ARE ROTTEN K12 SCHOOLS.

>> HOW ABOUT FLINT, THE BIGGEST CITY IN GENESEE COUNTY, 80,000 PEOPLE.

THEY GOT 3500 NOW.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

IT'S THE SEVENTH BIGGEST SCHOOL DISTRICT IN GENESEE COUNTY.

YOU GOT FLINT, FLUSHING, ALL BIGGER THAN FLINT.

NOBODY WANTS TO GO TO FLINT PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

CHARTER SCHOOLS, HOME SCHOOLING, PRIVATE SCHOOLS, SCHOOL CHOICE IN PARTICULAR.

WE'VE GOT CRISIS IN LOT OF THESE SCHOOLS.

ARE YOU SAYING JUST PUT MORE MONEY IN FLINT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INVESTING -- >> JUST FLINT BY ITSELF?

>> WHAT MY ORGANIZATION IS AIMING FOR IS ADEQUATE BASE FUNDING.

NOT EVERY STUDENT NEED THE SAME AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT TO BE SUCCESSFUL UNDER MICHIGAN'S SCHOOL POLICIES.

THAT TALKS ABOUT ADDING INVESTMENTS FOR POVERTY, WHICH ALL THREE OF THE BUDGETS BEFORE US DO.

TALKS ABOUT FUNDING STUDENTS THAT ARE ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS AND MORE ADEQUATELY FUNDING SPECIAL EDUCATION AND HIGH INTENSITY PRESCHOOL.

WE DON'T DO THAT HERE IN THE CONSTI--STATE OF MICHIGAN.

WE'RE STILL ABOUT A $1000, $1500 UNDER THE RECOMMENDED FOUNDATIONAL.

WE'RE NOWHERE NEAR ADEQUATE TO DO EQUITABLE EDUCATION.

FLINT IS UNDERSERVINGED BY THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT EXPANDING SALES TAX, HOW IS YOU PITCHED THAT TO MICHIGAN PATIENT WHO MA- MICHIGAN PARENTS WHO MAY BE STRUGGLING WITH INFLATION AND RECESSION JUST PROVIDING FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND ALSO WANT THEIR CHILDREN TO GET A QUALITY EDUCATION.

>> YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THE WAY YOU IMPLEMENT TAX POLICY.

YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S FAIR AND IT'S EQUITABLE.

THE SALES TAX ON SERVICE IS ONE WAY TO LOOKING AT ADDING REVENUE.

LOT OF STATES DO IT.

YOU GO TO THE MOVIE THEATER, YOU PAY SALES TAX ON A CANDY BUT NOT ON THE TICKETS.

LOT OF FOLKS DON'T KNOW THAT.

I DIDN'T KNOW IT UNTIL I STARTED GETTING IN THE TAX POLICY SIDE OF THINGS.

IN A WAY, WE'VE HEARD PEOPLE SUGGESTING ADDING ANOTHER PENNY.

THAT'S FAR MORE AGGRESSIVE.

THOSE ARE ITEMS FOLKS WITH LOWER INCOME ARE PURCHASING.

THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THOSE WILL BE.

THERE'S A STRATEGY TO DO IT THAT'S EQUITABLE AND FAIR BUT ALSO SETS UP THE REVENUE STREAM.

WE WERE FORTUNATE DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS.

OUR ECONOMY SHIFTED BACK TO A GOODS-BASED ECONOMY.

WE SAW INCREASES IN SALES TAX REVENUE.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED IN 2007 WHEN THE LEGISLATURE DID THAT?

>> I WAS WORKING THEN.

THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT COMPLIANCE.

I TALKED TO LOT OF FOLKS IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

>> THEY HAD TO REPEAL IT RIGHT AWAY.

>> THEY DID OF DID REPEAL IT.

I TALKED A LOT IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

TECHNOLOGY HAS COME A LONG WAY.

WHEN YOU GO TO THE HAIR SALON TO GET YOUR HAIRCUT, YOU PURCHASE HAIR SPRAY OR GEL OR WHATEVER, YOU PAY SALES TAX ON THAT.

THE PERSON RUNNING THE IT, THERE'S NO SALES TAX ON THE SERVICE.

>> DO YOU THINK NOW BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS GOING TO BE EAGER TO HAVE A SALES TAX?

>> I WOULDN'T SAY EAGER.

I THINK THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE RECEPTIVE TO THE LACK OF HURDLES.

>> WOULD YOU RATHER SEE THE LEGISLATURE PUT THIS ON THE BALLOT OR IF YOU DO A PETITION DRIVE, YOU GET A HEAD START AND SELLING?

>> I WOULD RATHER SEE THE LEGISLATURE WORK ON THIS.

I THINK WE ELECT PEOPLE TO MAKE POLICY.

THEY ARE COMFORTABLE VOTING ON TAX POME PO -- POLICY WHEN IT CS TO CUTTING REVENUE.

LIKE TO SOW THE LEGISLATURE GET INVOLVED AND BE PROACTIVE.

WE'RE GOING TO FACE A PROBLEM WHEN THE FEDERAL FUNDS RUN OUT.

THAT'S FACT >> Tim: WHERE ARE YOU IN THE TALKS.

OBVIOUSLY VERY PRELIMINARY?

>> VERY PRELIMINARY.

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS AS AN EDUCATION COMMUNITY.

SINCE 2018, VERY STRONGLY TALKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE OF THE FINANCE STUDY THAT CAME OUT.

WE'VE HAD PRELIMINARY CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS ON THE ISLAND, PEOPLE ARE RECEPTIVE OF THE IDEA.

>> Tim: WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER THE FUNDRAISERS?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> I DIDN'T GO ANY THIS YEAR.

>> THIS IS THE DETROIT REGIONAL CHAMBER CONFERENCE.

>> HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT IT.

PEOPLE LIKE THE IDEA.

I THINK LAWMAKERS, PARTICULARLY THE NEW CAUCUS ARE INTERESTED IN FUNDING SCHOOLS.

WE GOT TO GET SERIOUS ABOUT PUTTING PEN TO PAPER.

I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE ALL THE DECISIONS.

THERE'S A POLITICAL DECISION TO BE MADE.

>> WE DO WANT TO GET SERIOUS ABOUT IT.

BECAUSE THE POPULATION COMMISSION IS SERIOUS WORK.

WE CAN'T ATTRACT RESIDENTS IF WE DON'T HAVE SERVICES.

>> Tim: JUST WALKS RIGHT INTO THE LANGUAGE THAT THE REPUBLICANS SAID ALL COMMISSION IS ABOUT IS RAISING TAXES.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARILY TRUE.

I THINK WE HAVE LOT OF POLICIES WE CAN LOOK AT TO ENTICE BUSINESSES AND ENTICE PEOPLE ENTICE FAMILIES TO MOVE HERE.

>> Tim: THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN, 50/50.

>> BETTER THAN 50/50.

>> Tim: THANK YOU, WE GOT TO GO.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE MR. SPADAFORE.

TUNE IN NEXT WEEK FOR MORE "OFF THE RECORD" RIGHT HERE.

♪ PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD" IS MADE IN PART BY -- FOR MORE "OFF THE RECORD" VISIT WKAR.ORG.