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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP TODAY WAS FOUND GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS IN HIS CRIMINAL HUSH MONEY TRIAL.

WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT LEGAL AND POLITICAL ASPECTS OF THIS HISTORIC JURY VERDICT.

THAT'S NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP TODAY WAS FOUND GUILTY ON ALL 3 4 CHARGES OF FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TIED TO A HUSH MONEY PAYMENT TO A PORN ACTRESS BEFORE THE 2016 ELECTION.

THE 12 PERSON JURY CAME BACK WITH A VERDICT AT THE END OF THE SECOND DAY OF DELIBERATIONS.

DONALD TRUMP IS NOW A CONVICTED FELON.

THE ONLY FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT CONVICTED OF FELONY CHARGES.

TRUMP WAS RELEASED AFTER THE VERDICT, NO BAIL INVOLVED.

A SENTENCING DATE SET FOR THE MORNING OF JULY 11.

FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE START OF THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION.

AFTER THE VERDICT, TRUMP CALLED HIMSELF, QUOTE, A VERY INNOCENT MAN, AND THE PROCEEDINGS A, QUOTE, RIGGED TRIAL AND A DISGRACE.

JOINING US IS ROY HERRERA, FORMER ASSISTANT ATTORNEY AND FOUNDING PARTNER OF HERRERA ARELLANO LAW FIRM AND MARK KOKANOVICH FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT ATTORNEY, NOT GENERAL, FROM LAW FIRM OF BALLARD AND SPAHR.

ROY, START WITH YOU, GUILTY, NO SPLIT VERDICT.

A SLAM-DUNK.

WERE YOU SURPRISED?

>> NOT REALLY, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUST NOTE THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM WORKED THE WAY IT SHOULD, RIGHT?

WE HAVE THE PROSECUTION WHO HAS TO PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT THE DEFENDANT IS GUILTY, THE DEFENDANT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND HIMSELF AND THE JURY AGREED WITH THE PROSECUTION THAT HE COMMITTED THESE CRIMES.

AM I SURPRISED?

NOT REALLY.

I MEAN, I THINK, AND WE'LL PROBABLY GET INTO THE SPECIFICS OF THE DEFENSE STRATEGY HERE VERSUS THE PROSECUTION STRATEGY HERE, BUT I THINK THAT THERE WERE SOME FLAWS IN WHAT THE DEFENSE TRIED TO DO HERE, AND AGAIN, IT DIDN'T SURPRISE ME, THE TESTIMONY FROM SOME OF THE WITNESSES LIKE MICHAEL COHEN WAS PRETTY GOOD FOR THE PROSECUTION, SO AS A RESULT, THIS WASN'T REALLY A SURPRISING OUTCOME.

TED: BUT AGAIN, MARK, YOU HAVE 12 JURORS, 34 COUNTS, IT'S A RELATIVELY, I THOUGHT, A RELATIVELY COMPLICATED CASE, THE PROSECUTION NARROWED THINGS DOWN HERE.

NOT A SPLIT VERDICT, NOT ONE PERSON WAVERING.

I WAS SURPRISED, ARE YOU SURPRISED?

>> IT'S A -- IT WAS CORROBORATED WITH DOCUMENTS AND PHONE CALLS AND PHOTOGRAPHS, YOU KNOW, THE DEFENSE STRATEGY, AS ROY ALLUDED TO AS WELL, WAS QUESTIONABLE, AND I THINK SOME OF THAT HAD TO DO WITH THE DEFENDANT.

YOU KNOW, ARGUING THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH STORMY DANIELS NEVER HAPPENED, PROBABLY NOT THE STRATEGY TO TAKE WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH CREDIBILITY, AND WHY ARE YOU PAYING SOMEONE $130,000 IF NOTHING HAPPENED?

THOSE ARE HARD THINGS TO STOLE A JURY, AND JURIES, IN MY EXPERIENCE, ARE RELATIVELY WISE, AND WE HAVE A SPECIAL, YOU KNOW, SYSTEM OF JUSTICE IN THIS COUNTRY, AND IN THIS CASE, I THINK IT WORKED RELATIVELY WELL AND RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

TED: ROY, WHAT HAPPENED HERE WAS HE WAS FOUND -- ALL THE COUNTS, FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS, HAVING EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIR, FLING, WHATEVER IT WAS.

THAT'S NOT WHAT HE WAS CHARGED WITH.

HE WAS TRYING WITH, IT'S ALWAYS A COVER-UP, ISN'T IT?

>> WELL, IT IS.

THIS IS A SOMEWHAT NOVEL LEGAL THEORY BY THE PROSECUTION, THE FALSIFICATION OF BUSINESS RECORDS CHARGED IN NEW YORK STATE A MISDEMEANOR AND BECAME A FELONY BECAUSE IT WAS DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH ANOTHER CRIME, THE OTHER CRIME VIOLATION OF CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS BECAUSE THIS IS RELATED TO PAYING HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS SO THE STORY WOULD GO AWAY ON THE EVE OF THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

THAT'S WHAT MADE THIS A FELONY.

THAT'S WHY HE'S A CONVICTED FELON AND FACING UP TO FOUR YEARS IN PRISON BECAUSE OF THIS GUILTY VERDICT.

TED: WELL, AND AGAIN, AS FAR AS THAT IS CONCERNED, THE TIMING OF IT, I THINK IT WAS NOTED BY THE PROSECUTION THAT THE AFFAIR HAPPENED IN 2006 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES BUT THE MONEY PAYMENT WASN'T MADE UNTIL THE EVE OF THE ELECTION.

YOU CAN'T MAKE IT ANY MORE CLEARER THAN THAT, CAN YOU?

>> IT'S PRETTY DAMNING, I TOTALLY AGREE, TED.

THE EVIDENCE WAS VERY STRONG, AND THE FACT THAT YOU GET JURORS THAT BOTH PARTIES WERE ABLE TO HAVE INPUT INTO WHO THE JURY WAS GOING TO BE.

THEY WERE JURIES OF THEIR PEERS AND YOU GOT A JUDGE OVERSEEING THIS, INSTRUCTING THE JURY, AND THEY CAME TO A QUICK CONCLUSION ON ALL 34 COUNTS.

TED: AS FAR AS THE JURY WANTING TO REHEAR THE JUDGE'S INSTRUCTIONS.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> RELATIVELY COMMON.

LOT OF JURISDICTIONS THE JURY IS ABLE TO GET A COPY OF THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS.

IN NEW YORK, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT'S NOT THE CASE, AND THEY HAD TO PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION, AND THOSE ARE VERY COMPLICATED INSTRUCTIONS.

AS A LAWYER, IT'S DIFFICULT TO PARSE EXACTLY WHAT THE ELEMENTS OF THE OFFENSE ARE, BUT THAT'S WHAT THOSE ARE FOR, AND THEY WERE TAKING THEIR JOB SERIOUSLY, AND I THINK MOST JURIES DO.

TED: THE OTHER NOTE THE JURY WANTED IS REHEAR THE TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL COHEN, AND THE PUBLISHER, THE FORMER PUBLISHER OF THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER.

WHAT DID THAT TELL YOU?

>> AGAIN, GOES BACK TO THE QUESTION WHETHER I WAS SURPRISED OR NOT.

THE FACT THAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR BACK THE TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL COHEN, DESPITE THE DEFENSE EFFORTS TO MAKE MICHAEL COHEN SEEM UNTRUSTWORTHY.

HE HELD UP ON CROSS-EXAMINATION PRETTY WELL, FROM WHAT I SAW, AND WAS A CREDIBLE WITNESS FROM WHAT I SAW, AND CLEARLY I THINK THE JURY BELIEVED THAT.

THE MOMENT THEY ASKED FOR THAT TESTIMONY ALONG WITH THE FACT WE GOT A VERDICT WITHIN TWO DAYS OF THE CLOSING OF TRIAL SIGNALED TO ME THE MOMENT I KNEW THE JURY WAS COMING BACK WITH THE VERDICT, IT WAS GOING TO BE GUILTY.

TED: TRUMP'S DEFENSE, DID YOU THINK IT WAS WISE NOT TO TAKE THE STAND?

>> I THINK IT WOULD BE DISASTROUS FOR DONALD TRUMP TO TAKE THE STAND.

TED: REALLY?

>> YES.

MOST LAWYERS COUNSEL CLIENTS NOT TO TAKE THE STAND.

DONALD TRUMP WOULD BE A HORRIBLE WITNESS, HORRIBLE.

TED: WHAT DOES IT MEAN NOW?

IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN ONE DAY INSTEAD OF TWO DAYS?

CAN'T GET WORSE THAN THAT.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

IT CAN GET WORSE IN TERMS OF SENTENCING.

IF A DEFENDANT TAKES THE STAND AND LIES WHILE THEY'RE ON THE STAND, THAT'S ITSELF A CRIME, COMMITTING PERJURY, AND THAT'S A RISK FOR HIM.

TED: THAT ALL OR NOTHING DEFENSE ON MICHAEL COHEN, THOUGH, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE JURY BELIEVED WHAT THEY HEARD FROM MICHAEL COHEN.

WAS THERE NO PLAN B WITH THE DEFENSE?

>> IT DIDN'T SEEM THAT WAY.

OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD A VERY AGGRESSIVE CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MICHAEL COHEN AS WELL AS STORMY DANIELS.

BOTH OF THEM HELD UP RELATIVELY WELL.

THEY TRIED TO GET MICHAEL COHEN TO SHOW HE HAD SOME SORT OF REASON TO LIE HERE ABOUT WHAT OCCURRED, THAT OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T HAPPEN.

THE SAME THING WITH STORMY DANIELS, TRIED TO GET INTO HER PAST AND SORT OF MAKE HER SEEM LIKE SHE WASN'T TRUSTWORTHY BECAUSE OF PRIOR PROFESSION.

THINGS LIKE THAT, AND BOTH OF THE WITNESSES HELD UP PRETTY WELL, WHICH I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONCE THAT HAPPENED PUT DONALD TRUMP IN A PRESIDENT BAD POSITION.

I ALSO WILL SAY, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH MY FRIEND MARK HERE, WHICH IS THEIR EMPHASIS ON THE IDEA THAT THE ACTUAL AFFAIR DIDN'T OCCUR IS A REAL MISTAKE, BECAUSE IT WAS CLEAR FROM THE TESTIMONY AND THE EVIDENCE THAT IT DID OCCUR AND THE QUESTION IS WAS THERE A CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATION HERE OR NOT?

THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE FOCUSED ON.

TED: WAS THE DEFENSE FOCUSED ON AN APPEAL?

DID THEY KNOW THEY WERE SUNK HERE AND WERE THEY WORKING TOWARD THE FUTURE?

>> I DON'T KNOW, IT CAN BE DIFFICULT AS A DEFENSE ATTORNEY TO GET OUTSIDE OF YOUR BUBBLE, AND ESPECIALLY WITH A CLIENT LIKE THAT, CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT TO MANAGE YOUR CLIENT.

I THINK YOU SAW THAT IN THE REPORTING THAT THE CLIENT WAS FALLING ASLEEP AT COUNSEL TABLE, AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE STRATEGIES THEY TOOK.

LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE PLAYING NOT TO THE JURY BUT TO THEIR CLIENT, AND THAT'S ALWAYS A LOSING STRATEGY.

TED: THAT BUSINESS OF FALLING ASLEEP, THE BUSINESS OF ATTACKING THE JUDGE, AGAIN, WE HAD PAUL CHARLTON U.S. ATTORNEY HERE, THE JURIES, THEY LIKE THE JUDGE, THEY TRUST THE JUDGE.

THEY DON'T LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF THE JUDGE OR ABUSIVE TOWARD THE JUDGE.

WAS THAT A FACTOR?

>> THE JURY IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM IN TERMS OF THE NEWS REPORTING, BUT THAT ANTIPATHY AND THE MISTAKES MADE BY THE DEFENSE IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS SAID DURING CLOSING ARGUMENTS REGARDING THE NOT SENDING A MAN TO PRISON BASED ON MICHAEL COHEN'S TESTIMONY, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT ROY SAID TOO, ABOUT MICHAEL COHEN HOLDING UP RELATIVELY WELL.

GOING AFTER THE LAWYER THAT YOUR CLIENT CHOSE TO BE HIS LAWYER AS A SCUMBAG IS ALSO A VERY DIFFICULT ARGUMENT BECAUSE AS PROSECUTORS ALWAYS SAY, WHEN THERE'S A CONSPIRACY LIKE THIS, THAT WE DIDN'T CHOOSE THAT PERSON.

THE PERSON THAT CHOSE, AND THEY PUT IT ESPECIALLY WELL IN THIS CASE.

WE DIDN'T GO TO THE WITNESS STORE TO CHOOSE MICHAEL COHEN.

DONALD TRUMP CHOSE MICHAEL COHEN BECAUSE HE KNEW MICHAEL COHEN WAS A SCUMBAG AND NOT GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH.

TED: INTERESTING.

SENTENCING JULY 11.

FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION.

COULD THAT BE MOVED?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE ALL THE PARTIES WERE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT DATE.

THE REAL QUESTION IS, IN A NORMAL WORLD, IF HE GETS PRISON TIME, REMANDED TO PRISON IMMEDIATELY?

I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THIS CASE BECAUSE HE'S GOT TO GO TO THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION AND RUN A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

IF THERE IS PRISON TIME, HE COULD ALSO GET PROBATION, IF THERE IS PRISON TIME, LIKELY TO START AT A LATER DATE, AND THAT WILL BE WORKED OUT.

TED: WHO DECIDES THE SENTENCING, THE JUDGE?

JURY?

>> THE JUDGE.

TED: IT IS THE JUDGE.

OKAY.

FACTORS LIKE -- JUDGE DID KNOW WHAT DONALD TRUMP SAID.

THE JUDGE WAS AWARE OF HIS BEHAVIOR WHEN THE JURY WAS OUT OF THERE, DOES THAT FACTOR INTO SENTENCEING?

>> THINK IT DOES AND I THINK IT RIGHTLY DOES.

WHAT YOU CONSIDER AT SENTENCING OR JUDGES ARE SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER AT SENTENCING ARE THE FACTORS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE CRIME THAT WAS THE CRIME OF CONVICTION, IN THIS CASE 34 COUNTS AND THE OTHER FACTORS ARE THE INDIVIDUAL FACTORS OF THE DEFENDANT AND WHETHER THIS DEFENDANT POSES THE LIKELIHOOD OF REOFFENDING, AND THIS JUDGE GAVE VERY STERN WARNINGS TO THE DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE, FORMER PRESIDENT, TO NOT SAY THINGS OUT OF SCHOOL, AND NOT SAY THINGS OUT OF COURT ABOUT THE WITNESSES AND ABOUT THE JUDGE AND ABOUT THE JUDGE'S FAMILY.

IN THIS CASE, DONALD TRUMP WAS ATTACKING NOT JUST THE JUDGE BUT THE JUDGE'S DAUGHTER.

THAT DOESN'T PLAY WELL, AND DOESN'T SHOW SORT OF SOMEONE WHO'S LEARNED THEIR LESSON ABOUT HAVING THEIR FIRST EXPERIENCE IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

TED: FIRST-TIME, NONVIOLENT CRIMINAL DOES, THAT PLAY?

AGAIN, NO REMORSE, NO REGRET BUT FIRST-TIME NONVIOLENT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

IS HE GOING TO GET PRISON TIME?

>> SO THAT'S ANOTHER FACTOR, AS MARK MENTIONED IN THE SENTENCING, PRIOR CRIMINAL HISTORY WHICH DONALD TRUMP HAS NO PRIOR CRIMINAL HISTORY.

THE JUDGE HAS GONE OUT OF HIS WAY IN APPEARING TO BE PAIR, UNDERSTANDS THE LARGER IMPLICATIONS OF THE CASE.

FOR THINGS LIKE THE GAG ORDER THAT VERY CLEARLY DONALD TRUMP VIOLATED MULTIPLE TIMES DURING THE TRIAL.

IN A NORMAL CASE, THE DEFENDANT WOULD PROBABLY BE THROWN INTO JAIL FOR THOSE VIOLATIONS.

THE JUDGE DIDN'T DO THAT, LARGELY BECAUSE HE'S TRYING TO APPEAR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE GIVEN THE PUBLIC NATURE OF THE CASE, TO BE CARE.

I DON'T THINK BEING COMBATIVE WITH THE JUDGE AND OTHER THINGS ARE GOING TO PLAY A FACTOR HERE.

THE JUDGE IS GOING TO MAKE IT SEEM IT'S NOT A FACTOR HERE AND STICK TO WHAT HE HAS TO UNDER THE SENTENCING RULES.

TED: IS THE GAG ORDER STILL IN PLACE?

>> I BELIEVE SO, THROUGH SENTENCING.

TED: THROUGH SENTENCING?

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

LAST QUESTION, GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE.

AND MARK LET YOU TAKE THIS ONE.

DO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW HISTORIC THIS DAY IS?

THIS IS A FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT, CRIMINALLY CONVICTED.

>> IT IS REMARKABLE.

IT TAKES MY BREATH AWAY IN A LOT OF WAYS THAT WE'RE SITTING HERE, AND HE'S THE ANTICIPATED NOMINEE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

HE'S NOW A CONVICTED FELON, AND HE'S AWAITING SENTENCING ON THESE VERY LURID CHARGES, AS YOU OUTLINED, RELATING TO FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES OF CHARACTER, AND AS THE PROSECUTION POINTED OUT IN THEIR CLOSING, THIS ISN'T JUST A MATTER OF WHITE COLLAR, RUN OF THE MILL OFFENSE, BUT THIS IS AN OFFENSE THAT POSSIBLY HELPED HIM GET THE PRESIDENCY, BY KEEPING THIS VERY LURID STORY OUT OF THE NEWS AT THE TIME, AND WHAT A DIFFERENT WORLD WE WOULD BE IN HAD HE NOT WON IN 2016.

TED: LEGAL MINDS, MARK KOKANOVICH AND ROY HERRERA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

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TED: WE CONTINUE OUR COVERAGE OF TODAY'S HISTORIC VERDICT AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP FOUND GUILTY ON ALL 34 FELONY COUNTS OF FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TIED TO A HUSH MONEY PAYMENT TO A PORN ACTRESS BEFORE THE 2016 ELECTION.

WE LOOKED AT THE LEGAL ASPECTS BUT WHAT ABOUT THE POLITICAL FALLOUT?

WE WELCOME CHUCK COUGHLIN OF HIGHGROUND.

POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS OF ALL THIS?

>> WE KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE A CLOSE ELECTION.

THAT'S TRUE.

SO THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THIS ON THAT VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE ELECTORATE THAT'S OUT THERE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A COMMITTED POSITION ON THIS RACE YET IS INTERESTING.

FROM A PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND, YOU KNOW, THE OLD LINE IS ALL PUBLICITY IS GOOD UNLESS IT'S FOLLOWED BY CONVICTED OR INDICTED, WELL, YOU GOT 34 CONVICTIONS TODAY.

THAT'S NOT GREAT.

TED: DOES IT RAMP UP THE ANGER AND THE DIVISION IN POLITICS?

DOES IT ADD FUEL?

>> UNDOUBTEDLY.

IT WILL BE A TRUMP STRATEGY TO MILK THIS IN WHAT THEY CALL HARD CORE REPUBLICAN PRECINCTS.

YOU'D WANT TO IDENTIFY NONTRADITIONAL VOTERS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PARTICIPATING HISTORICALLY IN THE PROCESS, AND MAKE THEM BELIEVE, AS HE WILL ARTICULATE THAT THIS IS ALL A RUSE, A SETUP, PART OF THE GAME, AND YOU NEED TO HELP ME STOP THIS.

I'M A MARTYR.

TED: HE SAID AFTER THE VERDICT, HE'S TRYING TO LINK THIS TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

>> OH, YEAH.

TED: FIRST OF ALL, DOES THAT MESSAGE HIT, AND WILL THAT MESSAGE START TO FADE OVER TIME?

>> I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO LET IT.

LIKE YOU JUST SAID A SECOND AGO, THE SENTENCING IS GOING TO BE FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, SO HE'S GOING TO RIDE THIS.

HE'S GOING TO USE THIS THROUGHOUT THE CYCLE TO TRY AND DRIVE THAT BASE VOTER TURNOUT AND TO TURN OUT PEOPLE WHO ARE TRADITIONALLY NONAFFILIATED VOTERS, WHO BUY INTO THIS EVERYTHING IS CORRUPT, EVERYTHING IS BAD NARRATIVE WHICH, YOU KNOW, HAS HELPED HIM SUBSTANTIALLY.

TED: SO THAT'S HOW HE RESPONDS, THE JUDGE IS BIAS, A JURY IS BIAS, PROSECUTION IS BIAS, EVERYONE IS BIAS, THEY'RE ALL AGAINST ME.

WE GET THAT, BUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN GENERAL, HOW DOES THE PARTY RESPOND?

>> WELL, I SAW A POST FROM KAREN TAYLOR, FULLY ON THE TRUMP SIDE, FULLY ENGAGED IN PARROTING HIS NARRATIVE.

TODAY'S REPUBLICAN PARTY IS DONALD TRUMP'S REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT'S A GANG, THE MAGA GANG, AND THEY'RE HERE AND THEY OCCUPY THAT POWER OF SPACE.

I WOULDN'T EXPECT ANY DETERIORATION FROM THE GOP BASE AT THIS POINT.

I WOULD EXPECT THEM TO FOLLOW EXACTLY WHAT TRUMP'S COMMENTS WERE TODAY.

TED: PRESUMPTIVE CANDIDATE IS A CONVICTED FELON, LET'S RAISE THE BANNER HIGH.

>> YES, IT'S ALL SET UP AGAINST ME, I'M A MARTYR.

THIS IS ALL THE DEMOCRATS AND BIG GOVERNMENT AND THE DEEP STATE TRYING TO COME AFTER YOUR GUY.

TED: HOW DO DEMOCRATS DEAL WITH THIS?

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S A BIG QUESTION.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALMOST SO MUCH INFORMATION HERE THAT THE DEMOCRATS CAN USE.

I THINK WHAT WE WILL END UP SEEING IS A LOT OF THIS.

WE'LL SEE A LOT OF THIS IN THE PAID NARRATIVE OF THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT'S GOING TO BE REALLY HELPFUL TO THEM.

IF I WERE THEM, WHAT I WOULD BE DOING IS TALKING ABOUT A BETTER AMERICA.

I WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT A BETTER PROMISE FOR AMERICA THAT OUR ECONOMY IS GOING STRONG, OUR COUNTRY IS GREAT, OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS SECOND TO NONE IN THE WORLD.

I WOULD HIT ALL OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT AMERICA.

TED: BUT OTHER THAN THAT, MRS. LINCOLN, HOW DID YOU LIKE THE PLAY?

YOU ARE RUNNING AGAINST A CONVICTED FELON.

>> AND WE ALL KNOW IT.

TED: IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T PILE ON.

>> I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE PART OF THE MEDIA NARRATIVE.

IT'S GOING TO BE PART OF HIS NARRATIVE.

IT CAN BE LIKE A -- IT CAN BE AN INTRO AND MAYBE A BIT OF AN EXIT, BUT CAN'T BE THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE.

IF I WANT TO BE A SUCCESSFUL DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN, I GOT TO GIVE THE -- REMEMBER WHO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, TALKING ABOUT THE VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE ELECTORATE THAT IS YET TO DECIDE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE ON THIS.

SO I WANT TO TALK TO THEM.

I WANT TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THEIR LIFE, WHAT THEY WANT AND HOW I CAN HELP THEM GET THAT.

TED: TALKING INDEPENDENTS HERE?

>> INDEPENDENTS, YOUNGER VOTERS.

TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO AREN'T SUPER HIGH EFFICACY VOTERS.

NOT ME AND YOU, NOT MOST OF YOUR LISTENERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING THIS SHOW.

IT'S GOING TO BE LOW-PROPENSITY VOTERS WHO TYPICALLY TURN OUT IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

REMEMBER A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TYPICALLY GETS A 15-POINT BUMP IN TURNOUT OVER A MIDTERM ELECTION, A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION, LARGELY BECAUSE YOUNGER VOTERS TURN OUT AND SURROUND THOSE OF US WHO ALWAYS TURN OUT.

TED: I SHOULD MENTION THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN, LIKE MINUTES AFTER THE VERDICT, THE CAMPAIGN RELEASED A STATEMENT, CONVICTED FELON OR NOT, TRUMP WILL BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT.

>> YEAH.

TED: THAT'S AS FAR AS YOU GO ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> I THINK AT THIS JUNCTURE, I WOULD.

I WOULD TREAD IT CAREFULLY RIGHT NOW.

YOU GOT A LOT OF TIME.

A LOT OF TIME TO FIGURE OUT HOW THIS ROLLS OUT.

THE NEWS MEDIA CYCLE LIKE WE'RE SITTING IN RIGHT NOW IS GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS AND RUNNING THIS NARRATIVE FOR SOME TIME WITHOUT HIS HELP.

SO IT'S PROBABLY GOOD FOR A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN TO SIT BACK AND WATCH HOW THE NARRATIVE PLAYS OUT, AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO CURATE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE.

TED: WE SHOULD TALK, CNN HAD POLL OF POLLS RELEASED TODAY AND BIDEN AND TRUMP WERE EVEN UP.

70% OF REGISTERED VOTERS SAID NOTHING WILL CHANGE THEIR VOTE.

THIS WAS BEFORE THE VERDICT.

BASICALLY IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, NOTHING WILL CHANGE MY VOTE.

>> MOST OF THE COUNTY IS LOCKED IN ON THIS.

THAT'S WHY WE SEE IN POLL AFTER POLL RIGHT NOW, THAT IT'S ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

IT'S ONE OR TWO POINTS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, DEPENDING ON THE OLD ADAGE, THE ONLY POLL THAT COUNTS IS THE ONE ON ELECTION DAY.

TED: RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> AND PLAY TO THAT POINT IN THE CYCLE.

PLAY THE LONG GAME HERE TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU FRAME THIS ISSUE ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CYCLE.

TED: WHAT ABOUT ARIZONA POLITICS.

START WITH THE U.S. SENATE RACE.

DOES THIS HELP OR HURT KARI LAKE?

>> UM, I WOULD SAY IT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY, AGAIN, TO TALK ABOUT THOSE NONTRADITIONAL VOTERS.

SO ARIZONA IS A GROWTH STATE.

WE HAVE A LOT OF NEW RESIDENTS MOVING IN HERE ALL THE TIME.

THEY ARE TYPICALLY NOT VOTERS.

THEY ARE TYPICALLY NOT HIGH-EFFICACY VOTERS.

IN A GROWTH STATE, WHAT YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO THINK ABOUT IS GETTING TO THOSE VOTERS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN PART OF THE ARIZONA POLITICAL EXPERIENCE TODAY, GET NEW REGISTRANTS, TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF VOTING AND SAY WE HAVE TO DEFEND HIM.

HE'S A MARTYR.

HE'S A -- YOU KNOW, HE'S THE SACRIFICIAL LAMB, HE'S HERE FOR YOU, THE NARRATIVE WE HEAR FROM TRUMP ALL THE TIME.

IF I'M HIM, I PLAY THE NARRATIVE IN THE HEAVILY REPUBLICAN PRECINCTS, HEAVILY REPUBLICAN COUNTIES WHERE YOU CAN DRIVE UP A NUMBER.

TED: AND THE GALLEGO CAMPAIGN SAYS AND DOES WHAT?

>> MAN, IF I'M REUBEN'S CAMPAIGN, I'M DOING THE SAME THING I'M DOING RIGHT NOW.

I'M TALKING ABOUT BOOTSTRAPS TO WHERE I AM TODAY STORY, SERVICE TO MY COUNTRY, I TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN DO BETTER FOR ARIZONA.

WHAT I CAN DO, AND WHAT I WILL DO FOR THE BETTERMENT OF ALL ARIZONANS.

TED: IS THIS SOMETHING THAT, FOR BOTH SIDES -- REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS RUNNING FOR OFFICE -- YOU DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO MENTION IT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE A LOW-GRADE FEVER, IT'S ALWAYS THERE.

>> LIKE THE COLOR OF THE PAINT IN THE ROOM, RIGHT?

IT'S THERE, AND IT'S GONNA BE THERE, AND YOU CAN PLAY WITH IT DEPENDING WHAT THE AUDIENCE IS DOING, WHAT DAY, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU COULD END THE SPEECH EASILY BY SAYING, WHO DO YOU WANT AS A LEADER?

DO YOU WANT A LEADER WHO WANTS TO DO X, Y AND Z OR SOMEBODY WHO HAS 34 FELONY COUNTS?

WALTER PAYTON HAS A BETTER RECORD AND HE'S NUMBER 34.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF JOKES YOU CAN MAKE ABOUT IT.

A LOT OF THINGS CAN YOU TALK ABOUT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT I'D DWELL ON IT AS PART OF MY HARD CORE PART OF MY NARRATIVE.

TED: STATE LEGISLATIVE RACES, DOES IT FACTOR AT ALL IN SOMETHING THAT LOCAL.

>> MAYBE A BIT, BUT IT'S ON THE MARGINS.

EVERYBODY IS RUNNING THEIR OWN CAMPAIGNS HERE.

EVERYBODY IS RUNNING IN THEIR OWN DISTRICT.

THEIR OWN DISTRICT MAKEUP.

ONLY FOUR OR FIVE SWING SEATS IN THE ENTIRE STATE EXPERIENCING A COMPETITIVE GENERAL ELECTION, THAT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE OVERALL TURNOUT IN THE CYCLE.

THE OTHER THING, I GOT A BILLBOARD FROM A FRIEND GOING MOST AMERICANS WOULD AGREE, AND WE'D VOTE TO CHANGE EVERYBODY FOR PRESIDENT.

WE WANT NONE OF THESE PEOPLE.

THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION IS, WHAT DOES THIS DO TO THE OVERALL TURNOUT?

TRUMP IS GOING TO USE IT TO TURN IT UP.

BIDEN IS GOING TO MAKE IT MORE ASPIRATIONAL.

WHAT DOES IT DO TO THE OVERALL TURNOUT?

WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE.

IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE PEOPLE GO, NONE OF THE ABOVE.

>> I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

>> I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR THE ABORTION RIGHTS INITIATIVE AND I'LL VOTE FOR SOME OF THESE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE BALLOT, I'M DONE HERE.

TED: AND OTHER THINGS ON THE BALLOT COULD BE AFFECTED.

LAST QUESTION ABOUT, A MINUTE OR SO LEFT HERE.

WE DON'T KNOW, WE'VE NEVER BEEN HERE, CHUCK, THIS IS THE PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AS A CONVICTED FELON.

>> BUST OUT THE POPCORN, TED.

IT'S THE FIRST RING OF THE CIRCLE TODAY.

IT GROWS MORE IN INTENSITY.

TED: YES, BUT IS IT SOMETHING THAT HISTORY BOOKS WILL -- SOMETHING THAT WE'LL LOOK BACK ON, OR IS HE SUCH AN ANOMALY, THIS SUCH AN ANOMALY THAT IT'S A SPEED BUMP AND WE'LL MOVE ON.

>> HAVE YOU PEOPLE THAT ARE BETTER AT HISTORY THAN ME.

ANDREW JACKSON AND THE IMPEACHMENTS THERE.

ALL THE STUFF DURING RECONSTRUCTION, ALL OF THE INTENSE PERIODS IN HISTORY WHERE THESE TYPES OF THINGS HAPPENED.

I PUT IT IN THAT, BUT THE STEROIDS WERE ON TODAY WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, THE MEDIA, THE 24-HOUR OR THE 10-SECOND MEDIA CYCLES WE'RE IN NOW, IT IS AMAZING TO SEE HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT.

I WANT TO KEEP EVERYBODY THINKING ABOUT WHO'S THIS REALLY GOING TO PLAY WITH AND HOW'S IT GOING TO PLAY?

THE CHEAP SEATS.

TED: CHUCK COUGHLIN, HIGHGROUND, GREAT INSIGHT.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE AS ALWAYS.

>> THANKS, TED.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

Support for Arizona.