(gentle solemn music) - I am Norm Silverstein.

Glad you're with us.

My company today is Justin Vigdor, a man who takes the phrase civic duty very seriously.

As senior counsel at Boylan Code LLP, Justin is well known, not just as an accomplished attorney, but as an innovator, a pioneer in legal practice and in community service.

Justin, thanks for being with us.

- It's really my pleasure, Norm.

- Justin, you've been involved in so many things in the Rochester area.

I just took it for granted you were a native, but I find out now you're from Downstate.

- That's true, I am from Downstate.

And in the minds of many natives, I will never be a native, although I have been here since 1954.

So, that makes for a long time in the minds of most people.

- Well, you were born in the Bronx.

- I was.

- And went to St. John's.

- I went to NYU, and then St. John's, and then NYU for a master's degree and educated in New York City.

- I know that you're involved in so many civic organizations, foundations, the list is very long.

But you actually, early in your career, you got involved in I think what people might say was public service when you went into the Army.

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

- Well, I went into the Army during the Korean conflict, and I was very fortunate.

I was granted a commission in the Judge Advocate General's Corps of the Army, and I had some extraordinary assignments.

I was at headquarters, first army on Governor's Island off Manhattan.

Then I was at the Judge Advocate General School in Charlottesville, Virginia.

And then I was sent to the Pentagon where I had the, really, the pleasure and the opportunity of working in the appellate division, appealing court-martial cases for convicted soldiers.

And it was a very challenging, very exciting time because they had just enacted the Uniform Code of Military Justice a year or so earlier.

Well, yeah, just about a year or so earlier, which was designed to remedy some of the abuses that occurred during the war.

- That's right.

This wasn't that long after World War II.

- No, that's right.

And that was designed to bring justice of a civilian nature in part to the military.

So there was very little precedent.

And there was a new court created, the Court of Military Appeals, which had the status of a US court of appeals, and we were able to argue four principles as precedent that would set a standard for the military.

And we had some very, very challenging opportunities to convince the court to adopt doctrines that in some instances the United States Supreme Court later adopted, such as Miranda case.

We got that adopted for the military before the Warren Court adopted it in the Supreme Court.

- [Norm] An important principle, explain it.

- Well, the Miranda principle was the fact that an accused had to be warned of his rights to remain silent before a confession was admissible in court.

And that advice had to be formally given and there had to be evidence that it was given, otherwise the confession could not be introduced and used against an accused.

That was an entirely new principle.

- You complete your military service, you go back to the New York area.

- No, I didn't.

Just in that final year of service, while I had a child, we were married and had an infant son, and we decided that we did not want to go back and raise a family in New York City.

So I had never been upstate really, but having been admitted to the New York Bar and in need of having a job, and that paid a salary, I decided I had to stay in New York because it would not be able, I would not be able to get compensated work without passing the bar in another state.

And that would take time.

So I decided I'd remain in New York state, and I did a little bit of research.

We didn't have Google at the time, of course, but we did have libraries.

And I reduced the choices to Syracuse and Rochester.

I didn't want a small town and I did not want Albany or Buffalo, so I chose either Syracuse or Rochester.

And I did a little research about both of them, and I had some leave time, and I had the privilege of being able to fly in a military aircraft.

So I flew up to the Syracuse, to Hancock Field, on a military plane, and I spent a day interviewing with law firms in Syracuse.

And then I came across on the New York Central, which was the predecessor, of course, of Amtrak.

And I spent a day interviewing in Rochester, and I went back to Washington and I said to my wife, "Both cities seem to be very livable and from whichever I get a job offer, that's where we're going to move."

And I got a job offer from Rochester first, and I accepted it and we moved to Rochester.

- And who gave you that job offer?

- Well, the name of the firm at that time was McFarland-Harris.

Yeah, long time ago, 1954.

So we moved to Rochester in end the August, 1954.

- Well, you almost immediately got involved in civic organizations.

- I did.

Yeah, I got involved very quickly in that.

And I've always had...

I've always had a feeling for that and a desire to do that.

And it was kind of a passion, so I had lots of fun doing that too.

- What was the first organization that you became involved with?

- Well, probably the first one was what is now the Mary Cariola Children's Center.

The predecessor of that was called, at that time, the Daycare Center for Handicapped Children.

And it was a very small agency that was created to actually provide not very much more than daycare to children who were multiply handicapped, both physically and developmentally handicapped.

And I got involved with that, and that later matured to, at that time, it was very small meeting at a room that was given to them by the Eagles Club over on Washington Street, and then finally to the Al Sigl Center.

But in any event, that agency grew very significantly, yep.

- You mentioned the Al Sigl Center, and you're considered one of the founders.

- Well, I am.

I was on a committee that really developed the concept of the Sigl Center and promoted its creation, and I filed the incorporation papers for it.

We actually called it the Monroe County Center for Rehabilitation Agencies, which was kind of a mouthful.

And we knew that it needed another name, but we got it started with that name.

And we brought into it, as you know, several human services agencies.

And at some point, a year or so later, why we named it the Al Sigl Center.

When Al Sigl died, he was a remarkable person who was a radio personality, who had a daily show.

He had a gravelly voice that I don't know whether today would be suitable for the radio, but he would talk in a chatty way about the shut-ins in the community and the people in need in the community.

And he would urge people to donate blood and to provide wheelchairs and other assistance to the shut-ins, as he called them, and the handicapped.

And he was a great influence for good.

And when he died, he left a small, what today's standards would be a relatively small amount of money and trust that was something in excess of $30,000.

And his pastor was the custodian and trustee of that money.

And when we started a campaign to raise money for the center, what became the Al Sigl Center, the pastor came to me and said, "We'd like to donate the residue of that trust fund to your campaign."

So we jumped at that, of course.

And immediately, our board thought, "Well, it would be great to take his name for the center because it would really epitomize the work that we're doing."

- You make it sound like, well, it was just so obvious you bring together these various agencies, but it really wasn't like that, was it?

- No, it wasn't.

It was not like that.

For one thing, the predecessor of the United Way, which was in the community chest, was not really eager to see us do that.

They were urging us.

In fact, they were really trying to pressure us to merge some of these agencies into one agency, but we opposed that because they had basically different disciplines and different interests, and we thought it was not a good idea.

So rather than merge them, we thought, we'll just bring them under one roof.

And under one roof, where they can share common services.

And that would be a savings, which today has become a principal, I think, generally adopted the consolidating groups rather than necessarily merging the groups.

- And today there's a Justin Vigdor Conference Room, I believe.

- Well, there is, there is.

And people therefore think I'm dead.

You know, people tell me that they've been in that room and they couldn't imagine that the namesake of that room is still alive.

So... - Justin, you've been president of so many different legal associations locally and in the state.

I hesitate to run through them, but you're a past president of the Monroe County Bar Association.

- I am.

I was president of the Monroe County Bar Association in 1976.

And then I was president of the State Association in 1985.

And I'm still very active in both associations on various committees.

I founded the senior lawyer section of the State Bar Association, which did not exist, and which is designed primarily for senior lawyers and matters of interest to senior lawyers and have remained active in the state.

I'm still on the House of Delegates of the State Association, still active in the Monroe County Bar.

Yep.

- You mentioned the Senior Lawyers Association.

Have things changed over the years where age is really not an impediment to continuing to practice, to contribute?

- I think that's true.

I think that age is not an impediment.

It really, we've tried to urge the principle that firms which have mandatory retirement ages should reconsider that and judge people on their ability to continue rather than the age.

And many lawyers feel that way.

I think lawyers feel that as long as they are competent to represent people, they should have an opportunity to do so.

And that principle is one that's espoused by the senior lawyer section.

- Well, we started out saying that one of the reasons you came to Rochester was you had just started a family.

But it didn't stop there, did it?

- Family?

No.

We continued to produce a family.

In fact, we produced three other children.

So we had four and all and have four and all.

Yeah, I have a son and three daughters, yeah.

- [Norm] And a number of them are very successful in their own rights.

- Well, I'm happy to say that they are happy and successful, I think, yes.

I have a son who's an attorney here in the city at another firm.

I have a daughter who's an attorney, but who is currently not practicing law.

She is now the director of communications for the Brighton School District.

I have another daughter living in the Washington DC area who is not an attorney, but she was trained as a speech therapist and as a massage therapist, and she is married to an attorney who's a lobbyist in Washington.

And I have a daughter who is in Virginia, near Charlottesville, who is a health coach and a reiki instructor and author of a cookbook and a blog and is absolutely involved in health issues and nutrition.

She's a nutritionist as well.

So- - Well, I'm sure that anyone who knows you and your wife doesn't have any doubt that you have a high achieving family.

It must be in the genes, including some of your grandchildren who already have established careers.

- Well, that's I hope true.

I have one granddaughter who's an attorney and who is currently a federal public defender in Buffalo.

And I have a grandson who will be graduating from law school in just a month or two and who has excelled, done very well.

He recently won an Advocate of the Year Award for a National Moot Court Competition and took first prize.

And I have another granddaughter who was involved in city planning in Chicago, graduating from Northwestern and other grandchildren who are on the way still working.

Eight in all.

But, you know, I can't take credit for those.

- Well, I hope you don't mind my bringing it up, but I was wondering how you got involved with the Fringe Festival since many of the people who were involved in one of Rochester's newest and, say, a little bit more alternative festivals are the age of your grandchildren's.

- Okay, well, that I will be happy to talk about because for the last two or three years, it has become my passion.

And I've had more fun doing that than I have had with things in a long time.

Actually, there was a group that was originally convened by Joel Seligman at the U of R. When he came to town, he thought that Rochester ought to have a fringe festival.

There had been a fringe festival which originated in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1947.

And that has become one of... Well, not one of it, it's become the UK's major event for attracting attendance.

They have over a million people going through.

They have a month long festival in August.

It started very small, and there were a few theater groups that were invited to perform in 1947, but a number of groups that were not invited decided that they would want to be there so they came anyhow and they rented space and vacant garages or bars or hotels and they put on shows as well.

And in reviewing the festival, the newspaper referred to them as the fringe of the festival.

Well, that has just mushroomed.

And from that group fringe festivals around the world, there are many cities now that decided to adopt fringe festivals.

We had very few in the United States.

Currently, there are about 20 in the United States.

So Joel thought it would be good to have one in Rochester.

And he assembled a group of the people involved in the cultural arts and the community to plan the start of a festival, which the U of R was determined to foster and support.

Well, that group (indistinct) over a period of time, but was unable to work things out for a variety of reasons.

And the U of R was embarking on its major fund campaign and was unable to devote as much time or, really, as much resources to it.

And that group was about to disband when at a meeting they had the coincidental good fortune of someone inviting our current producer, Erica Fee, who grew up here in Victor.

And then later, I went to University of Rochester and Phi Beta Kappa, highly capable young woman.

And she then went to London where she acted in...

Went to the London School of Drama.

She acted in production, she produced, and she happened to be visiting her family in Rochester And they invited her to one of these meetings.

And she was the only one who really knew firsthand what fringe festivals were all about because she had acted in and produced in Edinburgh.

And she said, "Well, if you want to create one here, well, I'll be happy to come back and serve as producer."

So they accepted that offer.

And then that group kind of separated from the U of R and they needed a legal format.

And they invited me and one of my partners to create a not-for-profit corporation and to get a tax exemption.

And we did that and we created board of directors, and they elected me as chair of the board, and I have been serving as that since and had a lot of fun doing it.

We produced our first festival, as you know, last summer, last September.

This year, it will be doubled in time, from five days to 10 days.

For an inaugural year last year, it was really remarkably successful.

We had over 30,000 attendees, we had about 180 performances of one kind or another, we had 22 venues, and we actually broke even, which was a remarkable feat.

- Well, when we were invited to participate, one of the first things people said was, "You know Justin Vigdor is behind this, which immediately gave it credibility."

- Yeah, nice to say that.

But we have a remarkable board of directors, and it really is a great board of directors.

We have on it representatives, the artistic director of (indistinct), Mark Cudi.

We have Grant Hockin of Mag.

We had Ruby Lockhart of Garth Fagan.

We've had Heidi Zimmer-Meyer of Downtown Development.

We have Elaine Spaull who's the city councilwoman.

I might add, you know, that WXXI was a huge supporter.

You guys, really, were very supportive, and we are very grateful for that.

- And we were happy to be part of it.

But festivals are one of the things that's changed about Rochester.

Now we have to work a little harder to bring people downtown and to be more involved in the city.

What have you seen over the many years you've been here?

How has Rochester changed for better and for worse?

- Well, it has, clearly, the downtown has been hurting, but it's coming back, I think.

As they're bringing residential construction downtown, I think that's slowly coming back.

I think festivals give the city some vitality, and that is obvious to me.

I think they're a good thing.

And I think that the city, really, the downtown, is the core of the county.

I think it is the heart of it.

And I don't think you can have the heart having heart failure and have a vibrant county.

I think you need to have that.

That's really the center of our infrastructure, our cultural infrastructure.

And it's crucial, I think, to the health of the entire area.

- Let me put you on the spot for a moment and say, what do you feel has been your greatest accomplishment in working with all of these various organizations from the Al Sigl Center to the Jewish Federation to... And I could go on and on.

- Well, I've had fun doing it.

I honestly en enjoy that sort of thing.

I must say that the formation and the maturation and the development of the Al Sigl Center has been a great pleasure.

Same is true with the county bar and the state bar.

The same is true with Iola.

Same is true with the fringe festival.

I've had so much fun the last few years working with creative people because I'm not at all creative.

and I'm working with talented people who are really very, very delightful and insightful, and it's just fun to see what happens when you bring people like that together.

Things sparks occur and things happen, and it's just great being a part of it.

- Well, what's next for Justin Vigdor?

- Well, I don't know.

I still have work to do on the fringe festival.

This is only the second year.

We're already, incidentally, the third largest fringe festival in the United States.

In the first year, we accomplished far more than we had expected to accomplish.

And we find that we are, in terms of attendance, the third largest in the country.

- Well, it's obvious that you still stay very busy outside your work.

We didn't mention it, but the last 20 years, you've spent with Boylan Code.

- That's true.

My prior firm was Moshe Vigdor, Hal Bronner and Reeves, and we were in the first Federal Plaza.

In fact, we moved in there when First Federal Plaza was built.

And we occupied two floors there initially.

And then in 1995, we merged with what was then Boylan Brown.

And the name was changed to Boylan Brown Code Victor and Wilson.

And that name has now been shortened to Boylan Code.

So I've been there 1995.

- [Norm] And obviously a firm that also supports the community and encourages people like you.

- We hope, and I think the firm has also been supportive of WXXI and other things, other worthwhile things.

I think that that's been one of our principles.

- Well, Justin, I think it's fair to say that Rochester was very fortunate that when you were doing your research in the library back in the '50s, that you chose Rochester instead of Syracuse.

- Well, you're very kind to say that, but truly, it was a coincidence.

As I said, I said the first job offer I get, that's where I'll go, and I'm very pleased that it happened to be from Rochester 'cause I think Rochester's a wonderful city.

I think we have here very many, I think disproportionately generous people.

We have a city of very, very generous people.

We have a city that values its infrastructure, values its cultural arts, values its human values, and I think you can see that in so many things.

I think it's a great city and I think it has a great deal to, I say a lot way to go also.

I think the downtown will come back.

I personally am sorry that we never did get the Renaissance Center, but I understand why we didn't.

I think it would've been great for downtown if we could have gotten it.

I think hopefully the Windstream building and the redevelopment of the Midtown area will bring a lot of life down to downtown.

I personally hope that some way the auditorium theater can be kept downtown.

I would hate to see it move out of downtown, but we don't know where that'll go.

But I think that it's a great city with great potential.

- Well, I think that, I think that our viewers will understand why when we mention the name Justin Vigdor, people say, "Ah, a true Renaissance man."

And I hope that all your predictions come true, that downtown does come back.

- Well, I hope that's true.

I don't know if I'll be around to see it entirely, but I do hope it come true, and I believe that it will come true.

I really do.

- Yeah.

And I think many people will say, "If Justin Victor's supporting it, it probably will happen."

- Well, you're kind.

You really are flattering, yeah.

But I've have had fun, which is very gratifying, you know?

And that's really important and that's great compensation, yeah.

- And we've had fun today too.

- I have.

- Thanks for being with us.

- [Justin] It's been a great pleasure, Norm.

- Thank you.

- Yeah.

- And thank you for watching.

If you missed part of "Norm & Company," you can find a podcast of the show at wxxi.org and we'll see you next time on "Norm & Company."

(gentle solemn music)