From the Alvin and Rosalie Sara Check studio PBS Kansas Presents Kansas Week.

The heated debate over immigration enforcement, a controversial new bill would force local taxpayers to foot the legal bill for police who cooperate with Ice.

Also caught in a political standoff in Washington.

Why local TSA agents are working with no pay and now are relying on a public food drawer just to survive.

But first, cracking down on classroom protests.

Lawmakers threaten big fines for school districts that allow student walkouts.

That's what we're talking about right now on Kansas Week.

Hello and welcome to Kansas Week.

I'm Jared Cirillo.

A new proposal in Topeka is taking aim at student protests during the school day.

The Kansas Senate has now advanced a measure that requires parental permission for students to participate in walkouts.

It would also slap heavy fines on school districts potentially equal to a superintendent's entire salary, if staff encourages or enables demonstrations.

The move follows a large scale student walkout at Wichita East High School earlier this year.

The amendment sponsor, Senator Michael Murphy, says the rule is strictly about student safety and accountability, not silencing free speech.

But student organizers are arguing it's a direct attack on their First Amendment rights and unfairly punishes the schools.

The provision is attached to the state budget and still needs final legislative approval.

Here to talk about this and some of the week's other news is Wichita City Councilman Joseph Shepherd.

Sedgwick County Commissioner Jeff Blue Ball, former state legislator and current district court judge Phil Journey, and former fourth district congressional candidate Esau Freeman.

Thank you all for joining us.

And, judge, I'll I'll start with you.

This is what do you think about this one?

Is is this an infringement on on students rights or do students even have rights to have their in school?

There is a long line of cases, particularly of dealing with student newspapers, that they have First Amendment rights.

And, basically all we got to do is see what's going to happen is look at a recent First Amendment case, which was Afro man and his head and his head.

They the police, you know, the police raided his house, didn't find anything.

He made up a song about him, and they sued him for defamation.

And the jury just came back with all counts in his favor.

This is just going to be the ACLU's full employment policy that it's ill conceived.

You know, and why you want to punish the schools is beyond me.

So, you know, I understand parents need to know.

And I don't have a problem with that part of it.

But the rest of it, I think they're going to be on thin ice.

We'll see, we'll see.

Councilman Shepard, welcome to the show.

This is your first time on the show.

Do you agree?

Do you have a differing opinion?

I definitely agree that this violates the First Amendment rights of our students.

Not only that, we are living in a time where we have to be able to understand how to engage with people with diverse ideology.

I may not agree with you.

You may not be able to agree with me, but how do we create a space where we're able to take in that diverse ideology and philosophy and apply that to how we make a stronger democracy by engaging in civil discourse?

So I'm in full support of our young people exercising their rights of their First Amendment is does this do we think this will withstand a constitutional challenge though?

Esau I look I think the kids are right.

I think that, you know, when parents get to talking about, how they need to be informed, parents have, rights, but parents also have responsibilities.

You need to know where your kids are.

It's that contract as to going to school and where it is that's between you and your kid.

That's not the school's fault.

And, you know, in years past, we they've passed laws in Topeka that make no sense.

Like saying our security guards in schools can't use their handcuffs.

You know, there's no there's no penalty for it, but you can't use something that you're supposed to wear on your duty belt.

Like, why are we passing these laws with no teeth?

Because honestly, if you need your parent's permission to go protest something, you probably ought not go protest.

You know, as an individual, you make those decisions.

And yeah, maybe there will be consequences.

But if the kids feel strongly about it, they'll do it.

I remember doing it when I was in high school, but that brings up the subject, though, of, you know, parents.

I hear a lot of parents say I don't want my child doing something like, my child better stay in class, you know?

Well, did you raise your kid to follow your instructions?

If so, I mean, that's your responsibility.

There's a punishment on the back end from the parents.

If if their kid does something wrong, parents need to pull up their bootstraps and quit expecting the rest of society to correct their children's behavior for them.

Yeah.

You know, prior school board member myself, I mean, I look at it as an unexcused absence.

You know, they have a right to to freedom of speech, protest, whatever they like.

But I don't know, during the school time to do it.

You know, I had a angry 12 year old daughter come home the other day that was upset about the no cell bell, the bell.

And she was upset with me saying, they can't do this to me because I'm not I'm not old enough to vote.

And it it's an infringement on my rights.

She went on and on, making their case to me about, well, that's why you're not old enough to vote when maybe you're not old enough to have a cell phone either.

So that also talks about, you know, is this student protest a form of civic learning or is it really a disruption one or the other?

Do you think it's civic learning at all?

I mean, if you mentioned that if you are in class, you should stay in class if you're an adult, if you went out and protested and missed your work, I have a feeling you might lose your job.

Yeah, I don't I don't know that I would call it a civic engagement.

I don't know if if teachers are, I would hope they're not prepping students for this or I don't know if there's any feedback afterwards.

So I don't know if it is a political exercise.

Maybe that's a little different conversation if I could go ahead.

Okay.

One of the things I wonder if we're going to evenly prosecute these schools, because I remember back in 2012, I think it was Tim Hewitt's camp, loaded up a whole bunch of kids from western Kansas, from a Catholic school, and the Catholic school loaded all the kids up and took them to protest the abortion clinics.

So are we going to be fair?

Are we going to prosecute those people as well?

Yeah, I'm in agreement with you.

Don't punish the schools, but I still view it as an unexcused absence.

I agree with you.

I do, yeah.

Judge, anything else you want to add here?

I think it's, probably ill conceived.

I don't I have not had a chance to review that bill.

Like, I was reviewing a couple of others.

We've got today.

I think that it's it's not ready for prime time, you know.

All right.

Our next story.

The Kansas Senate has advanced a bill this week setting new rules for local police who work with federal immigration agents.

House Bill 2372.

It requires that state and municipal insurance pools cover the legal liability for agencies that hold suspects in jail on behalf of Ice.

Supporters call it a critical public safety measure designed to keep violent offenders behind bars.

But critics, including the ACLU, warn that this forces local taxpayers to underwrite potentially unconstitutional detentions.

Opponents argue that the mandate shifts massive financial risk onto Kansans.

If law enforcement agencies are hit with civil rights lawsuits, etc., I'll start with you.

I have a feeling you've got a pretty strong opinion.

I stand with the ACLU on this, and I don't understand why the citizens should be taxed with the cost of protecting the police departments to do something that a good majority of our population, especially those kids at East High, don't agree with.

I have no problem with detaining people who are in the country illegally and finding out where people are, and if they have crimes, they can be deported.

However, we have due process in this country.

And so for people in Kansas to be thinking about passing bills, that you can hold somebody indefinitely, that is ridiculous.

It's unconstitutional.

And I do not support it.

Yeah.

Judge, let me ask you, how often are Kansas law enforcement agencies asked to detain people for immigration purpose?

Do do we know how many people are in the Sedgwick County Jail right now based on immigration holds from the federal government?

You'd have to ask the sheriff.

Sure.

But I had one today that I sentenced to prison.

And it's pretty obvious to me he's got it.

He's still got another case in Harvey County and another one in Marion County.

But he's illegal alien, and I'm sure he's going to be on the way out and he'll have a detainer on him.

They can put those detainers on someone in Katy or C or in the Sedgwick County Jail.

So, I mean, it's just a fact of life that these things happen.

And they've been happening for years.

We've been deporting them forever when they get it done with their when they get done with that.

I mean, you know, I've actually made decisions like, well, you know, they'll come back, see you later, you know.

But this bill, this bill has some real problems too.

Okay.

For example, it says that if there is a finding that the detainer issued by Ice did not meet the requirements of section B, it doesn't say who makes that finding.

And it also has another section that says if there's a finding that they're a U.S.

citizen, then you can lift a detainer from Ice and not not obey it.

But it doesn't say who makes that finding.

I'm guessing it's the sheriff or you know, it's not a district court judge, and they certainly don't have to go to federal court for this.

Maybe they've got to go to an immigration judge to get that finding.

I don't know.

That's that's the problem with the bill.

Yeah.

But but those kinds of detainers and those attachments on individual defendants are routine in Sedgwick County.

Yeah.

Taxpayers ultimately bear the burden on this.

Councilman Sheppard?

Absolutely.

And when I ran to represent district one, I made it very clear that the federal government has their obligations.

And local government has our obligations.

And for me, particularly, I had the opportunity to go to D.C.

and in D.C., I had the opportunity to hear from the chief of police, Brian O'Hara, who is the chief police for the city of Minneapolis.

And to the judge's point, right.

This is complex and nuanced.

And and this bill, particularly the details are not there.

That's bad business.

That's bad bills.

That's bad policy.

And so if we want to get to the root of the challenge, let's get to the root of the challenge and call on our federal legislators to make sure that we are creating a, a process so that immigrants can come into this country efficiently, effectively and the right way.

At the same time, at the local level, I stand with our immigrant community and making sure that we are providing access to the tools and resources that they need to feel safe, seen, loved, and valued.

And we also have to keep in mind the strain that this could put on our local law enforcement, which is not a good use of taxpayer dollars.

The this critics often say that these policies can erode trust between immigrant communities and our law enforcement, though we've seen that in the Hispanic community for years.

They don't trust police.

That's right.

And it's bad for our economy when that culture of fear takes precedent.

Right?

We know that Latina growing businesses are the fastest growing businesses in our country, but when they have to go to a city hall or go to somewhere or an entity to receive that assistance, be it how to scale and grow their business, how to start their business, or maybe a nonprofit organization that has ties to the city.

They're a little hesitant to do that.

So that impacts our economy.

When children are missing out on school because they're worried that if they'll return back to their parents or they will return at all.

That impacts our workforce and our economy.

So this is a multi-pronged issue, and we need to be thinking thoroughly about what the impact is when we just put bills up, because we want a virtue signal.

You know, Commissioner Blue Ball, you oversee the sheriff who oversees the jail.

So what are your thoughts?

You know, you see the sheriff, he really doesn't.

If there's not a violent crime, they're there.

They're not really out there to enforce anything.

And to the point where we have you had them in your city council district.

You have pockets of neighborhoods with immigrants that do not call the police.

And and I just don't think that that's the behavior that we want to push.

Absolutely.

Our next door Democrats in Congress are demanding Ice be reformed before they approve funding for the Department of Homeland Security.

That means TSA agents at Wichita's Eisenhower National Airport are now working without pay.

They have been for almost a month, maybe even more now.

Local airport workers have been missing paychecks since mid-February, with no end in sight to the standoff in Washington.

The airport is asking the public to step in.

Wichita has now launched a food drive to support its struggling federal employees, joining similar efforts at hubs across the country.

Officials are collecting nonperishable foods and gift cards.

This is really sad.

You know, my my spouse and I planned a trip last year and we dealt with the government shutdown and TSA agents.

We thought that was done.

We're planning on another trip this year.

Here we go with TSA agents again, not getting paid and airports are going nuts.

And this is just not good.

Are we eroding trust in our federal government because of what's going on?

Yeah, we're really playing politics with federal employees and it's not right.

It's one thing for an air traffic controller that they're on strike and they get their pay back.

But these TSA agents are are not at the income level of an ATC officer, you know, so it's making it very vulnerable.

And a lot of them probably just want to go on to some other career field.

So, yeah, I don't like using federal employees to play politics one way or another.

Yeah.

Eroding trust you saw which it absolutely is.

Excuse me.

I don't know why we don't stop the salaries for Congress and the president.

When when we shut the government down because these people are going and they're doing their job.

They've got families.

I also have people that I represent at the Eisenhower Library and Museum, in Abilene.

And I've got people who didn't get paid for six weeks and the first shutdown.

And because they work for a contractor, there's no federal law that requires that.

So there's a lot of people being hurt by the politicking, over these things in DC.

And obviously we need to reform is obvious.

We need to it's very obvious that we need to make sure that we're dealing with people respectfully.

We can get the job done without having a bunch of cowboys running it that aren't doing a good job.

So, judge, do we need do we need to reform this?

You know, that's kind of above my pay grade.

But, you know, it is tragic.

And, it is something that's absolutely necessary.

And I, I feel for these people, it's unfortunate that neither side seems to be willing to budge anywhere on this topic right now.

And they've dug in their heels.

And, basically the offers from the Republican side have been nonstarters.

So, you know, I don't see an end on this one for a while.

And it's the blame game.

You know, Republicans blame Democrats, and Democrats blame Republicans, and we lose.

That's right.

The people lose when we do that, Jared.

And we have to get back to focusing on the kitchen table issues.

And every day I walk into City Hall, it's no secret I work with six other individuals who we all have diverse thought processes, even the folks who we agree with and may have the same letter behind our name.

In this nonpartisan role, we still think differently on the path to get to where we need to go.

And so we have to have the emotional maturity and capacity to sit down to talk about these problems, center the challenge, and make sure that the people are the winners at the end of the day and not political theater, because it's eroding trust in all of our institutions.

Yeah, Kansans are losing tens of thousands of dollars to phone and social media scams and local banks say tech giants should foot the bill.

Banking officials are urging state lawmakers to hold companies like meta and telecom providers financially liable when scammers use their platforms to fleece their customers.

Banks argue that they are on the front lines of the financial theft and cannot fight the fraud alone.

But tech and wireless advocates are pushing back hard.

They call the proposal unconstitutional and warned that it would simply flood the courts with frivolous lawsuits.

While lawmakers confirm the bill won't advance this year, supporters argue that the hearings are kickstarting a critical conversation to protect vulnerable Kansans down the road.

Joe, you're nodding your head there.

Absolutely.

You're you're definitely a fighter for trying to protect vulnerable.

I am absolutely, especially our elders and our seniors in our community who I think oftentimes get missing this conversation, who are the most vulnerable when it comes to this?

You know, cybersecurity has to be talked about.

When we talk about advancing 21st century technology, it's a conversation we're having even with our Wichita Police Department, that as we embed 21st century technology, who owns the risk?

What is the risk and how are we educating the public on how to avoid and or mitigate some of those risks?

For many of our residents, the front door that they will experience to even local government or county government is the internet.

But we have got to do our due diligence and investing in cybersecurity, cyber literacy, and making sure that we're protecting our most vulnerable and every citizen and taxpayer as well.

Yeah, yeah, I'm just a victim of this.

A few years ago, with the old Facebook sponsored links.

Yeah.

And someone would send you their stuff.

I ended up they got $5,000 out of me.

I know it's happened to a lot of constituents and especially you talk about the elderly.

Most of them are embarrassed, shamed, and they did nothing wrong, but they don't want to admit that they were scammed.

And yeah, it's hard for me to admit to, but it happened, dealt with it with my own father before he passed away and made it to his early 80s.

And very smart man, an engineer.

And but when he got to this technology stuff, emails from banks and he would just think everything is real and respond and he thinks he has to respond to everything.

And unfortunately that's what they prey on these days.

Absolutely.

And maybe that's something we should be pushing for in our public schools and, and just within our communities to help our elders with those things.

But, you know, I'm sorry.

I don't feel sorry for the banks.

You know, they're asking for some protection, and they're blaming it on to make them cut it in half.

The problem is we, the taxpayer, when the people who get hurt in those situations are the ones usually left holding the bag.

So, you know, I mean, we've bailed Goldman Sachs out.

We dealt all these other banks out.

Let's really come on.

Let's take care of the people first.

George, anything to add?

Well, I would say that I think, cybersecurity is an important issue for all of us.

It's certainly something that has affected the courts.

Glenn, the state's own court website got hacked, right?

I've been to FBI symposium on cyber crime.

And the reality is that, the level of knowledge out there in the public about what to look for is almost nonexistent.

And I think education on that.

You know, I could see a really nice PBS show.

Yeah.

And, you know, this.

What?

This one isn't even going to get a hearing this session.

It's that bad.

It's just not very well drafted.

It's a Kansas Bankers Association bill.

That's why it's all skewed that way.

And I hope that they have a hearing and they they get a little bit more information out there.

And maybe we'll come up with something a little more productive next year.

And that brings up another topic about lobbyists and their power at the state House.

Well, you know, I've been there, done that.

I know they they're the expert.

That's right.

They're the experts.

They're the ones listened to.

Until you have two experts and then you get to pick.

But let's talk about some city topics.

Now, Wichita city leaders are holding off on a $650,000 plan to buy two robotic police dogs, the city council, delaying a vote until April to review this technology.

Police say the devices would be used by Swat and the bomb squad to keep officers safe during high risk calls for one local widow, though the decision is deeply personal, Mary Galvin lost her husband, bomb technician Lieutenant Jack Galvin, in a tragic explosion more than 20 years ago.

She believes these robots could have spotted the danger that took her husband's life.

She argues that if we expect our officers to run toward the danger, they need the equipment to do it safely.

Council member talk about these.

These robotic dogs.

The it seemed like just a couple of weeks ago this was going to be, a sure thing.

And now the police department may not get their robotic dogs.

What changed?

In at least in your eyes?

I know you can't speak for other counties.

Absolutely.

But for me, it's about taking the time to slow down the process and not just saying yes every time any entity comes forward to the city council and ask for money.

I think what we are learning from the public is that trust in all institutions, including local government, is not high right now.

And so one of the things that we can do utilize the tools in our tool belt to ask the questions and to see if this is truly where the investment needs to be made right now, with technology comes also the risk.

And so what are we doing to ensure that we are one, owning the part of the risk that is ours, but also holding the vendor, the contract vendor, accountable for any risk that they might put our taxpayers at.

With the data that they are collecting.

In addition, there were some questions about what happens if this robotic dog, gets blown up in an A situation.

Who's responsible for paying that?

Where would those dollars come from?

And so we're waiting to get more information back and to educate our community, because I will tell you, as my district is concerned, they're not too keen on a lot of the 21st century technology that's being utilized right now.

More trust and talk about trust in our police department.

It right.

Did the rejection of the sales tax vote have anything to do with why the council is now not, supporting this effort for the police part?

Normally the police department in years past has been very supportive of the Wichita Police Department and giving it just about anything, almost anything it asks for.

And they're not getting that now.

Yeah.

And Jared, it's a new day one.

I join my colleagues now on the council, and I think that it's also a new day in City Hall in terms of what we have heard, amplified by the community with that sales tax vote.

When I talk to many citizens about the sales tax vote, it's not that they didn't believe in the things that were being presented, it's that they wanted to be a part of the process.

And it's about creating a trustworthy process.

And whether it's Wichita Police Department who I'm very grateful for, they serve our community with bravery.

Wichita Fire Department, or any department or organization that relies on funding from taxpayers.

We need to slow down the process and ensure that it's a trustworthy process when we are both allowing them to come to ask for money and then making the decision to provide that money.

So when I mentioned that the Wichita Police Department has generally gotten everything, most everything it's asked for, you nodded your head pretty strongly.

Very strongly.

I happened to negotiate for the classified employees, who are the ones that don't ever get mentioned that keep your drinking water going, keep your sewers moving.

And, you know, quite honestly, you know, my condolences to the officers family and and, you know, that is a tragedy.

But we have people die in public works in the line of duty, and we're not getting robot workers to replace them.

So one of the things and I see where you're going, Jeff.

But like, we always give police and fire everything because they, they do have what we consider a very dangerous job.

But they make a lot of money for doing that dangerous job, whereas we've got people that do a lot of things in public works that are equally dangerous.

And statistically, they die more than police do.

And we're not going after getting them all the greatest and newest equipment all the time.

So what what I'm saying is, is police and fire are important, but you got to take care of everybody else in the city equally because they're all important.

Jeff, do you agree?

You know, our time during the council, I really got into the real time crime Center, went down to Fort Worth, trying to trying to learn this next, next day technology or trying to understand where we're at.

And I just look at the tour claims were just paid out 11.2 million on something.

I mean, I look at the risk.

I think $600,000 is the price of a couple porta potties downtown.

Oh my goodness, that's another that's another topic.

Judge.

Judge with about 30s left on this because I want to move on to our next our next topic.

What are your what is your about this I think we I'll just get one and see how it works and go from there.

You know, I mean I don't know, does it bite people I don't know.

And then I figure just goes and looks around, says the guys are looking on the little scanner, hang it going like, okay, go this way or that, I don't know, just try one, just get one, see how it works.

You know, maybe they'll give you a loaner.

Yeah, right.

Right.

There you go.

You know, lease one for a few months and play with it a little bit.

And, you know, there might be an opportunity to as we engage of, okay, are we able to utilize this technology for other regions that may not be smaller communities that may not be able to afford some of this technology?

And look at a mutual aid agreement.

If you have the case, we'll be using it all the time.

So this would be an opportunity to also generate some revenue and more support within our our city.

Our last story.

It's been almost three weeks since Wichita voters crushed a proposed 1% city sales tax.

And the fallout over public trust continues.

Nearly 82% voted against the measure, which would have raised $850 million for convention center upgrades.

Homeless programs.

Public safety mayor Lily Wu has since called the rushed special election a mistake.

Both opponents and city leaders agree.

The defeat sends a clear message that officials must rebuild transparency and earn back voter trust before they come back to taxpayers asking for more money.

Councilman, we're running short on time here so quickly.

Tell me, the council very quickly rushed into this.

Do you regret that?

Now?

I do not regret it.

And everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I think what we were able to take from this is bigger than.

Than my vote.

That, moved it forward.

And it was very clear.

Trust must be rebuilt.

We're moving forward in that direction.

And so we look forward to engaging with the community.

Judge, I know you want to chime in here.

You know, I work in 100 campaigns.

I managed a an effective winning question on the ballot citywide.

When in ninth, when Elmer Broadfoot was mayor.

And I've.

I've worked in legislative and executive branch campaigns, and they each have to be run differently.

And the problem with the question ballot first was, I don't think there was nearly enough information provided to the public before it ever went to the ballot, that it was a rush to judgment.

And, they didn't maintain a common theme in the campaign.

I didn't get to see everything.

I never saw the Communist thing, whatever that was.

It was a commercial, you know, or I never saw the commie commercial.

And then, you know, they sent out a mailer with the wrong date, right?

And, I mean, those are amateurish mistakes.

And, you know, you saw seconds.

You know, I one thing I figured out is that people in Wichita care more about marijuana decriminalization than they do paying higher taxes.

So you guys are going to get hit with another school bond coming up.

We've got to rebuild that trust.

And we got to tell people what this is really going to do.

And it's got to go to things that help the average working person.

It can't be about tax breaks for people who own a bunch of land.

You own that much, right?

You got to pay.

We are out of time.

Thank you so much to Joseph Shepard, Jeff Blue Ball Field Journey and Esau Freeman for being here.

Thanks to cake for sharing their video with us as well.

We'll see you next week.