- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato.

We're honored to be joined by Kareem McKenzie, former great player in the NFL, and has been working on his dissertation at Kean University in counseling, and has finished all of his coursework, and down the road, we're likely to be calling him Dr. Kareem McKenzie.

Good to see you, sir.

Great to have you with us.

- Oh, my pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

- Let me ask you this, seven seasons with the Giants, two Super Bowls, now working in the field of counseling, if I were to ask you, Kareem, the biggest difference between being a star player in the NFL and being a counselor is?

- I would say that being a counselor is a much more tedious and arduous process because there's no way to accurately prepare for the crises that walks through your actual office door on a given day, whereas the NFL was pretty simplistic.

You knew Monday through Friday what to expect practice-wise.

And there may have been a couple of, you know, surprises on game day, but other than that, it was a pretty easy process.

And I'll say easy in that I did it for 11 years, so it became a second nature almost aspect to it.

Whereas counseling, you don't know necessarily what to expect to endure, you know, how to deal with certain issues.

- Kareem, what moved you, after your NFL career, what moved you to pursue a master's in counseling, I believe, from William Paterson University, and then a doctorate in the field from Kean University, one of our longtime higher ed partners?

Where does your passion for counseling come from, sir?

- I think the passion in and of itself stems back to the feeling of, you know, almost being a ship without a sail, being listless when I first retired from the NFL.

And I say retired in that it's a misnomer because, in all actuality, I'm unemployed, so to speak, from the NFL, right?

Because to be retired, you actually garner and earn a pension that you can receive, which I have quite a while to go before I can do that.

But at the same time, looking at what was going on in my life to try to figure out how to translate those skills that I had learned, that skill set I learned in the NFL, to apply to a job outside of that context was very difficult.

And I thought, for other players who may have had some of those difficulties as well, 'cause I think, back at that time, in 2011, the statistics were pretty far-ranging in terms of being financially unstable, being divorced, and having difficulty in finding a job, so to speak.

So I thought it would be a great career for myself to go ahead and help others who were experiencing some of those same issues.

Because when you look at the NFL, you know, you have the draft, you know, the pre-draft, you know, meetings and things of that nature.

When you retired, or they let you go, there's no exit meeting of, okay, so now what do you have planned next in your life?

It's more so just, well, we thank you for your participation.

We thank you for your help.

And yeah, we'll talk to you later.

- You know, what I'm curious about, and I'd like you to talk about this, Kareem, if you could, you did some work in counseling at the Bridge Academy in Irvington, community right outside of Newark, New Jersey, working with young people in connection with their substance abuse.

What did you experience, what did you see, Kareem, and what impact has that had on you, please?

- Okay, well, there's two things there.

First thing is it was the Bridge Incorporated in Irvington, which is based in, their main office is based in Caldwell, New Jersey.

Number two, I don't like the term substance abuse, because idealistically, you know, I don't think there's a medical professional out there that could tell me an actual, definable level of substance use for an adolescent to use that would be okay at any one point.

So for me, in particular, it's substance use, right?

Because there's no level at which you can say it's therapeutic for a child under the age of 18.

There may be some instances where it is helpful, but typically, when we're talking about substance use for adolescents, they are using it to either cope with something, to fit in, and/or to deal with life's issues as a whole.

And some of the issues that I saw, in particular, was that I had young people who were dealing with life circumstances and other things that did not necessarily meet criteria on a, quote, unquote, assessment, right?

I was given an assessment tool to utilize to tell me specifically how to interview these young people to figure out what areas of their life they needed help in that I could go ahead and assist them in overcoming some of those obstacles.

And what I found is that the tool that I was using was wholly inadequate.

It wasn't sufficient to identify or even explore relevant areas of their life to where I could say, okay, let's go ahead and address this issue, and if we can possibly remove this, I can hopefully get you to recognize that substance use is no longer necessary, right?

And in those instances, I just, you know I wanted to do research, and I was trying to look for tools and see who else was having these issues.

And that's what led me to getting my doctorate, because I felt that this was an area of research that needed to be addressed, that to deal with young people in today's society where we now have marijuana legal in the state of New Jersey and the influences of substance use are all around us, the environment in which the young people grow up today is just flooded with social stimuli.

You look at Twitter, TikTok, Instagram.

there's so many different influences that are there.

- Right.

- And a lot of times, these young people just need help in finding their place in society, in their own environment.

And if they don't have the necessary coping skills to do so, they may end up using substances in some instances.

- Kareem, the young people you worked with in Irvington were disproportionately black and brown, correct?

- That is correct, yes.

- People watching right now, and this is an important question I think a lot about, and I'm not sure if my perspective is even remotely as valuable as yours, the challenges, the issues around counseling of teenagers who are black and brown versus those who are not, to what degree do you believe they are significantly different and/or more challenging, please?

- Well, I think research bears out that the ways in which it is handled is significantly different.

And that's something that has been supported by some of the research that I've read, some of the participants who've actually, you know, participate in my study.

And they've recognized that there's a significant difference between the two cohorts, so to speak.

We're talking about Caucasian versus African American and/or black, and Caribbean in some instances.

One of the main aspects in particular is the ability to have requisite medical care, you know, to have- - Sure.

- a primary care physician- - Access.

- to where you do access to it, right, the supports where... And it was, my tool was utilized, my program, I did also do some work outside of Irvington in other school districts to where their processes were different.

And I noticed that there was a difference between a parent who said, "Okay, well, I'm not gonna take my child to your program.

I'm gonna take 'em to their doctor, and I'm gonna have 'em evaluated by their doctor, and they will tell me specifically whether or not they have an issue."

Whereas, in some of these other impoverished communities, they don't have a primary care physician.

they don't have health insurance, on of the, you know, necessary medical supports or resources necessary to say, "Well, okay, let's go do this."

And at the same time, you're talking about individuals who are literally one paycheck away from being homeless in some instances.

So having the ability to attend to these issues in some regards was not there.

- Final question, from my perspective, what is the quote one down approach that you told our producers is important to understand because it has the potential to have great impact in counseling, please, the one down approach?

- The one down approach is to go ahead and to listen, to honestly listen to what is important to your client, the individual, what they talk about, what they're not saying.

Because I think, a lot of times, and this is just my personal experience, whenever I had a young person in my office, that may have been the first time that someone actually listened to them rather than telling 'em, "You need to do this.

You need to do that," and in instances, I found myself sometimes having to cut them off because they would be in my office sometimes for an hour and a half, two hours, just talking about the multitude of things that they were going through, and their experiences would further let me know that there's something here that we're missing, that we need to address.

- Kareem McKenzie, an important, powerful voice, and particularly in the area of counseling.

He is a former NFL player, a PhD candidate at the time of this conversation in the area of counseling at Kean University.

And we wish you all the best, Kareem.

And next time you join us for the conversation, it'll officially be Dr. Kareem McKenzie.

Thank you very much, sir.

We appreciate it.

- Yes, indeed.

Thank you so much, all.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We are honored to be joined by Jeannie Fournier, who's Vice President of programs and services at the Community Food Bank of New Jersey.

Jeannie, great to have you with us.

- Steve, thank you so much.

Pleasure to be here today.

- You got it.

We'll have the website up for the Community Food Bank of New Jersey, one of our longtime partners.

We're doing important work in terms of food insecurity across this state.

Let me ask you this, Jeannie, the numbers are staggering, but beyond statistics, real human beings, right?

The Community Food Bank of New Jersey estimates they provide over 85 million meals in 2023.

In 2018, that was 50 million.

The demand, the need is greater than ever before, correct?

- Absolutely, Steve.

Yeah.

You know, you referenced two numbers, and we've seen some slight shifts over the years, but the need remains incredibly high.

- The pandemic has caused what, from your perspective?

In terms of families needs, individual's needs, to have access to healthy food?

- Yes.

I mean, I think what we saw from the pandemic was need throughout the state, that we know has always been there.

But it really heightened.

I think it heightened it of course, for everyone who is experiencing it.

But also in just visibility for individuals to recognize the need that exists throughout the state, we're currently around 650,000 of our neighbors, which equates to one in 13 individuals.

175 of which are children.

So those numbers are incredibly high, and Community Food Bank of New Jersey is really working to try to meet those needs.

- Talk about the impact of inflation.

- Absolutely.

I think as of June, inflation was up about 3%.

I wager to say anybody who's gone to the grocery store recently has seen just the rise in food costs alone.

Also, with the end of the public health emergency, a number of associated moratoriums and the benefits cliff if you will, have exacerbated the situation.

So you're talking about the end of extended unemployment, emergency SNAP allotments, the child tax credit, utility shut off moratoriums.

So you combine all of this with an increase in food costs, and already limited food budgets, and it's a real issue.

- You make a reference to SNAP SNAP formerly known as food stamps, correct?

- Correct.

Yes.

- Okay.

So let's talk about this.

There's an initiative I want you to explain, so that people can go on the website and find out more.

And we've been involved in public awareness programming for several years around food insecurity.

So this is really important.

The Healthy Pantries program, what is it, Jeannie, please?

- Yes.

Growing Healthy Pantries is a collaborative partnership between the Horizon Foundation, and the state's food banks.

So, Community Food Bank of New Jersey, Food Bank of South Jersey, Fulfill, Mercer Street Friends, and Norwescap.

And so the initiative aims to seek food security, promote healthy food options, and improve the overall health for New Jersey children and their families.

- So is it different organizations coming together to have a greater impact?

- Yes.

- The first phase of this project that we're working on, is the development of a toolkit.

And what this toolkit aims to do, is to provide best practices, strategies, and resources that can really guide our network of a thousand plus local feeding organizations, such as food pantries, as an example, to really support them in their journey of becoming, you know, healthier spaces.

So the exciting thing about it, is that the toolkit will really act as a shared language, if you will, so that we are working with all of the pantries in the same way.

- So, Jeannie, the Community Food Bank of New Jersey, one of the largest in the country.

But there are a lot of smaller food pantries, smaller organizations.

What are the most daunting challenges they face?

- I know outside of inflation, they're really working to make sure that they can provide resources to our neighbors in need who visit, who visit their organization.

It's also thinking about, you know, the support, the staff.

Whether it's staff or volunteers really being able to come together and support those neighbors on a local level.

- Yeah.

The other issue that someone might say, "Well why is, you know, Jeannie Fournier talking about this?

It's the Community Food Bank of New Jersey."

But it is an important issue.

Talk to us about Period Poverty.

- Yes.

So the lack of financial resources to be able to cover period products, is called Period Poverty, and Community Food Bank of New Jersey is part of the National Diaper Bank's Network Alliance for period supplies.

And so we do, and have been for many years been providing period supplies to a number of community partners.

Currently it's over 150.

But what recently passed was a bill that would have the state covering period supplies being in schools, for example, where just like toilet paper, or paper towels that are free and accessible, would also be accessible to students.

- And this is called the Menstrual Equity Bill?

- Correct.

- In court legislation.

Jeannie, let me ask you this before I let you go.

Why do you do this work?

- I'm passionate about providing access to individuals regardless of where they live, so that they can live as healthy and active a life as possible.

And so when we think about not only what food is served, but how the food is served, and really giving neighbors the dignity of choice to make the decisions for themselves, that are going to be best for them, for their families, is very personal to me.

I've been doing this work for over 20 years, and now as a mother, I think it just has a different feeling when you really wanna know that people can take care of themselves.

And really working to support them in that journey.

- Incredibly important work at the Community Food Bank of New Jersey.

Jeannie Fournier, Vice President of Programs and Services at the Community Food Bank of New Jersey.

Jeannie, thank you so much.

Wish you all the best.

- Thank you so much for having me, Steve.

- We'll talk again soon.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- There he is.

I don't know, maybe, you may know his face, but you know his name for sure.

That's Tim McLoone, musician, entertainer, humanitarian, owner of a whole range, what, is it 10 McLoone restaurants?

- We have 10.

We do have 10 restaurants (laughs).

Not all of which are making money, by the way, so just- - We'll talk about that in a second.

Also, Tim, let me do this, on a personal note, as someone who has, goes to a lot of Seton Hall basketball games, you are the voice.

- I am the Arena voice, that's true.

- At Prudential.

How long have you been doing that?

- I'm not sure, but I think it was in '99, I think that's when I left the Nets and went over to Seton Hall, so I think since 1999.

And it's the most fun you can have for the, one of the first, the first big time sporting event I ever saw, I'm old enough, as I mentioned, but I went to Ebbets Field and I saw the Dodgers play the Phillies, so I'm old, I'm that old.

But the next thing I ever went to was the Seton Hall basketball game.

'cause I grew up in South Orange and into Old Walsh Gym.

I believe the year was 1957 or '58.

- Was Richie Regan playing?

- Not playing.

He was coaching.

- He was coaching already.

- Yeah.

Not, not quite yet, actually.

It was Honey Russell was the coach then.

He was about to retire and Richie took over.

- Yeah, a lot of history there.

Tim, is the PA announcer for those games.

All good.

Hey Tim, do us a favor.

Jump into this right away.

Your restaurants are all over the place, and you said some are making money, some are not.

Describe for us from your perspective, the state, I know it's a more complex question, answer than my question, the state of the restaurant industry in the state of New Jersey is... - Well, I think it's healthy.

I do think it's healthy.

You have to be on your toes now.

Things have changed a lot.

Not because of the pandemic, it had already happened.

We're in our 35th year.

I think I started in 19, I guess 36, 1987 I opened up the Rum Runner in Seabright and it's still there.

It's a new building because Sandy washed it out into the river.

Part of the restaurant is still in the river if anyone wants to visit it.

But we, back then, there wasn't as much competition.

We were one of the first ones actually to put in outside dining, 'cause we weren't making it.

And I saw all these cars parked on the river, looking at the water for whatever reasons, and we put a deck on there and it filled up immediately.

So we saw that.

But the pandemic did change everything in that there was that period of time for a couple of years, when a lot of people were on enhanced unemployment.

They weren't working and they in some cases had more money than they'd ever had.

And so every night was Saturday.

So Tuesday night, "What do you want to do?"

"Uh, let's go out to eat."

It was crazy.

And we actually prospered through that time once we were allowed to go indoors, and opened the bars up.

When the bars were closed, we couldn't make any money.

But once they went inside, it was incredible.

But now that that's gone away, and the PPP is all over with, and all the rest of it, and unemployment has gone back to its norms, we're back to the norms, which is, it's pretty quiet on Monday through Thursday.

A little better on Friday, overwhelming on Saturday and Sunday.

But we're now 50% weather dependent again, which is where we used to be.

Now we're weather dependent.

And it's been a rocky, June was rocky, you know, with weather.

And lately it's been storms and the rest.

- We're taping it toward the end of July, 2023.

Hey Tim, real quick.

I wanna do liquor license in just a second.

But how important was the government money, particularly federal money, state money as well during COVID?

- Well, you know, there's an old joke that one of the worst things you can hear, is that "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

(Tim laughs) But if it hadn't been for PPP, you and I would be talking now about, do you really miss being in the restaurant business?

We would've gone- - You would've gone out of business, Tim?

- We wouldn't have made it.

We wouldn't have come close.

On March 17th, St. Patrick's Day ironically, I laid off 700 people, including my wife.

And- (Tim laughs) - What year?

Is it, are you talking '21?

- Yes.

No, '20.

It was '20, right?

- '20.

'20, yes.

- When the whole thing started.

- Yes.

- We laid everybody off.

And honestly, I'm the most optimistic person most people would ever leave.

- You sure are.

- And I went into a shell.

I couldn't see the path.

And if it hadn't been PPP money, there would've been no path.

PPP one, got us to where we could start hiring people back.

PPP two, thank goodness, got us back to where we could start serving outdoors and partially indoors.

And then there was another one called, the Restaurant Recovery Fund.

That was the last (indistinct) and that was the one that enabled us to get back to full-time and hire everybody back and the whole deal.

And thank goodness for it, you know.

But the business model has changed dramatically.

This is the first time, like we went to a, our minimum wage in the building now, is $16 an hour.

You could come in never having even been in a restaurant in your life.

You could come in not speaking English.

You could come in with any number of reasons, no skills.

And you're gonna start at $16 an hour.

And to be honest with you, I'm happy for it.

I regret now not being more alert to the fact that we were exploiting people.

We were forcing them into that sort of traditional situation.

You're a dishwasher, you're a cleaner, you're cutting lettuce in the back or something, and you're making eight, nine, $10 an hour.

So when I leave the restaurant at the end of the night, and I go down to the 7-11, and I see you, the same person, stuffing newspapers to make it go.

It was not possible.

Now it's $16 an hour to start.

It's something of a living wage.

Nobody's gettin' rich, but, it's the first time that the low earners in our industry had leverage.

- Tim, shift gears for a second.

Liquor licenses.

You are, you are not in favor of Governor Murphy's liquor license reform effort.

First of all, what is that reform effort?

Why are you against it?

Because you represent an awful lot of folks in your industry, please.

- Yeah.

Well, in a nutshell, they're looking to revamp what are always referred to as archaic rules.

And it's absolutely true.

It goes way back to prohibition.

- To get a liquor license.

To get a liquor license.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

To get a liquor license.

I understand that.

The first push, and I agree with this part of it, is that there's a lot of pocket licenses out there.

And what that means is that somebody buys a license and then sticks it in their pocket and doesn't use it.

And that's in many cases, to keep from, to keep competition down.

So one of the things is like, use it or lose it.

Okay, you bought a liquor license you've got three years or five years to activate it.

That makes sense to me.

I think the fact that it's I think one license per every 3000 people in a town.

Okay.

Or five, whatever it is, lower that, lower that, go ahead.

But do not make them ubiquitous where everybody's got a license.

And our primary reason is we played by the rules.

The very first liquor license I bought in Seabright was $300,000.

- What's the 750 grand in Montgomery?

You paid $750,000 for the liquor license in Montgomery?

- Yep.

Montgomery.

We paid 650 in Asbury Park.

And the problem that no one has talked about, and I am sure that I will manage to get the word to Governor Murphy, is that the banks don't like this.

My liquor licenses are pledged against our mortgages.

And if those liquor license values go from 750,000 in that case to 20,000, the bank's gonna say, you know, you're not keeping up to your agreements.

And your, you know, your loan to value will just change.

- I wanna, we're gonna have Tim in another segment.

Do me a favor Team, can we put up Holiday Express, the website?

Look, gimme 30 seconds on Holiday Express, because it is absolutely the best.

Please, Tim.

- Well, we started in '93, and our goal is that we provide music and entertainment, and really what sounds a little bit too much, the gift of human kindness to people.

In November and December, if they didn't see us, they would get little or no attention during holiday time.

So it's long-term residential, psychiatric facilities homeless shelters, soup kitchens, the like.

- It's music, it's entertainment.

- Yeah.

We have 115 professional musicians.

We'll do a hundred events between November 6th and December 24th, Christmas Eve.

It's our 30th year.

It's pretty amazing that we were able to do that that so many people had, it just touched everybody and it's the best thing we've all ever done.

- Yeah.

And I've seen them many times.

Tim, you and your colleagues with Holiday Express doing great work.

Hey my friend, I'm looking forward to seeing you soon down at Prudential, and you're doing great work.

Thank you Tim.

See you down on Jersey Shore.

- Thank you.

Always a pleasure my friend.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The Fidelco Group.

Valley Bank.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

IBEW Local 102.

The North Ward Center.

The Russell Berrie Foundation.

Hackensack Meridian Health.

And by Prudential Financial.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey Globe.

And by New Jersey Monthly.

How do you create change?

By cultivating hope.

And we see that every day, in the eyes of our preschoolers, in the souls of the seniors in our adult day program, in the minds of the students at Robert Treat Academy, a national blue ribbon school of excellence, in the passion of children in our youth leadership development program, in our commitment to connections at the Center for Autism, and in the heart of our community, the North Ward Center, creating opportunities for equity, education, and growth.