[light music] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to "Side By Side."

My guest today first started out as a TV journalist, but after teaching a course in public speaking, she fell in love with the classroom experience.

She's now the Chancellor of Elizabeth City State University, and her leadership has helped transform the school.

Today we'll meet Dr. Karrie Dixon.

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[light music] - Dr. Dixon, welcome to "Side By Side."

I gotta tell you, your journey in life has been interesting, to say the least.

I mean, you went to NC State and you got an undergrad degree in communication, then you went to UNCG and got a master's in communication.

And went back to NC State and got a doctorate in education.

And you were a journalist.

- Yes.

- You worked in television.

And today you're the Chancellor of Elizabeth City State University.

How does one go from journalist to university president?

- Well, it is been a great journey, a great journey.

So I started out in television first working at WRAL, working with Monica Laliberte.

Yes, I was at WRAL in Raleigh.

And then from there, after I graduated, I went to work for an NBC affiliate, WXII in Winston-Salem.

And so what I really loved about journalism was also part of my passion in writing and marketing.

So a lot of the time that I spent at the television station, I worked on producing commercials for the local station.

I also worked on some marketing efforts, and, you know, it really spoke to my passion around branding and how important it is, and to get the attention of the viewer.

- And so you picked up a lot of skills that are very translatable to a university that had some better days and some not so better days in the past.

And now your job is to transform it into a successful university that serves thousands of students, as you have already done in a short tenure.

They hired you as an interim chancellor.

- [Karrie] Yes.

- Then they loved you, and all of a sudden, eight months later they made you chancellor.

- Right.

- And one of the first things you did, you brought aviation to the school as a program.

- Right.

- Why is that?

- So when I started at Elizabeth City State University, the university was facing some very challenging times.

There were conversation with the North Carolina Legislature about closure in 2014.

- Really?

- Yes, so I was actually asked to go there to be part of a task force that was gonna assess really where the university was as far as the stability of the institution moving forward.

- How many students then when you arrived?

- At that time, the university had faced a 60% decline in enrollment.

- Six zero?

- Six zero.

So it was right around 1100 students.

And that's where some of the conversations started around closure, around whether or not the university had the number of students, the financial stability to continue on.

And so part of my job at the time was to go there from the UNC System Office, to go there and serve on a task force with some board of trustee members as well as some UNC board of governor members to assess where the university was at that point and how we could turn the corner.

- Or to close it.

- Or to close it.

And the legislature was having that conversation.

And what they decided was to conduct a study to see whether or not the university could continue on.

And so it was just really amazing to see how the alumni and some legislators who understood the importance of Elizabeth City State in Northeastern North Carolina, and how important it was to keep the university there, to keep it thriving.

We are one of three economic engines in Northeastern North Carolina.

So to have Elizabeth City State there- - The two being what?

- Sentara Hospital and the US Coast Guard.

So we're located about three miles away from the US Coast Guard Air Station.

So to have, you know, those three economic engines there, but the institution, Elizabeth City State was just really what needed to be there to continue to thrive and to keep Northeastern North Carolina on the map.

- So they had 1100 students - Yes.

- when you arrived?

- Yes.

- You'd been there a very short period of time.

- [Karrie] Right.

- And how many students Today?

- Today we have exceeded 2,000.

So we're at 2100.

- Almost doubled.

- Yes.

Doubled.

- At its height, Karrie, before they lost 60%, what was the enrollment at Elizabeth City State?

- It was close to 3500 students.

- Really?

- 3500 students.

- It went to 3500 to 1100.

- 1100.

Yes.

- Now you're climbing back up to 2,000.

- Yes.

We're climbing back up.

And every year that I've been there as chancellor, even interim, we've grown every year.

We've grown even during the pandemic, 13% enrollment growth.

- And what's the reason for that?

What is it that you've done that has turned the tide?

- Well, there are a couple of reasons I think have attributed to our growth.

First, one thing that I wanted to do was assess how we were recruiting and to look at those pipelines, those pipelines of recent high school graduates, also community college transfers, four-year transfers and military affiliated students.

And now we have a true focus on adult learners.

So back when I was trying to figure out about the enrollment piece, those are some of the areas that I wanted to assess to see how we were recruiting and how we were retaining our current student body.

Because both have to happen to be successful with enrollment.

And so we did that and the assessment kind of drew us to, I did a town hall of community colleges that were pipeline community colleges into the universities close in proximity.

And it was really good because it was a chance for me to say to them, "We want to be partners.

We want the community college students where your respective institutions that you represent, we want you to educate those students at the community college level, graduate them, and then tell them about Elizabeth City State."

Because that transfer population is one that has really helped us to grow the way we have grown.

And I think taking those visits and doing those town halls and talking about ECSU was something that has not been done as often or maybe not even at all.

But to be able to do that and to talk to them and to talk about the university, it helped a lot.

Another thing that helped is the fact that the North Carolina General Assembly put in place NC Promise.

and NC Promise- - Reduction in- - Yes, reduction in- - In fees and tuition.

- And tuition.

- You And Western Carolina?

- Western Carolina, ECSU, UNC Pembroke, and now Fayetteville State: we're all NC Promise.

- So that's intriguing, Karrie, because there's, you know, there's talk around the state about is this sustainable?

Can the state sustain that?

More importantly, can you sustain a low tuition coming into the school as it grows more and more and your needs become greater, whether it's housing, academic buildings, student resources, academic resources and so on.

- So there were a lot of concerns initially about NC Promise as to whether or not it would work and how do people feel about it.

And so there was a lot of conversation, and the perception, there were some that agreed: "Okay, let's try this."

And there were others who said, "No, maybe this isn't a good idea," because of those concerns around sustainability.

And what we found is that it significantly helped ECSU, because we were at a point where we needed that excitement, that opportunity to say, "We have reduced tuition $500 per semester for in-state students and $2,500 per semester for out-of-state students.

- Isn't that controversial, Karrie?

I mean, when you're charging 2500 for out of state, that means that North Carolina taxpayers are actually helping people from wherever they come from outside the state.

Correct?

- Correct.

So that was one of the questions that came up as the conversation began around NC Promise and its purpose.

But what we saw in the data is when students come to North Carolina from out of state, they stay.

And so the UNC System Office actually conducted that study a couple of years prior to NC Promise.

And so if we're able to get those students in North Carolina, they tend to stay in North Carolina.

And they tend to become those citizens, of course, that contribute to our tax and taxpayers.

- I began by asking you about aviation, because I saw somewhere where aviation at your university is active and attracts students.

Why aviation?

- So when I started as interim chancellor, I knew that we had to have a niche.

What was gonna be the niche, what was gonna be the story that we told about ECSU?

What makes us different?

What makes us unique?

And it was sitting right there.

The university had aviation science as a minor in the late 1990s.

And it transitioned to a major in early 2000.

And so when it transitioned to a major, we didn't do a good job of telling our story and telling everyone about aviation science and what we were doing at ECSU.

So one thing that I wanted to do is bring that to the surface and to tell our story, go public with aviation science being our signature program.

And the reason I wanted to do that is because we were the only university in North Carolina offering a four-year degree in aviation science.

And so to be able to have- - Does that mean they become pilots?

What does that mean?

- Yes, so our students become private and commercial pilots, as well as we have concentrations in aviation science, within aviation science and aviation management and avionics.

And then also in air traffic control.

Then in fall 2019, we started a degree program in unmanned aircraft systems, also known as drones.

- I see.

And that's used by government and intelligence and all kinds of, maybe even Amazon will drop the packages at your house using these drones.

- Yes.

- So Karrie, let's talk about a wider issue of education.

Today in America we acknowledge and recognize that there are an active and vibrant community college system.

Certainly in North Carolina, we have really a great system.

We have a public university system, 17, 18 universities.

- 17.

- 17.

We have private colleges in University of North Carolina, roughly 35 of them.

We are known across the country as a very strong state vis-a-vis education and its offerings.

And what is it that you see as North Carolina grows?

More businesses are coming to North Carolina.

Just in the Piedmont Triad and what we call Carolina Core, you know, the Toyota battery is gonna hire thousands of people; Supersonic at the Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem Airport is gonna have thousands of people.

Honda built quite a place.

All of these companies come here because there is potential for workforce, availability of workforce.

It strikes me that the opportunities for our state are phenomenal if not limitless.

- Definitely.

- What is it you see?

You've worked in different places in the state.

What is it you see in the next 10 years, in the next couple of decades for our state?

The population is increasing rapidly.

- [Karrie] Right.

- There is some degree of prosperity in our state.

There are fantastic educational opportunities for all levels of individuals.

Certainly Elizabeth City State University is making it available for people who otherwise could not attend school financially somewhere else.

- Right.

- What is your general view of where the state is going and how education's gonna play a major role in it?

- Well, I think definitely we're moving in a positive direction as far as workforce development.

That's been a lot of the conversations that we've had with stakeholders, that we've had with business and industry and how important it is for us to understand what their needs are, so that we're able to produce a curriculum that prepares our graduates to go off into these fields and to be successful.

And so as I think about workforce development, we talk a lot at ECSU about our preparation for partnerships with the airline industry.

And we've been able to sign partnerships with United Airlines and Delta Airlines.

And just recently, JetBlue and American Airlines were on campus.

And so now that we know that there's a true need because of the influx of retirements that the aviation industry is encountering now, it's time for us to be able to form those partnerships to say, "Hey, we have a quality program and we're producing quality graduates, no matter if they decide to go into flight or if they decide to go into the financial operations of the airport or the airport industry."

So just an array of opportunities for our students, not just our flight students or not just our aviation students, but those partnerships are much broader than that.

And that's really what we want to contribute to the workforce industry.

In regards to higher education in general, I think in North Carolina we've really moved in the right direction to form those partnerships that are most appealing to these corporations to come to North Carolina.

We have quality institutions all over North Carolina, whether that's, you know, the public institutions or the private institutions.

You know, I think we all are doing our best to produce quality graduates and to produce alumni that are going to go out and do great things no matter what industry they choose.

So to have these companies come to North Carolina to say, "We want to be here because we know we're gonna get a quality product from those who we hire."

You know, it just makes sense.

And we definitely have a big responsibility in preparing our graduates.

And one other piece of that is grooming them, because, you know, I always tell our students: "You can look great on paper, but can you sit in front of, you know, these corporations, their interview teams, and really sell yourself to the point where you're able to seal the deal on a job opportunity."

And so looking at ways that we can help them prepare with those soft skills, those life skills, things that they need in preparation; not just, of course, what they've been able to do in the classroom, even though that's really important as well.

But to have that true balance and to really go in and make their mark.

And I think the more we're able to do that, the more companies that will come to North Carolina because they know that we can produce.

- No question, it's harder to do than meets the eye because you're dealing with an academic community that is embedded in academic protocol.

And so life skills is not necessarily the strength of a university, but it is possible.

- [Karrie] Yes.

- Let me ask you a couple of questions.

The majority of your students come from an immediate area in North Carolina?

- So we're surrounded by 21 counties that are Tier 1, Tier 2 counties in Northeastern North Carolina.

- [Nido] Tier 1, Tier 2 means?

- Means some of the most economically distressed counties in North Carolina.

And so we truly serve the region, the Northeastern region.

- So what percentage come from, let's say, what, a 75-mile radius?

Pick a radius.

- About 75% of our students come from within the region around those 21 counties.

Now, what we've been able to do now with the assessment of how we recruit is go beyond that 21-county region.

So we wanna become a bit broader in how we recruit, and then how, you know, citizens in North Carolina see the opportunity that we offer for a quality education.

But in the past we've really mostly focused on that 21-county region.

- So I have many questions I wanna ask you in the limited time we have left.

One of them is the whole demographic discussion about higher education.

That in the Great Recession people had less babies, and those babies are now 17 years of age.

And so colleges across the country, both public and private, are concerned about a variance in enrollment populations.

Is that a concern for you?

And if yes, why?

And if no, why not?

- Well, it's definitely a concern, because what we're seeing, the demographers are saying the age 18 to 24, we're seeing a decline in that population in Northeastern North Carolina.

We're one of the areas that really are probably gonna see it hit the most, because what we're seeing is more retirees moving to that area to be close to the beach, close to the water.

And so that 18 to 24 population is not sustainable, which is why our recruitment efforts have to be focused much broader than just the 21-county region.

- Adult education.

- Exactly.

- What percentage of the 2,000 are traditional undergrad versus adults?

- About 80% are traditional undergrads.

So we're just now at the peak of trying to strategize and be more intentional about our recruitment of adult learners.

And that's also- - But isn't that a very competitive sphere?

I mean, you have people like University of Phoenix and all these big ones across the country who go after these adult learners everywhere.

- Yes, we have to be able to provide a flexibility around how we deliver our courses: more online course opportunities.

When I started at ECSU, we had one opportunity for online, an online major.

We now have four.

And so we haven't really played in that sandbox as much as I know we need to for the future and for future growth.

And so with the adult learner piece, that's gonna be something we're gonna have to be more intentional and strategic about.

But we're also going to be working closely with the UNC System Office with their launch of their Kitty Hawk effort, where it's gonna help us to offer even more online classes through the university system as well.

- Do you get jealousy from other public universities in the state, that you get, you know, very low tuition versus some of them that have to pay 6 to $9,000 a year?

- Well, we're very grateful that the North Carolina General Assembly decided to go forth with NC Promise.

And, you know, I get some little remarks sometimes when I talk to my colleagues about- - You walk in the room nobody talks to you?

- Yes, how we're able to do that.

But, you know, it's very helpful that the tuition dollars that we would, you know, eventually receive are being supplemented by the state.

And so in doing that, it helps us to continue our operations at the same quality and the same level that we would if we were offering our full tuition.

So we'll see how things go.

It's not guaranteed to continue for a long duration of time.

What we've been told is through 2025, and then there'll be a reassessment around NC Promise to see if it'll go further.

But for now we're very grateful that we have that opportunity to offer a quality education at an affordable price to our students.

- ECSU is is an HBCU?

- Yes.

- Yes.

So let me ask this question that is a concern for society at large and is a concern for higher education for sure: mental health.

- Yes.

- Students' mental health.

We notice that today's young people seem to have a significantly more level of challenges vis-a-vis mental health.

- Yes.

- And it shows up in all kinds of ways: behaviorally and otherwise, emotionally, spiritually, behaviorally.

What is your take on that and what are you doing to deal with that?

- So mental health is definitely a priority, addressing that on our campus.

And a lot of it I think, we're seeing even more so post-pandemic.

Our students have, you know, in their minds, really feel as though they've missed out on a number of things; especially our freshmen, sophomores who actually had to go through the pandemic and missed out on high school graduations and senior high school proms and things that they never actually thought they would miss, you know, things they were looking forward to.

And so mental health has been a great challenge for us all.

And what we're doing in our area, we don't have, I would say the necessary quantity of expertise as it pertains to mental health.

You know, the psychiatry, those that are there on our campus that we need.

So we partner with each other.

We have a partnership with East Carolina University, and it's being funded by grant that we receive from Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina.

And so now we have telepsychiatry that's being administered, that's being offered to our students.

And that has been very helpful because that brings a level of expertise to our campus.

And it is not a necessary, you know, an additional charge or anything like that for our students with the grant: it's offered, it's there.

Another population that we are really keeping our eye on is our student athletes who also face some mental health challenges in general as you think about athletics on campuses; not just at ECSU, but a lot of our student athletes are coming forth and talking about their struggles and what that looks like.

And so we're trying to do more to have those safe spaces on campus, those opportunities to have conversation.

And my students always hear me say, "If you need help, say something.

Don't just sit in your room.

We need to know.

That's what we are here for, is to help you and to help you through those challenges."

So mental health is definitely a priority.

And it will remain a priority because we wanna make sure that we're offering all the support necessary for our students to be successful.

- Well, Dr. Dixon, you're doing great work at ECSU.

Congratulations to you.

- Thank you.

- There's no question that higher education is going through a transitional period.

There's no question that you are committed to transform ECSU in the institution of higher learning it deserves to be.

We thank you for that.

- Thank you.

- We North Carolinians thank you for that.

- Thank you.

- And we wish you the very best in all your goings and all your comings.

And thank you for being with me on "Side By Side" today.

- Thank you.

Greatly appreciate it.

[light music] [light music continues] [light music continues] [light music continues] - [Announcer] Funding for "Side By Side" with Nido Qubein is made possible by... - [Narrator] We started small, just 30 people in a small town in Wisconsin.

75 years later, we employ more Americans than any other furniture brand.

But none of that would've been possible without you.

Ashley, this is home.

- [Narrator] For 60 years, the Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

The Budd Group: Great people, smart service.

- [Narrator] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.