>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: COMING UP IN THE HOUR, AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR KATE DICAMILLO IS HERE FOR HER NEARLY YEARLY VISIT.

WE'LL HEAR ABOUT A NEW EXHIBIT AT FORT SNELLING.

POLITICAL SCIENTISTS WILL FILL THE COUCH.

AND MARY LAHAMMER HEADED NORTH ON I-35 EARLIER THIS WEEK.

>> Mary: DULUTH MAY HAVE THE MOST INTERESTING ELECTION CONTEST IN THE STATE THIS FALL.

WE'LL TAKE YOU TO THE NORTHLAND TO HEAR FROM THE CANDIDATES FOR MAYOR.

>> DULUTH POLITICS HAS A LITTLE BIT OF LIKE IRON RANGE STREET FIGHT IN THERE.

>> THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF A DAVID VERSUS GO LIE YAH SORT OF FEEL.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 27 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> ERIC: LOT OF SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT.

A NEW STUDY OUT ABOUT BIPARTISANSHIP BEHAVIOR AT THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

SHELETTA BRUNDIDGE IS BACK FROM AN AWARD-WINNING TRIP TO D.C. AND WE WILL REMEMBER PIONEERING TWIN CITIES JOURNALIST KAREN BOROS.

>> CATHY: WE START TONIGHT WITH HOW MUCH MONEY MINNESOTANS MAKE.

NEW DATA FROM THE CENSUS BUREAU ON THURSDAY SHOWS ALMOST 10% OF THE STATE'S POPULATION IS LIVING BELOW THE FEDERAL POVERTY LINE, A SLIGHT INCREASE FROM 2021 TO 2022.

AND THE DISPARITY BETWEEN WHITE MINNESOTANS AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR PERSISTS.

JOINING US WITH MORE, SUSAN BROWER IS MINNESOTA'S STATE DEMOGRAPHER, AND SHE TRACKS THESE NUMBERS CLOSELY.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

COMMUNITIES OF OLOR, OH, MY GOODNESS, HAVE THESE EYE-POPPING DISPARITIES.

AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ARE INCREASING A LITTLE BIT IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, BUT THESE DISPARITIES PERSIST.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

>> YEAH, WELL, ESPECIALLY IN THIS MOST RECENT DATA THAT WERE RELEASED THIS WEEK FOR 2022, WE SAW A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE, A SOMETIMES SMALL, BUT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN POVERTY FOR SOME POPULATIONS OF COLOR.

BUT WHAT WE SAW IN 2022 IS STILL LESS THAN WHAT WE WERE SEEING EARLIER ON IN 2001.

IN 2010.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK BACK QUITE A WAYS AND KNOW THAT THE POVERTY RATE HAS BEEN COMING DOWN OVER THE DECADE.

AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IS AN INCREASE, PROBABLY BECAUSE OF DISRUPTIONS DUE TO THE PANDEMIC.

>> Eric: YEAH, DOES THE PANDEMIC SKEW THE NUMBERS?

AS A PROFESSIONAL HOW DO YOU DISCOUNT THAT OR ACCOUNT FOR THAT?

>> WELL, WE JUST USE IT AS CONTEXT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS.

SO WE SAW THAT POVERTY WENT UP FOR, YOU KNOW, ALL MINNESOTANS AFTER THE PANDEMIC.

IN 2021.

AND WE'RE SEEING THAT IT STAYED HIGH IN 2022.

AND WE KNOW THAT DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, THERE WAS HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT.

WHEN WE LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER NUMBERS LIKE MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME, WE KNOW THERE WAS HIGH INFLATION.

AND SO WE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ALL THESE CONTEXTS WHEN WE'RE INTERPRETING, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

>> Cathy: HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT INCOME LEVELS, SAY, FOR OTHER GROUPS LIKE OLDER MINNESOTANS?

AND BREAK IT OUT IN GENDERS TOO?

>> YEAH, SO I'VE LOOKED AT THE POVERTY LEVEL FOR OLDER MINNESOTANS AND GENERALLY WHAT WE SEE, IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE SEEN FOR MINNESOTA OVERALL.

WE'VE SEEN POVERTY RATES DECLINE OVER THE LAST DECADE.

AND WE'VE SEEN AN UPTICK IN POVERTY FOR OLDER MINNESOTANS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

IT MAY BE DUE TO THE PANDEMIC.

BUT THIS IS ESPECIALLY CONCERNING, I THINK, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE ECONOMIC PICTURE OF OLDER ADULTS.

MANY OF THEM DON'T HAVE PLANS TO REENTER THE WORKFORCE IF THEY HAVE RETIRED OR MAYBE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO SO.

SO WHEN WE SEE THE POVERTY RATE TICK UP FOR OLDER ADULTS, IT'S ESPECIALLY CONCERNING.

>> Eric: FOR EVERY DOLLAR A MAN MAKES, A WOMAN MAKES?

>> H, NO.

[ Laughter ] >> Eric: IT'S BEEN IN THE 70s FOR QUITE A WHILE.

I THINK IT'S ABOVE 80 NOW.

>> THAT'S A PRETTY COMPLICATED QUESTION.

>> Eric: IS IT?

ALL RIGHT, WE'LL DO THAT NEXT TIME.

ALL RIGHT, HOW ABOUT FULL TIME WORKING MEN, HOW ARE THEY DOING?

>> WELL, WHAT WE'VE SEEN FOR MOST GROUPS IN TERMS OF EMPLOYMENT GENERALLY IS WE'VE SEEN EMPLOYMENT GROW OVER -- IT'S A SIMILAR STORY TO WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING.

WE'VE SEEN EMPLOYMENT ROW OVER THE LAST DECADE, AND THEN WE SAW IT DECLINE SINCE THE PANDEMIC.

WE'VE SEEN IT GROW A LITTLE BIT SINCE THAT TIME.

IN 2022.

BUT IT HASN'T FULLY BOUNCED BACK TO WHERE WE WERE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

SAME IS TRUE FOR WOMEN.

IT'S TRUE ACROSS MANY POPULATION GROUPS.

>> Cathy: SO THIS IS 2022 DATA.

A YEAR OLD.

MIGHT THERE BE A BIGGER CHANGES, MAYBE BASED ON TRENDS YOU'RE SEEING THAT'S IN THIS COMING YEAR, 2023?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO WE CAN LOOK AT UNEMPLOYMENT DATA MORE RECENTLY SINCE THESE DATA WERE COLLECTED FROM OTHER SOURCES.

AND WE KNOW THAT UNEMPLOYMENT HAS DECLINED.

SO WE HOPE IN THE FUTURE THAT WE SEE HIGHER INCOMES.

WE KNOW THAT THE INFLATION RATE IS NOT GROWING AS FAST AS IT WAS DURING THIS PERIOD.

SO WE THINK THAT WE HOPEFULLY WILL SEE PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO AFFORD BASIC LIVING EXPENSES GROW BECAUSE OF THE INFLATION CHANGE.

SO WE'VE GOT A LITTLE SNEAK PEEK INTO WHAT WE HOPE WE'LL SEE WHEN THE 2023 NUMBERS COME OUT.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE YOU COMING OVER.

THANKS.

>> YEAH, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

♪♪ >> ERIC: IT'S ONE OF OUR FAVORITE SEGMENTS.

ABOUT ONCE A YEAR, AUTHOR KATE DICAMILLO STOPS BY FOR A VISIT.

WE TALK ABOUT HER NEW BOOKS AND PROJECTS.

SHE MAKES FUN OF ME.

AND A GRAND TIME IS HAD BY ALL.

>> YOU MAKE FUN OF ME, YEAH.

>> Eric: HER LATEST BOOK, "THE PUPPETS OF SPELHORST," IS DUE OUT NEXT MONTH.

IT'S THE FIRST INSTALLMENT IN A TRIO OF NOVELLAS ENTITLED "THE NORENDY TALES."

HERE TO TALK MORE ABOUT WRITING, FAIRY TALES, AND HER RECENT PROFILE IN "THE NEW YORKER" MAGAZINE, KATE DICAMILLO.

ALL RIGHT, PUN "THE PUPPETS OF SPELHORST."

>> I'M LOOKING AT YOUR NOTES, AND I'M THINKING, OH BOY!

>> Cathy: YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE THIS.

>> Eric: TALKING ANIMALS AGAIN, BUT THIS TIME THEY'RE PUPPETS.

>> SOME OF THEM ARE ANIMALS, SOME OF THEM ARE PEOPLE.

>> Eric: A WOLF LOSES A COUPLE OF TEETH.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> Eric: THE BOY GETS TALCUM POWDER DUMPS ON HIS HEAD.

>> Cathy: AT LEAST HE READ THE BOOK.

>> I WAS PLEASED.

IT'S KIND OF LIKE HE'S ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS AT THE END OF READING IT IN CLASS.

WHO GETS TAL KU78 GETS TALCUM POWDER -- WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> Cathy: HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.

HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE BOOK.

[ Laughter ] >> HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE BOOK?

WHAT?

>> Eric: ARE YOU YEAM EMMA IN THE BOOK?

>> I'M NOT IN THE BOOK.

NO, NO, AND SOMEBODY ELSE ASKED ME THAT QUESTION.

SO IN ORDER FOR -- I MEAN, TO TALK ABOUT EMMA, I WOULD HAVE TO GIVE AWAY BIG PLOT POINTS AND EVEN THOUGH THINK THERE AREN'T ANY, THERE ARE PLOT POINTS IN THERE AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE 'EM AWAY.

>> Eric: YES, MA'AM.

>> YEAH, SO A LOT HAPPENS IN THIS BOOK.

A LOT OF IT INVOLVES PUPPETS.

I DO HAVE A STRANGE MIND.

IT IS A STORY THAT EVERYTHING COMES TOGETHER AT THE END.

AND PEOPLE AND PUPPETS REALIZE THEIR DESTINIES.

>> Eric: MORE SERIOUSLY, YOU'VE GOT JOY AND DESPAIR, ONE OF THE CHARACTERS FEELS THAT TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME.

YOU GOT TRUTH, WONDER, AND SORROW.

NOW, I HAD READ YOUR NEW YORKER PROFILE AND YOU TALK ABOUT AN ABUSIVE FATHER AND, YOU KNOW, SOME REAL TOUGH PERSONAL STUFF.

IS ANY OF THIS REFLECTED IN THESE KIND OF CHARACTERISTICS?

>> YES.

YEAH.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING ALL ALONG.

EVER SINCE I STARTED WRITING.

THOSE THEMES HAVE -- I'VE BEEN WRESTLING WITH THEM THE WHOLE TIME.

AND, YOU KNOW, MY DAD IS PASSED, SO I CAN TALK ABOUT SOME OF THESE THINGS NOW.

AND, YEAH, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO TELL STORIES IS THAT I CAN FIND A WAY TO MAKE SENSE OUT OF WHAT HAPPENED TO ME AS A KID.

AND MAYBE HELP ANOTHER KID FEEL SAFE AND LESS ALONE.

>> Cathy: I ALWAYS FIGURED THERE WAS MORE TO THE STORY ABOUT WHY YOU WENT TO FLORIDA WITH YOUR MOM AND YOUR BROTHER.

I'M GLAD YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, SHARING DARKER PIECES OF ONE'S SELF WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD IS NOT EASY.

OBVIOUSLY.

THAT NEW YORKER PIECE WAS REALLY INTERESTING.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO SHARE NOW?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T LIKE I SAID, COME OUT HERE, NEW YORKER, I'M READY TO TALK, YOU KNOW?

"THE NEW YORKER" SENT CASEY SEPT, THE WRITER, TO DO A PROFILE OF ME.

AND WE TALKED ABOUT EVERYTHING.

AND I JUST BECAUSE OF MY DAD HAVING PASSED, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY ECENTLY, I FELT MORE COMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT ALL OF IT.

AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BOTH JOURNALISTS.

YOU ASK THE QUESTIONS.

AND -- AND I ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS.

SO IT WASN'T LIKE I EVEN -- YOU KNOW, AFTER SHE LEFT, I THOUGHT, OH, BOY, I'VE SAID EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW?

>> Eric: BUT WITHOUT THE EXPERIENCE AS A YOUNG PERSON, YOU WOULDN'T OBVIOUSLY BE THE ARTIST YOU ARE TODAY, AND SO IN A WEIRD WAY, IT SHAPES INCREDIBLE SUCCESS.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE IN ALL THE TIMES THAT I'VE GONE AND TALKED TO GROUPS AND KIDS AND STUFF, THAT COMES UP.

YOU KNOW, YEAH, I WAS SICK A LOT.

AND THAT HELPED ME TO LEARN TO LIVE IN MY IMAGINATION, LIVE IN MY HEAD.

AND YEAH, THIS SORROW WITH MY FATHER ALSO -- I DON'T KNOW THAT I'D BE A WRITER WITHOUT IT.

SO -- WE'RE HAVING A SERIOUS CONVERSATION.

SHOULD WE TALK ABOUT ERIC'S HAIR?

>> Cathy: WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT IN JUST A MOMENT, YES.

BUT FIRST, JUST GETTING BACK TO ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT THE FAMILY ISSUES, ECAUSE THEY CAN SEEP INTO YOUR PERSONAL LIFE AND YOU CAN CARRY THAT BAGGAGE WITH YOU FOR YEARS AND YEARS AS AN ADULT.

DO YOU THINK YOU FINALLY HAVE PURGED SOME OF THIS?

AND DO YOU FEEL A LITTLE MORE WHOLE NOW?

>> YEAH, I'VE SET T DOWN.

I'VE SET IT DOWN.

AND IN THE SHORT TIME THAT "THE NEW YORKER" ARTICLE HAS BEEN OUT, PEOPLE HAVE SAID TO ME, THAT IT HAS HELPED THEM TO HEAR, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THAT'S THE THING IS YOU TELL YOUR HARD TRUTH, AND IT HELPS SOMEBODY ELSE WITH THEIR HARD TRUTH.

YEAH.

[Overlapping conversations] >> Eric: I WENT TO THE BARBER, AND I SAID GIVE ME A MODIFIED DICAMILLO.

AND THIS IS WHAT WE GOT.

>> THAT WAS EVEN BETTER THAN I THOUGHT.

[ Laughter ] >> Eric: WE HAVE THE SAME COLORIST.

[ Laughter ] >> A MODIFIED DICAMILLO.

I LIKE IT.

>> Cathy: HE'S BEEN ACCUSED OF BEING ALBERT EINSTEIN.

DID YOU SEE THAT RECENTLY?

OR COLONEL SANDERS.

TAKE YOUR PICK.

>> I LIKE IT.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU GOT COMING UP?

YOU GOT A BIG NOVEL COMING UP.

>> I GOT A NOVEL COMING UP.

I'VE GOT THE PUPPETS OMING UP.

I'VE GOT THE ANNIVERSARY OF -- 20 YEARS.

AND REMEMBER WE DID THAT LITTLE BIT HERE I CAUGHT OU READING.

YEAH, YOU GUYS SHOULD PLAY THAT AGAIN.

>> Cathy: WE WILL, ABSOLUTELY.

I WANT TO ASK ABOUT FERRIS, BECAUSE THAT'S LIKE NORMAL HAPPY FAMILY.

>> RIGHT?

I KNOW.

YAY, ME!

FINALLY DID IT, RIGHT?

[ Laughter ] >> Eric: WELL, COME BACK WHEN YOU GOT SOMETHING TO PLUG, OKAY?

>> Cathy: CONSCIENTIOUS PLUGGING IT RIGHT NOW -- SHE'S PLUGGING IT RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S THE THING.

>> I'M GOING TO GO AND ASK FOR A MODIFIED DICAMILLO MYSELF AT THE HAIR DRESSER AND SEE WHAT I GOT.

♪♪ >> CATHY: A NEW EXHIBIT AT HISTORIC FORT SNELLING ENTITLED, "MANY VOICES, MANY STORIES, ONE PLACE" OPENS TO THE PUBLIC ON SATURDAY.

IT LOOKS TO EXPLORE A COMPLETE HISTORY OF THE SITE WITH MORE DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES, INCLUDING OJIBWE AND DAKOTA PEOPLE'S HISTORY AT FORT SNELLING AND WHAT IS KNOWN AS BDOTE.

AMBER ANNIS IS THE DIRECTOR OF NATIVE AMERICAN INITIATIVES AT M.H.S.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> Cathy: THIS IS QUITE THE EXHIBIT.

EXPLAIN JUST BASICALLY WHAT IT'D ALL ABOUT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE EXHIBIT REALLY STARTS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 12,000 YEARS AGO.

[ Laughter ] THE HISTORIC FORT SNELLING, MANY VOICES, MANY STORES, ONE PLACE, TELLS A REALLY ROBUST STORY OF OF ONE OF MINNESOTA'S OLDEST NATIONAL LANDMARKS ...

BUT IT'S ALSO A REALLY COMPLICATED HISTORY THERE.

IT'S A SACRED SITE OF CREATION FOR DAKOTA PEOPLE, BUT ALSO STATEMENT, IT IS A SITE OF HARM AND TRAUMA DURING THE US-DAKOTA WAR.

HOWEVER, IT'S A REALLY PROFOUND MILITARY STORY THERE, MILITARY HISTORY, WHICH INCLUDES IN A CASIVE VOICES, AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOICES, JAPANESE AMERICAN VOICES.

SO THAT'S THE DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES THAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT.

>> Cathy: BOY, I AM BETTING THAT YOU PROBABLY HAD TO REALLY CHECK IN WITH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT GROUPS ABOUT HOW BEST TO DO THIS.

WHAT IS THE PROPER WAY TO PRESENT THE HISTORY?

>> ABSOLUTELY, YEAH, THIS EXHIBIT IS SEVERAL YEARS IN THE MAKING.

WE WORKED CLOSELY WITH SEVERAL PARTNERS.

WE HAVE A DAKOTA COMMUNITY COUNCIL.

WE WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE JAPANESE AMERICAN COMMUNITY CITIZEN LEAGUE, FORGIVE ME, CITIZEN LEAGUE.

AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, CITIZENS AROUND MINNESOTA, TRIBAL LEADERS.

YOU KNOW, DIP EMPLOYEE EMPLOYEE MATS, FOLKS THAT HAVE A REAL INVESTMENT IN MINNESOTA.

WHERE DO WE START?

>> Eric: WERE THERE PERIODS OF DISAGREEMENT?

AND HOW DID YOU -- IF THERE WERE, HOW DID YOU NEGOTIATE THEM OUT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, IT'S PUBLIC HISTORY.

THERE'S ALWAYS DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

AND SO THAT'S HE STRUGGLE, BUT IT'S ALSO THE KIND OF BEAUTY OF THIS WORK IS THAT YOU CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE.

YOU CAN DISAGREE.

BUT YOU ALSO CAN FIND THOSE SIMILARITIES AND HOW WE WANT TO LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHER.

SO IT REALLY KIND OF STEMMED DOWN TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND RELATIONSHIPS.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, AMBER, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING TONIGHT SAYING, WAIT A MINUTE, NOW, IS THIS -- ARE WE REWRITING HISTORY BY HAVING SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

BECAUSE WE'VE ALWAYS -- MANY OF US HAVE JUST KNOWN THE FOR FORT AS FORT SNELLING AND YOU GO OUT THERE ON MEMORIAL DAY OR 4TH OF JU.D.

JULY?

WHAT ABOUT THOSE CRITICS?

>> I WELCOME THEM TO COME DOWN AND VEX THE EXHIBIT, VIEW ORT SNELLING, BECAUSE IT'S NOT RECRAIG HISTORY.

IT REALLY IS ENHANCING HISTORY.

IT'S ENHANCING THE POWER THAT THAT SITE HAS.

IT'S ENHANCING THE STORIES THAT ARE TOLD THERE.

IT IS A STRONG MILITARY STORY.

IT'S A STRONG SITE OF PRIDE AND DIPLOMACY.

BUT AGAIN, ANOTHER PART OF THAT IS A REALLY CONTESTED HISTORY.

SO FOR US, AT THE MINNESOTA HISTORICAL SOCIETY, WE ARE COMMITTED TO MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE TELLING THOSE OTHER STORIES.

>> Eric: SO WHEN PEOPLE GO OUT THERE, AND AS THEY'RE LEAVING, WHAT DO THEY TAKE WITH THEM, DO YOU THINK?

VISITORS?

>> WELL, I HOPE FIRST THEY TAKE WITH THEM, I HAVE TO GO BACK.

BECAUSE IT IS A PLACE WHERE YOU DEFINITELY -- YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO -- YOU'LL NEED A COUPLE TRIPS O REALLY ABSORB IT ALL.

BUT MY HOPE AND GOAL AND WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM SEVERAL PEOPLE, TODAY INCLUDED, SOMEONE CAME THERE SAYING, I DIDN'T WANT TO COME THIS MORNING BECAUSE IT WAS THE MILITARY FORT.

I HAD NO IDEA THESE STORIES EXISTED THERE.

AND I FEEL SO BETTER AS A CITIZEN OF MINNESOTA KNOWING THESE STORIES NOW.

>> Eric: THAT'S A SUCCESS IN AND OF ITSELF.

>> IT REALLY CERTAINLY WAS ON A RAINY FRIDAY MORNING.

>> Cathy: THIS IS A NEW EXHIBIT.

BUT DOES THE FORT ALSO HAVE OTHER EXHIBITS YOU'RE GOING TO BE PLACING THERE TO JUST TO REALLY COLOR IN THE HISTORY IN A SENSE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO THIS NEW EXHIBIT THAT OPENED UP REALLY KIND OF TIES TOGETHER A LOT OF OTHER REVITALIZATION WORK HAT WE'VE DONE.

IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE OLD FORT, AND YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, AND YOU ARRIVE NOW, AND WE'VE REVITALIZED THE LANDSCAPE.

WE REALLY TURNED TO THE ENVIRONMENT TO HELP US TELL THESE STORIES, SO WE HAVE INTERPRETIVE PIECES OUT THERE.

WE HAVE INTERPRETIVE ART PIECES.

WE ARE GETTING READY TO DO SOME MORE PUBLIC ART PIECES AROUND, YOU KNOW, OUT IN FORT SNELLING.

>> Eric: CAN'T WAIT TO GO.

>> OH, WE RE SO EXCITED.

CAN'T WAIT TO HAVE YOU OUT THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

APPRECIATE YOU.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> MARK: ISN'’T IT WEIRD THAT YOU CAN SMELL OTHER PEOPLE, BUT YOU CAN'T ALWAYS SMELL YOURSELF?

OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT WALK BY YOU AND THINK, "“WHEW, GYM CLASS,"” BUT UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN WORKING IN A BARNYARD, YOU MIGHT HAVE NO IDEA.

OVER TIME, WE GET DESENSITIZED TO OUR OWN SWEAT GLANDS.

WE ALL GO THROUGH THIS, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US WHO WERE ONCE BOYS.

OUR BODIES START TO CHANGE AROUND AGE 12, WHICH IS WHY TEACHERS HAND OUT DEODORANT IN THE SIXTH GRADE.

HUMANS ARE GENERALLY PRETTY GOOD AT SMELLING STUFF.

WE CAN PICK OUT UP TO A TRILLION DIFFERENT SCENTS, AND WE CAN SMELL SOME OF THEM BETTER THAN DOGS CAN.

IT'’S IMPORTANT BECAUSE ODORS ARE SOMETIMES A CLUE TO CERTAIN DISEASES.

THEY TEACH US THIS IN MEDICAL SCHOOL, BUT YOU DON'T REALLY GET IT UNTIL ONE DAY YOU SEE A PATIENT WITH THAT FRUITY, SWEET SMELL CAUSED BY DIABETES.

PARKINSON'S, LIVER PROBLEMS, KIDNEY DISEASE, THEY CAN ALL HAVE THEIR OWN DISTINCT SMELL.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE DR. HOUSE, M.D., TO FIGURE IT OUT.

DOCTORS TEST THE SENSE OF SMELL AS ONE OF THE BASIC NERVE FUNCTIONS.

IN THE HOSPITAL, WE CARRIED AROUND LITTLE JARS OF COFFEE GROUNDS TO TEST PATIENTS, AFTER WE DRANK ALL THE COFFEE.

SMELL IS ALSO IMPORTANT WHEN WE ATTRACT A MATE.

DIFFERENT AROMAS CAN TELL US WHICH PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE A COMPATIBLE GENETIC MAKEUP.

IN A SENSE, THAT MEANS PUTTING ON PERFUME OR AFTER-SHAVE BEFORE A DATE IS A TRICK WE PLAY ON POTENTIAL PARTNERS, LIKE WEARING SHOULDER PADS OR A WIG.

ALL THIS IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT NOW BECAUSE LOTS OF PEOPLE LOST THEIR SENSE OF SMELL DURING COVID.

NOT THAT PEOPLE WERE DATING IN PERSON THEN ANYWAY.

YOU CAN'’T SMELL ANYTHING OVER ZOOM.

SO EVENTUALLY WE ALL GET USED TO OUR OWN SMELL.

LUCKILY, EXPERTS SAY YOU CAN HELP RESENSITIZE IT BY SMELLING SOMEWHERE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF SWEAT GLANDS, LIKE THE BACK OF YOUR HAND.

THAT MIGHT WORK, BUT YOU'’RE GOING TO GET SOME FUNNY LOOKS.

BETTER CARRY SOME COFFEE GROUNDS, JUST IN CASE.

♪♪ >> ERIC: OUR NEXT GUEST IS A FAMILIAR FACE, BUT SHE IS USUALLY STANDING ACROSS THE STUDIO BY THE BIG MONITOR.

TONIGHT SHELETTA BRUNDIDGE IS JOINING US AT THE TABLE.

WHEN SHE'S NOT DELIVERING WITTY REMARKS HERE ON "ALMANAC," SHE HEADS UP HER OWN PODCASTING AND PRODUCTION COMPANY, "SHELETTA MAKES ME LAUGH."

BRUNDIDGE WAS IN WASHINGTON, D.C., EARLIER THIS WEEK BEING RECOGNIZED AS A FINALIST FOR THE NATIONAL SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION'S ADVOCATE OF THE YEAR.

WHILE IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL, SHE MET WITH SEVERAL MEMBERS OF MINNESOTA'S CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION, HAND-DELIVERING LETTERS TO THEM FROM MINNESOTA BLACK BUSINESS OWNERS.

SHELETTA -- [ Laughter ] THE >> Cathy: YOU TOOK D.C. BY STORM.

>> I DID.

I TOOK OVER D.C.

IT WAS A GREAT TIME.

>> Eric: YOU HAVE SO MANY IRONS IN THE FIRE.

WHY THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT MATTER?

TO TAKE AN INTEREST?

>> WELL, I'VE BEEN A BUSINESS OWNER FOR THREER THREE YEARS, AND I JUST COULD NOT BELIEVE THE BARRIERS THAT WERE IN PLACE TO BLACK ENTREPRENEURS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I CAN MAKE A CALL OR TWO AND GET CONNECTED TO SOME PEOPLE.

BUT THERE'S SO MANY, HUNDREDS OF OTHER BLACK BUSINESS OWNERS, WHO ARE CALLING ME, AND SAYING, SHELETTA, CAN YOU HELP ME GET TO THIS PERSON, FIND A BANK, FIND A GRANT OR FORGIVABLE LOANS OR LICENSES?

>> I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE IT JUST ABOUT ME.

IT IS ABOUT ME A LITTLE BIT.

BUT I'M GOING TO TAKE THE CONCERNS OF HUNDREDS OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN BUSINESS OWNERS.

SO WE HAD A LETTER WRITING EVENT.

AND -- >> Eric: HOW MANY LETTERS WERE WRITTEN?

>> AT LEAST LIKE 102.

AND I MADE COPIES AND I HAND-DELIVERED THEM TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE REPRESENTATIVES IN OUR D.C. DELEGATION.

AND I MADE SURE THAT THEY GOT THOSE LETTERS.

SOME OF THEM JUST WANTED TALK -- SOME OF THEM HAD SPECIFIC INFORMATION FOR BETTY MECHANIC CAPITOL YUM BECAUSE THOSE BUSINESSES WERE IN THEIR DISTRICT.

AND SOME OF THE BUSINESSES HAVE EVEN GOTTEN CALLS BACK ALREADY.

AND I WAS UST THERE A COUPLE DAYS.

>> Cathy: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, DO YOU THINK YOU WERE LISTENED TO?

BECAUSE SOMETIMES POLITICIANS LIKE TO HAVE A PHOTO OP, AND THEN THEY FORGET ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH, THIS WAS NOT A PHOTO OP.

I SPENT TOO MUCH MONEY ON BABE SITTERS AND FLIGHTS AND MEALS AND HOTELS FOR THIS TO BE A PHOTO OP.

WE NEED REAL CHANGE.

THESE BUSINESSES WANT TO GO FROM JUST SURVIVING TO THRIVING.

AND WITH A LITTLE BIT OF HELP.

HAD HE CAN DO JUST THAT.

>> Eric: I WAS GOING TO ASK, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE POTENTIAL IS, UPSIDE POTENTIAL FOR GROWING BLACK BUSINESSES AND BLACK BUSINESS WNERS IN MINNESOTA?

>> EXPOSURE.

ONCE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THEM, ONCE PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY'RE THERE AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR CONCERNS-THEY CAN PATRONIZE THEM.

AND EVERY BLACK BUSINESS OWNER WHO WROTE A LETTER, THERE WAS A PURPOSE BEHIND THAT BUSINESS.

ERASING THE DISPARITIES IN ORAL METH CARE.

MENTAL HEALTH.

TEEN MENTAL HEALTH.

EMPOWERMENT.

YOGA, HEALTH AND FITNESS.

ALL OF THESE BUSINESS OWNERS NOT ONLY HAD A COMPANY BUT THEY HAVE A MISSION.

AND TO GET BEHIND THAT MISSION AND TO LET THEM KNOW YOU'RE SEEN, YOU'RE HEARD, YOU ARE CELEBRATED, YOUR APPRECIATED.

NOW, HERE'S IN GRANTS, SOME INFRASTRUCTURE, HERE'S SOME ACCESS TO TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, HERE'S SOME MENTORING.

>> Cathy: WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST SURPRISE TO YOU?

WHEN YOU GOT THERE?

AND BECAUSE YOU'RE WENDING YOUR WAY THROUGH THE HALLS OF CONGRESS.

IT AN BE KIND OF INTIMIDATING.

>> THE BIGGEST SURPRISE WAS JUST HOW DOWN TO EARTH OUR DELEGATION IS.

YOU KNOW, I WALKED IN, BETTY MCCOLLUM CAME OUT, SHE WAS I CAN, OH, HEY, COME IN HERE.

AND SHE JUST HAD ON HER CH COMPREHENSIVE OS DRESS AND COMFORTABLE SLIEWS AND WE SAT IN THERE AND WE LAUGHED AND TALKED, BUT JUST HOW MINNESOTA NICE EVERYBODY REALLY WAS.

HOW THEY ACTUALLY READ THESE LETTERS AND HOW THEY PASSED TELL ALONG TO THEIR STAFF.

THEY HAD THE STAFF IN THERE AS WELL.

AND IF THIS WAS A PHOTO OP, THESE ENTREPRENEURS WOULDN'T ALREADY BE GETTING CALLSES BACK.

AND LOOK FOR SOME ACCOUNTABILITY >> WE'RE GOING TO INVITE THOSE LEGISLATORS AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM TELL US EXACTLY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.

WE WANT TO SEE, YOU KNOW, SOME REAL CHANGE.

WE WANT TO SEE SOME REAL GROWTH.

WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE'S BUSINESSES BEING HELPED AND BLESSED IN SOME KIND OF WAY.

YOU KNOW, AND THE ONE THING THAT I NEED THESE BUSINESS OWNERS TO UNDERSTAND IS, THEY'RE HERE FOR US.

WE'RE NOT HERE FOR THEM.

SO THIS IS OPENING THE DOOR TO ACCESS.

SO NOW I GOT ONE BUSINESS OWNER, A.J.

PASHA, HE'S GOING UP FOR AN EVENT IN D.C., AND HE'S GOING TO MEET WITH TINA SMITH.

SHE READ HIS LETTER.

AND SO HE'S ALREADY SET UP THAT APPOINTMENT.

>> Cathy: MAKING CONNECTIONS.

THAT'S GOOD.

>> Eric: SHELETTA BRUNDIDGE, EVERYBODY.

♪♪ >> CATHY: EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE TWIN CITIES LOST A PIONEERING JOURNALIST AND BROADCASTER.

KAREN BOROS DIED ON SUNDAY AT THE AGE OF 82.

BOROS WAS A FIXTURE AT WCCO TELEVISION BACK IN THE 1970s AND '80s, COVERING THE LEGISLATURE FOR MORE THAN A DECADE AND LEADING THE WAY FOR FEMALE JOURNALISTS IN PLACES THAT HAD BEEN MOSTLY COVERED BY MALE REPORTERS.

BOROS MOVED ON TO THE CBS NEWS BUREAU IN CHICAGO AND LATER WOULD WORK AT MINNESOTA PUBLIC RADIO, HERE AT TWIN CITIES PBS, AND AS A JOURNALISM PROFESSOR AT ST. THOMAS UNIVERSITY FOR 20 YEARS.

AS KAREN WAS GETTING READY TO HEAD OFF TO CBS IN CHICAGO IN 1985, SHE STOPPED BY THE OLD "ALMANAC" STUDIO AND TALKED ABOUT THE MOVE.

HERE'S A PART OF THAT CONVERSATION.

>> WITH YOUR LEAVING NOW, WOULD YOU HAVE SPECIAL RECOMMENDATIONS OR IF YOU HAD YOUR WAY, HOW WOULD YOU CHANGE THE WAY TELEVISION COVERS THE LEGISLATURE?

>> OH, I WOULD PUT FIVE OR SIX REPORTERS AND FIVE OR SIX CAMERAS AND JUST GIVE THEM A HALF AN HOUR EVERY NIGHT.

>> WOULD YOU REALLY?

>> NO, I WOULD GIVE THEM, I THINK, MORE TIME IN -- PLUS, WE'VE GOT TO, AS TELEVISION REPORTERS BECOME BETTER AT RELATING THOSE LEGISLATIVE STORIES.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS ALSO GOES FOR PRINT REPORTERS.

RELATING THOSE LEGISLATIVE STORIES TO THE WAY EOPLE LIVE THEIR LIVES.

WE GET VERY WRAPPED UP IN THE CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES AND BETWEEN THE TWO BODIES.

AND DOES THAT REALLY MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL TO THE PEOPLE OUT IN THE COFFEE SHOP IN CRYSTAL?

>> WOULD YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO HOW THE LEGISLATURE OUGHT TO CHANGE THE WAY IT DOES THINGS?

>> NO, I THINK THEY'VE GOT PLENTY OF OPTIONS THEY'VE THOUGHT UP ON THEIR OWN.

>> KAREN BOROS, WE'LL BE LOOKING TO SEE YOU CBS NATIONAL NEWS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

♪♪ >> ERIC: LOCAL LITERARY JOURNAL "MIZNA" WAS ONE OF SEVEN RECIPIENTS OF THIS YEAR'S WHITING LITERARY MAGAZINE PRIZES.

THE JOURNAL, PUBLISHED HERE IN ST. PAUL, WILL RECEIVE $60,000 OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS IN RECOGNITION OF THE HIGH QUALITY OF ITS WORK.

BOTH THE JOURNAL AND ITS PARENT ORGANIZATION OF THE SAME NAME PROVIDE A PLATFORM FOR ARAB, SOUTHWEST ASIAN, AND NORTH AFRICAN CREATIVES, CELEBRATING THEIR ARTS AND CULTURE NOT JUST IN THE JOURNAL BUT ALSO IN CLASSES, PERFORMANCES, AND THE LONG-RUNNING ANNUAL TWIN CITIES ARAB FILM FESTIVAL.

LANA BARKAWI IS MIZNA'S EXECUTIVE AND ARTISTIC DIRECTOR, AND JOINING US REMOTELY FROM CHICAGO IS EXECUTIVE EDITOR GEORGE ABRAHAM.

GEORGE, JOE WITH YOU WITH US?

>> YES.

>> Eric: TELL US HOW SIGNIFICANT THIS AWARD IS IN TERMS OF THE MONEY AND HIGHER PROFILE AND SO FORTH.

>> I MEAN, IT'S GREAT.

IT'S ONE OF THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS NATIONAL LITERARY MAGAZINE AWARDS ... OFTENTIMES LITERARY MAGAZINES ARE SO OVERLOOKED, YOU KNOW, IN LITERARY SOCIETY IN THE U.S. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW KEY SPACES THAT ACTUALLY SUPPORTS THE CRUCIAL WORK WE DO THAT PLATFORMS AND MAKES VISIBLE AND MAKES ACCESSIBLE, YOU KNOW, A BROADER RANGE OF ARTISTS IN OUR COMMUNITY.

NEWER ARTISTS, ALONGSIDE ESTABLISHED, YOU KNOW, LEGENDARY ARTISTS LIKE -- WHO CONSISTENTLY APPEARS IN OUR JOURNAL.

AND SO WE'RE JUST SO EXCITED TO JUST GET THIS GRANT AND JUST GET TO CONTINUE DOING THIS KIND OF WORK.

>> Cathy: TELL FOLKS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PLATFORM AND THE JOURNAL, WHAT IT'S ABOUT?

>> SO, YEAH, "MIZNA" IS, AS YOU SAID A PLATFORM FOR LITERATURE AND FILM.

AND SO WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE JOURNAL AND THE JOURNAL'S REALLY A PLATFORM FOR POETRY AND WRITING AND VISUAL ART FROM OUR COMMUNITY.

SO THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING A SPACE FOR OUR COMMUNITY TO SORT OF TAKE OUR NARRATIVE AND DO WORK ON OUR OWN TERMS.

SO THE POETS AND PROSE WRITERS THAT WE PUBLISH ARE JUST INCREDIBLE, AND THIS AWARD REALLY IS A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY TO PUT A SPOTLIGHT ON THEM.

WE'RE REALLY ONLY AS GOOD AS THEY ARE.

AND SO IT'S REALLY A GREAT KIND OF ELEVATION OF THEIR WORK.

>> Eric: IS THIS ORGANIZATION UNIQUE IN THE COUNTRY?

>> IT IS QUITE RARE TO HAVE AN ARAB AND SWANA ART SPACES.

THERE ARE ONLY A FEW AROUND THE COUNTRY.

AND E'RE THE ONLY PRINT JOURNAL OF OUR KINDS AND WE'VE BEEN IN PUBLICATION SINCE 1999.

WE'RE COMING UP ON OUR 25TH ANNIVERSARY NEXT YEAR.

>> Cathy: GEORGE, HOW WILL THIS MONEY BE USED?

>> SO WE HAVE SORT OF TWO MAIN WAYS WE'RE GOING TO EXPAND.

FIRST OFF, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN SO DEDICATED TO THE PRINT MEDIUM SPECIFICALLY.

LIKE, ANYONE WHO OWNS LIKE OUR JOURNALS CAN SEE, WE OFTEN HAVE, YOU KNOW, REALLY ELABORATE ARTWORK AND FOLDS OUT SO YOU CAN SEE POPES SPANNING SEVERAL PAGES, AND THIS IS OUR BLACK SAWANNA ISSUE THAT IS GUEST EDITED BY AN ENTIRE TAKE OVER TEAM LED BY AN AMAZING SUDANIZE AMERICAN POET.

AND HERE, WE MADE THIS INCREDIBLE HUGE COLLAGE TYPE VISUAL.

AND PIECE HAT ALSO HAS NARRATIVE ELEMENTS S WELL.

AND SO WE WANT TO CONTINUE KIND OF BEING A SHEPHERD AND BEING A HOME FOR THESE KIND OF INNOVATIVE, YOU KNOW, PRINT PRACTICES, WHERE ARTISTS AND POETS CAN COME TO US WITH THE CRAZIEST, MOST WACKIEST IDEA, SAYING, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO WRITE A POPE THAT POPS OUT AND THAT DOES THESE WEIRD VISUAL THINGS.

BACK IN OUR EXPERIMENTAL ISSUES FEW YEARS AGO.

AND IT'S KIND OF CONTINUED AND STEAM ROLLED INTO LIKE EVEN BIGGER AND BIGGER IDEAS.

SO PART OF IT IS THAT VISUAL ELEMENT.

INCREASINGLY, THE LANDSCAPE IS ONLINE AND DIGITAL.

AND SO WE WANT TO EXPAND DIGITALLY IN WAYS THAT HONOR AND UPLIFT THIS PRINT PRACTICE AS WELL.

AND JUST CONTINUE BEING A VENUE FOR ARTISTS IN OUR COMMUNITY TO APPROACH US AND SAY, HEY, WE HAVE A WEIRD IDEA.

WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS EVER GOING TO BE POSSIBLE, BUT, YOU KNOW, "MIZNA" IS THE KIND OF PLACE WHERE WE WANT PEOPLE TO BRING US THE IMPOSSIBLE IDEAS, AND WE WANT TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR OUR IDEAS.

>> Cathy: I'M REALLY GLAD THAT YOU WOULD GO AHEAD AND FOCUS YOUR EFFORTS -- I KIND OF LIKE HAVING SOMETHING IN PRINT.

THERE'S SOMETHING SPECIAL ABOUT HAVING THE TACTILE.

I THINK THE JOURNAL IN FRONT OF ME, YOU KNOW?

BUT LISTENING TO GEORGE, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU MIGHT MAKE SOME CHANGES AND MAYBE EXPAND THE DIGITAL GOT PRINT WHICH MAKES SENSE.

>> YES, WE'RE ABSOLUTELY DEDICATED TO THE PRINT JOURNAL, EVEN THOUGH PRINTING COSTS CONTINUE TO SKY ROCKET.

BUT WE'RE DEDICATED TO THAT.

WE WORK WITH A LOCAL PRINTER AND DESIGNERS AND WE'RE JUST -- IT'S REALLY A BIG FOCUS.

BUT WE ALSO REALIZE AS A BOTTLENECK, AND IT'S AN ACCESSIBLEILITY ISSUE.

AND IT'S IS A NABBING ROE NISESSIC AT THIS POINT REALLY NOT TO BE ONLINE WITH THE JOURNAL.

WE'RE ALSO GOING TO USE THE FUNDS TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT WRITERS WHERE WE PAY WRITERS FOR THEIR WORK, AND THAT'S NOT OFTEN THE CASE IN THE LITERARY MAGAZINE WORLD BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, THE REALITIES OF NON-PROFIT PUBLISHING, BUDGETS.

BUT IT'S BEEN A PRIORITY FOR US.

SO WE'RE HOPING TO INCREASE THOSE AS WELL.

>> Cathy: AND ARE YOU ALSO HOPING THAT THIS CAN BE A SPRING BOARD, AND MAYBE GEORGE, YOU CAN CHIME IN HERE TOO.

A SPRING BOARD FOR NATIONAL, INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION FOUR SOME OF YOUR WRITERS BY BEING IN THE JOURNAL.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, LIKE GEORGE SAID, WE'RE OFTEN A SPACE FOR ESTABLISHED AUTHORS WHO HAVE ALREADY -- THEIR STARSSTARS HAVE ALREADY RISEN AND THEY'RE SHARING SPACE WE MERGING WRITERS.

YOU KNOW, MANY AUTHORS OF OUR OURS, MANY POETS, IT'S THEIR FIRST PUBLICATION.

AND SO THAT SHARED SPACE IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US.

AND IT'S TRUE, THESE MOMENTS OF VISIBILITY ARE JUST CRUCIAL.

>> Eric: HOW ABOUT THE TWIN CITIES ARAB FILM FESTIVAL?

TELL US ABOUT THAT?

>> OUR 17TH EDITION IS COMING UP AT THE END OF THE MONTH.

IT OPENS ON SEPTEMBER 27TH AT THE WALKER ART CENTER.

AND IT RUNS THROUGH OCTOBER 1ST.

MOST OF THE FESTIVAL IS AT THE MAIN CINEMA.

BUT WE HAVE SOME FUN OFF SITE EVENTS AND CLOSING NIGHT OUTDOOR SCREENING WITH BABA'S FOOD TRUCK AND A D.J.

WE'RE FOCUSING ON PALESTINIAN FILMS.

WE HAVE A BIG FOCUS ON WOMEN FILMMAKERS BY 2/3 OF THE FILMS ARE MADE BY OMEN ARTISTS AND THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR OUR FILM FESTIVAL.

AND THEN WE HAVE A FOCUS ON MOST ROCK EVERYONE FILM AND THAT'S GIVING US AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPOTLIGHT MOROCCO IN THIS TIME OF THE EARTHQUAKE DEVASTATION IN MARRY YA CONCERN AND ALSO IN NORTH AFRICA, THE LIBYA EVERYONE FLOODING.

SO WE'RE GIVING PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THE MOST ROCK EVERYONE FILMS FOR FREE WHEN THEY GIVE TO RELIEF EFFORTS.

>> Cathy: GEORGE, HOW DID YOU CELEBRATE THE BIG NEWS?

>> HONESTLY, I GOT SOME SLEEP FOR ONCE.

[ Laughter ] YEAH, LOTS OF -- I MEAN, IT'S JUST SUCH A HUGE HONOR.

I FEEL, YOU KNOW, "MIZNA" TOOK ME IN, ONE OF MY EARLIEST PUBLICATIONS BACK IN 2018, AND I KIND OF GREW TO DEVELOP A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, DID SOME FREELANCE EDITING, AND THEN NOW STEPPED IN RECENTLY THIS PAST YEAR AS EXECUTIVE EDITOR AND I THINK THAT THE KIND OF SPIRIT OF BUILDING RELATIONS WITH ARTISTS, TAKING ARTISTS IN IS KIND OF SOMETHING I'M REALLY EXCITED TO BE ON THE GIVING END TOO NOW.

SUPPORTING ME SO MUCH.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: LANA, GEORGE, THANKS, CONGRATULATIONS, THANKS.

THERE'S NOT A LOT ON THE BALLOT THIS FALL, BUT ONE RACE HAS THE ATTENTION OF PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW POLITICS ACROSS THE STATE.

POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER HEADED NORTH FOR A FEISTY MAYORAL RACE.

>> I WILL INTRODUCE OUR TWO CANDIDATES.

THE INCUMBENT MAYOR IS EMILY LARSON.

THE CHALLENGER IS ROGER REINERT.

>> Mary: DULUTH VOTERS PACKED AN EVENT CENTER IN CANAL PARK, WHERE THE INCUMBENT MAYOR IS SEEKING AN UNPRECEDENTED THIRD TERM.

>> I AM SEEKING REELECTION BECAUSE THE PROGRESS OF THIS COMMUNITY, THE PROGRESS OF THE LAST SEVEN YEARS IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

AND WORTH CONTINUING.

>> Mary: LARSON LOST A PRIMARY TO A FORMER STATE SENATOR WHO SHOCKED THE SYSTEM WITH HIS VICTORY IN THE PRELIMINARY ELECTION IN AUGUST.

>> I'M RUNNING FOR MAYOR BECAUSE LIKE MANY OF YOU, I JUST THINK IT'S TIME FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

IT'S TIME THAT WE EXPECT MORE AND DO BETTER WITH OUR CORE CITY SERVICES LIKE STREETS, UTILITIES, PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> Mary: THE MAYOR POINTED OUT THAT REINERT SERVED IN THE LAST DFL FRY FECT YA THEY CAPITOL THAT DID NOT DELIVER MORE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AID BUT REINERT IS PROUD OF HIS SERVICE IN HE LEGISLATURE AND MILITARY.

>> I WAS AWARDED LEGISLATOR OF THE YEAR FOR WORKING ON THE L.G.A.

ISSUE, FOR BRINGING TOGETHER REGIONAL CENTERS AND THEIR MAYORS AT THE TIME TO REDO THE L.G.A.

FORMULA SO THAT IT WAS MORE SUSTAINABLE FOR ALL OF THANK YOUS GREATER MINNESOTA.

>> DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH ME AND I DON'T THINK IT SITS WELL WITH OUR PUBLIC EITHER.

WE HAVE A BUDGET THAT WE CAN RELY N, THAT IS EQUITABLE, THAT IS FAIR, THAT IS PAYING FOR CITY SERVICES.

MY COMMITMENT TO YOU AND MY VISION WITH THIS COMMUNITY HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME.

IT CONTINUES TO BE ENSURING THAT EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD ACROSS THE CITY, OFFERS A CHOICE IN OPPORTUNITY AND PROSPERITY.

>> Mary: DULUTH IS PROUD OF ITS PUBLIC SPACES AND OUTDOOR AMENITIES WHICH ARE N ISSUE IN THIS RACE.

>> WORK THAT WE ARE DOING IN PARKS IS MY WORK.

IT'S NOT WORK THAT SOMEBODY ELSE CAN CLAIM CREDIT FOR.

>> IF THE ONLY PERSON QUALIFIED TO SERVE IN THE OFFICE IS THE INCUMBENT, WE COULD JUST SKIP THE ELECTION AND SAVE THE TAXPAYERS MONEY AND TIME.

>> Mary: THE CONTEST IS GAINING STATEWIDE TTENTION, EVEN NOTED IN THE DEBATE.

>> WE HAVE HAVE MARY LAHAMMER AND HER CREW UP IN THE TWIN CITIES TO COVER THIS.

>> Mary: ANY PLACE THAT LEADS THE NATION IN VOTING, SO GENERALLY VOTERS HERE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.

VOTERS IN DULUTH ARE PRETTY FAMOUS FOR THOSE OF US WHO COVER STATEWIDE POLITICS.

THEY VOTE.

YOU VOTE.

YOU SHOW UP.

DULUTH VOTERS REALLY CARE.

WHAT RAWR HEARING AND WHY THIS RACE GETTING SO MUCH ATTENTION?

>> BECAUSE I THINK IT IS A VERY CLEAR CHOICE POINT.

AND I THINK FROM THE OUTSIDE WE MAY LOOK LIKE SIMILAR CANDIDATES.

WE'RE NOT.

AND WE'RE NOT THE OLD DULUTH THAT IS JUST WILLING TO ACCEPT A CANDIDATE.

WE PUSH EACH OTHER.

YOU KNOW, ULUTH POLITICS HAS A LITTLE BIT OF LIKE ERIN RANGE STREEGHT FIGHT IN THERE.

>> Mary: WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

>> THAT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING I'M MOST EXCITED ABOUT FROM THE PRIMARY.

IT'S OT THE FACT THAT WE GOT 63% OF THE VOTER.

IT'S THE FACT THAT WE DOUBLED VOTER TURNOUT.

THE CIVICS TEACHER INSIDE ME GETS EXCITED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WHEN YOU HAVE MEANINGFUL CHOICE, YOU HAVE GREAT CONVERSATIONS LIKE THE ONE WE HAD TODAY AND PEOPLE ENGAGE IN THE DEMOCRATIC VOTING PROCESS.

>> Mary: TWO DEMOCRATS, SO WHAT DIFFERENCES REALLY EMERGE BASED ON THIS?

>> OH, IDENTIFICATION SPECIFICITY.

I THINK CLARITY OF VISION.

I THINK A VERY CLEAR DISTINCTION OF STYLE IN HOW WE LEAD.

>> I THINK YOU SAW DEFINITELY SOME OVERLAP IN TERMS OF WHAT WE THINK ARE THE ISSUES.

AND MAYBE SOME OF THE APPROACHES.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS REALLY WHAT WE SAW AT THE END.

AND THAT IS WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY AT?

DOES THE COMMUNITY THINK THAT WE'RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?

ARE ARE THEY READY FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> Mary: STATEWIDE ATTENTION, THE GOVERNOR ENDORSED YOU.

DID DID HELP OR DIDN'T IT?

>> I THINK ENDORSEMENTS ARE ALWAYS REALLY USEFUL AND HELPFUL.

I AM GRATEFUL TO THE GOVERNOR AND I WOULD SAY, WE DIDN'T REALLY TALK UCH ABOUT ENDORSEMENTS HERE, BUT MANY OF THE PEOPLE ENDORSING ME KNOW BOTH OF US AND THEY MADE A CHOICE AS WELL.

>> Mary: THE ROOM WAS PACKED.

THE GOVERNOR WEIGHED IN AND ENDORSED THE INCUMBENT ON THIS.

>> AGAIN, I HINK WE'RE ONE OF THE KEY CITIES IN MINNESOTA, A STRONG REGIONAL CENTER.

WE HAVE A COMPETITIVE ELECTION FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME.

AND I HAVE TO ADMIT, I THINK PART OF IT IS THE FACT THAT I'VE DECIDED TO NOT DO POLITICAL PARTY ENDORSEMENTS TO HONOR THE NONPARTISAN NATURE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND YET WE CONTINUE TO DO WELL.

AND SO THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF A DAVID VERSUS GOLIATH SORT OF FEEL GOING ON.

♪♪ >> ERIC: ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE KNOWN FOR DISAGREEING ABOUT NEARLY EVERYTHING THESE DAYS.

GONE ARE THE DAYS OF WORKING TOGETHER ACROSS THE AISLE.

A NEW SURVEY OUT EARLIER THIS WEEK TAKES A DETAILED LOOK AT HOW THIS YEAR'S LEGISLATURE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE WORKED TOGETHER.

HERE WITH MORE, SHANNON WATSON HEADS UP "MAJORITY IN THE MIDDLE," A NON-PROFIT DESIGNED TO FOSTER CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE POLITICALLY.

WELCOME, SHANNON.

NOW, THE RESEARCH IS BASED ON BILL INTRODUCTIONS, LEGISLATIVE HEARINGS, AND BILL RESPONSORSHIPS WITH THE D.F.L.

TRIFECTA, WHAT'S THE BIPARTISAN SCORE CARD?

>> YOU KNOW, THE INTERESTING THING AS, WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO BE A TRIFECTA WHEN WE STARTED THIS PROJECT.

THAT JUST HAPPENED TO BE THE SITUATION.

BUT MINNESOTA'S A REALLY INTERESTING SPOT TO MEASURE BIPARTISANSHIP BECAUSE THIS IS ONLY THE THIRD YEAR IN THE LAST 30 THAT THE -- ANY ONE PARTY HAS CONTROLLED ALL THREE.

SO THAT JUST SORT OF HAPPENED TO BE THERE.

BUT WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS LOOK AT -- WE HAVE THIS RED-BLUE NARRATIVE AND THIS IS RED VERSUS BLUE AND THIS IDEA THAT THEY'RE ALWAYS SORT OF FIGHTING.

AND THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY WHAT THE CASE IS.

IF YOU LOOK AT TOTAL AUTHORSHIP OF BILLS.

IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE CHIEF AUTHOR AND SAY, OH THIS IS A CHIEF AUTHOR IS A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

AND THAT CAN, YOU KNOW, SORT OF DESCRIBE THE BILL.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL AUTHORSHIP, BECAUSE IN THE SENATE, THEY CAN HAVE UP TO FIVE AUTHORS AND IN THE OUSE, THEY CAN HAVE UP TO 35 AUTHORS.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL GROUP TOGETHER THAT IS WORKING ON A BILL AND THAT HAS DECIDED TO PUT THEIR NAME ON -- YOU SEE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PICTURE AND A LOT MORE PURPLE.

>> Cathy: INTERESTING.

SOUNDS LIKE THE BIPARTISAN WORK THEN IS DONE BEHIND THE SCENES BECAUSE WHEN YOU WATCH FLOOR DEBATES, IT'S CLEARLY NOT THE CASE.

>> ABSOLUTELY, FLOOR DEBATES AND COMMITTEE HEARINGS ARE OFTEN THE THEATER.

AND THAT'S WHERE THEY GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET THE TALKING POINTS OUT.

AND TO SORT OF OBJECT THE RECORD FOR THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO NEED FOR THE NEXT CAMPAIGN.

THIS ORK, ES, EXACTLY, IT'S BEHIND THE SCENES.

IT'S DONE IN OFFICES AND HALLWAYS AND SOMETIMES ON THE FLOOR.

>> Eric: BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO LEGISLATORS PRIVATELY, THEY SAY I WOULDN'T MIND WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE MORE BUT MY ACTIVISTS DON'T WANT COMPROMISE.

BOTH SIDES.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THAT'S SOME OF THE REASON THAT WE SORT OF HESITATED TO PUT OUT SOME OF THIS INFORMATION, BECAUSE IN SOME DISTRICTS, BEING BIPARTISAN IS SORT OF AN ELECTORAL, LIKE, YOU GET PUNISHED FOR IT RATHER THAN GETTING REWARDED FOR IT.

BUT WE THINK ONE OF THOSE REASONS IS, IT'S THE SIGNIFICANT PARTY PEOPLE WHO ARE SHOWING UP TO THOSE ENDORSEMENT CONVENTIONS AND THE MAJORITY IN OUR MIDDLE NAME IS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPTED OUT.

AND IT'S MOSTLY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE MIDDLE OR THEY HAVE DECIDED THAT POLITICS IS TOO UGLY AND ALL THEY DO IS FIGHT, AND THAT'S TERRIBLE, AND I DON'T WANT ANY PART OF THAT.

SO PART OF THIS STUDY IS TO START TELLING THAT STORY OF THE COOPERATION THAT'S GOING ON, SO THAT WE CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY NOT SEE IT ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE PAPER EVERY WEEK, BUT THERE IS SOME OF THIS WORK HANG.

AND IT'S WORTH SUPPORTING AND IT'S WORTH, YOU KNOW, GIVING CREDIT TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING IT.

>> Cathy: ARE YOU ENCOURAGED OR A LITTLE DISCOURAGED BY THE FINDINGS?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK I'M ENCOURAGED.

YEAH, THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR WE'VE DONE IT.

I'LL SAY, THIS YEAR, WITH THE HISTORIC NUMBER OF BILL INTRODUCTIONS WAS A -- IT WAS AN INTERESTING YEAR TO START THIS PROJECT.

BECAUSE WE HAD TO HAND-TRACK EVERY BILL THAT GOT A HEARING.

BECAUSE WE WERE LOOKING AT THE BILL AUTHORSHIP AT TIME OF HEARING, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THOSE THINGS CHANGE.

BUT WE WANT TO SEE, AT THAT SNAPSHOT IN TIME, WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE?

AND I DIDN'T EXPECT FOR AS MUCH URPLE TO SHOW UP ON THE GRAPHS AS IT DID.

SO WE'LL SEE.

WE VERY SPECIFICALLY DIDN'T TELL LEGISLATORS WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS.

BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO INFLUENCE THE BEHAVIOR.

FROM NOW ON OUT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE INFLUENCE THE BEHAVIOR.

TO YOUR POINT, SOMETIMES IT MAY NOT BE MORE BIPARTISANSHIP.

IT MAY BE LESS.

>> Eric: AND WEBSITE?

>> MAJORITYMIDDLE.COM SLAS STATE OF BIPARTISAN.

>> Cathy: AND YOU ARE A NON-PROFIT.

>> YES, WE RE, SO IF PEOPLE LIKE THIS WORK, PLEASE SUPPORT IT.

>> Cathy: WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP DOING THE WORK?

>> I THINK BECAUSE THE MORE PEOPLE WHO OPT OUT, THE WORSE THE PROBLEM GETS.

AND THE MORE PEOPLE WHO DISTRUST GOVERNMENT, WHO DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE PROCESS IS FOR THEM, THAT THEY'RE NOT BEING HEARD, THAT THERE'S NOT A PLACE FOR THEM TO PARTICIPATE, HAT'S NOT GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY.

>> Cathy: WE'RE GOING TO LIVELEAVE IT THERE BECAUSE IT'S A GOOD WAY TO LEAVE IT.

♪♪ >> CATHY: A LAWSUIT FILED IN MINNESOTA EARLIER THIS WEEK TO KEEP DONALD TRUMP OFF THE 2024 BALLOT, INCREASING TALK OF BIDEN IMPEACHMENT, A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN LOOMING, AND NEARLY 1/10TH OF THE NATION'S UNIONIZED AUTO WORKERS WENT ON STRIKE AT MIDNIGHT AT DETROIT'S BIG THREE AUTO MAKERS.

LOT OF NATIONAL POLITICS TO TALK ABOUT WITH OUR GROUP OF WILY PROFESSORS.

LARRY JACOBS HEADS UP THE CENTER FOR POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE AT THE U OF M'S HUMPHREY SCHOOL.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA IS ALSO THE TEACHING HOME OF MICHAEL MINTA.

AND JOINING US FROM DULUTH, CINDY RUGELEY HEADS UP THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT U.M.D.

PROFESSOR MINTA, I KNOW THAT YOU TAUGHT AT ANN ARBOR.

>> NO, WELL, I WENT TO SCHOOL THERE.

>> Cathy: SO YOU'RE KIND OF -- YOU'RE NO STRANGER TO MICHIGAN AND THE AUTO INDUSTRY, RIGHT?

SO THE UAW STRIKE, IS THERE ANY POLITICAL FALLOUT FROM THIS AT ALL?

POTENTIALLY?

>> WELL, IT COULD BE IF IT DOESN'T GET RESOLVED QUICKLY.

BECAUSE UNIONS, IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS THE SUMMER OF STRIKES EVERYWHERE, RIGHT?

IT'S HAPPENING IN CALIFORNIA.

IT'S HAPPENING WITH THE AUTO WORKERS.

AND SO IT'S REALLY THIS IDEA THAT THE ECONOMY IS DOING WELL AND BIDEN IS KIND OF PUTTING -- HE'S HANGING HIS HAT ON THAT, LIKE THE ECONOMY IS DOING WELL, BUT YOU HAVE ALL THESE WORKERS IN THESE DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES STRIKING AND UNIONS IS A ARE A BIG SUPPORTER OF THE -- A BIG PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC COALITION.

SO I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE SILENTLY HOPING THAT THE UNIONS CAN SOLVE THIS AND THE CORPORATIONS CAN OLVE THIS SO THEY CAN GET THAT COALITION TOGETHER FOR 2024.

THE LONGER THIS DRAGS ON, IT'S REALLY GOING TO AFFECT THAT COALITION AND THAT ABILITY TO GET OUT THE VOTE.

>> Cathy: WHEN I ASKED ABOUT POLITICAL FALLOUT, YOU WERE NODDING YOUR HEAD.

>> YEAH, IDENTIFICATION THE BIG ISSUE FOR JOE BIDEN IS, THE ECONOMY IS IMPROVED, THERE'S GROWTH.

REAL WAGES ARE UP, EMPLOYMENT IS UP.

AND JOE BIDEN'S GETTING NO CREDIT FOR THAT.

AND THE QUESTION IS WHY?

AND CLEARLY INFLATION IS PART OF IT.

AND THE HOPE OF THE BIDEN PEOPLE IS, WITH INFLATION COMING DOWN, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BEGIN TO FEEL BETTER ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE.

BUT IF THE STRIKE GOES ON, IT WILL TAKE, YOU KNOW, STEAM OUT OF THE ECONOMY.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE A REAL PROBLEM FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND JUROR JOE BIDEN IF IT LASTS.

>> Eric: RONALD REAGAN DID SO WELL.

MCCOMB COUNTY, WITH THE DEMOCRATS, THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF AUTO WORKERS.

THAT'S A GROUP MAYBE LEADERSHIP FOR BIDEN, BUT THE RANK AND FILE IS UP FOR GRABS, I SUPPOSE, A LITTLE BIT ANYWAY.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IF THIS ISN'T RESOLVED AND YOU'RE HAVING PEOPLE STILL STRIKING AND DISSATISFIED WITH THESE COMPANIES AND THE UNION NOT RESOLVING IT, I AM, IF THEY'RE STRIKING, THEY'RE NOT OUT KNOCKING ON DOORS, THEY'RE NOT HELPING THE DEMOCRATS.

AND SO THAT'S THE TYPE OF FALLOUT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IF THIS SN'T RESOLVED QUICKLY.

>> Cathy: PROFESSOR UGELEY LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS LAWSUIT THAT WAS FILED IN MINNESOTA EARLIER THIS WEEK, INCLUDING FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE, JOAN GROWE TO KEEP FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP OFF THE ALLOT UNDER THE 14TH AMENDMENT.

INCLUDE EXPLAIN THAT?

>> YEAH, I AM IT'S ARTICLE III, OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT AND IT DEALS WITH -- IT WAS PUT IN THERE AFTER THE THE CIVIL WAR.

AND IT PRETTY MUCH SAYS THAT IF YOU PARTICIPATED IN AN INSURRECTION, YOU CAN'T RUN FOR OFFICE.

YOU CAN'T HOLD THE PRESIDENCY.

ND AGAIN THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS PUT IN AFTER THE CIVIL WAR TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE WANTING TO SEEK OFFICE WHO HAD SERVED IN THE SOUTH.

AND SO I THINK IT'S INTERESTING.

IT'S HERE.

I KNOW IT'S -- I BELIEVE NEW HAMPSHIRE, I COULD BE WRONG, AND COLORADO, ARE ALL LOOKING AT THIS.

AND SO IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING ON A COUPLE FRONTS.

ONE, WHAT EXACTLY IS AN INSURRECTION?

AND, TWO, WHAT COUNTS AS SOMEBODY PARTICIPATING IN IT?

AND SO, AGAIN, IT GOES INTO THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS CENTURY OLD PROVISION, AND SO IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

IT'S GOING TO END UP AT HE SUPREME COURT.

>> Cathy: DOES THIS THING HAVE HEGS?

LEGS?

>> IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO HAVE LEGS BECAUSE IT'S GOT SO MUCH ATTENTION TO IT.

BUT THIS IS UNCLEAR WHO'S GOING TO DECIDE THIS.

I MEAN, THERE'S ANOTHER, LIKE, A LAW IN PLACE OR DO E ASSUME THIS IS SELF-EXECUTING?

THAT'S, IT'S THERE, YOU KIND OF MAKE A REFERENCE TO, YOU KNOW, THE TITLE III, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

AND THAT MAKES IT, YOU KNOW, EFFECTIVE.

I THINK THE KEY THING HERE IS, IT GOES TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT EVENTUALLY.

MONTHS GO BY, PERHAPS.

AND THIS IS A COURT WITH SIX CONSERVATIVES ON IT.

AND IT'S JUST REALLY HARD TO IMAGINE A SITUATION WHERE THOSE SIX CONSERVATIVES ARE GOING TO TOSS DONALD TRUMP OFF THE BALLOT.

>> Cathy: DO YOU HAVE HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THIS?

I'M GOING TO MAKE A SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL, PROBABLY NOT THAT CONTROVERSIAL, REALLY, BUT I THINK THAT REPUBLICANS WOULD LOVE FOR THIS TO PPLY, SO TRUMP COULD BE REMOVED FROM THE BALLOT, DEMOCRATS SECRETLY ARE HOPING THAT HE SAYS OCTOBER SO I -- I DON'T KNOW, LIKE LARRY SAID, THERE'S SO MUCH.

THE WAR AMENDMENT -- THIS CLAUSE, THE 14TH AMENDMENT WAS PASSED DURING THE WAR.

IT'S ONE OF THESE, THE WAR AMENDMENTS, THAT REALLY WAS TALKING ABOUT CONFEDERATES THAT WERE REINING WINNING OFFICE IN CONGRESS WHO WERE REELECTED AND TRYING TO SERVE, AND THE REPUBLICANS AT THE TIME, TRYING TO DEMOCRATS WHO WERE AFFILIATED WITH THE CONFEDERATE PARTY OUT OF CONGRESS.

SO NOW, YOU KNOW, REALLY TRYING TO TRANSPOSE THIS TO THE 21ST CENTURY, LIKE LARRY SAID, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS IN TERMS OF, IS IT SELF-EXECUTING?

IS THE PRESIDENT EVEN INVOLVED?

SO IT'S UNCLEAR IF THIS CLAUSE REALLY -- AND I THINK BY THE TIME THE COURTS SETTLE IT, IF IT GETS TO THE COURTS, TERCHES BE TOOIT'LLBE TOO ATE.

SO I THINK IT'S REALLY UP TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO DECIDE THE FINAL FATE OF DONALD TRUMP AND NOT SECRETARY OF STATES OF THESE BATTLE GROWNTD STATES.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR RUGELEY, WHAT ABOUT GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN SEPTEMBER 30TH OR LATER?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE ARE TAKING T MORE SERIOUSLY THAN THEY HAVE IN RECENT YEARS WHEN THE SAME -- OUR ANNUAL THREAT OF THE GOVERNMENT SHUTTING DOWN.

I THINK THAT MCCARTHY'S GOING TO NEED THE DEMOCRATS.

THAT WHAT I THINK'S COMING ABOUT.

I THINK THIS TIME IT COULD QUITE WELL HAPPEN.

BUT IT'S INTERESTING POLITICALLY TO ME BECAUSE IT'S NOT A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE SAYING THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT OR THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT WANTING TO DO WHAT THE OPPOSITE PARTY IN CONGRESS.

THIS TIME IT'S AN INTERNAL FIGHT BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

I MEAN, MCCARTHY, YOU KNOW, HE SEEMS TO BE HAVING A REAL STRUGGLE WITH KEEPING HIS PARTY ON IT.

IF THEY STICK WITH THE EAL THAT KEPT THE NATION FROM DEFAULTING, THEN PERHAPS THEY'LL GET THE DEMOCRATS ON BOARD.

BUT I THINK THIS ONE IS PARTICULARLY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S NOT SO MUCH DEMOCRATS VERSUS REPUBLICANS AS IT IS RIGHT NOW REPUBLICANS VERSUS REPUBLICANS.

>> Eric: PROCESS UNDER WAY TO IMPEACH PRESIDENT BIDEN.

>> YEAH, WELL, THIS IS TIED UP WITH THE SHUTDOWN POSSIBILITY, WHICH IS MCCARTHY IS TRYING TO GIVE SOME KIND OF SOP TO THE HARD RIGHT IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THIS IS THE SOP.

BUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU START AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY, IT TAKES ON A LIFE OF ITS OWN.

IT'S NOT LIKE, OH, WE WENT OUT THERE, DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING, THEREFORE WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO TO IT.

REPUBLICANS MAY NOT WANT THIS.

IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO E EVIDENCE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS INVOLVED IN HIS SON'S, YOU KNOW, WRONGDOING.

AND SO THEY'RE GOING TO SQUANDER A LOT OF TIME AND -- ON REALLY A WILD GOOSE CHASE.

>> Cathy: HOW MUCH OF A WOUNDED SPEAKER IS SPEAKER MCCARTHY?

DIDN'T HE PULL BACK ON WHAT IS USUALLY HISTORICALLY BIPARTISAN MILITARY AID BILL?

>> YEAH, I DON'T -- I MEAN, HE'S -- HE MADE A LOT OF COMPROMISES TO GET THE SPEAKERSHIP, RIGHT?

AND NOW THE CONSERVATIVES ARE CALLING IN THEIR CHIPS.

HE TRIED TO OUTFLANK THEM BY SAYING, OKAY, I'M GOING TO CALL UNILATERALLY FOR THIS IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.

BUT IT STILL HASN'T STOPPED THE CONSERVATIVES FROM SAYING HE'S WEAK AND EVEN THREATENING TO REMOVE HIM FROM THE SPEAKERSHIP.

BUT, YOU KNOW, SPEAKER MCCARTHY HAS THE SAME ISSUES THAT ALL LEADERS DO.

THERE ARE ABOUT 25 TO 30 CONGRESSIONAL HOUSE SEATS THAT THE MAJORITY PARTY HAS TO HOLD ONTO IN A VERY -- I MEAN, VERY, VERY COMPETITIVE.

AND SO THIS IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY COULD FORCE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE IN THESE SUPER COMPETITIVE STATES TO TAKE A VOTE THAT MAY CAUSE THE REPUBLICANS TO LOSE THEIR MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE.

AND SPEAKER MECHANIC CARTY DOESN'T WANT THAT.

>> Eric: ARE AGE OR TERM LIMITS COMING TO CONGRESS, PROFESSOR RUGELEY?

>> OH, I THINK THEY ALWAYS BRING IT UP.

BUT I DON'T -- I MEAN, IDENTIFICATION THE SUPREME COURT, I MEAN, IT'S GOT A LOT OF STUDENT CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES THAT ARE INVOLVED WITH THAT TOO.

SO WILL IT COME UP?

IT MIGHT COME UP AGAIN IN THE HOUSE LIKE AS LARRY SAID AS SOP.

>> AARP.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

[ Laughter ] >> I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN EITHER.

IT'S A GOOD TALKING POINT.

WE'VE HAD NOT BEN HEARING THIS FOR DECADES AND DECADES.

>> Eric: OKAY, GOT TO RUN.

HEARD THE BELL.

THANKS, PROFSZS.

>> ERIC: WE'VE RUN LONG TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK WITH THE INDEX FILE SECTION NEXT WEEK.

WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME LEFT FOR SOME SHOW-ENDING MUSIC.

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