Lakeland Currents, your public affairs program for north central Minnesota.

Production funding for Lakeland Currents is made possible by Bemidji Regional Airport, serving the region with daily flights to Minneapolis-St Paul International Airport.

More information available at bemidjiairport.org.

Closed captioning for Lakeland Currents is sponsored by Nisswa Tax Service.

Tax preparation for businesses and individuals online at nisswatax.com.

Hello again friends, I'm Jason Eden's your host of Lakeland Currents.

Thanks for joining the conversation again and thanks for your ongoing support of Lakeland Public Tv.

Even though most of us are fortunate to live here and part of the world where we have access to clean water many of us still take safe drinking water for granted.

However it is no accident that we have access to clean water, behind the scenes hundreds of people throughout our region ensure and work tirelessly to ensure that you have safe drinking water and also to ensure the health and well-being of those folks who live downstream.

Here to help us understand how municipalities keep our water clean is Charlie Gammon from Brainerd Public Utilities and an unsung environmental hero.

Charlie welcome to the program and thanks for making time for our conversation today.

Charlie: Thanks for having me Jason.

Absolutely.

Jason: Well first of all let's just zoom way out and I'd like to get kind of a big picture understanding of how municipalities keep our water clean, both on the intake side of course and then after we've used our water.

So what can you tell us from a big picture.

Charlie: Well a lot goes into that, It's really starting from the 1970s when we kind of enacted a clean water drinking act.

And that and the regulations began to come down and we had some standard operating procedures kind of throughout the region at that point or something to work off of.

So that came down from EPA.

So when we look at the federal level and we look at a state level, we look at the the the framework in which that is established.

So that gives us some goals to achieve and it and also gives us some standardization.

So when we when we look at the big picture and the the big scope how does that work?

Where do we get our water from and how how do we protect it?

So it's a step system, so each box needs to be a check, so each community might be a little bit different and then rural settings.

So how we look at it is where is the water going to be coming from in that region?

So if it's a well a surface intake and then what's constituents are in that water.

Whether it be a a river intake like the Mississippi surface water which is a totally different type of operation and treatment facility to a well system.

We have wells here in Brainerd Public Utilities that we manage and operate.

So we'll pull it out of the ground so it's ground water and from an aquifer and and look at what's in there involved.

So you might have iron maybe.

There is certain constituents some people are lucky in some regions to get really good water and be able to put right from the well to the distribution system.

Here we find iron and manganese.

Iron and manganese can be it's a secondary or It's not health but it's one of those taste order and smell categories.

So we put it through a sand filter and so on.

How do we protect it?

Throughout the years we've established what they call wellhead protection or zones that we look at.

And we don't want to we kind of manage a little bit different so we watch them areas pretty close.

So to take it from the ground and treat it and put it in the distribution system for people, we then also know where that recharge zone for them wells are.

So we can watch that area pretty close and monitor and plan around things that may not be very good for the soil or that we want to watch for storm water runoff whether or infiltration and that type of thing.

Does that answer your question?

Jason: Yeah, absolutely and of course it triggers a bunch of other questions.

So let me make sure I understand this if I live in Brainerd, I'm hearing you say that my water is coming from a well as opposed to surface intake?

Is that correct?

So, it's not coming from the Mississippi it is coming from a well here?

Charlie: No it's coming from the well source.

So it's a grown water source.

So yeah that's a whole different animal.

When we're looking at communities and we're looking at different operations this one's a grown water source or a well production.

Jason: So then you also have to as you said protect that wellhead area, so you're also looking at and monitoring and concerned about stormwater runoff as well?

Is that correct?

Charlie: Oh absolutely.

Absolutely, we try to watch everything so we can you know with the extensive people that we have in in a municipality.

You have a you know building zoning and all that playing to part with this, so we'll be in discussions if there's something that might be impacting or could impact or you know we're real careful with that area of that zone.

Sometimes that reach you know goes outside the city limits too.

And so when we're dealing with agencies let's say, we might pull in the agricultural agency and look at that the egg.

I guess so it's a team effort throughout the agencies also.

So when we're looking at that impact zones or the critical areas, we'll be watching which way the the agencies have many different departments.

So we might be looking or discussing with the geological formations and looking at that area.

So where is that recharge zone for that aquifer and where is it coming from.

So it may be high you know very far reaching and it can be pretty small depending on how much water you have in that area.

Jason: Interesting, so you just shared that Brainerd gets most of its water from well water are there a lot of municipalities that have this surface intake that you mentioned?

Charlie: So one that's in concern that I'm concerned about being that you know once we produce it and use it and it comes back and then we have to treat it again to put it back in the Mississippi river, not only am I concerned but my closest intake downstream is St.

Cloud.

So St.

Cloud Minnesota also they have a surface intake so if I can do a you know really good job here then I'm not worried about there there's a lot of discharges between here and there.

But I need to do my part too, not only environmentally by their discharge permit and by their drinking water.

So I'm concerned with my surroundings, so where I discharge and where we have common interests.

Jason: That's a huge responsibility to put water back into the watershed and know that a community is going to be drawing the very same water for its drinking water.

So tell us a little bit about how that process works?

How do you clean the water to such an extent that i as a resident of a downstream community can drink it with confidence?

Charlie: So as we produce it and go through treatment and put in the distribution and we and then we go to services and industries and then we collect it within our collection system.

Brainerd currently has 17 individual lift stations that we have to maintain and operate, which are very important to get conveyance of the wastewater here.

Also Brainderd Public Utilities maybe some people don't know we also treat all the wastewater from Baxter's residents.

So they handle their list stations and collection but we get their influence, so an influence I'm sorry is just what they use and produce and then get wasted here.

So once that happens throughout that network and there's a world below surface so what we call infrastructure or asset management.

So when we look at the big picture and I'm going to fly way back out again, Jason: Please.

Charlie There's a whole other world of utilities that go into what we do.

So when we look at fire, when we look at public safety, when we look at emergencies, resiliency emergencies, we have to be on guard seven days a week, 365 days a year 24 hours a day.

And so to bring that service to people that they can be confident drink the water.

When we receive it here we have a process which is better known as a SBR (sequential batch reactor).

So it goes through a pre-screening, it goes through biologically treating.

So in other words micro organisms are my friend.

Viruses, bacteria's all that.

And I utilize their ability biologically.

So we mimic wetlands, we mimic a lot of the technology that goes into treating wastewater and water is a mimic of the environment.

Biomimicry.

When we look at biomass or we look at a volume of an organism and we put unclean water waste water into it.

We want that biology and microorganisms to clean it for us.

So that's what I manage is a live living treatment plan and same goes with water and distribution and everything else when we start looking at that that's one thing we want to avoid.

So it's kind of a flip of the coin when we look at where we're doing and what.

So it's hard to explain, it's very difficult to manage.

I guess the best way to try to explain is an immense amount of technical and knowledge that goes into what we do.

So when you say wastewater, you know at the early beginnings of meager beginnings if you had drinking water you'd take the pan and throw it out on the street right?

I mean right?

You realize as a nation very early on whether it be air, soil or water that we have to be careful because diseases come from this right?

So when we look at our treatment facilities and I can't I don't want to get too technical, but utilizing microbiology and utilizing them free swimmers rotifers and all the other organisms that I utilize.

I must balance that, so they take so much air they have so much use and then they go away or I waste them out we call it.

I manage that biology.

So without having feet on the ground and actually looking at processes with you.

Very difficult to explain.

Jason: Sure.

Yeah I can totally appreciate that.

Let me back up and let's talk about the intake process.

So as you're pulling water on the intake side for the residents, so you mentioned iron and manganese earlier but what other compounds are you testing for on a regular basis?

And are there any risks to the public if if those tests aren't done at a certain rate?

Charlie: Absolutely.

Absolutely, So I'm going to break it down as easy as I can so we have a regulated and secondary.

Iron manganese onto that secondary portion of it, so let's taste it.

It's regulated it's a secondary standard we kind of want to meet because otherwise we're going to put a product out that might be not us of quality.

Jason: Okay that makes sense.

Charlie: For the regulated one like say arsenic, mercury, lead, selenium there's a whole bunch of them characterized that we test for to make sure that we're okay.

Which they refer to as MCL's or (maximum contaminant levels).

So we're keeping an eye on that part of it.

Minnesota Department Health Missile Protection Control agency.

Minnesota Pollution Control Agency they're two different agencies.

One's for kind of a drinking clean drinking water act and one's for a discharge permit or environmental discharge.

They work together a lot agencies work within each other so, like you'll bring in DNR department of natural resources in Minnesota, you'll bring in a lot of professionals in these agencies very good at what they do.

They're very much you know my go-to agencies for answers.

So when we break it down, Minnesota Department of Health kind of set up a way where they come in or they send the samples and they take care of all the sampling and labs where that samples go.

The other part of it is in distribution, which you have to do lead and copper sampling for the residents, you have to look at coliform sampling for the drinking water.

The coliform sampling which we do here is very important.

A coliform is an indicator we'll either have present or absence.

So we have sites throughout the city, we're required 15 sample a month.

Of that distribution system with that distribution sampling protocol that we have we have to have an absent, right?

So if we have a present doesn't necessarily mean there's anything bad in water.

That means there's an indicator bacteria it could be an iron bacteria that wouldn't be harmful.

Then there's another test that's there, in other words we test for coliform it's absent no big deal.

But then we can throw a black light on it which is an Ecoliform which is an indicator that neither came from soil, human or animal.

And it could could possibly contain fecal matter.

So let's talk about that for a minute.

Let's look at how soil would come into it.

Well as building codes go, materials construction materials evolve and testing abilities improve we are able to then finite that sampling.

So is a present coliform bad?

Well that triggers us into action.

okay?

So if we get one that may be a present, we then go sample that area, that region.

So try to figure out what the problem is.

So it's an indicator but not an e coli, so then we're looking at where did this come from and why are we having it.

Our best defense is the flush so it's not a it's just a bacteria.

Jason: This is all on the distribution side right?

I'm sorry I don't mean to interrupt but these tests that you're referring to right now this is all post intake?

Charlie: This is all post intake on the water side before we receive it, then we go out and we deal with Minnesota Department of Health district engineers.

We try to identify where the issue came from.

We have to resample and and go back to normal operations so, it's very important and very gruesome when it comes to a rigorous I should say when it comes to how that hours work.

Jason: So on the intake side, you mentioned these four elements that you test for regularly and you test for I believe you said maximum contaminant load?

Is that correct is that what I heard you say?

Charlie: Levels, maximum levels.

Jason: I'm sorry.

Okay, so you mentioned arsenic lead?

How often do you test?

Charlie: That's determined by the state of Minnesota.

So they will look at it and typically it's a two-year cycle but that might be quarterly if we're getting close to a maximum contaminant level.

They'll increase that sampling frequency.

Charlie: Right now, we're looking great we don't have any influence and and we're not seeing a whole lot of movement on that aquifer.

So it's being protected pretty well, if it starts to climb up... Let's say nitrates you know so nitrates we can go in that a little bit but one of the one of the issues with nitrates and it's just what happens at mcl is 10.

But it it's really terrible what they call blue babies in other words if we have too much of that and infants are very subject to this.

They will start to it replaces that air oxygen molecule attached to it so it'll take up that air so that's why they call them blue babies.

Jason: Nitrates where does that come from?

Charlie: It can come from sources say runoff, it can come from degradation, it can come from fertilizing.

If it gets into the ground water so that's well head protection system that we have in place.

So if there's over application you know a flood zone potential.

You know breaks from pollution and or fertilizers that's where it can be.

It naturally occurs just because of the biomass of the earth but it doesn't help that we can emphasize or multiply that either.

Jason: Right.

Well Charlie you're a wealth of knowledge and i want to make sure I ask you a couple other questions.

One of which is are there lead pipes in the municipal distribution system?

Is that still a practice or are there still remnants of lead pipes in the distribution system and if so, is that cause for concern?

Charlie: So when we look at at our infrastructure our assets, that's one of the things that they've been doing a great job over time.

Remember this is a very old community.

I mean this is not new by any means so we can outdate a lot of cities out there just because there was a lot of progress here back in the day.

Now standard materials are building materials again as we get older we learn right or we get experience and as time passes.

So more testing right?

So that was part of the materials way back when.

They learned real quick that okay we're gonna go to copper or we're gonna go to some other building material.

So over the years looking at the water mains collection system and infrastructure, they've been identifying replacing and updating with current materials throughout time.

We've got to remember that plumbing it may not be 100 lead but let's say the brass that they've used for the plumbing code for x amount of years work great.

Well there's lead in the seats and there it's a concoction of lead, zinc and brass to give that malleable metal.

We can get a seat.

So shut valves off.

If we look at the building materials in the plumbing codes over time things are changing as we come aware of certain things.

So is there still lead service pipes not to my knowledge.

Although do you know absolutely everything that's in the ground.

I can't go look at it and is there certain things I would think not potentially.

But nothing I'm aware of that I'm saying it's 100 lead pipe.

There are some communities you know that have programs, so this extensive testing of lead and copper and trying to figure out where things are at.

And looking at your assets or your infrastructure.

And looking at what's going on out there and targeting things that need to be changed.

That's part of what we do too.

Jason: So on the wastewater side, who is it that's...

So you said the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency issues your discharge permit?

How often do they test the quality of that water directly would you feel comfortable drinking that water?

Charlie: So we're adding... so and I wish I had a demonstration for you because I should have grabbed them.

Back in the day right you could see it this clear was opaque it looked good to drink, smell fine, drink it right?

Well with our discharge going to the river sometimes tough to tell.

We're at that precipice right now in technology that there are some states that are don't have our luxury of having this much water, or availability to water.

That are recharging the aquifers with their discharge and pumping on the other end.

So how far away are we and what would it take if we had a closed-loop system?

And how do we get that past the public to say that's going to be okay?

Jason: Yeah.

Brainerd Public Utilities is a municipally owned utility and I'm curious are there any opportunities for citizens to get involved in any way shape or form to support your work?

Or to somehow do outreach what opportunities are there for local citizens to get involved?

Charlie: Jason, likely said I've spoken with you before and and the problem that I kind of came in to was the Covid situation.

We are right now because I'm going to be doing a lot of outreach for participation and concerned citizens.

So one of the one of the biggest problems that that I've ran through with all my years in these facilities, is that the education of the elected officials.

When we start talking residents and elected officials and or whatever that layer is to bring in a new person that may not know anything that we do.

Because they got another profession that they're involved in.

To educate them how this works.

So if I can start doing some outreach and working with CLC or any of the internships that go on.

And I put on tours obviously with Covid it's been a little bit restricted but you know try to educate the public and reach out to them.

So they understand it's definitely not magic and it's very expensive what we do.

And if we can work together on this and we can help each other.

If we look at like pre-treatment agreements, so industries that goes along with this too.

So any industry that's in town we'll look at them and see if there is a potential to hurt the plant and maybe give us stuff we can't treat.

That there's alternative routes for that, along with just the treatment that we're just receiving.

We also look at our industry and we work well with them.

All the industries in town like I just met with Burlington Northern Santa Fe yesterday at their yard there in Brainerd.

Impressive place doing a really good job.

Can we do better?

Potentially and working together we may get there and so right now it's all good.

Jason: There's a superfund site at the border of Brainerd and Baxter and where evidently railroad equipment was treated for many years, is that a risk to the to the water at all to the municipal drinking water?

Charlie: So the history on that is when that went decommissioned and they come in to decommission and the agencies will come in and test.

They realize there was an issue, so they did a bunch of entombment and pumping and stuff like that.

Which I think is the sixth renewal.

So you have agencies MPCA, EPA, you have contracted companies managing that.

We're up for renewal so we're looking at everything over there and making sure that we're either containing it, treating it, or or getting somewhere with it.

I think it's the sixth renewal or investigation.

So we'll be working on that.

I think that comes due in 22.

Jason: So final question in just about 15 to 20 seconds.

If you will I'm curious what motivates you to do this work Charlie?

Why did you gravitate towards this profession at a very young age?

Charlie: I realized I love fishing, hunting and you know back then it's not as good as it was.

What it is now the Mississippi River was near and dear to me.

I've worked every one of my jobs and career has been with the Mississippi River.

It's important to me you know.

When the industry would just dump and just go right out into the receiving waters and that was standard practice.

That's just what it was so evolution of the drinking water, the evolution of of the resources.

We can find a really good line between industry production, human population.

We have the technology to do this we just gotta be able to move forward with it.

Jason: We're about out of time and I just wanted to thank you for the work that you do on behalf of our neighbors and our environment.

And also want to thank you for making time for our conversation today.

I really appreciate it.

Charlie: Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you.

Jason: Thank you.

Yeah absolutely, anytime and thank all of you for joining us.

Once again I'm Jason Eden's your host of Lakeland Currents.

Be kind and be well.

We'll see you next week.