[piano intro] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to Side by Side.

My guest today is a nationally recognized speaker and storytelling expert as well.

With humor and heart, she helps people craft their message and connect more deeply.

Today we'll sit down with Kelly Swanson, a master communicator and motivator.

- Funding for Side by Side with Nido Qubein is made possible by... - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors locally from 13 facilities and 4,500 hardworking teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- Truist, we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist, leaders in banking, unwavering in care.

[upbeat music] - Kelly, welcome to Side by Side.

Everywhere I go, people are talking about you.

You have done a spectacular job building your name and reputation as a professional speaker, as a humorist, as a coach of people who want to speak and communicate.

How did you get into this?

- By accident.

[laughs] - How?

What was the accident?

- By accident.

It was never part of the plan.

I'm still kind of shocked at where I am.

Like, how did I get here?

Why am I doing this?

Why me?

Well, it goes all the way back to childhood, and I won't tell you the full story, but I was a picked on kid, a bullied kid, and I retreated in books and stories.

And you may not know this, but I created a whole imaginary town.

And I talked to people you couldn't see, and I was this kid that lived inside the magical world of stories.

Fast forward, all those stories tumbled out onto paper.

It became a hobby.

It became a craft.

I took a random class after college, a bunch of teachers.

We had to read our stories.

And they said, "Wow, your story's good, but the way you tell it, how do you know how to do that?"

I was like, "I don't know.

They're my stories.

They're my people.

I don't know."

And they said, "Would you come to our school?

Tell it to the kids.

Next thing you know, I'm telling it to..." Didn't like that very much.

- Yes.

The teachers were the ones that stopped what they were doing and were laughing in all the right places and getting their hearts tugged.

And next thing you know, I'm a storyteller.

And then people started telling me about Garrison Keillor and the National Storytelling Festival.

And I went to that and said, "Oh, that's what I want to be, a storyteller," which is a hard sell.

But that's kind of how it all began.

- And then what was your first... But now you speak on stages.

I'll get to the one I want to show in a moment.

You did that as well.

But you speak at conferences.

For example, you've spoken at the Toastmasters Convention.

All of them want to speak and so on.

You've been on Hollywood Cruise Lines.

You've spoken at Pepsi, Pepsi-Cola Company.

And these are big things.

- Yes, they are big things.

Yes.

Big scary things.

- And you get on that stage and... - What are you saying?

How'd that happen?

- Yeah.

- How'd that shy little storyteller.

And you don't know that about me either, is that I'm incredibly introverted and shy and had to learn how not to be.

It's easy to hide behind the lights.

If I hadn't, it's because I know how to tell a good story.

And I know how to tell a story that's not just about me, but it's about the audience and it connects with them.

And I know I began to... After I studied it for years, it was my craft.

And then I started studying because people would ask me, speakers would come to me as it morphed into speaking.

Jeannie Robertson was a pivotal turning point in my career.

She saw me telling stories under a tent and said, "You're not going to make any money this way.

The speaking business is the world that's going to want to see your craft."

And so I had to go figure out, well, who am I here?

How does that all play out in this world?

And from the beginning, speakers would say, "We want to tell stories like you do."

So I would start to go... I had to learn how what I did naturally, one does on purpose.

- You had to dissect it and be able to teach it.

Kelly, what makes a good story?

- A point, a reason for telling.

Stories are compelling and they're entertaining and they can make you laugh and they're great in theater, but in this business world, they're strategic.

So it starts with, why are you telling that story?

What are you hoping that you'll accomplish with that story?

How do you want them to think, feel and act as a result of hearing?

It's about persuasion is what it's really all about.

And story is the greatest tool that you have.

I say story goes where information can't reach.

It goes deeper and it creates that emotional connection, which in an AI driven world, I believe that connection will be the currency of the future and story will be your way.

- So how is a story different?

How is telling a story different than telling a joke or making an illustration on the stage or referring to an incident that's happened before?

- Sure, the different story and an anecdote or an example or an illustration.

The difference is that a story has an arc.

It has a beginning, a middle and an end.

It has a character who's gone through a conflict or has a desire with an emotion attached to it.

I always say, tell me your story, but don't forget to tell me how it made you feel when you went through that because when you name an emotion, their brain is now searching for that emotion, a time when they felt that way and now they're standing in their story at the same time as yours and you're taking them, you're test driving your truth.

- So when you spoke to Pepsi, for example, PepsiCo, you spoke for an hour or so, 45 minutes an hour.

How many stories did you tell in that hour?

- You're really making me trust my memory.

As a general rule, well, all of mine are stories back to back.

That is my template.

- But I'm trying-- - - I'll tell at least three, at least three.

- So these are long stories.

- Some are long, some are short.

My method is story, lesson, action, step.

I don't go heavy into content.

I let the story do the work.

Then I make a lesson that the story illustrated.

- Can you make up a story right now?

Can you tell me a story right now?

- I can tell you a story.

I can't promise it'll be good.

- Yeah, that's okay.

I just want to understand how a story works.

- Sure, sure.

And often in business, one of the best stories we have is a why story.

Why we do the work that we do and why it matters to us.

If you're going to sell anything, let us know why this matters so much to you.

I have many why stories, so I'm going to just pluck one.

This is not written, so no judging.

But when I'm trying to figure out who I want to be in this world and why I've been called to do this and what my space on this stage is supposed to do, I think to moments that have happened in the past.

And one of them, I was speaking at a community event.

They were giving out awards for the people who had worked there the longest, volunteered the longest.

I was the after dinner speaker.

Come up, do your thing, leave.

And my time got cut from an hour to, as you know, happens to, you got 12 minutes, roll with it.

And so I said, well, do what brung ya, just tell a story.

A story can do all the work that you need it to do.

And I told them a story about a job I did at a hospital.

This was a hospital event, by the way.

And how I'd gotten there at zero o'clock in the morning and I'm hitting the parking lot and it's a cold, dreary, dark day and I can hear singing.

♪ Some sweet morning when this day is over, I'll fly away.

♪ Those loud staccato jubilant notes of a life well lived.

The automatic glass doors opened up and I could see this woman standing there holding her mop as if it were a beloved dance partner, as if her faded cotton dress were made of the finest silk.

And long story short, I watched all throughout the day as this woman impacted everybody who crossed her path.

As she went over to a stranger and laid hands on them and prayed for their wounded child, as she gave somebody part of her lunch.

And it really impacted me because in the front of their building was a sign, floor to ceiling, slick, no doubt created by a group of marketing intellectuals.

And it said, "Excellent starts here."

And I wondered if their CEO knew just how true that really was, that that day a woman with a mop spoke more for the brand than any messaging could do.

So I'm telling that story at this after dinner thing for all these volunteers.

I do my thing, clap, clap, clap, clap, whatever, go home.

But there's a gentleman who's waited for everybody to leave.

And everybody walks off and he says, "Ma'am, do you have a moment?"

I said, "Yes, sir, I do."

And he was tall, much taller than me, stooped over, his eyes were weary.

And he said, "I just need you to know that I'm the woman with the mop."

And I knew exactly what he meant.

And he said, "I've been here with this hospital for going on 40 years."

I can't remember exactly how long it was, but I think he said 40 years in maintenance.

He said, "I don't believe anybody's ever made me feel important for what I do until now."

So why is it that me, we had nothing in common.

We come from different worlds.

Me and this gentleman were, but because of that story, and that's what I always love to unpack is, which we don't have time for today, is unpack that.

Look what that story did.

It allowed him to see himself in that and to feel valued for what he does.

That probably had more impact than somebody getting up saying, "Well done, here's a certificate.

Let's take your picture."

That's the power.

Now I've already forgotten the question.

But that's what I do as a storyteller, is I find those ordinary moments.

- So not every story is funny for you.

- No, no, no, no, no.

Stories is what I use to unlock.

- I see.

- Yes, there's a lot of heart behind it.

- So when you speak 45 minutes an hour, it's not all humor.

- No, but it's a lot of it.

It's a lot of it because that's the vehicle.

Somebody told me recently, he went, and it was so funny because it was a men's event.

I mean, I think they sell big equipment or something.

He was like, "We finally figured out at poker night what your keynote was like."

And I said, "What?"

And he said, "It was a keynote with all the feels."

[laughs] But I use humor.

That's the vehicle all the way through.

But somebody said, "You're like nuggets of wisdom disguised as comedy."

Now don't get me wrong.

I love to make people laugh at my expense.

And I've got stories, my closing story is 15 minutes long about me falling off on a stage in front of a bunch of engineers.

I love making, there is no better feeling.

- Is every story true for you?

- Ish.

Yeah, true ish.

- So you take some license.

- Oh, well sure, sure.

But not where it matters.

And people always ask me, "Where's the line?"

And I say, "Well, if it's a Tuesday in your story and it was really a Thursday, I'm going to be all right with that."

Or we take creative liberties.

But don't tell me a story you had cancer if you didn't.

Don't tell me a story, there are things that... - So Kelly, when you put that speech together, what do your notes in your brain look like?

Is it, "I'm going to tell this story, then this story, then this story, then this story?"

- Yes, I put it together almost like it's a show.

Because many of my clients, it depends on the client.

Because if they've come and said, "We want you to help us move our people from this step to this step in terms of being storytellers, then I'm going to approach that differently."

But the majority of my audiences, especially now, are saying, "We are stressed out.

We are running low on hope.

We are burned out.

We need you to come in and reattach our people to the passion and the purpose for what they do and why they do it.

We need this to be edutainment.

They've had a day of heavy content."

So that's my job.

Therefore, I'm coming in as the entertainer first, except that every story I have, it can be the funniest stories about my husband, the prepper, living with the motivational speaker, but it spins into a message of, you see everything.

It always has a point that they didn't see coming.

- How do you make sure that those listening to you don't get lost in the humor or in the telling of the story, that they forget the point?

- Well, don't make it too long.

If your story is longer, you can break it up and keep bringing it back in alignment with the point you're making.

That's what's so hard about our business, or being storytellers.

You don't know.

You're always thinking, "Was this too long?

Is it too short?

Did they want more details?

Did they want fewer details?"

Again, it'll come back to why you're being hired and what the purpose is, but I have never had anybody on any evaluation say, "That was great, but I wish you had taken out some of the details in that story."

Nobody has ever claimed a story was too long.

Dr.

Qubein, they don't move when I tell a story.

They don't pull out their phones.

I'm not giving myself credit.

They are leaning in.

A story done well, we know that.

People will watch four hours on Netflix of a guy with a mullet and a tiger.

Then when I go into content, I can see them.

Pull back, yeah.

Pull back, and so stories that are five minutes in length is a good rule of thumb.

- There was a great speaker in America that I had the privilege of knowing.

He wrote the foreword for my first book, so I loved the guy.

He was probably 85 at the time.

I was probably 30, 32.

His name was Norman Vincent Peale.

I had the privilege of speaking on the platform with him quite a few times.

I asked Dr.

Peale one time, "Dr.

Peale, why are your books so popular?

Why do people come so early to Marble Collegiate Church in Fifth Avenue, New York, and stand just to hear you speak?

What is it about what you do that's so magical?"

He said, "Well," he had one of these little drawn-out kind of speech methodologies.

He said, "Well, I make a point, I wrap it with a story.

I make a point, I wrap it with a story."

He said, "Sometimes they won't remember the point.

They remember the story, and then they extract the point from the story."

If you go back and look at his book, which sold an enormous number of copies, called The Magic of Positive Thinking, or The Power of Positive Thinking, it's true.

Every page has a story on it, and therefore it's a page-turner.

You can't put the book down.

The book was written 50, 60 years ago, maybe 70 years ago.

So there is no question about the fact that stories bring us in because we relate to the story.

Now, you did a marvelous show, which got great acclaim, was a one-woman show.

What made you think of it?

How did you do it?

And looking back now, what did you learn from it?

- It was not a planned act on my part.

People are like, "Oh, you got your dream."

No, I didn't.

I didn't see that coming.

That was scary.

Someone knocked on my door.

We're looking for somebody to put into our roster, to go into theaters.

Would you do this?

Okay, well, what would that look like?

They said, "Do you want to..." They were, I think, looking for a comedian.

I was like, "Well, I'm a storyteller who's funny.

I'm not going to be a stand-up comic."

And they're like, "Okay, well, let's give it a shot."

Next thing, I'm trying to put a show together.

And what'd you ask me again?

Now I've already forgotten the question.

How'd I get into that?

What was the second part of that?

- How does it feel?

I mean, you know... - Okay, sorry.

I do that.

I've talked myself into a wall.

- You go out on the stage.

It's just you.

- And it was so different because I had to get a director.

And he said, "Okay, show me your show."

It was already what I was doing in the speaking world.

I just got to take the speech out of it and be full on, tell my story to the world.

And I got to play, and I got to just... Theater released something in me that I didn't feel like I was graded.

I mean, I got a director and he says, "Okay, show me your show.

Your script is written."

And I stood in one spot, or like a speaker would do.

But he goes, "This is not going to work.

You have to use the space.

We're going to bring furniture in here.

We're going to..." And it was... I had to learn to walk again.

Who knew?

Yes.

Been walking for over 50 years.

So it was a big learning experience, brought all new fears.

Well, that is a completely different world.

But one thing about me, I never planned any of these places to be, but a door opened and I said, "Okay, maybe I'm supposed to be here for a reason."

And I just walked in.

And I don't know how fruitful that's going to be.

- Why did you call it "To Hijack My Fairy Tale"?

That was the name of the show?

"To Hijack My Fairy Tale."

- Yes, which was actually also the name of my first book.

Because my life story... Somebody asked me in the speaking business when I was like, "I don't know what I speak about.

What is my truth?"

And he said, "Well, what has your life taught you?"

And I was like, "Oh, that I don't fit the fairy tale.

That I don't look like the princess.

That I don't..." I see.

And who hijacked my fairy tale?

And my whole story is about story, about not fitting the story that the world wrote for me and dealing with that.

And in the book, I take a funny look at fairy tales and the myths that they taught us, but it's really about hanging onto a story and learning to let go and be who you're supposed to be.

So that was... My keynotes were called that as well.

And way back in the day, 20 years ago, it was a great title.

And so we just... I said, "Well, that's just a natural fit.

Let's make the first show called..." - And now among other things, you're a mentor for a Prime TV show on Amazon.

Is that right?

- Yeah.

What was the name?

"The Fashion Hero."

I was on TV.

- Yeah?

And what did you do there?

- Yeah, they brought me in as a celebrity mentor.

I didn't know I was a celebrity.

It was a show that was aimed at taking the fashion world and making it not just about looks and making it something deeper.

So they brought me in on two episodes and boy, you talk about being a fish out of water.

Elly May Clampett hits the high seas, whatever.

It was so... But they had me in one episode.

I helped them work on their confidence and their self-esteem.

And I was the motivational speaker in the room.

- In the show, I mean, you were acting.

- In the show.

Yeah.

Yes.

Well, I was me, but I wasn't acting.

It was a reality show.

I was in there to give them the confidence.

- I see.

- Because they're on camera, they're scared.

And then the second episode, it was how to tell their story.

Because as ambassadors of a brand or a fashion, they were going, whoever was going to win, would need to know how to represent that brand.

So I would give them presentation skills on authenticity.

- So now you do some of this teaching about storytelling to professional speakers and so on.

You also do it for sales professionals?

- Yeah, yeah.

I didn't see that coming either.

- And brand professionals?

- I love it.

Because anybody that needs to persuade is benefited, or anybody that has to give a presentation, which is why so many of my clients are speakers, or people who have to give presentations even if it's not their job.

But story's an integral part.

Some people say in speaking that the best speakers are the best storytellers.

- Yes.

That is a fact.

There's no question.

And history's filled with them.

Ken McFarland way back was one of the great storytellers.

And then speakers get all wrapped up in, I've got to give content, content, here are the seven points about this or that.

And then it gets all mixed up between keynoting and seminaring and workshopping, and all of those get kind of mixed up.

But I must say that you have been recognized in the speaking world, and you have been both nominated and inducted in the Speaker's Hall of Fame, which is quite an achievement for a speaker.

There are very few people in the world who are members of that, and that is selected by peers, which makes it even more important.

So Kelly, I know you like to make some humor out of all these achievements, but the truth is you've done amazing things in a very short time in a large country called United States of America, and people have noticed that and appreciated that.

What's next for you?

What is it that you want to do that you've written books, you've given speeches, you're teaching people how to tell stories, you've done some television, you've won these awards.

What's next for Kelly Swanson?

- I am in a state right now of, I don't know the word, because nobody's asked me this, introspection, meditation, prayer, whatever you want to call it, to figure out, I feel a sense of a clock ticking, and as I'm sure many of us do the older we get, and a sense of I have been given this gift.

It's a gift, and I honor that.

There are some things, there's a lot of things I can't do, but I know what I have been anointed with a gift, and I am in a state now, it's always been about the hustle.

It's a career.

Can I make money at this?

How can I do, what do I want to build as a business?

Now, what am I being called to do, and what moments are we headed for, and where will I be called to bring my gift, and I don't have an answer yet, but now it's not about money and it's not about accolades.

It feels so good, but now it's about did I use my time on this earth with the gifts that I was given for the purpose that I was given them.

Does that make sense?

- There's a difference between legacy and impact.

Right.

You're focused on impacting others, which leads me to this question.

Are you speaking to any young people like in high school or college?

- I don't want to, but it's happening.

- Yeah.

Why don't you want to?

- Because I feel like they don't want to have somebody come in and here's their mom telling them what to do, or their grandmother.

Lord, help them get to that age.

I feel like I can't connect because I'm so far removed from what they experience.

How can I be a role model except everywhere I go, people say, "You need to be speaking to our youth.

I need to bring my daughter.

I need to bring my son."

Because often, especially the messages around mindset are things that when we get to our age we've worked on that and it's so critical for children to be taught how to think and how much control they have over the story that they're writing and how that's dictating the world around them and how they can change that.

So, we'll see.

I'm going to be open to it.

I also can't ... There's two gifts.

There's the gift of being on a stage and cracking open someone's heart and making them ... I had somebody once say, "You gave me the courage to keep pedaling.

I was planning my exit strategy before I came here today."

I thought she meant retirement.

I'm an idiot.

She goes, "No, that's not what I mean."

She said, "I was planning my exit strategy."

She said, "But your words, your story about the bike and to keep pedaling and to let go made me think I must be here for a purpose."

That's the kind of work I want to do.

- You're an encourager and an inspirer.

You use stories as the tool to communicate and connect with people in that way.

I think that's why you've been a smashing success at what you do in a field that so many try to be successful and can't sustain it.

You've sustained it over this long time.

Kelly, thank you for being with me on Side by Side.

I wish for your greatness in all you do.

Keep on inspiring.

Keep on encouraging.

The world needs what you have to offer.

- Thank you.

It's an honor.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Funding for "Side by Side with Nito Cabane" is made possible by... - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors.

From 13 facilities and 4,500 hardworking teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- Truist.

We're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist.

Leaders in banking.

Unwavering in care.