Israel must immediately take steps to prevent acts of genocide in the war in Gaza that historic ruling today from the top court for the United Nations in a case brought by South Africa accusing Israel of violating International laws on genocide in the conflict but the sweeping ruling from the international court of justice stopped short of ordering a ceasefire which is what South Africa requested the court ordered Israel to limit the death and destruction caused by its military offensive in the Gaza Strip and to prevent and punish incitement to genocide along with ensuring humanitarian Aid is getting into The Enclave the decision comes just a day before International Holocaust Remembrance Day with many pro-israel groups saying the decision cheapens the essence of the term genocide but the ruling also operates as a restraining order of sorts while the court considers the full merits of the genocide case experts say that could take years for more I'm joined by Kenneth Roth he served for nearly three decades as the Executive Director of Human Rights Watch and is a visiting professor at Princeton University Kenneth Roth uh always uh an honor to get to talk to you what exactly what exactly does this ruling from the icj mean this is a very important ruling and it's a repudiation of Israel's denialism you know Israel says we're being completely lawful in Gaza we're not doing anything wrong um it's only Hamas that does things wrong and the court essentially said no that's not a fair description now it's important to stress this was not a ruling on the ultimate merits of whether Israel is committing genocide or not this was an order for what are called provisional measures basically a protective order to protect the rights of Palestinian civilians to make sure that they're not compromised under the genocide convention and the court found it plausible that they would be if it didn't intervene and so that's why it issued its order today it's a binding order but is there any way to enforce this ruling and I'm thinking of course back to 2022 when the court also ordered Russia to uh stop its invasion of Ukraine we see two years later that war is still raging is there are there any teeth to this well the court you know stressed which is legally true that this is a binding decision but the only way to apply coercive measures would be through the UN Security Council which means dealing with the US veto and typically the US exercises Theo to protect Israel but we shouldn't underestimate the importance of this ruling because there is now going to be enormous political pressure on Israel to comply having sent its lawyers to the ha and argued its case it can't very well say oh well we would have accepted the Court's ruling if it was in our favor but we reject an adous ruling you know that's just not going to wash and so I think you know the burden really is now on the supporters of Israel to press Netanyahu to live up to what the court ordered um clearly Biden has the most leverage you know $3.8 billion dollars in annual military aid the major arms supplier um now you know the US says they support a rules-based order you can't have an Israel exception to that what is this going to look like in a practical sense so these emergency measures are put in place um do we expect Israel to compl what have we heard so far from prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and what what might we see change well Netanyahu issued a statement which was his typical statement it was kind of you know a PR statement it wasn't a legal statement so he said it's outrageous to say that Israel committed genocide but you know the court didn't rule that that's the ruling of the marus this was just a provisional ruling um he said you know nobody's going to stop our self-defense nobody's claiming they have to stop their self-defense this is about the means used in that self-defense and there really are essentially two key elements to this order you know one is to stop the bombing that is causing so much harm to civilians you know particularly things like these 2,000 pound bombs they didn't mention that but that was a key part of South Africa's case the second is to open up and let the aid in you know there clearly the court went on and on about the huge deprivation caused to the Palestinian civilian population of Gaza and they basically ordered Israel to stop the obstructionism to stop the you know the m drib and drabs of Aid that it lets in and to open up the doors because otherwise there's massive starvation massive deprivation a real catastrophe as the court said I I have to just think about the gravity of this and and the history of Israel being accused of committing the very crime that's deeply woven into the fabric of Israel um and the Israeli people which is genocide as someone who has spent their life studying this watching this I feel like we can't um we can't undervalue just the piece of how how heavy this is you're absolutely right Brian and you know that was part of the Israeli defense but it's completely not a defense you know yes Israel was created to protect Jews from genocide after the Holocaust but um that doesn't mean that as it's defending itself from the horrible October 7th commas attack that anything goes it still has to abide by basic rules and the court found it was plausible that Israel was violating the genocide convention and so that's why it issued these orders.

Kenneth Roth is a human rights activist and also a visiting professor at Princeton University Kenneth thank you so much thanks for having me [Music]