(bright upbeat music) - Thank you for joining us today, I'm your host, Leia' Love and this is "Forum 360" where we have a global outlook from a local view.

Today, we are going to talk about TEXTURES: the art and history of Black hair with Dr. Tameka Ellington and Dr. Joseph Underwood.

Thank you guys so much for joining us today.

- Oh, it's our pleasure.

- So tell us what is TEXTURES and where can people learn about it?

- TEXTURES, the history and art of Black hair is an exhibition at Kent State University.

And people can find out about it via our website.

So we have a website on WordPress and I can make sure that you get the links so that your audience can have an opportunity to view that.

- Perfect, so how was it putting it together?

How did you come to the thought and the creation process, all of that?

- Well, TEXTURES is actually a combination of work that I've been doing since 2002.

So I started researching about Black beauty, particularly about Black hair when I was a master's student at Michigan State.

And ever since then, I've had this burning desire to wanna know as much as I could about Black beauty, about Black hair and the disdain that society has for Black hair.

And so, I've published several articles and I'm actually in the process of writing a book.

So it's been a part of my research life for quite some time.

And since I'm a creative, my background is in fashion and so I'm a fashion scholar.

I really wanted to have a way to take everything that I learned over that time period and figure out a way to introduce it to others in a visual way so that they can get a chance to really get a feel for the culture visually.

And I met Dr. Joseph about five years ago when he came to Kent State University as a assistant professor for art history and when I found out about what his scholarship was all about, I knew he was gonna be the perfect partner for me.

So, yeah.

- And you Dr. Joseph, how did you come into this?

- Well, it was really just a great collaboration to work with interdisciplinary ideas with Dr. Tameka in fashion and my research comes mostly from Africa, the continent with art history and then how it gets shown in museums and displays and those kinds of politics.

So we both have very different kind of approaches to the topic but it was an opportunity to really lean on each other and think, well, what's something her typical audience might not think about and what something mine wouldn't?

And I think we really got the best of both worlds with our exhibition and with the book that came out with the exhibition.

- Awesome, and how did you choose your artists?

Because I know you have a lot from all over.

- So we actually compiled thousands of images across history and thought, you know, what is gonna be the best way to tell the breadth of this story going back to the African continent but also the African continent today, the diaspora, the Caribbean, U.S. politics.

I mean, and it's really not even something you can cover.

So we came down and consolidated this thousands of images into a few themes.

And so the artist just really spoke to really salient topics whether it was about Black hair care, politics of hair within the Black community, the politics as it fits into global society and what's perceived of as acceptable or beautiful.

Things that were historical things that were contemporary.

So we have 55 named artists plus dozens of others from different people groups across Africa or South America.

- Okay, and you said that it was broken into different themes.

Can you tell me what those themes are?

- Yes, so Dr. Joseph and I, we broke the exhibition down into community and memory, hair politics, and Black joy.

- Okay and why did you choose those themes?

- Well, we wanted to as much as possible tell the whole story of Black hair.

I mean, there's no way we can really tell the whole story but we wanted to give different perspectives of the story.

The last thing we wanted was to have an exhibition that was all about the struggle that Black people have with their hair.

I mean, that's definitely a part of it in the politics section of the exhibition but we didn't wanna have a show just about the struggle.

We wanted to give people an essence of what the history was like.

You know, we wanted to give people an essence of what is it like to be someone of color, to be a Black person and just to be absolutely joyful being a Black person.

And so that's the reason why we chose those three themes and wanted to specifically call those out, yeah.

- So what is your favorite piece in the exhibit?

- Oh, that's a trick question.

I'll let Dr. Joseph answer that first.

- I would have to say probably it's a big installation by South African artist, Mary Sibande.

She takes a life-size past of her own body and dresses it in a blue maid's uniform from South Africa but she turns it from a simple maid's uniform into this 16 foot diameter ball gown.

And it's the literal centerpiece of our show because it just takes up so much space and this kind of super heroic figure is actually using synthetic hair to weave a portrait of Madam C.J.

Walker who was a very influential and important haircare innovator.

So just kind of that, even that dialogue between an African artist and an entrepreneur business woman from the United States, having that kind of cross-cultural, cross historical periods dialogue, it just really encapsulates the spirit of our show and how we're not just kinda telling it from one perspective, we're thinking very globally but with a local view.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And for me, I would say my favorite, I really have a hard time choosing because I just love so many of the pieces but the ones that spoke to me in the very beginning was a piece by two pieces actually, a piece by an artist Masa Zodros, it's called Femme Totem Blue.

And then another piece by an artist Delita Martin, it's called The Light.

And the reason why I liked those two pieces and what's really interesting is that both Dr Joseph's and my favorites are blue in color pieces so, but these two pieces really represent the idea that Black hair is not just a part of your body.

That Black hair is actually a part of your entire spiritual being, Seeing the hair as a totem pole, the way that Masa Zodros created the print that he created and just the fact that the Black hair has the capability of defying gravity and being able to really be able to touch the heavens.

Like our hair grows up and out and it's in a formation that is very closely connected to spirit.

And so when I look at those two pieces, it just reminds me of how important hair is not just to our body but also to our spirit.

- Oh, I love it, I love it.

After being able to go and see the exhibit, one of the pieces that stuck out to me was the Corn Grinder.

Can you elaborate on that?

- That was something that Dr. Joseph and I had absolutely no idea that we were gonna be bringing into the show.

He and I had the privilege of going out to San Diego to meet one of our lenders.

He's one of our major lenders, he allowed us to borrow over 100 pieces from his collection.

His name is Dr. Willie Morrow.

Dr. Morrow is a legend in the hair industry.

He started off his career as a barber in the 1950s.

He is well known for a book that he wrote called "400 Years Without a Comb".

And that's how I personally found out about him first through his book and then once I started researching more about him, I found out that he had a collection.

He has the largest collection in the nation of Black hair artifacts.

And so Dr. Joseph and I went out to San Diego to meet him and we were going through his warehouse, selecting the items that we want it for the show and he said, "Oh, you guys have to take the Corn Grinder".

And we were like, "The Corn Grinder?

"Why do we need to take the Corn Grinder?"

And Dr. Morrow who is now in his 80s told Dr. Joseph and I the story of how enslaved peoples would take corn, put it in the corn grinder, grind it up, make this corn meal and then use that as a cleaning agent for their hair.

- I just can't believe it.

- Yeah.

- And I've never heard that before.

- I know, I know, yeah.

I mean, we use what we had.

- Yeah.

- We use what we had, yeah.

- I think that's amazing.

So why do you think that hair is so big for the African culture?

- It's a big deal for the African culture because to be truthfully honest, our hair grows differently than any other culture in the whole world, right?

Latin X individuals, people from India, their hair all grows out straight.

African hair is the only hair that actually grows out and up.

And because our hair is so different than others, people who are non-Black and even many Black people don't know a lot about Black hair.

And so, it becomes a topic of controversy because not only is Black hair different but it's also definitely related to racialized identity.

You know, you can tell that a person is Black by the hair texture and that was one of the things that was a dead giveaway.

You know long time ago, they had the one drop rule.

If you were one drop Black, you could tell that because of the person's hair texture, that was one of the ways.

And so it's been difficult for us as Black people to wrap our brains around the difficulties that society has with our hair because it's so closely connected to discrimination so, yeah.

- [Leia'] Did you have anything you wanted to add?

- Well, I think the discrimination that Dr. Tameka is referencing really segues into this idea of texturism.

So do you wanna elaborate on that Dr. Tameka as like a phenomenon?

- Yeah, texturism is a term that I coined, it's closely connected to colorism.

Colorism was coined by Alice Walker, the author.

And basically colorism is the idea that anyone who is lighter skin tone, Black person, lighter skin tone is better than, is more intelligent, is more attractive.

And the same thing with hair texture, somebody who has straighter hair texture is considered to be more beautiful, more attractive.

And so, we still have so far to go in regards to putting ourselves in categories 'cause as you know, you know Black hair, a lot of times we categorize it by alphanumeric categories.

And oftentimes those categories can also become status symbols saying that, oh, I'm a three type hair.

That means that my hair is better than someone who was a four type hair, right?

So it's still a controversial thing because it's still very racialized, yeah.

- If you are just joining us, we are talking about TEXTURES, the art exhibit at Kent State.

It's the history about Black hair and we're talking to Dr. Joseph Underwood and Dr. Tameka Ellington.

Okay, so we know that there's the Crown Act.

Can you talk to us a little bit about the Crown Act and what can corporate America do to help with this?

- So the Crown Act was actually established in July of 2019.

California was the first state to adopt it.

And then soon after New York also adopted it.

Crown Act now, from what I remember is in about 15 different states now and it has been accepted.

I know here in Ohio, we're still working towards getting that act accepted.

And so the Crown Act is basically a law prohibiting discrimination against Black hair and it's a way for people who want to wear their hair in its natural state because many Black people do wear their hair straight, women in particular.

And if they decide that they wanna wear their hair in its natural kinky, curly state that employers, other institutions, schools, they're not allowed to discriminate against those individuals because of it.

Like I said, again, you know, Black hair is very racialized which is very closely connected to discrimination and so Black hair is also discriminated against.

- Dr. Joseph, why do you feel that you had a responsibility for learning, telling the stories, as well as what is your advice for people who feel like they want to help but maybe adding to the problem or maybe feel like they're the problem but they just wanna actually help and have a genuine spirit with it?

- Yeah, I think it's an interesting question because you have to think about your position and where you are in society.

I am male, I am Asian American.

What are your different identities and what privileges do they afford you?

So I think one of the most important things to think about is even if this topic doesn't affect me or my family or people who look like me, we're still voting citizens.

And these, you know, we just mentioned the Crown Act, there are legislation but it can be something as simple as what are the dress codes at your school rule and so, your school.

So if you're a parent on the PTA, you need to kind of be informed about these topics in order to be like a good neighbor and civically engaged.

So we really thought the exhibition could be a space where people could ask questions without you know, oh, you should have already known that.

But also challenge, there were some artists who have very strong feelings and so they're challenging people who are kind of not getting to this conversation quickly enough.

And so I think advice for people who want to help is just be aware of the space you're taking up and maybe the best thing you can do is say, here's you know, like if I'm in a meeting and I just get called on, I say, thank you for calling on me, I'm deferring to Dr. Tameka because that's who you need to hear from right now.

So just use your space to give a platform to someone else.

And I think that's what we did with this exhibition.

We have almost 200 objects that range from Egyptian artifacts up to today.

We're giving a platform for a lot of different people from across different time periods and geographies to talk about hair issues.

- Yeah and something that was really important for Dr. Joseph and I, our partnership was that, he and I together were able to be able to cross over.

So if I did the show by myself, people would not have assumed that it was for them, others, you know, who are non-Black.

They would have assumed that, okay, this is an exhibition specifically for Black people, about Black people.

But having a partnership with Dr. Joseph allows for that crossover, allows for others to see that this is a topic that's very important to you as well.

- I love it, I love it.

- You do have an interactive component to the exhibit.

Can you tell us about that and in particular going into talking about, can I touch your hair?

- Oh, okay.

(Tameka and Leia' laughing) - So we were inspired by the "Motorist Green Book" that was published between 1936 and '66.

It was a guide that let African Americans know where they could travel safely, where they could find services like restaurants, hotels, but also incredibly barbershops.

It was that important as you were traveling to know where you could get your hair taken care of.

And we even see that echoed today you know, there was that viral TikTok of a young Black lady who like was going through the phone book calling barber shops asking if they can take care of her hair and they were all so confused, you know?

So it's really relevant even though it's a document and publication that's already 70 years old.

So what we did was we compiled interviews with 10 area barbers, salon, artists, braiders, and then mixed in historical documents, parts of the documentary, you know, can I touch your hair?

And so this is a digital interactive that's also available online.

So you can look this up from home, watch these videos, you can respond to it by making your own kind of poems and publishing those.

I've read some incredible ones from visitors and they're all available online.

So you can see what they've created in response to these materials.

- [Tameka] Yeah.

- So how do you feel about the question, can I touch your hair and why is it, why is it maybe misunderstood or people might get offended by that question?

- Okay, so "Can I Touch Your Hair" was a short film that was created by a duo group in New York, Unruly but really where they got the concept from is the fact that because of the fact that Black people have such a different type of texture of hair, a lot of people are curious about our hair and because Black people oftentimes have not been allowed to have their own agency of their body, people will just come out and just touch their hair without asking permission.

And so being able to do that, being able to just touch someone's hair, you're invading their privacy, you're invading everything about them as a human being, right?

And so it's often times difficult conversation when we have someone who was non-Black who's that curious about hair that they feel like they need to touch it.

And that goes back to also enslavement, Black people being considered as pets or being considered as entertainment and us not really having agency over our bodies.

And so, it's a way for us to be able to take back some of that agency by saying, no, you can't touch my hair, right?

But again, the Unruly group, what they did was they actually took that and kind of flipped it on its head and they wanted people to come and touch their hair.

And the reason why is because they wanted to provide a safe space where people who are non-Black, who are very curious about Black hair texture and have a true desire to understand, a true desire to have some empathy and to you know, just to be able to understand the humanness of Black beauty, they gave the space for people to come over and actually have a conversation about the hair texture.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- Awesome.

What do you think is the most interesting thing that you've found during your research?

- Something that was really interesting to me was that, throughout the entire process, whenever we would have different events and other things like that, like people would tell us, oh, well, this topic is very, very timely.

And I was surprised that people looked at it as something that was timely seeing as though Black people have dealt with discrimination for thousands of years and again, along with that hair discrimination for thousands of years.

You know, when slaves were brought over to different parts of the world, one of the things that was taken away from them was their hair.

Their heads were shaved, oftentimes the tools that they needed to take care of their hair, they weren't allowed to take those tools with them.

And so, it was a situation where Black people were stripped of any identity regarding their hair.

- Okay.

- Yeah, yeah.

- I think one other thing that was really intriguing was we like with Dr. Tamika's research and a lot of what we've talked about so far, it's focusing on the U.S. context.

Politics here, how Black hair is perceived, that history.

And of course there are resonances with other parts of the world where there was colonialism but I was constantly challenged because we have several artists from Africa working today from the Caribbean who were only talking about positive aspects of hair because there's not the same kinds of hair discrimination, right?

With Black being kind of a majority culture or hair having been esteemed in kind of traditional people groups, with traditional hairstyles.

There's still, of course, contemporary politics with the influx of weaves and synthetic wigs to west Africa, for example but there is still, it was free in many ways from hair discrimination by local populations where you're still the majority.

So even just kind of hearing the artists kept challenging these things where we wanted to say, well, this is a blanket statement and then it was like, no, here's an individual narrative.

Or here's what we think is the trend.

Yeah but it was different here.

So just getting that nuance back in the story is such a powerful kind of anti-colonial statement about just flattening Black cultures, Black histories, there is so much nuance that we have to let challenge us.

- Right.

- You know, in saying that, what would you want the conversations to be after someone leaves the exhibit?

You know, what would you like that to continue to be as it expands?

- I think one of the first things I want people to take away is just, this is relevant to me, regardless of your personal background, your socioeconomic status, also that this museum is for you.

There's a whole history of people of color having been barred from entering these spaces or that their stories not being told on the wall or in the exhibitions.

So I want people to say, oh, like, I hadn't thought about this whole topic.

What other topics are there that I'm not even aware of yet?

I want people to say you know, to kind of gain that humility.

- Yeah, for me I believe one of the main reasons that I been wanting to do hair research in the first place is just to bring to the forefront the importance of looking at Black people as human and not looking at us as othered or as something that is totally just very, very different.

For me as a Black woman, a Black woman who is brown skin with kinky hair, it was important for me to have other people just to see the humanist in my beauty.

The humanness in all Black beauty.

- I love it, I love it.

- Yeah, yeah.

- What are some resources people can continue learning more and diving more into Black hair?

- Well, for start, they can start on our website.

There's lots of information on there and I'll make sure that you have the link.

But they can go to our website, I've written several publications.

So if you Google my name, you can also find some research.

There's other people such as Cheryl Thompson, she's a prolific writer about Black hair.

She has several books and articles.

Also two, if they go to the encyclopedias, some of the Berg fashion encyclopedia also has some information about Black hair, really overall Black dress like the culture of Black dress.

So they wanna even get further into how hair is connected to the culture of Black dress.

Then they can get that information through encyclopedia such as the Berg Encyclopedia of World Fashion.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- I would definitely point people toward some of the resources on our website Dr. Tameka mentioned.

It's texturesksumuseum.wordpress.com.

And we have categories that are for educators, so you can download lesson plans that already incorporate our exhibition materials with ready to go lessons and guides.

We have just filmed a virtual tour of the exhibition so it's gonna be an hour long walk through of understanding some of the pieces.

And then the digital green book I mentioned is on that website as well.

So we've tried to really centralize these materials so that when the exhibition comes down off the walls, people who need this information from students to scholars, to educators, to the interested neighbor, you know, it's kind of compiled in one spot.

- Perfect and then how long will they exhibit be up for?

- So it'll be open until August of 2022.

- August of 2022.

- Yes.

- Thank you both so much for all of your information and your insight and I hope you all learned a little bit more about Black hair and the history and art of Black hair and we hope that you go visit the TEXTURES Exhibit at Kent State Museum.

I'm your host, Leia' Love and thank you for joining us on "Forum 360" where we have a global outlook from a local view.

Have a great week.

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