WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

OUR TOPIC TONIGHT: KENTUCKY LEGISLATION ON LGBTQ+ YOUTH.

THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY RECESSED LAST THURSDAY AND WILL RETURN MARCH 29TH FOR TWO DAYS TO CONSIDER OVERRIDING ANY VETOES FROM GOVERNOR BESHEAR.

BEFORE RECESSING, LAWMAKERS PASSED SENATE BILL 150.

THAT BILL DOES SEVERAL THINGS.

THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT TONIGHT.

IT BANS GENDER-AFFIRMING MEDIC CARE FOR TRANS YOUTH.

IT ALLOWS TEACHERS TO USE A STUDENT'S GENDER PRONOUN AT BIRTH, EVEN IF THAT MEANS IGNORING THE STUDENT'S WISHES.

IT BANS SCHOOLS PROVIDING INSTRUCTION OR PRESENTATION ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY OR GENDER EXPRESSION WITH STUDENTS.

AND IT KEEP SCHOOL BOARDS FROM ALLOWING TRANSGENDER KIDS FROM USING RESTROOMS, LOCKER ROOMS AND SHOWERS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM THEIR BIRTH sex.

THE BILL GENERATED FIERCE, SOMETIMES ANGRY DEBATE IN FRANKFORT LAST WEEK WITH CRITICS APRILING THESE POLICIES WOULD HURT TRANSGENDER YOUTH AND LEAD TO MORE discusses.

TO DISCUSS THAT BILL AND OTHER LEGISLATION AFFECTING THE LGBTQ+ COMMUNITY, WE ARE JOINED IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO BY: STATE SENATOR GEX WILLIAMS, A REPUBLICAN FROM VER CHRIS HARTMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE FAIRNESS CAMPAI RICHARD NELSON, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COMMONWEALTH POLICY CENTER.

AND JACKIE MCGRANAHAN, POLICY STRATEGIST FOR THE ACLU OF KENT.

WE CERTAINLY WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU tonight SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS BY TWITTER @KYTONIGHT SEND AN EMAIL TO KYTONIGHT@KET.

OR USE THE WEB FORM AT KET.ORG/.

OR YOU MAY SIMPLY GIVES US A ca AT 1-800-494-7605.

6 WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.

I KNOW YOU'RE STILL RECOVERING FROM A VERY ROBUST SESSION SO I THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE ON THIS VERY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

I WANT TO BEGIN WITH YOU, SENATOR WILLIAMS.

AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS SESSION THERE WAS LEADERSHIP WHO SAT IN THE SAME SEATS THAT YOU ALL ARE OCCUPYING TONIGHT WHO SAID THAT THIS WOULD BE A SESSION OF TWEAKING, THAT YOU WOULD LOWER THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX RATE AGAIN BY ANOTHER HALF PERCENT AND MAYBE DO DISASTER RELIEF, BUT WITH ALL THE EDUCATIONAL CONCERNS ABOUT LEARNING LOSS FROM COVID, ABOUT LITERACY PROFICIENCY, ABOUT DISASTER RELIEF, HOW DID THIS ISSUE RISE TO THE LEVEL OF PROMINENCE AND PRIORITY FOR THE REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE AND WHY?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S PROTECTING CHILDREN, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THE BIGGEST CHUCKLE I GOT IN THE SENATE WAS SAYING AFTER 24 YEARS OF BEING OUT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THAT I ACTUALLY BELIEVED PEOPLE SAYING THAT NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL WAS GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS GENERAL ASSEMBLY BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENS THAT WAY.

WE ALWAYS START OUT SAYING IT'S AN OFF-YEAR, WE'RE GOING TO TWEAK.

IT CHANGES.

AND I THINK THE OVERARCHING SUPPORT WAS THE COMPARE AND CONCERN FOR PARENTS AND CHILDREN, AND THAT'S REALLY THE PROTECTION OF CHILDREN WAS A PRY MYER PRIMARY FOCUS THAT PROCEEDS TO THE TOP IN THIS INSTANCE.

THERE'S A NUMB OF THEY ARE THINGS WE DID BUT THAT WAS WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WAS ABOUT, PROTECTING CHILDREN, PRESENTING THEIR PARENTS.

>> WERE YOU HEARING FROM CONSTITUENTS AND YOUR OTHER COLLEAGUES, WE HEARD KENTUCKY PARENTS WERE TALKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES?

IS THAT WHERE THE GROUNDSWELL CAME FROM?

>> I THINK WHY YOU ENDED UP HAVING OVER 80% IN THE SENATE VOTING FOR IT AND OVER 75% IN THE HOUSE VOTING FOR THESE THINGS.

THEY DON'T JUST COME DOWN HERE AND DECIDE TO VOTE ON THINGS THEMSELVES.

THEY, LIKE ME, HEARD FROM THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

>> SO I WANT TO GO TO YOU NOW, MR. HARTMAN.

THERE ARE AGE MIMMS FOR LOTS OF ACTIVITIES, TO PURCHASE CAPITOL AND TOBACCO YOU HAVE TO BE 21, 18 TO JOIN THE MILITARY.

17 TO VOTE.

THOSE ARE TO PROTECT MINORS FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF ACTIONS THEY MAY NOT FULLY UNDER THE BREADTH OF.

WHY ISN'T IT REASONABLE TO PROTECT KIDS FROM GENERAL-ALTERING SURGERIES AND TREATMENTS.

>> FIRST OF ALL LET ME SAY SURGERIES ARE NOT HAPPENING AT LEAST UNDER THE AGE OF 18 AT LEAST IN COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY AND WE DON'T SUPPORT THEM HAPPENING.

IT'S SO DISINGENUOUS TO SAY SENATOR WILLIAMS SAY THIS WAS A SESSION ABOUT PROTECTING PARENTS BECAUSE ALL THEY DID WAS SUBVERT PARENTS' RIGHTS.

KIDS GOTTEN TO DON'T MAKE THE DECISION TO PURSUE GENDER-AFFIRMING SURGERIES WITH THEMSELVES THEY MAKE THEM WITH PARENTS, IN CLOSE CONSULTATION WITH PHYSICIANS.

IT'S WHY GENDER-AFFIRMING THERAPY IS APPROVED BY EVERY MAJOR U.S. MEDICAL ASSOCIATION.

>> SO WHY, IF IT'S NOTE HAPPENING IN KENTUCKY, SENATOR WILLIAMS, WAS THERE A NEED FOR A LAW TO BAN IT?

>> WELL, THE DRUGS ARE THE KEY PART OF IT.

WE HAVE 30 OR 40 TRILLION CELLS IN OUR BODY AND THE DRUGS ARE BEING ADMINISTERED.

THAT IS HAPPENING IN KENTUCKY.

AND PARENTS, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT WHY THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS IS DOWN NOW AS OPPOSED TO COVID, ONE OF THE REASONS IS PARENTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS.

I HAVE A FOURTH GRADE PATIENT CHILD WHO WAS IN FOURTH GRADE WHO WAS ASKED BY THE NURSE HOW SHE IDENTIFIED.

AND THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THAT.

THE PARENTS TOOK HER OUT OF SCHOOL.

AND THAT'S AN ISSUE.

>> RENEE, I WOULD SAY THAT WHEN CHILDREN HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THEIR PARENTS, WHEN TRANS CHILDREN HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE PARENTS, IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE PARENTS' RIGHTS AND THE CHILD'S RIGHTS, THE STUDENT'S RIGHTS TO HAVE THEIR GENDER IDENTITY, THEIR PRONOUNS, THEIR CHOSEN NAME RESPECTED IN THE SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT AND NOT DOING SO LEADS TO THAT INCREASED LEVEL OF DEPRESSION.

AND UNFORTUNATELY SUICIDEALITIY THAT NONE OF THE SENATORS WANT TO TALK ABOUT OR GIVE ANY CREDENCE TO EVEN THOUGH IT IS WELL DOCUMENTED, SENATOR , AND YOU KNOW IT.

>> WHAT I KNOW IS THIS BILL HAS NOT PASSED AND THE SUICIDE RATES HAVE BEEN INCREASING BECAUSE OF THE GENDER-CONFUSING CARE.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

IS GENDER-CONFUSING CARE, NOT AFFIRMING IT.

IF YOU'RE AFFIRMING YOUR GENDER, YOUR AFFIRMING WHAT THE 30 OR 40 TRILLION CELLS IN YOUR BODY SAY THAT YOU ARE AND WHEN YOU TRY TO FIGHT THAT WITH DRUGS OR ANY OTHER WAY, YOU'RE GOING TO END UP WITH PROBLEMS.

>> WHEN I WAS GOING TO SAY IN THE BEGINNING IS IT ALSO BANS PUBERTY BLOCKERS FOR KIDS UNDER THE AGE OF 18.

>> NOT COMPLETELY BECAUSE ARE THERE PREPUBESCENT ACTIVITY THAT WILL DELAY IT AND IT'S FDA APPROVED FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME THAT.

THAT'S PERMITTED.

>> I WANT TO GO TO YOU RICHARD NELSON WITH THE COMMONWEALTH POLICY.

YOU'RE ALSO A PRO INNOCENT OF SMALL GOVERNMENT AND LIBERTIES.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> HOE HOW DOES THIS BILL, THIS LEGISLATION NOT RUN AFOUL OF THOSE PRINCIPLES?

>> GOOD QUESTION.

I'M ALSO FOR -- I'M ALSO FOR PROTECTING THE WELL-BEING OF CHILDREN FOR THEIR BIOLOGICAL INTEGRITY, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, TO TAKE IT LITTLE FURTHER THE POINT THAT YOU MADE, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS UNDER KENTUCKY LAW THAT WE DON'T ALLOW CHILDREN TO DO.

THEY CAN'T GET A TATTOO UNTIL 16, CAPITOL UNTIL THEIR 21, CAN'T VOTE UNTIL THEY'RE 18.

THE REASON WHY WE HAVE THOSE LAWS IN PLACE IS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT CONSENT TO THINGS.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE MENTAL CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND THE DECISIONS THAT THEY ARE MAKING.

THEIR FRONTAL LOBE IS NOT FULLY DEVELOPED UNTIL THEY'RE IN THEIR MID-20s.

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE INTERCEDE, IF YOU WILL, FOR CHILDREN WHO ARE SUFFERING FROM GENDER FIS OVERPHORIA, AND WE NEED TO BE COMPASSIONATE TO THOSE CHILDREN, WHICH BY THE WAY GENDER DYSPHORIA JUST TO HAVE A DEFINITION WAS THIS IS WHERE THE MENTAL STATE IS INCONGRUENT WITH THE BIOLOGICAL REALITY, AND IT'S SOMETHING JUST A FEW YEARS WALK 15, 20 YEARS AGO WASN'T AN ISSUE, CERTAINLY WASN'T IN THE MAINSTREAM AND BIEBER DATED.

WE HAVE MANY CHILDREN SUFFERING FROM DYSPHORIA.

IN THE SENATE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES COMMIT BY DETRANSITIONERS, TWO YOUNG GIRLS IN PARTICULAR SAID THAT THEY WENT THROUGH THE HORMONE THERAPY AND TRANSITION SURGERY AND THEY REGRETTED IT.

NOT ONLY DID THEY REGRET IT, BUT THEY ARE SUFFERING PHYSICAL HARM FROM THE TRANSITIONS THAT THEY DID WHEN THEY WERE TEENAGERS.

>> SO WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT POINT.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT DEFINITION OF GENDER DYSPHORIA, THIS SIDE OF THE GROUP, MR. HARTMAN WHAT HE SAID?

IS THAT THE CLINICAL DEFINITION THAT YOU ALSO UNDERSTAND?

>> I DON'T AGREE WITH MUCH THAT RICHARD SAYS EVEN THOUGH WE GET ALONG WELL WITH ONE ANOTHER.

I THINK IT'S MUCH MORE NUANCED THAN THAT.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BIOLOGICAL REALITIES.

SEX IS A VERY COMPLICATED THING.

IT'S NOT JUST VISIBLE BY THE EYE.

THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS, CHROMOSOMAL, HORMONAL FACTORS THAT GO INTO SEX.

SO, NO, IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS RICHARD IS TRYING TO MAKE FOLKS THINK THAT IT IS.

>> JACKIE MCGRANAHAN, I WANT TO COME TO YOU FINALLY.

IT'S TAKEN JUST A MOMENT.

TUT THE AC L.A. HAS MADE ITS POSITION AND STAKE ON THIS CLEAR, AND IT'S EVEN TALKED ABOUT POSSIBLE LEGAL ACTION SHOULD THIS BECOME LAW.

TELL US THE OPPOSITION AND ARE YOU READY TO FILE A LAWSUIT?

>> SO FIRST I WANT TO SAY THAT TRANSGENDER KENTUCKIANS AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AROUND.

WHAT'S DIFFERENT NOW IS THAT TRANSGENDER PEOPLE ARE NOW MORE VISIBLE.

AND, OF COURSE, WE AT THE ACLU OF KENTUCKY, WE COMPLETELY OPPOSE ALL OF THE LEGISLATION, ESPECIALLY SENATE BILL 150.

AND ESPECIALLY THEY HEALTH CARE BAN IN SENATE BILL 150.

AND OUR LEGAL TEAM, WE'RE RESEARCHING CURRENTLY TO SEE HOW THIS BILL IS GOING TO AFFECT TRANS CHILDREN AND THEIR FAMILIES, AND THEY'RE EXPLORING WHAT THE BEST PATH FORWARD IS FOR LITIGATION, AND THAT MAY MEAN ONE LAWSUIT OR IT COULD MEAN SEVERAL.

>> WHY WOULD IT MEAN SEVERAL?

>> BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVERAL UNCONSTITUTIONAL PIECES TO SENATE BILL 150 AND THE PORTIONS THAT WERE ADDED ON LAST MINUTE.

AND WE AREN'T SURE WHEN, BUT THE ACLU WILL REMAIN COMMITTED TO TRANSGENDER FAMILIES AND ENSURING THAT TRANS YOUTH CAN ACCESS THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED.

>> SO IS THERE A PARTICULAR AGE BY WHICH MR. HARTMAN, YOU THINK THAT IT IS TOO YOUNG FOR A CHILD TO UNDERGO ANY TYPE OF GENDER-AFFIRMING THERAPIES, WHETHER THAT'S MEDICATIONS OR SURGERY?

>> WELL, WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT GENDER-AFFIRMING THERAPY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MEANT HEALTH CARE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COUNSELING.

I THINK THE MAJORITY PARTY I GO IN ORDER TO ONE OF THEIR OWN CAME BEFORE THE COMMITTEE TO TESTIFY, FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE JERRY MILLER WHO CAME TO SHARE THAT IT IS UNDENIABLE THAT HIS SEVEN-YEAR-OLD GRANDCHILD IS TRANSGENDER, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS APPARENT FROM AN INCREDIBLY EARLY AGE.

AND GEN THIS IS IN CONSULTATION.

YOU'RE WORKING NOT JUST WITH YOUR PUSHING BUT ALSO YOUR MENTAL HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS WHO ALL SUPPORT GENDER-AFFIRMING THERAPIES FORE TRANS YOUTH.

S THERE IS NO EARLIEST AGE TO KNOW WHEN A CHILD IS TRANS, BUT YOUR DOCTOR AND YOUR MENTAL HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS AND YOUR PARENTS WILL KNOW WHEN IT IS RIGHT FOR A CHILD TO BEGIN SOME TYPE OF GENDER-AFFIRMING THERAPIES WHICH COULD INCLUDE WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO, PUBERTY REGULATORS OR HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY.

>> SO WE'VE GOT LOTS OF FEEDBACK COMING IN THIS EVENING AND I'M GOING TO TRY TO SHORTEN SOME OF THESE COMMENTS.

THIS COMING FROM FRANKFORT.

THEY LIVE IN YOUR DISTRICT, SENATOR WILLIAMS.

THEY'RE A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE, HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL AND A PATIENT A TRANSGENDER CHILD.

IN THE INTERESTS OF PRESENTING MY CHILD, THIS PERSON SAYS, I'M EXERCISING MY PARENTAL RIGHTS BY ACTIVELY MAKING PLANS TO LEAVE KENTUCKY AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WHILE IT SADDENS US STOOD SO MY CHILD HAS BEEN SHOWN NOTHING BUT LOVE AND SUPPORT FROM HER FAMILY, FRIENDS AND COMMUNITY BUT WE WON'T LOSE ANY SLEEP OVER THE DECISION.

THE KENTUCKY GOP SEEMS DETERMINED, THEY SAY, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER TO ELIMINATE TRANS KIDS IN KENTUCKY.

SO ALLOW ME TO BE THE FIRST TO SAY CONGRATULATIONS.

CAN YOU RESPOND TO YOUR CONSTITUENT.

>> YES.

QUITE FRANKLY, THE CONSTITUENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF KENTUCKY, THIS IS THEIR POSITION.

IT'S NOT THE POSITION THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IT'S THE POSITION OF THES VAST MAJORITY OF OUR CONSTITUENTS.

NOW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT CONSTITUENTS LIKE HER THAT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION OF WHAT TO DO.

BUT WE CLEARLY BELIEVE THAT WE ARE ON THE SIDE OF OUR CONSTITUENTS.

AND THIS IS KENTUCKY VALUES.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE ESPOUSING.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS.

THAT'S WHAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON.

AND I'M SADDENED THAT SHE'S LEAVING KENTUCKY.

IT FEELS LIKE SHE HAS TO.

BUT WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE MAJORITY.

AND WE ALL ARE DOING THIS BECAUSE WE LOVE THESE CHILDREN.

WE LOVE HER CHILDREN.

WE WANT TO CARE FOR HER CHILD.

WE DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY KENTUCKY FACE A LIFETIME OF DRUGS TO FIGHT THEIR OWN BODY.

>> MR. MR. NELSON WE DID HEAR ON THE FLOOR FROM THE HOUSE COMMENTARY ABOUT THIS THAT PEOPLE, NOT JUST TRANSGENDER FOLKS, WILL LEAVE KENTUCKY BUT FOLKS HOR SYMPATHIZERS WITH THEIR CAUSE AND THEIR POSITION, SO THIS COULD CAUSE AN EXODUS OF SORTS FOR KENTUCKY.

ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT THIS COVET STATE?

>> I REALLY DON'T THINK THERE'S AN ECONOMIC IMPACT.

I THINK THE GREATER CONCERN SHOULD BE PLACED ON VULNERABLE CHILDREN WHO ARE SUFFERING FROM WHAT WAS ONCE CONSIDERED A MENTAL ILLNESS.

WHEN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY COOPERATES WITH MENTAL ILLNESS INSTEAD OF ADVOCATING FOR VULNERABLE CHILDREN, AGAIN, WE DID NOT ALLOW CHILDREN TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES, SO, RENEE, WHEN THERE IS ANOREXIA, FOR EXAMPLE, THE PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING COMMUNITY HELPS THE YOUNG PERSON OR THE PERSON SUFFERING FROM ANOREXIA TO ACCEPT THE CONDITION OF THEIR BODY.

THEY DON'T GO ALONG AND ENCOURAGE THEM AND SAY THAT THEY'RE OVERWEIGHT.

THEY DON'T SAY YOU NEED TO GO ON A DIET.

THAT IS NOT HELPING THE PERSON.

THERE ARE OTHER MENTAL CONDITIONS WHERE IT'S IMPORTANT FOR COUNSELORS TO ADVOCATE FOR THEM TO HELP THE PERSON SUFFERING TO SEE THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER, AND THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IN GENDER DYSPHORIA IS THAT THERE IS AN INSISTSY -- INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN THE MENTAL STATE AND THE BIOLOGICAL REALITY.

>> SO YOU'RE CALLING AT A MENTAL ILLNESS.

>> WELL, AND THAT'S WHAT THE AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION WAS CALLED IT UNTIL REASONABLE.

THAT WAS IN THE DSM-5 UNTIL 2013 I BELIEVE IT WAS WHEN THEY DOWNGRADED IT.

THERE'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE, RENEE, AND I'M TRYING TO THINK OF THE TERM.

IT'S A BODY DISASSOCIATIVE SYNDROME, I BELIEVE.

IT'S WHERE SOMEBODY BELIEVES THEY HAVE A HEALTHY BODY PART THAT SHOULD NOT BE ON THEIR BODY WHETHER IT'S A HAND OR A FOOT OR A FINGER, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY A CONDITION, AND NO DOCTOR WOULD SAY, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO AMPUTATE.

NO DOCTOR SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE MEDICINE TO SAY THAT.

AND YET WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS WHEN IT COMES TO GENDER DYSPHORIA.

WE HEARD TWO TESTIMONIES IN A SENATE COMMITTEE WHERE E. THERE WERE YOUNG GIRLS THAT HAD TOP SURGERY AND THEY'RE SUFFERING FROM IT TODAY.

>> AND WE'LL HEAR FROM LUKA HAN ON THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.

I DOUGH WANT TO GO TO YOU, MR. HARTMAN.

>> FIRST IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME THAT RICHARD IS STUCK A DECADE BEHIND THE LESS OF US.

YOU CAN STAY THERE FOR ALL I CARE.

WE'D LOVE TO YOU COME FORWARD AT SOME POINT IN TIME.

THIS IS NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS.

THIS IS A REALITY FOR FOLKS.

AND I REALLY WANT TO QUICKLY SAY THAT SENATOR WILLIAMS HAS TOLD ANOTHER LIE TONIGHT.

THIS IS NOT THE OPINION OF THE MAJORITY OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS OR THE REST OF THE STATE.

THERE'S ONLY BEEN ONE POLL THAT'S BEEN DONE ON SENATE BILL, 50 OR THE PROVISIONS OF WITHIN.

IT WAS DONE BY MASON DIXON POLLING, AND THAT IS A 71-70 -- HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO HEAR THIS NUMBER -- 71% OF KENTUCKY VOTERS OPPOSE TO STATE GOVERNMENT OVERRULING PARENTS' RIGHTS TO OBTAIN TREATMENT FOR THEIR TRANSGENDER CHILDREN.

SHOW ME A BETTER NUMBER.

SHOW ME A DIFFERENT NUMBER.

DID YOU DO A POLL?

>> DAVID MEADE SHARED A POLL.

IT SAID THIS -- >> A NATIONWIDE POLL, NOT A KENTUCKY POLL.

>> TO PROVIDE A HYPER WITH PRESCRIPTIONS FOR SURGERY TO AFFIRM THEIR CHOSEN GENDER, 66% OF KENTUCKIANS SAID IT SHOULD BE.

PARENTS SHOULD NOTE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT.

90% OF REPUBLICANS SAID IT SHOULD BE.

64% OF INDEPENDENTS.

57% OF MODERATE DEMOCRATS.

>> AND, QUITE FRANKLY, I WISH WE WOULD GO BACK A DECADE OR TWO WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE THE THE SUICIDE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE TODAY BECAUSE WE'RE TREATING SOME UNDERLYING PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS, BUT NOW WE HAVE A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY TO TREAT WITH DRUGS AND WITH SURGERY THAT HAS GROWN AS A SUICIDE RATES HAVE GROWN.

LET'S GO BACK TO TREATING IT WITH COUNSELING AS A MENTAL ILLNESS AND LET KIDS GET PASSED IT.

IF YOU DON'T GET BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM IT.

>> 17-YEAR-OLD JERRY MILLER, WE SHOULD BE COMPASSIONATE BUT DO YOU THINK HE SHOULD BE ON HORMONE THERAPY?

THAT'S NOT THE AGE SOMEONE STARTS HORMONE THERAPY.

YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

AGAIN, IN CONSULTATION WITH THEIR PHYSICIAN RIGHT AROUND THE TIME PUBERTY IS GETTING READY TO HIT IS WHEN YOU GO TO PUBERTY REGULATORS AND YOU DON'T START HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY UNTIL LATE TEENS.

THAT IS THE TYPICAL TREATMENT.

ONCE AGAIN, THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE THEY JUST WANT TO SCORE CHEAP POLITICAL POINTS, AND THAT'S ALL THIS IS AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE SCORN CHEAP POLITICAL POINTS ON THE LIVES OF CHILDREN.

SENATOR, YOUR VOTE IS GOING TO KILL KENTUCKY KIDS AND YOU COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT IT.

>> AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING IT BECAUSE YOU'RE KILLING THEM ALREADY.

>> UNBELIEVABLE.

>> SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BREAK RIGHT HERE AND WE'RE GOING TO SHARE WITH YOU A CONVERSATION THAT I HAD WITH JENNIFER BIRD POLLAN WHO IS A LEXINGTON MOTHER WHO HAS A TRANSGENDER CHILD NAMED WICK AND SHE TALKED TO US ABOUT HER FEARS ABOUT SENATE BILL 150 THAT SHE FEARS WILL HAVE UNTOLD HARM CONSEQUENCES ON CHILDREN LIKE HER CHILD.

LISTEN.

>> AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, A LOT OF THE RHETORIC AROUND THESE BILLS HAS BEEN ABOUT PARENTS' RIGHTS, AND I JUST FIND THAT SO OFFENSIVE AS A PARENT OF SOMEONE WHO FULL ENDORSES AND EMBRACES MY KID AND THE CHOICES THAT THEY'RE MAKING THAT REALLY WHAT'S JUST HAPPENED WITH THIS LEGISLATION IS MY KID'S SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO RESPECT MY RIGHTS WITH RESPECT TO THE PRONOUNS MY KID USES OR THE BATHROOM THEY WANT TO USE AND I'M NOT ALONE IN THIS.

A LOT OF PARENTS FEEL THAT OUR VULNERABLE CHILDREN ARE THE ONES WHO ARE TARGETED, AND WE AS PARENTS HAVE HAD RIGHTS TAKEN AWAY FROM US TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN IN THE WAY THAT WE SEE FIT.

>> CAN YOU TALK TO US ABOUT WICK'S JOURNEY AND WHEN THEY EXPRESSED TO YOU THAT THIS IS HOW THEY IDENTIFIED AND HOPED YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND?

FOR PARENTS WHO WONDER, LIKE I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS, WERE YOU EVER THERE?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

SO THIS WAS AN EVOLUTION OF WICK'S THINKING ABOUT THINGS BETWEEN MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL, AND IT CAME TO US AND SAID THIS WAS A CHANGE THEY WANTED TO MAKE ABOUT THEIR OUTWARD PRESENTATION.

I WILL ALSO SAY FOR MY PARENTS AND MY BAND'S PARENTS IT'S BEEN HARD BUT THEY RECOGNIZE THAT THE MOST -- YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOUR KID.

I MEAN, I WAS SO MOVED BY REPRESENTATIVE MILLER'S TESTIMONY ABOUT HIS OWN EXPERIENCE AS A GRANDPARENT.

IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS ALWAYS TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR KIDS' LIVES.

THE REALITY IS THAT TIMES CHANGE.

THINGS ARE DIFFERENT THAN WHEN WE WERE IN SCHOOL.

IT FEELS LIKE MY PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY TO SUPPORT MY KID IN THEIR DECISION.

SO ABSOLUTELY WHEN IT FIRST HAPPENED WE MADE MISTAKES WITH PRONOUNS AND NAMES.

WOULD I SAY THAT STILL HAPPENS IN OUR OWN HOUSE BUT WITH OTHER PEOPLE TALKING TO US ABOUT OUR KID.

BUT THIS YEAR WE ALSO GOT CHRISTMAS CARDS THAT WERE ADDRESS TODAY ALL OF OUR FAMILY MEMBERS BY NAME INCLUDING WICK BY NAME, AND THAT MEANS A LOT WHEN YOUR COMMUNITY AND FAMILY EMBRACE THE EXPERIENCES OF YOUR KID.

I THINK IT'S A REAL SHOWING OF SUPPORT, AND WE HAVE HAD THAT IN LEXINGTON AND WITH YOUR FAMILY, WITH OUR FRIENDS.

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT YOU AND WICK, YOU KNOW, YOU FOUND THAT COMMUNITY THROUGH THE SCHOOL, THROUGH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, THROUGH THE SCHOOL -- THE EDUCATORS THERE WHERE THEY WERE EMBRACING, BUT WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE PLACES WHERE KIDS, THIS CAN HAVE PERHAPS A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT ON HOW THEY VIEW THEMSELVES AND WILL IDENTIFY THEMSELVES OR -- AND EVEN THEIR VALUE OR THEIR WORTH.

>> HEATER.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THE BEST DECISION-MAKERS AND THE BEST PROVIDERS OF SUPPORT ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CLOSE TO CHILDREN, NOT PEOPLE IN FRANKFORT WHO BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON.

HOW MANY OF THEM YESTERDAY SAID, HOW MANY OF THEM IN THE SESSION SAID THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

AND THEN THEY VOTED FOR A BILL -- VOTED FOR A BILL THAT HARMS CHILDREN, THAT THE MEDICAL ASSOCIATION SAYS HARMS CHILDREN, THAT THE CHILDREN AND PARENTS AND FAMILIES SAID WOULD HARM THEM, AND THEY VOTED FOR IT ANYWAY.

IT'S SO DISHEARTENING.

THE IDEA THAT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, RUNNING RAMPANT ACROSS THE STATE SUCH THAT WE NEED LEGISLATION TO PREVENT IT, IT'S JUST -- IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

AND SO FOR THE KIDS FOR WHOMS THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE, THE FACT THAT NOW THEY CAN'T GET THAT FROM A DOCTOR WHO THEY KNOW AND TRUST, WHO THEY'VE BEEN WITH FOR YEARS AND NOW MAYBE TO THE EXTENT THEIR PARENTS CAN PROVIDE THIS FOR THEM, THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE THE STATE TO GET TREATMENT, SEE A NEW DOCTOR, MAYBE HAVE TO DO IT AWAY FROM HOME, THAT'S, AGAIN, IT'S NOT LETTING THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW BEST WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS KID MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

>> Renee: SO WE APPRECIATE THE INTEREST IN TONIGHT'S TOPIC AND THANK YOU ALL WHO HAVE TWEETED OR eMAILED OR TEXTED US.

AND WE'LL TRY TO GET TO MANY OF YOUR RESPONSES AS POSSIBLE ON TWITTER.

WE HAVE BONNIE HUGHES HUBER SAY, NO CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 18 SHOULD BE ALLOWED ANY TYPE OF GENDER SURGERY OR MEDICATIONS.

IT IS OUR DUTY AS PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS AND AUNTS AND UNCLES TO BE STRONG AND TO PROVIDE CONSULTATION AND TO UNDERSTAND.

THIS HAS GOTTEN WAY TOO FAR OUT OF HAND.

BEFORE WE GET MORE COMMENTARY, I DO WANT TO BRING UP THAT THERE WAS A STATEMENT RELEASED BY THE KENTUCKY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION ABOUT SENATE BILL 150 THAT THEY SAY THEY REMAIN EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC, SUCH AS LIMITATIONS ON SAFE MEDICATIONS, THAT CAN BE USED TO TREAT GENDER DYSPHORIA.

KMA SUPPORTS THE EVIDENCE-BASED STANDARDS OF CARE FOR THE TREATMENT OF GENDER DYSPHORIA INCLUDING NON-IMAGERY SURGICAL TREATMENT.

SUCH STANDARDS FOR APPROPRIATE CARE HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED AND RECOGNIZED BY THE NATION'S LEADING HEALTH CARE ORGANIZATIONS AND HAVE PROVEN EFFECTIVE.

AS SUCH, THE ASSOCIATION KMA REMAINS OPPOSED TO THE LEGISLATION.

ARE YOU NOT RUNNING AFOUL OF WHAT THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY AND YOUR ON STATE IS SAYING WHAT SENATE BILL 150.

>> I WILL SAY MY BROTHER-IN-LAW IS A DOCTOR, AND SENATOR DON DOUGLAS ASK A DOCTOR AND THEY BOTH SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION.

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PHYSICIANS THAT SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION.

THE KMA POLITICAL ARM, I AGREE WITH THEM ON SOME THINGS.

I DISAGREE WITH THEM ON OTHER THINGS.

BUT I AM FOLLOWING DOCTORS THAT I TRUST, THAT ARE PHYSICIANS, THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE CHILDREN.

AND I'D LOVE TO HAVE DR. DOUGLAS ON HERE.

YOU WOULD HAVE A GREAT DISCUSSION BECAUSE HE DID A GREAT JOB A EDUCATING OUR CAUCUS ON MANY OF THESE ISSUES AND WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND WHAT'S A MYTH AND WHAT'S MEDICALLY SOUND.

SO I'M WITH THE PHYSICIANS THAT I KNOW AND TRUST.

>> MS. MCGRANAHAN, ANYTHING YOU CARE TO ADD AT THIS PARTICULAR JUNCTURE?

>> I WANT TO ADD FOR SURE THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST TRAUMATIC LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS THAT I'VE BEEN A PART OF.

EACH COMMITTEE THAT ONE OF THESE BILLS PASSES OUT OF, YOU SEE COUNTLESS PARENTS IN THE HALLWAYS, IN THE COMMITTEE ROOMS SCREAMING AND CRYING AND PLEADING FOR LEGISLATORS TO LISTEN TO THEIR CONCERNS FOR THEIR CHILDREN, SO WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS HOW THESE PARENTS CAN BE IGNORED.

>> WELL, A QUESTION THAT HAS COME IN FROM A VIEWER, WILL THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY PROVIDE MORE COUNSELING FOR CHILDREN WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH THESE REAL ISSUES?

SO HAS THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY ADEQUATELY FUNDED MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES FOR KENTUCKY'S YOUTH?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SENATOR CARROLL WHO IS ON THE FAMILIES AND CHILDREN SAID THAT THIS, ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID THE BILL DID DO THAT WE PASSED, THE SOUTH DAKOTA BILL THAT HAS BEEN PASSED AND IN SEVERAL OTHER STATES, HE SAID IT DID ALLOW FOR ADDITIONAL COUNSELING.

OKAY?

HE STILL VOTED AGAINST IT.

HE WAS THE ONE REPUBLICAN WHO VOTED AGAINST IT BUT HE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE BILL DOES ALLOW FOR MORE COUNSELING THAN IT DID BEFORE, AND WE NEED COUNSELING, NOT GENDER CONFUSING COUNSELING, BUT COUNSELING FOR CHILDREN.

THE FUNDING, IF THERE'S A NEED FOR IT, THAT'S WHAT OUR NEXT BUDGET SESSION WILL BE THERE FOR.

>> ARE YOU COMMITTED TO THAT?

>> I'M -- >> COMMITTED TO THE FUNDING FOR MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES FOR CHILDREN WHO MAY HAVE, AS WOULD YOU CALL IT, GENDER CONFUSING IDENTITIES.

>> WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT IT.

I BELIEVE ALREADY THROUGH OUR INSURANCE AND THROUGH OUR MEDICAID, FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T, WE HAVE FUNDING FOR THIS.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO FUND GENDER-CONFUSING THERAPY.

I WANT TO AFFIRM THERAPY THAT WILL GIVE THEM THE UNDERLYING MEDICAL HELP THEY NEED AND COUNSELING THEY NEED TO GET PAST THIS CONFUSING THAT'S HAPPENING.

>> MR. RICHARD NELSON, A COMMENT, IT'S INTERESTING THAT HERE FROM A VIEWER, THAT HERE YOUTH ARE TOO YOUNG TO CONSENT BUT NOT WITH PREGNANCY, THAT FOREVER CHANGES ONE'S BODY.

IT SEEMS HIPPO CRITICAL.

>> I THINK WHEN WE TALKING ABOUT I'M DIGNITY AND BODILY INTEGGERY WE PROTECT LIFE.

THAT'S THE PRINCIPLE THAT YOU WORK FROM, WHETHER THAT'S LIFE IN THE WOMB ORE TWO-YEAR-OLD CHILDREN AS SENATOR BERG TESTIFIED IN COMMITTEE THAT SHE THOUGHT HER TWO-YEAR-OLD AS GENDER DISFORIC OR JERRY MIL AREA SEVEN-YEAR-OLD.

WE SUPPORT LIFE.

WE GET BEHIND THOSE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH LIFE BUT WE DO NOT ALLOW CHILDREN WHO MAKE LIFE-IMPACTING DECISIONS THAT THEY CANNOT FULLY APPRECIATE.

A SEVEN-YEAR-OLD OR A 12-YEAR-OLD OR A 15-YEAR-OLD CANNOT CONSENT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND TO HORMONE THERAPY OR PUBERTY BLOCKERS OR TRANSITION SURGERIES, AND I THINK THAT THOSE ON THIS SIDE, AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THIS, MOST PARENTS UNDERSTAND THERE ARE LIMITS TO WHAT CHILDREN CAN DECIDE, BUT THERE'S ALSO LIMITS TO WHAT PARENTS CAN DECIDE TOO.

THIS IS ABOUT BODILY INTEGRITY.

IT'S ABOUT STANDING IN THE GAP FOR CHILDREN WHO DON'T HAVE ANYBODY TO STAND IN THE GAP FOR THEM.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONVINCED THAT THIS IS THE RIGHT THING FOR CHILDREN, AND I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S WRONG, AND THAT'S WHAT WE HEARD AGAIN BY SEVERAL OF THE TESTIMONIES.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, RENEE.

THERE ARE LAWSUITS AGAINST GENDER TRANSITION CLINICS FROM YOUNG PEOPLE.

IT WAS JUST IN THE NEWS YESTERDAY OR THE DAY BEFORE WHERE THERE'S A LAWSUIT AGAINST AGAINST -- I'M TRYING TO SEE WHERE IT IS.

ONE OF THE BIG HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS.

BUT IT'S THERE.

BUT WE'RE SEEING THIS AND WE'RE SEEING, CHRIS, A ROLLBACK IN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, IN SWEDEN, IN NORWAY AND 234 GREAT BRITON.

THE TAVISTOCK CENTER IS ROLLING BACK THEIR GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE.

IN FACT THERE WAS A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT THAT IS UNDERWAY AGAINST THEM BECAUSE THE HIGH COURT IN GREAT BRITAIN FOUND ON BEHALF OF A MINOR CHILD WHO PURSUED GENDER TRANSITION AND THEY FOUND THE STAPH STOCK CENTER.

>> WE DON'T HAVE ANY DOCTORS FROM KENTUCKY COMING TO TESTIFY AGAINST -- OR FOR THIS STUFF.

ALL THEY'RE DOING IS IGNORING EVERY COMPETENT MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL AND PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT ARE ALL UNITED ON THIS FRONT.

YOU KNOW, RICHARD WILL PROTECT YOUR LIFE AS LONG AS IT'S UNBORN BUT AFTER THAT YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN.

YOU HAD ONE PHYSICIAN TESTIFY.

I HAD A LINE OF PHYSICIANS OUT THE DOOR, SENATOR.

WAS THAT PHYSICIAN FROM KENTUCKY?

>> DR. DOUGLAS.

>> IS HE A MEMBER OF THE KENTUCKY-- >> MY BROTHER-IN-LAW.

I COUNSELED WITH HIM.

A NUMBER OF OTHER PHYSICIANS THAT ARE KENTUCKY TEXANS.

>> FROM LINCOLN COUNTY WE HEAR THIS, THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WANTED TO PROTECT CHILDREN WERE NOT UTILIZE RESOURCES AND TIME TO COME UP WITH A PLAN FORT FOSTER SYSTEM WE HAVE.

WE HAVE CHILDREN STAYING IN STATE OFFICES DUE TO NOT HAVING ENOUGH PLACEMENT OPTIONS, ESPECIALLY IN OUR BIGGIER CITIES.

FRANKFORT JUST DOES NOT GET IT.

AND THEN THERE'S THIS QUESTION FROM HARDIN COUNTY.

WILL SB 150 BAN COLLEGE AP COURSES AND RISK AP CERTIFICATION OR DUAL CREDIT, LORIS COURSES LIKE PSYCHOLOGICAL AND ANATOMY BRIEFLY DEAL WITH GENDER AS A SOCIAL CONCEPT, HUMAN DEVELOPMENT AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

THIS IS A QUESTION FOR YOU, SENATOR WILLIAMS.

DOES THIS AFFECT COLLEGE PLACEMENT?

>> I BELIEVE SO.

>> IT DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT AT ALL.

>> THIS HAS TO DO WITH CHILDREN AND PRIMARILY OBJECT 16TY, CHILDREN AND SEXUALLY INAPPROPRIATE MATERIALS.

NOT COLLEGE COURSES.

>> WHY WOULD HE KNOW?

THE BILL WAS RAMMED THROUGH IN THE FINAL HOURS OF THE LAST DAY.

NOBODY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ IT.

AND SO AT THE END OF THE DAY EVEN THE MAJORITY DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE BILL ACTUALLY DOES AT THE END OF THE DAY, BUT WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO IS MARGINALIZE TRANS KIDS, TAKE RIGHTS AWAY FROM TRANS KIDS, PARENTS, AND IT'S GOING TO UNFORTUNATELY KILL TRANS KIDS.

>> THERE'S NO OBSCENITY CLAUSE IN THIS BILL.

>> I WANTED TO GO TO SENATE BILL 5 IS ABOUT OBSCENE MATERIALS OR OBJECTIONABLE MATERIALS BUT THAT IS NOT PART OF SENATE BILL 150 ALTHOUGH THAT CAN BE A PART OF THE DISCUSSION.

>> IT IS PART OF THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE -- >> WOULD YOU CONSIDER OBSCENITY TO BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION IN WHICH SECTION OF THE BILL.

>> RYE, IN SEXUAL CONFUSION BECAUSE OF THE OBSCENITY AT THE VERY YOUNG AGES THE BECOMING CONFUSEDDERS AND THERE ARE MANY MATERIALS SHA THAT SHOULD NOT BE PRESENTED TO K THROUGH 4, 5 CHILDREN.

>> MR. NELSON, WAS THE REGRET PRATE FOR GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE.

>> >> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

ACCORDING TO PAUL McCUE THEY OF CHIEF SKY AT ANY RATE JOHNS HOPKINS WHICH THEY USED TO DO GENDER TRANSITION SURGERIES, THEY FOUND WHAT IS NOT HELPING THE PARENTS IN THE LONG RUN.

SOMEWHERE UPWARDS OF 80% OF CHILDREN SUFFERING FROM GENDER DYSPHORIA ACCEPT THEIR BIOLOGICAL REALITY INTO ADULTHOOD, MID-20s, UPPER 20s.

SO WHY WOULD WE WANT TO IMPOSE HORMONE REGIMEN ON THEM, PUBERTY BLOCK ORES RADICAL SURGERIES ON THEM WHEN THEIR MINDS EVENTUALLY LINE UP WITH THEIR BIOLOGICAL REALITY.

>> AND SO TO THAT POINT, LUCCA HEIN WHO WE TALKED TO TODAY BY SKYPE, SHE IS NOT A KENTUCKIAN.

SHE TALKED TO US FROM A HOTEL IN NEBRASKA.

BUT SHE'S TESTIFIED QUITE A BIT ON SENATE BILL 150 AND THE BILL 470, HOUSE BILL 470 THAT IS SIMILAR, SHE WAS BORN A FEMALE AND SHE SAYS HE WAS TOO YOUNG AND SUFFERED MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, AND AT THE IMAGE A 16 SHE HAD A DOUBLING MASTECTOMY.

HERE'SER MANUFACTURE OUR CONVERSATION.

>> YOU KNOW, I WAS A YOUNG TEENAGER WHO HAD A HISTORY OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, A ROUGH HOME LIFE AT THE TIME, AND I HAD ALSO BEEN HEAVILY, HEAVILY PREYED UPON AND SEXUALLY SOLICITED ONLINE OAT POINT THAT THE AUTHORITIES GOT INVOLVED, AND I SORT OF SPIRALED INTO THIS HATRED OF MYSELF AND MY BODY TO THE POINT THAT I FOUND THESE ONLINE SPACES THAT REALLY TOLD ME, OH, YOU DON'T HATE YOUR CHEST BECAUSE YOU'RE UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE IT'S A NORMAL TEENAGE THING OR BECAUSE YOU HAVE TRAUMA AROUND IT.

IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A BOY IN THE WRONG BODY.

AND OBVIOUSLY AS SOMEONE WHO WAS YOUNG AND VULNERABLE AND REALLY JUST TRYING TO FIND ANYTHING TO GRASP ONTO AT THE TIME, THAT FIT, AND I TRULY BELIEVED THAT.

AND AS A RESULT, YOU KNOW, I TOLD SOME MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS AT THE TIME, WE NEED TO TELL YOUR PARENTS SO THEY CAN GET YOU THE HELP THAT YOU NEED, AND THE ISSUE IS THAT THEY ONLY AFFIRMED THIS, NO ONE QUESTIONED WHY, YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN AS A TEENAGER THESE FEELINGS POPPED UP.

THEY ONLY AFFIRMED IT.

THEY KIND OF BULLIED MY PARENTS AND SCARED THEM, YOU KNOW, WITH THE LINE OF, DO YOU WANT A DEAD DAUGHTER OR A LIVING SON?

WHICH IS NOT WHAT A DOCTOR SHOULD SAY 37 THAT'S THE LINE OF AN ACTIVIST.

IT'S ALSO BLATANTLY NOTE TRUE.

FROM THERE I WENT DOWN TO THE MEDICAL PATH THAT WAS REALLY THE ONLY OPTION WE WERE PRESENTED, AND MY VERY FIRST MEDICAL INTERVENTION I WAS DOUBLE MASTECTOMY AT 16.

THEN A FEW MONTHS LATER I WAS PUT ON PROCESSED HORMONES WHICH WAS TESTOSTERONE, AND I TOOK THAT FOR FOUR YEARS UNTIL I REALLY GREW UP AND I STARTED GETTING THINGS TOGETHER AND REALLY THINKING ABOUT WHAT I WANT FOR MY LIFE AND REALIZING THAT I DEFINITELY WAS NOT IN A PLACE WHERE I COULD CONSENT TO THAT.

I COULDN'T CONSENT TO THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS.

I COULDN'T CONSENT TO BEING A MEDICAL PATIENT FOR REST OF MY LIFE IN THIS WAY, NOT TO MENTION THE PHYSICAL DAMAGE, STUFF LIKE TESTOSTERONE HAS DONE TO ME WHERE I HAVE JOINT MAIN, MY VOCAL CLOSED ACHE.

I HAVE WATCHES ALL OF MY MUSCLE MAGS WASTE AWAY.

I'VE WATCHED PART OF MY BODY ATROPHY AWAY.

I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL EVER BE ABLE TO CARRY A CHILD.

ALL THIS STUFF THAT THEY LOOKED ME IN THE EYES AT 16 AND TOLD ME THIS WAS CARE, AND, YOU KNOW, I'M TO THE POINT WHERE I GREW UP A LITTLE BIT AND I CURRENT FEELTENTIALY ABANDONED BY THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS THAT DID THIS.

>> HOW OLD ARE YOU NOW, LUKA?

>> I'M NOW 21.

>> SO YOU'VE HAD -- SO YOUR FIRST -- THE FIRST MEDICAL SERVICE THAT YOU WERE PROVIDED, WAS THAT BEFORE 16 OR AT 16?

>> AT 16.

>> AT 16.

AND MASS CONNECT ME, WAS THAT YOUR CHOICE?

MASTECTOMY?

YOU FEEL YOU WERE FORCED UPON TO MAKE THAT DECISION?

>> I FEEL LIKE I WAS A MENTALLY ILL TEENAGER THAT HATED MY CHEST WHO WAS BINDING MY CHEST EVERY DAY TO THE POINT I HAD RIB AND SPINE DAMAGE, AND I WAS SEEN AS THIS KIND OF MAGICAL, LIKE IT WILL FIX YOUR PROBLEMS THING.

THAT IS HOW THE TRANS COMMUNITY PRESENTED IT TO ME.

THAT'S HOW THEY PRESENT TO IT A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE, IS THAT THIS WILL CURE YOUR DYSPHORIA.

YOU KNOW, WHERE I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE.

WE'RE HERE HAVING A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.

A DOCTOR WILL RECOMMEND YOU CHOP OFF BODY PARTS.

>> SO CHRIS HARTMAN, I WANT TO GO YOU TO RESPOND TO HER EXPERIENCE.

>> LUKA'S TALE IS TRAGIC, IT'S TRUE, AND EVERY PHYSICIAN THAT I'VE SPOKEN WITH HAS SAID THAT SHE DID NOT RECEIVE THE STANDARD OF CARE THAT IS THE STANDARD OF CARE FROM ALL OF THE MAJOR MEDICAL ASSOCIATIONS.

AND SHE'S NOT A KENTUCKIAN, WHICH I HAVE CONTINUED TO DRIVE HOME.

THE FOLKS THAT WE HAVE BROUGHT TO TESTIFY IN OPPOSITION TO THESE BILLS ARE KENTUCKIANS WHO ARE BEGGING FOR LIFE-SAVING MEDICALLY SUPPORTED EVER SUPPORTIVE TREATMENT, AND WHAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS DONE IS BUT DOCTORS IN KENTUCKY IN AN IMPOSSIBLE POSITION WHERE THEY EITHER HAVE TO VIOLATE THEIR STANDARDS OF CARE AND THEIR MEDICAL ETHICS OR THEY HAVE TO VIOLATE THIS UNJUST LAW AND LOSE THEIR MEDICAL LICENSE IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY.

>> SO I DO WANT TO JUST CLARIFY THAT POINT IN THE BILL, THAT ARE THERE ARE PUNITIVE ACTIONS AGAINST DOCTORS WHO PERFORM THESE SURGERIES OR ADMINISTER THERAPIES.

>> CERTAINLY, IF THEY DO THAT BUT I WANT TO SAY SHE ALSO TESTIFIED THAT SHE DIDN'T FEEL COMPLETELY SAFE COMING BACK TO KENTUCKY.

DO YOU KNOW WHY?

SHE SAID THAT?

>> TELL ME WHY, SENATOR.

DO YOU KNOW WHY?

>> I DON'T.

>> BECAUSE SHE WAS ASSAULTED.

OKAY.

BY A MEMBER OF YOUR COMMUNITY WHO WAS IN POWER, AND SHE FELT SHE WAS ACCOSTED AND COULD NOT COME BACK HERE.

>> THIS IS AN ACCUSATION THAT HASN'T COME OUT UNTIL NOW.

>> THIS IS ALSO WHY A NUMBER OF MEMBERS IN KENTUCKY WON'T TESTIFY, BECAUSE THEY FEEL THEY WILL BE -- THERE WILL BE RETRIBUTION EITHER FIRING FROM THEIR JOBS OR CRITICISM WITHIN KENTUCKY OF THIS, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAD PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE OF KENTUCKY, BECAUSE PEOPLE -- >> SOWED KENTUCKIANS, MINORS WHO ARE KENTUCKIANS WHO HAVE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE THAT ARE DETRANSITIONING.

YOU KNOW OF THOSE PEOPLE.

>> RENEE -- >> YES OR NO, DO YOU KNOW OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE KENTUCKIANS WHO ARE DETRANSITIONING.

>> YES.

THE FIRST IS JENNET COOPER WHO DIRECT PARTNERS FOR ETHICAL CARE.

SHE TESTIFIED SHE HAS A NUMBER PARENTS IN HER GROUP WHOSE CHILDREN TRANSITIONED.

THEY WERE AFRAID TO COME AND TESTIFY PUBLICALLY ABOUT THEIR STORY BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID OF BEING BULLIED OR HARASSED AND THEY'RE ALREADY DEALING WITH A LOT OF PAIN.

THE OTHER THING, TOO, THAT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION THE JENNIFER DECKER THE SPONSOR OF HOUSE BILL 470 TESTIFIED THERE WERE NOSE IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY IN FRANKFORT THAT WOULD HAVE TESTIFIED IN FAVOR OF HOUSE BILL 470 BUT THEY WERE AFRAID TO DO SO BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS.

SHE TESTIFIED UNDER OATH.

>> YOU'RE MISTANK GO PASSION -- >> LET MIME FINISH.

>> RENEE, I WAS IN TWO OF THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS AND I'LL SAY THIS, THERE WAS A LOT OF PAIN, THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE DEEPLY HURT AND MOVED, BUT THERE WAS ALSO FEAR.

I WAS AFRAID FOR MYSELF, TOO, BASE WAS MINORITY IN ONE OF THESE COMMITTEES.

IT WAS HOSTILE.

THERE WERE PEOPLE BEHIND ME IN THE SENATE, FAMILIES AND CHILDREN COMMITTEE WHERE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT IN A OBSTRUCTING THE TESTIMONY, AND I SIMPLY TURNED AROUND A COUPLE TIMES AND ASKED THEM TO BE QUIET, AND IT WAS THREATENING TOWARDS ME, CHRIS.

THE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN DANNY CARROLL SAID, THIS SAYS NOT HELPING THEIR CAUSE.

HE WAS INTERRUPTED A NUMBER OF TIMES.

AND THERE WAS A THREATENING MOOD THAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED AND I THINK THAT IT'S -- IT'S BEEN SEEN ACROSS THE STATE.

>> SO I DON'T WANT TO DIVERT TOO MUCH FROM THE CONTENT OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TO THAT POINT, BUT WHEN THE BILL DID PASS THE SENATE, MR. HARTMAN, THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE GALLERY WHO SHOUTED OBSCENITIES AT SENATOR LINDSEY TISCHNER AND OTHERS AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE BEHAVIOR THAT IS DESERVING OF THE INSTITUTION AND OF THAT CHAMBER.

YOU WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, CORRECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATE.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CONTENT.

MS. MCGRANAHAN, WHEN YOU HEAR A STORY LIKE YOU HEARD FROM LUKA, HOW DOES THAT STRIKE YOU?

>> WHAT HAPPENED IS AWFUL, AND IT'S TRAGIC, AND -- BUT THESE ARE NOT STANDARDS OF CARE.

THE CARE THAT SHE GOT, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN KENTUCKY.

AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS FOR A FAMILY, IF YOU HAVE A TRANS CHILD THAT YOU ARE PERMITTED TO GO TO A DOCTOR AND RECEIVE HEALTH CARE, THAT'S ALL.

THAT'S ALL.

WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR MORE RIGHTS OR ADDITIONAL RIGHTS, JUST EQUAL RIGHTS AND PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW FOR ALL KENTUCKY FAMILIES.

>> SO I DO WANT TO ASK TO THE POINT THAT YOU'RE MAKING ABOUT PARENTAL DECISION, IF A PARENT CHOSE TO LEAVE KENTUCKY TO GET GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE FOR THEIR CHILD AND CAME -- AND RETURNED BACK TO KENTUCKY, WOULD THEY FACE ANY KIND OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES?

ANSWER THAT QUESTION FIRST.

>> WHAT I WILL SAY IS PRIOR TO THIS BILL A PHYSICIAN COULD HAVE DONE THAT TO LUKA AND NOT HAVE BEEN PENALIZED.

WITH THIS BILL, IF THEY DID IT IN KENTUCKY, THEY WILL BE PENALIZED.

WE ALL AGREED THAT WHAT WAS DONE TO HER SHOULD HAVE PENALTIES.

IT'S NOT MEDICAL CARE AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES.

AND IF THEY COME BACK TO KENTUCKY, THERE'S A DE-- IF THEY'RE ON DRUGS, THEY'RE GOING TO GET IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THERE'S NO PENALTY ON THE PARENTS OR ANYTHING ELSE.

IF THERE'S SURGERY, THERE'S SURGERY.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN KENTUCKY.

BUT THEY CAN'T CONTINUE TO PRESCRIBE CERTAIN DRUGS IN KENTUCKY WOULD IT, BUT THEY CAN SCALE BACK ON THEM IF THEY'RE GOING TO COME BACK AND LIVE HERE, AND THAT'S VERY BROAD WITHOUT BEING, SPECIFIC, THAT THEY NEED TO REDUCE THE USE OF THOSE DRUGS AS THEY DETRANSITION.

IF SOMEBODY JUST MOVES HERE, THEY CAN DETRANSITION OFF THE DRUGS.

THAT'S PART OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.

THAT'S IN THE BILL.

IT'S NOTE TAKEN CARE OF.

IT'S NOTE ILLEGAL TO COME BACK HERE AND BE DETRANSITIONING.

>> THANK YOU FORE CLARIFYING THAT.

THERE WERE EXCEPTIONS ON PAGE 8 OF THE BILL, AND IT TALKS ABOUT PROCEED HIGGINS OF THIS SUBSECTION SHALL NOT LIMIT OR RESTRICT THE PROVISIONS TO A MINOR WITH MEDICALLY VERIFIABLE DISORDER OF SECONDS DEVELOPMENT INCLUDING EXTERNAL BIOLOGICAL SECONDS CHARACTERISTICS THAT ARE IR RESOLVEBLY AMBIGUOUS.

>> ACTUALLY, I'VE GOT A GOOD FRIEND, ARE THERE GENETIC ANOMALIES THAT THIS BILL TAKE CARE OF.

THERE ARE GOOD REASONS FOR DOING THESE THINGS MEDICALLY BECAUSE IT CAN BE XXY, XYW, THERE'S A NUMBER OF DISORDERS, SMALL PERCENTAGES BUT STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE AND THEY CAN BE TAKEN CARE OF.

SOME BECOME WOMEN.

SOPH THEM BECOME MEN.

AND THERE'S DIFFERENT HORMONAL THINGS.

ALL THOSE TREATMENTS CAN OCCUR.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS VERY STRONG ON BECAUSE I HAD A GOOD FRIEND WHO HAS A LOVELY DAUGHTER, AND THEY RAISED HER AS A DAUGHTER.

SHE WILL NEVER HAVE KIDS, BUT THAT WAS THE WAY IT WENT.

SOME OF THOSE KIDS ARE RAISED AS MALES.

ACTUALLY MORE OF THEM ARE RAISED AS MALES THAN MALES, BUT DEPENDING UPON WHAT DISORDER, ACTUAL PHYSICAL DISORDER YOU HAVE, YOU CAN GET THE CARE FOR THAT.

>> YOU DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT.

>> ACTUALLY, DO I.

SENATOR WILLIAMS WILL APPROVE OF HAVING LIFE-ALTERING SURGERIES ON BABIES.

THE SABERI SEX COMMUNITIES FIND THIS INCREDIBLY PROBLEMATIC.

THE PREVAILING STANDARDS OF CARE FOR BABIES WHO ARE BORN INTERSEX IS NOT TO HAVE A MEDICAL INTERVENTION UNTIL THEY ARE OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE THEIR OWN.

>> I NEVER -- >> WHAT YOU DO YOU THINK THEY DO TO INTERSEX BABIES WHEN THEY ARE BORN?

YOU JUST ADVOCATED FOR IT.

>> DID I NOT.

>> HE SAID THIS IS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AT THE DIRECTIONS OF THE PARENTS AND THE CHILD INVOLVED.

>> .

RENEE, IF I COULD ADD SOMETHING, I THINK THERE'S BEEN AN ASSUMPTION THAT SURGICAL INTERVENTIONS ARE NOT HAPPENING IN KENTUCKY.

COORDINATED TO JENNET COOPER, AGAIN SHE TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF THE SENATE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES COMMITTEE, THAT THEY HAVE A PARENT WHO RECORDED A CALL WITH A CLINIC THAT OFFERED TO DO A DOUBLE MASTECTOMY ON HER 15-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER.

SHE SAID THAT UNDER TESTIMONY.

SHE'S OFFERED THAT TO THE LEGISLATORS THERE.

THERE IS A GENDER CLINICAL, A GENDER TRANSITION CLINIC IN BOWLING GREEN, JUST WAS IN THE NEWS RECENTLY THAT THEY OPENED UP.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S WHO THEY CALLED.

BUT THAT'S PROBLEMATIC THAT ANY CLINIC WOULD DO A DOUBLE MASTECTOMY ON A MINOR CHILD.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF, CHRIS?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT AND NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD TO TELL US THAT IT HAS HAPPENED AND THAT IS NOT WHAT WE'VE ADVOCATED FOR, RENEE, THIS ENTIRE SESSION.

WE SAID YOU CAN BAN SURGERIES UNDER THE AGE OF 18, BUT IF YOU TAKE AWAY PURELY REGULATORS AND HORMONE THERAPY, YOU'RE GOING TO DILL KILL KIDS.

>> THEY'RE ALREADY KILLING THEM.

>> DR. ANDREW VAN LAW SAID TRANSITION AFFIRMING MEDICAL INTERVENTION ACTUALLY IMPERILS RATHER THAN HELP ALREADY AT RISK GENDER DYSPHORIA YOUTH.

SUCH INTERVENTIONS ARE NOT PROVEN FECK, NOT PROVEN SAVE AND DO NOT STOP SUICIDE.

>> THIS CAME OUT WITHOUT A PERSON SAYING IT SHOWING THE ALTERNATE -- GENDER AFFIRMING SURGERY IS LESS THAN 1%.

>> THAT'S NEWS TO ME.

I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT.

>> DOES THAT LINE UP WITH WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND TO BE FACTUAL, MR. HARTMAN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE STORIES WE HAEFER FOLKS TO DETRANSITION DO IT FROM SOCIETAL PRESSURE, FROM BULLYING, HARASSMENT, AND DISCRIMINATION THEY FACE FOR BEING TRANS.

THOSE ARE TON STORIES WE EVER END UP HEARING.

LESS THAN 1%?

COMPLETELY CONSIST.

>> SENATOR WILLIAMS, DOES THIS BILL GO FAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?

AND WHAT ELSE COULD COME?

>> I THINK THIS BILL IS A GREAT BILL.

I BELIEVE THAT IT IS A SOUND BILL THAT CAN BE DEFENDALLED ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT.

I BELIEVE THE EMPHASIS IS ON PROTECTING CHILDREN.

THAT IS THE KEY, PROTECTING CHILDREN, GIVING THEIR PARENTS SOME RIGHTS FOR THE EDUCATION OF THE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS, BUT I DON'T SEE A COMPELLING REASON TO DO ANYTHING ELSE BEYOND THIS.

THIS IS GOOD.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT WORKS OUT.

IT'S FINE.

>> AND SO THIS, ALONG WE WILL WITH THE TEN MINUTES REMAINING, TALK ABOUT DID ABOUT SENATE BILL 5 THAT ADDRESSES WE HAVE CALLED IT OFTEN THE BOOK-BANNING BILL BUT IT ADDRESSES OBSCENE MATERIAL, PROGRAMMING ACTIVITIES AT SCHOOL THAT PARENTS MIGHT FIND OBJECTIONABLE.

TALK TO US ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

AND I WANT TO HEAR FROM THIS SIDE.

THERE THERE BE A LAWSUIT FILED ON THAT ONE?

>> IT'S DEALING WITH WHAT WE CLEARLY WOULD SAY IS OBSCENE, AND I THINK RICHARD HAS SOME EXAMPLES THAT YOU PROBABLY CAN'T SHOW ON THIS SHOW.

>> CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN THEM THAT THEM IN A G-RATED AUDIENCE WAY.

>> SO A GROUP PARENTS WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE BOOKS THAT WERE IN JEFFERSON COUNTY SCHOOLS.

THERE IT WAS A PETITION DRIVE.

THEY ASKED PARENTS TO COME IN FRONT OF THE SCHOOL BOARD.

AND THE PARENT -- SCHOOL BOARD.

AND THE PARENT 40 WANTED TO READ GENDERQUEER WAS TOLD SHE- COULDN'T DO IT.

ACTUALLY HAVE A -- I HAVE GOT AN EXCERPT FROM ONE OF THE BOOKS.

IF I HAD SHOWN THIS TO YOUR CAMERAS AND IF THIS WAS AIRED YOU'D GET AN FCC VIOLATION.

UNFORTUNATELY IN THE CASE OF JEFFERSON COUNTY SCHOOLS THEY DIDN'T LISTEN TO THE PARENTS, AND THAT WAS WHY THINK BILL CAME FORWARD BECAUSE PARENTS NEEDED RECOURSE TO GET OBSCENE PORNOGRAPHIC BOOKS OUT OF THEIR SCHOOLS, AND THAT'S WHAT SENATE BILL 5 DOES.

>> YOUR RESPONSE, MR. HARTMAN AND MS. GRAN HAN, TO THAT.

>> WELL, THIS IS ANOTHER MECHANISM TO FURTHER MARGINALIZED LGBTQ FOLKS.

AND THIS -- THESE TYPE OF BILLS, IT'S NOT A PARENT'S RIGHTS BILL.

IT ONLY SERVES ONE TYPE OF A PARENT.

AND THERE ARE ALREADY SYSTEMS IN PLACE FOR -- THERE ARE SITE BASED COUNCILS, THERE ARE SCHOOL BOARDS, AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS OVERBURR AND ALREADY OVERWORKED, UNDERPAID SCHOOL EMPLOYEES DURING A MASSIVE TEACHER SHORTAGE IN KENTUCKY, AND WHERE IS THE LINE?

WITNESS WE START DOING THIS, DO WE START BANNING IDEAS, BANNING OTHER THINGS THAT WE DON'T LIKE?

>> HAVE YOU LOOKED AT SOME OF THE PICTURES IN THESE BOOKS, KIDS HAVING SEX WITH KIDS AND WITH ADULTS.

VA GRAPHIC.

WHEN I WAGS DOING MY HOMEWORK FOR THIS SHOW, I WAS WONDERING WHAT IN THE HECK AM I DOING LOOKING AT THIS.

ARE THERE ANY THINGS THAT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

>> WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

>> DEFINITELY RIGHT HERE.

DEFINITELY KEEPING OBSCENITY AND PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL OUT.

AND I DRAW THE LINE WITH PARENTAL RIGHTS, TOO.

PARENTS SHOULD HAVE -- >> PARENTS SHOULD MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

I THINK THAT THERE'S A SITE-BASED COUNCIL THAT MAKES THOSE DECISIONS, A SCHOOL BOARD THAT'S MAKING THOUGH DECISIONS, AND I WENT TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

I WENT TO -- AND I TRUST MY KIDS WENT TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

I TRUST THE TEACHERS.

I TRUST THE SYSTEMS THAT ARE AT PLAY THERE.

>> THAT'S THE KEY.

WHEN PARENTS ARE SEEING THESE KIND OF MATERIALS, THAT TRUST HAS BEEN BREACHED, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING THE DECLINING ENROLLMENT IN SOME PUBLIC SCHOOLS, BECAUSE OF THE BREACH OF TRUST WITH THE PARENTS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

>> CAN YOU SPEAK AT TO MATERIAL THAT'S BEEN OBJECTIONABLE IN NCPS.

>> FOR PARENTS TO MAKE AN APPEAL, IT'S NOT, YOU PARENT, IT'S A PUBLIC APPEAL AND DISCUSSION.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ABOUT, HAVING A PUBLIC DISCUSSION.

BEFORE THESE THINGS WERE DONE IN PRIVATE AND THERE BEATENS AN APPEALS PROCESS FOR MOST OF THEM.

>> JUST LIKE JACKIE SAID, NAME FROM YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT DOESN'T HAVE A PROCESS TO GET OBJECTIONABLE MATERIALS OUT OF THE SCHOOL LIBRARY OR OUT OF THE SCHOOL CURRICULUM.

THEY EXIST ALL ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND JUST LIKE JACKIE SAID BE WITH NONE OF US UP HERE ARE EDUCATIONAL PROFESSIONALS.

NONE OF US HAVE A DEGREE IN LIBRARY SCIENCES.

I TRUST THE PROFESSIONALS, WHICH IS WHO THE JEFFERSON COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOL BOARD RELIED UPON.

THE FOLKS WHO ARE MAKING THOSE DECISIONS ARE WELL VERSED AND WELL-TRAINED IN WHAT IS AND IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR STUDENTS OF CERTAIN AGES.

>> GOING BACK TO SENATE BILL 150 THIS QUESTION FROM DONNIE WILKERSON, WE KNOW THE PENALTY FOR DOCTORS WHO VIOLATE THE BILL BUT WHAT IS THE PENALTY FOR TEACHERS WHO VIOLATE THE BILL?

BECAUSE PART OF SENATE BILL 150 TALKS ABOUT MATERIALS THAT NEED TO BE PRESENTED TO PARENTS WHEN IT COMES TO ASSUME SEXUALITY, ET CETERA.

SO IS THERE A PENALTY FOR TEACHERS?

OR ADMINISTRATORS?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

>> IF ANYTHING, RENEE, IT PROTECTS TEACHERS FROM BEING FORCED TO USE GENDER PRONOUNS OF STUDENTS AND KEEPING IT HIDDEN FROM PARENTS.

THERE IS A PUBLIC SCHOOL PROGRAM IN ANDERSON COUNTY THAT LEFT HIS JOB BECAUSE HE'S BEEN TOLD BY THE SUPERINTENDENT THAT HE HAD TO USE GENDER PREFERRED PRONOUNS OF THE STUDENT AND HE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO TELL THE PARENTS, AND HE COULD NOT IN GOOD CONSCIOUS CONTINUE TO BE THE PRINCIPAL THERE.

IT PROTECTS TEACHERS FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND PROTECTS THEIR INTEGRITY AS WELL IN THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO HIDE SOMETHING FROM THE PARENTS.

>> I DARE THEM TO TRY TO ENFORCE THIS, TO TRY TO ENFORCE REFUSING TO ALLOW TEACHERS TO TALK ABOUT GENDER IDENTITY, TO TALK SEXUAL ORIENTATION AT ALL GRADE LEVELS.

THE BILL SAYS AT ALL GRADE LEVELS.

YOU'RE TRYING TO DETERIORATE A CHILLING EFFECT TO ERASE LGBTQ EXISTENCE FROM BUBBLE SCHOOLS, I MEAN, FROM EVERY AREA OF SOCIETY, BUT FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS SPECIFICALLY.

>> ALL GRADE LEVEL WILL BE INCLUDED IN DISCUSSION.

>> NOW YOU'RE FOR PARENTS RIGHTS, SENATOR WILLIAMS.

IT'S A SITUATIONAL THING WITH YOU, ISN'T IT?

>> I'M FOR PARENTS BEING INVOLVED IN THEIR DISH.

>> BUT NOT WHEN IT COMES TO MEDICAL CARE FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

>> WHEN I LOOK AT PAGE,, SUBSECTION D IT'S LINES 10 THROUGH 14, ANY CHILD REGARDLESS I GRADE LEVEL ENROLLED IN THE DISTRICT DOES NOT RECEIVE ANY INSTRUCTION, PRESENTATION THAT IS HAS THE GOAL OF OR PURPOSE OF STUDENTS I SAIDING GENDER ONLINE AT, GENDER SEXUAL EXPLORATION.

>> HOW IS THAT IS NOT EVERYTHING?

>> IN K THROUGH FIT PROHIBITS ANY SECONDS ED.

>> HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT K THROUGH 5.

>> THAT'S THE FOLLOWING PART OF THAT.

BUT THAT'S WHAT I JUST READ DOES EXIST IN THE MEASURE.

AND THAT SAYS FOR ANY GRADE LEVEL.

ANY CHILD REGARDLESS OF GRADE LEVEL.

>> AGAIN, WHY DOES IT NOT SURPRISE ME DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT'S IN THE BILL.

>> IT KEEPS OUT GENDER IDENTITY, PROMOTING LGBTQ OUNCE IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> THEY JUST THREW EVERYTHING THEY COULD FIND IN THIS BILL.

>> CHILDREN GRADE 5 AND BELOW DO NOT RECEIVE ANY -- HUMAN SEXUALITY OR -- >> THERE'S A PARENTAL OPT-IN.

MY OLDER SON IS IN THE MILITARY.

THE KIDS TO GO A TEXAS SCHOOL AND THEY HAVE OPT-IN THERE WHERE THE PARENTS HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CURRICULUM AND, QUITE FRANKLY, HE LOVED THE CURRICULUM THEY HAD ON THEIR SEX EDUCATION OPTING EVERYBODY IN BECAUSE IT WAS GREAT CURRICULUM.

THE PARENTS SHOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK EVEN AT THE TEENAGERS, OKAY AND BE ABLE TO OPT IN.

>> OPT IN.

>> OKAY.

THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE THIS INCOMES.

AND THEY HAVE A GREAT CURRICULUM BECAUSE OF THAT.

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO OPT OUT.

SO WE HAVE OPT IN.

I THINK THAT'S INVOLVED WIN OPT-IN IN THIS WHERE THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO OPT INTO IT.

AND F. THEN THERE'S NO -- IF THE CHILD -- THEY DON'T WANT THE CHILD TO SEE IT, THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S CONNECTED WITH.

>> RIGHT.

OKAY.

REAL QUICKLY, THREE MINUTES REMAINING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BILL DEALING WITH DRAG SHOWS, AND SO WE THINK THAT'S DEAD, SENATOR WILLIAMS.

>> THEY'RE GOING TO PASS IT ON THE LAST DAY JUST TO DO IT.

>> AND YOU HAVE INTEL TO THAT EFFECT?

>> THEY GAVE IT A FIRST READING IN THE HOUSE ON THURSDAY, THE LAST DAY, SO THEY'RE GOING TO PASS IT ON THE THE LAST DAY OF THE SESSION.

>> AGAIN,NESS ABOUT PROTECTING CHILDREN.

THAT'S OUR INTEREST IN IT.

>> SO EXPLAIN TO THE VIEWERS WHAT THIS PARTICULAR BILL DOES REAL QUICKLY.

>> THIS HAS TO DO -- SO ACTUALLY I CALL IT A SEXUAL EQUALITY BILL BECAUSE THERE'S ACTUALLY THINGS THAT A MALE IMPERSONATING A FEMALE CAN DO BEFORE CHILDREN THAT WOULD GET A FEMALE IN TROUBLE EXPOSING THEMSELVES.

BUT IT WASN'T CLEAR THAT A MALE WHO IS IMPERSONATING A FEMALE WOULD GET THAT THAT TROUBLE.

ALL OF THIS HAS TO DO WITHIN THE PUBLIC BEFORE CHILDREN, YOU CAN STILL HAVE YOUR ADULT SHOWS, EVERYTHING IS FINE.

YOU CAN STILL HAVE, AND THEY DON'T TALK -- DRAG IS NOT IN THE LANGUAGE.

THEY TALK ABOUT MALE AND FEMALE IMPERSONATORS EQUALLIY.

IF YOU'RE A MALE OR FEMALE IMPERSONATOR AND NOBODY REALLY KNOWS AND YOU'RE NOT DOING THINKING THAT IS OBSCENE UNDER OUR OBSCENITY LAWS OR PUREIENT INTEREST.

>> THAT ALONE NOT GOING TO RUN A FUEL OF THE LAW.

>> NO.

YOU CAN HAVE THIS STUFF.

BUT WHEN YOU START APPEALING TO THE PUREIENT INTERESTS OF A CHILD.

>> DEFINE FOR A US PURCHASEIENT.

>> I CAN BARELY PRONOUNCE IT.

>> QUITE FRANKLY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF IT, I HAD IT HERE.

I DON'T EVEN PIKE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE DEFINITION.

GO LOOK IT UP.

>> BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW.

>> I DO AND I'VE SEEN IT BUT IT'S NOT NICE LANGUAGE.

>> YOU DON'T WANT TO USE NOT NICE LANGUAGE WITH A MINUTE AND 36 SECONDS.

>> THE REASON IS BILL IS NECESSARY IS BECAUSE SEXUALLY ORIENTED PERFORMANCES HAVE BEEN TAKING PLACE IN PUBLIC AREAS IN BOWLING GREEN LAST SUMMER.

>> THAT'S A LIE REMEMBER RICHARD.

A BOLD-FACE LIVE LIE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BOWL GREEN PRIDE WHICH HAS NET HAD -- RENEE THIS IS A PARTLY A MULTI-ROCKED NATIONAL TO CREATED A CHILLING EFFECT ON THE PLACES WHERE WE.

>> I'VE SEEN PICTURES OF PERFORMANCES AND I THINK YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME THEY WERE SEXUAL ORIENTED PERFORMANCES, AND THAT'S WHAT SENATE BILL 115 RESTRICTS AND IT KEEPS CHILDREN AWAY FROM THAT.

IT DOES NOT BAN DRAG.

IT DOES NOT BAN THE PAGEANTS OR THE SHOWS OR THE PRIDE EVENTS BUT IT DOES BAN SEXUALLY ORIENTED PERFORMANCES.

>> WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE AND WE WILL WATCH ESCAPEE WHAT HAPPENS COME MARCH 29th AND MARCH 30th AEROTHE LAST TWO DAYS OF THE SESSION.

WE'LL SEE IF SENATE BILL 150 GETS ACROSS THE FINISH LINE AND WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT.

VETO ACTION BY THE GOVERNOR IS POSSIBLE.

WE'LL SEE you NEXT MONDAY AT 8:00, SEE CHILD ABUSE & NEGLECT: A KET SPECIAL REPORT.

YOU'LL HEAR FROM SURVIVORS, PARENTS, SOCIAL WORKERS AND sta OFFICIALS WORKING TO PROTECT KIDS IN DANGER AND TO PREVENT ABUSE BEFORE IT STARTS.

BE SURE TO JOIN US EACH WEEKNIGHT AT 6:30 EASTERN, 5:30 CENTRAL FOR "KENTUCKY EDITION."

WHERE WE BREAK DOWN ALL OF THESE ISSUES AND STORIES IN YOUR HOMETOWN MOST LIKELY EACH WEEK NIGHT AT 6:30/5:30 CENTRAL.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING TONIGHT