WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

OUR TOPIC TONIGHT: KENTUCKY'S SOCIA KENTUCKY FACES A SOCIAL WORKER SHORTAGE AT A CRUCIAL TIME.

THE STATE HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST RATES OF CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLEC IN THE COUNTRY WITH CASELOADS U WHAT'S CAUSING THE SHORTAGE?

AND HOW IS IT ENDANGERING THE CHILDREN WHO RELY ON THE SYSTEM FOR PROTECTION?

TO DISCUSS THIS WE ARE JOINED IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO BY: STATE REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, HOUSE SPEAKER PRO-TEM AN A REPUBLICAN FROM STANFORD.

AND JUSTIN "JAY" MILLER, DEAN OF THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY COLLEGE OF SOCIAL WORK.

JOINING US BY S: DEVIN RUHL, A LOUISVILLE SOCIAL AUSTIN GRIFFITHS, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR CHILD WELFARE EDUCATION AND RESEARCH AT WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY.

AND DEBORAH YETTER, SOCIAL SERVICES REPORTER FOR THE COURIER-JOURNA WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU TYPO SO SEND US A QUESTION OR A COMMENT ON EFFORT twitter @KYTO SEND AN EMAIL TO KYTONIGHT@KET.

OR USE THE WEB FORM AT KET.ORG/ MAKE SURE TO CHECK THE BOX THAT SAYS YOU'RE NOT A ROBOT.

OR YOU CAN GIVE US A CALL AT 1-800-494 WELCOME TO ALL OF OUR GUESTS.

BOTH IN STUDIO AND JOINING US BY SKYPE.

WE WANT TO BEGIN TONIGHT WITH AN INTERVIEW WE DID RECENTLY WITH DEB YEAH YETTER THE COURIER-JOURNAL WHO SPENT A YEAR IN 20 NEEN RESEARCHING CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT IN KENTUCKY AND THE SYSTEM THAT WAS ENTRUSTED TO PROTECT THOSE KIDS.

HERE'S WHAT SHE TOLD US THEN.

>> I'M DEBBIE YETTER.

I'VE WORKED AT THE COURIER-JOURNAL FOR ABOUT 35 YEARS.

LAST YEAR I WROTE A FIVE-PART SERIES ON CHILD ABUSE IN KENTUCKY.

I'VE BEEN COVERING THE ISSUE OFF AND ON FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

I FELT LIKE IT WAS TIME TO REVISIT THE ISSUE BECAUSE THE NUMBERS AND SITUATIONS OF KIDS IN KENTUCKY FRANKLY WERE GETTING WORSE.

I WASN'T SEEING ANY IMPROVEMENT.

AND SOME OF THE CASES WERE I THOUGHT BECOMING ALARMING IN TERMS OF THE NUMBERS AND SEVERITY OF ABUSE.

OVER THE LAST DECADE KENTUCKY HAS RANKED EITHER FIRST OR SECOND IN CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT IN THE NATION.

PI WOULD SAY WE'RE NUMBER ONE IN CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT FOR MULTIPLE REASONS.

THERE'S A HIGH POVERTY RATE IN KENTUCKY, CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT IS TRIED TO POVERTY.

THERE'S LOW EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT, ANOTHER PROBLEM.

THERE ARE WHAT THE EXPERT CALL SERIAL RELATIONSHIPS IN A LOT OF CASES WHERE PARENTS, YOUNG PARENTS ESPECIALLY, WILL MOVE FROM ONE RELATIONSHIP TO ANOTHER AND IN SOME OF THE EXAMPLES THAT I CITED IN MY SERIES, A YOUNG WOMAN MIGHT FIND A NEW PARTNER, A MALE BOYFRIEND WHO WOULD BECOME SORT OF THE CARETAKER FOR YOUNG CHILDREN IN THE WHILE SHE WAS AT WORK.

THE BOYFRIEND DIDN'T HAVE ANY REAL INVESTMENT IN THE KIDS, THEY WEREN'T HIS AND PROBABLY HAD NO EXPERIENCE OR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO DEAL WITH LIKE, SAY, A SCREAMING INFANT OR A UNRULY TODDLER.

AND SOME OF THOSE CASES ENDED IN VIOLENT DEATHS OF KIDS BEING CARED FOR P. ANOTHER PROBLEM IS THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC.

EVERYONE CITES THAT AS JUST IF IT DOESN'T LEAD TO ABUSE, IT LEADS TO NEGLECT BECAUSE THE DRUGS BECOME OVERWHELMINGLY IMPORTANT FOR THE PARENT TO THE POINT WHERE THEY JUST FORGET ABOUT THE CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, THE CARE AND WELFARE THE CHILDREN, AND WHEN I DON'T UNDERSTAND AREN'T AROUND METHAMPHETAMINE IS STILL IN THE BACKGROUND AND IS MAKING SORT OF A COMEBACK.

ONE CASE I LOOKED AT REALLY SURPRISED ME.

THE GRANDPARENTS.

WHEN I GOT INTO THE EXTENSIVE RECORDS OF THIS CASE AND SAW INTERVIEWS THE WITH FAMILY, GRANDPARENTS AND OTHERS IN THE COMMUNITY WERE FULLY AWARE THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG.

THIS LITTLE GIRL WAS SHOWING UP WITH BRUISES AND INJURIES.

SEE SEEMED SCARED OF HER MOM'S BOYFRIEND BUT THEY WERE AFRAID TO REPORT HER BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TOY GUESS CAUSE ANY TROUBLE, AND THAT ADDED TO I'D SEE IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN THROUGHOUT KENTUCKY.

IN KENTUCKY MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THIS IS A MANDATORY REPORTING LAW.

IF YOU, YOU OR I SEE OR SUSPECT CHILD ABUSE OR NEGLECT, WE'RE REQUIRED BY LAW TO REPORT IT, AND THAT GOES THE THE SAME FOR FOOL OFFICIALS AND PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY OR RELATIVES.

I THINK TOO OFTEN PEOPLE HESITATE, OH, DON'T DO IT.

3.

KENTUCKY IN 2008 STARTED BECAUSE OF THE RECESSION, START UNDERGOING SOME PRETTY SIGNIFICANT ROUNDS BUDGET CUTS AND IT DEEPLY DEEP IN, SO SERVICES.

THE FAMILY COURT JUDGES AND SOCIAL WORKERS AND EVERYONE STARRED TO SEE A DIFFERENCE.

THERE JUST WASN'T MONEY OR RESOURCES TO GET IN AND HELP FAMILIES WHO WERE IN TROUBLE AND PREVENT BAD SITUATIONS FROM TURNING WORSE.

NUMBER OF SOCIAL WORKERS HAS DIMINISHED.

THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FILL THE RANKS SOCIAL WORKERS, AND THE JOB DOESN'T PAY THAT GREAT.

I THINK THE AVERAGE SALARIES ARE $35,000 A YEAR.

CASELOADS ARE SOARING.

THEY'RE CARRYING 50 TO 60s CASES SOME OF THE WORKERS ESPECIALLY MATTER HU IN JEFFERSON COUNTY OR OTHER URBAN AREAS.

SOCIAL WORKERS SAY -- TELL ME THAT THE MONEY'S NOT THE ISSUE.

THAT'S NOT WHY THEY GOT INTO THE JOB.

BUT THEIR BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE CASELOADS AND THE PRESSURE AND THE STRESS AND, YOU KNOW, THE FEAR OF SOMETHING GOING WRONG ON THEIR WATCH.

A CHILD THAT THEY CHECKED ON IN A HOME ONE DAY IS FINE, AND THEY COME THE IN NEXT MORNING AND THE CHILD HAS BEEN KILLED.

THAT FEAR IS WITH THEM ALL THE TIME.

THE VALUE OF JOURNALISM LIKE THIS AND THE SERIES WE DID, GETTING IT ONLINE, CIRCULATING IT, HAVING IT IN PRINT ON THE FRONT IMAGE PA EVERY DAY I THINK WAS VALUABLE IN THAT IT SERVED AS I HOPE SORT OF A WAKE-UP CALL TO PEOPLE.

YOU HOW MADDENING IT IS THAT THE SAME STUFF HAPPENS AND OVER AND OVER AND IT'S SILKAL CAL AND THE VIOLENCE IS GOING ON, AND YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CHANGE.

>> Renee: SPEAKER PRO-TEM MEADE WHEN YOU HEARD DEBORAH YETTER RAW YET AREAS ACCOUNTS, THIS IS AN ISSUE YOU ARE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT AND HAVE ADDRESSED THIS IN MESHES IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, BUT MUCH OF WHAT MS. YETTER EXPRESSED FROM THAT PIECE A YEAR AGO STILL APPLIES TODAY, AND IT SEEMS TO BE PERSIST PROBLEMS WITH ADDRESSING ANDETIC PROPOSING THESE CHILDREN WHO ARE ENTRUSTED TO STATE CARE.

WHY IS IT NOT GETTING IN YOU BETTER?

>> WELL, A LOT OF WHAT WE SEE IS THE ABUSE CASES THAT DEBBIE TALKED ABOUT, THOSE ARE ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE SITUATIONS, WHEN WE HAVE THOSE ABUSE CASES, THOSE CHILDREN NEED TO BE TAKEN IMMEDIATELY FROM THOSE HOMES, BUT THERE IS ALSO THE NEGLECT SIDE OF IT, AND ABOUT 70% OF CHILDREN THAT ARE IN CARE ARE THERE BECAUSE OF NEGLECT, AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS START FOCUSING MORE ON THOSE CHILDREN THAT HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED.

WHAT CAN WE DO TO PROVIDE SERVICES BECAUSE THERE'S MANY TIMES WE THINK ABOUT NEGLECT.

WE THINK WELL, THESE FAMILIES DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM, THE PARENT DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM.

THEY'RE JUST LETTING THESE CHILDREN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AT HOME, THEY'RE NO TAKEN CARE OF BUT THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.

MANY TIMES THESE PARENTS WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE CHILDREN BUT THEY LACK THE RESOURCES TO DO IT.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS START PREVENTION BE MORE ON THE PREVENTIVE SIDE OF IT.

THIS PAST SECTION WE PUT $20 MILLION INTO PREVENTIVE SERVICES.

WE WENT INTO BUDGET YOU COMMITTEES.

WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.

THERE WERE FOLKS THAT GAVE ME DATA SAYING IF WE CAN JUST GET THIS MONEY WE CAN START KEEPING THESE CHILDREN A HOME AND NOT TAKING THEM OUT OF THEIR HOMES WHEN WE CAN GIVE THEM THE SERVICES THEY NEED PRIOR TO THAT AND KEEP THEM WITH THEIR FAMILIES, AND THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO FOCUS.

AND IF WE DO THAT, I WAS TOLD THIS IS ONE-TIME MONEY, AND SO THE DATA THAT WE SAW IS IF WE CAN DO THAT, THEN THE EXPENSES THAT WE WILL SAVE ON KEEPING THESE CHILDREN AT HOME, WE CAN CONTINUE THESE PREVENTIVE SERVICES.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING RIGHT NOW.

>> AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT MORE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THE SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER INTERVIEW SAID MUCH OF THE SAME, PREVENTION IS THE FEY.

MILLER, WHEN WE HEAR THE TERM NEGLECT" IT MAYBE CONJURES UP IMAGES BUT I'M NOT SURE OF WHATY MEETS THE DEFINITION OF WHAT I LEGALLY QUALIFY AS NEGLECT.

WHAT IS NEGLECT?

>> SURE.

I THINK NEGLECT RUNS A CONTINUUM.

IT'S BASED IN CONCEPT IS A FAMILY ABEL TO MEET THE BASIC NEEDS THE CHILDREN IN THE HOME, AND I THINK A LOT OF TIMES, TO THE SPEAKER'S POINT, THERE ARE RESOURCAL OCCUPATIONS AND THINGS THAT KIND OF GO INTO HOW WE OFFER SERVICES AROUND NEGLECT, AND I THINK THERE ARE DIFFERENT MODELS AROUND, DIFFERENTIAL RESPONSES AND THINGS THAT THE CABINET WILL TRY TO DO IN ORDER TO RESPOND TO THOSE CASES IN HOPES THAT WE CAN KEEP THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THEIR HOME.

BUT NEGLECT, AS IS ABUSE, IS A VERY COMPLICATED CONCEPT.

AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME COMPLICATED RESPONSES IN ORDER TO APPROPRIATELY ADDRESS IT.

>> YOU WERE IN THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM YOURSELF.

CORRECT?

>> INDEED.

>> TELL US A BLUT ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE.

>> SO, YOU KNOW -- A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE.

>> BEING A YOUNG CHILD, MY MOTHER DIED WHEN I WAS VERY YOUNG.

MY FATHER SUS COUPLED TO SUBSTANCE MISUSE AND THAT KIND OF STARTED MY JOURNEY INTO CARE.

INTERESTINGLY, I KNEW VERY EARLY BECAUSE I HAD AN OUT-OF-HOME CARE EXPERIENCE THAT I WANTED TO GO INTO CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES.

AND SO I HAVE BEEN IN THE UNIQUE SPACE TO HAVE BEEN IN AND OUT OF HOME COMPARE, AND THEN I WORKED AS A CPS INVESTIGATOR FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, AND NOW I'M IN A SPACE TO BE ABLE TO DO RESEARCH IN THAT AREA.

SO FOR ME IT IS IT'S A VERY HOLISTIC EXPERIENCE.

AND I OFTEN SAY IF NOT FOR OUT OF HOME CARE I WOULDN'T BE TALKING TO YOU HERE TODAY.

THAT'S THE TOWER THAT WE DON'T TELL ENOUGH.

WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT OUT-OF-HOME CARE IS A SERVICE THAT WE PROVIDED TO CHILDREN AND FAMILIES.

THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT IS GOING TO BE NECESSARY, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S THE BEST SERVICE POSSIBLE.

WE CERTAINLY NEED TO PREVENT KIDS FROM ENTERING OUT OF HOME CARE BUT WE NEED TO UNTHAT IT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE SERVICE ARRAY AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO INVEST IN HAVING A SYSTEM THAT CAN CARE FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES.

>> DEBORAH YETTER WITH THE COURIER-JOURNAL, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

USUALLY FOLKS ARE USED TO SEEING YOU ON THE FRIDAY NIGHT END OF THINGS, BUT THIS ISSUE WAS SO IMPORTANT WHEN YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT IT THAT I FELT THAT YOUR PRESENCE HERE TONIGHT AND YOUR PERSPECTIVE WOULD GREATLY ADD TO OUR CONVERSATION.

AND I WANT YOU TO REFLECT ON WHAT YOU SAID BACK THEN AT THE TIME THAT THAT PIECE IN THE COURIER-JOURNAL, IT HAD BEEN A YEAR THAT IT HAD BEEN PUBLISHED AND WHERE WE ARE NOW.

WOULD THE SAME THINGS YOU SAID STILL HOLD UP TODAY IN 2021?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, YES.

I THINK THE SITUATION IS STILL PRETTY DIRE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO HAVING ADEQUATE NUMBERS OF SOCIAL SERVICE WORKERS TO WORK WITH THESE FAMILIES AND PROVIDE SERVICES WHEN POSSIBLE.

THE SPEAKER IS CORRECT, THE STATE HAS EMBARKED ON FAMILIES FIRST, AN EFFORT AIMED AT PREVENTION, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THESE KIDS IN SOMETIMES VERY DIRE SITUATIONS AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY CAN DO TO RESCUE THEM, AND I THINK THE STRAIN IS REALLY STARTING TO WEAR ON SOCIAL SERVICE SYSTEM.

JUDGING ON RECENT REPORTS THEY'RE LOSING HUNDREDS WORKERS BECAUSE OF LOW SALARIES AND STRESS AND CASELOADS.

>> DEVIN RUHL, A LOUISVILLE SOCIAL WORKER WHO IS JOINING US ALSO BY SKYPE, YOU WROTE A VERY POINTED PIECE THAT APPEARED ABSENCE OP ED IN THE COURIER-JOURNAL WHERE YOU HAD SOME PRETTY SCATHINGCI CABINET AND OF WHAT -- HOW THINGS NEED TO CHANGE TO ADDRESS THIS SOCIAL WORKER SHORTAGE.

CAN YOU GIVE US THE CLIFFSNOTES VERSION OF WHAT YOU WROTE IN THAT PIECE.

>> WELL, I'D SAY MY PERSPECTIVE WASN'T NECESSARILY -- WASN'T NECESSARILY SCATHING OF THE CABINET BECAUSE I'M VERY PROUD TO WORK FOR THE CABINET.

IT'S WHAT I DO.

I MEAN, I'M SO HAPPY TO BE THERE AND DO THE WORK THAT I DO.

IT'S MORE, YOU KNOW, AS WE ARE FRYING TO -- AS WE CONTINUE TO HEMORRHAGE THESE WORKERS AND VERY GOOD WORKERS, NO PEOPLE THAT WOULD GIVE A -- WHEN WE HAVE CASES STACKING UP AND GETTING PILED ON AND WHEN SOMEONE ELSE LEAVES, THOSE GO SOMEWHERE, RIGHT?

SO, YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE GOING, WE NEED TO LOOK AT WAYS TO FIX THIS.

TO MAKE THE PAY COMPARABLE OR EQUITABLE, RATHER, COMPARABLE TO A PRIVATE AGENCY.

IF WE CONTINUE TO LOSE WORKERS LIKE THIS, THE CASES KEEP GETTING HIGHER AND THERE'S NO ONE TO SAVE US.

IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT A PRODUCT THAT DOESN'T NEED A DEADLINE.

CHILDREN DON'T GET SEEN.

CHILDREN CAN GET HURT.

THINGS CAN CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

>> I DIDN'T MEAN THE MISCHARACTERIZE WHAT YOUR INTENT WAS AND YOUR CRITICISM SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.

I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN LOUISVILLE AND HOW -- WHAT'S ARE WHY AVERAGE CASELOAD?

BECAUSE WE KNOW IT CAN VARY, AND IN URBAN AREAS IT CAN BE QUITE HIGH.

>> I'M A LITTLE DUSTIN.

I'M ON A SPECIALIZED TEAM, THE BUTTER AND TREATMENT TEAM WHICH HAS A LOWER CASE ROAD BUT IT'S DUE TO OUR GRAN SO WE SEE FAMILIES WELCOME BACK IN THOSE WEEKLY IN MOST CASES, EACH MEMBER FAMILY AND THE CHILDREN UP TO ONCE A WEEK POSSIBLY.

SO MY CURRENT CADE LOAD ON THAT IS CAPPED AT THE MAX THAT WE CAN 6 PER OUR GRANT, BUT I WAS JUST ASSIGNED FOUR NEW CASES, REGULAR ONGOING CASES.

WITH PROMISES MORE TO COME.

>> DOES THAT -- IS THAT A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE OR HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT CASELOAD?

DOES IT SEEM ADEQUATE FOR YOU TO HANDLE?

>> SO AGAIN, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT BECAUSE I'M PART OF -- THE SPECIALIZED TEAM BUT I'M ALSO MASTER THE CABINET.

THERE'S A STIPEND PROGRAM THAT LETS ME WORK AND DO PART OF MY PRACTICUM HOURS ON THE JOB, SO TO SPEAK.

SO MY CASELOAD HAS BEEN KIND OF HELD TOGETHER LIKE THAT.

NOW, PEERS MINE WHICH HAVE BEEN TEXTING ME AND MESSAGING ME ALL DAY TO LET ME KNOW THAT IN SOME PLACES THERE'S 40 CASES OF ONGOING WORK AND UP TO 100 IN THE INVESTIGATE SIDE OF THINGS.

>> SO I WANT TO BRING IN NOW PROFESSOR/DR.

GRIFFITHS FROM WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU, SIR, FOR BEING WITH US.

I KNOW YOU JUST FINISHED TEACHING A CLASS.

AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CENTER AT WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY DOES WHEN IT COMES TO CHILD WELFARE AND PREPARING SOCIAL WORKERS FOR THIS WORK THAT LIES AHEAD FOR THEM.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT.

SO REALLY AND TRULY, I REMEMBER FORMER COMMISSIONER ERIC TALKING ABOUT HOW CHILD WELFARE BELONGS THE ALL OF US.

IT DOES.

AND SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT HERE IN WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY.

WE'VE RECENTLY PARTNERED WITH LIFE SKILLS, AND IT'S CALLED THE LIFE SKILL CENTER FOR WILDALTUAL WELFARE EDUCATION AND RESEARCH AND IT'S A PRACTICAL APPROACH.

HOW CAN WE BUILD AN ALLIANCE TO BRING THE COMMUNITY, THE UNIVERSITY TOGETHER TO PARTNER WITH AGENCIES CERTAINLY INCLUDING THE DEPARTMENT FOR COMMUNITY-BASED SERVICES, AND IT'S REALLY KIND OF A TWO-PHASED APPROACH SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NUMBER ONE, REDUCING THESE UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS.

SO I APPRECIATE DEAN MILLER AS FAR AS DEFINITELY AS WELL TALKING ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE WORKING IN CHILD PROTECTION.

DID I THAT MYSELF FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS HERE IN KENTUCKY.

THESE ARE SOME FORMATIVE YEARS FOR IVES MYSELF AND THIS IS CERTAINLY WHAT MOTIVATES ME TO CONTINUE DOWN THIS PATH ALTHOUGH NOW DIFFERENT, I WORK AT THE UNIVERSITY.

BUT JUST KNOWING BE WITH DOING RESEARCH NOW, BEING THE DIRECTOR OF OUR CENTER, THIS WORKFORCE FACES STRAIGHT UP UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS.

SO THAT PREVENTIVE WORK, AS REPRESENTATIVE MEADE SAID WANT THAT PREVENTIVE WORK, GETTING IN THERE DOING THIS PREVENTIVE STUFF IS SO ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT.

SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ISSUES COLLABORATING WITH COMMUNITY PARTNERS TO DO PREVENTIVE WORK BUT ON THE IB FLIP SIDAL ALSO DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE WORKFORCE.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'D LIKE TO MENTION IS, YOU KNOW, THESE WORKERS FACE SIGNIFICANT JOB STRESS, AND THE THING ABOUT IT IS IT'S NOT A SECRET.

IT'S NOT A SECRET NATIONALLY, INTERNATIONAL OR IN KENTUCKY, AND SO WE HAVE THIS WELLNESS INITIATIVE CALLED THE KENTUCKY CHILD WELFARE WORKFORCE WELLNESS INITIATIVE WHERE WE'RE OUT THERE MEASURING WITH BIOMETRIC DEVICES THE STRESS IMPLICATIONS OF DOING THIS WORK, AND THE GREAT THING IS THAT KENTUCKY'S STANDING UP, ALLOWING THEIR WORKFORCE TO PARTICIPATE IN IT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME GREAT EVIDENCE OF THE STRESS IMPLICATIONS OF THIS WORK.

IT'S NOT A SECRET IF YOU'VE DONE THIS JOB THAT THERE IS SIGNIFICANT STRESS, BUT NOW THIS IMPACTS YOUR HEALTH WILL GIVE US EVIDENCE ABOUT NOT ONLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMPENSATION AND PAY.

THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE THING.

BUT COMPENSATION RELATED TO RESOURCES AS FAR AS CONTRIBUTING TO A DIFFERENT OR AN IMPROVED WORK ENVIRONMENT, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN INTERDISCIPLINARY APPROACH TO WELLNESS INITIATIVES ON WORK TIME WHERE PEOPLE CAN BE HEALTHY AND WELL AND DO THEIR VERY BEST.

MIGHT IT BE A BETTER IDEA TO INVEST THE IN WORKFORCE AND THE HEALTH OF THE WORKFORCE THEMSELF WHEN IT'S SO VERY EXPENSIVE, NOT ONLY DOES I NEGATIVELY IM-- OR NEGATIVELY INFLUENCE THE LIVES FAMILIES AND CHILDREN, CERTAINLY WITH WORKFORCE TURNOVER, BUT IT'S ALSO VERY EXPENSIVE, IT'S VERY COSTLY WITH THE AMOUNT OF WORKFORCE TURN TURNOVER THAT'S GOING ON.

THERE'S JUST A LOT OF THINGS WE DO AT WESTERN.

WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT.

WE LOVE COLLABORATING WITH OUR COLLEAGUES AT UNIVERSITIES AND AGENCIES AROUND AND IT'S A PASSION OF OURS SO I APPRECIATE BEING ABLE TO BE HERE TONIGHT.

>> DR. GRIFFITHS, I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN A TERM YOU USED A COUPLE OF TIMES IN YOUR STATEMENT THERE, UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS.

FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH THE WORK AND THE DANGER THAT SOCIAL WORKERS PUT THEMSELVES IN, EXPLAIN TO US WHAT UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS REALLY MEANS.

>> SO I GUESS THE BEST WAY I CAN PUT IT IS THIS.

PEOPLE HAVE ASKED ME FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, WHAT'S YOUR END RESULT OF ALL THIS?

AND I ALWAYS SAY, WHEN I WORKED FOR THE AGENCY, I WANT TO GET REPORTING OR OTHER PEOPLE TO GO ON A RIDE-ALONG WITH ME BECAUSE AT TIMES YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

AND THIS JOB IS REALLY OUT OF SIGHT AND OUT OF MIND.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REASONS, GIVEN CONFIDENTIALITY AND OTHER THINGS, BUT UNTIL YOU SEE OR EXPERIENCE WHAT IS HAPPENING, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.

AND SO UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS, WHAT I WOULD SAY, ARE REALLY NEVER BEING ABLE TO UNPLUG, BREATHE, FEELING LIKE IT A ONE-WAY STREET WHERE ALL OF CHILD WELFARE IS ON BEHALF OF THE FIVE HUMAN BEINGS THAT ARE IN, FOR EXAMPLE, HART COUNTY OR WHEREVER YOU'RE AT, DOING YOUR BEST TO TRY TO MAKE DO WITH THE RESOURCES AND THE HELP AND THEPORT THAT YOU HAVE TO TRY TO HELP FAMILY AND CHILDREN.

THAT'S HOW YOU FEEL EVERY DAY.

AND SO THESE UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS ARE THAT THERE ARE NO BOUNDARIES ON BEHALF OF WHAT YOU ARE EXPECTED TO DO, AND IT'S JUST REALLY THE CLOCK IS TICKING BEFORE THESE SPREADS FEEL LIKE THEY'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ELSE, AND I THINK IT'S PRETTY AMPLIFIED RIGHT NOW.

IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS.

>> SPEAKER PRO-TEM MEADE, WHEN YOU HEAR DR. GRIFFITH AND IS DEVIN RUHL AND EVEN DEAN MILLER TALKING ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES AND BEING ON A RIDE-ALONG TO SEE WHAT PAYDAY IS LIKE IN THE LIFE OF A SOCIAL WORKER, DO YOU THINK MOST LAWMAKER UNDERSTAND THE DEPTH AND THE SACRIFICES OF THAT WORK?

AND WHAT COMMITMENT ARE OOHING TO HOPEFULLY PERSUADE YOUR FELLOW GENERAL ASSEMBLY MEMBERS TO DO TO HELP THIS INDUSTRY?

THIS SERVICESOME.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT ALL LEGISLATORS UNDER WHAT THESE SOCIAL WORKERS GO THROUGH.

THERE ARE SOME OF US THAT UNDERSTAND IT BETTER JUST BECAUSE WE DOVE INTO THIS ISSUE, WE HAVE WORKED, WE'VE HEARD THE STORIES.

I THINK THE BEST WAY FOR US TO PERSUADE THEM IS WE COP TO HEAR FIRSTHAND STORIES.

DR.

CAME TO CHILD WELFARE ADVISORY COMMITTEE LAST MONTH AND TESTIFIED THERE, AND WE NEED THOSE EXPERIENCES.

WE NEED TO HEAR IT DIRECTLY FROM THE SOCIAL WORKERS.

WE NEED TO HAVE THOSE FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCES TOLD TO ALL THOSE FOLKS THE IN GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AND THEY'RE EXACTLY RIGHT, THESE SOCIAL WORKERS ARE GOING INTO SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S A VERY STRESSFUL JOB.

THEY'RE GOING INTO HOMES WHERE THEY'RE TAKING THE MOSTALLAL VAL A YOU'LL BE ASSET OF SOMEONE, THAT IS THEIR CHILDREN, OUT OF THOSE THUNDERSTORMS HOMES.

EVERY DAY THEY HAVE TO GO OUT TO A HOME THEY HAVE TO HAVE A POLICE OFFICER.

THE STRESS HAS TO BE UNBELIEVABLE, AND THE SITUATIONS THAT THEIR PUT INTO, AND WE HEARD A STORY HERE A WHILE BACK ABOUT ONE GENTLEMAN BEING HELD A GUNPOINT WHEN HE WENT IN TO TAKE THE CHILDREN AWAY, THOSE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE THESE FOLKS DESERVE MORE PAY.

THEY DESERVE TO BE COMPENSATED FOR WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION THIS PAST BUDGET CYCLE.

IN OUR BUDGET CONVERSATION WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.

WE WERE READY TO GIVE THOSE RAISES.

AND -- >> WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WELL, THERE WAS AM IS ON INFORMATION THAT WAS FED BACK TO US THAT SAID THAT THERE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT DISPARITY FROM SOME FOLKS OVER AT THE CABINET, AND WHEN THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS -- THE PAY WAS ACROSS THE BOARD.

WELL, WE'RE IN A VERY TIGHT SITUATION.

IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW.

SO LET'S FOCUS IN ON THE SITUATION THAT WE CAN HANDLE.

LET'S TAKE CARE OF THE NEED THAT WE HAVE AT HAND RIGHT NOW WITH THOSE SOCIAL WORKERS.

AND WHEN I MENTION THE SITUATIONS THAT THEY'RE BEING PLACED INTO, THE STRESS THAT THEY'RE UNDER, MAYBE IT IS WORTH MORE FOR THEIR PAY THAN A SUPERVISOR RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THAT'S THE NEED, AND LET'S WORRY ABOUT THE PAY DISPARITY LATER BUT LET'S TRY TO TAKE CARE OF THE IMMEDIATE NEED THAT WE HAVE.

>> ON ANY I TALKED TO SECRETARY ERIC FORT LAUDERDALE WHO PHILADELPHIA AT THE HEALTHY AND HUMAN SERVICES.

SECRETARY PHILADELPHIA, THANK YOU FOR A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME THIS AFTERNOON.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE.

>> IT THANK YOU.

>> SO WE HAVE BEEN READING QUITE A LOT ABOUT WORKER SHORTAGES BUT IN PARTICULARLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS WE HAVE HEARD AND READ A LOT ABOUT SOCIAL WORKER SHORTAGES, AND I'M CURIOUS TO ASK ABOUT WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF OUR SOCIAL SERVICES SYSTEM IN KENTUCKY WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE WHO PROVIDE THESE REALLY CRITICAL SERVICES?

HOW SHORT OF A SHORTAGE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

>> RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME TODAY.

FIRST, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR COVERAGE, AND WHAT I FEEL IS, AS WE DISCUSS THESE ISSUES, YOUR SUPPORT FOR SOCIAL WORKERS IN THE FIELD.

I STARTED THE WORK AT THE CABINET IN 1985.

WE HAVE GONE THROUGH A LOT OF DIFFERENT TIMES.

WE HAVE HAD CRISES, WORKERS INJURED, AND WE GO THROUGH A CYCLE OF WHERE WE REALLY LOOK AT THE ISSUES AND IN THE SOCIAL SERVICE SYSTEM AND WE'RE AT ANOTHER CRISIS POINT.

WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE WE ARE NOW SEEING MORE VACANCIES, MORE FOLKS LEAVING THE SYSTEM THAN WE HAVE.

AND WE'RE UP 20, 30% IN TERMS OF OUR TURNOVER RATE AND WE'RE SEEING FOLKS LEAVE THE PROFESSION, AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE SUPPORT FOLKS IN THE SOCIAL SERVICES EVER SERVICE SYSTEM, BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE WE JUST ARE STARTING TO NOT HAVE ENOUGH FOLKS IN THE FIELD.

AND THAT IMPACTS THEN OUR REPORTS ABUSE AND NEGLECT, HOW QUICKLY WE CAN RESPOND, AND THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN ONGOING, AND OUR GOVERNOR HAS BEEN VERY GOOD ABOUT REQUESTING ADDITIONAL SOCIAL WORKERS, REQUESTING ADDITIONAL PAY, AND WILL CONTINUE TO WORK TOWARDS THAT.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS A GOAL, AND WE NEED TO BE AGGRESSIVE ABOUT THAT.

WE NEED TO LOOK THE OUR SYSTEMS AND MAKE CHANGES.

AND I HOSPITAL THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.

>> SO WHAT -- I HEAD COACH THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.

>> SO WHAT DO SOCIAL WORKERS FOR EXITING EXITING THE PROFESSION CITE TO YOU AS THE MAIN REASONS THEY'RE CHOOSING TO PURSUE SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY?

>> WELL, I.

PAY IS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS.

THAT BURN-OUT, THAT TRAUMA THAT SOCIAL WORKERS GO THROUGH.

WE CALL IT SECONDARY TRAUMA.

AS YOU KNOW, I WORKED FOR A LITTLE BIT IN THE CITY OF LOUISVILLE AND THEN I CAME BACK TO THE STATE.

ONE OF THE REASONS I CAME BACK IS THAT WE DID NOT ADDRESS SECONDARY TRAUMA.

WE DID NOT REALLY WORK WITH THE FOLKS WHO WORKED FOR THE CABINET, WHO GET EXPOSED TO THAT KIND OF TRAUMA AND HELP THEM THROUGH THAT AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

>> SO WHAT DO YOU ANTICIPATE BEING SOME POSSIBLE TWEAKS TO THE CABINET IN ORDER TO BE RESPONSIVE NOT JUST TO SOCIAL WORKERS BUT THOSE WHO ARE ENTRUSTED IN THE CABINET'S CARE?

>> THANK YOU.

WITH THAT WE HAVE DONE IS WE HAVE REALLY FOCUSED, AS I SAID, ON THAT RESILIENCE PIECE, ON MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE PROVIDING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO FEEL THAT THE CABINET CARES ABOUT THEIR WORK.

YOU SEE THAT AS EVIDENCED BY DEVIN'S LETTER.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SOCIAL WORKERS ALWAYS TALK ABOUT IS THAT THEY'RE FRIGHTENED THAT THE CABINET WILL REAL TAL YATE IF THEY ADVOCATE FOR THEMSELVES.

I THINK WE HAVE MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT PART OF BEING RIPPLE, TRAUMA-INFORMED IS THAT YOU GET TO ADVOCATE FOREVERS.

THERE WILL BE NO RETALIATION.

I CAN'T ALWAYS TELL WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE LOCAL SUPERVISOR LEVEL, YOU THE ABOUT WHAT I CAN SAY FROM THE TOP IS THIS.

IF YOU CAN'T RESPECT FOR YOURSELF, WHO CAN YOU ADVOCATE FOR?

IF YOU AND I THINK THAT'S THE SYSTEMIC PIECE THAT WE HAVE TRIED TO CHANGE.

THERE ARE OTHERS I CAN GO INTO.

WE HAVE REALLY BEEN WORKING OUR ON PREVENTATIVE SERVICES ERGAS PO OUR MODEL.

WE'RE SEEING A DECLINE IN OUT-OF-HOME CARE.

SO OUR PREVENTION SERVICES, WE BELIEVE, ARE STARTING TO HAVE AN IMPACT BECAUSE WE WANT TO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER.

YOU KNOW, THE PREFERENCE IS THINK OF IT AS A THE PERSPECTIVE OF A CHILD IN FOSTER CARE.

YOU TURN 18.

AND YOU ESSENTIALLY HAVE NO FAMILY.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I WOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT WITHOUT HAVING FAMILY SUPPORT DURING SOME OF THOSE REALLY CHALLENGING YEARS.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING.

AND SO WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED WITH HOW WE KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER, HOW WE SUPPORT IN A MULTI-GENERATIONAL WAY FOR FAMILIES TO STAY TOGETHER.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE CHANGING.

COMMISSIONER MAINDER STRAUB TALKS ABOUT DCFS OF THE 21st CENTURY AND WE HAVE TO ALTER OUR SYSTEM, OUR SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE WE'RE SUPPORTING FAMILIES AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SUPPORTING THE WORKERS WORKERS IN THE FIELD.

>> TO THE POINT ABOUT FAMILY REUNIFICATION AND ENSURING THAT FAMILIES CAN STAY TOGETHER WHEN IT MAKES SENSE TO DO SO, THERE ARE TIMES, AS YOU VERY WELL KNOW, SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER, WHEN IT IS NOT SAFE AND IT CAUSES FURTHER ENDANGERING OF A CHILD TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE THE PARENTS ARE NOT IN A PLACE TO PROVIDE CARE.

HOW IS THAT BEING ADDRESSED?

WE KNOW THERE WERE SOME REFORMS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO THAT TALKED ABOUT THE TIMELINE FOR WHICH A CHILD WOULD KIND OF LANGUISH AND AFTER -- WHAT IS IT?

-- 15 MONTHS THERE WOULD BE A TERMINATION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS, BUT WE HEAR OF CASES THAT STILL LANGUISH TWO YEARS LIST.

OUT ON THAT.

HOW IS THE CABINET ADDRESSING THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE?

>> WE CONTINUE TO WORK WHEN THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE OF THE COURTS.

THAT'S THE COURT SYSTEM.

TO BE SURE THAT WE ARE AS STREAM LONG ISLAND AS WE POSSIBLY CAN BE, BUT WHEN WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SOCIAL WORKERS THE IN FIELD, THAT CAN SLOW DOWN OUR RESPONSE TIME, AND DOES ON OCCASION.

THE WHOLE MOVING TO A VIRTUAL FORMAT WITH THE COURTS HAS ALTERED OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COURT I THINK IN A WAY THAT IS GOOD AND BENEFICIAL.

TAKING OUT SOME TRAVEL-TIME, TAKING OUT SOME OF THAT WE CALL IT ADMINISTRATIVIA IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE, TAKING AWAY SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT CAUSE US TO DELAY.

WE'RE GOING TO COME OUT OF COVID AND WE'RE GOING TO LEARN SOME THINGS, AND I HOPE WE KEEP THE THINGS THAT ARE BETTER, SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO TO STREAMLINE OUR PROCESSES, TO MAKE SURE SOME OF THESE ABUSE AND NEGLECT PIECES ARE HORRENDOUS.

SOME OF THEM HAVE TO DO JUST WITH NEGLECT AND POVERTY.

HOW DO WE ADDRESS THAT?

THOSE ARE DEEPER SYSTEMIC ISSUES THAT I THINK WAL NEED TO WORK ON.

>> WE ALL NEED TO WORK ON.

>> AS YOU KNOW THERE WERE SOME ESTIMATES EARLIER IN YEAR FROM THE ANNIE E. CASEY FOUNDATION THAT FOUND ONE OUT EVERY 13 CHILDREN IN KENTUCKY WITH BEING RAISED BY A RELATIVE WHO THAN THE ISN'T THEIR BIOLOGIC PARENT.

THE RATE OF KINSHIP CARE IN KENTUCKY IS MIEST IN THE U.S.

TOTALING SOME 77,000 CHILDREN, AND THE REPORT THAT THAT WAS DONE BY THE KENTUCKY CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING CALLED KENTUCKY THE EPICENTER OF AMERICANS, QUOTE, HIDDEN FOSTER CARE SYSTEM WHEN IT COMES TO CAREGIVERS SHOULDERING THIS BURDEN AND PERHAPS MAYBE EVEN A BLESSING OF CARING FOR KIDS THAT ARE NOT THEIR IMMEDIATE BIOLOGICALLAL CHILDREN.

WHAT'S BEING DONE TO BRING ABOUT PARE WHEN IT COME TO COMPENSATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE DELIVERING KINSHIP CARE SERVICES VERSUS THOSE WHO ARE IN THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM?

>> RIGHT.

WE CONTINUE TO WORK ON PROGRAMS THAT SUPPORT GRANDPARENTS OR A RELATIVE OR FRIENDS OF THE FAMILY.

THOSE NUMBERS THAT WE KNOW OF ARE IN OR OUT-OF-HOME CARE NUMBERS.

WE REALLY INCLUDED THEM FOR SOME OF THE FIRST TIMES.

IT ACTUALLY GOES BACK I THINK TO THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.

NOW WE HAVE MOVED SOME OF THOSE REALLY GOOD WORKS FORWARD.

BUT -- SO WE TRY TO KEEP IT THAT WAY.

AS A SAID I'VE BEEN AROUND THE STATE SINCE 1985.

I USED TO BE THE SKU DIRECTOR OF A PLACE CALLED COMMISSION FOR CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL HEALTH CARE NEEDS.

THAT WAS IN THE '90S.

AND WE SAW THAT PARTICULARLY SOME COUNTIES ACROSS THE STATE, WHEN WE HAD CHILDREN THAT WE WERE WORKING WITH, THERE WAS ALREADY A PRETTY INCREDIBLE PERCENTAGE CHILDREN WHO WERE BEING RAISED BY THEIR GRANDPARENTS.

WE HAD TO CHANGE SOME OF OUR FORMS EVEN THEN TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHEN WE COULD GET CONSENT FROM FOLKS WHO THE CHILDREN WERE NOT NECESSARILY IN THEIR LEGAL CARE.

SO THAT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE THAT'S BEEN AROUND IN KENTUCKY FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

AND WE DO NEED TO CONTINUE TO ADDRESS THAT.

OFTENTIMES IT'S THE COMBINATION OF POVERTY AND GENERATIONAL ISSUES AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE SEEN THE SCOURGE OF SUBSTANCE USE ACROSS THE STATE.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE DRIVING OUR NUMBERS, BUT THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD KNOW HOW TO ADDRESS, THAT WE SHOULD START TO ADDRESS IN THE WAYS THAT MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE.

WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT AS WE COME OUT OF COVID THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A STRONG ECONOMY IT.

LOOKS LIKE IT.

BUT AGAIN, THAT FOCUS ON PREVENTION AND KEEPING PEOPLE TOGETHER EARLY, I THINK REPRESENTATIVE MEADE IS ON YOUR PANEL.

HE DID A GREAT JOB IN THE LAST SESSION OF ALLOWING FOR SOME ADOPTION ADDITIONAL PREVENTION FUNDS.

THAT'S THE KIND OF YOU THING THAT WE NEED TO DO TO WORK IN CONCERT WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY BECAUSE I THINK WE CAN MAKE PROGRESS.

AND I THINK NOW IS THE TIME TO DO THAT.

WE'VE SEEN MORE INTEREST LIKE THIS PROGRAM FOR SUPPORTING AND HOW DO WE SUPPORT AND HOW IMPORTANT THIS WORK IS.

AND I THINK NOW IS THE TIME TO REALLY STRIKE AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> AS A GENERAL QUESTION AS WE WRAP UP, YOU MENTIONED YOU HAD BEEN AROUND DOING THIS TYPE WORK SINCE THE 8/01 SINCE 1985, AND SOMEONE MAY THINK, WELL, HOW ARE KENTUCKY'S CHILDREN SAFER NOW THAN THEY WERE WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED THIS WORK?

ARE THEY BETTER OFF NOW?

AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THE PERSISTENT PROBLEMS THAT CONTINUE TO PLAGUE THE SOCIAL SERVICES SYSTEM IN THIS STATE?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY THE QUESTION WE ARE ASKING.

WHEN WE SAY WE CAN'T A DCBS IN THE SOCIAL SERVICE Z21st CENTURY, WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON PREVENTION.

WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON MAKING OUR SERVICES AS AVAILABLE AS POSSIBLE TO EVERYONE ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

POVERTY -- POVERTY IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND BETTER.

IT IS NOT THAT NECESSARILY THAT SOMEBODY IS LAZY AND WE SEE ALL OF THOSE KIND OF STEREOTYPES.

THAT'S US J NOT TRUE.

SOME FOLKS ARE WORKING VERY HARD.

AND WHEN WE DON'T OFFER A LIVING WAGE TO FOLK, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO CONTINUE TO RAISE A FAMILY.

SO WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THAT.

AGAIN WE'RE ONE OF THE FIRST STATES THAT HAD OUR FAMILY FIRST PREVENTION PROGRAM APPROVED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WE HAD IT IN ARMY.

WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON PREVENTION.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT PREVENTION OR YEARS AND YEARS & POOR'S YEARS, YEARS AND WE HAVE NOT FUNDED IT.

WE HAVE TO DO THAT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE UPSTREAM BEFORE A CHILD COMES IN THE SYSTEM.

THAT'S HOW WE MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

SO I WILL SAY THAT PREVENTION TOXIC IF FOCUS, REALLY MAKING SURE WE HAVE COMMUNITY SERVICES AND SUPPORTS IN COMMUNITY, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO CHANGE.

THAT'S THE SYSTEMIC ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE.

AND I'LL TELL YOU SINCE 1985 WE HAVE HAD I WOULD SAY FITS AND STARTS AT IT, BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE NOW.

AND I WANT TO ASSURE FOLKS OUT THERE THAT THAT'S OUR INTENT, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO.

WE WANT TO SUPPORT OUR SOCIAL WORKERS.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO PUNISH OUR SOCIAL WORKERS.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY FEEL SUPPORTED.

>> SECRETARY ERIC FRIEDLANDER, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US TODAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> DEBORAH YET WISH WANT TO GO TO YOU AND HAVE YOU RESPOND.

HE TALKED ABOUT RETALIATION, THAT THE CABINET IS NOT THERE TO PUNISH THOSE SOCIAL WORKS WHO COME FORWARD, AND WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS PREVENTION PIECE.

I'M INTEREST FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE WHAT YOU TAKE AWAY FROM WHAT SECRETARY FRIEDLANDER SAYS.

IS PREVENTION THE KEY HERE, FROM YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE COVERING THIS ISSUE?

WHAT IS THE MAGIC SILVER BULLET, IF THERE INDEED IS ONE?

>> I THINK PREVENTION CLEARLY WORKS, AND IN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE STATE HAS THE MEANS AND THE COURTS HAVE THE MEANS TO USE IT.

ONE EXAMPLE IS THE FAMILY -- THEY YOU'D TO BE CALLED FAMILY DRUG COURT.

NOW THEY'RE RECOVERY COURTS.

AND WHAT THEY DO THERE IS FOCUS ON FAMILIES INTENSIVELY OVER A YEAR, AND RATHER THAN REMOVE THE CHILDREN, THEY WORK WITH THEM, HELP THEM GET INTO SOBRIETY, THEY GET REWARDED, GET HELPED WITH FOOD, NEEDS FOR THE FAMILY, CLOTHES FOR THE KIDS, TRANSPORTATION, AND IT HAS A PLEAT GOOD SUCCESS RATE.

UNFORTUNATELY SOME WERE DISCONTINUED IN 20 AT ANY TIME BECAUSE OF BUDGET CUTS.

ONE WAS RESTARTED IN JEFFERSON COUNTY WITH PRIVATE DONATIONS, A FUND RAISING CAMPAIGN AND ANOTHER ONE RECENTLY STARTED IN CLAY COUNTY WITH THE AID OF A FEDERAL GRANT.

OTHERS EXAMPLES OF PREVENTION THAT CAN GET IN AND INTERRUPT IS A SITUATION BEFORE IT BECOME UNTENABLE TO LEAVE A CHILD IN A HOME BECAUSE OF ABUSE OR NEGLECT.

BUT WITHOUT THE RESOURCES AND WORKERS TO PROVIDE THOSE AND WORK WITH FAMILIES, IT JUST NEVER SEEMS TO GET OFF THE GROUND, AND IT WON'T, NIGH OPINION, UNLESS THEY CAN PROVIDE THE PEOPLE TO WORK WITH FAMILIES AND AFFECT SOME OF THE HELP THEY NEED.

>> SOME OF THE COMMENTS WE'VE GOTTEN TONIGHT, THIS PERSON FROM GRAVES COUNTY SAID THEY'VE BEEN WITH DCBS OVER OPPORTUNITY YEARS, SENT A LETTER FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL CAMERON WITH THEIR THOUGHTS AND SAID ONE OF THE MAIN ISSUE HAS BEEN LACK OF FRANK AND LOSING EXPERIENCED WORKERS.

AND THEN ANOTHER QUESTION TO US COMES FROM ELAINE STERLING FROM ELIZABETHTOWN, SAYS I'VE BEEN A SOCIAL WORKERS FOR SIX YEARS NOW.

I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHY SOCIAL WORKERS DON'T RECEIVE HAZARD PAY.

DEAN MILLER, SHOULD SOCIAL WORKERS RECEIVE HAZARD PAY?

>> ABSOLUTELY, THEY SHOULD.

I THINK ONE THINGS WE REALLY NEED TO THINK ABOUT IS HOW WE REFRAME THE WAY WE TALK ABOUT THE, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, SYSTEM IN TERMS OF RECOGNIZING THAT CHILD WELFARE IS NOT A SOMEONE ISSUE, IT'S AN EVERYONE ISSUE, AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE SOLUTION, AND INVESTMENT IN THE WORKFORCE IS FIEND INDEED PREVENTION.

AND I USE THE TERM "INVESTMENT" VERY INTENTIONALLY BECAUSE YOU REALLY BOILS DOWN TO A SIMPLE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE WANT TO VALUE KENTUCKY'S CHILDREN AND FAMILIES.

AND IF WE VALUE KENTUCKY'S CHILDREN AND FAMILIES, WE WILL INVEST IN THE WORKFORCE THAT CAN KEEP THEM SAFE AND PROTECTED.

AS A INVESTIGATE WORKER MYSELF, THERE'S NOTHING MORE FRUSTRATING THAN GETTING A REFERRAL, GOING TO AALAL SCHOOL, INTERVIEWING THREE OR FOUR KIDS, GOING INTO A HOME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DOOR BUT I DO IT BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE, AND THEN GOING BACK TO THE OFFICE AND LOOKING TO MAKE REFERRALS AND CALLS TO FAMILIES UP WITH SERVICES ONLY TO FIND NO SERVICES AVAILABLE.

AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE THINK ABOUT THE SYSTEMIC PIECE OF CHILD WELFARE AND THAT WE REFRAME TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE TO INVEST IN OUR WORKFORCE AS A FUNCTION OUR MATTER OF PREVENTION.

>> I WANT TO GO TO YOU, DR. GRIFFITHS, FROM WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY.

TERRY BROOKS, WHO I'M SURE YOU KNOW AND MOST PEOPLE ON THIS PANEL KNOW THEM.

YOU ADVOCATES FOR CHILDREN ONAL ALL KINDS ISSUES.

HE SAYS OTHER STATES HAVE EMPLOYED STRATEGIES LIKE FRONTLINE WORKER CAREER LAD WISHES DIFFERENTIATE PAY, AND A INTERDISCIPLINE LAROCHE.

WHAT OTHER STRATEGIES HE ASKED COULD BE KENTUCKYIZED, A KENTUCKY SPIN ON THOSE TO OBTAIN AND RECRUIT QUALITY WORKERS.

WHAT SUGGESTIONS DO YOU HAVE?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE ARE JUST -- WE NEED TO START BY LIKING WITH ABERDEEN MILLER AND MYSELF SAID, THIS DOES BELONG TO ALL OF US, I HAVE BEEN.

SPECIFIC STRATEGIES?

WELL, I THINK THAT THEY'RE REALLY LIMITLESS.

THE GREAT IDEA THAT WE CAN KIND OF POTENTIALLY SOLICIT FEEDBACK AND I'M AN EVIDENCE-BASED PERSON SO I DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS BUT I GUARANTEE I HAVE THE WORK ETHIC TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER TO FIND THOSE ANSWERS, SO THERE ARE STRATEGIES THAT THEY ARE USING IN CERTAIN AREAS.

WHAT WE COULD DO IS WE COULD LOOK A WHAT IS WORKING, AND IF IT'S A VIABLE INVESTMENT ON BEHALF OF FUNDS, WE COULD CERTAINLY USE THAT.

WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT AVENUES FOR END HANGS EDUCATION AND TRAINING.

WE KNOW THAT CAREER LADDERS IN THESE SORTS OF THING, LOOK, FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT WORK IN DCSB, SHOUT-OUT.

APPRECIATE Y'ALL.

MUCH LOVE TONIGHT AND ALWAYS.

BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES ON BEHALF OF THOSE THAT WORK IN DIFFERENT POSITIONS.

SO WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT AS WELL.

AND AGAIN, UNLESS YOU'VE WORKED IN FIELD, YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T KNOW THAT.

THIS IS IS NOT TO DIMINISH ANYTHING ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE THAT'S DOING GREAT WORK ON BEHALF OF FAMILIES AND CHILDREN, BUT WHEN WE SEEK THAT COMPREHENSIVE SOLUTION.

AND WE WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE THINGS EQUITABLE, WE HAD NEED TO RECOGNIZED THAT IT'S PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE ON IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, RISKING THEIR HEALTH AND SAFETY OUT IN POTENTIALLY -- IN A PLACE WHERE THEY'RE INSIDE OF HOMES AND DOING THIS TYPE OF WORK VERSUS SOMEONE WHO IS NOT.

SO THESE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE WOULD WANT TO CONSIDER AS WE SEEK TO DEVELOP EQUITABLE APPROACHES TO RECOGNIZED THAT CONTRIBUTION, AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S INEQUABLE APPROACH THAT WE'RE RIDING THAT CONTRIBUTION.

SO MOVING FORWARD I THINK THAT THE SKY'S THE LIMIT.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD TOGETHER, AND I WANT TO BE THE FIRST ONE TO ADVOCATE AND COLLABORATIVELY WORK TOGETHER ON BEHALF OF THE UNIVERSITY IS IF DIFFERENT AGENCY PARTNERSHIPS.

LET'S DO IT.

>> REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, MIRANDA COMBS WHO I KNOW YOU ARE IS A FOSTER AND ADOPTIVE PARENT LIKE YOURSELF ASKS HOW CAN WE CUT THE TIME THE CHILD IS IN THE SEDATE'S CUSTODY AND START THE PROCESS OF ADOPTION SOONER.

AND WASN'T THIS PART OF HOUSE BILL 1, IT WAS THAT 2018 OR SO?

SO IS THAT WORKING THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED?

>> WELL, WE'VE HAD A VERY LIMITED TIME PERIOD TO SEE IF THAT'S GOING TO WORK OR NOT.

YOU 2018 WAS WHEN THE BIM WAS IPAD.

I THINK THEY DELAYED IMPLEMENTATION UNTIL JANUARY OF 2019.

WE HAD ONE GOOD YEAR TO START BEING ABLE TO USE THAT PROCESS, AND THEN COVID HIT AND, OF COURSE, THE COURTS HAVE DELAYED SOME OF THOSE THINGS, HAVE SUSPENDED SOME OF THOSE LAWS AND THOSE REGULATIONS IN ORDER TO GET THE COURT SYSTEMS CLEARED OUT AND THE BACKLOG THAT WE HAVE WITH COVID NOW WHERE COURTS WERE SHUTS DOWN.

SOY WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN ALL THE INFORMATION AND THE DATA WE NEED TO.

I DIDIGE TALK GIANT AAL WHILE BACK THAT WAS ONE AT OF OF THE CHILD WELFARE COMMITTEES, AND SHE WAS DOWN IN THE BOWLING GREEN/GLASGOW AREA AND SHE USED THE TIMELINES WE HAD IN BILL ON MOST EPP EVERY DAYS AND SHE SAID IT HAD BEEN WORKING WELL.

WHEN SHE TUT PUT THE TIMELINES, SOCIAL WORKER ON THEIR CASE PLANS, PARENTS AND CHILDREN WERE BEING ABLE TO MOVE ON TO PERMANENCY A LITTLE FASTER.

>> A LITTLE FASTER MEANING WHAT?

>> WELL, SHE WAS SAYING THAT SHE COULD DO IT SEVERAL MONTHS FASTER.

I THINK RIGHT NOW THE AVERAGE, I THINK I SAW LAST MEETING WAS IT'S ABOUT A MONTH FASTER RIGHT NOW.

SO THAT'S STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE.

WE NEED TON MOVING THAT LONG FASTER.

BUT IF A PARENT IS WORKING THEIR CASE PLANS, AND THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY NEED TO DO, THEY NEED THAT EXTRA TIME, THAT 15 MONTHS OUT OF 48 MONTHS IS NOT ENOUGH TIME IN SOME SITUATIONS, AND THE COURT CAN DECIDE THAT.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE DID IN THAT BILL, WAS TO TRY TO MOVE THAT PROCESS ALONG.

BUT ONCE THAT PROCESS IS ESTABLISHED AND TPR HAS OCCURRED, WHETHER THAT'S VOLUNTARY OR INVOLUNTARY.

>> TERMINATION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS, RIGHT.

>> >> RIGHT.

THE ADOPTION PROCESS IS STILL THE SAME.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO TIMELINES THAT THE CABINET MUST ANITA IN THAT SITUATIONS LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, THEY HAVE TO COMPLETE A SUMMARY -- PRESENTATION SUMMARY PACKET WITHIN TEN DAYS AND PRESENT THAT TO THE COURT WITHIN 30 DAYS.

THAT'S NO HAPPENING IN MANY SITUATIONS.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS AGAIN IS LACK OF WORKERS THERE.

SO WE HAVE -- THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE NEED 23 NEED TO TAKE CARE OF WITH OUR FRONTLINE WORKERS AND WE NEED TO FOCUS ON PREVENTION SERVICES AND WHAT CAN WE DO TO THEM THOSE CHILDREN.

>> DEVIN RUHL, I THINK YOU WANTED TO WEIGH IN HERE.

DEVIN, WE'RE GOING TO FIXED YOUR AUDIO AND TRY TO GET BACK TO YOU IN A MOMENT.

EARLIER TODAY I HAD RECEIVED A TREAT FROM ROBIN OSBORN WHO LIVES IN MAYSVILLE AND SHE SAID SHE'D LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THE FOSTER CHILDREN THAT ARE ON SEVERAL PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS.

ONE FOR EACH NEW PLACEMENT, UofL DID A STUDY ABOUT THIS, A REPORT A FEW YEARS AGO.

DEBORAH YETTER, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?

>> YES, I DO KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.

THERE IS A HIGHER RATE IN KENTUCKY AND IN MANY STATES OF CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE ON WHAT THEY CALL PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS, POSSIBLY ANTI-ANXIETY MEDICATIONS, ANTI-DEPRESSANTS.

IMMUNE SYSTEM NOT SURE WHERE KENTUCKY STAND ON THAT RIGHT NOW.

I KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO REDUCE THE LEVEL OF KIDS ON PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS IN FOSTER CARE.

OFTEN THESE KIDS COME WITH SIGNIFICANT EMOTIONAL OR BEHAVIORAL ISSUES, BUT I THINK THERE IS A SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THAT THERE THEY'RE POSSIBLY OVERMEDICATED AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO TO REDUCE THAT AND FIND OTHER THE WAYS TO TREAT THE ISSUES THE CHILDREN ARE HAVING.

I REMEMBER THE UofL STUDY -- I'M NOTE SURE WHERE KENTUCKY STANDS NOW -- THAT WAS A GOOD FIVE OR TEN YEARS AGO.

>> DEVIN RUEL, ARE WE BACK WITH YOU?

WE'LL TYPE TRYING TO FIX HIS AUDIO.

I WANTED TO COME TO YOU, DEAN PILLAR MILLER, ABOUT THAT ISSUE OF OVERMEDICATING INTEREST IN FOSTER SYSTEM.

WHAT WOULD BE THE REASON FOR THAT.

THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT, MANY OF THESE CHILDREN, AND MAYBE THERE COULD BE BEHAVIORAL OR SUBSTANCE USE ISSUES MAYBE VICARIOUSLY FROM THEIR PARENTS.

DO YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT ON THAT?

>> SURE.

THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT LOOKS AT THE ISSUE OF MEDICATION AS IT RELATES TO KIDS IN OUT-OF-HOME CARE.

ACROSS THE DESCRIBE YOU SEE THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE TYPICALLY MEDICATED AT HIGHER RATES THAN THEIR PEERS, AND IT'S FOREL OF THE REASONS THAT DEBORAH DISCUSSED AND YOU SHARED IN TERMS OF BEHAVIOR ISSUES, ET CETERA.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALSO REALLY CONTRIBUTES TO THAT ISSUE IS KIND OF CONTINUITY OF PROVIDERS.

UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWING THAT AS THE YOUNG PEOPLE MOVE AROUND, THEYCH WILL CHANGE PROVIDERS OR BE IN A DIFFERENT SETTING OR SEE ANOTHER NURSE PRACTITIONER OR DOCTOR, ET CETERA, AND THAT MEANS THAT THEY GET PRESCRIBED A DIFFERENT MEDICATION OR THEY'LL TRY TO TWEET THIS OR GIVE THEM A CERTAIN PRESCRIPTION TO SEE IF THEY CAN HELP MITIGATE OR ASSUAGE A BEHAVIOR.

SO I KNOW THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT KENTUCKY HAS FOCUSED ON AS A RESULT OF THE STUDY OUT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE, AND I KNOW THAT CURRENTLY THERE'S DATA COLLECTION ONGOING TO LOOK AND ASSESS WHERE WE ARE IN RELATION TO OTHER STATES, AND SO IT IS A CHALLENGE, AND I KNOW FOLKS ARE INTERESTED IN ELK THATTING IT.

>> DR. GRIFFITHS, I WANT TO ASK YOU, WE HAD GOTTEN SOME CORRESPONDENCE EARLIER THAT HAD SAID THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CASELOAD, THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN A PARTICULAR SITUATION.

AND I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

AND WE ALSO HEAR OF, YOU KNOW, A KID THAT MAYBE IS FOUR YEARS OLD WHO HAS HAD FIVE DIFFERENT SOCIAL WORKERS OR CASEWORKERS.

AND IS THAT ALL ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE SOCIAL WORKER SHORTAGE OR IS THERE MORE TO THE STORY THAN THAT?

>> SO AS MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS IS CERTAINLY COMPLEX.

AND SO IF -- THERE'S A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING HERE.

ON ONE HAND, BECAUSE AS A FORMER WORKER I ALWAYS WANT TO SAY THIS THIS, CASES ARE QUITE DIFFERENT.

SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OFTEN INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE.

WE CALL THIS MAYBE PERFORMANCE P. SO IF YOU'RE LOW STAFF, YOU MIGHT ASK YOUR BEST WORKERS OR PEOPLE YOU HAVE FAITH IN TO TAKE THE MOST DIFFICULT OR CHALLENGING CASES.

SO THERE'S THAT GOING ON ON BEHALF OF THE WORKFORCE TRAUMA, THE WORKFORCE.

BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF CHILDREN HAVING MULTIPLE WORKERS, CERTAINLY THESE ARE THE IMPLICATIONS, AND THERE'S TONS OF RESEARCH HERE, ABOUT THE SERVICE DELIVERY, AND THE NEGATIVE OUTCOMES RELATED TOO TURNOVER AS IT IS.

SO CAN YOU ATTRIBUTE RESULT THAT TO THE OUTCOMES ON BEHALF TURNOVER?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

BUT YOU CAN CERTAINLY DRAW THAT CONNECTION.

THE RESEARCH IS VERY, VERY CLEAR.

AND AGAIN IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT AS WE MOVE FORWARD, PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF THIS.

I'M REALLY ENCOURAGED BY THIS PROGRAM TONIGHT AND THESE STROUDS THAT ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS WORK AND COMING TOGETHER BECAUSE FOR A LONG TIME IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN I WAS A WORKER FOR SEVERAL YEARS, A LOT OF THIS WAS OUT OF SIGHT AND OUT OF MIND, BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHY THERE'S A WORKFORCE SHORTAGE AND HIGH RATES OF TURNOVER MATTER, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IS CHILDREN THAT HAVE TO BUILD A BOND OR BUILD A CONNECTION WITH FOUR DIFFERENT WORKERS.

CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT?

A FAMILY, A PERSON, A PARENT TRYING TO RECONNECT OR REBUILD THESE INDIVIDUAL OR PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE OVER A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

AGAIN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, AND IT'S DETRIMENTAL.

SO, YES, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT SHARING THIS INFORMATION, TRYING TO PLACE YOURSELFIN INSIDE OF THIS CONTEXT AND THE SITUATION, THIS SYSTEM THAT'S ACTUALLY HOW IT IS WORKING RIGHT NOW AND HAS BEEN FOR A WHILE, HOPEFULLY THIS KIND OF RESONATES WITH FOLKS.

>> REAL QUICKLY, I WANT TO GO TO DEBORAH YETER AND THEN I WANT TO GET TO DEAN MILLER.

MS. YETER.

>> JUST A QUICK POINT ON THE WEIGHT OF CASES.

OFTEN THESE CASES CAN BE VERY COMPLEX, AND THE FACT THAT I WORKER MIGHT HAVE 30 CASES DOESN'T SHOW THE WHOLE STORY.

IF THEY'RE WORKING WITH SEVERAL CHILDREN IN THE HOME, A MOM, POSSIBLY A DAD, MAYBE GRANDPARENTS, ALL OF A SUDDEN INSTEAD OF ONE PERSON THEY COULD HAVE FIVE, SIX, SEVEN PEOPLE THEY HAVE TO KEEP CONTACT WITH IN FOLLOWING THAT CASE, SO WORKERS FORKERS I DO NOT HAVE BEEN ASKING TO HAVE CASES WEIGHTED BY THE MAGNITUDE OF THE WORK AND COMPLEXITY.

>> I THINK DEAN MILLER SHAKING HIS HEAD SO THIS IS SOMETHING YOU AGREE WITH WHOLE PARTED HEARTEDLY.

>> OH, YES.

AND WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE SKETCH CASELOAD BUT WHAT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IS CASE WEIGHT.

I DISTINCTIVELY REMEMBER A CASE THAT I HAD.

IT SHOWED ONE CHILD LIVING IN THE HOME.

I GET TO THE HIM AND THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT FAMILIES AND NINE DIFFERENT KIDS THERE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT COMES IN SHOWING AS ONE, BUT IT'S SO MUCH MORE COMPLEX ON THE BACK SIDE THAN THAT.

SO I THINK THATTITES RALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE FOCUS ON CASE WEIGHT AND THE COMPLEXITY THAT IT SAKES.

ONE THING THAT WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT A LOT IS THE FACT THAT THE CASES ARE MORE COMPLEX.

THERE ARE MORE INTERCEPTING ISSUES GOING ON WITH A LOT OF FAMILIES.

AND SO THOSE CASES TAKE LONGER TO WORK, AND THEY'RE MUCH MORE INTENSE WHICH CAN LEAD TO MORE STRESS, VICARIOUS TRAUMA, ET CETERA, FOR THE WORKERS.

IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT WE THINK ABOUT THAT CASE WEIGHT.

>> SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INTERSECTING FACTOR CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE SO PEOPLE AT HOME UNDERSTAND.

>> SO YOU MIGHT THINK ABOUT A CASE COMES IN AND YOU MIGHT BE DEALING WITH EDUCATIONAL NEGLECT, SO GETTING THE KIDS TO SCHOOL WHICH IS ALSO COMPLICATED BY SUBBED MISUSE OR COMPLICATED BY A RELATIVE PLACEMENT SITUATION THAT'S COMPLEX, AND SO THERE ARE A NUMBER DIFFERENT FACTOR THAT YOU KIND OF HAVE TO NOT ONLY ASSESS BUT THEN FINDING ADEQUATE AND APPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO.

SO AGAIN, THEY COME IN ONE WAY AND IT MIGHT LIST A REASON FOR THE REPORT, BUT YOU OFTEN FIND THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT REASONS, AND FRYING TO RESOURCE AND PUT TOGETHER A PLAN TO TEAM WITH THOSE, IT CAN BE DIFFICULT AND TIME-CONSUMING.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.

I THINK WE HAVE DEVIN RUEL BACK WITH US.

I THINK WE HAVE FOUND WITH YOU, SIR.

GO AHEAD WITH YOUR POINTS.

SORRY ABOUT THE LACK OF AUD YES.

>> THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

YOU WOULD THINK I WOULD GET USED TO THIS ZOOM AND SKYPE ENVIRONMENT.

AFTER ALL THIS TIME.

TO THE MAIN POINT THAT I REALLY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I AT LEAST DIDN'T LEAVE WITHOUT SAYING WAS THAT THERE ARE ACTUALLY SEVERAL POINTS, BUT THE BIGGEST I THINK IS LOGIC OVER MY NOTES HERE, IS THAT ULTIMATELY WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS WORK, AND I CAN'T IMAGINE MYSELF DOING ANYTHING ELSE.

I'M VERY DEDICATED TO WHAT I DO, AND ALL OF US ARE.

AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, AS A WORKER, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN DO THIS, IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY, IF YOU HAVE KIDS, IF YOU HAVE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.

I'VE BEEN BLESSED TO HAVE WONDERFUL SUPERVISORS.

AND ADMINISTRATORS THAT HAVE BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE OF US AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY HAVE BEEN, THEY CAN BE BECAUSE THEY DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW HOW TO FIX THE PROBLEM, EITHER.

THAT WAS KIND OF PART OF OUR -- OF THE REGION WHY I WROTE THE LETTER WAS IN -- REASON I WROTE THE LETTER WAS IN HOPES WE COULD FIND SOMETHING GET AND MAINTAIN A STAFF, AND WHAT I UNDERSTOOD FROM DR. GRIFFITHS WAS ABSOLUTELY ON TRACK.

FINDING WAYS TO LIKE IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF TRAINING AND HOW TO CASE WEIGHT AND JUST SO MANY THINGS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN YOU'RE DOLING BACK FROM THE STIFLEY LACK OF STAFF AT THE MOMENT -- STIFLING LACK OF STAFF AT THE MOMENT.

MY RUNNING THING IS I JUST, I REALLY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS INCLUDED IN THAT.

REPRESENTATIVE MEADE MENTIONED THERE MIGHT BE A DISPARITY IN PAY AND THE WITH SUPERVISORS AND WHATEVER, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD BE AS FAR AS SUPERVISORS SPECIFICALLY.

LIKE MY DIRECT SUPERVISOR, THEY WORK JUST AS HARD AS I DO, REST ASSURED.

AND EASILY MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH ALL THE CAUSES THAT PEOPLE LEAVE AND SO FORTH.

I WOULD HATE TO LEAVE THEM OUT.

OR THE FOLKS THAT WORK ON FAMILY SUPPORT THAT DO THE SNAP BENEFITS AND SO FORTH THAT ARE ANSWERING CALLS ALL DAY.

>> DEVIN, TO YOUR POINT, WE GOT A RESPONSE FROM SOMEONE FROM RADCLIFF WHO SAYS SHE'S A SOCIAL WORKER IN ELIZABETHTOWN.

I WORKPLACES US IN DANGEROUS SITUATIONS.

MANY PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING TO LEAVE ARE THERE ARE PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS THAT DO NOT HAVE THE SAME RISKS AND MUCH BETTER PAY AND THEY FACE SO MUCH TRAUMA AND DANGER.

AND IN YOUR PIECE YOU TALKED THE AVERAGE SOCIAL WORKER SALARY BEING BETWEEN $25,000 AND $35,000 YET YOU WOULD WORKER AT A RETAIL STORE AND MAKE MORE MONEY AND HAVE LESS OF THAT SECONDARY TRAUMA AND HAUF THOSE ASSOCIATED RISKS.

I WANT TO GET TO SOMETHING IN THE LAST THREE MINUTES THAT WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO SHELTER SHRIFT THIS AND I APOLOGIZE POPPET A GROWING SEND, SPEAKER TRO TEM MEADE, THAT CHILD PROTECTION AND THE CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM IS SOMETHING THAT IS BEING CONSIDERED AND DONE.

I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT IS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY LOOKING CLOSECLY AT PRIVATIZE 10 CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM IN KENTUCKY?

>> IN 2018 IN HOUSE BILL 1 I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE DISCUSSED.

THERE WAS A STUDY THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE TO LOOK AT PRIVATIZATION, AND I THINK THAT WAS COMPLETED AND GIVEN TO US.

I'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO LOOK AT THE POINTS THAT I HAD MADE.

BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE CONTINUED TO TALK ABOUT AND POSSIBLY PRIVATIZING MORE OF THE SYSTEM TO TRY TO TAKE SOME OF THAT BURDEN OFF OF THOSE SOCIAL WORKERS AND PUT MORE OF THE INVESTIGATION, LEAVE THE INVESTIGATION SIDE AT THE CABINET, BUT THEN THE SERVICE SIDE, BUT THAT WITH THOSE PROVIDED COMPANIES.

MANY TIMES WHEN YOU DO THAT, THOSE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS SEEM TO WORK OUT A LITTLE BIT BETTER BECAUSE THEY HAVE -- THE PRIVATE SIDE SEEMS TO HAVE MORE RESOURCES.

>> DEAN MILLER, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT APPROACH?

>> I THINK THAT IT CAN WORK, AND I THINK NOW A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF CHILDREN AND FAMILY SERVICES, THEY ARE CONTRACTED OUT WITH PRIVATE CHILD CARE FACILITIES, ET CETERA.

I THINK THAT WE DO WANT TO KIND OF ASSESS WHAT WORKS IN THOSE MODELS.

YOU KNOW, YOU TYPICALLY WILL SEE THOSE IN MORE URBAN AREAS, CHICAGO, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH SUN WHERE YOU SEE A OF THE LO THESE PARTNERSHIPS.

THEY ARE CERTAINLY PROMISING AND CAN WORK.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE MINDFUL ABOUT HOW WE WOULD IMPLEMENT, LOOK AT POLICY IN DIFFERENT PLACES BUT I THINK AT THIS POINT WE NEED TO INNOVATE AND RECOGNIZE THAT THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH A DIFFERENT TYPE OF WORKFORCE AND THAT'S GOING TO MEAN WE NEED TO EXPLORE ALL THE SOLUTIONS.

>> REPRESENTATIVE MEADE, REAL QUICKLY, JUDGING FROM THIS CONVERSATION, WHAT'S AN IDEA THAT COMES TO YOUR MIND ABOUT WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY CAN DO WHEN YOU CONVENE IN JANUARY OF 22?

>> AGAIN, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT OUR SOCIAL WORKERS AND FRONTLINE WORKS AND TRY TO MAKE THAT JOB A LITTLE BIT MORE BENEFICIAL, SO THAT WE HAVE TAKE A LOOK AT A THINGS LIKE WHEN THEY'RE IN THOSE TRAUMATIC SITUATIONS, WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM SOME PAID TIME OFF.

WE ALSO HAVE TO PROVIDE THOSE MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES THATEE NEED WHEN PLACED IN THOSE SITUATIONS.

>> I APPRECIATE YOU ALL BEING HERE TONIGHT.

I WANT TO THANK ALSO DEVIN RUEL, DR. GRIFFITHS AT WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITIES.

GO TOPS, TOPPERS.

I'M A PROUD HILLTOPPER THERE.

AND DEB YEAH RAW YETTER WITH THE COURIER-JOURNAL WHO IS THE WORK HAS BROUGHT A LOT OF LIGHT AND FOCUS TO THIS ISSUE SO WE THANK YOU, MA'AM, FOR YOUR WORK TO HELP SPUR THIS CONVERSATION THROUGHOUT THE YEARS NAACP FOR WATCHING TONIGHT.

AND JOIN BILL BRYANT AND A PANEL OF WORKING JOURNEYS TO DISCUSS THE NEWS OF THE WEEK.

"COMMENT ON KENTUCKY" FRIDAY AT 8 EASTERN SEVEN CENTRAL ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

NEXT MONDAY MIGHT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ABORTION RIGHTS AND RESTRICTIONS.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO MISS THAT PRM robot.

And you can call 1-800-494-7605.

Welcome to all of our guests.

####