>> Hi, I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur, and welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds and leaders in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

And in this episode, we sit down with Dr. Ivan Joseph, former professor, award-winning coach, and cultural transformation expert to break down the science of self-confidence, how to overcome the opinions and judgments of others so that you can improve your life.

I'm so glad you're here today, so let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪ ♪ How do you determine what your values and principles are when you're not sure?

>> Ah, it's a good question.

I'm going to walk you through a little exercise.

I call it my purpose exercise.

In the last 18 months, what's the most important decision you've made?

I'll do mine.

Right?

And we'll share it for 30 seconds.

In the last 18 months, you know, I got to be careful with this one, but I've made a decision, right, to take the vice president's job at Dalhousie University.

I was the king of my fiefdom.

I had all the freedom, all the things I want.

And I made a decision to take that job, boom.

>> A decision I made was to get into a relationship.

>> Ahh.

>> Yeah, a new relationship in the last 18 months, yeah.

>> You got now seven words, only seven, to tell me why you made that decision.

And so, I could be nice and fluffy.

I had -- It was time for a new challenge.

Seven words.

I could say "I had outgrown the job."

Right?

"I was bored."

Whatever it is, but seven words.

>> She made me a better version of myself.

>> Oh, nicely done.

>> I don't know if that was seven.

>> Yeah, that was pretty close.

Why her?

So, for me, why this job, right?

People told me I couldn't do it.

The one word, and it's got to be a value, the challenge.

>> Mm.

>> Right?

The challenge.

>> One word, why her?

>> Yeah.

>> Vision.

>> Right?

>> Five years ago, I had done a guided visualization of the dream person I wanted to be with, and she was the image of that.

>> So now, we've just found two values, right?

For one of my values is challenge.

>> Mm.

>> One of your values is growth, vision, whatever that word is.

You saw it.

And so, when you start asking yourselves these questions, what's the most important decision you made in work, what's the most important decision you've made in your family, what's the most important decision you did for yourself, right?

What's the most important decision you make when taking on a conflict?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Those help -- That's the exercise I do.

>> Help in your values.

>> To help me find my north stars.

>> Interesting.

>> And whenever those things are in alignment, happiness, confidence, success, performance goes up.

When they're not, sick days go up, disease goes up, conflict arises.

>> Poor choices, yeah.

>> Right?

And so those are the things you need to think about.

Now, that's the exercise I use.

But I find it very, very helpful.

>> How do we lie to ourselves in a positive way to set ourselves up for success or accomplishing our dreams?

If I have -- I've been doubting myself for a long time.

And, you know, I've got no money and I've got no skills, flunked out of college, whatever it is, but I got this big dream and I'm gonna do this thing.

Like, is that actually realistic to say those things or how do I then use that dream and that image in my mind of what I want to create and who I'm going to become, how do I then apply that into life to actually making it come true when it seems so far away?

>> Ah, I love this.

So, I will say this.

Everybody's dreams are lies because they don't exist.

>> Mm.

>> Right?

Everybody's dreams are -- They're just making that up.

That's why they're dreams.

And so the difference, though, between people who are successful or not is how they choose to pursue those dreams.

So let's just say I had a dream to become an Olympian.

I always, in my mind, picture that dream on the top of a staircase, and I have these series of steps that go down.

>> Mm.

>> And every step represents a quantifiable, smart goal that I'm going to put on there.

>> Mm!

>> Right?

>> Speaking my language 'cause I would frame my dreams and goals.

>> 100%.

So, my -- I'm going to get out of bed every day and exercise for 30 minutes.

I'm going to get out of bed.

>> That's step one.

>> Exactly.

>> Wow.

>> What's step two?

I'm going to get out of bed every day, right, and I'm going to find myself a coach.

>> Mm.

>> Step number three -- I'm going to find the best person in my field, and I'm going to be relentless and pursue them and train with them.

If that means I got to pick up their shoes, if that means I got to clean their toilet, whatever that is, and that is you start putting those steps in there.

Now, when you put those steps in and be like, "Oh, success came," no.

You're going to say no, right?

But now you got to say, "Stop."

Don't let that come in.

That's where you use the power of affirmations.

"Stop."

We talk in psychology about this thing called centering, physical actions that you'll see athletes do.

>> Like a trigger.

>> Yes.

>> Like a snap of a rubber band.

>> Stop the negative stuff.

>> A slap in the face, whatever it is, right?

>> Deep breath in.

"You got this."

Right?

Whatever that is, whatever it is, because you're going to be on your step, your first -- "I didn't get up today."

You start again tomorrow.

>> So you need that mantra or positive affirmation or stopping process and then a mantra, right?

>> Yes.

>> You got to stop and add a positive affirmation.

>> Make it automatic and recognize that it's a skill.

Get your three.

"You got this.

I work harder than anybody.

Nobody outworks me.

I can learn everything."

Whatever it is, get it ready, and then figure out what your trigger is going to be.

Don't mix it all up.

Get your trigger.

A friend of mine, when he was trying to quit smoking, he put it -- his hand was always in there 'cause he always jingled coins.

Another person -- always their key chain, shake, shake.

And then it becomes automatic, becomes automatic and that's where you want it to be.

"I got this.

You can't beat me, cigarettes.

No, no, no, not today."

>> Mm.

>> Whatever that might be.

But recognize how important it is to ladder up that step because if you put that big dream up there, it becomes so overwhelming.

"Where am I going to start?

Oh, my gosh."

The tiniest step is the one that moves us towards our goal.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> The tiniest step.

>> And then do you celebrate after you reach the next step or how do you...?

>> You've been studying.

[ Both laugh ] >> I feel like I've studied a lot of sports psychology just through the practice of sports and then reading a lot of books and interviewing a lot of people, but I always love everyone's take on it.

>> This is, I think, a mistake that people make, is they don't take a moment to make the celebrations.

And so they don't ever get to reward.

I just tweeted the other day somebody who graduated from university, and I said, "Savor the moment."

>> Mm.

>> Your person from Yale, she will speak about savoring.

That's a big component about happiness.

And savoring means living it, feel it, relish it, embrace it.

You know when sometimes it's cold and you want to just get out in the sun, and you're just like, "Ahh," and you just feel it?

That's savoring.

>> Yeah.

>> Pausing, slowing down, engulfing it.

It's almost like when something's happening.

Like, pull yourself out and just watch yourself with your friends and appreciate it.

>> Because those moments don't happen that often.

>> No.

>> You've got to really create those little moments every day in order to make them happen.

I remember when I -- My whole dream was to be an All-American athlete growing up, and when I took on the goal of doing this in the decathlon, I told you before the show a little bit that I had six months to train for the decathlon in my senior year.

I decided to do it my senior year.

I waited.

>> Yeah.

>> And I remember I got -- The top eight are All-Americans in track and field in each event.

And I got eighth place, and I remember, like, my whole life, I've been dreaming about this.

I spent six months of sacrificing all sugar, waking up at 6:00 a.m., falling on my back on the pole vault, and all these different heartaches over the last six months.

And I finally was on the podium, holding the trophy -- I have the trophy in the other room still -- and was like so happy, and then, 10 minutes later, I was miserable.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And I found every reason why I wasn't good enough, why I should've gotten sixth place or how I messed up this event and how I didn't do this right, and I put myself down more and more and continued to beat myself up.

And I was like, "You know what?

I'm going to go after the next goal because I don't feel the way I want to feel, so I got to go achieve something greater and bigger to believe in myself more."

And I kept doing that and realizing no matter how much I achieve or accomplish, I need to savor those moments of celebration not even just at the end of the celebration or the end of the goal but each step along the way I need to celebrate because it's not about the end.

>> Mm-hmm.

You have a thing what we -- I would identify you with a thing what we call maladaptive perfectionism in the world of sport.

So, we all -- Perfectionism is a good thing, right?

Until it becomes a bad thing.

>> Obsessive.

[ Laughs ] >> Right?

>> Painful.

>> And so when perfectionism hinders your ability to have joy, to move on, to pursue something because of your fear of failure or you're never good enough or you can't relish your accomplishment, it becomes maladaptive.

>> What's maladaptive mean?

Bad?

Bad adaptive?

>> Yes, right?

It's bad for your skills.

>> Uh-huh.

>> It sucks.

>> Yes.

>> And then it inhibits you.

And you'll see this in a lot of high-performing athletes who are driven to excellence that that perfectionism becomes so debilitating that they can't perform and they spiral out.

>> They can't get in the flow, yeah.

>> Flow.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> Right?

>> They can't get in the flow.

>> Yeah.

>> They can't be present because they're so anxious and worried about everything else.

>> I once had an athlete who his game just started going down further and further.

Every time he had a mistake, "Oh, gosh."

I remember he's like, "Well, I think I should make 9 out of 10 passes, 10 out of 10 passes."

And I remember taking him and putting Roy Keane, a famous footballer on TV, and showed him how Roy Keane made 4 out of 10 passes, 5 out of 10 passes, the very best footballer in the world, and you, 19-year-old kid, wants to make 10 out of 10?

>> Yeah, good luck.

>> Changed his mind-set.

It allowed him to let go of being excellent.

Because if you're perfect -- you could be -- but then you're not stretching.

You're in some place that's comfortable where you can be good and excellent.

But if you're moving forward and you're driving to these new places where the skill is novel to you, you're a new boss, you're a new leader, of course you're going to screw up, right?

That is the example of you pursuing excellence.

>> Yeah, you need to fail in order to grow.

You need to mess up over and over again to then see and adapt and change and get the feedback necessary to improve.

>> Yes.

>> It's part of the process.

You have to fail over and over again.

>> Amen.

>> It's how you handle it with a positive affirmation as opposed to "I suck, I'm stupid, I'm horrible, I'm never going to be good enough."

It's how you change that.

What about this situation when you don't have the skills or the repetitions, you haven't done the steps, but you've got a big opportunity that just came on your lap.

You've got an interview for something you're really excited about.

You've got your first date of your dream girl, whatever it is.

You've got this moment and you're like, "Man, but I don't have the reps.

I don't have the preparedness.

I don't have the confidence.

I don't have the skills."

Do you just say, "Ah, I'm not going to go into this" and "I'm not going to take on the challenge or the speech in front of an audience when I haven't practiced?"

How do we lie to ourselves in a positive way to get through that moment and do the best we can without falling on our face?

>> It's a good question because what your level of preparation in terms of readiness for the event versus my level will always be different.

You might've done a thousand repetitions and I did 10,000, and I'm still not ready.

So this is true no matter who you are, no matter where you're going into that new and novel situation.

And one of the things you have to let go of is being perfect.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> When you set yourself up to go into that event and think that perfection is the only way to excel, to measure success, it will never happen.

One of the things I've always said to myself is "this is a process.

What am I here to learn?"

>> Mm.

>> And so that is one of the questions I always tell myself.

>> But this is a big moment.

This is the opportunity.

It came to me.

What if I fail?

>> And you're going to.

[ Chuckles ] Embrace failure because that is not the outcome that measures your success.

>> Mm.

>> If you come into something and say success is only if I don't make a blunder, when you make the failure -- >> You're done.

It's over.

You might as well give up.

>> Exactly.

And so, reflect on it.

It is the reflection after the event.

"I am in this.

I know I'm not ready, but there's lots to learn from me going now.

And when I do this, I will now be better prepared for the next time."

>> Yeah.

>> I'm a new vice president.

I've been I will say average at best.

"Oh, I screwed this up, screwed this up.

I got to do this better next time."

That's always in my head, is "Man, these are great teachable moments.

The next university that gets me for a vice president is going to be really lucky."

>> Mm-hmm.

>> What am I saying?

>> [ Laughing ] The next one.

>> Right?

What am I saying?

See how I'm interpreting that feedback?

>> It's all interpretation.

Life is an interpretation.

>> This is true.

So, confident people, they interpret feedback differently.

>> So true.

You're speaking like a self-help coach, you know?

>> I'm a sports psychologist.

I can't help it.

>> But interpretation, I mean, I've studied this emotional intelligence training for a long time out of need of suffering and pain and holding on to past hurts and not healing and trauma and all these things where, you know, I realized the interpretation of being sexually abused as a kid, holding on to that for 25 years as this horrible, painful thing is what kept me down.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But when I flipped the interpretation and said, "Yeah, this sucked, and I don't wish it on anyone, but what did I gain from this and what value did it bring to my life and how can I improve and make sure this doesn't happen to any other young boy out there in the world?

What content can I provide and how can I become a better human being because of it?"

That interpretation switch gives me more joy, more passion, more love, happiness as opposed to holding on to a negative story interpretation and making that my life.

>> Yes.

And recognize that you are doing what's known as protective factors to protect yourself from the trauma that that caused.

And when you were able to get and embrace that conversation, you know, I can't speak for yourself, but I'm assuming you were able to let go and move forward and through it.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

And it takes -- It can take you a long time if you continue to hold on to that.

You're never going to be truly fulfilled if you hold on to that.

So you've got to learn how to interpret things differently.

"My girlfriend broke up with me."

You've got to learn how to say, "This is a blessing, not a painful thing," even if it.

"Someone died in my life.

This is horrible.

How can I celebrate their life and not hold on to the pain forever?"

It's all about interpretation.

Guy Winch -- I don't know if you studied Dr.

Guy Winch -- he talked about rumination, like holding on to rumination of anything -- small, big, or in between -- and grieving, you know, holding on to this for a lifetime, of ruminating on something that you did wrong or that didn't work out well or what you forgot to do.

That rumination process will continue to make you doubt yourself in everything you do if you're holding on to it forever.

So what's the greatest single skill in developing self-confidence?

>> Ooh, that's a good question.

I will say the thought stopping, because thoughts are beliefs and actions.

Can I give you a little example of thought stopping?

>> Yes.

>> So, I want you -- we'll pretend like the camera is not there.

I want you to share with me, for 30 seconds, a powerful story, something you're really proud of achieving.

>> I was in my young 20s and I was terrified of salsa dancing.

>> Oh.

>> I'm a tall white guy and a different culture and a different language and a different style of dance that I've ever seen.

And so, when I went to a salsa club for the first time, by accident, and so I was the only white guy and it was all Latinos dancing and having this incredible time with something I didn't know what I was doing, I was terrified of -- I was terrified of it.

And I would go every week for three months and not try at all until I finally got the courage to try it one time.

And when I -- >> Stop there.

>> Yep.

>> Right, I just want to think about how bad you were.

I want you to hold up your hand, right or left hand.

Which one, left hand?

Is that your strong hand?

>> It's my weaker hand.

>> Whichever is your stronger hand.

>> Okay.

>> And I'm going to push it down but don't let me push it down.

>> Okay.

>> Ready?

>> [ Laughs ] >> [ Grunting ] Excellent, excellent.

Alright.

Man, you're not bad.

Alright.

>> [ Laughs ] >> Now I want you -- >> I just lifted the other day so I'm sore.

>> I want you to tell us the last time you screwed up.

>> Last time I screwed up.

>> So is this about fear?

The other one was almost -- You didn't even get to your really strong part yet of your story, but last time you screwed up.

>> Last time I screwed up.

Um... >> Hold it.

Don't tell me.

Now I want you to think about the last time you cried.

>> Oh, the last time I cried.

Okay.

>> Now I want you to think -- close your eyes.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And I want you to think about the worst thing that you do that you wouldn't tell anybody about.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Ready?

Keep that in your mind.

Hold out your right hand.

>> Eyes closed?

>> Yep.

>> Okay.

>> Don't let me push it down.

Think of that thing.

>> [ Laughs ] >> What just happened there?

>> Okay.

So holding the negative thought in my mind, how does that...?

>> I want now not to leave you there.

>> Uh-huh.

>> So give me three things about yourself that you love.

>> I'm passionate, I'm loving, I'm wise.

>> Right.

And I will say this.

You are warm, you're engaging, and you're a very -- you're probably one of the best hosts that I've ever had.

>> Oh, thank you.

>> I've done lots of podcasts.

>> Thank you.

>> Hold your hand up.

>> [ Laughs ] >> Right?

Ready?

[ Grunts ] What just happened there?

>> Right.

It's changing the thought process.

>> That wasn't about strength.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> I just went there and tore you.

I went right to your heart.

And people don't understand how important that thought is.

People think, "That was voodoo?"

Imagine what just happened.

Did your eyes start to water?

Did your heart rate change?

Did your chemical reaction change?

Toxins?

Your whole body shifted because I induced your greatest and worst thing that you don't want to share with anybody.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And I don't know what it is and I'm not asking, but what I'm saying to yourself is this.

If you carry that around all the time, what would you become?

>> The bad stuff?

You'd be super weak and sad and emotional.

>> You would never take risks.

>> Right.

>> That wasn't -- "I'm not going to be able to lift dumbbells?"

No.

>> Right, right, right.

>> Right?

You would not be able to take risks.

You would never put yourself out there because you would be afraid of failure when you think you were -- So when you asked me what's the most important thing that you can do to build your self-confidence?

Change your thoughts.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Right?

>> Stop living in the moments of your failure or what everybody else thinks of you.

"I'm good at this."

And then as soon as I just changed that, bam.

I didn't even get to the best part of your warm story the first time.

>> Right, right.

>> Right?

It's like no, stop it there.

You was like, "I wasn't that good.

I was okay.

But then when I did it --" You were about to say "I was amazing."

I didn't want to do it because I know you've been hitting the weight room.

I needed to have a little bit of movement.

>> For sure, yeah.

>> That's a long answer to your question.

>> No, I think what I'm hearing you say is the greatest skill is to have the skill of positive thought or changing thoughts in any moment that might be holding you back or tearing you down.

It's the ability to think in a clear, positive way towards what you're proud about yourself as opposed to what you're unproud of yourself, towards what you're capable of instead of what you lack, towards your vision instead of towards your failures.

When we think of those things consistently on a daily basis, we're going to become stronger every single day.

>> Perfect.

>> The ability to acquire the skill of having positive thinking is challenging for so many.

Why is it so challenging to have positive thinking skills consistently?

>> Well, I think it's this.

If you look at the society that we live in, it's all about competition and we're always paired up in a way where we compare ourselves to anybody.

Humans somehow are conditioned to never be content.

>> Why is that?

>> I don't know.

It's the million-dollar question.

>> [ Laughs ] >> Right?

But for some reasons -- >> Even Canadians?

You guys aren't able to be content?

>> Oh, God bless the Canadians, right?

God bless the Canadians, but yes, we are never content.

And so your question really is, is why are we never happy and can't put the positive thoughts in?

Because we're always looking at what we do not have.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> We are always looking over the next hill, the next goal, the next obstacle.

And that leaves us always feeling as if we have not created fulfillment or we've not achieved.

And it's part of what drives ambition, but it's also what allows us never to really appreciate the moment that we're in.

>> This is a question I ask everyone at the end called the Three Truths.

>> Yeah.

>> So imagine it's your last day on Earth many years from now and you've accomplished every dream you have.

But for whatever reason, you got to take all your content, all your body of work with you to the next place.

And you get to leave behind three things you know to be true that would be the lessons that we would have from you but we wouldn't have any other content from you because it would all be taken with you to the next place.

And these would be your three lessons to the world and to us.

What would you say are your Three Truths?

>> Ooh.

One, what you tell yourself, you become.

Right?

Number two, work ethic will set you up for success over talent every day.

And three, and it's very related to the first one.

But your thoughts influence your beliefs, which influence your actions.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Right?

Those are the three that I would leave with.

>> Yeah.

Fourth one -- love yourself.

>> I was gonna just say that.

How did you know that?

>> Is that what you were gonna say?

>> Yeah.

I was just gonna say if I could get a fourth one, it would be love yourself.

How did you know that?

Did you just read it?

>> Uh, prac-- repetition.

>> [ Laughs ] >> Not intuition.

Repetition.

>> I love it.

Repetition.

>> I feel it all goes back into loving yourself.

If you can think a certain way, you'll feel a certain way, and that'll be loving towards yourself, and if we can love ourselves every single day and every moment in the good and the bad, it's like we set ourselves up for success.

If we hate ourselves, it's gonna be hard.

>> Yeah.

>> It's gonna be an unfulfilling life.

>> I almost want to say love yourself as you would love others.

>> Ooh.

>> Right?

Take it back to the old book.

>> Think about the person you love the most in your life and then treat yourself the same way.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Good questions.

Ooh!

You made me think there.

>> I want to acknowledge you for a moment and I want to acknowledge you for showing up, for flying here and showing up in the middle of all this craziness and for putting yourself out there consistently.

You did this TED Talk I think eight to nine years ago on a whim, and you showed up.

You weren't prepared, and that one decision you made led to impacting millions of people's lives around the world, and then impacting more people from this information, from having this knowledge, and I think this knowledge, when used the right way, can be extremely powerful, and the work that you've done your entire life, the failures, the successes, have brought you to this place where you can share this information.

The research, the working harder than everyone else has gotten you to the position, so I acknowledge you for all the gifts that you have, of showing up in a powerful way and giving us this insight.

I think it's going to truly transform a lot of lives, and I appreciate the work you put in.

>> My pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

You made this easy, so thank you for the kind words.

>> It's a fun topic.

This is the final question.

It's called what's your definition of greatness?

>> Oh, man.

I will say this.

I want to leave this place better than I found it.

Right?

And so that's for my family, my kids, the people I have served as a coach and an educator.

Leave this place better than you found it.

>> There you go.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate it.

>> My pleasure.

>> We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable for your life.

Make sure to stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes, and if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website, lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course "Find Your Greatness" is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

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