(Music plays) >> History as McCarthy is ousted as speaker.

Victoria Spartz threatens resignation, plus gubernatorial candidates on LEAP and more.

From a television studios at WFYI, it's Indiana Week In Review for the week ending October 6, 2023.

>> Indiana Week In Review is made possible the supporters of Indiana Public broadcasting stations.

>> This week, US has voted 262 210 in favor of a motion to California Republican Kevin McCarthy from his position as speaker.

The first time in history a US has speaker has been ousted that way.

>> McCarthy's ouster was led by Florid Republican Matt Gaetz, who along with seven other Republican members of obituary with McCarthy as speaker along with all Democrats present.

Gaetz said it was McCarthy's decision to join the Democrats on a short-term deal to keep the government funded that with motion to vacate.

All seven Indiana Republican representatives voted to keep McCarthy in the pool, while the Hoosier state to Democrats voted to remove him.

While representative Patrick McHenry is interim speaker, it is unclear who will replace McCarthy long-term.

Indiana Congressman Jim Bates has thrown his support in early for Ohio Republican Jim Jordan.

>> Will be the political follow from this week's chaos in the house?

That is the first question for our Indiana Week In Review panel.

Democrat Ann DeLaney.

Republican Mike O'Brien.

Jon Schwantes host of Indiana Lawmakers, and Niki Kelly, editor in chief of the Indiana Capital Chronicle.

I am Indiana Public Broadcasting Statehouse Bureau chief Reagan Smith.

Ann DeLaney, if you are a has Democrat, would you have voted to keep Kevin McCarthy as speaker?

Given what is likely to cup, I am imagining you will be more of a fan of who is the next speaker then you were Kevin McCarthy?

Was it worth it for Democrats to keep him in power?

>> I don't think they could vote for him.

Obviously, he is no Nancy Pelosi, but on top of that, he does not know how to lead.

He sold his soul to the right wing magnet Republicans to get the power.

It was guarantee from the beginning that any kind of compromise to keep the government going, to deal with the problems we face, we are going to be doomed by those eight or 10 crazy people on the public inside.

I don't know what they will do with this.

The chaos is not over, because there are people putting themselves forward like Jim Jordan, I mean they are a disgrace to the House of Representatives.

I don't know what the publicans are going to do, they are showing people of the country that they cannot govern.

I think it will cost them the majority and is a good thing it does.

>> I asked the question, what is going to be the political fallout from this?

I don't think the next speaker of the house is going to be more moderate than tenant McCarthy, at least does not seem that way right now.

It looks like it might be Jim Jordan.

Donald Trump is throwing his support behind Jordan.

Jim Banks was ahead of that.

>> Absolutely.

>> Is this going to be trouble for House Republicans in swing districts next fall?

>> There is not a lot of those left.

>> 17 of them.

>> Is a narrow majority.

>> You can look back at McCarthy and said you should have never put that deal.

Does he get in on the 15th vote or no vote?

It is easy to look back and say you never should have done that.

>> To be fair, I don't think in hindsight, there were people at the time saying this will not turn out well.

>> 100%.

In that, is it better to go out?

I am walking away, I cannot get the vote.

Or is it better to not be elected speaker and I will try to figure this out from within?

Which is not unusual.

Not a rational decision.

Yes, this is historic but also no one has ever agreed to that before.

You have a one-man team can cut the head of the off.

And, it is like a Rubik's cube of rational political decision-making.

The hardliners now go against their own caucus because there caucus said the government's will keep Democrats open.

When they post their own speaker, it is chaotic.

Now you layer on top of that, here comes the presidential field that is taking out who the next, we are making trump the speaker.

It seems unlikely.

>> It is hard to see a path forward.

These decisions become the establishment.

They are not the radicals, now the establishment that is pulling the strings has fallen apart.

>> I mean, there is supposed to be about next week for the speaker.

I don't know if the boat will take place, or if it does, if we are going to have a new speaker of the house.

Let's not forget that in about 40 days or less, we have to figure out whether or not we are going to keep the government going or not.

>> Support Ukraine, support border security which might be tied together.

>> Is there going to be business done in the US House of Representatives for the future?

>> I like the analogy of the Rubik's cube.

>> Some bright kid somewhere can usually do it blindfolded, upside down with his feet or her feet.

I don't think 435 people in the house and Senate, 535 at the house and Senate, if you look at all Congress as a whole, will be able to solve this.

It seems unlike the Rubik's cube stop there is no step two.

>> There is no step two, no guide to instructions.

We are clearly in uncharted water.

I think several things you ask about the upshot.

We will probably see some rule changes so you cannot have one person guillotine anymore, maybe be difficult.

>> There were plenty of it presented Dave's saying you keep that or I am not going to vote for you as speaker.

>> I grant you that.

If anybody is unpopular right now, within both caucuses, probably the house, it is probably Matt Gaetz.

>> We go back to the House of Commons.

We are just going to reorganize.

>> It is sort of the parliamentary system.

The other thing, we are going to see lipservice.

We are already seeing to the notion of pragmatism.

We are tired of the circus.

We are going to get things done.

Easy to say, much tougher to do.

>> In terms of what this means for next fall, part of the calculation I have Democrats might most likely be if we let them go to pieces, it will make our jobs that much easier, fall 2024, to make the case they cannot be allowed to govern.

Do you think that is some of what is going on here?

>> I think maybe.

A year is a long way away at politics.

Now we are going to have Fox News debate of the house speaker candidates.

That just came out today.

It will debate next week.

How speaker candidates.

That is fascinating.

I saw someone say, and I think this was an excellent point.

Kevin McCarthy's mistake was he trying to govern.

It is kind of true.

He put that deal together at the last minute to keep the country from shutting down, and it was all over from there.

>> Which argues that is not what they want to do.

>> As long as the Republican caucus allows them to determine... >> The problem is, they don't have the majority.

They have such a small majority that they are almost... >> That is when you have an adult to interrupt Democrats about forging a coalition which McCarthy would not do.

>> Which is what he did Saturday.

>> They came through.

>> You talk about cracking down on these Republicans.

What are you going to do?

The talk this week was consider maybe perhaps the way of notion of kicking him out of the Congress.

They get an extra hour on the calendar, because they don't have to go to a meeting every Wednesday.

>> Deal it would face, you don't re-date like McCarthy did.

You come up with a governing coalition.

>> That would be... Nowadays, that would be the best.

>> Of course in this environment, the Democrats were to sign with the hardline right take the speaker.

>> Cannot trust McCarthy.

He reneged on the deal after what, four months?

You cannot trust him.

>> Time for viewer feedback.

Each weekly post an unscientific poll question.

This week's question is, should Democrats have helped keep Kevin McCarthy in the US how speaker ship?

A, yes, B, no.

Last week would be to blame if there had been a government shutdown stop 76% said the Republican's, 21% said both parties.

If you would like to take part in the poll, go to WFYI.org/IWIR.

John referenced referring to the house as a circus earlier.

US representative Victoria Spartz is threatened to resign if Congress does not create a commission this year to study ways to reduce the national debt.

Spartz vented her frustration in the statement this week calling Congress a circus a complete absence of leadership, vision, and spine.

>> Political scientist Andrew Downs says Spartz is concerned about the debt are not new.

The surprise he says is the threat.

>> And the threat I think comes across from many as an escalation or elevation of frustration.

She clearly has been feeling.

She already she will not run for reelection.

She expressed lack of movement and productivity in the chamber at that time.

>> Starts excited struggles with being away from her high school age children when she announced she would not run for reelection.

He referenced her kids again in a threat to resign.

Downs says those struggles are legitimate and it is fair to ask whether Spartz is looking for a way to step down early.

>> She is really frustrated, erratically she should say I am out.

>> If Spartz designs, the government would have to call a special election to fill her seat.

With a slim GOP majority in the house, losing a Republican member for a little bit of time makes the threat more potent.

>> Mike O'Brien, how seriously should her constituents and us take this resignation threat?

>> We have been having public statements all week.

She was in the press a lot.

This has been culminated in this kind of ultimatum or threat, so there was nothing she sent all week or in recent weeks that leads me to believe she is not frustrated enough to walk away.

If you are trying to keep that as leverage to get some policy goal, it undercuts... >> For the people who maybe are not standing in the way, ...

It is fine for you to accomplish your public policy in, what a great deal for them.

You are going home and I can do what I want which is not you want anyway.

That is fine.

I don't think there is a lot of disagreement of what she said and when she sent it.

I think a lot of people were feeling that way.

I would hope she would see it through so we are not in another one of these scenarios where we are having to go find somebody.

We are just taking out another leg of the process.

>> Yeah, I noted in the piece, but we just talked about how narrow this house majority is in how much pressure that is putting on the ability of the house and house Republican caucus to do anything.

That makes this print more potent.

Is this one-vote... >> One-vote matters more than usual.

One-vote matters a lot.

>> One-vote matters.

Vote, if she is there or is gone that the fact the majority is so narrow, it makes no difference.

She had the opportunity to be a champion for Ukraine.

Stand up and carry the water on that issue.

Instead, she felt so sympathetic to Pugin, that she backed off.

-- Putin.

The idea she is the successor is appalling to me.

They gave her the Centerview at the house.

Did not give it to her.

She had to fight hard not caucus.

Yes, in the caucus.

Come on.

When the race was close for her house seat, they created a district for that even she cannot lose.

She walks away from it.

It is ridiculous.

I don't care how frustrated she is.

She has a duty to represent the people who voted for her and to finish out that term.

If she doesn't, shame on her.

>> Here politicians constantly say "I'm stepping away to spend more time with my family."

So much so, we have trouble believing it nowadays.

This is incredibly real.

She has two high school age daughters and they decided, they made the decision they would stay back here in Indiana when she is in DC with her husband, their dad.

That has been for the ark for the family.

That is why she is not going to run for reelection.

Should she stick out this last year or so?

>> Look, I don't think personally about family situation.

That is no different than any other of the 435 members.

I am very big on fulfilling your commitments.

I understand things happen, but to me, that statement was so full of self-aggrandizement and a little bit of martyrdom.

I am trying so hard, I cannot do this on my own.

I am going to take my ball and go home kind of thing.

I am not sure how that plays well with constituents.

>> Kind of back to what Mike was saying.

Is this threat?

I believe her, but especially after what we just talked about, they are going to struggle to get the things done that they absently have to get done this year, let alone creating a commission.

That is my thing as well.

She is saying I will resign unless you study this issue.

Is that worth threatening your resignation over?

>> I would think so.

>> At what point, maybe this is a rhetorical question.

When you are complaining about the circus being in disarray, does your threat to walk out and take your ball and go home, is she not the carnival barker?

I am mixing my metaphors with circus and able.

She saying "Step right up, but I am going to do!"

She thought leaving since the day she essentially took office.

"I want to go get a PhD, I want to go do this."

Very much Hamlet like.

To be or not to be from day one.

He almost wish for constituents that somebody would make up one's mind early in the process so they can get the guarantee, not the guarantee, but the circus we elected.

In recent weeks she went after Eric Garland, comparing just a week and 1/2 ago or so, comparing the Justice Department the KGB and talking about how Americans are afraid.

She got trounced with an amendment to the appropriations for the last week where she took on cultural check offs which I think she got 49 votes.

In this area of bipartisanship when you are on the losing end and you get 48 others with you,... >> There is a lot of frustration that is all culminating in this sort of excuse for her frustration.

>> Indiana Republican gubernatorial candidates weighed in this week on controversy surrounding the LEAP district, the large high- tech industrial districts, in Lebanon.

>> Achieves source of angst surrounding the expense of development is a proposal to move millions of gallons of water a day from the Lafayette area down to the LEAP district.

Fort Wayne businessman Eric Doden says he is deeply concerned about the plan while former attorney Chris Hill told the Indiana Capital Chronicle such an idea shows LEAP project is not feasible.

Tenant governor Suzanne Crouch and US Senator Mike Braun both express support for the LEAP district generally, while acknowledging concern for logistics and lack of communication from state officials.

Former Secretary of commerce Brenda Chambers, the Indian economic developer Corporation throughout the LEAP district development was unsurprisingly supportive of the project.

>> Jon Schwantes, in this primary key with so many headers for this coming position, they are trying to find things to differentiate themselves on.

Candace become one of those issues?

>> I think it has more potential than some of the other trial balloons had been set up, which essentially kind of fizzled.

If you look at the recipe book, how to make a good issue, this has all of these issues.

On one side you have the government elitists and corporate interests against the small farmer, or mom and pop Hoosier want to know, but I still have water coming out of my well when I turn on the faucet?

Then you later the whole notion of transparency and the arrogance of decision-making, which you can make an argument that that kind of decision-making is necessary in the crucible economic development deals.

Still, it is an easy thing to say.

Look at all this money that was spent on assessment, the design of this pipeline when in fact, we did not know when the contract was whether it is sufficient water.

Now the engineering firm that did the water assessment was hired essentially and endorsed by the EDC.

You get the common themes of elite, behind-the-scenes decision- making.

I am not saying that there is a good white hat and black hats, but has the elements.

Everything is great for me.

>> Is also the question I think, now that especially the gubernatorial candidates have weighed in.

Only 1% is unqualified.

-- only one person is unqualified.

The idea this was has been running it up until recent.

If you are trying to attract a really big company to come to move to Indiana to come to this park, isn't that company looking at who the next government will be in a little over one year, and going "I don't know if they will still be supportive of this or not."

>> Yet, I am sure there is some of that, but obviously the land has already been.

They put hundreds of millions into this already.

How they deal with the water is obviously a big one.

I think Eric Doden did exactly what he needed to do, because he and Brad Chambers essentially have the same background.

He differentiated himself from Brad Chambers on this.

I was a little more surprised by how strident Curtis Hills statement was.

Eric Doden was deeply concerned, but Curtis was flat out, look, if you don't have the water, it is not feasible.

Why are we talking about this?

It is a great issue in the governor's race to them about it.

I am glad to candidates, aside from Mike Braun, who did not return, I don't think most reporters calls on this are looking for statements.

They are ready to be on the record about how they feel on this topic, because it is obviously one that a lot of people are asking about.

>> I think especially with something like Curtis Hill statements, you don't agree with something like that often.

>> I don't remember the last time I did, actually.

>> We are in a good position if not all of Indiana right, when it comes to water.

That is not always going to be true.

Looking forward, can you move this much water for an industrial arts, when you might need to adjust more people someone else down the line.

>> I do think that is a legitimate question.

We are actually officially in and have been for the last two years.

-- we are officially in a drought.

The trend is not in that direction.

I think that is concerning.

It is also interesting to see the conflict between the two of them and the transparency.

All right, they spent hundreds of millions of dollars, in some cases they spent outrageous money to acquire that land.

My tax dollars at work, $100,000 an acre?

Come on!

>> Going back to the question I asked at the beginning, Candace become a key wedge issue this primary?

It is not not complicated.

There are a lot of issues at play.

Can you make it simple enough for primary voters to go "Yes, I agree with candidate A and not candidate B.

B."

>> For the serious ones, Curtis Hill in one of them, he readily had to bring utilities to major development projects, private or public, the other four, a kind opponent.

They have to think harder about, how hard am I coming up against the skin will beat Brad Chambers over the head is a little bit like this project is becoming toward Road.

It is this the box idea that is not brand-new.

If you zoom out into the nation or world, it is highly commercial.

It is really easy to demagogue.

It is pharmacy and pasteboard seven AC.

You have to be possible as any of these candidates as governor of expressing caution what do you think we need to think this through and to the point of, these studies paid for by the government.

It is the government project.

Of course it would be paid for by the government.

I will take care of the water problem for you.

>> Is surprising if the government pays for the feasibility study.

The feasibility study agrees with the program.

>> The governor is going to have to manage this lady always had to manage it.

The governor does have to manage water resources.

It is a fairly new, is a brand-new concept to Indiana.

I would rather listen to the water engineers that Curtis Hill, or whether or not we could get into that.

Should you don't like Curtis either?

>> One of the longest-serving members of the Indiana house he will not seek reelection next year.

Republican Jerry Torr plans to retire after nearly 3 decades in the General assembly.

>> Torr was elected in 1996 and will start of his 14th term in office.

He sent serving in our place was in honor of the lifetime but he looks forward to focusing fully on his career in title insurance.

Torr helping some of the controversial elections in the house in the decades, that the shift of daylight saving time in 2005, and making Indiana "Right to Work" state in 2012, demanding union tracks to have nonunion employees to pay fees for plantation.

Torr's retirement will be a test of political shapes, the suburban Indianapolis.

Democrats have gained there in recent years and have targeted Torr the last couple of cycles.

An open seat could be an opportunity for Democrats to make further gains in the traditional Republican stronghold.

>> Niki Kelly, but is Jerry Torr's legacy in the house?

>> His name has been attached to atomic big bills, whether it be daylight savings time or "Right to Work", stuff like that.

His legacy is always someone you could approach to talk about topics, he did not shy away from having policy discussion and plus, he has the best presentation to teach someone to put euchre.

>> Is a PowerPoint presentation.

Very quickly, we have a Republican Danny Lopez, Deputy Chief of Staff to the governor, we have a Democrat, this is going to be one of the most competitive races.

>> I think a lot of eyeballs will be on that.

More competitive than ever because of changing demographics in the suburban area.

>> That is Indiana Week In Review for this week.

Our panel is Democrat, Ann DeLaney.

Publican, Mike O'Brien.

Jon Schwantes of Indiana Lawmakers, and Niki Kelly of the Indiana Capital Chronicle.

You can find Indiana Week In Review's podcast episodes at WFYI.org/IWIR.

I am Brandon Smith of Indiana public broadcasting.

Join us next time, because a lot can happen in Indiana week.

LISA STRADER: (Music plays) >> The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week In Review is a WFYI production and Association