>> Hi.

I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds and leaders in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

In this episode, we sit down with DeVon Franklin -- Hollywood producer, New York Times best-selling author, and motivational speaker, and we discuss the biggest misconceptions around love, how to find the right romantic partner, and why we should start with loving ourselves before anyone else.

I'm so glad you're here today.

Let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪ ♪ >> Here's the number-one thing that I've learned.

We have been sold a myth.

>> Ooh, what is that myth?

>> We have held marriage up like it's the top of the mountain, and when you get there, all of your problems are answered and gone.

>> That's not true.

>> It's not true.

You know, from being -- you know, from a kid.

We're watching movies, we're watching television shows, we're listening to music.

It's all about love.

It's all about finding it.

It's all about getting to that mountain of, "Oh, when I find the one, then I can relax."

No, marriage is like getting to the beginning of the mountain.

>> Ooh, man.

Base camp.

>> Base camp.

And guess where the summit is.

>> It's hard to breathe up there.

>> It's hard to breath up there.

It's jagged.

It's not a smooth, you know, ride.

That's what marriage is, and so coming into the myth of it, it's like, "Oh, got it."

I love my wife, she loves me, the union is great, yet we got work to do, and until we do our work, the union itself can't subsidize it.

And so that myth that marriage is the answer was one of the myths that I had to confront.

And what I realized -- >> When did you confront it?

>> It was gradual.

You know, it was gradual for me, you know?

And part of that gradual revelation was looking for the marriage to bring me a certain level of fulfillment that I was not actually pursuing on my own.

So don't get me wrong.

Yes, marriage is great.

Love is great.

It can be fulfilling.

However, if we are not actually doing our work and finding out what makes us happy, what makes us fulfilled, and we're relying on the union to do that, we ultimately find ourselves becoming manipulators.

>> To get what we want.

>> To get what we want.

We're trying to, like, "Oh --" >> 'Cause we expect that that person in a relationship is supposed to provide us something.

>> Exactly.

Here's what I believe a great relationship provides, right?

You know, let's look at it for a minute like a business, right?

So, you know, if you have a business and you have a partner, what makes a great partnership?

When both bring something to it.

>> Yeah, if your partner is just taking everything and not adding value to the business, you're like, "Why is this person making money?"

>> There you go.

>> "Why am I paying back into this person?"

>> The purpose of a relationship is both people making a contribution so that that contribution enriches the lives of both, right?

So I'm bringing something.

You're bringing something.

Now, we both, you know -- our happiness, our joy is enhanced.

It's not created.

The myth is that the marriage will create your happiness.

It's not true.

It can enhance it if you already have it.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So if you have a partnership, both people are bringing their contributions, and then as a result, your business thrives, because you have two people who are committed.

Here's the second part -- both going in the same direction, right?

>> Is that related to values, then?

>> It's related to values.

It's related to purpose.

I believe that the purpose of a relationship is, one, you know, making a contribution to each other's happiness.

You know, having that partnership, >> Not making the other person happy.

>> You cannot do it.

>> Contributing to the other person's happiness.

>> "Oh, this person makes me happy.

Oh, they make me so happy."

It sounds so good to say.

But what happens when you say someone makes you happy?

It means you are outsourcing your happiness to that person.

>> Ooh.

Yeah.

>> Because that same person that makes you happy can then make you mad.

Okay, so then tell me, who's in control of how you feel?

>> The other person.

>> Exactly.

>> So is love enough?

>> No.

Is love enough?

No.

You can love somebody and not stand them.

>> Right.

>> Right?

I love my wife.

My wife loves me.

We still have to do our work and make the commitment to walk this thing out.

>> Love is all you need.

>> That's right.

>> It's a good line in a song.

>> No.

>> Makes me feel good when I hear that.

>> Right.

>> But it's not all you need.

>> No, you need compatibility.

Again, you talk about people going in the same direction.

It's like, okay, cool.

We're committed to going in the same direction.

We're committed to the same type of life.

We're committed to allowing each other to be the full self that we were created to be.

That, to me, in addition to love, is what can make a great marriage or make a great relationship.

But love alone is not enough.

There's a lot of people you love you can't stand.

There's a lot of people you love that you broke up with... >> Right.

>> ...because you said, "You know, I love them, but we're just not compatible."

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And that love may never go away, but so often we're romanticizing love in a way that it produces so much pain in those who don't have it.

>> After nine years, how important is still communicating expectations nine years into marriage?

>> [ Laughs ] >> [ Chuckles ] >> Man, it's every day, right?

>> Really?

>> Oh, oh, you can't autopilot this thing.

>> You can't say, "This is what I expect," one day and then it'll be good for the rest of life?

>> Never.

It will not work.

It won't work.

And here's why.

You know, I go back to our flaws, right?

We're all flawed.

>> Yeah.

>> All of us, and all of us have traumas and tragedies and things that we have experienced in our life that we have compartmentalized.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And that's why I go back to this earlier thought of, like, you know, the myth that marriage is going to save you and it's everything.

The reason why I think that's a myth is because the more you are with somebody and the more that you love them and they love you, the more those flaws -- >> Fears come out.

>> The fears come out, the trauma.

>> Why is that?

>> Because of vulnerability.

And you're actually sharing your life with someone and you're allowing someone to see who you are.

And there's also certain things you don't know that you've gone through that have impacted you to the level that they have.

>> And it's coming up now.

>> Exactly.

And so in a great relationship, it serves as a great mirror.

So when you talk about setting expectations, you know, nine years in, it doesn't stop because all of us are changing.

And also to that point, we have to learn to communicate.

We have to get our words out.

We have to say, "Okay, you know, hey, baby, can I expect this?

Can you expect that?

Let's get to the middle so that we understand, 'Oh, okay, cool.

Here's what I can hold you accountable for.

Here's what you can hold me accountable for.'"

Instead of assuming.

Unspoken expectations are relationship killers.

You have this unspoken expectation.

You treat the person as if you have spoken it and they know it.

>> And you fault them for it and blame them, yeah.

>> And then you judge them.

You judge them when they don't meet the expectation they may not have been aware of, and then you make a false assumption about their intent for you.

>> "They don't care about me.

There don't love me.

They don't think about me."

>> There you go.

And so, in our head, we become the judge and jury over somebody.

>> Without even telling them... >> Without even telling them.

>> ...what they were supposed to do.

>> Exactly.

And giving them the opportunity to say yes or no.

>> That's it.

>> That's it, because too often in relationships, we're trying to control.

And so just because you have an expectation, it does not mean that person is obligated to meet it.

That person has to agree.

That person that you're with is free the same way you're free, okay, and if they want to meet that expectation, great, and if they don't, then you can talk about what that means.

"Hey, okay, you know, I have a certain expectation.

Okay, that's not something you want to meet?

Alright, let's talk about if we are compatible.

Let's talk about if we are going in the same direction.

>> How do we learn to love ourselves so much that it doesn't matter what our partner does or doesn't do?

>> Oh, man, if you give to get in a relationship, you are on thin ice and the sun is coming out.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> I believe everyone should give freely from how they feel and want to feel, and they give to that person because that's what's in their heart to do.

Over time, it's not an indictment on that person if that person isn't giving as much.

It just may be revelatory about compatibility.

I'm in a relationship because I want people to contribute to these needs.

Like, I'm going to be fine no matter what, but I'm in this relationship because I actually love the idea of someone else, you know, contributing to my well-being.

So you have to assess it and see if there's compatibility and alignment, not pointing the finger.

People run from difficult relationships.

Whatever the lesson is, you got to get about you.

Before you break up -- >> Heal it within the relationship first.

>> There you go, because then you take that healing to the next relationship.

If your relationship is revealing your own brokenness and your issues that you got to deal with, and then you're saying to that other person, "Oh, it's your fault," that brokenness and that healing that you didn't do, you're taking it wherever you go.

That's going to be the constant.

>> You're repeating the cycle.

>> It's going to repeat.

>> So what should we do?

If we're in an environment of a relationship that is not working, that people are being triggered and there's arguments and fights and frustration, and you're just not able to see eye-to-eye.

You're not facing the same direction.

>> We're looking to love someone.

We're looking for someone to love us.

But do you love you?

>> Mm.

>> Loving you -- me loving me comes -- it starts with appreciating who I am, flaws and all.

Going easy on myself.

Too often we are the people that talk to ourselves the worst.

We would never let somebody talk to us as badly as we talk to ourself.

That's not love.

Love is like, "It's okay.

Yeah, you know, you fell.

Come on, get up.

You're good.

It'll be alright.

Alright, what did you learn?

What do you got to do differently?"

It's a lesson.

It's not an indictment.

Loving ourself, we come to find out, well, what are we like?

What do I like to do?

What are the things that contribute to my happiness?

And let me prioritize those things.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> When we love ourselves, we really start to appreciate.

We start to say, "Oh, man, you know what?

I'm going to be alright.

I'm gonna be okay."

And so often, we don't do that.

We're looking for other people to do the work for us that we're not doing ourselves.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> That's why there's always this imbalance.

That's why we can never really find contentment.

Why?

'Cause it starts here.

Prayer, meditation, working out, eating right -- whatever the things that contribute to your happiness, you and I have to make a committee of one to do those things.

>> Yeah.

>> Period.

Whatever those things are that bring you peace, don't wait until your partner does it.

Don't wait until you get in a relationship to focus on it.

Do it now.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And one of the biggest challenges is that if you are already in a relationship or you're in a marriage and it has become so codependent that you don't do anything unless they give you permission, you know, "Oh, you don't want to go work out?

Okay, I'm going to go work out today."

"Oh, you want to cook?

Oh, that's good."

Right?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to do things together, but what are the things that you like to do?

Who are you?

What's in your heart?

So before you point the finger, "Hey, this is not working, and you're the problem," everyone has to do a self-assessment and say, "Well, okay, well, have I done my work?

Am I doing my work?

Do I love myself?"

>> What should we assess in that process?

What are the things we should be asking ourselves?

>> Expectations are the secret software that run our life, and what I mean by that is that we don't actually sometimes react to life events.

We react to our expectations of events.

>> Right.

>> So if situations or people exceed our expectation, we're happy.

If situations or people don't, we're devastated.

>> So what should we do?

Have no expectations?

>> No, you can't do that, because expectations are like blood pressure.

You know, too high, it's not good.

Too low, it's not good.

Because expectation -- we need motivation.

Expectations are our hope, right?

So we do have to have hope, but we've got to set it properly, because so often when our expectation is not set, we end up reacting based upon an unsaid expectation, and so it's not that what the person is doing is wrong, it's that we have not set expectations for ourselves.

We haven't identified what those triggers are.

We haven't identified "Oh, wait a minute.

They're not the problem.

It's how I'm looking at it is the problem."

So in order to set expectations, I ask these two questions.

One, is it realistic or unrealistic?

Comes down to one word -- control.

>> What do you mean?

Are you trying to be in control, or...?

>> If it's within your control to do it, you can expect it.

It's a realistic expectation.

And if we live the way that we want, then whoever we're in the relationship with, either that is going to compel them to say, "Hey, hey, you know what?

I like what you're doing," and then you say, "Hey, I like what you're doing, so let's do that together," or it won't.

But when we try to get somebody to be what we want them to be and do what we want them to do, that's called manipulation.

>> What happens when we are trying to control or manipulate someone else in an intimate relationship, or they're doing that to us?

What happens?

>> Love goes down.

Fear rises.

The fear of, "If I don't do this, they're going to leave."

So then it becomes a performance-based relationship.

>> Mm-hmm.

That's not good.

>> It's not good.

You've got to put yourself at the end of your life and can you live with doing what was expected but never what was destined?

And if the answer to that question is no, then you've got to make some changes now.

>> When we feel the sense of chemistry and connection and intimacy, why does that trap us, and we stay in these things much longer than we should?

>> It can take a while for you to come into a revelation of what you're worth and that you are worthy to be happy and pursue happiness on your terms and come to the revelation that, you know, this dynamic is no longer, you know, making that contribution to my life.

>> Not that they're bad and wrong.

>> There you go.

Right.

Right.

>> Not that it's all their fault.

>> There you go.

>> Just wasn't the right fit.

>> At the end of the day, love becomes complicated because we never actually get there with our worth in who we really are, and so we go into the relationship and we haven't really done the work.

We kind of feel worthy.

We don't quite feel loved, and we bring all of that.

That's a recipe for this, you know?

And here's the thing.

It's okay, right?

Love is like a rocky sea, right?

You know what I mean?

"Hey, we're on the boat, man.

It's going to be rocky."

That's okay.

Because we all have our stuff.

So it's not about finding somebody who don't have stuff.

You want to find somebody who can help you with your stuff.

>> Yeah.

Do you feel like weddings set us up for failure in marriage?

>> Absolutely.

>> The performance, everyone comes, the celebration.

this is the greatest day, the year buildup, and then you go into day-to-day life.

You never recreate that.

>> I say that most people don't realize that wedding vows are our expectation agreements.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So you're setting the tone for what can be expected, you know, through richer or poorer, through sickness and health, you know, till death do us part, right?

So you're saying -- you didn't even realize, "Oh, so this is what this person can expect from me," but we don't actually then negotiate the finer points of what that means.

>> "I can do whatever I want to do, and you got to live with it."

>> There you go.

It's like, "No, no, no, wait a minute.

Hold on a second.

Is that what I was agreeing to?"

Right?

Right?

But the wedding itself is a performance.

That fantasy can be a cloud that hangs over the whole marriage.

You want to make sure, if you're single, that you are going into marriage on your terms, not because your family's pressuring you, not because your friends are already married.

Those are terrible reasons.

>> Not because she or he is pressuring you to get married.

>> Not because they're pressing you to get married.

>> Or else they're going to be angry at you.

>> There you go.

>> Don't do that.

>> No, you're doing it 'cause it's what you want to do, because you are living free and you are choosing this as the next evolution of your life.

>> How many people do you think have marriage remorse a day or a week later like, "Oh, I really didn't want this."

>> I think it's more than people know, you know, because, again, we go back to expectations.

There's this expectation that marriage itself is going to make you happier.

>> Yes, it's not.

>> It's not.

It doesn't.

If anything, marriages reveal how much more work you need to do.

>> Oh, man.

>> So unless you are ready to do that work and you're ready to take it on, sometimes marriages can actually inflame dissatisfaction because you have to then face you.

That's one benefit of marriage is that you have to face yourself.

Sometimes we run our whole life, and then we finally get into marriage, and it's like, "Oh, so this is who I am."

Love expands when our capacity to accept each other expands.

>> Ooh, man.

Gosh, that's huge.

>> It is so easy to love someone when they fit your narrow definition of what they should do.

It's easy, but can you love them the more they don't?

Can you appreciate them for becoming their full self?

That to me is love.

The more I can accept somebody for who they are, the more I can really say I love them.

Because if we accept somebody for who they are, we're also accepting things that they do that we can't stand.

>> [ Laughs ] >> Let's just be honest.

If I live free, I got to give everybody else a chance to live free, especially in a relationship.

And that's where people get it mixed up.

Even if someone is married to you, you don't control them.

They don't control you.

They have to have the freedom to experience life and become who they are, obviously, within the confines of that commitment, and you have to have the experience to live life and experience that freedom, obviously, in the confines of the commitment.

>> With your agreements and everything, yeah.

>> Correct.

You know, this idea, you know, it's like singleness is taught like, okay, when you get married two halves become whole, and that's like -- but that psychologically -- it's like, no.

Two wholes -- >> Become three, yeah.

>> Right, exactly.

You know, you're bringing your whole self, and there's a new entity, but you're still yourself.

And so you have to service the entity, and you have to also still service yourself.

And that love grows the more you say, "Okay, you know what?

I accept.

>> What would you say are three questions that you should ask the person you're dating to see if they're even potentially going to be the right fit long-term?

>> Where are you going?

>> Yeah.

>> What do you see?

Right?

Like, so where are you going in life?

Like, what are you pursuing?

What's your purpose?

That's the number-one question.

Where are you going?

Too often in dating and singles, the first instinct is about me.

I want to know, is this person right for me?

How do you determine that?

Instead of asking a selfish question, you want to know where they're going.

It's like an Uber.

You put in the destination 'cause you know where you want to go.

You would never get in an Uber that's going a place you don't want to go.

So the first thing you do when you get to Uber, you say, "Hey, are you the right person?

Okay, yes.

Okay, great."

So now I know I'm going to go where I need to go 'cause I've checked that to begin with.

Too often we're so worried.

Like, does this person like me?

Do they care about me?

Before you even worry about that, are they going in the same direction?

You know, what do they value?

So number one, where are they going.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Two, you got to ask the question, what do you see?

So what is that about?

You want to get into their head?

What do you see for your life?

Do you see yourself married?

Do you see yourself with kids?

Do you see yourself living in this city, or do you see yourself moving to another city?

What do you see?

And then the third question, what do you think about me?

Those first two questions, when you hear those answers, you may not even need to ask the third, because you could decide, "Oh, you know what?

This person is going in a direction that I don't want to go.

They're seeing stuff I don't see.

I don't need to ask what they think about me.

I've actually learned that maybe this is not the right person for me.

Okay, cool."

But the third question, the reason why I reserve that, to ask yourself last is because you need to have these other ones first and then you need to ask that person when you say, "Hey, what do you think about me?"

that's a vulnerable question, but you need to know.

>> Ooh.

>> And just, man, in dating situation, people can hide.

It's so easy when you get infatuated with somebody to hide, right, and you don't ever want to ask, you know, "What do you really think?"

because you're afraid if you ask that question, you know, the whole thing is up.

>> Yeah, 'cause they can say, "Well, you're a lot of fun, but I don't really see this long-term."

>> You need to know that.

As soon as you start to have feelings for this person, you need to know that question.

Because then, as a person who lives free, you then can make the decision if you want to continue.

>> Right.

>> So if you decide to continue -- this person says, "Hey, you know what, I only see this as a physical thing."

If you have that information early, then, as an adult, you can make the decision, "Okay, you know what?

Fine.

This person sees it only physical.

Fine.

I will keep going."

Or, "You know what?

No.

I don't want to do that."

But don't be afraid to ask the question.

>> Man.

>> Because there are people right now that are watching this.

They're dating someone who is manipulating them and they don't even know it.

>> 'Cause they haven't asked the questions.

>> 'Cause they haven't asked the questions, and the person they're dating, it's so easy to show up and say, "Oh, I love you and think about you.

Da-da-da-da-da."

But no, no.

What are they really thinking about what's really going?

>> And you're living in the expectation world.

If you're not asking the questions and communicating, you're having an expectation.

"Oh, they're hanging out with me 'cause they want to be with me long-term.

That's not true.

>> It's not true.

unless you ask the question.

>> So this is a hypothetical scenario.

Imagine it's your last day on Earth, many years away from now.

You can live as long as you want to live, but eventually you got to turn the lights off.

>> Okay.

>> And for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your written work, audio work, video work with you.

So everything you've ever said, this book, any book you ever have, it's got to go with you to the next place.

>> Okay.

>> So no one has access to your content anymore, but you get to leave behind three things you know to be true.

You take out a piece of paper and write down your three truths, which would be the biggest three big lessons you would share with the world that you learned, and this is all we would have to remember you by.

>> God is love.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Faith works.

And Jesus saves.

>> DeVon, before I ask you the final question, I want to acknowledge you, my man, for always being real with me.

I love our friendship, even though we don't get to hang all the time.

Every time you come back on, I'm just like, "Man, I want to spend more quality time with you."

I appreciate the effort and the energy and the attention to detail you put into your work, into your words, into your books, into the movies you make.

Everything you do is at such a high level, and I really appreciate and acknowledge you for being an inspiration and also for being real about relationships and your own personal relationship.

I think every relationship's got its own challenges, different seasons of life with challenges, and for you to be open about it, you know, in a respectful way is really inspiring.

So I acknowledge you for constantly doing the work yourself in marriage and relationships and being open about it.

I think it inspires the rest of us guys.

Final question -- what's your definition of greatness?

>> Peace and proficiency.

>> Mm-hmm.

And what I mean by that is, when I think of those who are great, they are incredibly proficient at what they do, and in the midst of that proficiency, they're able to tune out the pressure and find the peace of their purpose in whatever that may be.

That when you really see the greatest of the great, they are extremely proficient... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...and they have that peace in the midst of it.

And that's what makes them great and makes all of us say, "Wow."

You know, one of the greatest of all time, obviously, Muhammad Ali, who's, you know, inspiration to the world.

You look at his proficiency in the ring, but then you look at his peace to say, "Hey, take the title.

Not going to compromise who I am."

And then the proficiency to get it back... >> Right.

>> ...and the peace to tune everything out when everybody said he couldn't do it.

When I look at those who are impacting the world in a great way, I see a combination of both, because you look at people, and you say, "How can you be that proficient and that peaceful?"

To me, that's greatness.

>> We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Stay tuned for more from the "School of Greatness," coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes.

And if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website, lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of the "School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course, "Find Your Greatness," is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in the "School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

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