>>THIS WEEK ON NEWSNIGHT AS EARTH DAY APPROACHES.

LATER THIS MONTH, THE PANEL LOOKS AT SOME OF THE MOST PRESSING ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES FACING OUR STATE AND THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A RESILIENT FLORIDA GRANT PROGRAM TO FUND LOCAL GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO TACKLE SEA LEVEL RISE.

PLUS ARE COVID-19 CASES, LESS LIKELY TO BE RECORDED IN RURAL PARTS OF FLORIDA THAN IN URBAN COUNTIES?

NEWSNIGHT STARTS NOW.

♪ MUSIC ♪ >>HELLO, I'M NANCY ALVAREZ, AND WELCOME TO NEWSNIGHT WHERE WE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE BIG STORIES IMPACTING CENTRAL FLORIDA AND HOW THEY AFFECT ALL OF US.

AND WE DO THIS EVERY WEEK BY BRINGING TOGETHER A TEAM OF JOURNALISTS FROM DIFFERENT LOCAL MEDIA OUTLETS FOR IN-DEPTH DISCUSSIONS ON THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES.

SO JOINING US THIS WEEK, VERONICA ZARAGOVIA OF WLRN AND HEALTH NEWS FLORIDA, AND AMY GREEN, WHO COVERS ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES FOR 90.7 WMFE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR COMING BACK ON THE SHOW WITH US THIS WEEK.

MY COLLEAGUE, STEVE MORT IS TAKING SOME MUCH DESERVED TIME OFF THIS WEEK.

ALL RIGHT, WELL, FIRST, TONIGHT AS EARTH DAY APPROACHES NEXT WEEK, WE WANTED TO SPEND SOME TIME ON TONIGHT'S SHOW TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES FACING FLORIDA'S ENVIRONMENT.

AND THERE IS SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT.

JUST LAST WEEK THE STATE LEGISLATURE PASSED BILLS TO TACKLE IMPACTS OF SEA LEVEL RISE.

THE OVERWHELMINGLY BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION CALLS FOR $100 MILLION A YEAR TO COMBAT FLOODING ISSUES AND CREATE A RESILIENT FLORIDA GRANT PROGRAM TO FUND LOCAL GOVERNMENT INITIATIVES.

SO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION WILL ALSO BE TASKED WITH DRAWING UP A COMPREHENSIVE RESILIENCE PLAN.

HERE'S FLORIDA HOUSE SPEAKER, CHRIS SPROWLS.

>>FOR YEARS, I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT FLORIDA CAN BE A NATIONAL EXAMPLE TOO, FOR RESILIENT COMMUNITIES.

I MENTIONED IN MY DESIGNATION SPEECH, I PENNED AN OP ED ALONG WITH SENATE PRESIDENT SIMPSON THIS SUMMER ABOUT IT, AND WE ANNOUNCED OUR AGENDA ALONGSIDE MANY MEMBERS RECENTLY IN ST. PETERSBURG.

WITH THE PASSAGE OF REPRESENTATIVE BUSATTA CABRERA FLOODING AND SEA LEVEL RISE BILL TODAY, WE HAVE DELIVERED ON THAT GOAL.

FLORIDA'S HOME TO SEVEN OF THE 10 CITIES WITH THE LARGEST PROPERTY LOSSES AT RISK FROM FLOODING IN AMERICA.

AND WHILE SOME CONTINUE TO DEBATE WORD CHOICE, WE'VE ROLLED UP OUR SLEEVES AND FOUND REAL SOLUTIONS TO A REAL PROBLEM.

FOR THE FIRST TIME, FLORIDA WILL HAVE A STATEWIDE PLAN TO ADDRESS FLOODING, AND WE WILL DEDICATE $100 MILLION A YEAR TO THAT CAUSE.

WE WANT TO APPRECIATE OUR PARTNERS IN THE SENATE WHO WORKED REALLY HARD ON THIS PRODUCT, ALONG WITH US AND FOR GETTING IT DONE SO EARLY ON IN SESSION.

I'M PROUD OF THE WORK THAT REPRESENTATIVE BUSATTA CABRERA'S BILL IS NOW HEADED TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK FOR SIGNING.

WE ARE ONE STEP CLOSER TO THE GOAL THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT NOW FOR MANY MONTHS THAT WE SHOULD BE ALWAYS READY.

>>ALL RIGHT, A LOT TO TACKLE HERE WITH THIS AMY.

SEVERAL OF THE STEPS OF THIS BILL, FOCUSED ON PLANNING AND RISK ASSESSMENT.

SO WHERE DO WE CURRENTLY STAND WITH THAT FOR THE MANY AREAS OF OUR STATE, THE INDIAN RIVER LAGOON AND BREVARD COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT MAY BE IMPACTED BY RISING WATERS.

>>YEAH, SO SOME VERY VULNERABLE AREAS HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA IN BREVARD COUNTY, THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE SITUATED ON A BARRIER ISLAND BETWEEN THE ATLANTIC OCEAN AND INDIAN RIVER LAGOON, SATELLITE BEACH.

I HAVE A STORY OUT TODAY ON WMFE.ORG ABOUT SOME OF THE MITIGATION EFFORTS THEY'RE ENGAGED THERE IN SATELLITE BEACH WHERE THEY'RE MOVING THEIR FIRE STATION AND PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING TO HIGHER GROUND IN ANTICIPATION OF MORE IMPACTS FROM CLIMATE CHANGE AND SEA LEVEL RISE INTO THE FUTURE.

BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT JUST A COASTAL PROBLEM, RIGHT?

IN FLORIDA, WE ARE FACING MORE INTENSE HEAT DROUGHT IN HURRICANES, AND SO WHILE THIS BILL REPRESENTS A GREAT STEP FORWARD IN FLORIDA'S EFFORTS TO PLAN AND GET READY FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND SEA LEVEL RISE.

ONE CRITICISM THE BILL IS FACING IS THAT IT DOESN'T DO A WHOLE LOT ON THE EMISSIONS THAT ARE CAUSING TEMPERATURES TO RISE AND THAT ARE CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE.

>>YEAH, AND WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THE ISSUE OF CAUSES AND CONSEQUENCES HERE COMING UP.

BUT VERONICA, OF COURSE, ANOTHER ISSUE THAT ALWAYS COMES UP IS THE MONEY.

HOW DO WE PAY FOR THIS?

SOME CRITICS SUGGEST FUNDING FOR THIS MIGHT IMPACT MONEY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHICH IS ANOTHER HUGE ISSUE IN OUR STATE.

SO WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT WHERE THIS MONEY IS GOING TO COME FROM?

>>YEAH, THAT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME THAT LAWMAKERS AGREED TO TAKE MONEY FROM THIS 30 YEAR OLD AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND, THAT'S FUELED BY MONEY THAT COMES FROM A TAX ON REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS.

WHEN REGULARLY OVER THE YEARS, WHEN THERE'S BEEN A NEED TO PLUG A HOLE IN THE STATE BUDGET, THEN THEY TAKE LAWMAKERS TAKE MONEY FROM THIS FUND THAT WOULD HELP FOR INSTANCE, TO BUILD AFFORDABLE RENTAL UNITS OR TO HELP FIRST-TIME HOMEOWNERS WITH DOWN PAYMENTS.

SO SOME LAWMAKERS ARE SAYING, HOW ARE WE GOING TO CHOOSE THESE TWO REALLY IMPORTANT PRIORITIES AND TAKE FROM ONE TO PAY FOR THE OTHER, AND SOME LAWMAKERS ARE SAYING WELL WHAT ABOUT USING MONEY THAT COMES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, 1.9 TRILLION AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES, THE MITIGATION OF SEA LEVEL RISE AND A WASTEWATER TREATMENT, AND OTHERS ARE SAYING, WELL, THIS IS JUST A ONE-YEAR THING.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO TAKE FROM THIS HOUSING FUND FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL KIND OF CALM CONCERNS THERE OTHERS ARE SAYING, LET'S MAKE SURE TO PUT MORE MONEY INTO THIS AFFORDABLE HOUSING, FUNDTO KIND OF OFFSET THE IMPACT FROM TAKING MONEY AWAY.

SO IT'S STILL AN ISSUE THAT'S A REALLY, REALLY HEATED ISSUE.

>>YEAH, WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

AND AMY, GOING BACK TO SOMETHING THAT YOU TOUCHED ON THE MEASURES IN THIS PLAN SEEM TO BE WIDELY SUPPORTED, BUT LET'S TALK A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THESE CONCERNS THAT IT ADDRESSES THE CONSEQUENCES, BUT NOT THE CAUSES.

>>THAT'S RIGHT, AND I JUST WOULD MENTION WMFE HAS A STORY OUT TODAY KIND OF TAKING THIS ISSUE HEAD ON.

WMFE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH INSIDE CLIMATE NEWS, TOOK A LOOK AT DESANTIS' ACTIONS ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE, WHICH IS FLORIDA'S BIGGEST ENVIRONMENTAL THREAT.

YOU KNOW, DESANTIS HAS PRESENTED HIMSELF AS A GOVERNOR WHO HAS MADE THE ENVIRONMENT A PRIORITY THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND IT'S GREAT THAT WE'RE SEEING THIS LEGISLATION COMING OUT OF THE SESSION THIS YEAR, BUT TO DESANTIS HAS FOCUSED, AND THIS LEGISLATION IS FOCUSING ON COASTAL INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH IS VERY NEEDED AND IT'S GREAT THAT WE'RE TAKING THIS ISSUE ON IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, BUT WHAT WE'RE NOT DOING IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS ADDRESSING EMISSIONS.

THERE IS ANOTHER BILL IN THE LEGISLATURE, THIS SESSION THAT WOULD CALL FOR ALL THE FLORIDA'S HOMES AND BUSINESSES BY 2040 TO BE POWERED BY 100% CLEAN ENERGY, AND THAT LEGISLATION HAS NOT SEEN VERY MUCH ACTION THIS SESSION.

AND IT'S THE THIRD YEAR THIS LEGISLATION HAS BEEN INTRODUCED.

AND SO WHILE IT'S GREAT THAT FLORIDA IS TAKING THIS STEP FORWARD WITH THIS ALWAYS READY LEGISLATION, THERE'S STILL A LOT MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

>>AND AMY YOU'VE ALSO REPORTED EXTENSIVELY ON THE EVERGLADES.

YOU'VE EVEN WRITTEN A BOOK ON THE SUBJECT RECENTLY.

SO LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT THAT.

WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT OUR ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES IN THIS STATE WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE EVERGLADES.

>>YEAH, WELL, LIKE YOU SAID, THE EVERGLADES IS A PART OF FLORIDA THAT'S VERY NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART.

I SPENT 10 YEARS WORKING ON A BOOK ON THE EVERGLADES CALLED MOVING WATER THAT JUST CAME OUT THIS SPRING.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE BIGGEST ENVIRONMENTAL PRIORITIES THAT FLORIDA IS FACING, THE REASON CLIMATE CHANGE IS RIGHT UP ON THE TOP OF THAT LIST IS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING IN FLORIDA WHEN IT COMES TO OUR ENVIRONMENT CAN ONLY GET WORSE AND MORE CHALLENGING AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN A WARMING WORLD, AND THE EVERGLADES IS ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, THE EVERGLADES NEEDS A LOT MORE WATER TO SUSTAIN ITSELF AS A HEALTHY ECOSYSTEM, AND ALSO SERVE AS FLORIDA'S MOST IMPORTANT DRINKING WATER RESOURCE.

WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT HOTTER TEMPERATURES, WHICH CAN LEAD TO EVAPORATION, WHICH CAN AFFECT THE AMOUNT OF WATER THAT'S IN THE EVERGLADES.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE SEA LEVEL RISE, OF COURSE, AND MORE FRESH WATER IN THE EVERGLADES CAN HELP PUSH BACK AGAINST THOSE RISING SEAS.

AND AGAIN, PRESERVE OUR DRINKING WATER FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

ANOTHER BIG ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT ON THE SHOW, NANCY IS HARMFUL ALGAE BLOOMS IN THE INDIAN RIVER LAGOON AND ELSEWHERE IN THE STATE THAT ARE FUELED BY RIENT POLLUTION.

AND AGAIN, WITH HOTTER TEMPERATURES, THESE HARMFUL ALGAE BLOOMS, THERE'S POTENTIAL THERE FOR THOSE TO BECOME A BIGGER PROBLEM.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE VARIED ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS, THE STAGE IS FACING A COMMON THREAD IS CLIMATE CHANGE AND ONE OF THE BEST WAY TO ADDRESS A LOT OF THESE PROBLEMS IS TO, TO TAKE CLIMATE CHANGE HEAD ON AND ADDRESS THOSE EMISSIONS AND HELP KEEP THOSE TEMPERATURES DOWN AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

>>AND AS WE KNOW THOSE ALGAE BLOOMS CAN HAVE TERRIBLE ECONOMIC IMPACTS THE CITIES WHERE THEY HAPPEN IN THE AREAS.

THOSE ARE A BIG ISSUE.

WE ALWAYS REPORT ON THEM AT CHANNEL NINE AND WE SAY THEY HAPPEN, THEY'RE RESOLVED AND WE MOVE ON, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A DEEPER CONVERSATION, AND FIND SOME SOLUTIONS.

AS A REMINDER, WE ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

YOU CAN JOIN THIS CONVERSATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WE'RE AT WUCF TV ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND INSTAGRAM.

>>ALL RIGHT, UP NEXT TONIGHT, YOU PROBABLY HEARD ABOUT IT, THE DISASTER AT PINEY POINT IN MANATEE COUNTY AND WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR OTHER SIMILAR SITES AROUND OUR STATE.

SO RECENTLY MILLIONS OF GALLONS OF NUTRIENT RICH WASTEWATER FROM A PHOSPHATE POND AT AN OLD FERTILIZER MANUFACTURING SITE BEGAN SPEWING INTO TAMPA BAY AT PORT MANATEE.

IT PROMPTED EVACUATIONS OVER FEARS OF A CATASTROPHIC BREACH.

LAWMAKERS HAVE APPROVED $3 MILLION TO CLEAN UP THE SITE AND ABOUT 200 MILLION TO CLOSE IT FOR GOOD.

>>I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO MAYBE DO AN ASSESSMENT OF HOW MANY PINEY POINTS DO WE HAVE AROUND THE STATE.

RIGHT?

SOMEONE HAD SAID EARLIER, MAYBE THERE WAS 24 OR FIVE OF THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROJECTS.

I THINK WE SHOULD GET A HANDLE ON WHAT THOSE ARE, AND MAYBE TAKE A LOOK AT HOW DO WE CONTINUE TO PUT EITHER ADDITIONAL PRESSURE ON THOSE PRIVATE OWNERS TO DO IT THEMSELVES.

WHAT CAN WE DO REGULATORY TO CAUSE THAT TO HAPPEN, OR DO WE HAVE TO COME IN AND CLEAN THESE SITES UP THEN AND TRY TO GO AFTER THEM, THROUGH A LEGAL REMEDY.

SO EITHER OF THOSE WILL BE FINE, BUT I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S LONG OVERDUE.

>>AND CERTAINLY WE DO NOT NEED OUR CITIZENS EVERY THREE, FIVE, 10 YEARS TO BE FACED WITH THIS TYPE OF A DISASTER.

AND YOU'LL REMEMBER FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO, WE PUT A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN THE BUDGET TO FIX A DIKE AROUND LAKE OKEECHOBEE.

THAT'D BEEN GOING ON, FOR DECADES.

AND WE PUT THE HUNDRED MILLION INTO SPEED THAT PROJECT UP, WHICH I BELIEVE IS NOW SLATED TO BE FINISHED AT THE END OF 2022.

BUT TALKING ABOUT A MAJOR DISASTER, IF THAT DIKE COULD HAVE BEEN BREACHED, WE COULD HAVE HAD TENS OF THOUSANDS OF OUR RESIDENTS DROWNING.

AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON WHAT TYPE OF PROJECTS THOSE ARE OUT THERE AND WHAT THE TYPE OF COSTS ARE WE LOOKING AT TO REPAIR THOSE.

>>YEAH, AND OF COURSE THIS SITUATION IN TAMPA THERE MADE NATIONAL HEADLINES, IT WAS SHOCKING.

ASSESSMENT SEEMS TO BE THE WORD OF THE DAY HERE, AMY.

SO IS THIS ONE OF THOSE CASES OF CLOSING THE BARN DOOR AFTER THE HORSES ARE ALREADY OUT.

WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY WAS IT TO HAVE HAD THIS SITUATION IN CHECK?

>>YEAH, WELL, IT SURE SOUNDS LIKE IT, THIS IS A TERRIBLE SITUATION AND IT'S ONE THAT'S KIND OF BEEN BREWING FOR MANY YEARS.

YOU KNOW, PINEY POINT HAS BEEN LEAKING, POLLUTED WATER, UNDER A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT OWNERS FOR MANY YEARS, GOING BACK TO WHEN IT WAS FIRST ESTABLISHED IN 1966.

SO THIS IS A VERY UNFORTUNATE SITUATION THAT WAS YEARS IN THE MAKING.

>>YEAH, AND WE JUST HEARD HIM TALKING ABOUT IT THERE.

OTHER PINEY POINTS, HOW MANY OF THESE SITES OR SITES LIKE IT ARE IN OUR STATE AND AROUND OUR COUNTRY?

IS IT A LOT?

>>WE'RE HEARING ABOUT TWO DOZEN ACROSS THE STATE, BUT WE HAVE NOT HEARD A LOT YET FROM THE STATE.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST HEARD THE CLIP THERE, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT WE HAVE NOT HEARD YET A LOT FROM THE STATE ON, HOW THINGS MAY CHANGE FOR THESE OTHER SITES GOING FORWARD AS A RESULT OF THIS SITUATION THAT'S HAPPENED AT PINEY POINT.

AND WE ALSO HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE STATE REALLY, HOW DID PINEY POINT, HOW WAS PINEY POINT ALLOWED TO HAPPEN?

OR IN OTHER WORDS, WHY DID THE STATE NOT INTERVENE BEFORE NOW WHEN THERE WERE MANY OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE STATE TO DO SO?

>>A LOT OF REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS THERE OF VERONICA IN YOUR RESEARCH, WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND TO BE THE HEALTH IMPACT OF ACCIDENTS LIKE THIS ONE?

CERTAINLY THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT WORSE.

>>ABSOLUTELY.

BUT NOW IN THIS REGION, AND ESPECIALLY IF PEOPLE ARE IN THIS WAIT AND SEE PERIOD TO SAY, WELL, IF ALGAE BLOOM DEVELOP IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, ONE HEALTH IMPACT TO SAY THAT THE ECOSYSTEM THERE'S THAT KILLING OFF OF SEA GRASS OF FISH, THE IMPACT OF MANATEES AND ALSO WHAT THAT DOES IS ALSO HARM BUSINESSES.

SO THERE ARE ALL THESE INDIRECT HEALTH IMPACTS TO PEOPLE AND TO ANIMALS AND PLANTS.

AND, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WORRIED THAT THEIR TOURISM WILL DROP ALREADY.

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SO AFFECTED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

SO IT KIND OF HAS THIS WHOLE EVERYTHING'S INTERCONNECTED.

AND SO THIS PROBLEM COULD IMPACT PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOODS IN WAYS THAT ARE LIKE A DIRECT HEALTH IMPACT AS WE NORMALLY THINK OF HEALTH.

>>YEAH, AND AMY, IN TERMS OF WHERE WE GO FROM HERE IN OUR STATE, WHO IS CHARGED WITH MAKING THESE ASSESSMENTS OF POSSIBLY DANGEROUS SITUATIONS AND ARE WE PREPARED FOR THE TASK?

>>YEAH.

MY IMPRESSION IS THE STATE STILL IS FIGURING OUT SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GOING FORWARD, THE BIG WORRY NOW THAT EVERYONE HAS IS HOW WILL THE BAY BE AFFECTED BY THIS POLLUTED WATER?

AND AGAIN, THE FEAR IS MORE HARMFUL ALGAE BLOOMS, LIKE WE'VE SEEN IN THE INDIAN RIVER LAGOON, WHICH IS AFFECTED THE MANATEES IN THIS VERY TERRIBLE WAY.

LIKE WHAT WE SAW IN 2018.

IT'S JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW THE ESTUARIES IN OUR STATE ARE HAVING PROBLEMS, THEY'RE IN TROUBLE.

AS FLORIDIANS, IT'S JUST, IT'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT WE NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS AS FLORIDIANS AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR WASTE.

IT HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE, AND SO EVERY LITTLE STEP THAT WE CAN TAKE THAT WE CAN TAKE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HOW WE LIVE IN FLORIDA AND HOW WE CO-EXIST WITH OUR ENVIRONMENT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

>>NO DOUBT, WE ALL HAVE TO PLAY A PART HERE AND WE COULD BE SETTING AN EXAMPLE REALLY FOR THE WORLD HERE IN FLORIDA, WITH EVERYTHING WE HAVE GOING ON HERE.

AMY, ONE LAST QUESTION FOR YOU IN TERMS OF ANOTHER THEME OF WHERE WE GO FROM HERE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS AGGRESSIVELY, BUT ALSO HOW TO PAY FOR IT.

ARE WE HEARING ANY THOUGHTS WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE TOWARD PRIVATE INDUSTRY OVERSIGHT OR REGULATION OR ASSISTANCE?

>>YEAH, THAT'S ANOTHER GOOD QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, WHAT I HAVE BEEN HEARING IS THAT THIS CLEANUP WILL BE PAID FOR BY TAX PAYERS.

THIS HAS BEEN ANOTHER ISSUE, ANOTHER THEME THAT WE'VE SEEN THROUGH FLORIDA ENVIRONMENTAL HISTORY, WHICH IS THE SITUATION WHERE PRIVATE LAND OWNERS POLLUTE THE ENVIRONMENT AND THEN IT'S LEFT WITH TAXPAYERS TO PAY FOR THE CLEANUP.

THAT'S A BIG THEME OF MY BOOK ON THE EVERGLADES.

THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN A BIG ISSUE IN EVERGLADES RESTORATION, WHERE YOU HAVE SEEN FARMERS IN THE EVERGLADES, PRIMARILY FARMERS GROWING SUGAR, SUGAR GROWERS.

AND THERE'S BEEN A BIG DEBATE THERE ABOUT EVERGLADES RESTORATION, AND WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING AND OUR SUGAR GROWERS PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE, AND SO THAT IS A BIG ISSUE.

AND THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S SURFACING WITH THIS STORY HERE.

>>ALL RIGHT.

WELL, A LOT OF GOOD THOUGHTS AND A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT I'M SURE WE'LL ALL CONTINUE TO LOOK INTO FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR STATE.

MORE, JUST AHEAD >>TO LISTEN TO MORE NEWSNIGHT INTERVIEWS, LEARN MORE ABOUT ISSUES DISCUSSED IN THIS PROGRAM AND TELL US WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IN THIS COMMUNITY.

GO TO WUCF.ORG/NEWSNIGHT.

>>NEXT TONIGHT, COVID-19 DEATHS BEING SIGNIFICANTLY UNDER-REPORTED IN RURAL PARTS OF CENTRAL FLORIDA.

SO THAT'S ACCORDING TO A NEW STUDY, WHICH SHOWS UNEXPLAINED EXCESS DEATHS ARE HIGHER IN RURAL COUNTIES THAN IN URBAN AREAS.

RESEARCHERS FROM BOSTON UNIVERSITY BELIEVE MANY OF THOSE FATALITIES ARE LIKELY ATTRIBUTABLE TO COVID.

MY COLLEAGUE, STEVE MORT SPOKE WITH ONE OF THE REPORT'S AUTHORS, ANDREW STOKES, >>RURAL AREAS, AREAS WITH HIGHER POVERTY LEVELS, AREAS IN THE SOUTH AND THE WEST ARE SEEING A GREATER DISCREPANCY BETWEEN, THE OFFICIAL COVID-19 TALLIES VERSUS ESTIMATES OF EXCESS MORTALITY.

WE DON'T KNOW THE EXACT CAUSE OF THESE DISCREPANCIES, BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL POTENTIAL EXPLANATIONS THAT WOULD REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

>>IS THIS JUST A MATTER OF ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE?

OR COULD THIS BE A LACK OF TESTING?

>>YOU KNOW, TESTING REALLY LAGGED FOR THE FIRST SEVERAL MONTHS OF THE PANDEMIC, AND THAT MIGHT EXPLAIN A LARGE PROPORTION OF THE DISCREPANCIES THAT WE'RE SEEING.

>>SO WHAT PARTS OF THE STATE PARTICULARLY STOOD OUT TO YOU?

>>FLORIDA IS A REALLY INTERESTING CASE.

FLORIDA IS A TEST CASE OF WHY LOOK LOOKING AT COUNTY LEVEL DATA IS SO ESSENTIAL.

THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF HETEROGENEITY IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WITH, YOU KNOW, SOUTHERN FLORIDA EXPERIENCING VERY LITTLE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THESE DIRECT TALLIES AND EXCESS DEATHS.

WHEREAS RURAL PARTS OF THE SOUTH CENTRAL FLORIDA, CENTRAL FLORIDA IN THE PANHANDLE ARE SEEING MUCH GREATER DISCREPANCY.

SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS OUR ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATIONS IS IN GETTING TO THE BOTTOM OF THESE DISCREPANCIES IN THOSE MORE RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE.

WHAT CONCERNS ME IS THAT PARTS OF THE STATE ARE SEEING DISCREPANCIES AS GREAT AS 50%.

AND SO WE REALLY NEED TO DO MORE DIGGING INTO WHAT HAPPENED THERE BECAUSE THAT COULD REVEAL, SOME POTENTIAL STRUCTURAL AND SOCIAL PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY THAT DEATHS ARE INVESTIGATED AND REPORTED.

>>AND ARE THERE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED HERE IN TERMS OF HOW WE COLLECT DATA IN A PANDEMIC THAT WE CAN USE IN FUTURE SITUATIONS, SAY ANOTHER PANDEMIC?

>>THE BIG LESSON FOR FUTURE PANDEMICS IS THAT WE NEED A MUCH MORE ROBUST HEALTH SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE TRACKING DEATHS AND WHAT PEOPLE DIED FROM IS SO CRUCIAL TO DECISION-MAKING THE ALLOCATION OF RESOURCES, AS WELL AS IT AFFECTS INDIVIDUAL BEHAVIORS AND RESPONSES TO THE PANDEMIC.

IF YOU LIVE IN A LOCAL COMMUNITY IN WHICH COVID HAS BEEN IN SIGNIFICANTLY UNDER REPORTED FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT MIGHT CREATE THE APPEARANCE THAT THE PANDEMIC IS NOT AS SERIOUS AS IT ACTUALLY IS.

AND IT MAY LEAD TO RELAXING CRUCIAL CONTROL MEASURES PREMATURELY.

SO WE OUGHT TO GET AN ACCURATE COUNT ACROSS THE STATE OF FLORIDA AND ACROSS THE NATION IN ORDER THAT WE CAN ALL RESPOND APPROPRIATELY IN TERMS OF SOCIAL DISTANCING, MASKING, VACCINATIONS, AND OTHER CRUCIAL MEASURES.

>>SO VERONICA LET'S DIG INTO THIS ISSUE HERE.

DO WE IN FLORIDA LOOK ENOUGH AT THE EXCESS DEATH METRIC?

AND CAN WE REALLY SAY WITH ANY CERTAINTY HOW THE PANDEMIC HAS PLAYED OUT HERE WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE DATA?

>>I DON'T THINK WE LOOK AT THAT METRIC ENOUGH.

AND I THINK WHEN STUDIES LIKE THIS ONE COME OUT, THEN IT REALLY ENFORCES RESEARCHERS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO SOMETHING THAT IS OF COURSE VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE EXCESS DEATHS IS A NUMBER THAT TELLS YOU THE NUMBER OF DEATHS FROM ALL CAUSES DURING A CRISIS LIKE THIS PANDEMIC THAT EXCEED THE EXPECTED NUMBER OF DEATHS THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED DURING NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND THEY'RE FINDING THAT FOR INSTANCE, THERE ARE INDIRECT CAUSES TO THESE EXCESS STATS THAT'S LIKE PEOPLE WHO DECIDED NOT TO GO AND GET CARE AT A HOSPITAL BECAUSE THEY WERE WORRIED THAT THEY MIGHT CATCH THE CORONAVIRUS AND THEN MIGHT'VE HAD A HEART ATTACK AND DIED.

AND THAT'S LIKE, THERE ARE A LOT OF INDIRECT CAUSES FOR THESE EXCESS DEATHS.

AND CERTAINLY ALL OF THE METRICS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTANDING WHAT HAPPENED TO UNDERSTANDING HUMAN BEHAVIOR DURING THIS PANDEMIC.

AND IF IN FACT MORTALITY FROM COVID-19 IS HIGHER THAN WHAT'S BEING REPORTED, THEN THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW.

>>OF COURSE.

YEAH.

AND ASIDE FROM THE OBVIOUS TRAGEDY OF THESE DEATHS, LET'S TALK MORE, WE'VE JUST HEARD A LITTLE BIT ON IT, BUT LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT HOW UNDER REPORTING COULD REALLY FURTHER HARM THESE RURAL AND UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES VERONICA.

>>RIGHT?

BECAUSE IT MIGHT THINK THAT FALSE IMAGE THAT COVID-19, OR WHICH IS THE DISEASE CAUSED BY THE CORONAVIRUS IS MORE DEADLY IN URBAN AREAS.

AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

IT COULD BE EXTREMELY SERIOUS IN RURAL AREAS AS WELL, AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE THE SAME ACCESS TO HOSPITALS AND TO FUNDING FOR HEALTHCARE AS, AS IS AVAILABLE IN URBAN AREAS.

IT ALSO CHANGES HUMAN BEHAVIOR FOR PEOPLE TO THINK THAT THEY COULD MAYBE BE AROUND EACH OTHER AND THEN BE SPREADING THE CORONAVIRUS THAT CAN HAVE VERY SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES.

SO CERTAINLY THERE COULD BE IMPACTS LIKE IF DEATHS ARE NOT REPORTED ACCURATELY, THEN THERE MIGHT BE UNDERFUNDING THE GOVERNMENT MIGHT SAY, "OKAY, THESE AREAS DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT.

WE'LL, DIVERT RESOURCES TO OTHER AREAS."

AND SO IT CAN HAVE A LOT OF, A LOT OF BAD IMPACTS.

>>AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THE POLITICS OF ALL THIS, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IT IS FLORIDA AFTER ALL.

AND SOMEHOW SOME WAY POLITICS IS ALWAYS INVOLVED.

THE POLITICAL FACTORS WHEN IT COMES TO REPORTING THESE DEATHS AND THE LACK OF TRANSPARENCY WITH THE NUMBERS WHEN THE STATE TOOK OVER CAUSE OF DEATH CERTIFICATION, IS THAT HAPPENED BACK IN AUGUST?

>>YEAH, GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS HAS OFTEN USED NUMBERS LIKE THAT TO SHOW THAT FLORIDA ACTUALLY FARED PRETTY WELL IN COMPARISON TO OTHER STATES.

HE'LL MENTION NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA A LOT.

AND SURE FOR SOMEBODY WHO HAS POLITICAL AMBITIONS, IT MIGHT HELP TO NOT BRING UP ALL THE COMPLETE PICTURE.

I LOOK A LOT AT, IF YOU GO TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WEBSITE, YOU CAN SEE FOR EXAMPLE, A BAR CHART THAT SHOWS YOU THE DECKS AND NURSING HOMES.

EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNOR HAS OFTEN SAID THAT THE STATE HANDLED NURSING HOMES WELL DURING THE PANDEMIC, THERE WERE MANY MONTHS THAT DURING THIS PANDEMIC, THAT THOSE NUMBERS OF STAFF AND RESIDENTS WHO DIED WERE EXTREMELY HIGH.

SO THERE ARE WAYS TO KIND OF, AS A RESIDENT OF FLORIDA, GET A SENSE OF WHAT REALLY THE PICTURE IS.

>>I WILL SAY THAT THERE'RE EPIDEMIOLOGISTS, FOR INSTANCE, JASON SELENA PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA IN TAMPA HAS SAID THAT HE DOESN'T SEE A HUGE DISCREPANCY.

DOESN'T THINK THAT THE STATE IS HIDING A HUGE AMOUNT OF DEATH DATA.

SO THE REALITY IS SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE AND JUST TO BE AWARE THAT SOMETIMES FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES, NOT EVERYTHING WILL BE DISCLOSED.

>>YEAH, AND OF COURSE, BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME WE HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE VACCINES.

OF COURSE, THE BIG NEWS THIS WEEK, THE PAUSE OF DISTRIBUTION OF THE J&J VACCINE.

SO WHAT DO WE SEE AS THE IMPACT TO DISTRIBUTION NUMBERS AND MAYBE TO THE MOMENTUM OF VACCINATIONS?

BECAUSE WE WERE REALLY MOVING HERE.

COULD THIS HAVE AN IMPACT ON THAT?

>>YEAH, SO UNFORTUNATELY THERE WERE POP-UP EVENTS THAT WERE PLANNED WITH THE JOHNSON AND JOHNSON VACCINE, THOSE USUALLY ARE JUST ONE DAY EVENTS.

BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONE AND DONE VACCINE, THEN NOW THEY WOULD HAVE TO SET UP EVENTS AGAIN, WHERE IT WOULD BE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK WITHIN A THREE OR FOUR WEEK PERIOD DEPENDING ON WHICH VACCINE THEY WOULD USE.

A LOT OF THE FEMA SUPPORTED SITES, WHICH ARE IN ORLANDO, TAMPA, JACKSONVILLE, AND MIAMI, THEY HAD TO SCRAMBLE AND NOW HAVE BEEN OFFERING ONLY THE SECOND DOSE PFIZER RATHER THAN GIVING THAT FIRST SHOT OF JOHNSON AND JOHNSON.

SOME PHARMACIES THAT PUBLIX, FOR INSTANCE, HAD TO SWITCH OVER.

AND YES, IT DOES HURT THE MOMENTUM BECAUSE NOW WE'RE IN THIS PAUSE, BUT HOPEFULLY THERE'LL BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN WELL TO PEOPLE.

IT WAS JUST A NEED TO MAKE SURE WHAT'S CAUSING THESE BLOOD CLOTS WHOSE MOST AT RISK, AND THEN KIND OF GET THE MESSAGING BACK THAT, THESE VACCINES DIDN'T GET WASTED.

THEY'RE JUST BEING STORED, THE JOHNSON AND JOHNSON.

SO ONCE WE KNOW IT'S SAFE TO CONTINUE, THERE'LL BE AVAILABLE AGAIN AND HOPEFULLY MOMENTUM WILL PICK UP.

>>THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

THEY'RE STILL THERE.

WE JUST GOT TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS, AND OF COURSE WE'LL BE COVERING IT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

WE WANT TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS, YOU CAN FIND THE LINK TO THE BOSTON UNIVERSITY STUDY ON EXCESS DEATHS IN FLORIDA'S RURAL COUNTIES AND MORE OF STEVE'S INTERVIEW WITH THE REPORTS AUTHOR, ANDREW STOKES ON OUR WEBSITE.

JUST GO OVER TO WUCF.ORG/NEWSNIGHT.

IT'S A VERY INTERESTING READ.

WELL, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS WEEK.

MY THANKS ONCE AGAIN TO VERONICA ZARAGOVIA OF WLRN AND HEALTH NEWS, FLORIDA, AND AMY GREEN OF 90.7 WMFE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT AT 8:30 RIGHT HERE ON WUCF FROM ALL OF US HERE AT NEWSNIGHT.

HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE WEEKEND.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.