>>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE FROM OUR HOME STUDIOS.

I'M DAVID DUNCAN.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORONADO.

TODAY WE HAVE WITH US KIRK JOHNSON, DIRECTOR OF THE SMITHSONIAN'S NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY.

WELCOME.

KIRK, WHEN YOU WERE 23, YOU DECIDED THAT YOU WANTED TO DO SOMETHING VERY IMPACTFUL FOR YOUR LIFE AND FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD.

AND WE WANT TO KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>>WELL, I'LL TELL YOU.

WHEN I WAS 23, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

IT'S ONLY THE RETROSPECT OF GETTING OLDER, LOOKING BACK AT WHAT I HAD THE GOOD LUCK TO DO.

BUT I WAS A KID WHO LOVED TO FIND FOSSILS.

AND I LEARNED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF JOINING A NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC EXPEDITION TO THE HIGH ARCTIC OF CANADA.

AND ONCE I GOT THAT IN MY SIGHTS, I COULD NOT THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE.

AND I WENT TO GREAT ENDS TO CONVINCE THE TEAM TO LET ME COME ALONG WITH THEM AND MIRACULOUSLY, THEY DID.

SO AT THE AGE OF 24, I WENT TO THE ARCTIC WITH A TEAM OF THREE OTHER PEOPLE AND SPENT TWO SUMMERS, MORE THAN A THOUSAND MILES NORTH OF THE ARCTIC CIRCLE.

UNBELIEVABLE EXPEDITIONS.

>>SO, KIRK, YOU HAVE APPEARED IN NUMEROUS DOCUMENTARIES, YOU'VE WRITTEN A NUMBER OF BOOKS.

YOU RUN ONE OF THE LARGEST MUSEUMS IN THE UNITED STATES.

I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN A LITTLE ABOUT THE CHALLENGE, YOUR PALEOBOTANIST BY BACKGROUND.

BUT WHAT'S THE CHALLENGE IN EXPLAINING THESE COMPLEX ISSUES TO REALLY THE LAYMAN?

>>WELL, I THINK THAT PEOPLE REALLY LEARN THINGS WHEN THEY EXPERIENCE THINGS THE MOST ABOUT THE STUFF THAT YOU DO EVERY DAY.

AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEEP TIME OR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED 60 MILLION YEARS AGO, HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THAT?

HOW WOULD YOU EVEN BEGIN TO COMPREHEND SOMETHING THAT'S THAT OLD?

SO I THINK WHAT I'VE FOUND IN MY LIFE IS THAT IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR ME AND FOR MOST SCIENTISTS TO LEARN BY DOING THINGS.

AND AS A PALEONTOLOGIST, I LEARNED BY TRAVELING THE WORLD AND GOING TO REMOTE PLACES AND DIGGING HOLES IN THE GROUND AND FINDING FOSSILS AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER IN A CONTEXT THAT TELLS US THE STORY OF THE HISTORY OF OUR PLANET.

AND ONE OF THE VERY COOL THINGS ABOUT OUR PLANET IS THAT IF IT BURIED, IT'S DEAD, WHETHER IT'S DEAD PEOPLE OR DEAD ANIMALS OR DEAD PLANTS.

YOU CAN DIG HOLES IN THE GROUND AND GO BACK IN TIME.

IT'S LITERALLY A TIME TRAVEL WITH THE SHOVEL.

AND I'VE BEEN DOING IT SINCE I WAS A KID.

SO I'VE GOT MORE THAN 45 YEARS OF HOLE DIGGING IN MY PAST AND I'VE EXPERIENCED IT ON ALL CONTINENTS AND IN ALL THE TIME PERIODS.

NOW I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD MEMORY IN MY BRAIN OF HOW THE PLANET CHANGED OVER TIME.

I DON'T EXPECT ANYBODY TO UNDERSTAND THAT BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT SAME JOURNEY I'VE BEEN ON.

BUT I DO KNOW THAT KIDS LOVE DINOSAURS AND DINOSAURS ARE PART OF THAT STORY.

AND FOSSILS ARE A GREAT GATEWAY TO UNDERSTANDING THE MEMORY OF OUR PLANET AND MEMORY IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIFE, IT'S YOUR EXPERIENCES THAT GUIDE YOUR FUTURE DECISIONS.

AND IN THE CASE OF THE PLANET, IT'S THE PLANET'S MEMORY THAT SHOULD BE GUIDING OUR FUTURE DECISIONS ABOUT THE PLANET.

>>KIRK, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

GOING BACK TO WHAT DAVID MENTIONED EARLIER TO COMPARE A PALEOBOTANIST TO A PALEONTOLOGIST >>PALEONTOLOGY IS A STUDY OF ANY DEAD THING, LITERALLY ANYTHING AND PALEOBOTANIST IS A STUDY OF DEAD PLANTS OR FOSSIL PLANTS.

AND PALEONTOLOGY, IT'S BASICALLY FOSSILIZED THE BIOLOGY AND AS A BIOLOGIST, I'M A BOTANIST, BUT THEREFORE MY PALEOBOTANIST.

LONG WORDS, THIS IS ME.

I LOVE DEAD PLANTS.

>>WELL, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO STUDY BOTH FOR YOU?

>>WELL, AGAIN, IT'S SORT OF LIKE THIS, I'M FASCINATED BY THE PLANET AND ITS WHOLE, I LOVE THE ROCKS AND THE GEOLOGY.

I LOVE THE ATMOSPHERE AND THE OCEANS AND I LOVE ALL LIVING THINGS.

AND SO FOR ME, IT'S JUST THIS EXPLORATION OF ANCIENT WORLD IS REALLY COMPELLING.

AND YOU CAN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT BIOLOGY IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GENERAL GRASP OF EVERYTHING IN BIOLOGY.

AND SO A BOTANIST GIVES YOU THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT KIND OF VEGETATION THERE WAS.

IF YOU LOOK OUT YOUR WINDOW RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE BOUND TO SEE A BUNCH OF PLANTS.

PLANTS ARE REALLY THE MOST COMMON LIFE FORM ON THE SURFACE OF EARTH.

WE TEND TO THINK ABOUT ANIMALS A LOT BECAUSE WE ARE ANIMALS.

BUT THE REALITY IS IF YOU WANT TO STUDY SOMETHING BACK IN TIME, PLANTS ARE PRETTY GOOD BECAUSE THEY TELL YOU WHAT A PLACE LOOKED LIKE.

AND THEN YOU COULD FIGURE OUT MORE FOSSILS, WHO WAS LIVING THERE.

THEN YOU COULD PUT THOSE ECOSYSTEMS TOGETHER AND CREATE ANCIENT WORLDS.

AND I SPENT MUCH OF MY CAREER WORKING IN MUSEUMS AND REBUILDING ANCIENT LOST WORLDS.

WORLDS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN SEEN BECAUSE THEY'RE EXTINCT AND BURIED IN ROCKS.

BUT WE CAN DIG THEM OUT OF THE GROUND AND WORK WITH ARTISTS TO PUT THEM BACK TOGETHER AS MUSEUM EXHIBITS.

AND THE WHOLE CONCEPT IN LIKE JURASSIC PARK COMES FROM OUR ABILITY TO DIG DEEP INTO THE ROCKS AND BUILD THESE ANCIENT WORLDS.

AND PLANTS ARE A CRITICAL PART OF THAT.

>>YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ANCIENT WORLDS, BUT IT ALSO REVEALS A LOT ABOUT THE CURRENT WORLD AND ABOUT WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS.

SO I KNOW YOU HAD A DOCUMENTARY EARLIER THIS YEAR, POLAR EXTREMES THAT TALKED ABOUT HOT HOUSE AND ICE HOUSE AND SOME OF THE CO2 LEVELS AND OTHER THINGS.

SO WHAT MAKES THIS PERIOD SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN OTHER CYCLES IN WORLD HISTORY?

>>WELL, I THINK THE WHOLE POINT IS LIKE IF YOU THINK BACK IN TIME, THE PLANET HAS HAD TIMES OF HAS BEEN MUCH WARMER THAN IT IS TODAY AND TIMES WHERE IT'S BEEN MUCH COLDER.

AND WE AS HUMANS HAVE BEEN LIVING FOR THE LAST 10,000 YEARS, REALLY SINCE THE BEGINNING OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION IN A TIME OF CLIMATE, WHICH I WOULD DESCRIBE AS COOL AND NOT THAT VARIABLE.

IT'S A GREAT TIME TO HAVE THINGS LIKE AGRICULTURE, WHICH LETS US BUILD THINGS LIKE CITIES.

SO HUMAN CIVILIZATION HAS BEEN BUILT AT A TIME WHEN THE CLIMATE HASN'T BEEN CHANGING THAT MUCH.

IF YOU GO BACK 2 MILLION YEARS, THERE ARE PLENTY OF TIMES WHERE IT WAS MUCH COLDER THAN IT IS TODAY.

AND WE WOULDN'T WANT TO BE IN THOSE TIMES BECAUSE YOU HAVE GREAT ICE SHEETS SITTING ON TOPS OF PLACES THAT ARE TODAY, NEW YORK CITY OR CHICAGO OR SEATTLE.

SO YOU WON'T WANT THAT KIND OF CONDITIONS.

CONVERSELY, YOU DON'T WANT MUCH HOTTER CONDITIONS BECAUSE IF YOU GET MUCH HOTTER CONDITIONS, YOU MELT THE ICE CAPS LIKE GREENLAND AND ANTARCTICA AND YOU INCREASE SEA LEVEL BY NOT A SMALL AMOUNT.

IF YOU MELTED GREENLAND, YOU'D RAISE SEA LEVEL BY ABOUT 25 FEET.

IF YOU MELT ANTARCTICA AND YOU REALLY STILL GO BY ABOUT 200 FEET.

AND 200 FEET WOULD PRETTY MUCH TAKE CARE OF FLORIDA, IT WOULD BE SUBMERGED THE ENTIRE STATE.

SO WE DON'T WANT A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE WARMING THE PLANET AND MELTING THE ICE SHEETS AND INCREASING SEA LEVEL.

IN FACT, WE'VE SORT OF BEEN LIVING FOR ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY, ALL OF THE REAL HISTORY OF PEOPLE WE'VE BEEN KEEPING WRITTEN RECORDS.

WE'VE BEEN LIVING IN A TIME WHERE THE CLIMATE HASN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH AND EVERYTHING WE KNOW IS FROM A TIME OF NON CHANGING CLIMATE.

SO THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PAST, LET'S JUST SAY, WELL, WHAT HAPPENED TO IF IT GOT COLDER?

WHAT HAPPENS IF IT GETS WARMER?

AND HOW FAST WOULD THAT MATTER TO US?

AND IT TURNS OUT WHAT WE'RE DISCOVERING MUCH TO ALL OF OUR AMAZEMENT IS THAT THESE LESSONS FROM THE DEEP PAST ARE ACTUALLY DIRECTLY RELEVANT TO US TODAY ON A HUMAN TIME SCALE.

AND THAT'S A BIT TERRIFYING ACTUALLY.

>>WHAT ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING TODAY THAT WE WEREN'T DOING YEARS AGO WHEN YOU WEREN'T SEEING THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IN THE CLIMATE AND CLIMATE CHANGE?

>>WELL, THE FIRST THING IS THAT THERE'S SO MANY MORE OF US.

I MEAN, WHEN MY GRANDFATHER WAS BORN, MY GRANDFATHER WAS 50 WHEN HE HAD MY MOM, SO HE WAS BORN IN 1879.

AND WHEN HE WAS BORN, THERE WERE LESS THAN 2 BILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN A PLANET EARTH.

NOW THERE'S 7.8 BILLION PEOPLE.

THAT'S MORE THAN DOUBLED SINCE WHEN I WAS BORN IN 1960.

SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON DOES IS WE LIVE, WE CONSUME ENERGY, WE RELEASE CARBON EMISSIONS, WE DRIVE CARS, WE LIVE IN BUILDINGS.

AND AS A RESULT, OUR USE OF FOSSIL FUELS HAS BEEN GROWING DRAMATICALLY.

AND EVERY TIME YOU BURN A FOSSIL FUEL, YOU RELEASE CARBON DIOXIDE AND WATER.

AND CARBON DIOXIDE IS A GREENHOUSE GAS, WHICH GATHERS IN THE ATMOSPHERE AND IT WARMS THE CLIMATE.

AND INITIALLY WHEN PEOPLE SUGGESTED THAT HUMANS COULD BE WARMING THE CLIMATE, PEOPLE SAY THAT'S CRAZY, THAT PEOPLE ARE SO SMALL, WHAT THEY CAN POSSIBLY DO TO CHANGE THE CLIMATE OF THE WHOLE PLANET?

BUT IT TURNS OUT IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH CARBON DIOXIDE TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE ABILITY OF THE ATMOSPHERE TO RETAIN HEAT.

AND IT TURNS OUT THAT HUMANS ARE RELEASING ENOUGH CARBON DIOXIDE JUST BY LIVING, JUST BY DOING EVERYTHING YOU DO EVERY DAY TO ACTUALLY WARM OUR EARTH'S CLIMATE.

AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IS HUMANS ARE ACTING AS A GEOLOGIC FORCE AND CHANGING THE COMPOSITION OF OUR ATMOSPHERE.

IT'S REMARKABLE.

I MEAN, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WHEN I WAS A KID AND WE KNOW IT NOW.

>>YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PURELY SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS, BUT OF COURSE THEY GO INTO THE POLICY REALM AND THEY BECOME QUITE, I GUESS, CONTROVERSIAL.

SHOULD THEY BE CONTROVERSY OR SHOULD WE BE FOCUSING ON THE SCIENCE SPECIFICALLY?

>>I DON'T THINK THAT REALITY SHOULD BE CONTROVERSIAL.

FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THEY ARE CONTROVERSIAL BECAUSE, IT HAS VERY SEVERE IMPLICATIONS FOR EVERYTHING.

EITHER YOU SAY, "WOW, THIS IS REALITY.

AND WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT."

OR YOU SAY, "I'D RATHER NOT DEAL WITH THIS BECAUSE IT MIGHT DISTURB THE ECONOMY AS I KNOW IT OR MY LIFE AS I KNOW IT, I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE."

I MEAN, AS INDIVIDUALS, WE'VE BEEN USED TO NOT HAVING A WHOLE LOT OF CHANGE.

AND OF COURSE THE CENTURY HAS BEEN MARKED BY ALL SORTS OF DISRUPTIVE CHANGE.

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN RECENT HISTORY, HOW TECHNOLOGY HAS CHANGED THE WAY YOU ACT, THE FACT THAT I'M TALKING TO YOU ON A REMOTE DIGITAL CALL THAT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE A FEW YEARS AGO.

AND SO, WE'RE UNCOMFORTABLE BY CHANGE IN GENERAL WAYS.

BUT IF YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY, "WELL, EVERYTHING THAT HUMANITY DOES NEEDS TO CHANGE."

YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF RESISTANCE.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE CONTROVERSY COMES IN.

IT'S A GLOBAL POPULATION OF 7.8 BILLION PEOPLE.

WE'RE NOT REALLY KNOWN FOR OUR COLLABORATION GLOBALLY.

AND WE'RE NOT REALLY KNOWN FOR BEING NIMBLE IN THE FACE OF DRAMATIC CHANGE.

WE'RE FACING THAT ISSUE RIGHT NOW.

SO PEOPLE WOULD BE MUCH HAPPIER TO SAY, "WELL, THIS ISN'T HAPPENING.

I'M NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT IT.

I'VE GOT MY THINGS THAT MATTER TO ME TODAY ABOUT WHAT I'M HAVING FOR LUNCH OR MY 15 YEAR MORTGAGE, OR I'M GOING TO BUY A CAR.

IT'S REALLY DOESN'T INVOLVE ME."

BUT THE FACT IS THAT IT REALLY DOES INVOLVE YOU.

AND IT REALLY IS JUST BASIC SCIENCE AND IT REALLY IS REALITY.

SO IT PRESENTS A REAL CHALLENGE FOR POLICY MAKERS TO ABSORB THE FACT THAT THEY'RE FACING A TIME THAT'S UTTERLY UNIQUE IN HUMAN HISTORY AND THAT THEY DON'T GET A PASS BECAUSE THEY'RE THE POLICYMAKERS THAT EXIST TODAY.

AND THEY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT THIS IS A REAL THING AND IT'S HAPPENING.

NOW WHAT THEY DECIDED TO DO DEPENDS ON THE LEVEL OF THEIR EFFECTIVENESS AND THEIR COURAGE.

BUT THE REALITY IS RIGHT OUT THERE, STARING US ALL IN THE FACE.

>>KIRK, YOU SAID THAT YOU DON'T THINK REALITY SHOULD BE CONTROVERSIAL, BUT THE PEOPLE MAKING DECISIONS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME UP WITH A PLAN, RIGHT?

A SOLUTION THAT EVERYBODY AGREES WITH, RIGHT?

IDEALLY THESE COUNTRIES, THE LEADERS IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES WOULD COME TOGETHER AND THEY'D SAY, "YES, IT'S OUR WORLD.

IT'S NOT JUST ONE COUNTRY OR ONE CITY THAT WILL BE IMPACTED AND IS ALREADY BEING IMPACTED."

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL TAKE TO GET PEOPLE TO AT LEAST LISTEN AND CREATE SOME KIND OF DOMINO EFFECT AND ACTION?

DO YOU THINK THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENING OR DO YOU THINK THAT SOMETHING BIG HAS TO HAPPEN?

>>WELL, I THINK IT REALLY IS THE CHALLENGE OF OUR AGE, RIGHT?

AND WE WERE EXPERIENCING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS ANOTHER VERSION OF A GLOBAL ABRUPT THING THAT CAUSES US TO CHANGE OUR BEHAVIOR.

NO ONE WANTED THE PANDEMIC TO HAPPEN, BUT WE ALL HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

AND CLIMATE CHANGE IS VERY MUCH LIKE THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S INTERESTING TO WATCH THE RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING, "WELL, THE PANDEMIC DOESN'T AFFECT ME.

I'M NOT GOING TO WEAR MY MASK.

I DON'T BELIEVE THOSE SCIENTISTS.

I'M GOING TO DISCARD THE FACT THAT SCIENTISTS AT THEIR CORE ARE JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE WORLD AND NOT TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN FROM A POLICY POINT OF VIEW."

THEY'RE JUST START TO SAY, "WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU WEAR A MASK?

YOU'RE PROBABLY LESS LIKELY TO GET COVID-19."

BUT THEY SAY, "I DON'T BELIEVE THAT."

SO YOU SEE AT THE RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC, A SHORT TERM THING.

AND THIS IS BAD, IF YOU DON'T WEAR YOUR MASK, YOU MIGHT DIE.

WHEREAS CLIMATE CHANGE, YOU HAVE LESS CONTROL IN THAT.

SO CLIMATE CHANGE IS A MUCH MORE DIFFICULT CHALLENGE THAN THE PANDEMIC, BUT YOU CAN JUST WATCH THE PANDEMIC, HOW HARD IT IS FOR PEOPLE TO ADJUST TO A NEW REALITY.

WE TALK ABOUT THE NEW NORMAL.

THE NEW NORMAL IS WHEN YOU PROBABLY ARE DOING THINGS AS A CULTURE, IN FACT, AS A GLOBE TO AVOID DYING FROM THE PANDEMIC.

BUT OF COURSE THE BACKSEAT WILL COME ALONG.

WE'LL FORGET ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

WE'LL MOVE ON.

WE'LL GO BACK TO SOME SORT OF NORMAL.

CLIMATE CHANGE IS A MUCH MORE PERVASIVE THING.

IT IS ANOTHER TRULY GLOBAL THING THAT'S HAPPENING ON A YEAR TO YEAR SCALE NOW.

IT'S HAPPENING FAST ENOUGH FOR ACTUALLY SEE IT HAPPEN.

AND THE FACT THAT THE WORLD HASN'T COME TOGETHER WITH A SOLUTION IS NOT SURPRISING BECAUSE IT'S A TREMENDOUSLY CHALLENGING PROBLEM.

THERE'VE BEEN SOME GOOD EFFORTS LIKE THE PARIS MEETINGS IN 2015 THAT ALL COUNTRIES AGREED IT'S A PROBLEM, WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR GLOBAL CARBON EMISSIONS.

LET'S SELF-REGULATE OURSELVES MOVING FORWARD.

BUT WHEN THEY GO BACK HOME, THEY FACE THE REALITY OF THEIR POPULATION WHO MIGHT VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE, WHO MIGHT SAY, "I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT RIGHT NOW.

IT'S TOO COMPLICATED.

I DON'T THINK IT'S REAL."

SO ALL THESE THINGS ARE NATURAL HUMAN RESPONSES TO A REMARKABLY DIFFICULT COMPLEX CHALLENGE.

>>KIRK YOU'RE NOT A POLITICAL FIGURE.

YOU'RE AN EDUCATOR AND A RESEARCHER AMONG OTHER THINGS.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU, DO POLITICIANS ACTUALLY TALK TO YOU AND ASK FOR ADVICE?

AND I THINK THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, YOU JUST MENTIONED KIND OF THE POPULATION, THEY COULD BE VOTED OUT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

HAVE YOU BEEN SOUGHT OUT TO EXPLAIN TO POLITICIANS HOW THEY CAN INTERN EXPLAIN BETTER TO THEIR PEOPLE, THE IMPORTANCE OF MAKING DECISIONS, FORWARD-THINKING DECISIONS?

>>I'M PALEONTOLOGIST, WHICH GIVES ME A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

AND I SHARE THAT PERSPECTIVE WITH BOOKS AND TELEVISION AND COMMUNICATION WAYS.

AND I DO TALK TO WHOEVER WANTS TO TALK TO ME, INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL.

BECAUSE I REALIZE THAT THERE'S TWO THINGS HAPPENING.

ONE IS, SCIENCE CAN BE COMPLEX AND HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY SCIENCE IS, IS THERE'S SO MUCH INFORMATION, THERE'S SO MUCH MATH, THERE'S SO MUCH DATA.

IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING HERE.

AND THAT'S WHY SCIENCE HAS ITS OWN INTERNAL CONTROVERSIES WHERE PEOPLE DISAGREE ON WHAT DOES THIS REALLY MEAN.

HERE'S SOME DATA.

WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN?

AND THEN THERE'S A SECOND TIER OF LIKE, "LET'S JUST IGNORE THE SCIENTISTS, BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS INCONVENIENT."

THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH, WHICH IS, "I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE TRUE BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY WOULD BE A PROBLEM FOR ME IN MY POLICIES."

WHAT YOU REALIZE IS THAT THAT POLITICIANS LISTEN TO THE VOTERS MORE THAN THEY LISTEN TO THE SCIENTISTS AS A GENERAL RULE.

BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T LISTEN TO THE VOTERS.

SO THE CHALLENGE REALLY IS NOT SO MUCH EDUCATING THE POLITICIANS AND POLICYMAKERS AS IT IS EDUCATING THE VOTERS.

IT'S ULTIMATELY, WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY IN THIS COUNTRY AND OUR GOAL IS TO REALLY HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE WORLD THEY LIVE IN.

AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT'S REALLY CRITICAL THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE WORLD WELL ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR POLICYMAKERS WHO ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT SCIENCE IS A WAY OF KNOWING, THAT'S A WAY OF SOLUTION BUILDING ON OUR PLANET.

AND YOU JUST LOOK AT THE LAST CENTURY.

SO MANY AMAZING SOLUTIONS HAVE COME FROM SCIENCE.

WHY WOULD WE NOW TURN OUR BACKS ON SCIENCE WHEN YOU FACE A LARGE PROBLEM?

SHOULD WE LEAN INTO SCIENCE AND SAY, "SCIENCE IS PROBABLY GOING TO HELP US FIGURE THIS OUT."

BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE AN EDUCATED CITIZENRY.

AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE POLITICIANS WHO REALIZE THAT THEY'VE GOT TO HAVE COURAGE TO TAKE ON REALLY CHALLENGING TOPICS, MORE CHALLENGING THAN ANY TOPICS THAT EVER HAPPENED IN THE PAST.

I MEAN, THESE LITERALLY ARE MORE CHALLENGING THAN WORLD WARS BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IT INFECTS EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THE PLANET.

>>HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK IT IS TO EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN AT AN EARLY AGE?

AND DO YOU HAVE ANY INVOLVEMENT WITH THAT?

>>LOOK, IT'S UTTERLY CRITICAL FOR SO MANY REASONS.

WE KNOW THAT KIDS START TO DEVELOP THE INTEREST WHEN THEY'RE EVEN BEFORE THE FIRST GRADE, WHEN THEY'RE KINDERGARTNERS AND PRE-K. AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO BE WELL FED AND WELL-TREATED TOO TO BE ABLE TO ABSORB KNOWLEDGE.

WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THE SMARTEST KIDS IN THE WORLD ARE 11 YEARS OLD.

THEY HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH PUBERTY YET.

THEIR BRAINS ARE FORMING.

THEY UNDERSTAND THE LOTS AND LOTS OF STUFF.

AND THEY'RE DECIDING WHAT THEY WANT TO BE AT THAT VERY EARLY AGE.

SO IF YOU DON'T GET AT KIDS, YOU MISSED THE BOAT ENTIRELY BECAUSE THEY GREW UP TO BE ADULTS.

AND THEY GREW UP TO BE VOTERS AND POLICY MAKERS AND SCIENTISTS.

SO IT'S UTTERLY CRITICAL TO INSPIRE AND ENCHANT SMALL PEOPLE, LITTLE TINY PEOPLE.

WHEN THEY'RE LITTLE TINY KIDS, YOU GET THEM PSYCHED ABOUT LEARNING ABOUT STUFF.

I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY BECOME, BUT I DO CARE THAT EVERY KID IS TREATED WELL AND LEARNS ABOUT THE WORLD THEY LIVE IN SO THEY CAN BECOME POSITIVE CONTRIBUTORS.

AND THAT'S WHY I WORK IN A MUSEUM BECAUSE I SEE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF KIDS EVERY YEAR.

AND I KNOW THAT THE STUFF I OFFER THEM LIKE DINOSAURS THEY'RE INTERESTED IN.

SO DINOSAURS IS SORT OF A GATEWAY TO SCIENCE BECAUSE IT ALLOWS ME TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE KIDS WHO ARE REALLY TINY.

AT THE SAME TIME, I HAVE TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHER SCIENTISTS AND OTHER POLICYMAKERS AND ADULTS THAT COME TO THE MUSEUM BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A COMPLETE SOCIETY.

BUT ULTIMATELY YOU'RE RIGHT.

I MEAN, THINK ABOUT THIS, THE KIDS THAT ARE ALIVE TODAY WILL BE ALIVE IN THE YEAR 2100, THERE'LL BE 22ND CENTURY CITIZENS.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE THAT, BUT THEY WILL.

A KID THAT'S BORN TODAY WILL ONLY BE 80 YEARS OLD IN THE YEAR 2100.

AND THAT'S JUST A REMARKABLE CONCEPT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH US TODAY THAT WILL LIVE IN THE 22ND CENTURY AND THEY'RE CALLED KIDS.

SO THEY'RE THE CRITICAL AUDIENCE, THE AUDIENCE THAT MATTERS.

>>HOW DO YOU JUDGE WHAT KIDS RESPOND TO BEST OR EVEN ADULTS RESPOND TO BEST AS A MUSEUM DIRECTOR?

>>YEAH, WE DO A LOT OF TESTING OUR AUDIENCES.

WE WANT TO SEE.

BECAUSE THE WORST THING FOR ME IS TO BORE SOMEBODY.

IF I BORE SOMEBODY, I'D HAVE LOST THEM RIGHT AWAY.

AND AS A MUSEUM, PEOPLE COME TO MUSEUMS FAIRLY INFREQUENTLY, THINKING ABOUT MUSEUMS COMPARED TO EDUCATION.

WHEN YOU'RE A KID, YOU GET TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY, ALL YEAR LONG, BUT YOU MAY COME TO THE MUSEUM ONLY TWO OR THREE TIMES.

SO I HAVE TO DO SOME PRETTY SPECTACULAR STUFF TO MAKE THE KIDS PAY ATTENTION.

AND MUSEUMS ARE KNOWN FOR THAT.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY SCIENTISTS TODAY WHEN YOU SAY, "HOW DID YOU GET INTERESTED IN SCIENCE?"

THEY'LL SAY, "WELL, WHEN I WAS SIX YEARS OLD, I WALKED INTO THE AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY IN NEW YORK CITY AND SAW X AND KNEW THAT THERE WAS A BIGGER WORLD OUT THERE."

AND THAT EXPERIENCE HAPPENS ALL THE TIME TO KIDS.

SO IT'S A NUMBERS GAME.

WE TRY TO GET MORE KIDS INTO THE MUSEUM.

THEY MAY ONLY COME ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR.

BUT IF THOSE MOMENTS ARE CRITICAL MOMENTS IN THEIR LIVES, THEN WE'VE DONE OUR JOB.

>>WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MOMENTS THAT HAVE IMPACTED YOU THE MOST?

I'M PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN ANYTHING AT AN INTERNATIONAL LEVEL.

SO DO YOU HAVE ANY MOMENTS WHERE YOU HAVE DISCOVERED SOMETHING, FOUND SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW THAT COMES INTO YOUR MIND AS A THOUGHT OF INSPIRATION OR EXCITEMENT THAT YOU COULD SHARE WITH THE AUDIENCE?

>>THERE'S SO MANY THINGS THERE.

I MEAN, BEING A SCIENTIST IS ONE OF THE COOLEST THINGS YOU COULD POSSIBLY BE BECAUSE YOU YOURSELF ARE LITERALLY DISCOVERING SOMETHING THAT NO ONE HAS KNOWN ABOUT BEFORE.

AND AS A PALEONTOLOGIST, EVERY TIME YOU GO TO A REMOTE AREA AND START WALKING AROUND WITH EDUCATED EYES, YOU CAN FIND THINGS NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN BEFORE.

AND I GOT TO SAY, IT'S BEEN A PHENOMENAL CAREER THAT I HAVE A LIST OF OVER A HUNDRED THINGS I'VE DISCOVERED WHERE I'M LIKE, "WOW, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO FIND THAT THING AND SEE IT."

AND WHEN YOU CAN PUT THAT WITH SOME OTHER DATA, AND SUDDENLY AN INSIGHT COMES, YOU ACTUALLY JUST DISCOVER CONCEPTS AND YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORLD AND YOU SHARE THAT THROUGH THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS WITH OTHER SCIENTISTS.

BUT SO MUCH OF IT IS SO EXCITING THAT IT'S REALLY WORTH SHARING WITH THE PUBLIC AS WELL.

IN THE NORTH CAROLINA STATE MUSEUM, WHERE THEY ANNOUNCED THESE TWO INCREDIBLE DINOSAURS THAT WERE FOUND TOGETHER, THAT THEY CALL THE DUELING DINOSAURS THAT ARE FOUND IN 2006 IN MONTANA.

AND THOSE KINDS OF DISCOVERIES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME IN SCIENCE.

AND SCIENCE PUBLISHES NEW SCIENCE ON A DAILY BASIS, THINGS ARE BEING DISCOVERED.

SO IF YOU THINK, YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON UNDER THE WORLD, JUST WAIT TWO WEEKS AND SCIENTIST FILL IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF NEW DISCOVERIES.

AND TO BE PART OF THAT PROCESS IS JUST A DAILY THRILL.

AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME AND I LIKE BEING OUTSIDE ALL THE TIME, GETTING OUTSIDE AND DISCOVERING THINGS IS JUST REMARKABLE.

AND I THINK, ONE OF THE THINGS I'LL SAY ABOUT SCIENCE IS THAT WHEN YOU'RE A SPECIALIST SCIENTIST, MOST SCIENTISTS SPECIALIZE IN SOMETHING.

YOU HAVE A FEW COLLEAGUES AROUND THE WORLD.

I'M A PALEOBOTANISTS, THERE'S SEVERAL HUNDRED PALEOBOTANISTS AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT MEANS THAT I HAVE COLLEAGUES IN MANY, MANY, MANY COUNTRIES WHO SPEAK MANY, MANY DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

AND BEING A SCIENTIST ALLOWS YOU TO BE A GLOBAL CITIZEN AND HAVE FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES ALL AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THE SAME THING YOU'RE INTERESTED IN, BUT THEY COME FROM DIFFERENT CULTURES.

I THINK THAT BEING A SCIENTIST IS ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO BE ALERT TO THE DIVERSITY OF THE PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH AND BE AWARE THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS OF THINKING, BUT ULTIMATELY WE'RE ALL HUMANS.

WE'RE ALL INTERESTED IN HOW KNOWLEDGE IS CREATED AND DISSEMINATED.

>>SO YOU FOCUSED A LOT IN RECENT YEARS ON THE POLAR REGIONS.

COULD YOU TELL US A LITTLE WHY?

>>I WENT TO THE POLAR REGIONS BY ACCIDENT WHEN I WAS 20 YEARS OLD AND AGAIN WHEN I WAS 24.

AND THOSE TWO INITIAL TRIPS BLEW MY MIND BECAUSE I GREW UP IN SEATTLE IN A NORMAL, MID LATITUDE KIND OF LIFESTYLE, WE ALL HAVE MOST PEOPLE LIVE SORT OF MORE OR LESS NEAR THE EQUATOR, NOT TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE EQUATOR.

BUT GOING TO THE POLAR REGIONS, YOU EXPERIENCE A WORLD THAT IS SO DIFFERENT FROM THE REST OF THE PLANET EARTH THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE YOU'RE ON THE SAME PLANET.

I MEAN, YOU ENCOUNTER ICE SHEETS THAT ARE THREE MILES THICK AND GO FOR HUNDREDS OF MILES.

THAT'S GREENLAND, THE ICE CAP ON GREENLAND.

OR TO GO TO A PLACE WHERE THE GROUND IS FROZEN TO A DEPTH OF 3000 FEET OR THE SEA FREEZES SOLID AND THIS LAYER OF ICE ACROSS THE TOP OF THE SEA IN THE WINTER AND THE ANIMALS THAT LIVE THERE LIVE THERE IN TOTAL DARKNESS FOR THREE MONTHS IN A YEAR, IT'S LIKE GOING TO A DIFFERENT PLANET.

AND I DISCOVERED THAT PLANET, IT'S CALLED THE ARCTIC WHEN I WAS 20 YEARS OLD.

AND I WAS LIKE, "HOW COME NOBODY GOES TO THE ARCTIC?"

I MEAN, IF YOU GO UP THERE, THERE'S HARDLY ANYBODY THERE.

IT'S HARD TO GET THERE.

AND WE COME BACK DOWN TO THE MID-LATITUDES.

PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU HAVE TO SHOW THEIR PICTURES.

THEY KNOW TRULY I WAS ON THIS ICE SHEET THAT WAS THREE MILES THICK, WALKING ON THE TOP OF THREE MILES OF ICE.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN CHICAGO OR TAMPA.

AND SO IT'S THE CLOSEST TO BEING AN ASTRONAUT YOU CAN GET WITHOUT GETTING IN A SPACESHIP.

AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BREATHING OXYGEN AND WEARING A SUIT.

YOU JUST GO TO THE ARCTIC AND THE ANTARCTIC IS EVEN LARGER AND MORE AMAZING.

SO ONCE YOU'VE BEEN THERE, YOU WANT TO GO BACK AND THIS IS TRUE FOR MOST PEOPLE HAVE EVER BEEN TO THE ARCTIC.

IT BLOWS THEIR MINDS THAT NO ONE TOLD THEM ABOUT IT SOONER.

>>OUR AUDIENCE IS INTERESTED IN SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.

TALK TO US ABOUT OUR STATE AND WHAT YOU SEE HAPPENING, AND MAYBE HOW WE COULD HELP TO PREVENT THINGS FROM GETTING WORSE HERE SPECIFICALLY?

>>FLORIDA'S AN AMAZING STATE.

OBVIOUSLY IT'S VERY LOW ELEVATION STATE.

I THINK THE HIGHEST ELEVATION OF FLORIDA IS JUST A LITTLE OVER 300 FEET HIGH, BUT MUCH OF THE MUCH OF THE STATE IS ACTUALLY WITHIN A FEW DOZEN FEET OF BEING AT SEA LEVEL.

AND WE KNOW THAT MUCH OF FLORIDA WAS COVERED BY THE SEA AS RECENTLY AS 120,000 YEARS AGO.

SO WHEN SEA LEVEL RISES, FLORIDA IS GOING TO BE THE DIPSTICK FOR OUR NATION.

IT WILL TELL US THAT THE SEA LEVEL IS COMING UP.

AND WE'RE SEEING THAT ALREADY IN MIAMI IS THOSE HIGH TIDES COME IN AND FLOOD THE STREETS IN MIAMI.

THE WHOLE GULF COAST IS EXPERIENCING THIS THING.

SO ONE OF THE MOST OBVIOUS THINGS, I MEAN, FLORIDA REALLY CAPTURES TWO THINGS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE, IT GETS BOTH THE EFFECTS AND THE IMPACTS OF THE WARMING OCEANS AND THE STRONGER AND MORE FREQUENT STORMS.

AND IT ALSO GETS THIS INCREASED SEA LEVEL EFFECT AND THE SEA LEVEL OF COURSE.

THE SEA GETS MOVED AROUND BY STORM.

SO YOU GET A BIG STORM, IT CAN PUSH WATER AND A STORM SURGES AND FLOOD AREAS.

WE ALL KNOW THAT ABOUT FLORIDA NOW.

AND THE QUESTION REALLY IS HOW FAST WILL THE SEA RISE AND HOW FAST WILL FLORIDA BECOME AN EXAMPLE THAT'S TOO OBVIOUS TO IGNORE.

AND WHAT SCIENTISTS ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW IS THAT BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY, SO BY THE TIME A 10 YEAR OLD OR A 20 YEAR OLD, IS AT THE END OF THE CENTURY, 80 YEARS FROM NOW, FLORIDA, WE'LL PROBABLY SEE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THREE AND MAYBE AS MUCH AS NINE FEET OF SEA LEVEL RISE.

SO YOU CAN SORT OF DO YOUR OWN MAP.

THERE'S PLENTY OF MAPS TO SHOW YOU WHERE THE ELEVATION OF WHERE YOU LIVE IS NOW AND WHAT NINE FEET OF SEA LEVEL RISE WILL DO TO YOU.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE A WHILE FOR ALL OF GREENLAND TO MELT AND ALL OF ANTARCTICA.

SO WE'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT THOSE LONGER-TERM PROBLEMS, BUT IN THE SHORT TERM, THREE TO NINE FEET IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT NUMBER DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE.

AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES FLORIDA LIKE WASHINGTON, D.C.

I MEAN, THE MUSEUM I'M SITTING IN RIGHT NOW IN THE NATIONAL MALL IS ALSO AT SEA LEVEL.

SO THE NATIONAL MALL ITSELF WILL EXPERIENCE THE IMPACTS OF SEA LEVEL RISE OVER THE NEXT 80 YEARS THAT WILL BE OBVIOUS TO ALL OF US.

>>WELL, KIRK, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, BUT I WANT TO CLOSE BY ASKING YOU WHAT'S THE NEXT PROJECT FOR KIRK JOHNSON?

>>WELL, I WORK IN THE LARGEST, MOST AMAZING NATURAL MUSEUM IN THE WORLD ON THE MALL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AND WE SEE MORE THAN 5 MILLION VISITORS A YEAR.

EVERY YEAR MOST OF THOSE ARE 5 MILLION NEW PEOPLE.

SO IN A DECADE I'LL SEE 50 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING.

AND IT'S A PRETTY COOL EXPERIENCE IN THE BUILDING.

WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING HERE IS RE ORIENTING PARTS OF THE BUILDING TO HELP PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE.

I THINK WE'VE NEVER LIVED AT A TIME WHEN THE FUTURE IS MORE IMPORTANT, BUT THE FUTURE, I MEAN THE NEXT 30 YEARS BY 2050.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO REALLY SEE THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE BITE.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE HUMAN RESPONSE.

AND WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO DO IS BE PART OF THE EDUCATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE AND PEOPLE OF ALL AGES THAT UNDERSTAND THE NATURAL WORLD, UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON AND LEARN WHAT THEY CAN DO TO HELP THEMSELVES, THEIR COLLEAGUES AND FRIENDS.

AND IN FACT, ALL NATURAL LIFE ON PLANET EARTH THRIVE IN A CHANGING PLANET.

AND WE CAN DO IT.

IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE EDUCATION AND CONSIDERED EFFORT.

AND SO I WANT TO BE PART OF THAT SOLUTION, THE 21ST CENTURY.

>>KIRK JOHNSON.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>>HEY, MY PLEASURE.

THANKS FOR ASKING THOSE COOL QUESTIONS.

>>AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.