[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - Welcome to "The Songwriters," I'm Ken Paulson.

And today we're actually shooting the show in an interesting place.

Uh, this is actually called, Allentown Studio, and it's where a lot of big hits have been recorded.

A lot of great songs have been recorded and we're honored to be here.

And we're doubly honored to have our guest today, Kix Brooks.

Welcome, Kix.

- Thank you very nice Ken, appreciate that.

- I, uh, you know, I-I kind of made it simple because you got so many crazy accolades.

You got this monster resume, but just abbreviated, you're a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame?

- Don't don't.

No, no, no- please.

- You're a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame, - [laugh] and the newest member of the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

That's rarefied air to both of those.

That's, that's Hank Williams and Johnny Cash territory.

Uh, so, congratulations.

So, we're delighted to have you be a part of this.

- Thanks and for the record, uh, Johnny Cash and Hank Williams will never be my peers.

[laughs] - I- I am a fan first, you know.

There's a reason we dedicate our lives to this, you know.

- Yeah.

- We, we have our idols, and they're certainly two of 'em.

- Absolutely.

And, uh, the- there's a reason we're still talking about them, - Yeah.

[laughs] - today.

- Well.

[clears throat] - I-I suspect much of your work will last and endure as well.

Um, and, and, your work began, um, well, let's- decades ago.

You came to this town pursuing fame and fortune.

Were you going to be a singer-songwriter or, or just a songwriter in the beginning?

- Um, I'm not sure I was pursuing fame and fortune, honestly.

I mean, I really did- I came from Louisiana and, um, it was-, I-I grew up like a couple of blocks from where Hank Williams' last home was.

And it was a little white house like, like us, you know, a little three-bedroom house in a regular neighborhood and, and Johnny Horton was married to Billie Jean Horton.

Her daughter was- went to grade school with me, is kind of how I became close to all that, 'cause my first gig was in their driveway.

[laughs] With my band, The Originals, there are probably, you know, ten groups called, The Originals.

But when we were in the sixth grade, yeah- - [laughs] - Twelve years old, we all played guitar and, you know, it, it was loud and messy but, um... - So what year would that have been?

- That was, gosh, several semesters ago.

- Yeah, with, uh- - Yeah.

- Late 60's?

- Um.

- Early 70's?

- No, it was- that would have been, you know, '66, '67.

- So Monkees, you were probably doing Monkees songs.

- Uh, you know, we did actually, um, we did actually play something by The Monkees.

- Were you a rock or a country then?

- "For Your Love" we, we played everything.

You know, I played, "Hey Good Lookin'."

I played, - [laughs] - "Can't Get No Satisfaction," you know, we did it all.

- "Hey Good Lookin'" is particularly powerful in the sixth grade.

- Uh huh, yeah.

- It's a very effective song.

- It's- Yeah.

[laughs] - So, um...

Were you good?

- No.

- In the sixth grade you were, like, ready to go.

- No, no, and when I mention fame and fortune, I really- when I was in college and I-I really started trying to write songs and whatever.

And I was chasing all those guys sent from Austin, you know, Jerry Jeff and Guy Clark, and all those guys were my heroes.

I didn't really know- and, and The Allman Brothers and all that kind of stuff.

You know, we were in college and it's, it's why I don't let people throw rocks at, at country music today, going, "That ain't Country music."

Because we were influenced- those were Ronnie and I's influences, you know.

- Right.

- We're- it's funny, people accuse us of playing traditional Country music and we write some- we write some songs like that, but we always turned our guitars up too loud, you know.

[laughs] - I don't think they would have liked us at the Opry very much a few years ago, you know.

[crosstalk] But I really just wanted to be a singer- a singer songwriter.

I wanted to- if I could make enough to pay my rent, which at that time was, you know, went from $100 to $200.

And, generally I could scrape out fifty bucks a night and some- playin' some, whatever kind of gig.

You know, you get five or six gigs under your belt and the rest is beer money.

I didn't have homeowners insurance [laughs] or anything, you know.

It's really all I wanted to do.

I felt like I could have a happy life like that.

[laughs] - If Jerry Jeff was a role model that [laughs] there, there would... [laughs] - He was and we were both in really bad shape back then.

[laughs] - Seven- seventies were, uh, well, I don't really remember.

[laughs] - Uh, so, for those who are tuning in and know the name Kix Brooks, I ju- I just wanna confirm, yes, Brooks and Dunn, this is the guy.

But this show's about- your extraordinary career as a-, as a songwriter and, um, and also what you've done on stages all over the world.

The first success you had, what was the first cut you had that said, "Yeah, you know "Kix, you may do this."

- Well, I mean I remember it well.

It's- except for when I got the news that I was gonna be included in this, esteemed bunch of writers that mean so much to me.

Uh, my first cut- and I told this to my wife, it's the last time I really remember, certainly, being emotionally overcome.

Uh, was, it was, it was my first cut 'cause, it was on a Oak Ridge Boys album.

Uh, that was God, probably '81 or something.

It was on the "Bobbie Sue" album.

- Oh, wow.

- And, I think you said you knew Dan Tyler.

- I do know Dan Tyler.

- Yep, and he wrote "Bobbie Sue" as you know, and that's kind of how we met.

But, I wrote a song called, "Old Kentucky Song."

that was, that was on that album.

And, um, you know, it was a million sellin' album.

So, even if you don't have a single or nobody ever hears it at that time, it's a million time seven cents, if you're, you know, you're writers portion of that.

And, uh, Don Gant, who was one of the great publishers ever in this town.

Um, he liked me and he had already told me I could hang out at his publishing company, and write songs with his writers, but he wasn't gonna give me any money, until I was making some money.

And that was it, that- at that point, I got a 100 bucks a week, and I was a professional songwriter, and I can still remember just standing against the wall in my apartment, with tears coming out of my eyes, going, "Wow!"

- That's fantastic.

That's fantastic.

- Yeah, it's getting me right now.

- Yeah, that the, um- that's the something overlooked sometimes.

In the songwriting world it's not only the quality of your song, it's the sales of the album it shows up on, um.

- Mm-hmm.

- Sharon Vaughn was, was here on the show not long ago and, you know, her- "My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys" was eventually a huge hit.

- Uh-huh.

- For Willie- - Right.

- Willie Nelson.

- But before- - Great song.

- it showed up on this compilation called, "Outlaws."

[chuckles] - Yeah.

Yeah - Which turned out to be just total shock, ah- Tompall Glaser and [clears throat] everybody on there it, it- Jessi Colter and it became this, cult classic and she sold - [chuckles] Cold, no- "Cold Stone" sell millions of copies.

- [laughs] - So, anyway, um, that had to be a confidence builder.

- It was, it was just- and, and Don really took me under his wing and all, it, it, you know, the writers there, they didn't know me and I was, I was new to the, to the page, but they're like, "That's a cool song, Kix just got an Oak Ridge Boys cut," you know, it's people look at you a little different when you're not going.

"I gotta hold," [laughs] you know, which means somebody likes your song out there along with four other, other songs that they're holding, that might make it to the album.

That's what you hear around town a lot.

So, I actually got a cut.

- So after- we will talk about the Brooks & Dunn years.

But after the Brooks & Dunn years, came a solo album and I heard people over and over again, say, "It's Kix first solo record."

No.

That's what, 1979?

[laughs] - Something like that, yeah.

- And, and how did you get the deal?

Was it on the strength of, of your songwriting or?

I've seen your guitar playing, that had to be a part of it.

- Um, ah, you know, I think, um, just, I had been singing a lot around town.

Tree Publishing, which is the largest independent publisher.

Lot of those writers, Bobby Braddock, and all those guys were, were hiring me constantly to sing their demos, ah, for the songs they were writing.

So, people had just been hearing my voice a lot, and I'd been getting some calls and ah, was doin' all kind of ad jingles and just sorta it was- people were liking my singing enough that I was getting hired, you know, that was like twenty bucks a pop, but again, I was just trying to get rent paid and it was, it was all helpful.

So, um, I guess that was it, you know, and I had, I had, I'd always had bands, you know, I had bands in, in college and all that and stuff, and played around a lot, and some people that I- I guess you're talking about my Capitol Records- - Yeah.

- Uh, record.

- 'Cause I- I actually had a deal before that on Avion Records that The Gap Band was on.

- Did that ever get out?

- That, never got- They, they went bankrupt like after my record was made, fixin' to come out- one of those stories.

- Yeah.

- But anyway, yeah.

So Capitol didn't- had some good songs on it, I think, you know, um, "Sacred Ground" was on there which turned out to be a number one for McBride and The Ride.

Um, so, you know, there's some good songs just, you know, never really panned out and, and I remember talking to Mr. Crutchfield, who was head of the label at the time.

I'd heard from some radio stations that, "Look, they're "not working this record."

And, I'm like, "Okay."

'Cause I was out trying to work it, you know.

I just went and sat down with him and said, "Listen, I'm a songwriter man."

says, "I got songs on here "that don't need to go to 20 and 30 and die "if you can get them that far, you know, - [laughs] "'cause I don't think you're really into what I'm doing."

He goes, he said, I'm sorry Kix 'cause I-" and he wasn't the guy that signed me.

He said, "I really don't get it."

I go, "Then let's, let's shake hands and, and part ways."

- [laughs] - And, you know, that was just a year, two before Tim Dubois heard a demo I was pitching to somebody and, and um- yeah, introduced me to Ronnie Dunn.

So, life's got a way.

- I think the first, uh, piece of music I've heard from you was probably the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, - Mm.

- Uh, in what 1985?

- That's good, you know better than me, but that's, that's around that period, yeah.

- And that went to number one as well.

- Yeah.

- Which was a huge- ah, a huge thing for me 'cause I was a big Dirt Band fan.

And, and again, those were- where I was playing bars in Shreveport and Texas, and down there and whatever, they were the guys.

There was a guy- Jimmy Long's the meanest baddest SOB you could, would ever- This guy fought like crazy.

Ah, always had a gun in his, you know- [chuckles] - in the small of his back.

I mean, he was a bad dude.

And this big bar that the Dirt Band- I'd, I'd opened for 'em one night and, ah, he was over there shaking a pinball machine, you know, just- And Jeff Hannah would not allow pinball machines, wouldn't allow lights over a pool table while they were performing.

It's good, but he goes, "When we're doing our deal-" And he personally walked the perimeter of that place and he went through there turning out the lights on the pool tables and he got to that pinball machine and Jimmy Long's just slamming that thing and he just reached under there and yanked that chord out of there, just looked him and went, "Dude, you have no idea what a badass you are."

[both laughing] And, and of course he loved that band.

"Mr. Bojangles," Jerry Jeff, the whole thing.

[laughs] [guitar music] - No.

Naw- I hadn't played that in a long time.

- Let's do that.

Could you play a little bit of "Modern Day Romance"?

♪ We met on the highway ♪ [guitar music] ♪ And she flagged me down ♪ [guitar music] ♪ Had a flat on her Stingray, with nobody around ♪ [guitar music] ♪ Now, I helped her out ♪ [guitar music] ♪ She said, "Climb in" ♪ [guitar music] ♪ And I ditched my old truck ♪ ♪ Just to see where the party would end ♪ [guitar music] ♪ It's a modern day romance, a new kind of game ♪ ♪ With no time to slow dance, in the fast lane ♪ ♪ Yeah, I tried to love her, without any strings ♪ [guitar music] ♪ But a modern day romance left me ♪ ♪ Some old-fashioned pain ♪ [guitar music] - Something like that.

[strums guitar] [laughs] - Very, very good to hear that song.

And that revived the Dirt Band's career too, that- - I don't know if they were ever un-revived, but, [laughs] - There were a few years without hits but... - It was great, to be friends with Jeff Hannah because of that though and we still are, those, those are the things that's greatest for a songwriter.

You know, your... your hero's are out there when they record your songs and to think of all the songs in Nashville, they got pitched, that, that was one he liked enough to record, makes you feel good.

- Yeah.

Well, you mentioned, uh, being Tim DuBois introducing you to, to have Mr. Dunn, um, and i-it changed everything.

I mean, it changed, not only were you guys huge, it changed duos, you know, like...[laughs] Suddenly duos were cool again, which last happened I think with the "Everly Brothers" [laughs] I'm, I'm not entirely sure.

Um, and, and then you were able to, you know, contribute to the writing of this incredibly popular band.

But I, I was thinking about this the other day that when you were the hottest act in, in country music, everyone wants to get a copy.

- Garth might take exception to that, but go ahead.

[laughs] - He's not here today.

Although he has a little ownership of the studio so- [laughs] this may never see air.

[laughs] Uh... and everybody wants you to cut their song.

But inside Brooks & Dunn are two fine songwriters both of whom are now in the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

And it had to be kind of Beatle-esque.

I- I'm not saying that you were George, or that you are- or that you were Paul, but there is this dynamic of who gets the single, and, um- and who do you record?

Because you've got all these guys from Music Row, offering really good songs.

What was that?

How did that work?

How did you get your voice in the mix?

- Well, I think early on, you know, my voice was respected and, and Ronnie Dunn, just, you know, he's got an incred- he's an incredible singer, you know.

He's a- unusually, ah, good singer.

- Yeah - So, you know it, it was, it just became obvious after a while, you know, his voice was really gonna be the voice, the voice of the bands, I guess, not to put ourselves in the same air but sort of like Henley eventually became the singer for the Eagles more or less, you know.

But I still love Glenn Frey singing.

- I was gonna say, it's okay to be Glenn Frey.

[laughs] - And I really did, you know, I mean, "New Kid in Town" and some of those records.

His voice was really important to that band.

- Mm-hmm.

And, uh, and I tried to, um, you know, um, I tried to find songs and write songs that, that fit the singer-songwriter in me, you know, and Ronnie really was a, a really strong dancehall singer, you know, solid honky-tonk singer, which was what we were, you know, the songs we were writing too.

I mean, we met on Tuesday, we wrote "Brand New Man" on Thursday and, and, uh, "Next Broken Heart" on Friday, Don Cook and I were already writing a lot of those kind of songs, you know, and Ronnie loved that and jumped in.

We, we hit it off pretty quick.

- That's great.

- You know, in that, in that creative ilk.

And, fortunately, there were songs like, "You're Gonna Miss Me" and stuff like that, that did fit my voice that, that radio welcomed too, so.

- And uh- - It was a little dimension, you know.

- Let, let's talk about, ah, "You're Gonna Miss Me".

Um, that, that was number one, you sang lead on that.

What was the origin of that song?

- [chuckles] It's pretty funny, 'cause we, we started writing th-the song and, I-I think I had that title.

Um, but me and Ronnie and Don, were actually, Don Cook, ah, who was producing us with Scott Hendricks at the time, we were out riding the bus together.

And, uh, we did a lot of that.

We wrote a lot of songs together and, um, Don's just a great writer and a, and a good influence, you know, We kinda- we needed a referee to some extent, you know, just- when you're kicking lines back and forth and when, "I think that's good."

"Well, I don't."

you know, that- - [laughs] those conversations Don's like, "I don't either."

you know.

"We can beat that', or, or- "Now, that's really cool, what if we put this line behind it?"

So, he was a great, ah, mediator and just a great songwriter.

But anyway, we, we wrote these verses and, uh, and we got to wherever we were going we didn't have a chorus for the song and I said, "Well, whatever, we'll get around to it."

We never did.

We were in the studio recording and went like, I said, "Man, I still love 'You're Gonna Miss Me" "that thing has, it's got great ver-verses in it.

"Let's just record it.

"If we have to, heck, we can edit it "and write some choruses for it, "but let's put it down," you know?

And, uh, and we had that little "Oouu-oouu" in the middle of it.

Um, I said, "You know, that bridge we need "to write something for that too," of course, we never did.

- [laughs] Which after a couple of weeks at number one, I was like, "We've been working too hard."

[laughs] - So, that's kind of cool.

I, ah, I can probably remember that Ronnie and I still do that.

[gentle guitar music] ♪ I'm still hurting from the last time ♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ You walked on this heart of mine ♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ I can't find much to believe in ♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ Let me down so many times ♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ Heaven knows how much I love you ♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ But I'm tired of holding on ♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ You better kiss me ♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ 'cause you're gonna miss me when I'm gone ♪ [gentle guitar music] - Yeah, something like that.

- The, uh, the song that, um, you wrote, "Only In America," I- I just marvel at that a-and I tell you why, the- I think the two hardest songs to write, kinds of songs to write are Christmas songs - [laughs] - and patriotic songs.

And I think it's 'cause both topics are so, have so much baggage and both of them lend themselves with cliches.

- Mm-hmm.

- And, uh, "Only In America," is just joyous, you know, it- you- it you people listen to that and they feel good about themselves [chuckles] and they feel about, good about the country.

Um, but with all due apologies to Lee Greenwood, it's not that.

- Mm-hmm.

- It's just, it's just a buoyant kind of record.

Um, not terribly specific in the, 147 reasons you should love America.

It's just, it just is, I don't know how to explain any more than that, but, but the kind of work um, I do, part of my career involves talking to young people about music that matters, songs, uh, songs by, ah, everybody from Tom Paxton to Woody Guthrie, all the way through to the present.

- Mm-hmm.

And that's a song I will often mention as, sort of, being a parallel to "This Land is Your Land".

- [laughs] - Done a half century later.

- Mm-hmm.

- Not as subversive.

There are lyrics to Woody that Brooks & Dunn wouldn't really embrace but, but ah, but it's, it's, it's has a kindred spirit anyway.

- Yeah.

- I wonder if you could do a little bit of that and tell me a little bit where that came from?

- Again, that was, uh, me and Don Cook were actually out at my farm.

Um, and ah, with Ronnie Rogers.

And we were riding four-wheelers out in the woods, you know, just had a great day and came down and, uh, a little writing room I have there and, you know, we just s-s-said, you know, "We're just grown men being corny about how lucky we are "that we got born on this part of the planet."

You know, I mean, think about that it's just that much is a huge deal.

You know, we really are blessed with a lot of freedoms and whatever.

And, man, we just got all over it and I said, "Let's just write it.

Let's do it now," you know And, yeah, and I had that title, um, which I didn't have 'till we were talking, you know.

I say, "Yeah only in America, man."

And it's funny 'cause you know, there's, uh, there's- you can say you can't copyright a title and I go, "Have y'all ever heard that?"

I'm asking, you know, my co-writers there that day and they said, "I haven't."

I go, "Me either."

I found out there's 31 titles in the BMI catalog - [laughs] called, "Only In America", you know, it's not like- - Jay, Jay and the Americans.

-Yeah.

- Late 60s.

Yeah.

[strums guitar] - Anyway, uh- - This was the best-selling of them all though.

- Naw, it- [laughs] I don't know.

I was glad, uh, not to get whatever, but, um, man, as horrible as, as 9/11 was, and it was that time when I still- I still cherish the time that as Americans, we really all embraced each other.

- Yeah.

- We, in my lifetime have never come together, - Yeah.

- even close to that.

- Yeah.

- It's like there was no Republican, Democrat, nothing at that time.

Everybody was telling policemen and everybody, "Thank you for your service" and all.

It's just- I can still remember that and know in my heart as Americans we are together, you know, it's, I'm [strums guitar] and I-I'm glad with that song- we had that song before that happened.

A- I think it was midway in the charts or something at that time but- [exhales sharply] [guitar music] - I don't know how much time we got, but I got to tell you the first time we played that after 9/11, we, we played the concert.

It just dawned on me in Pennsylvania, we were just miles away from where that plane went down.

And I- it dawned- that we were opening our show with "Only In America."

And it dawned on me the first line of that song, "Sun coming up over New York City" And I ran and jumped on Ronnie's bus, you know, next door [chuckles] and I said, "Dude, did you think-" I said, "Wow!"

"'Cause everybody was wondering are we going to do something- "is this inappropriate?"

You know, I mean we're "Boot Scootin' Boogie," we're bouncing around having a big time every night, it's just- after this horrible thing that happened to everybody, all these people and, you know, Ronnie wrote this really cool paragraph that basically said, "We're not "gonna let these SOB's "change the way we live our lives.

- Right.

"We're just not going to let it happen.

"So, we're coming out tonight."

Did it- before we came on stage, he was a voice of God backstage, not to be blasphemous, obviously, but he, he spoke it in a, in a really real way and we came out, and we sat on the front of that stage for- not exaggerating, at least 15 minutes, hearing that crowd chant, "USA!"

and whatever, and they'd all brought signs and whatever.

And I just went, "Man, we are strong.

"We really are strong."

It was a- it was a powerful thing for me, yeah.

[guitar music] ♪ Sun comin' up over New York City ♪ [guitar music] ♪ A school bus driver sittin' in a traffic jam ♪ [guitar music] ♪ Starin' at the faces in her rearview mirror ♪ [guitar music] ♪ And she's looking at the promise ♪ ♪ Of the Promised Land ♪ [guitar music] ♪ Now one kid he dreams of the fame and fortune ♪ [guitar music] ♪ One kid might help his mama pay the rent ♪ [guitar music] ♪ One might end up goin' to prison ♪ [guitar music] ♪ In this great country of ours, ♪ ♪ You know, one might be president ♪ ♪ Hard to tell ♪ [guitar music] ♪ Only in America, yeah, we're dreamin' ♪ ♪ In red, white and blue ♪ [guitar music] ♪ Only in America, yeah, we dream as big as we want to ♪ [guitar music] ♪ We all get a chance, yeah ♪ ♪ And everybody gets to dance ♪ [guitar music] ♪ Only in America, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ [guitar music] - Oh!

- [claps] [laughs] [strums guitar] - The time has flown by.

Uh, thank you so much, Kix.

- You bet, thank you.

- And, and one more time, welcome to the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

- Very nice.

Very proud.

Thank you.

[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - For more information about the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, please visit, nashvillesongwriters foundation.com [gentle guitar music]