REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED TO HAVE ONE OF MY FAVORITE WRITERS HERE KYLE DICKMAN, WHO IS A JOURNALIST, AN AUTHOR, FORMER EDITOR OF OUTSIDE MAGAZINE AND HE IS THE AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK, ON THE BURNING EDGE A FATEFUL FIRE AND THE MEN WHO FOUGHT IT.

THIS IS A COMPELLING READ.

SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND AND TELL ME ABOUT THIS BOOK ON THE BURNING EDGE .

>>KYLE: YEAH, SURE.

SO, I WROTE THAT BOOK BECAUSE I USED TO FIGHT FIRES.

I USED TO WORK IN CALIFORNIA IN THE TAHOE NATIONAL FOREST FOR FIVE SEASONS AND AFTER I FINISHED FIGHTING FIRES, I GOT INTO JOURNALISM AND I CAME TO OUTSIDE MAGAZINE .

IN 2013, THERE WAS A TRAGEDY FIRE WHERE 19 GUYS DIED FIGHTING THE YARNELL HILL FIRE IN ARIZONA.

I REPORTED A LONG PIECE ON THAT FOR OUTSIDE AND THEN THAT PIECE TURNED INTO THE BOOK, ON THE BURNING EDGE .

>>LORENE: WELL, IT IS A COMPELLING READ.

YOU ARE ONE OF MY FAVORITE JOURNALISTS.

YOU DO SOMETHING WHERE YOU WILL DO THE WHOLE HISTORICAL BACKGROUND, BUT THE CLOSE-UPS OF THE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE ARE SO COMPELLING AND IT MAKES IT SUCH GOOD READING.

ANOTHER PIECE THAT YOU DID THAT I JUST LOVE AND YOU CAN FIND THESE ON OUTSIDE.COM, IS THAT WHAT IT IS, OUTSIDE MAGAZINE'S WEBSITE WHERE THEY DO THE LONG FORM.

YOU DID ONE CALLED "PARADISE LOST," WHICH WAS A LONG PIECE ABOUT THE CAMPFIRE NOT LIKE WHERE YOU TOAST MARSHMALLOWS, BUT THAT IS WHAT THEY NAMED ONE OF THE WORST FIRES IN CALIFORNIA THAT BURNED THE TOWN OF PARADISE.

BUT, AGAIN, IT WAS SO BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN AND THE INTIMATE CLOSE-UPS OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE AFFECTED I JUST CAN'T RECOMMEND IT ENOUGH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR WRITING.

>>KYLE: WELL THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT, I APPRECIATE THAT.

>>LORENE: SO I AM CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THESE FOREST FIRES ALL OVER AMERICA BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD IN GREECE AND TURKEY, IN MINNESOTA BUT CALIFORNIA IS REALLY ON THE MAP FOR HUGE FIRES WHERE THEY ARE FIGHTING THE CALDER FIRE NOW AND THE DIXIE FIRE, THESE ARE TWO OF THE BIGGEST FIRES AND THEY ARE VERY CLOSE TOGETHER.

EVEN THE BOOTLEG FIRE IN OREGON IS CREATING ITS OWN WEATHER.

SO TELL ME, IS IT CLIMATE CHANGE, WHAT IS CHANGING, WHAT CAN WE DO AND A LITTLE BIT OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF FIGHTING FOREST FIRES, DO WE HAVE TO MAKE SOME CHANGES BECAUSE OF THE SCALE OF THESE HUGE FIRES WE ARE FIGHTING NOW.

>>KYLE: NO, I MEAN THOSE ARE EXCELLENT QUESTIONS.

SO I GUESS I WILL START WITH IS IT CLIMATE CHANGE, YES, IT IS CLIMATE CHANGE, PARTIALLY, BUT IT IS ALSO OTHER ISSUES THINGS LIKE FOREST MANAGEMENT AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IN CALIFORNIA IS INCREASING.

SO, IT IS ALL OF THESE THINGS COMBINED THAT CREATE MORE DISASTROUS FIRES IN A PLACE THAT HAS ALWAYS BURNED AND IT ALWAYS WILL BURN.

I MEAN FIRE IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THAT ECOSYSTEM AND SO YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO GET RID OF FIRE THERE, THE REAL QUESTION IS HOW DO WE LIVE WITH IT?

UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE A VERY GOOD ANSWER TO THAT.

SO WE KEEP DOING THE SAME THING THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE FOR AT LEAST FOR THE PAST 100 YEARS, 120 YEARS NOW, IS WHEN A FIRE STARTS, WE AGGRESSIVELY TRY TO PUT IT OUT WITH HOTSHOT CREWS AND FIRE ENGINES AND AIR TANKERS AND WE DUMP WATER ON IT AND CUT A LINE AROUND IT AND TRY TO GET IT TO STOP.

BUT BY DOING THAT, YOU STOP A FIRE THAT NATURALLY SORT OF THINS OUT THE FOREST, TAKES OUT SOME OF THE HEAVIER FUELS AND YOU ALLOW THAT STUFF TO BUILD UP OVER TIME THEREBY CREATING MORE INTENSE FIRES IN THE FUTURE.

SO YOU PUT ALL THAT EXTRA FUEL IN THERE, YOU ADD A CLIMATE THAT IS ONE OR TWO DEGREES WARMER FAHRENHEIT THAN IT HAS BEEN HISTORICALLY AND YOU GET JUST SORT OF A RECIPE FOR DISASTER AND WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THAT.

>>LORENE: AND ANOTHER ELEMENT OF THAT RECIPE FOR DISASTER IS THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE MOVING MORE AND MORE INTO AREAS THAT USED TO BE WILDERNESS.

I HAVE FRIENDS IN COLORADO WHO ARE MANIACS ABOUT WHAT IS CALLED "FIRESCAPING" THAT YOU SHOULD GET RID OF TREES OVER YOUR HOUSE AND IF YOU HAVE A SHINGLE ROOF, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET A NON-FLAMMABLE ROOF AND IF YOU HAVE WOODEN DECKS, HOW ABOUT FLAGSTONE.

YOU KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF PREVENTIVE METHODS THAT YOU CAN TAKE.

TALK TO ME A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR WORK WITH THE PARADISE FIRE, THE CAMPFIRE AND PARADISE LOST BECAUSE THAT WAS SO HUGE.

>>KYLE: YEAH, I DON'T KNOW, FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT, IT WAS 2018.

IT WAS THE FALL OF 2018 AND THERE WAS THIS WIND EVENT THAT STARTED AND DURING THIS WIND EVENT, A POWER LINE FELL DOWN, IT WAS A PG&E POWER LINE AND IT SPARKED A FIRE.

IT WAS EARLY IN THE MORNING AND THE FIRE JUST GOT INCREDIBLY BIG, VERY, VERY QUICKLY, IT WAS WIND DRIVEN SO IT SPREAD VERY QUICKLY TO REALLY DRY GRASSES, REALLY DRY TREES AND IT RAN STRAIGHT THROUGH THE TOWN OF PARADISE, CALIFORNIA AND IT JUST COMPLETELY DESTROYED IT.

I HAVE REPORTED ON FIRES FOR 10 TO 12 YEARS NOW AND I HAVE BEEN TO SORT OF A SURPRISING NUMBER OF THESE WILD AND URBAN INTERFACE FIRES AS THEY CALL THEM, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

IT WAS LIKE DRIVING THROUGH DRESDEN AFTER THE FIRE BOMBINGS, IT WAS JUST HORRIFIC.

>>LORENE: BUT YOU DID DESCRIBE ONE OF THE RESIDENTS OF THAT TOWN WHO WENT OUT IN HIS CAR TO PICK UP PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO RUN FROM THE FIRE, YOU KNOW, THEIR CARS HAD ALREADY BURNED, THEIR HOUSE HAD BEEN BURNING AND THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO ESCAPE AND HE WOULD SWOOP THEM UP.

>>KYLE: THE FIRE CAME SO QUICKLY THAT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE DIDN'T GET ANY WARNING, RIGHT, SO THEY WENT TO BED AT NIGHT AND THEY WOKE UP AND WHEN THEY LOOKED OUT THEIR WINDOW, THEIR BACKYARD WAS ON FIRE.

AND SO IT WASN'T JUST THAT, IT WAS THEIR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE WAS ON FIRE AND SO THE FIRE WAS MOVING QUICKER THAN THEY COULD GET OUT OF TOWN AND SO ALL OF THESE PEOPLE JUMP INTO THEIR VEHICLES AND THEY TRY TO LEAVE TOWN BUT THERE IS ONLY TWO GOOD ESCAPE ROUTES AND BOTH OF THEM ARE CLOGGED BY CARS.

SO EVERYBODY IN THIS TOWN DRIVES STRAIGHT INTO A TRAFFIC JAM AND THE PLACE IS BURNING ALL AROUND THEM.

I MEAN IT WAS HELL ON EARTH, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC.

>>LORENE: AND THERE WERE A LOT OF TRAILERS THERE TOO, AND HAD PEOPLE CHOSEN TO REBUILD IN THE SAME PLACE?

>>KYLE: I THINK SOME OF THEM, YEAH, I MEAN IT IS HARD TO FAULT THEM I THINK.

YOU KNOW THEY BUILT A LIFE THERE AND I THINK THAT IN GENERAL PEOPLE CAN DO A BETTER JOB THINKING ABOUT WHERE THEY PUT HOUSES AND HOW THEY BUILD THOSE HOMES SO THAT THEY ARE MORE FIREPROOF.

BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND THEY ARE ALL GOING TO NEED TO LIVE SOMEWHERE.

IT IS HARD FOR ME TO IMAGINE LOSING MY TOWN LIKE THAT.

LET ME JUST SAY I EMPATHIZE WITH THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DECIDED TO MOVE BACK THERE, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD DO IT BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO.

>>LORENE: AND ALSO IN THE ARTICLE SOME PEOPLE WHOSE HOMES WERE SAVED, THEY NEED SOME WORK, THEY WEREN'T DESTROYED SO THE INSURANCE DIDN'T COMPENSATE THEM BUT THEY KIND OF WISHED THAT THE HOUSE HAD BURNED.

THIS IS A PRIVATE OPINION OF A FEW PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY NEEDED SO MUCH HELP GETTING IT BACK TO A LIVABLE STATE.

>>KYLE: WHAT DO YOU DO, RIGHT, LIKE YOU WORKED SO HARD, I MEAN THE MAN IN THE STORY, HE WAS AN EX-FIREFIGHTER AND HE WORKED, LIKE PULLED OFF SOME REALLY HEROIC FEATS TO SAVE HIS HOUSE AND HE SAVED HIS HOUSE BUT HE SAVED HIS HOUSE IN A TOWN THAT WAS DESTROYED.

AND WHAT DO YOU DO, I THINK HE IS JUST, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT IT.

HOW DO YOU REBUILD A LIFE THERE THAT JUST IS GOING TO TAKE YEARS AND DECADES TO RETURN TO WHAT IT WAS.

>>LORENE: YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THE MOST TRAGIC THING ABOUT FIRE.

THESE KIND OF FIRES IT IS EVERYTHING YOU EVER OWNED, IT'S THE BABY PICTURES OF YOUR CHILDREN AND IT IS MEMENTOS OF YOUR PARENTS.

I MEAN IT IS JUST ALL GONE AND IT'S THE LEVEL OF GRIEF AND BY THE TIME YOU HAVE HAD A WHOLE COMMUNITY SUFFERING THAT TOGETHER IT'S JUST VERY PAINFUL TO EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

>>KYLE: ABSOLUTELY.

>>LORENE: SO ONE OTHER PAINFUL ELEMENT.

YOU WROTE A PIECE IN SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN CALLED "THE HIDDEN TOLL OF WILDFIRES."

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT SOME OF THE HEALTH EFFECTS OF BREATHING BIOMASS SMOKE.

>>KYLE: SURE.

FOR A LONG TIME THERE HASN'T BEEN A WHOLE LOT OF RESEARCH INTO IT, BUT WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT WHEN A FIRE STARTS AND YOU GO AND SEE IT BURNING ALL THAT SMOKE THAT GOES UP INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, EVERYBODY IN NEW MEXICO HAS EXPERIENCED THIS, WHEN YOUR TOWN IS SOCKED INTO SMOKE, WELL THAT AIR HAS SOMETHING IN IT CALLED PM2.5 AND IT IS PARTICLE MATTER THAT IS SMALLER THAN 2.5 MICRONS, THESE ARE LIKE TINY, TINY STUFF.

BUT THE REASON THAT IT IS IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE IT IMBEDS IN YOUR LUNGS, RIGHT, SO THAT IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT NOW BECAUSE WHEN IT IMBEDS IN YOUR LUNGS, YOU CAN BECOME IMMUNOCOMPROMISED AND WHEN YOU ARE IMMUNOCOMPROMISED, YOU ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO ALL SORTS OF ILLNESS.

BUT WHEN YOU HAPPENED TO HAVE A PANDEMIC, IT GETS EVEN WORSE, SO THERE IS A LOT OF RESEARCH GOING ON.

>>LORENE: ESPECIALLY A PANDEMIC WHOSE TARGET IS THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM.

GO AHEAD, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT.

>>KYLE: OH NO, NO PROBLEM.

I MEAN THAT IS THE POINT.

SO THEY ARE DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH, THERE'S A BUNCH OF SCIENTISTS IN A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT GROUPS WHO ARE NOAH GROUPS OR NASA IS ACTUALLY RELATED TO IT AND ACTUALLY HERE AT LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABS THEY ARE DOING RESEARCH ON IT, TOO.

BUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TYPES OF FIRES ARE MOST LIKELY TO PRODUCE CERTAIN TOXINS THAT ARE WORSE FOR YOUR HEALTH THAN OTHERS.

AND SO THEY DO THINGS LIKE, THEY FLY, THE STORY THAT I WROTE THEY WERE FLYING A DC10 SO IT WAS A BIG AIRCRAFT THAT NASA OWNS AND THEY HAD OUTFITTED IT WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENTIFIC EQUIPMENT LIKE AN ENTIRE PAYLOAD INSTEAD OF HAVING PEOPLE IN IT, IT'S FULL OF SCIENTIFIC EQUIPMENT.

AND SO WE TOOK THIS PLANE AND TOOK IT UP INTO AIR THEN FLEW IT STRAIGHT THROUGH SMOKE COLUMNS AND IT WAS PRETTY FUN, RIGHT, LIKE KIND OF A COOL THING TO DO, YOU GO FLY THROUGH SMOKE COLUMNS AND THEN THESE SENSORS SAMPLE ALL OF THIS AIR AND THEY TAKE THESE SAMPLES BACK AND THEY FIGURE OUT WHAT TYPES OF FIRES ARE CORRELATED WITH CERTAIN TYPES OF TOXINS.

AND THEN THEY CAN FORECAST, GO AHEAD.

>>LORENE: AND SO THE ONLY PEOPLE CAN DO, SAY EXAMPLE, THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN LAKE TAHOE WHERE THIS OPPRESSIVE, HEAVY ORANGE, IT IS ALMOST DARK, YOU CAN'T SEE THE SUN.

DOES AN N95 MASK KEEP OUT THOSE PARTICLES IF IT KEEPS OUT VIRUSES AND THE AIR CLEANER, HOW HARD WOULD AN AIR CLEANER HAVE TO WORK TO TRY TO MAKE INTERIOR AIR BREATHABLE EVEN IN ONE ROOM, SO WHAT DO THEY RECOMMEND?

>>KYLE: LEAVING.

I MEAN FRANKLY.

>>LORENE: LEAVING.

>>KYLE: YES, I MEAN WHAT ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO DO, RIGHT?

YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY WEAR THOSE MASKS AND YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE FILTERS, HEPA FILTERS IF YOU CAN AFFORD THEM OR IF THEY ARE AVAILABLE THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE THOSE THINGS.

BUT I THINK IF YOU ARE IMMUNOCOMPROMISED, THEN SITTING AND SUCKING SMOKE FOR WEEKS ON END IS GOING TO HAVE HEALTH IMPACTS.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>KYLE: LIKE I WISH IT WEREN'T THE CASE, BUT IT IS.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH KYLE DICKMAN ABOUT FOREST FIRES AND ABOUT HIS BOOK, ON THE BURNING EDGE .

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SHIFT TO ANOTHER HEALTH ISSUE YOU WRITE ABOUT.

YOU WROTE A BOOK, YOU WROTE AN ARTICLE CALLED, "A RATTLE OF DEATH IN YOSEMITE" AND IT IS WHEN YOU WERE BITTEN BY A RATTLESNAKE ON A FAMILY OUTING WITH A NEWBORN, OFF THE TRAIL.

SO IT IS QUITE A COMPELLING STORY IF YOU CAN GIVE US THE SHORT VERSION OF IT AND THEN WHERE SOME ELEMENTS OF THAT HAVE TAKEN YOU IN FURTHER RESEARCH AND OTHER ARTICLES.

>>KYLE: SURE.

OKAY, MY SON, BRIDGER, WAS BORN IN 2017 AND MY WIFE AND I DECIDED TO TAKE A ROAD TRIP SHORTLY THEREAFTER AND THE LAST STOP ON THIS ROAD TRIP, ALSO THIS WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA IF YOU ARE WONDERING, NOBODY REALLY WANTS TO TAKE A ROAD TRIP WITH SIX WEEK OLD BABIES, BUT WE WERE EXHAUSTED AND WE CAME INTO, MY BROTHER WORKS IN YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK AND WE CAME INTO YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK TO VISIT HIM, MY PARENTS HAPPENED TO BE THERE.

MY WIFE, TARYN, AND I WERE EXHAUSTED AND SO WE STOPPED AND HUNG OUT WITH MY FAMILY AND WOKE UP IN THE MORNING AND WENT FOR A HIKE IN YOSEMITE AND STOPPED AT THIS BRIDGE.

TARYN WAS NURSING BRIDGER AND I WENT FOR A LITTLE WALK AND STEPPED OFF THIS BRIDGE AND GOT TAGGED BY A RATTLESNAKE.

AND I PROBABLY LIKE MOST PEOPLE, DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AFTER GETTING BITTEN BY A RATTLESNAKE, BUT IT TURNED OUT TO BE QUITE A BAD THING.

AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER, I HAD LOST CONSCIOUSNESS AND WAS VOMITING AND MANY HOURS LATER I WAS PICKED UP BY A HELICOPTER AND FLOWN INTO MODESTO AND SPENT EIGHT DAYS IN THE HOSPITAL RECOVERING.

YEAH, IT WAS QUITE A TRIP.

>>LORENE: WELL YOU HAVE PICTURES, THERE ARE PICTURES WITH THE ARTICLE ABOUT THE BRUISING OF YOUR LEG BUT ALSO IT BECAME SWOLLEN TO TWICE ITS NORMAL SIZE AND IT KIND OF MARCHED UP FROM THE BITE ON UP TO YOUR HIP AND YOUR BACK.

>>KYLE: IT WAS TERRIBLE.

YEAH, IT STARTED, MY MOM AND DAD WERE THERE AND THEY WERE BOTH IN SEARCH AND RESCUE AND THEY TOOK A PHOTO OF THE BITE, BASICALLY AS SOON AS IT HAD HAPPENED AND YOU COULD JUST SEE THESE TWO FANG MARKS AND IT IS NOTHING, RIGHT, THEY JUST LOOK LIKE TWO LITTLE BLOOD MARKS.

THEN THEY WOULD TAKE PICTURES OF IT EVERY 40 MINUTES OR WHATEVER IT WAS, AND YOU COULD JUST SEE THE LEG GOING DIT, DIT, DIT AND I THOUGHT THAT ONCE I GOT THE ANTI-VENOM IT WOULD STOP SWELLING AND MAYBE IT DID, BUT IT WAS JUST ENORMOUS.

IT WAS SO BIG THAT I CAN REMEMBER ON DAY SIX OR SOMETHING AFTER IT, LIKE SWINGING MY LEG OUT TO STAND UP ON IT AND I JUST COULDN'T DO IT.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS LIKE SCREAMING IN PAIN AND I THINK THIS MUST BE A COMMON EXPERIENCE FOR ANYBODY WHO HAS BROKEN A LEG BUT I HAD NEVER FELT ANYTHING LIKE THAT THING AND I WAS LIKE, "GIVE ME THE MORPHINE!

GIVE ME THE MORPHINE!"

AND SO THEY DID AND IT ACTUALLY GOT A LOT EASIER AFTER THAT.

>>LORENE: OH, YEAH.

SO YOU BECAME INTERESTED IN ANTI-VENOM AND INTERESTED IN, WELL TALK ABOUT THE ANTI-VENOM AND WHAT IS THE HUMAN ANTI-VENOM PROJECT, TELL ME ABOUT, BECAUSE ONE ARTICLE YOU WROTE WAS, "THE MAN WHO SAID BITE ME," TO 200 SNAKES.

HIS NAME IS TIM FRIEDE?

>>KYLE: YES, TIM FRIEDE IS HIS NAME.

IT WAS ACTUALLY A REALLY FUN ARTICLE AND I REALIZED THAT IT SHOULD MAKE EVERYBODY'S SKIN CRAWL, IT MADE MY SKIN CRAWL.

BUT THERE WAS THIS MAN, TIM FRIEDE, WHO GOT REALLY INTERESTED IN VENOMOUS SNAKES, HE LIVED IN WISCONSIN AND SO HE STARTED TO GET ALL THESE SNAKES AND COLLECT THEM AND THEN HE FOUNDED SOMETHING CALLED SELF-IMMUNIZATION.

SO THE IDEA IS THAT THROUGH, JUST LIKE WITH A VACCINATION, YOU EXPOSE THE BODY TO A LITTLE BIT OF SNAKE VENOM AND THEN YOU BUILD UP ANTIBODIES THROUGH INCREASING DOSES OF THE SNAKE VENOM.

SO EVENTUALLY THE IDEA IS THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH ANTIBODIES IN YOUR SYSTEM TO THAT VENOM THAT YOU CAN SURVIVE A BITE FROM ALL OF THESE SNAKES.

TIM FRIEDE TOOK THIS TO THE EXTREME, LIKE THAT HE WAS GETTING BIT BY COBRAS OF ALL DIFFERENT VARIETIES AND BLACK MAMBAS AND GREEN MAMBAS AND HE WAS ABLE TO SORT OF, HE COULD DO THESE ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

HE WOULD TAKE ONE SNAKE AND PICK IT UP OUT OF A BUCKET AND TAG HIS WRIST WITH IT AND THEN PICK UP ANOTHER AND TAG THE OTHER WRIST WITH IT, IT JUST IS COMPLETELY BONKERS IDEA BUT WHERE IT GETS REALLY INTERESTING IS THAT THIS WAS AN EXTREME THING THAT THIS GUY HAD BEEN DOING FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME 15 YEARS OR SOMETHING.

A FEW YEARS AGO, THIS IMMUNOLOGIST IN CALIFORNIA GOT INTERESTED IN TIM AND INTERESTED IN ANTI-VENOM AND HE SAID, "WELL, I WONDER IF WE COULD TAKE TIM'S BLOOD AND TURN IT INTO A UNIVERSAL ANTI-VENOM.

I WONDER IF THERE IS ENOUGH OVERLAP IN ALL OF THE DIFFERENT ANTIBODIES IN TIM'S BLOOD FOR THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF VENOMS IN SNAKES SO THAT YOU COULD USE THE ANTIBODIES FROM TIM'S BLOOD TO SORT OF TURN OFF VENOM FROM ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT SNAKES.

AND THE ANSWER WAS YEAH, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT ACTUALLY IS THE CASE.

>>LORENE: NOW WAS THAT JACOB GLANVILLE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?

>>KYLE: YES.

>>LORENE: THE RESEARCHER, BECAUSE YOU WROTE AN ARTICLE ABOUT HIM CALLED, "THE ANTIBODY AVENGER AND THE QUEST FOR A COVID CURE."

SO WHAT HAS HE BEEN DOING AND IS THERE HOPE, YOU KNOW THERE ARE VACCINES THAT IS ONE THING BUT TO ACTUALLY HAVE THE ANTIBODIES, YOU KNOW WE HAVE MANY TREATMENTS BUT IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE A FOR SURE ANTIBODY THAT COULD JUST NEUTRALIZE THE VIRUS.

CAN YOU KIND OF SUM UP FOR THE LAY PERSON SOME OF THAT RESEARCH.

>>KYLE: SURE.

I WILL DO MY BEST, IT IS PRETTY TECHNICAL.

BUT THE BASIC IDEA IS THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN ANTIBODY THAT IS ABLE TO TARGET ALL THE DIFFERENT VARIANTS OF THE COVID CAUSING VIRUSES, SO THE CORONA VIRUSES.

SO HE IS IN THE BUSINESS OF TRYING TO FIND THAT ANTIBODY AND THE IDEA IS THAT IF YOU CAN FIND THAT ANTIBODY, IT IS ANOTHER TOOL IN THE KIT THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO USE TO TREAT THE DISEASE.

SO IT IS NOT AS IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A SINGLE MAGIC BULLET, I MEAN WE NEED ALL THE TOOLS.

WE NEED THE VACCINES, WE NEED THE ANTIBODIES, WE NEED DIFFERENT SORTS OF TREATMENTS, BUT THIS IS ANOTHER ONE AND I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT MONOCLONAL ANTIBODIES WHICH IS WHAT HE WAS WORKING ON, BASICALLY AN ANTIBODY THAT TREATS JUST THIS VIRUS, IS AN EFFECTIVE TREATMENT FOR CERTAIN CASES OF COVID.

>>LORENE: WELL, AS ONE OF YOUR DEDICATED READERS, I LOVE HOW YOU TAKE ONE THREAD FROM ONE STORY AND THEN GO SOMEWHERE FASCINATING, I HAD NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THE HUMAN ANTI-VENOM PROJECT AND THAT IT COULD HELP WITH THIS WORK WITH COVID.

BUT THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE, NOW WE HAVE GOTTEN EVERYONE'S ATTENTION WITH FOREST FIRES AND SNAKE BITES AND YOU KNOW ALL THESE THINGS, BUT YOU ARE WORKING ON ANOTHER PROJECT THAT IS SAD ON ONE LEVEL BUT ALSO VERY NOBLE CALLED, "THE LAST OF THE MONARCHS."

TELL US ABOUT IT AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE READ OVER STORY BY RICHARD POWERS, BUT ANYONE THAT LOVES TREE THEY MUST READ THAT BOOK.

BUT TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH, WHO ARE THE LAST OF THE MONARCHS?

>>KYLE: PART OF THE TROUBLE WITH ALL OF THIS INTENSIFICATION OF WILDFIRES IN CALIFORNIA IS THE SEQUOIA TREES, THOSE BIG TREES THAT EVERYBODY LOVES SO MUCH, THEY ARE DYING AND THEY ARE DYING AT AN INCREDIBLE RATE.

SO LAST YEAR, THERE WAS A SINGLE FIRE IN CALIFORNIA WHERE THEY KILLED 10,000 GIANT SEQUOIAS, WHICH IS 10 PERCENT OF THE EXISTING POPULATION, SO IT IS AN UNBELIEVABLE TOLL.

SO THERE IS AN EFFORT WITHIN A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PARK SERVICE EMPLOYEES WHERE THEY ARE GOING OUT AND THEY ARE TRYING TO DO THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE TO SAVE THESE TREES AND THAT'S THINGS LIKE THINNING THE FOREST AROUND THEM, USING MORE PRESCRIBED FIRES TO HARDEN THEM, TO MAKE THEM MORE RESILIENT FOR FUTURE WILD FIRES AND I THINK IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT THERE IS ENOUGH LOVE FOR THAT PARTICULAR SPECIES THAT THERE IS A LOT OF SUPPORT BEHIND IT.

AND I THINK IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT IT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO HAPPEN, RIGHT, LIKE I THINK WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THIS SPECIES OR THESE GIANT INDIVIDUALS FROM THESE INTENSIFYING FIRES.

>>LORENE: SO TELL US THE AVERAGE AGE OF THESE TREES, HOW OLD ARE THE OLDEST?

>>KYLE: YEAH, 2500 BUT THEY CAN BE AS OLD AS 3000 YEARS.

THEY ARE JUST INCREDIBLE.

>>LORENE: THREE THOUSAND YEARS OLD AND UP IN SMOKE.

OH MY GOSH.

>>KYLE: THAT IS TRAGIC.

>>LORENE: YES.

SO PERHAPS FOR ANOTHER SHOW AFTER YOU FINISH THIS WORK ON THE "LAST OF THE MONARCHS," YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO BECAUSE CAN YOU DO A FIRE BREAK AROUND THE FOREST YOU KNOW TO PROTECT THEM, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.

>>KYLE: THEY ARE, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

THEY ARE MAKING FIRE BREAKS IN THE FOREST SO WHEN THE FIRES RUN UP TO THESE TREES, THEY WILL SORT OF SIT DOWN AND THE FIRES WON'T BE SO INTENSE BECAUSE SEQUOIAS HAVE HAD FIRES IN THEM FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

THREE-THOUSAND-YEAR-OLD TREES HAVE BEEN BURNED COUNTLESS TIMES BUT THE FIRES HAVE USUALLY BEEN LOWER INTENSITY RIGHT AROUND THE BASE, BUT NOW BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH FUEL AND THE FIRES ARE SO HOT, THE FIRES ARE JUMPING UP INTO THE TREES' CANOPIES AND ONCE THEY ARE IN THE CANOPIES, THE ENTIRE TREE IS BURNED AND DIES.

SO THE IDEA IS IF YOU CAN KEEP THE FIRE OUT OF THE CANOPIES THESE THINGS, SEQUOIAS, ARE INCREDIBLE RESILIENT TREES, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO SURVIVE.

>>LORENE: I THINK THAT WE WOULD ALL LOVE THAT, THOSE ARE MUCH BELOVED TREES.

WELL, TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW ONGOING, FIRES, WE ARE LUCKY THIS YEAR, WE HAD THE MONSOONS AND SO NEW MEXICO DID NOT SUFFER LIKE WE DID LAST YEAR.

AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE BECOMING MORE AND MORE AWARE OF "FIRESCAPING" IF YOU LIVE IN AN INTERFACE BETWEEN URBAN AND RURAL, BUT GIVE US A LAST BIT OF ADVICE.

>>KYLE: JUST THINK BEFORE YOU GET READY BEFORE THEY COME.

I TOTALLY AGREE WE GOT VERY LUCKY IN NEW MEXICO THIS YEAR, BUT THERE IS NOT MUCH GIVEN THE MOST RECENT CLIMATE FORECAST THERE IS NOT MUCH REASON TO BELIEVE THAT IT WILL STAY THAT WAY, THAT TREND WILL CONTINUE SO DO WHAT YOU CAN TO GET YOUR HOMES READY, GET YOUR MASKS AND KEEP THEM AROUND AND JUST HOPE THAT WE KEEP GETTING LUCKY WITH OUR MELLOW FIRE SEASONS.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, THE INEXORABLE MARCH OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE GOT A YEAR OFF FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR BUT WHO KNOWS WHAT NEXT YEAR WILL BRING AND LAST YEAR WE HAD TROUBLES AND THEN OF COURSE, YOU LIVE IN LOS ALAMOS, YOU HAD TWO HORRIFIC FIRES YOU KNOW AND WE ALL WATCHED THAT, UNBELIEVING THAT SO MANY HOMES COULD GO AND THAT THE NUCLEAR ELEMENT, IT WAS VERY SCARY SO.

BUT I AM SO GRATEFUL TO YOU, KYLE DICKMAN.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS KYLE DICKMAN, WE STARTED ON HIS BOOK, ON THE BURNING EDGE , I REALLY RECOMMEND IT AND YOU CAN FIND HIS WORK ON OUTSIDE MAGAZINE AND THEIR ARCHIVES, I REALLY RECOMMEND THEM.

YOU ARE AN EXCELLENT JOURNALIST AND THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO BE WITH US TODAY.

>>KYLE: WELL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE.

>>LORENE: IT'S BEEN A REAL PLEASURE.

AND I AM LORENE MILLS AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE