>>JON: LAST SUMMER, FOLLOWING THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD AT THE HANDS OF MINNEAPOLIS POLICE, MEMBERS OF THE INDIANA BLACK LEGISLATIVE CAUCUS PUT FORTH A LONG LIST OF REFORMS TO CURB RACISM IN THE CRIMINAL-JUSTICE SYSTEM.

MANY STATEHOUSE OBSERVERS DIDN'T EXPECT THE PROPOSALS TO GAIN MUCH TRACTION, THANKS TO HOOSIERS' AFFINITY FOR LAW-AND-ORDER CONSERVATISM AND THE ALL-CONSUMING NATURE OF THE ONGOING BATTLE AGAINST COVID-19.

THOSE OBSERVERS WERE WRONG.

HI, I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND ON THIS EDITION OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, WE'LL LOOK AT A SWEEPING REFORM PACKAGE THAT'S MOVING THROUGH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WITH NOT ONLY BIPARTISAN BACKING BUT ALSO THE SUPPORT OF LAW-ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ACROSS THE STATE.

DON'T GO AWAY, INDIANA LAWMAKERS - FROM THE STATEHOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

>>JON: THIS WEEK, MEMBERS OF THE INDIANA BLACK LEGISLATIVE CAUCUS HELD A VIRTUAL NEWS CONFERENCE TO PROMOTE VARIOUS POLICING-REFORM MEASURES AND TO VOICE THEIR UNBRIDLED SUPPORT FOR HOUSE BILL 1006, A WIDE-RANGING PACKAGE THAT WOULD BOOST LAW-ENFORCEMENT TRANSPARENCY, ACCOUNTABILITY AND, THEY HOPE, CREDIBILITY.

WE'LL USE THAT EVENT AS A JUMPING-OFF POINT FOR OUR DISCUSSION WITH...REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE GREG STEUERWALD OF AVON, HOUSE MAJORITY CAUCUS CHAIR AND AUTHOR OF HOUSE BILL 1006, DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE ROBIN SHACKLEFORD OF INDIANAPOLIS, A CO-AUTHOR OF THAT BILL, DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE MITCH GORE OF INDIANAPOLIS, A CAPTAIN IN THE MARION COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, AND, SAMANTHA BURAN, A GRADUATE STUDENT AT IUPUI.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE FOR THIS DISCUSSION.

LET ME START WITH YOU REPRESENTATIVE.

THIS BILL, 1006, YOU AND ONE OF YOUR CO-AUTHORS BOTH SITTING HERE.

AND USUAL IN A LOT OF WAYS BUT EVEN IN THIS HYPER CHARGED PARTISAN ATMOSPHERE, WHICH WE ALL SEEM TO LIVE NOW, THIS PAST OUT OF COURTS AND CRIMINAL CODE ON A VOTE OF 11-02 WEEKS AGO ON THIS WEEK IT PASSED OUT OF HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE 23-0.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>>: I'M IN CONSTANT CONTACT WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT ON A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ISSUES AND SOME OF THE TROUBLES AROSE LAST SUMMER WE BEGAN A CONVERSATION AND I GATHERED ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM THE SHERIFF ASSOCIATION AND PULLEY -- POLICE CHIEF SAID LAW ENFORCEMENT ACADEMY AND WE BEGAN DISCUSSION AND I ASKED THEM WHAT CAN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DO TO ENHANCE LAW ENFORCEMENT IN INDIANA SO YOU CAN BETTER SERVE THE PUBLIC.

I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS BEING NOT NECESSARILY PERFORM AS MUCH AS ENHANCED.

>>: EXACTLY RIGHT.

I ASKED HOW CAN YOU ENHANCE EFFORTS BECAUSE WE HAVE GREAT PEOPLE TO DO THE BEST JOB POSSIBLE.

THAT LED INTO MANY, MANY DISCUSSIONS AND OVER THE COURSE OF TIME THERE WERE THREE GENERAL AREAS THAT THEY SAID WHAT THEY NEED THE MOST.

THEY SAID EVERYTHING BEGINS WITH THE BEST TRAINING.

THEY HAVE A GREAT CURRICULUM OF THE FACILITIES THAT WERE BUILT IN PLAINFIELD BACK IN THE 70s IS LONG OVERDUE.

THEY NEED BETTER EQUIPMENT AND BETTER MEANS BY WHICH TO TRAIN.

SO WE LEFT THAT TRAINING ASPECT AND PART OF THE TRAINING CURRICULUM.

THEY SAID WE NEED EQUIPMENT.

WE NEED POLICE AND BODY CAMS AND BY THE WAY,, ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGREED WITH EVERYTHING WE DO.

>>: I WANT TO GET TO THAT.

THAT'S PART OF THE UNUSUAL ASPECT.

>>: THE POPE PUSH.

>>: IN THE BUDGET THERE IS MONEY FOR LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT TO APPLY FOR A GRANT IF THEY DON'T ALREADY HAVE BODY CAMS.

>>: THAT WAS INSERTED IN WAYS AND MEANS.

THE EXTRA MONEY FOR FUNDING.

>>: THAT WAS FOR THE TRAINING FACILITY.

$70 MILLION AND IT HAS FIVE LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT INDIANA.

AND THEN THE LAST MAJOR TOPIC WAS ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGREED THAT WE NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE OFFICER SO THAT'S A MAJOR PART OF THE BILL.

>>: THE LAST QUESTION NOW THEY LAST QUESTION, BUT CERTAINLY THE LAST ONE FOR YOU IN THIS ROUND.

WHAT WAS THE ONE THING OR WAS THERE ONE THING THAT TRIGGERED THESE DISCUSSIONS.

YOU MENTIONED THIS PAST SUMMER THERE WAS A PEOPLE WAS THAT THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD OR OTHER HIGH PROFILE DESKS AT THE HANDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHAT GOT YOU MARBLEIZED AND ORGANIZING THIS AND BETTER THINGS TO DO THIS SUMMER YOU COULD'VE STAYED HOME WITH YOUR MASK AND QUARANTINED.

>>: IT WAS A COLLECTIVE, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED.

THERE WAS NO ONE MAJOR EVENT.

WHEN THINGS HAPPEN, THEY WERE ALL READY TO GO.

THEY SAID LET'S TACKLE THIS ISSUE, LET'S GET ON TOP OF IT AND LET'S MAKE INDIAN OF THE BEST WE CAN MAKE IT.

>>: LET'S GO BACK TO THIS PAST SUMMER AND IT SEEMS A MILLION YEARS AGO NOW WITH ALL THAT SOCIETY HAS BEEN THROUGH, BUT BECAUSE OF THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD AND OTHERS WHOSE NAMES WE COULD GO THROUGH A LITANY OF NAMES THAT HAVE ENTERED THE LEXICON, YOU AND YOUR ORGANIZATION I SHOULD POINT OUT YOU ARE CHAIR CURRENTLY OF THE BLACK LEGISLATIVE CAUCUS.

EARLY SUMMER SOON AS THIS HAPPEN, YOU ISSUED A CALL FOR ACTION CALLING THE GOVERNOR.

SUBSEQUENT TO THAT IN THE LATTER PART OF THE SUMMER YOU ISSUED 36 RECOMMENDATIONS IN TERMS OF POLICING REFORM.

DID YOU THINK -- I'LL BE HONEST.

I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION A LOT OF OBSERVERS DID NOT THINK THESE WOULD NECESSARILY GAIN AS MUCH TRACTION AS IT HAS AND I'LL PUT MYSELF IN THAT GROUP AND WON'T LEAD IT ANONYMOUS.

ARE YOU SURPRISED?

>>: I'M AN OPTIMISTIC PERSON AND BECAUSE IT WAS A PERFECT STORM THIS SUMMER WE HAD PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE THEY GOT TO SEE FIRSTHAND OUR COMMUNITY OF BLACKS GETTING KILLED ON THEIR TV SCREENS.

AND THEY ALSO GOT TO SEE THE PROTESTERS.

PEOPLE CAME OUT IN GROUPS TO PROTEST INEQUALITY.

WE WENT TO THE SPEAKER AFTER ALL THE PRESENTATIONS AND THE PRESS CONFERENCES AND SAID EITHER THERE NEEDS TO BE A TASK FORCE PUT TOGETHER LIKE WE DID FOR HEALTH DISPARITIES BUT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE SO WE CAN START WORKING ON THIS NOW.

AT THAT POINT HE SAID I WILL REACH OUT TO REPRESENTATIVE STEWART WALL AND PUT HIM IN CHARGE AND YOU CAN WORK WITH HIM AND SEE WHAT WE CAN COME UP WITH US WE ARE WORKING THROUGH THE SUMMER.

HE WAS NOT A FAN OF PUTTING TOGETHER A TASK FORCE BUT I'M EXCITED HE DID GIVE IT TO THE REPRESENTATIVE BECAUSE FROM THAT POINT ON WE ALSO CONTINUED TO MEET WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PROSECUTORS AND JUDGES AND THE COMMUNITY AND PROTESTERS GETTING THEIR INPUT AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE CAN WE ALL COMPROMISE ON THESE ISSUES.

SO 1006 IS A RESULT OF THE COMPROMISE.

>>: I'M INTRIGUED BY THE NOTION THAT PERHAPS THIS WAS FURTHERED OR THE STATEWIDE IMPETUS CAN BE TRACED IN SOME WAYS TO PEOPLE STAYING AT HOME BECAUSE OF COVID-19 AND WATCHING.

IS THAT REALLY A FACTOR?

OFTENTIMES THIS ISSUE SEEMS TO NOT SO MUCH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC OR URBAN OR RURAL.

HAD THERE BEEN NO COVID, DO YOU THINK THIS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AS FAR ALONG AS IT IS NOW IS IT AS SIMPLE AS THAT?

>>: I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT, BUT I WOULD GO THERE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE 36 BILLS WE ARE PUSHING WE'VE PUSHED FOR YEARS SO WE'VE BEEN PUSHING THESE IDEALS FOR SEVERAL YEARS BUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE COVID AND YOU HAVE PEOPLE TUNED IN AND AT HOME, EVEN WHEN WE MET WITH THE SPEAKER HE WAS OUT CAMPAIGNING AND HE SAID PEOPLE IN HIS NEIGHBORHOODS SAID THEY WANTED TO SEE A CHANGE AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY HAD AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD.

I WOULD SAY BECAUSE THE WORLD HAS TURNED INTO MORE VIRTUAL AND YOU CAN SEE THINGS IMMEDIATELY AND THEY GOT TO SEE GEORGE FLOYD BEING MURDERED ON THE GROUND THEY GOT TO SEE BREANNA TAYLOR AND THE COPS COMING IN.

SO WITH ALL THE VIDEO FOOTAGE NOT ONLY DID THEY GET TO SEE IT, BUT THEY FELT IT AND THEY DEMANDED A CHANGE.

>>: YOU HAVE A VANTAGE POINT UNLIKE MANY OTHERS AND THAT YOU HEAR FROM CONSTITUENT YOU REPRESENT ON THE EAST AND SOUTHEAST SIDE OF INDIANAPOLIS AND YOU ARE A MEMBER OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, A CAPTAIN IN THE MARION COUNTY SHERIFFS OFFICE.

WE KNOW EVERYBODY HAS LINED UP AND ALL THE OFFICIALS HAVE ORGANIZED LABOR WITHIN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THE EXTERNAL ORDER OF POLICE THE ASSOCIATION OF POLICE CHIEFS AND THEY'VE ALL SAID WE ARE FOR IT.

WHAT DO YOU HEAR FROM RANK-AND-FILE?

IS THERE ANY CLAIM OR WITHIN LAW ENFORCEMENT RANK-AND-FILE MEMBERS THAT SEEMS TO BE AT THE TOP ECHELONS?

>>: ABSOLUTELY.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE SPEAKING PERSONALLY AND AFTER SEVERAL COLLEAGUES, BEING A FRESHMAN, I AM STILL EXTREMELY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT SOME OF THESE THINGS.

YOU HAD MENTIONED EARLIER IF REPRESENTATIVE SHACKLE FORD WAS SURPRISED.

I WAS NOT SURPRISED BECAUSE THERE WAS A CLAMORING FOR SEVERAL THINGS AMONG COUNTRY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FOR NUMBER OF YEARS AND GENERALLY WE ARE STRONGLY IN FAVOR OF BODY CAMERAS NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT HAPPENS TO REDUCE COMPLAINTS AGAINST OFFICER SIGNIFICANTLY, BUT IT GIVES PEOPLE A GLIMPSE INTO WHAT OFFICERS DEAL WITH ON THE STREET AND IF YOU ASK MOST LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS TELLING YOU THE TRUTH, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT ONE OFFICER THAT PROBABLY SHOULD NOT BE ON THE FORCE.

SO HAVING THIS PROCESS TO DECERTIFY BAD ACTORS IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL AND I WOULD SAY GENERALLY EVERY CONSCIENTIOUS LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IS STRONGLY IN FAVOR OF THIS LEGISLATION.

THAT GOES TO THE REPRESENTATIVE'S POINT THAT THIS HAS SUPPORT FROM THE STATE FOP, THE INDIANA POLICE STATE POLICE ALLIANCE, AND THE INDIANA SHERIFFS ASSOCIATION AND POLICE CHIEFS.

THERE HAS BEEN A CLAMORING.

>>: SO STATE POLICE MADE A POINT OF STANDING UP THERE AND SAYING I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M SAYING THIS, BUT I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING IN THIS BILL.

SAMANTHA, I KNOW YOU ARE SPEAKING FOR YOURSELF.

YOU ARE HERE IN YOUR CAPACITY AS A STUDENT AND SO FORTH, BUT I SHOULD POINT OUT YOU WERE RECOMMENDED TO US BY BLACK LIVES MATTERS SO I KNOW YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING FOR THEM, BUT JUST TO PUT CONTEXT TO YOUR APPEARANCE HERE.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON'S ON THE LEGISLATION?

DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH?

>>: YES, I DO PROVIDE VOLUNTEER SUPPORT TO THE VOLUNTEER TEAM OF "BLACK LIVES MATTER."

DOES THE LEGISLATION GO FAR ENOUGH?

YOU LOOK AT THESE THINGS, IT'S GOOD TO SEE IT HAS BROAD SUPPORT AND THERE WAS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY.

WHAT I WILL SAY IS THESE ISSUES HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR MUCH LONGER THAN THIS PAST SUMMER.

IT'S MORE THAN GEORGE FLOYD.

IT'S [INAUDIBLE] IT'S AARON BAILEY, HERE IN INDIANAPOLIS.

SO I DO WANT TO ADD THAT CON CONTEXT, BUT NOT SOMETHING ABSTRACT HAPPENING ELSEWHERE HERE TOO.

>>: NOT PUTTING WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH BUT CENTURA VOLUNTEER POLICY ADVISOR I'VE SEEN AT LEAST THAT THE TWO LEADERS OF INDY TEN "BLACK LIVES MATTER" AND THAT REFERS TO THE TEN FOUNDING MEMBERS IN THE WAKE OF THE DEATH OF MICHAEL BROWN CAME TOGETHER IN CASE PEOPLE WONDER WHAT INDEED TENNIS.

THE LEADERS OF THAT GROUP HAVE SAID TIME FOR TALK AND REFORM OR ENHANCEMENT IS OVER.

IT IS TIME TO MOVE TOWARD EVOLUTION OF POLICE AGENCIES.

AGAIN NOT SUGGESTING THAT IS YOUR POINT, BUT JUST TO PUT IT IN CONTEXT OF WHERE INDEED TEN "BLACK LIVES MATTER" WILL COME.

REPRESENTATIVE STIR WHILE ONE THING WE'VE NOT HEARD ASIDE FROM THE NOTION IS THAT THE LEADERSHIP SO MANY OTHER STATES AND MUNICIPALITIES ELSEWHERE AS IT'S BEEN DE- FUN POLICE DEFUND POLICE.

I'VE NOT HEARD THAT AND HOW HELPFUL WE ARE OUR LET ME SAY WAS THAT HELPFUL THAT NO ONE CAME TO THE TABLE EARLY ON DEMANDING THE POLICE AGENCIES BE TOSSED ASIDE IN FAVOR OF SOME SORT OF SOCIAL SERVICE COMPONENT.

>>: I WAS THANKFUL.

I DIDN'T HEAR FROM ANY GROUPS ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT DEFUND THE POLICE.

IT WAS ALWAYS A VERY POSITIVE DISCUSSION.

ALWAYS VERY SUPPORTIVE ABOUT THINGS WE NEED TO DO BETTER, BUT THERE WAS NEVER DISCUSSIONS ABOUT DEFUNDING THE POLICE.

>>: NO ONE AS FAR AS I KNOW CAME FORWARD WITH ANY SUGGESTION THAT SOMETHING THAT NEEDED TO OCCUR.

>>: WE DID SIT DOWN WITH INDEED TEN AND SEVERAL PROTESTERS AND IT WAS ON THEIR AGENDA BUT WHEN WE SPOKE TO THEM WE SAID IT WOULD NOT BE ON OUR AGENDA.

WE DON'T FEEL WE SHOULD BE DEFUNDING THE POLICE.

WHAT WE DID AGREE UPON IS PUTTING MORE MONEY IN SOCIAL SERVICES.

PUTTING MORE MONEY INTO THE SERVICES THE MENTAL HEALTH PSYCHOLOGY SERVICES FOR THE KIDS AND SCHOOL.

ALSO WE SUPPORTED -- THEY WANTED TO SEE A CHANGE WITH THE RESOURCE OFFICERS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AT THE SCHOOL SO WE SUPPORTED TWO BILLS, ONE PROVIDING ADDITIONAL TRAINING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT, IF YOU WILL BE IN THE SCHOOL BECAUSE CURRENTLY YOU CAN BE LAW ENFORCEMENT, BUT NOT HAVE EXTRA TRAINING THAT SROS HAVE TO TAKE AND THE OTHER BILL WAS TO TOTALLY FUND A SEPARATE TEAM SUPPORT TEAM FOR STUDENTS WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND NURSES AND PSYCHIATRISTS BECAUSE OUR RATIOS ARE SO LOW SO YOU SEE TWO BILLS FOR THAT.

WHEN YOU SAY DOES 1006 GO FAR ENOUGH I WOULD SAY IT'S AN AWESOME START.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE 36 OTHER BILLS BECAUSE THERE'S PLENTY MORE.

>>: YOU SAID THIS EVEN THIS WEEK IN YOUR NEWS CONFERENCE YOU WANT TO SEE THIS BILL GO THROUGH UNCHANGED.

YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS BILL AMENDED WITH THE OTHER 30 LET'S SAY 35 BILLS THAT YOU COULD PUT FORWARD AND THAT'S A STRATEGIC MOVE ON PART OF THE CAUCUS TO KEEP THIS EFFECTIVELY CLEAN AND NOT GET BOGGED DOWN.

>>: BOTH CAUCUSES AND ON THE AUTHORS BECAUSE THE BILL IS MOVING WE HAVE SEVERAL MEMBERS THAT NOW WANT TO ATTACH EITHER THEIR BILLS OR AMENDMENTS AND BECAUSE WE WORK SO HARD DURING THE SUMMER AND CAME UP WITH THESE COMPROMISES YOU WILL HAVE TO GO BACK AND VET ALL OF THOSE IDEAS AND SEE IS IT OKAY WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE PROSECUTORS AND JUDGES AND COMMUNITIES WHICH THERE IS NO TIME TO DO IN THIS SHORT TIMEFRAME.

FOR THAT BILL IT NEEDS TO STAY THE WAY IT IS AND WE WILL WORK ON THE OTHER BILLS.

>>: DOES THIS HAVE WHAT YOU THINK IT NEEDS TO HAVE WE COULD TALK ABOUT OTHER SORTS OF THINGS, NO KNOCK WARRANTS, MENTAL TESTING FOR OFFICERS WHO HAVE BEEN IN STRESSFUL SITUATIONS AND POLICE INVOLVED SHOOTINGS.

A LOT OF OTHER SORTS OF OVERSIGHT COMMISSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED.

DOES THIS IN YOUR ESTIMATION IS THIS PACKAGE GET THE JOB DONE.

>>: I UNEQUIVOCALLY AGREE WITH REPRESENTATIVE SHEKEL FORD.

THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE JUMPING OFF POINT.

THE WORK THAT THE REPRESENTATIVES DID THIS PAST SUMMER LEADING UP TO THIS POINT IS COMMENDABLE AND WHILE I THINK WE ALL HAVE IDEAS FOR LITTLE TWEAKS OR THINGS WE WOULD LIKE TO GET IN THERE, I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE I DON'T WANT TO JEOPARDIZE THE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS MADE IN THIS LEGISLATION BY MUDDYING THE LEGISLATION AND ADDING AMENDMENTS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN INVENTED YET.

I THINK WE ALL HAVE LITTLE THINGS WE WOULD LIKE TO DO TO IT, MINOR THINGS BUT I THINK THIS IS A GREAT PLACE TO START.

>>: SAMANTHA, YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE MECHANICS, BUT I'M GUESSING IF YOU HAD YOUR MAGIC WAND YOU WOULD TREAT THIS -- TWEAK THIS BILL OR FOLD INTO IT SOME OTHER MEASURES YOU'D LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN IN THIS REGARD.

>>: RIGHT.

SO YES AS A NONELECTED OFFICIAL I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT'S POLITICALLY FEASIBLE, THAT'S NOT AT THE FOREFRONT OF THEIR MIND WHEN THEY ARE CALLING FOR THE CHANGES THAT THEY WANT TO SEE.

I THINK AS THE REPRESENTATIVE POINTED OUT THE CALLS TO REFUND -- DEFUND THE POLICE ARE ROOTED IN OTHER SOCIAL SERVICES NEED TO BE BETTER FUNDED WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE FUNDED VERSUS EDUCATION AND OTHER THINGS.

THOUGH SHOULD BE GETTING THE SAME AMOUNT IF NOT MORE FUNDING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES BEING ADDRESSED BY POLICING.

>>: THE NOTION BEING A PEER ADDRESS SOME POVERTY ISSUES IN THE UNEMPLOYMENT AND SOME OF THE CONCERNS ABOUT HOUSING AND LOOMING ADDICTIONS THAT WOULD GO TOWARD MAYBE ERADICATING SOME OF THE CRIMINAL.

>>: YES, WHICH IS WHY WE ARE PUSHING REALLY HARD TO GET SENATE BILL 350 A HEARING WHICH WAS AUTHORED BY SENATOR JD FORD.

IT WOULD PROVIDE AN ATTORNEY TO INDIGENT PEOPLE IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT SPECIFICALLY PEOPLE FACING EVICTIONS THROUGH A PILOT PROGRAM IN MARION COUNTY.

THE LAWS WE HAVE TO PROTECT TENANTS IN INDIANA WHICH THERE ARE NOT MANY ARE ONLY HELPFUL IF, YOU KNOW, HOW TO ASSERT THOSE LAWS AND ASSERT YOUR RIGHTS PROTECTED BY THOSE LAWS, WHICH THAT'S WHY IT'S HELPFUL TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY AND IN MARION COUNTY ONE OF THE COMMON REASON PEOPLE ARE EVICTED'S FAILURE TO PAY RENT.

THE EVICTION CRISIS WAS AT AN EMERGENCY LEVEL PRIOR TO COVID-19.

PEOPLE HAD BEEN LOSING THEIR JOBS, ECONOMIC ISSUES HAD ONLY INCREASED SINCE THEN.

SO IT'S NOT AN END ALL CURE ALL BUT IT'S A WAY TO HELP RIGHT HERE IN MARION COUNTY.

IT'S A STEP FORWARD TO HELP PEOPLE KEEP THEIR HOMES.

WE ARE REALLY PUSHING SENATE BILL 350 AND TRYING TO GET A HEARING IN THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

>>: FOLLOWING UP ON THIS POINT SOME OF THE OTHER BILLS THE CAUCUS HAVE'S PUT FORWARD ABOUT THIS -- FROM THE SAME SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THAT YOU ADDRESS SOME OF THE CHALLENGES KIDS FACE IN SCHOOL.

ONE OF THE BILLS YOU TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY AS THE NOTION OF SUPPORT SYSTEM STRUCTURES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

CAN YOU HAVE THE LAW ENFORCEMENT REFORM WITHOUT THE OTHER STUFF?

IS IT EITHER OR OR ARE THEY COMPLEMENTARY OR MUTUALLY DEPENDENT?

>>: TO ME THE LAW ENFORCEMENT PART IS THE OUTCOME.

AND I ALWAYS SAY WORKING ON THE PREVENTATIVE PART AND THE OUTCOME PART THE AFTERTHOUGHT AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT PIECE WE ARE WORKING ON WE'VE AGREED UPON, BUT IT'S THE PREVENTATIVE PART THE HOUSING AND EVICTIONS, MORE EDUCATION CAN MORE MONEY FOR EDUCATION, MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADDRESSING FOOD DESERTS.

SO THERE IS SO MUCH ON THIS PREVENTATIVE PART THAT WE ARE NOT ADDRESSING THAT WE'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR YEARS.

YOU SEE US PUSH AGAIN A SEPARATE AGENDA FOR HEALTH DISPARITIES AND A WHOLE TASK FORCE THIS SUMMER BECAUSE COVID HIGHLIGHTED A LOT OF THOSE DISPARITIES.

UNTIL WE CAN AGREE UPON THE PREVENTATIVE PARTS AND WORK ON THOSE, WE WILL JUST BE PUTTING A BAND-AID AND WORKING ON THE AFTERTHOUGHT PART WHICH IS NEEDED, BUT WE HAVE TO WORK ON THIS SIDE ALSO.

>>: BACK TO 1006, THIS IS PROBABLY LIKE ASKING YOU TO PICK YOUR FAVORITE CHILD OR SOMETHING, BUT OF THE HALF DOZEN MEASURES WHAT WILL HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT THE MOST IMMEDIATE IMPACT WITH PROVISION OF THE BILL?

>>: I THINK IT ALWAYS BEGINS WITH TRAINING.

>>: WHETHER YOU ARE A ROOKIE COP OR YOU'VE BEEN ON THE FORCE FOR 30 YEARS AND YOU GO THROUGH DE-ESCALATION TRAINING.

>>: THEY HAVE A DE-ESCALATION PROGRAM AT THE ACADEMY AND IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR US TO TAKE WHAT IS IN PRACTICE AND PUT IN STATUTE THE DE-ESCALATION WILL BE A MAJOR PART OF THE TRAINING AND IT STEMS FROM THERE.

THAT'S FROM THE LONG-TERM EFFECT AND THE ABILITY TO OPEN UP RECORDS FOR HIRING AGENCIES TO ASK THE PREVIOUS AGENCY THE PERSONNEL FILE OF THE OFFICER AND THE ABILITY FOR THE AUTHORITY TO BRING OR FILE WITH THE IL EA DECERTIFICATION PROGRAM.

>>: THE LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINING ACADEMY AND BOARD.

JUST AS THE I HAVE THE ABILITY TO CERTIFY OFFICERS UNDER THIS BILL THEY'D HAVE THE ABILITY THANK A BADGE AS WELL.

>>: EXACTLY RIGHT.

WE NEED TO EXPAND THE CRITERIA ON UPON WHICH AN OFFICER CAN BE DECERTIFIED WHICH WE PUT IN THE BILL.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAVE MORE OF AN IMMEDIATE EFFECT AND THEN THE OTHERS WILL BE MORE OF A LONG-RANGE EFFECT.

>>: ANOTHER WE SHOULD POINT OUT IS THIS HAS TO DO WITH TRAINING IS THE CHOKE HOLDS WOULD BE VIEWED LEGALLY AS THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE SO ONLY UNDER THE MOST -- THE OFFICER WHO ENGAGES IN THAT IF HE OR SHE FEELS NECESSARY WOULD HAVE TO ANSWER THE SAME QUESTIONS THAT OFFICER HAD PULLED A GUN AND FIRED.

>>: WE DEFINE CHOKE HOLDS AS DEADLY FORCE THE SAME IF YOU USE A FIREARM.

>>: LET ME ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE'LL HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT IN THE SHORT TERM?

>>: THE ABILITY TO DECERTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ENGAGED IN MISCONDUCT IS GOING TO BE THE BEST PART OF THIS LEGISLATION AND AS THE REPRESENTATIVE MENTIONED THE ABILITY TO TRACE THOSE BAD ACTORS SHOULD THEY TRY TO JUMP TO A DIFFERENT AGENCY WHICH HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

>>: YOU MAY NOT BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN HIRING BUT THE HR COMPONENT, BUT I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD ANECDOTALLY SOMEBODY WILL SAY HEY, THIS APPLICANT LOOKED GOOD ON PAPER BUT DO YOU RUN INTO THAT?

>>: ABSOLUTELY.

EVERY AGENCY RUNS INTO THAT.

YOU HAVE AN APPLICANT AND CALL UP THE LAST AGENCY AND YOU MAY EVEN HAVE A FUNNY FEELING, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY CONCRETE PROOF BECAUSE THE PERSONNEL FILE WON'T COME TO YOU IN FULL.

SO THE ABILITY TO TRACE THESE PEOPLE AS THEY TRY TO HAVE AROUND AGENCIES OR JUST INK THEIR CERTIFICATION FROM THE OUTSET IS ABSOLUTELY PIVOTAL.

>>: WE ARE ALMOST OUT OF TIME HERE I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW FAST TIME GOES.

IS THERE A ONE-TIME FIX OR -- CERTAIN ISSUES WE SEEM TO HAVE BACK LIKE EDUCATION REFORM I CAN THINK OF THE YEAR WE HAVEN'T HAD THIS.

IS THIS GOING TO BE A PERENNIAL DISCUSSION FROM HERE ON OUT?

>>: I THINK IT WILL I DON'T THINK IT'S A ONE-TIME FIX.

WHAT HAPPENED THIS SUMMER WAS MONUMENTAL AND PEOPLE WANT TO SEE CHANGE.

WE WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THAT DONE IN FOUR MONTHS THAT WE CONTINUE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS OVER NEXT SUMMER AND THROUGHOUT NEXT SESSION BUT I THINK MEMBERS SEE THERE'S A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED AND THEY ARE WILLING TO MAKE THE CHANGE.

>>: WE CAN ALL HELP THERE ARE NO HEADLINE MAKING EVENTS OF THE NATURE WE JUST DISCUSSED IT CAN BE MORE OF A RECENT TWEAKING OR FINE-TUNING OF THE BILL AND WE CAN HOPE FOR THAT.

THANK YOU FOR TAKING PART IN WHAT I THINK HAS BEEN AN INFORMATIVE DISCUSSION ABOUT A BILL THAT IMPACTS ALL HOOSIERS POTENTIALLY.

>>>AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN: REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE GREG STEUERWALD OF AVON, DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE ROBIN SHACKLEFORD OF INDIANAPOLIS ...DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE MITCH GORE OF INDIANAPOLIS, AND SAMANTHA BURAN A GRADUATE STUDENT AT IUPUI.

THANK YOU.

>>>YOU'VE HEARD THE SAYING ABOUT ABSOLUTE POWER - WHAT IF THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY POWERS WERE ON A TIME LIMIT?

THE CLOCK'S TICKING ON THE NEXT INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

>>>TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONVERSATION WITH INDIANA LAWMAKERS ANALYST ED FEIGENBAUM, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER INDIANA LEGISLATIVE INSIGHT, PART OF HANNAH NEWS SERVICE.

HOW UNUSUAL IS IT FOR A BILL TO HAVE THIS BROAD SUPPORT AT THIS POINT, IN THE SESSION?

>>: FOR A BILL IN GENERAL IT'S NOT UNUSUAL UP ON FOR A BILL LIKE THIS THAT HAS SO MANY CONTROVERSIAL ELEMENTS REQUIRES THE MAJORITY/MINORITY AND A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT SECTS TO COME TO GATHER AND IT'S A DIFFICULT THING TO GET AND WHEN YOU HAVE SUCH A SENSITIVE ISSUE IT'S UNUSUAL FOR THIS TO HAPPEN, BUT WE SAW SOMETHING RELATED TO THIS HAPPEN A FEW YEARS AGO WITH REPRESENTATIVE STERLING WALLED AND THAT WAS THE CRIMINAL CRIMINAL EXPUNGEMENT LEGISLATION ALLOWED THEM TO GET FELONIES OFF THEIR RECORDS AND HE SHEPHERDED THAT THROUGH BUT ONE THING WE SAW WITH THAT LEGISLATION IS THAT WE SAW A CLEAN BILL GO THRH AND THEN WE SPENT THE NEXT COUPLE OF SESSIONS CHANGING THAT AND TWEAKING IT AND WHEN THE COURT STARTED DEALING WITH THAT WE REALIZE THERE WERE OTHER PROBLEMS IN THE LEGISLATURE HAD TO COME BACK AND ADDRESS THAT.

>>: THAT RAISES THE QUESTION ABOUT KEEPING A CLEAN BILL.

YOU HEARD ROBIN SHACKELFORD SAY THIS WE WANT TO KEEP THIS AS IT IS NOW.

HOW REALISTIC IS THAT?

>>: IT WILL GO THROUGH THE HOUSE FAIRLY CLEAN BUT WHEN IT GETS TO THE SENATE YOU WILL SEE SOME ATTEMPTS TO AMEND THINGS.

SENATOR GREG TAYLOR THE SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER WAS ALSO PARTICIPATING IN THE SAME PRESS CONFERENCE WITH REPRESENTATIVES SHACKELFORD EARLIER IN THE WEEKEND HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF AN AFFIRMATIVE BAND ON CHOKE HOLDS THEN A REVIEW OF SOME OF THOSE THINGS.

HE IS REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE ACCOUNTABILITY MEASURES IN THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

HE MAY ALSO TRY TO MAKE A FEW CHANGES ON THE FLOOR.

IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO GET THAT THROUGH.

>>: HE MAY HAVE THE APPETITE BUT I WONDER IF THE SUPER MAJORITY SHARES THOSE SENTIMENTS.

THAT MIGHT BE TOUGHER.

>>: ABSOLUTELY.

WE ARE GOING TO SEE TWEAKS TO THIS OVER THE YEARS.

>>: SADLY I'M GUESSING THE ISSUE DOES NOT GO AWAY OVERNIGHT DESPITE THE BEST EFFORTS OF LAW MAKERS.

AS ALWAYS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT.

THANKS MUCH.

>>FOR MORE INFORMATION, EPISODE STREAMS AND OTHER EXTRA CONTENT VISIT US ON THE WEB AT WFYI.ORG/LAWMAKERS.

>>>YOU CAN ACCESS LIVE STREAMING COVERAGE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON THE INTERNET AS WELL.

AND, REMEMBER, YOU CAN GET OUR SHOW -- ON DEMAND -- FROM XFINITY.

>>>WELL, THAT CONCLUDES ANOTHER EDITION OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND, ON BEHALF OF WFYI PUBLIC MEDIA AND INDIANA'S OTHER PUBLIC-BROADCASTING STATIONS, I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND I INVITE YOU TO VISIT WFYI.ORG FOR MORE STATEHOUSE NEWS.

UNTIL NEXT WEEK, TAKE CARE.