Hello and welcome to lawmakers Beyond the Dome.

Technology and innovation.

I'm Donna Lowry.

If you're like a growing number of Georgia residents, you may live in areas rapidly changing because of new industries and new jobs.

Some of the largest economic development projects in Georgia's history are underway.

Many involve clean energy.

It's all part of a shifting job market as evolving technology takes hold and companies weave artificial intelligence A.I.

into their operations.

What does innovation mean for you?

In a state touted as the best place to do business, we have guests who will enlighten you on the Georgia of the future on the cusp of redesign right now.

We'll also give you insight into how massive tax credits work to give the state a competitive edge when luring companies here.

And look at what the state gets in return.

We ask the question, but what are the costs?

Let's start by taking you to communities across the state to see some of the transformations already in the works.

First stop, the city of Bloomingdale and North Chatham County.

When Dennis Baxter walks out of his home these days, he marvels at how his once pastoral view has dramatically changed.

It was on agriculture was a hayfield, and this was a pine forest.

And since time immemorial.

Now he sees warehouses under construction and the roads to accommodate the trucks that will come for Baxter and his neighbors.

This is a slice of the changing landscapes happening throughout Georgia as communities try to strengthen their economic engines, to reverse declining rural populations by attracting more industry and commerce.

Here in Bloomingdale, in North Chatham County, nearly 100 million square feet of warehouse space is popping up in a cluster of counties on Georgia's southeast coast to the east and Bryan County, the Hyundai Motor Group Metta Plan is springing to life.

It's the largest economic development project in the history of Georgia at more than $7.5 billion.

To the north, spanning parts of Walton and Morgan Counties, the infrastructure needs are under way for the planned ruby on eBay plant scheduled to start construction next year in Jackson County.

S.K.

Battery is expanding its lithium ion battery manufacturing facilities.

Then there's KIA in West Point, Archer Aviation in Newton County.

Q Cells in Dalton.

Q Cells in Cartersville and Valdosta.

A new Walmart dairy facility expected to create 400 jobs.

Those are just some of the largest projects between July 1st, 2022 and June 30th, 2023.

Total investments in facility expansions and new locations totaled more than $24 billion, resulting in 38,400 new jobs through 426 projects.

All of it thanks to the state's enticing tax incentives.

82% of those new jobs and investments are going into communities outside of the ten county Atlanta metro area.

The incentive packages come through development agreements with the county where the projects are planned, with some projects, multiple counties joined together to form a JDA or Joint Development Authority 16 quarter joint development authority.

And what that is, is for counties have come together and kind of pull some resources together.

It's Chatham Bullock, Bryan and Effingham Counties to work together on big projects.

Projects of regional significance like the one you see behind us.

We can pool our resources together and offer incentive package, a bigger incentive package, a more in-depth incentive package to to Honda incentive packages.

Why are they critical?

Georgia's competing against the rest of the nation and sometimes the rest of the world to bring in jobs.

Economic incentives are absolutely critical for Hyundai's decision.

I think probably most companies decisions on where to locate and Georgia is changing.

While agribusiness is still Georgia's leading industry with an annual $74 billion economic impact, growth has led to the need for more jobs.

Georgia's population of 8.6 million in 2003 is 10.9 million, now, making it the eighth most populated state.

An example of change.

20 years ago, the Georgia Port Authority moved roughly 1.5 million 20 foot equivalent container units, or TEUs as of August of this year.

GPA had moved about 3.2 million.

This is a project.

The regional significance so significant.

Georgia purchased the 3000 acre site in Bryan County, the largest land purchase in state history, making it shovel ready to lure a major company.

In the end, Hyundai chose it for an electric vehicle complex, adding to the South Korean company's existing footprint throughout Georgia.

We're going to create right here in 80 about 8180 500 jobs at this site, plus the 28 suppliers that are coming to make all the parts and pieces for the car from the door handles and all all everything they're making in this area, they're not shipping anything in.

The Associated Press has calculated Georgia and local governments are on track to give Hyundai Motor Group $2.1 billion in tax breaks.

Hyundai's commitment in addition to jobs.

There's milestones that they have to hit with workforce.

Yeah, they got to have so many people that if they don't meet that there's some clawbacks in there.

Clawbacks are the state's insurance that the company will keep to its end of the deal, a deal that includes support for infrastructure, like what's needed for all the workforce vehicles in and out of the plant off I-69.

You can see cars continue to go by and I mean it's a gateway and that's part of the incentive package.

You're widening some roads.

We're putting roundabouts in.

And again, it is going to it is going to create a transportation, some transportation issues.

People will come.

I think as far as from Dublin, you know, because if you think about an Atlanta, if you drove an hour, you may get 20 miles here.

If you drive an hour, you're going to get 60, 65 miles.

So those people will drive to work here in these other areas, in other regions, not even in within the 88 counties, but other counties like Toombs County and and Tennant County.

The hope is that it will attract workers from across the state, out of state, even a small revolving workforce from Hyundai's headquarters in South Korea.

Hiring has begun.

Training is underway, but there are concerns on how and where to house all of the new workers.

We're trying to figure out, you know, do you incentivize builder, you incentivize municipalities to run sewer and water somewhere to use and advise the first time homebuyer.

Bryan County is constructing a sewage treatment plant across I-65 from the Hyundai site.

The company will treat its wastewater and then send it over here for further treatment.

We're working with all the state agencies and federal agencies to make sure.

I mean, it's a big thing for us in Bryan County.

You know, we want to take we don't want to do anything that will hurt the water here, the local water.

So I think this water will be, you know, clean sewer, water, gas, roads, streets, facilities, parks.

On the Rivian deal, final steps are still underway and groundbreaking has yet to take place.

Yet the JDA that encompasses social circle with Walton, Newton, Morgan and Jasper Counties is well into improving infrastructure, including widening roadways.

For us, it is all about recognizing that it's coming and forecasting what the possible change could be and developing developing a plan for how to deal with it.

The planned $5 billion electric vehicle assembly plant would mark the state's second largest development behind Hyundai.

It is growth that Taylor has witnessed before as city manager in both Smyrna in Cobb County and Johns Creek in Fulton County.

Even without new developments, Taylor says the area has serious infrastructure needs.

We still have terracotta pipes in the ground that, you know, it's one of these things that people just don't see, you know, out of sight, out of mind.

But yet these pipes collapse.

They create sewer backups to manage growth and control the momentum.

We actually instituted four moratoriums, and the first two came about because our phones were ringing off the hook because we had a phone call from a developer who wanted to annex in 300 acres into the city limits for the purpose of housing and possibly strip malls and grocery stores and things like that.

Was the impact we're going to it's going to have on on our way of life.

So they hold a new housing development to overhaul zoning codes.

Next, they put a moratorium on signs, visual clutter, billboards, things of that nature, large signs that go up on poles that you can't remove later on.

Social circle also put a moratorium on speculative warehousing.

We wanted to have industries that will actually buy utilities from us gas, water, sewer that we then reinvest into our community to help protect our community further.

Those actions, city leaders hope, will allow them to steer growth and help keep social circle livable for new and existing residents.

If we're able to contain that growth and the Newton County inside a social circle, then we can protect what's going on in our downtown.

We can have the restaurants in our downtown that people want.

Nobody's going to come in and bulldoze the downtown.

The downtown, the social circle is what makes the city.

And that's why people want to live here.

People want to live here because of the historic identity and identity some residents think could be ruined if the Rivian plant is built.

Everybody says that, you know, bringing in jobs, you know, is and is a help bringing people to help pay taxes, that kind of thing.

But the more people you bring into the county, the more services you have to offer.

And so besides school, you also have to have fire, EMS, police.

Nicole Watson, Dorf is with the Morgan Land Sky Water Preservation Group.

They are one of the organizations behind the No to Rivian protests involved in filing legal challenges against the JDA to slow down or shut down the Rivian Project plant was going to be built on what's considered a substantial groundwater recharge area in the town square of Rutledge, just east of Social Circle wasn't Dorff and Chaz Moore shared their objections to the project.

So when you're talking about building a 20 million square foot manufacturing facility that's going to produce 6700 tons of solid waste a year, and that's to include toxic or hazardous waste that would be considered regular for a automotive manufacturer.

They're going to be producing that on top of our groundwater recharge area.

My worry is that my family, I have parents that live in this area.

I said I have a daughter that lives in this area, have grandchildren that will be poisoned by environmental catastrophes, not only in the water but even in the surrounding area.

One legal challenge about the groundwater concerns by a property owner has already failed.

A state administrative hearing judge ruled, quote, EPA properly reviewed the completed application back in Bloomingdale, Mayor Baxter says he is resigned to make the best of a bad situation.

We've never been exposed to this before.

So the only thing we can do is square our shoulders back and do the best we can.

What it's done is taken this section of our city and destroyed it, in my opinion, from anything but industrial use.

Like I said, who's going to build next to a warehouse?

Who's going to put a nice restaurant in the middle of an industrial area with truck traffic?

Come and go?

You might think knowing that Hyundai and its suppliers will use some of the nearby warehouse space, that he'd have harsh things to say about the plant coming in.

But I think it's great.

I was on board many years ago when Paula was trying to get down to Chrysler to come in.

And while he says that he had hoped the area around his neighborhood would have been developed differently, I still have dreams of some nice, resonant residential subdivision.

If not here, then in other parts of his town.

So now that you have background on the topics, let's get in to conversations with some people who can acquaint us with how the state's job market is changing.

First, the president and CEO of the Savannah Chamber of Commerce, Bert Brantley.

Among other things, Byrd has served as deputy chief of staff to Governor Brian Kemp.

He's also a former chief operating officer for the Georgia Department of Economic Development.

Next, the chief administrative officer and general counsel for the Georgia Department of Economic Development, Andrew Zito.

He has represented the state in negotiations with hundreds of companies, including some mentioned earlier, Hyundai Rivian and escape battery.

Next, the Fuller E Calloway, professor of economics at Georgia Southern University.

Mike Toma.

Mike has a Ph.D. in economics.

And our next guest, Daniel Kansas, has a Ph.D. in areas of politics and public affairs.

Daniel is the director of legislative strategy at the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute, and he also served as a policy adviser to former Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle.

Welcome to everyone.

Glad you're all here.

Some traveled far, so I appreciate that.

As we travel the state for this show, we focus on changes in the works.

But it's mostly an abstract concept.

If you don't live in the areas close to where the plants are coming in.

I want to emphasize again that we are talking about nearly 40,000 new jobs, mostly outside of the metro Atlanta area.

That is quite a boom to the state's economy.

And let's start with the progress and the whole process that got us here.

And so, Andrew, I want to start with you to give us an idea how the negotiations work and when you're trying to bring in a company like Hyundai and how these economic development tax breaks fall into place.

Sure.

So we start first with usually a process, a lead generation process.

So that might come directly from a company and might come from a site selection consultant and might come from our office attending trade shows.

But typically, a company will put out an RFP or an RFP to multiple states.

And in that RFP, they will have a list of what they need, what their needs are in terms of acreage, infrastructure, utilities, things like that.

We work to develop potential sites that will fit the company's needs.

And if we're lucky enough, we we have an opportunity to win the project.

Incentives obviously come into play in that process, but they're a they're one piece of the puzzle.

So all of the other things like infrastructure and business friendly climate, you know, low income tax rates, all of those things are part of the company's decision making process.

And if we're lucky enough to tick enough of those boxes, then we might win the project.

Yeah.

Talk about the development agreements.

Exactly what they are.

Because that's confused.

Sure.

Sure.

So I like to break down incentives into two ways.

In Georgia, there are statutory incentives, which are incentives that exist within the Georgia Code.

Those are incentives that the legislature is created to incentivize a certain type of behavior.

Most of those incentives anyone can claim.

So if your company meets the requirements of a particular incentive program, you can just file that with your tax return and you get the credit.

The other credits are discretionary in nature, so those require some evaluation by our office and the governor to put discretionary incentives into a deal that could be land, it could be infrastructure, it could be cash through development authority.

When we do that, there is a contractual agreement that we enter into with the company.

The company has to agree to do certain things in return for the incentives that we're giving.

Normally, it's going to be creating jobs and making capital investment.

If they don't meet the requirements there, then there are clawbacks that come into play and the company will have to repay all or a portion of those incentives.

And in some cases, those these these agreements are for years like a couple of decades.

That's right.

It depends on the length of the project and how long the development of the project is going to take and how far out we want to incentivize that behavior.

In the context of Rivian and Hyundai, for example, and especially at the local level, the abatement agreements, some of those are 20 years or longer.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, Burt, another way Georgia increases employment is through Georgia's job tax credit, and it was instituted in 1990.

So tell us a little bit about what that is about.

Yeah, and Andrew just talked about that's a statutory instead of and so you know, every company that that meets that that qualified qualification criteria is able to take then and it's usually based on the number of jobs you create and then what part of the state that that you're in.

So in our in our more rawer, more rural areas of the state, that is a more generous tax credit incentive.

And the key thing remember about that is it is a credit against your future taxes.

So it's not dollars that are expended out in this year by the state that is a credit against your your future corporate income tax that is owed.

And there actually are several variations of the job tax credit that target either specific high quality jobs that may be highly paid.

And so the idea, again, is to to incentivize that job creation, which is really what creates the the wealth for our citizens, the investment and more taxes into the state and to the local areas as well.

So lots of different tax credits.

That's that's all we want to give the position of.

So Daniel, the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute emphasize this transparency when it comes to tax breaks.

And what are your concerns when it comes to major breaks on projects that we've discussed?

Well, these are projects where we have the most transparency.

You know, as far as state programs go, we know how much the Rivian deal is, you know, up to one and a half billion dollars.

We heard up to a bit over $2 billion for the Hyundai deal.

And I think what it's important to acknowledge is that we've come a long way from KIA.

You know, we're the state was paying out about $400 million in incentives almost ten years ago.

You know, we're that was the previous record economic development deal.

So at a certain point, the costs spill over.

And if we want to maintain the same quality of public schools, if we want to respond to the demand in our health care system, which is already stretched very thin, you know, those transportation needs that are going to be faced, the money has to come from somewhere, you know, and in this case, it's being pushed back on to other property owners in that area.

And the state and the state has an increasing role where otherwise, you know, communities are going to suffer.

So there has you feel that the transparency is getting better.

It's not where you want it, though.

That's what you're saying.

It it wasn't as transparent under Kia.

Well, these are you know, there's a difference in other programs.

For example, when we talk about the film tax credit, we don't know which films are getting, how much in tax credit, and that is not disclosed.

These megadeals have been disclosed.

But the problem isn't that we don't know where the money is going.

The problem is that there are other needs that are going to have to be met by the state because we're forgoing so much in future tax dollars that, you know, we have to subsidize that from another source, essentially.

Okay, Mike, I want to talk a little bit more about these projects in terms of economic multipliers when it comes to Hyundai and Rivian and a community.

What else do do the communities get out of having these projects come in?

Well, in addition to the, you know, the headlining numbers, 8000 jobs, the facility itself, there are a large number of suppliers that are going to migrate to the area that will support that facility itself in the Savannah metro area and in surrounding counties.

We've already had announcements of of around 6400 jobs, an additional $2 billion worth of investment.

So the 8000 jobs are at this point have already fundamentally created another 6000 jobs outside the facility.

But in the vicinity of the facility and the counties that surround it.

And that doesn't account for all the economic activity that that recirculate through the economy as as the employees get paid above average wages at the the Hyundai plant, it's going to be $58,000 a year, roughly.

That's as you live your economic lives, you engage in transactions, you support additional jobs through your economic behavior.

So the idea that there are displacements of of tax revenue sources is I would generally offers a partial analysis of the situation, the sense of the 8000 jobs announcement or the 45,000 jobs that you mentioned on a statewide basis that doesn't consider all the spillover jobs and all the additional economic activity that's going to be associated with that economic multiplicative effect in the regional economy and Georgia's economy as well.

Yeah, So the jobs where they're getting $58,000 a year, it's going to change some of these communities.

Andrew, I want to talk though about that.

There was a joint legislative tax credit review panel and it has spent months over the summer looking at things.

And in terms of tax credits, what do you want the public to know about the credits when it comes to businesses in the state?

Sure.

Well, I mean, I think the legislature is doing its job by doing a review.

And this is something that was done, I believe, back in 2012.

And they're kind of going through that process again.

Our role at the Department of Economic Development, we've we've been kind of helping the tax credit committee kind of identify things that we want to look at and topics they want to look at.

We are not a policymaking agency, though.

That's the legislature's role.

So we will get feedback on what we think works, what we don't think works, maybe how we can be more competitive.

And our role is to educate the legislators who are conducting that joint tax credit review panel so that they have the most information this legislative session when they're considering changes.

Is there anything you would like to see them change?

Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.

I think what we advocate for is for the rest of the tax code to look more like the kind of transparency we see in these megadeals that we're talking about.

So we are one of very few states that doesn't disclose on a specific tax credit basis who is getting a tax credit, how many jobs are actually being created.

And then furthermore, we're not regularly evaluating the full host of tax programs on a regularly or orderly basis.

Most of our neighbor states are doing that.

So we could we could get a more comprehensive process.

We could get regular review and we can share with Georgians exactly where their tax dollars are going, how many jobs are being created, what the wages look like, and then be able to truly compare across those programs and see where are we getting a good deal on our investment and where could we probably get a better return doing something else?

Yeah, I know your agency has been talking at these hearings, so I know they're getting the word.

I know they're getting word.

I do want to go back into the communities.

I spoke to some people who live in the communities not far from the Hyundai plant to get their views on their new big neighbor.

I think it's a great opportunity for people to establish themselves when they move here.

Better careers for other people that want to transition into other opportunities for them.

I think it's an amazing process.

Well, how do you feel about this Hyundai plant coming in?

I think it's great for the community.

You know, during this period of time when for kind of Statesboro in general, there is an opportunity for massive amounts of growth to happen within the area with like the different jobs that it's bringing into the area as well as restaurants.

So for me, I do restaurants.

And so we're super excited for that culture to be in the area.

Things are always going to change, right?

Like at the end of the day.

Growth is what we care about.

You know, we have a small town feel and that's what's great about this area, but it doesn't hurt to have a few other things there as well.

Well, your taxes go up for your businesses and restaurants are more than likely.

I'm going to try to see if they can stay as low as possible.

But things change.

Does that bother you?

I think it's another part of growth, you know, with with anything.

I believe that there's an opportunity as things change, for things to get worse.

Without change, there's no possibility for things to get better.

Do you feel that, you know, you bring in a big company like Hyundai, they're getting the tax credit.

Should should you be getting a tax credit as a business owner?

I do.

I think in principle that that would appear to be fair.

I mean, typically those larger entities, while, yes, they can bring in momentum and open things up, but typically they're the ones who are profiting the most and we're seeing a reduction in the middle class as the wealth is transferred to the top and there's less at the bottom.

So there's there's definitely that concern.

Do you worry about the character of this particular town or the towns?

You know, you mentioned Effingham and the with these companies coming in that they're not going to be the same anymore?

I do.

I think one of the challenges will be with the workforce.

Already you're seeing a lot of the smaller businesses struggle to find the right talent to fill the seats on their their arc, their hierarchy.

And I think as these larger companies come in and have the ability to pay starting pay 19 $20 an hour.

Most small businesses can't even afford to pay a manager that kind of money.

So I think this is where it's really important to figure out effective solutions and being able to meet people's needs beyond just the paycheck because it's going to be tough to compete with the big players.

Talk a little bit overall, your feelings of the Hyundai plant coming in.

I think it's great for the area.

I mean, it is a lot a lot of traffic and it's tough right now because of all the construction and traffic's bad.

But once it's done, I think it's going to be amazing for the area and the community.

Statesboro is needed to grow for a long time.

These companies are getting big tax breaks to come in Georgia's offer.

And then but, you know, are they worth it for what you're getting from them?

I feel like, yes, I don't really understand how the tax breaks work, but those people that are they're hiring, they're coming in.

They're going to be added to the tax base.

So I think that's going to help us also.

So you think Georgia should continue to offer these tax breaks?

I think on a case by case basis, I mean, if it's something that's going to help the areas, then I would say yes.

And if that's what it takes to get people in and get businesses in, that they're always going to bring more money in.

So I don't see why not.

Are you worried about managed growth, though?

Yeah, but it's it's hard to manage growth.

I think sometimes you can say you're going to manage it, but it sometimes goes a little crazy.

You lose control.

You just got to do the best you can.

But if it's going to bring growth, I think growth is good.

Tell us, overall, your thoughts about the Hyundai plant coming in.

I think any time you can bring big business here and get people back to work in, I think it's going to be an amazing thing for this area.

What are you hearing about it?

I'm hearing a I've driven past it a couple of times and it is large, is large.

And I know the people in that community, they're excited about what is going to bring in terms of different restaurants, different, different industries.

So I think it's huge for this area and everybody seems to be open arms for it.

You know, the takes the state gave big tax breaks to bring it in.

Is it worth it, given some of the negative effects, maybe the traffic, some of the other things?

Environmentally, I think people do have some concerns environmentally.

But I think the biggest thing is getting people back to work and getting getting money back in pockets.

So I think that's that's the biggest thing that's putting this over the edge.

All right.

Overall, so positive overall, people are positive about it.

But I Andrew, I have to ask you about the person who talked about he was worried that he won't be able to hire people because they're going to have to complete compete to have workers with the plan.

Yeah, sure.

So, I mean, one of the reasons that we looked to locate Rivian in that area is the large labor pool that sits within a 45 and a 60 minute drive time.

So we envision doing targeted recruiting efforts to ensure that that there are enough employees in the area, both for Rivian and for the small businesses.

And then the other thing I would say is that, you know, when Rivian is up and running, it's going to there's going to be more money flowing into the local economy.

So those smaller businesses are going to have more money to spend on raising wages and becoming more competitive in their hiring decisions.

Now, Bert, one other thing that we heard from was business is worried that larger businesses are going to come in.

For instance, a big retailer coming in and small business owners not being able to compete with a big a big retailer.

Yeah, look, I think we have we're not the first ones that have gone through this.

And I think if you go down to West Point, down to KY. You see a lot of startups, a lot of entrepreneurs that have started businesses down there.

And you also see certainly I mean, investment flows and there'll be a mix of of likely national chains, but also local entrepreneurs that are ready to roll up their sleeves and get to work as well.

And so I think, you know, to Andrew's point, I think Dr. Thomas said it as well.

I think that the more economic activity that is being generated, the more opportunity there is to take advantage of that.

And whether you're a worker and you're working at one of these places or whether you're looking to start a business and meet a need, that might be a gap there because these big factories haven't been there before.

Then that opportunity is available to you.

And so and ultimately higher wages.

While it will be difficult to compete, certainly if you're a small business owner, that is good for our citizenry and that's good for our economy, good for people as they look for upward mobility on the economic ladder as well.

And so there's always challenges that come with growth.

And we've got a lot of them, certainly, and we're working on all of those.

But but that one is one that we're very excited about and see.

And the Savannah region, higher quality of life, higher incomes for people up and down the economic ladder where they are now.

Yeah.

Mike, your comments on that.

I completely agree.

You know, I one of the folks was mentioning something to the extent that it was sort of like a zero sum game, is that when the state has an opportunity to win a big project like this, somebody has to lose.

But I, I would disagree with that in the sense of this is a win for the state.

It pumps at the facility.

And in Bryan County, we're talking about $470 million a year at at buildout for wages and salaries that are going to be pumped into the regional economy.

That will create a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities for individuals and small business.

So you just have to position yourself as as any business would to anticipate where the needs are going to be and how your business can and can meet those needs.

So it's not a zero sum game that there are gains to be had here for the citizens and businesses in Georgia.

Yeah.

Then your concerns, I think, you know, in some ways we're imagining out sort of the ideal problems to have.

But I think it's also worth just considering, particularly in the case of Rivian, this is a very early stage company, an incredibly competitive industry.

You know, in their last quarter quarterly report, I think they reported losing $31,000 per vehicle that they're able to deliver.

So they have a long way to go to profitability.

I know we have, you know, clawbacks in here that protect some of these resources, but it is still a long road ahead to hopefully get to success and be able to meet these promised returns.

Definitely a changing Georgia.

I want each one of you maybe a sentence or two on just telling everybody what what you think the future of Georgia in the job space will look like.

Mike, I actually want to start with you.

I think the opportunities for Georgia to position itself as a leader in these technologies of the future is is going to set up the state's economy for 50 years.

Right.

Think about what happened in the automobile industry in the upper Midwest when it, you know, came into fruition and it blossomed in the early 20th century.

The infrastructure, the businesses were in place for the next 50 to 75 years.

So Georgia is at the leading edge of a growth industry that's going to have solid economic prospects for the next 25 to 50 years.

Wow.

Yeah.

And I would just add that we're talking about one specific industry.

But, you know, Georgia is really thriving in a lot of different areas as well.

In Savannah, we certainly have the ports that are they're growing like crazy.

We have our tourism industry that continues to grow and new investment coming in.

And our military is a really big, important part of our economy down on the coast.

And and so you can continue to look at these different industries.

This is just one that we're talking about today.

And in metro Atlanta, we've got fintech and all kinds of incredible research being done at Georgia Tech and Emory, some of our great universities.

And so the story of this technological innovation story for Georgia isn't just limited just to this.

If we really are leading on a number of areas, and that's also what you want to have a a diverse economy that isn't reliant on just one one sector.

Yeah.

And Andrew, you probably have a bigger picture than everybody on all of this.

So your thoughts and what do you want people to know?

Yeah, I mean, I think we're going through the auto industry.

The e-mobility industry is going through the largest change since the Industrial revolution.

These are the jobs of tomorrow.

These are the new technologies we we want to strike while the iron is hot.

We want these jobs in Georgia and we want to provide great opportunities for our citizens for the next decades.

All right, Daniel, we'll let you finish up.

Yeah, well, you know, to compliment the Department of Economic Development, I mean, I think one of the great successes is the Quickstart program, where we're integrating our technical colleges with these workforce development programs.

I think the next step is to invest in the state's health care system, our education system.

That's really the missing piece, where if we put the resources there, I think we can really take advantage of this growth and hopefully position our state to be very successful at long term.

It's certainly a lot to look at and a lot of change that we're going to we're going to watch happen.

And I appreciate you all being here to talk about that.

Thank you so much.

So next, we're going to look into how innovation will shift, how companies operate.

How are artificial intelligence tools and technologies such as robots changing the workforce?

Experts join me with some answers.

When lawmakers Beyond the Dome continue.

Welcome back to lawmakers Beyond the Dome, as we give you a clearer understanding of the changing workforce in Georgia, we're going to look closer at artificial intelligence and other innovations changing work environments throughout the state.

The education company Fathom predicts about 40% of jobs across the state will be automated in the next 15 years.

Here to talk about that and more are Matthew Galbally, an assistant professor of interactive computing at Georgia Tech.

He's an A.I.

expert with a Ph.D. in autonomous systems.

Max Davis Whitehill has a Ph.D. in marketing and is the Rebecca Cheney McGreevy Endowed Chair and professor of marketing at Emory University's Courseware Business School.

And also here, security.

Morain is the director of Innovation Solutions at Russell Center for Innovation or Race and Economic Mobility Engine for black owned businesses.

And we're pleased once again to have the president and CEO of the Savannah Chamber of Commerce, Bert Brantley.

He'll continue to join us for the show.

So welcome to those who are here joining us right now.

Most of us are familiar with Chat JPT.

It's hard to believe it officially launched publicly a year ago this month, but it and other generative AI tools are just a piece of what's taking place in workplace technology.

And Georgia A.I.

Manufacturing Coalition or Georgia AME says, quote, Artificial intelligence will be a ubiquitous feature of any successful manufacturer.

So we've been talking about manufacturing.

So, Matthew, give us a big picture of what all of that means.

Sure.

Why don't we start with what artificial intelligence even is.

Okay.

I like to think of it as the scientific endeavor and trying to figure out what it what intelligence is, what makes us smart relative to other animals or even inanimate objects.

And so we try to develop computer algorithms with machine code that approximates that intelligence that we have.

And people catch up to is a particular instance of A.I.

that has completely revolutionized everything.

My students are using it now to help them write computer code to build more A.I., which is pretty incredible.

I think it is going to have a profound impact, really now, speculating still what is going to happen for us here.

It's going to impact education tremendously.

How do we even test students anymore?

That's something we're wrestling with.

But it's going to be used in everything from the law office to the marketing room.

Well, David, I want to talk about how it's going to be used in the workforce, in particular manufacturing and some of these jobs we've talked about today.

Absolutely.

So we've seen kind of a shift from manual labor to automation, robotics.

And so now we're not just going to be looking at manufacturing jobs where A.I.

and robotics are going to play a role, but you're going to see service jobs that are affected.

We're talking about content creators.

So as Matthew mentioned, you know, marketing through text, video, visuals all of that creative content can now be generated with artificial intelligence.

You know, decisions that managers used to be making could now be supported by or entirely made by machine.

There was one study, I believe it was the Boston Consulting Group that paired their consultants with chat and demonstrated significant improvement in their performance, but also increased productivity.

So they were we do a better job in less time.

And we're seeing that across the board from, again, writing content to taking law exams.

So you might be talking about the need for fewer lawyers, lower legal fees.

We saw a AI feature in both the Writers Guild and the Screen Actors Guild strike.

So know big entertainment industry down in Georgia.

We're going to see an impact there.

So it's really difficult to envision a an industry that's not going to be touched by AI in some way.

Yeah.

And to to know that GPT has done so much in one year is amazing.

Zachary, I want to talk about, you know, so the blue collar jobs that we consider blue collar jobs.

What changes might we see in that space?

Sure.

Well, I'll tell you what we're doing at the Russell Innovation Center for Entrepreneurs.

We're working on the Georgia AME Project that you alluded to.

And that project we're working in collaboration with the University of Georgia's engineering school.

And the goal is to go around the state of Georgia in a mobile vehicle and have two major KPIs.

One is to have 4800 engagements where we teach people have exposed them to artificial intelligence and what is what is capable of.

And the second is to create 200 manufacturing jobs.

And I think as we look at both of those KPIs, we're looking to engage people who wouldn't otherwise have access to this knowledge.

And so as we build a workforce in the state of Georgia, this allows us to start from the bottom up with people who don't always have access, but making sure that their ideas, their premonitions, their thoughts are included as we build out.

Because we know that just with any new technology, there could be bias this intrinsic within it, that we have to make sure that everyone has a voice at the table so that it ends up being fair for all of those that it's used for trying not to leave people behind.

And I know a bird down in the Savannah area with the Hyundai in and everything else that these tech jobs are people are worried about whether they're going to be able to get them.

But there's a lot of training taking a lot of training, and the state is putting in a significant amount of resources.

And, you know, we see this as is frankly, the next step for people using their knowledge and their capacity to do a really great whether they're an entrepreneur and starting their own business or whether they're working for an employer, you know, really using their full potential to maximize their work effort and maximize the return on the effort that they give every day.

And we think that will end up, you know, hopefully with higher salaries and higher wages, higher earnings and all that accrues to the region as a whole, to the state, as a whole.

So this is incredibly exciting.

And, you know, we're excited to see our little piece of the state down the coast to really, really welcome this and and encourage our small businesses.

You know, we had a board member in a board meeting just a couple weeks ago who wrote a job description while sitting in our board meeting using Chad.

And of course, they used that to start and then they edited it.

And but that's an incredible efficiency that was generated because somebody had already done that somewhere out in the world and taken advantage of that, not having to start from scratch.

They were able to do it.

And in just a few minutes, it's changing everything.

And you don't have to go far to see some of the technology changes when it comes to the workforce.

So we went to a recent Atlanta Braves game to see the free driverless shuttles now transporting people around the battery.

The Cumberland Hopper has two routes, one that crosses I-285, that in the transit area and the pedestrian bridge, and another that loops around the Galleria office park.

And right now there is one hopper, but the goal is to expand to eight autonomous vehicles, and the shuttle has sensors to detect pedestrians and cycle us and other obstacles.

And I spoke to some of the riders to get their thoughts about the Cumberland Hopper and the impact that A.I.

will have on their lives.

It's scary, you know, just somebody not being in control of it.

And of course, some people don't need to be in control of their own vehicle.

So we'll see.

And so I think it's the way that it's coming.

Yeah, let's talk about that.

They're even talking about driverless trucks.

Okay.

18 wheelers.

Yeah, that could be dangerous.

It's all electronic.

You never know.

It's the wave of the future, though, isn't it?

It is.

I think, you know, it's definitely coming for sure.

Well, I think it'll be very helpful in reducing congestion.

I think as we for instance, there is something.

KURTZ, about the technology that I'm looking forward to.

I really do feel that it will help me, as I age, become more be able to be more independent.

I'll be able to get to the doctor, I'll be able to get to the grocery store under circumstances where I can no longer drive.

So there are many pieces of AI that I'm looking forward to actually as an aging person.

I'm not sure how I feel about it being on the road.

That seems a little risky.

Too much traffic?

Pretty much.

Not crazy about it.

I just don't see not having a person driving it.

I want a person driving the car in front me and behind me not.

Yeah.

And thinking about the trucks on the road with driverless, that would not be good to me at all.

Like, I don't know, the 18 wheelers were bad enough with a driver.

With no driver.

I'm just not real comfortable with that.

So it's one thing to be on this bridge.

It's another thing to be on I 75.

Yeah.

What do you think?

I'm I'm.

I'm not nearly as close to doing that as I was to getting on here.

What about you?

Not yet.

I don't think they're ready yet.

Totally.

They're there.

I think we're right on the verge.

But you still hear of too many instances where they go wrong.

You know, the.

You know they're coming.

Including driverless trucks.

Right.

What do you think.

Pretty scary to think about, but it's the future.

What about artificial intelligence in general?

Like, what are you thinking about it?

It's.

It's the future.

It's here now.

You got it all the time.

Okay.

Tell me about that.

Well, I'm in real estate, so I use it for chat.

GPT three, and, you know, it writes for me and does all kind of stuff for me that used to take me forever because I'm not a writer.

So I'll give it my ideas.

And then it spews out this beautiful, organized, you know, whatever I was doing, had description of a house or whatever.

It's going to eliminate a lot of jobs.

Tell me about that.

Well, I mean, come on, you got artificial intelligence is going to wipe out 10 to 1 at least.

So, you know, it's the wave of the future, but you better get behind it and find something else to do.

I'm not the biggest fan of A.I.

right now, so just for that reason, I mean, it's going to put us in an awkward situation, I think, when it comes to people finding jobs and being able to work and then what is AI going to really be able to do when it comes to construction or, you know, physical labor jobs?

Are they going to help us?

Because that's where we're hurting a lot in in the U.S. is the labor force in general.

I mean, I do construction for a living.

And so the biggest thing I've got right now is trying to find employees.

How are we going to do that?

Whether they are our home is is loaded with automation, Alexa, and all of the lighting, our television, everything.

I can control my voice.

Are we as a country ready for all of this?

My fix it?

I think a lot of people are, especially younger people.

I mean, you know, my generation are not native to technology, but I think the younger generations that are native technology, yeah, I think they're ready for what is artificial intelligence, maybe robots.

Yeah, I think it's robots taking data and using it to do new things almost.

The thing is sometimes like, you know, you've seen like AI art and music and stuff like that, which is cool.

But also, you know, some of it's a little, you know, we don't know enough about.

Yeah.

What about you?

I feel like it's the future, so we should just be ready to see what what it entails.

So, Shaqiri, you heard some people talk about that.

They're most worried about that technology taking away jobs.

What do you what do you say?

That people I've heard somebody call it the Armageddon of technology.

A.I.

is a what?

What do you foresee happening?

Sure.

You know, I think the first thing is to give a warm embrace to people to understand that this really is something that people are afraid of or they have fears about.

And some of those fears can be legitimate.

And over the last few months, we've gone into the community and had community engagement panels where we are engaging and asking questions.

And the first thing we're figuring out is people are scared of the skill gap.

How am I going to get from where I am today?

And the skills that we learn in public school to the applied math and applied science that I'm going to need to actually have these jobs.

The second thing we're learning is, as people like myself engage in artificial intelligence, how do we use it?

When I get a response from GPT three, what do I do when I get that response?

So for example, today I go to a restaurant and I give a Yelp review if I want to, if it really makes sense for me.

But in the future for GPT, it's very important for everyone to realize that now you have to give a response that giving a response is part of your responsibility to make sure that the air remains accurate over time.

So I do think that first we have to make sure that we acknowledge the fear, understand the fear and embrace it, and then we come at that fear with some real education on what else is possible after we surpass that fear.

Yeah, Matthew, let's talk about that fear a little bit more.

And that skilled gap, it's it's it's real where people think I'm not going to be able to do these jobs.

Yes, I see the skills gap becoming an increasingly difficult issue as A.I.

gets more and more complicated and you're going to need more and more computer science, mathematics training.

But how do we keep the entire nation up with that exponential progress?

It's a really difficult challenges that educators haven't figured out, and I think the fears perhaps are even more systemic than that, particularly when we look at politics and how these tools can be used to create fake entities to put out misinformation, whether it's about vaccines or particular political candidates, these things can be weaponized.

And I think that is something that we're concerned about opening.

I and others have taken at CBT, which is I trained on the Internet where everyone just talks to try to understand how people communicate.

But there's a lot of racist, bigoted, sexist content on the Internet.

So to make it, quote unquote, safe, you have to come up with what's known as a constitution.

But now we have private entities coming up with these constitutions for what is moral or how these systems are used.

That is very controversial.

And I think we need guardrails in place to make people feel safe.

We need top down legislation as well as working with academia right now.

That's not really happening.

The companies are getting right now to just kind of dictate and innovate, which is fascinating.

But ultimately it's not reassuring.

And I know that Emory has a humanities AEI.

Talk a little bit about that, too, looks at ethics and some of the things we're concerned about.

You know, our president and provost have put in place in what they call the humanity initiative.

And it really does kind of take that human perspective and kind of layer that on top of these these automated systems.

And so just as Matthew had said of, you know, we're going to have issues with misinformation, we're going to have issues with accuracy, we're going to have issues with regards to biases.

Well, let's understand how people are interacting with that, not just as employees, but also as members of society?

And what are the what are the guardrails that need to be developed?

You know, how do we kind of interact with this technology as it continues to evolve now?

I tend to think I'm a little bit more optimistic in some sense because I see the potential for the jobs that I can create.

For us, there are jobs that we can't envision right now.

So there is the you know, there are the jobs that are going to be lost potentially due to AI, but there are also going to be new jobs that we might not have envisioned that are now going to be possible.

Yeah, Bert, good to take it from here.

I think it's important to think about we thought these same things about robots and computers and phones in our pockets and, you know, as long as these three guys and the folks that are like them, particularly at Georgia, play such a key role at Georgia Tech and Emory in the Rice Center, we've got folks that are looking out and they're working on this and they're trying to make sure that we're doing this in a really positive way.

So I'm I share your optimism.

I think we've got really smart people that are looking to maximize it.

Optimize it.

Yeah.

They'll be better folks out there.

They do bad things.

That happens, unfortunately, all over the world in a lot of different ways.

But as long as we got good folks that are looking and trying to set those boundaries and making sure that we use it in a really good way, I feel really optimistic about it as well.

Shaqiri I want to get back to talking about those jobs.

This mobile unit that you guys are, you're going to go around to rural areas, you'll be all over the state kind of helping people understand this a little bit more.

Absolutely.

And what we've done is like broken the state down by where it makes the most sense.

So we're in Savannah.

We're going to be thinking about logistics and supply chain.

When we're in Columbus, we'll be thinking fintech.

When we go to Augusta, we may be thinking cybersecurity.

And so as we go around the state, we want to make sure that we are tapering our message to what that part of the state really needs and how they're going to engage in artificial intelligence.

So I don't think that is going to be a blanket sort of understanding of how we engage with artificial intelligence and how we use it.

But as we go around each stop on the mobile bus, we want to show the people in that space, how can you use this?

How can it work for you?

And as they come on and they engage with those technology modules, sure, we have to get engagements.

We have to have them to fill out a survey.

But the more important thing is that they learn that this is one cool technology.

But what are all of the jobs around their technology that you could also do?

So some of that is going to be really important.

Yeah.

Matthew, when it comes, you know, the big fear is I'm going to be replaced.

How do you how do you deal?

How do you talk to people about their.

Yes, I went to chat CBT first came out.

I asked it a simple logic question, and we teach basic computer science students for how a fox, a hen and some grain are going to get across the river and the fox will eat the hen.

The hen will eat the grain.

And you know, there's certain constraints on how you get them across the river.

And it gives me the perfect answer when I ask it the way the textbook does.

If I switch it so that the hen eats the fox and the green, it's the hen gives me nonsense.

There's an epic debate on Twitter among the leaders in our field about whether this technology really is the future.

Is it actually intelligence or is it just a really good, what we call a stochastic puppet or parrot excuse me, a stochastic parrot and tend to sit on that campus?

It's a really good at worst magic trick.

Now, the other end, it could actually be a really good tool, but you need savvy users to be able to work with it to get content.

That is actually true.

It's not a what we call a hallucination, just a fake bit of nonsense.

And so I don't think it's going to automate anything in any kind of domain where you need accuracy or accountability, but it can be a productivity amplifier.

I think that there will need to be kind of lifelong continual education for people in the workforce, whether it's teachers already have continuing education requirements.

Doctors have to go through continuing education.

We might actually start seeing that through many other domains to be able to take advantage of these tools and stay relevant.

But I don't see these jobs just disappearing.

Yeah, you take the fear out by continuing to educate people.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think if the analogy of the stochastic parrot is spot on, it's you know, we've had autocomplete when it comes to email and text messages for a while.

We're comfortable with that.

That's really all that chat is.

It's auto complete with a really powerful database to draw from and what needs to happen as you put that in the hands of people who are comfortable using it and who know the domain that they're working in.

And that's where you're going to see those productivity gains.

You know, we've done some work where we've seen content created for 80 to 90% less cost.

We've looked at visual content being produced that is more effective than average visual content, again, because the data that's going in based on what's popular.

Yeah, we put into it.

Yeah, I think I think we're just going to have to wait and see how things happen.

We'll talk about a year from now.

All right.

Thank you all for being here today.

That's all we have for our show.

I want to thank all the guests for more on this topic and other Georgia news, go to GPB.

And of course, when the General Assembly reconvenes, we'll have lawmakers.

Have a great evening.