♪♪ >>> THE RESOLVE IS GEORGIA'S JUDGES, TO UPHOLD THE RULE OF LAW AND PROVIDE EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL, IS AS STRONG AS EVER IN SPITE OF THE DIFFICULTIES CREATED BY THE COVID PANDEMIC FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS NOW.

>>> IN HIS STATE OF THE JUDICIARY ADDRESS THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE OFFERS A REALITY CHECK ON HOW COVID-19 HAS AFFECTED THE ALREADY OVERBURDENED COURT SYSTEM STATEWIDE.

WELCOME TO LAWMAKERS ON THIS LEGISLATIVE DAY 13.

I'M DONNA LOWRY.

AFTER THE STATE OF ADDRESS, I WENT TO THE GEORGIA SUPREME COURT TO DO A MORE EXTENSIVE INTERVIEW WITH THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE.

HE EXPANDED WHY HELP IS NEEDED IN THE AREA OF MENTAL HEALTH AND WHY GEORGIA'S COUNTIES NEED TO GIVE MONEY FROM THE COVID RELIEF FUNDS TO THEIR COURT SOMES.

AND DUOLAWMAKERS WHO ARE PRACTICING ATTORNEYS WILL GIVE US THEIR PERSPECTIVE HOW THE COURTS ARE FARING.

WE HEAD TO BRENDA WATERS AT THE GOLD DOME FOR THE NEWS OF THE DAY.

HI, BRENDA.

>> Reporter: A BIG DAY, INDEED, IN THE HOUSE, DURING A JOINT LEGISLATIVE SESSION OF THE GEORGIA GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IT WAS THE ANNUAL STATE OF THE JUDICIARY ADDRESS.

IN HIS FIRST STATE OF THE JUDICIARY ADDRESS CHIEF JUSTICE DAVID NAMISA FOCUSED ON CHALLENGES IN OUR COURTS CREATED BY THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

>> VIRTUAL PROCEEDINGS ARE ONE OF THE LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE PANDEMIC THAT WILL BE USED LONG AFTER IT DISSIPATES.

WE'VE FOUND THAT FOR MANY PROCEEDINGS WITH FEW PARTICIPANTS AND LIMITED EVIDENTIARY DISPUTES ZOOM HEARINGS CAN BE AS EFFECTIVE, AND OFTEN FAR MORE EFFICIENT, THAN TRADITIONAL PROCEEDINGS WITH EVERYONE IN A COURTROOM.

>> Reporter: THE CHIEF JUSTICE WENT ON TO SAY THAT MOST COURTS HAVE ALSO MOVED TO USING VIDEO CONFERENCING FOR INITIAL APPEARANCES, AND BOND HEARINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES, REDUCING THE TIME, COST AND SECURITY RISK INVOLVED IN TRANSPORTING DEFENDANTS BETWEEN DETENTION FACILITIES AND COURTHOUSES.

>> MANY OF THESE VIRTUAL PROCEEDINGS CAN AND SHOULD BE PART OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM'S NEW NORMAL WHEN COVID BECOMES JUST A MEMORY.

AND LOOKING FORWARD, I ALSO HAVE THE HOPE THAT THE TECHNOLOGICAL LESSONS WE'VE BEEN LEARNING WITH HELP WITH LONG STANDING CONCERNS ABOUT ACCESS TO JUSTICE BY POOR AND LOWER INCOME GEORGIANS WHO NEED LEGAL HELP WITH ISSUES AFFECTING FAMILIES, HEALTH, HOME AND JOBS.

>> Reporter: MANY JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS LAWFULLY REQUIRE EVERYONE BE IN THE COURTROOM.

>> THEY'VE DONE SO BY REQUIRING MASKS AND IMPROVING VENTILATION AND SANITATION.

THEY'VE RECONFIGURED COURTROOMS TO SOCIALLY DISTANCE JURORS AND OTHER PARTICIPANTS, OR WHEN THE COURTROOMS JUST WEREN'T BIG ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE JURY TRIALS AND JURY SELECTION, THEY BROTHERED OR RENTED LARGER FACILITIES WHERE POSSIBLE.

WE MUST ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT COURT CASES ARE ABOUT REAL PEOPLE, OUR FELLOW GEORGIANS.

>> Reporter: HE SAYS TRIAL COURTS ARE STILL STRUGGLING TO DEAL WITH THE BACKLOGS IN CASES CAUSED BY THE PANDEMIC BUT THERE'S FUNDING AVAILABLE THROUGH THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT.

>> FUNDING HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN A SHARED RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE AND THE COUNTIES, AND WE NEED MORE COUNTIES TO STEP UP AND CONTRIBUTE SOME OF THE FUNDS THAT THEY'RE RECEIVING DIRECTLY TO ADDRESS THE BACKLOGS OF CASES IN THEIR COUNTY'S COURTS.

>> Reporter: THE CHIEF JUSTICE ALSO ADDRESSED HIS CONCERNS ABOUT THE GROWING PROBLEM OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES SHOWING UP IN COURT.

>> I WANT TO MENTION ONE LAST PANDEMIC-RELATED ISSUE.

STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESSES ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE INCARCERATED THAN HOSPITALIZED.

OUR JAILS HAVE BECOME OUR DE FACTO MENTAL INSTITUTIONS.

AND OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM HAS STRUGGLED FOR MANY YEARS WITH HOW TO DEAL WITH OFFENDERS WHO HAVE UNADDRESSED BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES.

THE PANDEMIC HAS SIGNIFICANTLY MAGNIFIED THESE CHALLENGES.

ADDRESSING THIS PROBLEM IS NOT JUST GOOD FOR OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM AND OUR ECONOMY, IT'S A MORAL IMPERATIVE FOR OUR STATE.

>> THE CHIEF JUSTICE SAYS WE ARE WEATHERING THE SYMPTOM STORM, AND WE WILL EMERGE BETTER THAN WE WERE BEFORE.

>>> AND SENATE BILL 370 PASSED UNANIMOUSLY TODAY, IT PAVES THE WAY FOR AGED OUT FOSTER YOUTH.

THIS BIPARTISAN BILL KNOWN AS THE FOSTERING SUCCESS ACT CREATES TAX CREDITS THAT GENERATE FUNDS FOR YOUTH WHO HAVE RECENTLY AGED OUT OF THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM, WITHOUT THIS SUPPORT, SENATOR BILL KOWSERT SAYS THESE TEENS FACE TOUGH ODDS.

>> WHAT WE HAVE FOUND, THERE ARE STATISTICS THAT JUST MAKE YOU WANT TO CRY.

70%, OR MORE, OF THE FEMALES COMING OUT, AGING OUT OF FOSTER CARE, GET PREGNANT.

AS ESSENTIALLY TEENAGERS.

A GREAT PERCENTAGE, MORE THAN 50% OF THE KIDS THAT ARE CAUGHT UP IN THIS SEX TRAFFICKING CAME FROM A FOSTER CARE ENVIRONMENT.

50 TO 60% OF THOSE CHILDREN CAME FROM FOSTER CARE, ESPECIALLY ON MALES, IT'S MIND BOGGLING, MORE THAN 50% OF THEM WILL BE INCARCERATED WITHIN A YEAR OF BEING OUT OF FOSTER CARE.

>> AS A PRODUCT OF THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM, REPRESENTATIVE ERICA THOMAS KNOWS TOO WELL THE NEED FOR SB-370.

SHE ENTERED COST FOSTER CARE IN HER SOPHOMORE YEAR HIGH SCHOOL, SHE WAS 15 AND HAD ALREADY BEEN IN FIVE DIFFERENT HOMES.

>> WE HAVE OVER 14,000 CHILDREN IN THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM RIGHT NOW AND NO ONE HAS TO DATE THOUGHT ABOUT PUTTING TOGETHER TAX ENSINTIVES FOR THE ORGANIZATIONS AND CARETAKERS DOING GREAT WORK WITH THE FOSTER KIDS OUT THERE, AND THEY NEED HELP.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

YOU KNOW, WE DON'T PAY FOSTER PARENTS ENOUGH.

WE DON'T PAY CASEWORKERS ENOUGH.

AND THEY NEED THESE SUPPORT SYSTEMS.

SO THE LEAST WE COULD DO IS GET TAX INCENTIVES TO PEOPLE THAT ARE ALREADY DOING THE WORK.

>> SB-370 WILL NOW MAKE ITS WAY TO THE HOUSE.

WE KNOW IT HAS HER VOTE.

>>> IT WAS GEORGIA FARM BUREAU DAY AT THE CAPITOL, OUTSIDE THE CAPITOL THERE WAS FARM EQUIPMENT AND A SPECIAL ROLLING CLASSROOM THAT DREW A PRETTY GOOD CROWD.

>> THIS IS THE GEORGIA AG EXPERIENCE, IT'S A 36 FOOT MOBILE AGRICULTURE CLASSROOM.

WE TRAVEL AROUND THE STATE VISITING ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND STUDENTS IN GRADES 3rd, 4th AND 5th.

WE'RE REALLY TEACHING THEM ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF AGRICULTURE, FUTURE CAREERS IN AGRICULTURE, AND REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHY IT IS OUR NUMBER ONE INDUSTRY IN GEORGIA.

>> IT WAS ALSO OKIFINOKI DAY AT THE CAPITOL, THE LARGEST BLACK SWAMP IN NORTH AMERICA AND ONE OF THE SEVEN WONDERS OF THE WORLD.

DONNA, IF IT'S OKIFINOKI WITH YOU, THAT'S MY CAPITOL REPORT, BACK TO YOU.

>> IT CERTAINLY IS, THANK YOU SO MUCH, BRENDA.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>>> IN HIS STATE OF THE JUDICIARY ADDRESS, GEORGIA SUPREME COURT JUSTICE DAVID NAMIAS GAVE LAWMAKERS AN UPDATE WITH HOW THE COURT SYSTEM IS STRUGGLING WITH COVID-RELATED ISSUES.

LATER HE EXPANDED ON THOSE ISSUES IN AN INTERVIEW WITH ME.

I ASKED ABOUT THE BACKLOG OF CASES, HOW HE WANTS COUNTIES TO HELP STEP UP WITH LOCAL COURTS AND THE NEED FOR CRITICAL HELP IN THE AREA OF MENTAL HEALTH.

I STARTED BY ASKING HIM WHY HE SAYS VIRTUAL COURT PROCEEDINGS WITH PART OF THE NEW NORMAL IN THE STATE'S COURT SYSTEM.

>> JUDGES ARE FAIRLY RESISTANT TO TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGE.

WE WERE KIND OF FORCED TO LEARN HOW TO USE VIDEO CONFERENCE TECHNOLOGY, AND IT'S BEEN USED VERY WIDELY NOW IN ALL LEVELS OF COURTS FOR PROCEEDINGS THAT DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF PARTICIPANTS, OR A WHOLE LOT OF EVEN DEN -- THE COURTROOM WE'RE IN NOW HAS USED REMOTE ORAL ARGUMENTS, OFF AND ON, WE USED THEM FOR ABOUT A YEAR DURING THE BEGINNING OF COVID, AND THEN WHEN VACCINES ROLLED AROUND AND THE SITUATION WAS BETTER WE WENT IN PERSON.

WHEN THINGS GOT BAD AGAIN IN THE FALL WITH DELTA WE WENT REMOTE, WE CAME BACK IN PERSON, AND IN JANUARY, WHEN OMICRON HIT, WE WENT REMOTE, WHICH ALLOWED ME, I HAD COVID IN JANUARY, AND ACTUALLY WAS ABLE TO PRESIDE OVER ORAL ARGUMENTS FROM ISOLATION IN MY HOUSE.

SO IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO DO NOW, AND THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER PROCEEDINGS, LAWYERS LOVE NOT HAVING TO GO TO A COURTHOUSE FOR A FIVE MINUTE CALENDAR.

DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH SECURITY, WAIT AROUND AND THEN GET CALLED TO TALK ABOUT THE STATUS OF THEIR CASE.

AND SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE VERY VALUABLE FOR THE SYSTEM AND WILL CONTINUE MOVING FORWARD.

THE HARD PART IS, THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF THINGS IN OUR SYSTEM WE CAN'T DO REMOTELY.

>> IT'S MADE IT MORE EFFICIENT, THOUGH, IN MANY WAYS, DO YOU THINK, MAYBE YOU GOT THERE A LOT FASTER IN TERMS OF TECHNOLOGY, THAN YOU WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE.

>> IF I SAID I THINK WE'VE MADE MORE PROGRESS IN TWO YEARS THAN WE WOULD HAVE IN TWO DECADES WITHOUT THE IMPETUS OF HAVING TO MAKE CHANGE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT INNOVATION IN THE COURTROOM IN OTHER WAYS.

>> COURTS AND JUDGES ACROSS THE STATE HAVE COME UP WITH PRETTY INNOVATIVE THINGS TO TRY TO MAKE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO COME TO COURTROOMS SAFE, AND THAT'S A KPEE POINT WE ALWAYS WANT TO EMPHASIZE IS UNLIKE MANY PARTS OF OUR SOCIETY, WHERE YOU CAN DECIDE FOR YOURSELF WHAT LEVEL OF COVID RISK DO I WANT TO TAKE?

YOU KNOW, I'M YOUNG AND HEALTHY.

I'M HAPPY GOING TO THE GROCERY STORE.

I'LL GO TO A BASEBALL GAME.

BUT, YOU KNOW, MY 90-YEAR-OLD MOTHER MAY NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE GOING TO A GROCERY STORE OR A BASEBALL GAME.

THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO COURT USUALLY AREN'T THERE BY CHOICE.

THEY'RE EITHER THERE TO GET THEIR CASES RESOLVED, OR THEIR WITNESSES WHO GOT A SUBPOENA TO COME, OR THEIR JURORS WHO GOT SUMMONED.

IF THEY DON'T SHOW UP, THEY MAY BE HELD IN CONTEMPT.

SO WE'VE BEEN VERY SENSITIVE TO THE FACT THAT WHEN WE DO HAVE TO DO THINGS IN COURTROOMS, WE HAVE TO TRY TO MAKE THEM SAFE.

AND SO, JUDGES HAVE REQUIRED MASKS.

THEY'VE IMPROVED VENTILATION SYSTEMS.

THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF RECONFIGURING OF COURTROOMS.

SO EVERYONE'S NOT SITTING RIGHT ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

SOMETIMES THE JURORS SIT IN A GALLERY INSTEAD OF ALL TOGETHER IN WHAT WE USED TO CALL THE JURY BOX.

AND SOMETIMES THAT WORKS.

SOMETIMES THE COURTROOMS AREN'T BIG ENOUGH FOR THAT.

SO THEY'VE HAD TO FIND OTHER SPACES.

A BIG CHALLENGE IS JURY SELECTION.

WE ONLY NEED SIX OR 12 JURORS FOR ACTUAL TRIALS.

BUT A LOT OF TIMES YOU HAVE TO SELECT THOSE SIX OR 12 FROM 50, OR FOR A BIG TRIAL, MAYBE 500.

THAT'S HARD TO DO IN ALMOST ANY OF OUR REGULAR COURTROOMS.

WE'VE RENTED, HAD JUDGES RENT OUT THE JAMES BROWN ARENA IN AUGUSTA, THE ICE RINK AT THE COLUMBUS CIVIC CENTER.

THE CLASSIC CENTER BECAUSE THOSE WERE BIG SPACES WHERE THEY COULD TRY TO DO SOME PROCEEDINGS WITH SOCIAL DISTANCING, OTHER PROCESSES TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE.

I WILL SAY, SOME OF THOSE FACILITIES POSE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE KIND OF SECURITY MEASURES COURSE HOUSES ARE DESIGNED WITH, PARLY HOLDING CELLS FOR DEFENDANTS.

THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH CREATIVE WAYS FOR SECURITY AND THEY HAVE COMPLICATED ACOUSTICS.

COURTROOMS ARE SMALL IN PART SO EVERYONE CAN SEE AND HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON.

YOU PUT 100 JURORS IN THE JAMES BROWN ARENA, AND IT CAN BE VERY HARD FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS, SO, AGAIN, CREATIVITY, THE AUGUSTA JUDGES BOUGHT THE KIND OF WIRELESS HEADSETS YOU USE TO DO A MUSEUM TOUR, FAIRLY CHEAP, YOU KNOW, BUT EFFECTIVE.

AND GAVE THEM ALL THE PROSPECTIVE JURORS, THE LITIGANTS, THE LAWYERS, THE JUDGE AND EVERYONE COULD HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT BACKLOG NOW.

I LIKED YOUR ANALOGY, COMPARING IT TO BRAVES CANCELLING GAMES AND NOT HAVING TO MAKE THEM UP.

YOU DON'T HAVE THAT LUXURY.

>> WE ALWAYS HAVE NEW CASES COMING IN AND OUR SYSTEM IN MANY PLACES OPERATES AT CLOSE TO 100% CAPACITY IN GOOD TIMES.

SO YOU HAVE BACKLOG PUT ON TOP OF NEW CASES, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THE BRAVES.

TWO YEARS AGO, THE BRAVES HAD 102 GAMES AND THEIR SEASON CANCELLED IN 2020.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO REPLAY THOSE, THEY WERE CANCELLED.

IF THEY HAD TO REPLAY THEM AND GOT ANOTHER 102 GAMES CANCELLED IN 2021.

THIS SEASON THEY'D BE LOOKING AT ANOTHER SEASON.

ALL 362 GAMES THROUGH THE TWO YEARS OF 102 GAMES THAT DIDN'T GET PLAYED.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, HOW THE SYSTEM KIND OF BUILDS UP MORE CASES, YOU REALLY START TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A LOT OF OUR COURTS ARE FEELING LIKE THEY'RE FACING.

>> CASES KEEP GETTING FILED IN THE COURTS AT HIGHER RATES, YOU SAID, THAN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DEALING WITH THE BACKLOG, AND THEN THE HIGHER RATES THAT ARE COMING IN, BECAUSE WE'RE SEEING THE CRIME RATES RISE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> WE ARE SEEING CRIME RATES RISE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT UNIFORM ACROSS THE STATE.

BUT IN PLACES THEY ARE SIGNIFICANTLY UP, A LOT OF THOSE CASES ARE SERIOUS ON FELONIES, THAT TEND TO GO TO TRIAL MORE, BECAUSE OF THE STAKES FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED.

WE HAVE MORE GANG RELATED CASES, WHICH INVOLVE MULTIPLE DEFENDANTS.

AND SO ALL THESE ISSUES ARE GETTING KIND OF MORE SIGNIFICANT.

THOSE ARE THE INCOMING CASES, AND THEN WE HAVE ALL THESE CASES FROM THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT WE'RE STILL TRYING TO DEAL WITH.

SO IT IS A CHALLENGE.

>> YEAH.

YOU ASKED FOR COUNTIES TO ALLOCATE MORE MONEY FOR THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN MONEY.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT IN HELPING TO IMPROVE THINGS?

>> SO, WE HAVE CAPACITY, AND OUR NORMAL BUDGETS KIND OF PAY FOR NORMAL CAPACITY.

WE HAVE TO CLEAR OUT THESE BACKLOGS.

SO SOMEWHERE WE HAVE TO BUILD CAPACITY ABOVE OUR NORMAL CAPACITY, GOVERNOR KEMP ALLOCATED $110 MILLION OF THE STATE'S AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT, ARPA FUNDS THAT CAME FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM TO HELP BUILD CAPACITY WITH TEMPORARY FACILITIES AND TEMPORARY HIRING OF JUDGES AND PROSECUTORS.

AND THAT'S BEEN VERY HELPFUL.

WE'VE TRIED TO QUICKLY GET APPLICATIONS AND START PUSHING THAT MONEY OUT BUT THAT'S $110 MILLION FOR 159 COUNTIES.

EACH COUNTY IN GEORGIA GETS SIGNIFICANT DIRECT FEDERAL COVID RELIEF FUNDS.

SOME OF THEM HAVE ALLOCATED SOME OF THAT MONEY TO THEIR COURT SYSTEMS, AND COURTS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A SHARED RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE AND THE COUNTIES.

FULTON COUNTY HAS -- IS OUR BIGGEST COUNTY, IT HAS OUR BIGGEST CASE BACKLOGS, BUT IT ALLOCATED $75 MILLION OF THE FULTON COUNTY ARPA MONEY TO HELP ITS COURTS CLEAR OUT BACKLOGS.

NOW, NOT EVERY OTHER COUNTY HAS BACKLOGS OF THAT SIGNIFICANCE, BUT NOT EVERY COUNTY HAS ALLOCATED ANY OF ITS MONEY TO ARPA -- TO HELP CLEAR OUT BACKLOGS.

SO WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE COUNTY LEADERSHIP, AND TRYING TO GET THE WORD OUT, THAT, YOU KNOW, COUNTIES ARE GOING TO NEED TO SPEND SOME OF THE MONEY THEY'RE GETTING FOR COVID RELIEF, FOR ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS ANY GOVERNMENT DOES, WHICH IS RUN A COURT SYSTEM, A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO GET THEIR DISPUTES RESOLVED, INCLUDING THESE CRIMINAL CASES THAT HAVE BUILT UP.

>> YOU THANKED HOUSE SPEAKER DAVID RALSTON FOR THE BIG MENTAL HEALTH BILL HE'S PROPOSING AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT WILL GO THROUGH LOTS OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THAT.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS WITHIN THE COURT SYSTEM.

>> MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES OFTEN LEAD INDIVIDUALS INTO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

WE HAVE PEOPLE WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES, WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, AND THEY COMMIT CRIMES, OFTEN NONVIOLENT CRIMES, END UP IN COURT, IF WE DO NOTHING ABOUT THEIR MENTAL ILLNESS AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES THEY SERVE THEIR TIME, OFTEN FROM MISDEMEANOR OFFENSES, THEY GO BACK OUT AND THEY DO IT AGAIN AND WE'RE BACK INTO COURT.

SO THAT'S BEEN A HUGE PROBLEM.

OUR JAILS ARE EFFECTIVELY OUR MENTAL HEALTH INSTITUTIONS.

WE HAVE MORE MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE IN OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES THAN WE DO IN OUR STATE MENTAL HEALTH HOSPITALS.

AND SO WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

ONE THING WE CAN DO IS USE OUR ACCOUNTABILITY COURTS.

WE HAVE MENTAL HEALTH COURTS, DUI COURTS, DRUG COURTS THAT FOCUS AND PROVIDE RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE, NON-VIOLENT GENERALLY, WHO'VE COME INTO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TO TRY TO NOT JUST LET THEM SHUFFLE IN AND OUT BUT RATHER TREAT THEIR PROBLEMS, GIVE THEM SUPPORTS, SO THAT THEY'LL ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO LEAVE AND NOT COME BACK IN THE SYSTEM, AND THE STATISTICS SHOW THOSE COURTS LOWER RECIDIVISM RATES, SAVE A TON OF MONEY IF YOU CAN GET SOMEBODY BACK OUT INTO THE WORK FORCE RATHER THAN IN PRISON.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF ANYONE YOU'VE EVER GONE TO AN ACCOUNTABILITY COURT GRADUATION YOU REALLY SEE HOW THESE COURTS SAVE PEOPLE'S SOULS.

I MEAN, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ESTRANGED FROM THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR LIVES WERE AT THE END, YOU KNOW, ARE NOW KIND OF TURNED BACK INTO PRODUCTIVE CITIZENS.

SO THAT'S A GOOD PROGRAM.

IT'S NOT NEARLY ENOUGH, AND THAT'S WHY SPEAKER RALSTON AND THE OTHER FOLKS WORKING ON THIS ISSUE, THEY WANT TO EXPAND MENTAL HEALTH, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TREATMENT AND FACILITIES FOR PEOPLE BEFORE THEY'D EVER GET TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND AS WE SAID, JUDGES HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THIS FOR YEARS.

WE'VE RECOGNIZED THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

IT IS GREAT THAT THE SPEAKER AND OTHERS ARE MAKING IT A HUGE PRIORITY FOR THE STATE, AND IT'S NOT JUST GOOD FOR OUR STATE AND THE STATE'S ECONOMY AND THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A GOOD THING TO DO MORALLY.

>> YEAH, GEORGIA'S SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, DAVID NAMIAS.

>>> AFTER THE BREAK, REACTIONS TO HIS REMARKS FROM TWO ATTORNEYS WORKING IN GEORGIA'S COURT SYSTEM.

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GO TO CIGNA.COM TO LEARN HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL WELL BEING.

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HELPING EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THE AGRICULTURE IN OUR STATE.

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>>> WE ARE THE SOUTHERN ENVIRONMENTAL LAW CENTER.

WE TAKE ON THE TOUGHEST ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES, WE FORCE THE REMOVAL OF MORE THAN 250 MILLION TONS OF TOXIC COAL ASH, DEFEATING REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO BRING OFFSHORE DRILLING THE OUR COAST.

AND SECURING CLEAN AIR AND WATER FOR PROTECTIONS FOR COMMUNITIES ACROSS OUR REGION.

YOUR MOST POWERFUL ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENDER IS ROOTED RIGHT HERE, IN THE SOUTH.

♪♪ >>> WELCOME BACK TO "LAWMAKERS," WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TALKING ABOUT THE STATE'S JUDICIAL SYSTEM, WITH TWO LAWMAKERS, BOTH ARE PRACTICING ATTORNEYS, BARRY FLEMING OF HARLEM, AND DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE JOSH McLAREN OF SANDY SPRINGS, GENERAL COUNSEL AT EXPRESS JET AIRLINES.

WELCOME TO "LAWMAKERS," I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES THE CHIEF JUSTICE TALKED ABOUT.

DO YOU AGREE WITH HIM WHEN IT COMES TO VIRTUAL PROCEEDINGS, THAT THEY CAN AND SHOULD BE PART OF THE NEW NORMAL, AND WHAT ARE YOUR EXPERIENCES, AND I'LL START WITH YOU, REPRESENTATIVE McLAUREN?

>> THANK YOU, DONNA, IT'S GREAT TO BE ON WITH YOU.

I HAVE VERY LIMITED PERSONAL EXPERIENCE PRACTICING CRIMINAL LAW, BUT HAVE DONE THE INTERNSHIP CLINICAL ROUTE.

I'VE SEEN SOME CASES FROM THE INSIDE OF THE COURTROOM.

AND CRIMINAL LAW IN GENERAL IS A COLLABORATIVE PROCESS, MORE SO THAN PEOPLE WOULD IMAGINE.

IT TAKES PROSECUTION AND DEFENSE WORKING WITH THE JUDGE TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO RESOLVE EACH CASE.

AND SO VIRTUAL PROCEEDINGS REALLY EMPOWER EVERY SINGLE OF THOSE PARTICIPANTS TO GET TO A MORE EFFICIENT RESOLUTION OF A CASE THAT COULD BE BETTER FOR EVERYBODY.

THAT BEING SAID, I REALLY APPRECIATED THE CHIEF JUSTICE'S COMMENTS TODAY WHERE HE RECOGNIZED THAT CERTAIN CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS THAT DEFENDANTS HAVE MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO BE EXTRA CAREFUL ABOUT IMPOSING ANY VIRTUAL PROCEEDINGS ON PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ASSERT THEIR NORMAL RIGHT TO BE IN A COURTROOM.

>> YEAH, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> I DO.

I MEAN, IT'S HERE TO STAY.

WE'VE -- DIDN'T KNOW IF WE COULD DO IT, AND WE HAD TO DO IT, AND NOW WE'VE LEARNED THAT IT CAN MAKE THE LAW MORE EFFICIENT, BASICALLY, AND LESS EXPENSIVE FOR LITIGANTS, QUITE OFTEN.

IT'S HERE TO STAY AND AS JOSH MENTIONED THE BALANCE NOW IS WHAT WE'VE GOT TO FIND BETWEEN THE TWO.

>> SOME WERE KICKING AND SCREAMING INTO IT, BUT THEY'RE DOING IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT THE BACKLOG OF CASES, AND I KNOW YOU'RE IN THE COURTROOMS ALL THE TIME, SO YOUR END.

WHEN IT COMES TO BACKLOG CASES.

>> SO VERY FEW CASES GO TO A FULL JURY TRIAL, WHETHER IT BE CRIMINAL OR CIVIL.

BUT THE CERTAIN AMOUNT THAT DO GO HAVE BEEN BACKLOGGED NOW FOR THE COVID PERIOD THAT WE'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH.

THERE HAVE BEEN INNOVATIVE WAYS TO TRY TO RESOLVE CASES, MORE MEDIATIONS, MORE JUDGE TRIALS.

BUT THE CASES THAT ARE WAITING TO BE TRIED ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A JURY.

AND AS THE BASEBALL ANALOGY THAT THE CHIEF JUSTICE GAVE WAS VERY GOOD.

IT IS A PROBLEM, AND THUS THE ALLOCATION OF MONIES THAT YOU'VE HEARD, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WORK THROUGH THAT, AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASY FOR THE JUSTICE SYSTEM TO HANDLE.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT WHOLE BACKLOG.

YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE WHO -- CRIMINALS WHO ARE IN THE SYSTEM, BUT ALSO THEIR FAMILIES, AND VICTIMS WHO WANT SOME JUSTICE.

>> WELL, THERE'S THAT SAYING, JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED.

THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES HOW TO SEE THAT PHRASE.

CERTAINLY, FOR FAMILIES OF PEOPLE CHARGED OF CRIMES, I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

WE DON'T TREAT PEOPLE WHO -- PRIOR TO CONVICTION AS BEING GUILTY OF CRIMES.

AND SO UNTIL THAT POINT, I THINK IT'S THE UTMOST PRIORITY, THE MORAL PRIORITY, FOR THE SYSTEM TO RECOGNIZE THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE LANGUISH IN JAIL FOR YEARS, BEFORE THEY GET ACCESS TO A CASE.

AND SO GOING BACK TO THAT IDEA THAT PEOPLE HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO PROTECT, THE BACKLOG ISSUE IS NOT JUST AN ADMINISTRATIVE ONE, IT'S REALLY A HUMAN ONE AND A MORAL ONE FOR EVERYBODY WHO'S AFFECTED.

>> AND CERTAINLY THE CHIEF JUSTICE RECOGNIZED THAT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER ISSUE, AND THAT'S THE RISING CRIME RATE, AND HOW HE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THINGS WERE ACTUALLY SEEING MORE CASES COMING IN, BUT THEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, BECAUSE OF THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, WE SAW A CRIME WAVE BEGIN DURING COVID, AND IT'S CONTINUING, YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME I TURN ON THE MEDIA IN ATLANTA, I HEAR MORE AND MORE ABOUT LITTLE KIDS BEING SHOT, OR SOMEBODY LAYING IN A BED AND A BULLET COMING THROUGH THE WINDOW.

IT IS A PROBLEM, AND IT HAS EXACERBATED THE ISSUE WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING WITH THE LACK OF ABILITY TO GET INTO JURY TRIALS.

HOPEFULLY WITH THIS ALLOCATION OF NEW MONEY, HOPEFULLY WITH COVID, LETTING OUR SOCIETY GET BACK TO NORMAL, AS IT GOES DOWN, WE HOPE, WE'LL BE ABLE TO, AGAIN, TO DEAL WITH THAT BUT WE ONLY HAVE ONE CHOICE, AND THAT'S TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT AND THAT IS WHAT LIES AHEAD OF US NOW.

>> I WANT TO TALK TO YOU SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE MONEY HE TALKED ABOUT, THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN MONEY.

AND YOU -- HE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE WANTS COUNTIES TO START ALLOCATING SOME OF THAT MONEY TOWARD THE COURT SYSTEM.

HE MENTIONED FULTON COUNTY AND BASICALLY SAID OTHER COUNTIES AREN'T DOING IT.

YOU USED TO BE A COUNTY COMMISSIONER WITH COLUMBIA COUNTY.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?

>> I THINK FULTON COUNTY HAS A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN OTHER COUNTIES IN GEORGIA AND THEY STEPPED UP, WITH A GOOD SOLUTION, AND THAT IS TO ALLOCATE SOME OF THE FEDERAL MONEY TO HELP WITH THAT BACKLOG.

I THINK OUR METROPOLITAN AREAS WILL PROBABLY HAVE BIGGER ISSUES THAN SOME OF THE RURAL AREAS WITH THIS.

THEY ALSO HAVE MORE FEDERAL MONEY.

I THINK IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE, I KNOW MY COUNTY IS TALKING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.

COLUMBIA COUNTY IN THE SUBURBS OF AUGUSTA.

I THINK YOU'LL SEE MORE COUNTIES DO IT GOING FORWARD.

>> HE MENTIONED DOUGHERTY COUNTY AND THEIR PROBLEMS WITH CRIME AND, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN YOU'VE GOT EIGHT DEFENDANTS, AND HOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE ALL THE MONEY THAT IS INVOLVED WITH THAT, BUT THEY BEEN ALSO SOCIAL DISTANCING WITH ALL OF THAT.

I WANT TO GET IN THE OTHER ISSUE THAT'S BIG AT THE LEGISLATE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW, THE WHOLE MENTAL HEALTH PACKAGE THAT SPEAKER RALSTON IS PUSHING.

HE TALKED ABOUT THAT, AND JUSTICE NAMIAS TALKED ABOUT THE NEED, HE CALLED THE PROPOSED MENTAL HEALTH REFORMS, HE SAYS JAILS ARE EFFECTIVELY OUR MENTAL HEALTH INSTITUTIONS AND CORRECTIONS FACILITIES ARE MENTAL HEALTH HOSPITALS.

DO YOU AGREE?

>> I THINK THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT AWARENESS FROM A VERY INFLUENTIAL FIGURE IN THE STATE THE CHIEF JUSTICE THAT THE CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEM OFTEN ENDS UP BEING THE LAST STOP FOR PROBLEMS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED MUCH EARLIER IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE PROBLEMS.

THERE ARE SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF CRIME THAT WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT AS A SOCIETY ON THE FRONT END, ALMOST LIKE PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE, WHICH IS CHEAPER, RIGHT, THAN TREATING SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO TREAT ON THE BACK END.

ONE PIECE OF NUANCE I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CRIME DURING COVID IS THAT THE STATISTICS ACTUALLY DIVERGE DEPENDING WHICH TYPE OF CRIME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

IF IT'S VIOLENT CRIMES, LIKE HOMICIDES, AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS, THE KIND SHOWN ON TV.

THOSE DID GO UP IN A LOT OF PRAYS AND ACROSS THE STATE OF GEORGIA.

THIS IS ALL FBI -- OTHER TYPES OF CRIME DECREASED.

WHAT I THINK WE SEE WITH THESE DATA AND ALSO THE BACKLOG PHENOMENON IS THE IDEA THAT THE CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEM IS REALLY UNPREPARED TO DEAL WITH SOME MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES THAT, THANK GOODNESS, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE BROAD BY PARTISAN COALITION OF PEOPLE HAVE SET THEIR FOCUS ON STARTING TO ADDRESS THIS YEAR, BUT LONG TERM, WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO IS REEVALUATE OUR USE OF THE CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEM AND SEE WHETHER IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD NOT BE THIS OPTION OF FIRST RESORT FOR DEALING WITH ISSUES THAT ARE MUCH MORE PERSONAL, AND REQUIRE SUSTAINED SOCIAL INTERVENTION, AND REALLY EVEN MEDICAL CARE.

>> YEAH.

SO INSTEAD OF THEM GOING TO A HOSPITAL, THEY'RE ENDING UP IN THE JAILS AND OUR PRISONS?

>> WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF THIS PROBLEM IN GEORGIA, AND TO ME IT GOT WORSE WHEN WE CLOSED GEORGIA REGIONAL HOSPITAL IN MILLVILLE.

I GREW UP IN A AUGUSTA AREA.

WHEN -- THEY SAID, BETTER NOT DO THAT, YOU'LL END UP IN MILLVILLE.

WE WERE FORCED TO CLOSE THE MENTAL HOSPITAL, AND EVER SINCE THEN YOU HAVE SEEN A GROWING PROBLEM.

WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE CRIMINALLY INSANE, THE MENTAL ILLNESS THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH CERTAIN PEOPLE THAT GET INTO TROUBLE WITH THE LAW.

AND WE ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A BETTER WAY TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM, AND I GIVE THE SPEAKER A LOT OF CREDIT, HE HAS A HEART FOR THIS ISSUE.

HE'S BROUGHT FORTH A PACKAGE THAT IS BIPARTISAN.

AND YOU'LL SEE THE LEGISLATURE AND ACTION THINGS THIS YEAR, WHICH I THINK ARE GOING TO BEGIN TO HELP THAT PROBLEM SIGNIFICANTLY.

WE'VE ALREADY DONE SOME THINGS, THIS IS AN ACCELERATION OF SOME OF THE SUCCESSES WE'VE ALREADY HAD.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEMS, OTHER THINGS THAT WHERE THEY JUST -- THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE IS TO TAKE THEM DOWN TO THE JAIL, AND THEN THEY END UP IN OUR PRISONS.

SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT HERE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON, BOTH OF YOU.

I APPRECIATE THIS.

AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT ON LAWMAKERS.

YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AT GPB NEWS, USING THE #GPB LAWMAKERS AND DON'T FORGET TO TUNE IN TOMORROW AT 9:00 A.M. FOR POLITICAL REWIND, THE LEGISLATURE IS OFF TOMORROW.

WE'LL SEE YOU ON THURSDAY FOR LEGISLATIVE DAY 14.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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