>> ARE YOU FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA?

>> YES, SIR.

>> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE BULLDOGS, THE FOOTBALL TEAM?

>> I AM.

>> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE MASCOT?

>> I AM.

>> IS THAT MORE THAN ONE SITUATION WHERE A MASCOT NEARLY FIGHTS ANOTHER SCHOOL?

>> NO, THAT WOULD BE PURE ENTERTAINMENT.

>> THANKS, SENATOR.

WOULD YOU YIELD FOR ANOTHER QUESTION?

DIDN'T YOU REACH ACROSS THE HALL IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES?

>> I DID.

>> CAN YOU ASSURE US HERE THAT YOU ARE FULLY HOUSEBROKEN FOR THIS BILL?

>> I AM FULLY HOUSEBROKEN, YES.

>> PLAYFUL HAZING FOR THE SENATOR AS HE PRESENTS A SERIOUS BILL ABOUT DOGFIGHTING.

GOOD EVENING, WELCOME TO "LAWMAKERS" ON LEGISLATIVE DAY 19.

I AM DONNA LOWRY IN ATLANTA.

I AM ONCE AGAIN DOING THE SHOW REMOTELY BECAUSE I HAD A POSITIVE COVID-19 DIAGNOSIS.

ON THE SHOW, WE WILL TALK ABOUT A BILL TO BAN THE HERBAL SUPPLEMENT KRATOM, SOME USE IT FOR ANXIETY, BUT OTHERS SAY IT IS AN ADDICTIVE DRUG.

LAWMAKERS WHO WANT TO CLASSIFY KRATOM AS A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE WILL TELL US ABOUT HIS LEGISLATION.

>>> AND RECOGNIZING A STUDENT AS TRANSGENDER, AND PREVENTING TEACHERS FROM DISCUSSING GENDER IDENTITY WITH STUDENTS UNLESS PARENTS SIGN OFF ON IT FIRST.

WE WILL LEARN MORE ABOUT THOSE ISSUES COMING UP.

BUT FIRST, AS ALWAYS, WE BRING YOU THE LATEST ON WHAT TOOK PLACE UNDER THE GOLDSTONE TODAY.

>>> IN THE SENATE TODAY, FOUR BILLS WERE PASSED.

THEY PASSED SB 59 UNANIMOUSLY.

IMMIGRANTS INDEPENDENT LAW ENFORCEMENT STATUS TO THE GEORGIA INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE.

THE OFFICE IS TASKED WITH OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIVE POWERS OVER STATE AGENCIES.

THAT INCLUDES THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, FOR CORRUPTION, SEXUAL HARASSMENT, AND WASTE AMONG OTHER OFFENSES.

THE NEXT THREE DEALT WITH PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY, AND THOSE ANNOYING PHONE CALLS TO GET AT DINNERTIME.

SENATE BILL 47 RESTRICTS OTHER TOBACCO LIKE PRODUCTS.

>> THE SMOKE-FREE ACT THAT WOULD INCLUDE VAPING IN IT, SEVERAL TIMES IT HAS BEEN PUT IN THERE, AND IT FAILED.

SO JUST KEEPING IT A SIMPLE, ONE SUBJECT THINGS SAYING THAT IT WILL BE CONSIDERED, SMOKING IN PUBLIC PLACES UNDER THE CLEANER ACT AS ANY OTHER TOBACCO PRODUCT IS.

>> SB 47 PASSED 51-3.

UNDER ANOTHER BILL, DOGFIGHTING WOULD BE CONSIDERED A RACKETEERING OFFENSE, LINKING THE BRUTAL SPORT TO GANG AND OTHER UNDERGROUND ACTIVITIES.

>> THIS PROTECTS OUR ANIMALS WHO CAN'T PROTECT THEMSELVES, AND PREVENTS THEM FROM BEING USED AS DEVIOUS ENTERTAINMENT FOR PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO.

THIS HOUSE BILL MAKES IT PART OF THE RICO ACT, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT MORE STRINGENT TO BE ABLE TO PROSECUTE THESE PEOPLE AND MAKE A LIVING OFF THIS, ESPECIALLY THE GANGS THAT USE THIS FOR ILL GAMES.

>> Reporter: ALTHOUGH THE ISSUE IS SERIOUS, IT DIDN'T PREVENT SOME OF THE SENATORS FROM SOME PLAYFUL HAZING ON THE FRESHMAN SENATOR PRESENTING HIS FIRST BILL.

>> SENATOR, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA?

>> I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.

>> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA?

>> YES, SIR.

>> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE BULLDOGS, THE FOOTBALL TEAM?

>> I AM.

>> ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE MASCOT?

>> I AM.

>> IT HAS BEEN KNOWN ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION WHEN A MASCOT HAS GONE BY TO JUMP AND DON YEAR FIGHT ANOTHER SCHOOL.

WOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED RACKETEERING, IN THIS CASE?

>> NO, THAT WOULD BE PURE ENTERTAINMENT.

>> THANK YOU, SENATOR.

WOULD YOU YIELD FOR ANOTHER QUESTION?

>> CERTAINLY.

>> IS IT TRUE THAT YOU SERVED ACROSS THE HALL FOR THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES?

>> I DID.

>> SENATOR, CAN YOU ASSURE US THAT YOU ARE FULLY HOUSEBROKEN FOR THIS STUFF?

>> I AM FULLY HOUSEBROKEN, YES.

I YIELD.

>> WELL, WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!

SENATOR!

>> Reporter: THE BILL PASSED 47- 7.

AND FINALLY IN THE SENATE, THOSE ANNOYING TELEMARKETING PHONE CALLS THAT NEVER SEEM TO END EVEN AFTER YOU PUT THEM ON THE DO NOT CALL LIST.

SENATE BILL 73 WILL GIVE CONSUMERS THE ABILITY TO STRIKE BACK.

>> WHAT THIS BILL DOES, IS IT TELLS THE ROTARY CAR WARRANTY COMPANY THAT THEY CAN'T GET AROUND GEORGIA LAW BY CONTRACTING WITH ANOTHER COMPANY OUT OF STATE.

THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BE RECOGNIZED AS THE ENTITY MAKING THE CALL IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND WHAT PARTY LIABILITY WOULD IT SEND TO THEM?

THAT IS ALL THIS BILL DOES.

IT ALLOWS FOR A CLASS ACTION SO YOU CAN CONSOLIDATE THOSE CALLS AND BRING ONE ACTION AGAINST THEM IN BULK.

AGAIN, THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS IS TO TRY TO RETURN A LITTLE PIECE TO FAMILIES AT DINNERTIME, AND MAKE SURE THAT THE GEORGIA DO NOT CALL ACT ACTUALLY DOES.

>> >> Reporter: THE BILL PASSED WITH A UNANIMOUS VOTE OF ALL 56 SENATORS.

AND OVER IN THE HOUSE, FOR SOME CANCERS, THERE CAN BE MANY AVAILABLE TREATMENT OPTIONS.

BY TRIAL AND ERROR OF THE DIFFERENT TREATMENTS CAN TAKE A TOLL ON A PATIENT'S BODY AND WALLET.

REPRESENTATIVE SHARON COOPER PRESENTED HOUSE BILL 85 TO HELP GEORGIANS GET MORE EFFECTIVE HEALTHCARE TREATMENT AND SOME COST SAVINGS BY REQUIRING HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR BIOMARKER TESTING.

>> THE BIOMARKER IS A DIAGNOSTIC TEST.

IT IS NOT A TREATMENT.

IT GETS THE RIGHT MEDICINE TO THE PATIENT AT THE RIGHT TIME.

AND THE RIGHT TIME IS AS SOON AS THEY ARE DIAGNOSED AND HAVE A BIOMARKER TEST, THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE TO SUFFER GETTING THE WRONG MEDICATION.

WRONG, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT WILL BE AFFECTED AND IT IS ONE OF THE OLD TYPES OF TREATMENT.

BUT, THEY WILL GET THE TREATMENT THAT IS MOST EFFECTIVE FOR THEM.

>> Reporter: THAT BILL PASSED WITH OVERWHELMING SUPPORT.

>> AND THAT IS OUR CAPITAL REPORT FOR TODAY.

>>> NOW, LET'S DIG DEEPER INTO SOME OF THE LEGISLATION LAWMAKERS ARE DEBATING.

ONE OF THEM IS HOUSE BILL 181, WHICH LOOKS TO BAN THE HERBAL SUPPLEMENT, KRATOM.

JOINING US IS THE AUTHOR OF THE BILL, REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE RICK TOWNSEND.

WELCOME TO "LAWMAKERS".

>> HEY, GOOD EVENING.

>> SO, LET'S GET RIGHT INTO IT.

I SHOULD MENTION THAT YOUR BILL HAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT AND YOU TRIED TO GET A COUPLE LAWMAKERS ON THE SHOW TO TALK ABOUT IT, BUT THEY HAD SCHEDULING CONFLICTS.

BUT, THERE IS ALSO STRONG OPPOSITION TO YOUR BILL, AND WE WILL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE IN A MOMENT.

LET'S START WITH THE BASIS.

KRATOM IS AN HERBAL SUPPLEMENT, MADE FROM THE LEAVES OF A SOUTHEAST ASIAN TREE.

SO, WHAT MORE CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT IT FROM THERE?

>> RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN'T BRING IT OVER, IMPORT IT FROM OVERSEAS.

AND THIS IS YOU IS REALLY A CONSTITUENT BASED ISSUE, WHERE WE HAVE PROBLEMS DOWN IN GLENN COUNTY, WHERE I HAD ONE PARENT WHO LOST A SON WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE, WHO WAS ON KRATOM.

I HAD ANOTHER PARENT WHOSE SON WENT THROUGH THE HALFWAY HOUSE AND GOT HOOKED ON KRATOM THERE TO GET OFF OTHER DRUGS, AND WOUND UP IN A MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY AFTERWARDS FOR PSYCHOTIC BEHAVIOR.

SO, IT IS A DANGEROUS DRUG.

IT SHOULD BE OFF THE STREETS.

I BECAME CONCERNED ABOUT IT ONCE IT CAME TO MY ATTENTION.

AND AFTER ALL OF THE RESEARCH I DID.

>> SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT YOUR BILL WOULD DO, EXACTLY.

FOR KRATOM RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE CAN GET IT EASILY, APPARENTLY AT CONVENIENCE STORES, AND SOME HERBAL HEALTH STORES, THOSE KINDS OF PLACES?

>> THEY CAN, DONNA.

RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN GO TO THE LOCAL GAS STATION DOWN THE STREET, AND YOU HAVE A CHOICE OF GRABBING A KRATOM OR GRABBING A RECEIPT BAR.

SO RIGHT NOW, YOU HAVE TO BE 18 AND OVER TO GET IT.

BUT, IT IS VERY EASY TO GET AND IT IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE.

AND MULTIPLE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE COME OUT AGAINST IT, OF COURSE, INCLUDING MAYO CLINIC AND CLEVELAND CLINIC FOR VARIOUS REASONS.

IT IS NOT A SAFE DRUG.

RIGHT NOW, THE QUALITY CONTROL IS THE REAL CONCERN.

>> NOW, I KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS CLASSIFY IT AS WHAT?

A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE LIKE HEROIN AND FENTANYL, THAT IS THE ISSUE, RIGHT?

>> CORRECT.

IT WOULD BE A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE WHERE WE WOULD BE ABLE TO GET IT AT ALL.

SO, WE ARE WORKING ON THAT PROCESS NOW.

THE COMMITTEE HAD A MEETING THE OTHER DAY, YOU SHOWED CLIPS OF IT, TO TALK ABOUT IF THAT IS THE RIGHT SPOT FOR IT.

WHAT IS NICE ABOUT THIS PROCESS, IS AS WE GET IN THIS PROCESS, AT TIMES, THINGS WILL CHANGE, AT TIMES, THINGS WON'T CHANGE.

BUT, IT IS BUYER BEWARE RIGHT NOW, AND THAT IS WHAT I REALLY WANT.

THERE ARE NO SAFETY FACTORS IN PLACE.

THE LAW IS THERE FOR SAFETY FACTORS, BUT NO ONE IS FOLLOWING THE LAW, JUST HARDLY.

IT IS BUYER BEWARE.

>> OKAY.

SO, WE NOW HAVE A DEFINITION, WE KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOUR BILL.

I WANT TO GIVE THE AUDIENCE AN IDEA OF WHAT YOU AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE NON- JUDICIARY --JUDICIARY AND ON CIVIL COMMITTEE HEARD DURING THAT LENGTHY HEARING ON MONDAY.

IT WENT ON FOR A FEW HOURS.

AMONG THOSE WHO TESTIFIED WAS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE GEORGIA POISON CENTER.

SO, WE HEAR FROM THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO TALKED ABOUT LOSING LOVED ONES TO KRATOM.

ALL OF THEM, IN THIS CASE, WERE MEN.

THE FIRST PERSON IS DANA POPE, WHO IS 23-YEAR-OLD SON, ETHAN, DIED AFTER USING KRATOM IN DECEMBER OF 2021.

>> ETHAN WAS NOT A DRUG ADDICT.

WE BELIEVE HE STARTED TAKING KRATOM FOR HIS ANXIETY, OR POSSIBLY FOR ENERGY .

AND BASED ON HIS BANK RECORDS, HE HAD ONLY BEEN USING IT FOR ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE IT KILLED HIM.

WE BELIEVE HE WAS ABSOLUTELY ADDICTED, AS WE FOUND A NOTE ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER WHEN JOHN WENT TO COLLECT HIS THINGS THAT SAID, "STOP TAKING KRATOM."

THERE WERE TWO NIGHTS IN OUR HOUSE BEFORE HIS DEATH THAT IN HIS PARANOIA, AND HIS HOLLERING AT MY HUSBAND AND MYSELF, WE THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO CALL 911.

IT WAS THAT BAD, FROM KRATOM.

KRATOM KILLS.

>> PEOPLE ARE TRADING IT FOR ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER.

IT IS AN EPIDEMIC.

THIS PRODUCT --AND I'M TRYING TO KEEP MY COMPOSURE, TRYING NOT TO CRY --IT IS A LETHAL SUBSTANCE.

>> THERE IS FAR MORE RISKS THAN THERE ARE BENEFITS.

I BELIEVE THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME TYPE OF TIGHTER CONTROL.

WE EVEN TALKED ABOUT SCHEDULE ONE, BECAUSE THE DEFINITION, OBVIOUSLY, OF SCHEDULE ONE, IS NO MEDICINAL BENEFIT.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE THE SCHEDULE ONE LABEL, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO STUDIED, AND NO PROVEN MEDICINAL BENEFIT.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE WE ARE NOW WITH THE DEA SAYING THAT THERE IS NO MEDICINAL BENEFIT, AND THEREFORE, THE SCHEDULE ONE LABEL IS ONE THAT I WOULD SUPPORT.

>> REPRESENTATIVE TOWNSEND, BEFORE I TALKED TO YOU AND ASKED ABOUT WHAT THEY SAID, I SHOULD MENTION THAT DANA POPE'S FAMILY HAS FILED A WRONGFUL DEATH LAWSUIT.

THE COMPANIES AND ORGANIZATIONS CONNECTED TO THE MANUFACTURING AND SALE OF KRATOM.

YOU MENTIONED YOU FIRST LEARNED ABOUT THESE CONCERNS DOWN IN YOUR AREA.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED ALONG THE WAY, FROM FAMILIES LIKE THE ONE -- LIKE THE ONES WE HEARD FROM, AND FROM THE POISON CONTROL PEOPLE.

>> YES.

I HAVE LEARNED THERE IS A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING FOR KRATOM, THE CONSISTENCY OF IT, THE CONCENTRATE OF IT.

IT REALLY GOES BACK TO QUALITY CONTROL.

AND THAT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS IN AMERICA, IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE, LIKE IT IF YOU WANT TO GO OUT AND GET A BEER, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT THE STRENGTH IS, YOU KNOW NOT TO DRIVE IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN A BEER.

BUT, IN THIS CASE, WITH THE KRATOM, YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING WHEN YOU BUY IT.

YOU ARE NOT SURE OF THE CONCENTRATE LEVEL, YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO MIX IT WITH.

WE HAD SOME TO CONTACT US WHERE A YOUNG MAN DIDN'T DRINK, DIDN'T DO DRUGS, HE EXERCISED A LOT, BUT USED ENERGY DRINKS, AND USED THE KRATOM AND ENERGY DRINKS, AND IT KILLED HIM.

SO, I THINK THAT IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE NOW, FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD BACK HOME AND DOING RESEARCH, IS THAT THERE IS NO QUALITY CONTROL, THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY IN THE PRODUCT.

AND IF WE PUT ANYTHING IN OUR BODIES --ESPECIALLY ON A CONSISTENT BASIS --WE NEED TO KNOW --THE CONSUMER HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW --WHAT IS GOING IN THEIR BODY.

>> YEAH.

DURING THE HEARING, THOUGH, THERE WERE SEVERAL PEOPLE WHOSE VOICED STRONG OPPOSITION TO BANNING KRATOM ENTIRELY.

WE HEARD FROM PEOPLE WHO SAID THE SUPPLEMENT HELPS THEM WITH VARIOUS ISSUES.

AND RIGHT NOW, LET'S HEAR FROM A FEW OF THEM, BEGINNING WITH A FORENSIC TOXICOLOGIST FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON UNIVERSITY.

>> PEOPLE USE KRATOM FOR FATIGUE, FOR PAIN, AVOIDING USING OPIOIDS, IMPROVING WELL- BEING, REDUCING ANXIETY INCLUDING PTSD, THAT WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER BY VETERANS, TO ELIMINATE OPIOID USE, FOR ANALGESIA, AND TO SELF MANAGE OPIOID WITHDRAWAL, AND USE DISORDER BY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD.

THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY ONE THIRD OF USERS OF KRATOM, WELL DOCUMENTED IN NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL SURVEYS ARE USING IT TO HELP REDUCE THEIR OPIOID USE.

ADMIRAL GERRARD, WHO WAS THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, SAID HE IS AFRAID WE WILL ESCALATE THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC WITH MANY MORE DEATHS FROM OPIOIDS IF WE SCHEDULE KRATOM.

>> IF YOU WERE TO PASS THIS BILL, YOU WILL CRIMINALIZE MORE THAN 200,000 GEORGIANS.

WE DON'T NEED TO CRIMINALIZE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING WITH PAIN MANAGEMENT AND OPIOID ADDICTIONS.

>> MAKING KRATOM A SCHEDULE ONE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE WILL SUBJECT GOOD, HARD-WORKING PEOPLE, ELDERLY PEOPLE, VETERANS, MY OWN MOTHER, TO BEING CRIMINALIZED.

THEY WILL BE PUT INTO THE JAIL SYSTEM, WHICH IS ALREADY OVERFLOWING AND OUR COURTS ARE ALREADY BACKLOGGED FROM THE JUDICIAL EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN FROM COVID.

IT IS JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK THE BILL, AS IT STANDS, SHOULD BE AMENDED, NOT REPEALED.

>> SO, REPRESENTATIVE TOWNSEND, I WONDER YOUR REACTION TO SOME OF THAT TESTIMONY.

PRETTY COMPELLING, ALSO.

>> I UNDERSTAND, DONNA.

AND THE FIRST PART, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, ANYTIME YOU HAVE WITNESSES, YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND THE DEPTH OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

YOU ALSO HAVE TO ASK THE FIRST QUESTION IS, ARE YOU GETTING PAID TO TESTIFY, OR ARE YOU PART OF THE COMPANY?

AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE DID THAT YESTERDAY, NOT EVERYBODY, BUT MOST PEOPLE DID.

JUST SO YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING LIKE YOU DO IN A COURT CASE, IF SOMEONE IS GETTING PAID TO TESTIFY OR STUDY.

YOU FEEL BAD FOR THE ONES WHO ARE ON KRATOM, IT IS WORKING FOR THEM.

AND I AM GLAD IT IS WORKING FOR THEM.

ONE TO TESTIFY.

YOU HAD A FEW PEOPLE THERE YESTERDAY WHO TESTIFIED THAT THERE IS A BENEFIT TO IT.

LUCKILY, THEY PROBABLY FOUND SOMETHING TO WEAR THEY CAN ACTUALLY FIND A CERTAIN PRODUCT WITH CERTAIN DOSAGE, AND NOT MIX IT WITH CERTAIN THINGS TO HELP THEM OUT.

SO, FOR THEM, THAT IS GOOD.

BUT, THAT IS NOT THE NORMAL -- I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE NORM.

I DON'T THINK MOST PEOPLE -- WHAT YOU ARE ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT IS, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST FIRST STARTING TO TRY KRATOM, NOT KNOWING WHICH BRAND TO GET, WHICH SUBSTANCE TO GET, DO YOU GET THE LIQUID, DO YOU GET THE POWDER FORM, DO YOU TRY TO VAPED?

CAN YOU TAKE ENERGY DRINKS?

THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT IS WHAT YOU WORRY ABOUT.

ALSO, SOMEONE CONTACTED ME EARLIER TODAY, AND THEY WERE TELLING ME ABOUT HOW THEIR SON --AND THE SON DIED, UNFORTUNATELY -- BUT, THE REHAB CENTER DIDN'T REALIZE YOU COULDN'T TAKE THE METHADONE AND THE KRATOM TOGETHER.

THE SON DIDN'T MAKE IT.

SO, I THINK IT IS, AGAIN, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT, ACHY HANDLING OF THE QUALITY CONTROL AND BUYER BEWARE.

BUT, AGAIN, I CALL IT THE WILD, WILD WEST.

DR. WROTE AND CALLED IT RUSSIAN ROULETTE.

>> HE DID.

HE CALLED IT THAT.

SOME STATES HAVE BANNED IT, BUT OTHERS HAVE ENACTED LAWS TO PUT WARNING LABELS ON THE PRODUCT.

IS THAT A CONSIDERATION, REALLY?

>> WELL, THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT FIVE YEARS AGO, AND THEY HAVEN'T ADHERE TO THEIR OWN STANDARDS.

THEY HAVEN'T ADHERED TO --THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW THERE ARE CERTAIN MANUFACTURERS AND I THINK ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO TESTIFIED SHOWED WHERE THE LABELS WEREN'T ON THOSE A.K.A.

APPROVED BOTTLES, AS WELL.

SO, I THINK THEY HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO WHATEVER THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO, FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES, FOLLOW THE LAW, BUT THEY HAVEN'T DONE IT.

RIGHT NOW, THAT IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA, IT IS ONLY A MISDEMEANOR IF YOU DON'T DO IT PROPERLY.

>> SO, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT WE WILL KEEP UP WITH THIS.

AND I JUST WANT TO WRITE RESENTED TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON THIS SHOW.

>> I APPRECIATE YOU COVERING THIS.

AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS IS A CONSTITUENT BASED ISSUE.

AND I THINK AS LAWMAKERS, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DO, LISTEN TO OUR PEOPLE BACK HOME.

I WAS REALLY PROUD TO TRY TO HELP OUT.

>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING THAT.

LIKE I SAID, WE WILL LET OUR VIEWERS KNOW WHAT HAPPENS DOWN THE LINE.

THANKS, AGAIN.

>>> COMING UP, WE WILL LOOK AT A BILL THAT WILL RESTRICT WHAT EDUCATORS CAN SAY TO TRANSGENDER STUDENTS.

>> "LAWMAKERS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY GEORGIA FARM BUREAU.

WITH OVER 80 YEARS OF HELPING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF AGRICULTURE IN OUR STATE.

AFTER ALL, AGRICULTURE IS GEORGIA'S NUMBER ONE INDUSTRY.

FOOD AND FIBER PRODUCTION REPRESENTS OVER 74 BILLION IN OUTPUT OF GEORGIA'S STRONG ECONOMY.

THE GEORGIA FARM BUREAU LEGISLATIVE TEAM WORKS TO REDUCE ACROSS GEORGIA IN THE STATE CAPITAL DURING THE SESSION AND YEAR-ROUND.

GEORGIA FARM BUREAU --THE VOICE OF GEORGIA FARMERS.

>>> WELCOME BACK TO "LAWMAKERS", I AM DONNA LOWRY.

WE ARE GOING TO TALK NOW ABOUT A COUPLE OF BILLS INTRODUCED IN RECENT DAYS.

THIS BILL WITH TRANSGENDER MINORS.

ONE OF THEM, SENATE BILL 88, AUTHORED BY SENATOR CARDIN'S HONORS, WITH 10 COSPONSORS, WOULD PREVENT A SCHOOL FROM RECOGNIZING A CHILD WHO IS TRANSGENDER, UNLESS THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE OF GENDER ON THE CHILD'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

THAT REQUEST TO THAT SCHOOL TO CHANGE THE STUDENTS GENDER MUST BE IN WRITING, AND WITH A CONSENT FORM SIGNED BY ALL OF THE CHILD'S PARENTS OR LEGAL GUARDIANS.

IT ALSO DOES NOT ALLOW FOR SOMEONE WHO IS INSTRUCTING, EDUCATING, OR TRAINING A CHILD TO BECOME "DRESSED IN A SEXUALLY PROVOCATIVE MANNER."

SENATE BILL 141 IS LEGISLATION INTRODUCED BY REPUBLICAN SENATOR CLINT DIXON AND SIGNED BY A DOZEN OTHER SENATORS.

IT WOULD PREVENT HEALTH PROVIDERS FROM PERFORMING GENDER ALTERING OPERATIONS OR PROVIDING HORMONAL TREATMENT TO MINORS.

WE TRIED OUR BEST TO GET THE AUTHORS OF BOTH THE BILLS ON THE SHOW TONIGHT, BUT WE WERE UNABLE TO DO SO BECAUSE OF SCHEDULING CONFLICTS.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO REACH OUT AND HOPE TO HAVE THEM JOIN US AT A LATER DATE.

IN THE STUDIO TO TALK IN OPPOSITION OF THE BILL, IS SENATOR JIM JACKSON OF ATLANTA.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON "LAWMAKERS".

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, IT IS GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> SO, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT YOU ARE THE FIRST OPEN THE LGBTQ MEMBER OF THE GEORGIA SENATE.

SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT EACH OF THESE BILLS SEPARATELY.

BEGINNING WITH YOUR OBJECTIONS TO SB 88, WHICH APPLY TO CHILDREN UNDER 16 YEARS OLD.

TELL US ABOUT IT.

>> SO, THIS BILL BASICALLY SAYS THAT IF YOU ARE STANDING IN THE PLACE OF A PARENT, SO, THAT IS TEACHERS --WHAT YOU HIGHLIGHTED REALLY WONDERFULLY --BUT THAT IS ALSO CAMP COUNSELORS, YOUTH MINISTERS, ANYBODY WHO IS TYPICALLY A TRUSTED ADULT IN A CHILD'S LIFE.

IF YOU ARE A TRUSTED ADULT IN THEIR LIFE, AND A CHILD WANTS TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION, THAT THEY ARE STRUGGLING WITH ISSUES OF GENDER, THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU COULD HAVE THAT CONVERSATION IS TO WRITE AND ASK THE PARENT FOR PERMISSION FOR THAT.

AND THE REASON WHY THAT IS PROBLEMATIC IS WE STILL LIVE IN A STATE WHERE NOT EVERYBODY'S PARENT IS GOING TO BE OPEN TO THAT CONVERSATION.

I HAVE HEARD SO MANY HORROR STORIES OF CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT OF THEIR HOMES BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY SAID TO THE PARENTS, I MIGHT BE , OR I AM TRANS-.

AND WE HEARD OTHER HORROR STORIES OF PEOPLE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE LITERALLY TRIED TO BEAT THE GAY, OR THE TRANS OUT OF THEM.

SO, IT IS JUST NOT SAFE FOREVER CHILD TO TELL THEIR PARENTS ABOUT THEIR STRUGGLES AROUND IDENTITY ISSUES.

>> AND I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT THIS INCLUDES BEYOND PUBLIC SCHOOLS, IT REPRESENTS PRIVATE SCHOOLS, IN ADDITION TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND, " INCLUDING CHARTER SCHOOLS, SOCIAL SERVICES AGENCIES, PUBLIC LIBRARIES, CAMP, OR SIMILAR FACILITIES AND PROGRAMS."

SO, THE SCOPE OF IT IS QUITE LARGE, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I AM A PASTOR, AND I AM QUITE CLEAR THAT THERE ARE MANY TIMES, PARTICULARLY OF A YOUTH MINISTER, WHICH IS WHERE WE STAND OF LOCUS PRINTERS, WHICH IS WHAT THE BILL SAYS, SPECIFICALLY.

SO, WE STAND IN THE PLACE OF A PARENT WHENEVER WE TAKE KIDS ON A YOUTH TRIP, A MISSION TRIP.

SO, IT WOULD ALSO ISOLATE THE LANGUAGE OF A YOUTH MINISTER OR PASTOR, AS WELL.

IT IS VERY BROAD IN SCOPE, IT REALLY DOES RESULT IN CHILDREN NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE A TRUSTED ADULT THAT THEY CAN GO TO IN CONFIDENCE TO TALK ABOUT WHATEVER THEY MAY BE STRUGGLING WITH AS IT RELATES TO GENDER AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

>> NOW, I KNOW WHAT WE HAVE HAD IN THE PAST --ESPECIALLY LAST YEAR --WHERE WE HAD LEGISLATION THAT DEALT WITH TELLING TEACHERS WHAT THEY COULD OR COULD NOT TEACH WHEN IT CAME TO CERTAIN SUBJECTS.

WILL THIS MEAN THAT EDUCATORS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE MORE CAREFUL ON HOW THEY DISCUSS GENDER ISSUES?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY MEANS THAT.

I ASKED THE WRITER OF THE BILL I SAID, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT GENDER WITHOUT PERMISSION, THIS MEANS THAT YOU CAN'T ASK CHILDREN TO DECIDE BETWEEN BOYS AND GIRLS FOR A GAME?

WHAT IF YOU HAVE A CHILD WHO IS KIND OF AMBIGUOUS, RIGHT?

WE HAVE SEEN THE 5-YEAR-OLD WHO HAS LONG HAIR AND YOU ARE NOT QUITE SURE IF THEY ARE A BOY OR A GIRL.

HIS BILL MEANS THAT WE CANNOT ASK FOR CLARITY, RIGHT?

WE CANNOT ASK THAT CHILD, HEY, WHAT PRONOUNS DO YOU USE?

OR, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.

SO, IT RAISES ALL KINDS OF COMPLICATIONS, JUST BECAUSE IT IS NOT PARTICULARLY WELL- WRITTEN.

AND I WANT TO BE HONEST, I AM VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THE BILLS AUTHOR, AND I THINK THAT HE IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO RESPOND TO SOME CONCERNS FROM TEACHERS WHO ARE COMING TO HIM AND SAYING, LISTEN, WE ARE NOT COMFORTABLE TALKING TO STUDENTS ABOUT GENDER AND SEXUALITY.

SO, PLEASE HELP US WITH THAT.

SO, I AM SYMPATHETIC TO THAT.

BUT, THIS BILL, SB 88, DOESN'T QUITE GET US THERE.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS, THEN?

>> RIGHT.

SO, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SAY THAT MANDATORY REPORTING --SO, EVERY TEACHER IS A MANDATORY REPORTER --MANDATORY REPORTING MEANS THAT IF A STUDENT COMES TO YOU AND SAYS, HEY, I AM BEING HURT AT HOME, OFTEN, THE TEACHER HAS TO REPORT NOT TO THE PARENT, RIGHT?

SO, INCEST IS A PROBLEM IN OUR STATE.

SO, IF A STUDENT COMES TO A TEACHER AND SAYS, HEY, I AM HAVING SOME INSIST PROBLEMS IN MY HOME, RIGHT NOW, THE BILL WOULD SAY THAT THE TEACHER WOULD HAVE TO NOTIFY THE PARENTS ABOUT THAT.

BUT, MANDATORY REPORTING LAWS SAY, NO, YOU CALL ME BACK.

SO, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THIS BILL SAYS THAT MANDATORY REPORTING IS THE FIRST AND FOREMOST, THE GOVERNING LAW THAT WE WILL RESPOND TO.

AND I THINK WE ALSO JUST NEED TO EMPOWER OUR TEACHERS TO KNOW THAT IF YOU DON'T FEEL CREDIBLE HAVING THAT CONVERSATION WITH STUDENTS, THEN YOU CAN SEND THEM TO A COUNSELOR.

THAT THERE ARE OTHER TRUSTED ADULTS THAT YOU CAN USE.

WE ARE NOT FORCING ANY TEACHER IN THIS STATE TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE, OR TO NOT TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE.

I THINK TEACHERS JUST NEED TO FEEL EMPOWERED TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO A CHILD, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE THAT YOU TRUST ME WITH THIS, BUT I AM NOT COMFORTABLE TALKING TO YOU.

LET ME RECOMMEND SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAN.

>> OKAY.

WELL, LET'S PUSH NOW TO SENATE BILL 141, AND YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THAT.

IN PARTICULAR, IT DEALS WITH THINGS SUCH AS HORMONAL TREATMENTS, OR EVEN CROSS HORMONES, HORMONAL TREATMENTS THAT STUDENTS MIGHT HAVE, I'M SORRY, THAT YOUNG PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE.

TELL ME ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE RISKS?

>> YEAH, SO, MY CONCERN WITH THIS BILL IS THAT I AM OKAY WITH US BANNING SURGERIES ON MINORS.

I MEAN, THAT MAKES SENSE, TOO.

AND THAT IS NOT REALLY HAPPENING IN GEORGIA ALREADY.

WE ARE TOTALLY WILLING TO STAY AND GET ALONG WITH LIKE, LET'S MAKE SURE CHILDREN ARE 18, MAKE SURE THEY ARE FULL ADULTS BEFORE THEY HAVE ANY KIND OF SURGERY.

HOWEVER, BANNING THE HORMONES --SPECIFICALLY, IT IS A PUBERTY BLOCKER.

AND WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT CHILDREN WHO ARE HAVING GENDER IDENTITY STRUGGLES AND BODY DYSPHORIA, IS THAT STOPPING PUBERTY BEFORE THEY BEGAN TO HAVE BREASTS THAT EMERGE, OR ANY OF THE SYMPTOMS THAT COME WITH PUBERTY, STOPPING THOSE IS ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD FOR THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.

FOR ME, PUBERTY BLOCKERS ARE LIFE-SAVING DRUGS FOR TRANS- CHILDREN WHO ARE ALREADY AT A HIGHER RISK OF COMMITTING SUICIDE.

SO, WHEN WE DENIED THEM THAT MEDICAL OPPORTUNITY, TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, PUBERTY STOPPED WHILE THEY ARE SORT OF SORTING THINGS OUT, FIGURING THINGS OUT, IF WE DENIED THEM THAT LIFE-SAVING DRUG, THEN WE PUT OUR KIDS AT RISK OF SELF-HARM.

>> YEAH.

AND, AGAIN, FOR YOU, THIS IS ALSO A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT IS VERY MUCH, FUNDAMENTALLY, A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.

RIGHT?

WE WANT CHILDREN TO UNDERSTAND THEIR IDENTITIES TO BE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY WERE ASSIGNED AT BIRTH, TO FEEL COMFORTABLE EXPRESSING THAT.

AND TO LIVE IN TO THAT WITH NEW NAMES.

AND ALSO, HAVING SOME CONTROL OVER HOW THEIR BODY RESPONDS.

THE FACT IS, WITH A PUBERTY BLOCKER, IF THE CHILD COMES TO A CONCLUSION THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT WHAT I WANT, THEY CAN STOP TAKING THAT MEDICATION AND GO THROUGH THE TRADITIONAL PUBERTY PROCESS.

BUT, WE KNOW THAT WHEN A CHILD LOOKS IN THE MIRROR, AND IF THE IMAGE THAT REFLECTS BACK TO THEM DOESN'T MATCH THE GENDER THAT THEY FEEL IN ON THE INSIDE, THAT CAN LEAD TO SERIOUS AMOUNT OF DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, WITHDRAW.

AND SOMETIMES, SUICIDE.

>> OKAY, THANKS SO MUCH FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

I'M SORRY, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ENDED WITH THAT.

BUT, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME WITH ME.

THAT DOES IT FOR "LAWMAKERS" TODAY.

WE WILL BE BACK FOR OUR NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION TOMORROW, FOR DAY 20.

GOOD NIGHT.