>>> ON THE ADOPTION OF THE RES LUG, THE YEAS ARE 33.

THE NAYS ARE 14.

THIS RESOLUTION HAS FAILED TO RECEIVE THE REQUISITE TWO THIRDS CONSTITUTIONAL MAJORITY AND THEREFORE IS LOST.

>> IN THE GEORGIA SENATE, A RESOLUTION FAILED THAT WOULD HAVE CLARIFIED ONLY CITIZENS OF THE U.S. HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN ELECTIONS.

GOOD EVENING.

I'M DONNA LOWRY.

WELCOME TO "LAWMAKERS" ON DAY FIVE OF THIS 2022 LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

WE'LL TELL YOU WHY THE CITY OF ATLANTA'S NEW MAYOR VISITED BOTH CHAMBERS AND ONE OF THEM HE DID SOMETHING A BIT UNUSUAL.

ALSO IN THE SHOW, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE PUSH FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY LEGISLATION.

GOVERNOR BRIAN KEMP IS PUSHING TO DO AWAY WITH OBTAINING PERMITS TO CARRY A HANDGUN IN PUBLIC SAYING GEORGIANS SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.

APONNLTS SAY MAKING GUNS EASIER TO CARRY WILL NOT REDUCE CRIME AND COULD LEAD TO AN INCREASE IN GUN VIOLENCE.

WE'LL HEAR FROM LAWMAKERS WHO OPPOSE AND SUPPORT THE BILL, INCLUDING THE LEADER OF THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION.

BUT FIRST, AS ALWAYS, WE HEAD TO THE GOLD DOME FOR A WRAP-UP OF WHAT TOOK PLACE THERE TODAY FROM CAPITOL CORRESPONDENT BRENDA WATERS AND BRENDA, THEY RETURNED FROM A WEEK OFF FROM THE BUDGET HEARINGS AND GOT RIGHT DOWN TO BUSINESS, DIDN'T THEY?

>> THEY WERE READY TO GO THIS MORNING.

AND IT WAS AN EARLY START THIS MONDAY MORNING, BEGINNING WITH BREAKFAST IN THE GRAND BALLROOM AT THE DOWNTOWN HILTON.

IT WAS THE ANNUAL CITY'S UNITED SUMMIT BREAKFAST, A BIT OF NETWORKING BETWEEN LOCAL LEADERS AND LEGISLATORS.

THE BALLROOM WAS PACKED WITH MAYORS FROM JUST ABOUT EVERY CITY IN THE STATE.

COUNCIL MEMBERS, CITY STAFF, AND OTHERS.

GOVERNOR KEMP, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DUNCAN, SPEAK OF THE HOUSE RAHALSTON, AND ATLANTA MAYOR DICKENS TOOK TO THE PODIUM.

AT THE TOP OF THE LIST OF CONCERNS, THE UPTICK OF CRIME.

BUSY DAY FOR THE MAYOR.

HE WAS INVITED TO SPEAK BEFORE THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE.

IN THE HOUSE CHAMBER, HE WAS GIVEN THE RARE HONOR OF WALKING DOWN THE CENTER AISLE.

>> THAT IS AN HONOR TO BE ABLE TO WALK DOWN THE CENTER AISLE TOO, GET A STANDING OVATION, AND TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE MEMBERS, THE BODY FROM THE SPEAKER'S DESK.

>> THE MAYOR SAYS THERE ARE ONLY 400 STEPS FROM CITY HALL TO THE STATE CAPITOL, AND HE HAS MADE THAT WALK FOUR TIMES, SAYING HE WANTS LEGISLATORS TO KNOW HE IS READY TO ROLL UP HIS SLEEVES AND WORK TOGETHER.

AND OF COURSE, THE SUBJECT OF BUCKHEAD CAME UP.

HE DOESN'T WANT IT TO BECOME AN INDEPENDENT CITY.

>> I'M WORKING HARD EVERY SINGLE DAY TO MAKE SURE THAT BUCKHEAD STAYS IN ATLANTA BY MAKING SURE THAT BUCKHEAD RESIDENTS SEE THE HARD WORK WE'RE PUTTING IN AND SEE THE RESULTS ON THE GROUND.

>> IN THE SENATE, A PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE STATE CONSTITUTION BANNING NONCITIZENS FROM VOTING FAILED TO REACH THE REQUIRED TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY.

WHILE STATE LAW ALREADY PROHIBITS NONCITIZENS FROM VOTING, REPUBLICANS WANT A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO PREVENT FUTURE ASSEMBLIES FROM CHANGING THE CURRENT LAW.

>> ISN'T IT TRUE THAT WE SEE A MOVEMENT AROUND THIS COUNTRY, ACTUALLY, FOR NONCITIZENSHIP VOTING IN OTHER STATES?

>> THAT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE AND WAS THE CASE HERE IN GEORGIA IN 2016 IN THE COMMUNITY OF CLARKSTON, GEORGIA.

>> ISN'T IT TRUE WE HAVE SEEN STATE-WIDE CANDIDATES EVEN IN GEORGIA SAYING THEY WOULD NOT OPPOSE NONCITIZENS VOTING?

>> WE HAVE SEEN A WINK AND A NOD AT THE VERY LEAST.

>> DOESN'T THE EXISTING LANGUAGE SAY YOU HAVE TO BE A RESIDENT OF GEORGIA?

>> IN GEORGIA CODE.

IT DOES NOT SAY THAT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SAY IN THE CONSTITUTION.

WE'RE GOING TO SAY ONLY INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE CITIZENS WOULD BE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

WE'RE GOING TO EXCLUDE THOSE WHO ARE NOT CITIZENS AND RESIDENTS OF GEORGIA.

>> BUT DEMOCRATS SAY THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT WAS MORE ABOUT POLITICS.

NOT KEEPING ELECTIONS SAFE.

>> THE INTENTION OF THIS LEGISLATION MAY BE TO INCITE A PARTICULAR BASE IN THIS STATE TO TRY AND GIN UP SUPPORT FOR THEIR OWN ELECTIONS.

PERHAPS THERE'S EVEN A LINE SOMEWHERE ON THEIR CAMPAIGN MATERIAL THAT SPEAKS TO THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

BUT I WOULD SAY TO YOU THAT GEORGIA DESERVES BETTER.

THIS STATE DESERVES BETTER THAN PETTY POLITICS TO TRY AND INCITE THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY THAT MAY NOT BE AS WELL INFORMED AS WE ARE ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

>> THE VOTE ON SENATE RESOLUTION 363 FAILED, 33-14.

>>> WE END THE CAPITOL REPORT TONIGHT WITH SAD NEWS.

REPRESENTATIVE CALVIN SMIERY, KNOWN AS THE DEAN OF THE HOUSE, RECENTLY LOST HIS DAUGHTER, THERESA ROUNDTREE, SHE WAS 55 YEARS OLD.

>> THANK YOU.

FROM THE ROUNDTREE, MITCHELL, AND SMIREY FAMILIES ON THE LOSS OF MY DAUGHTER.

ONE OF THE FIRST GOALS I HAD ON CHRISTMAS EVE WAS FROM SPEAKER RAHALSTON, AND I WAS SO THRILLED TO HEAR FROM HIM AND HEAR FROM SO MANY OF YOU.

I WANT TO THANK THE MINORITY CAUCUS AND THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS.

>> THE REPRESENTATIVE AND HIS FAMILY ARE CERTAINLY IN OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS TONIGHT.

DONNA, BACK TO YOU.

>> THANK YOU, BRENDA.

THEY CERTAINLY ARE.

>> WE'RE GOING TO SPEND THE SHOW TALKING ABOUT AN ISSUE WE WILL SEE HEAVILY DEBATED DURING THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY LEGISLATION.

CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY IS SOMEWHAT BROAD, BUT AT ITS CORE, IT FOCUSES ON THE RIGHTS GIVEN BY THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO BEAR ARMS.

RIGHT NOW, GEORGIAENS NEED A LICENSE TO CARRY A HANDGUN IN PUBLIC.

WE'LL HEAR FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE, BEGINNING IN THIS SEGMENT WITH THOSE WHO FAVOR DOING AWAY WITH PERMITS.

I SPOKE FIRST WITH SENATOR JEFF MULLIS, AND I ASKED HIM WHY HE FAVORS CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY AND WHY PUSH FOR IT NOW.

>> MY DISTRICT IS A STRONG SECOND AMENDMENT DISTRICT.

AND SO AM I.

AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT GIVES US THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

AND I ACTUALLY THINK THAT THE CONSTITUTION ALREADY GIVES YOU THAT, BUT MANY LAWMAKERS DON'T, SO WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT CLEAR WITH A CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY THAT YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

AND TODAY IN MY OPINION, WITH THE COUNTRY AND ESPECIALLY ATLANTA AND EVEN BUCKHEAD, THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY SHOOTINGS AND SO FORTH, AND TOO MANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES.

YOU SAY, WELL, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO EXPAND THE GUN RIGHTS LAW?

WELL, CRIMINALS ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE LAW BECAUSE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS IS THE ONLY ONE THAT A LAW ACTUALLY GOVERNS.

THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT IS NOT GOING TO CARE ABOUT THE LAW.

THEY'RE GOING TO GET THEIR GUNS SOMEWHERE.

>> SO HOW DO YOU SEE IT REDUCING CRIME?

>> I BELIEVE ESPECIALLY WITH COVID AND THE LACK OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ABILITY, BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND ESPECIALLY IN ATLANTA, THAT'S BEEN THEIR LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN ANTI-LAW ENFORCEMENT, IT GIVES PEOPLE A CLEAR CHOICE IF THEY WANT A GUN TO PROTECT, A FIREARM TO PROTECT THEIR FAMILY THEMSELVES OR THEIR PROPERTY, THEN THEY MAY HAVE TO DO IT ON THEIR OWN IF THEY CAN'T GET THE LAW ENFORCEMENT TO RESPOND.

NOT BECAUSE OF THEM, IT'S JUST BECAUSE OF LACK OF FUNDING AND LACK OF SUPPORT FROM THEIR LEADERSHIP.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT LAW ENFORCEMENT USES THE PERMITS FOR SOMETIMES.

AND THAT IS TRACKING DOWN CRIMINALS THROUGH THEIR GUNS.

WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

WITH CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY WITHOUT A PERMIT?

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION.

I DON'T REALLY BELIEVE, AGAIN, THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT WOULD HAVE ANY DOCTRINE THAT SHOWS WHO THE GUN COMES FROM.

I BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE MEANS TO GET THE GUNS ON THE STREET OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

AGAIN, THIS LAW WOULD ONLY GOVERN LAW -- EXCUSE ME, THE LEGAL ELEMENT OR PEOPLE WHO ARE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

>> WHAT ABOUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE?

FOR THINGS PEOPLE WHO ARE GENERALLY LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS BUT SOMETIMES THINGS HAPPEN.

>> THINGS GO WRONG AT HOME SOMETIME, THAT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE.

ANY WEAPON INCLUDING A FRYING PAN COULD BE A LETHAL WEAPON.

I UNDERSTAND THE GUN ELEMENT.

EVERYONE SHOULD KEEP THEIR FIREARMS IN A SAFE PLACE, AWAY FROM CHILDREN AND SO FORTH, BUT THIS REALLY DOESN'T RESPOND TO THAT.

THIS IS JUST TO REMOVE ALL THE BLOCKS FOR LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS TO HAVE FIREARMS IN GEORGIA.

>> ANOTHER CRITICISM IS IT TAKES AWAY DOING CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S A BIGGER PROBLEM WITH HIPAA AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE MENTAL ILLNESSES IN OBTAINING A WEAPON, BUT THAT'S A BIGGER DEBATE, A NATIONAL DEBATE.

UNTIL THAT IS SOMEWHAT TAKEN CARE OF OR AT LEAST DEBATED, I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST PROBLEM.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

IS THERE A WAY OF PUTTING SOMETHING IN THE BILL?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN.

THE REASON I SAY THAT, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM.

HIPAA REQUIRES YOU CAN'T TELL YOU'RE WAITING ON -- IF ONE OF YOUR PATIENTS HAS A MENTAL ILLNESS.

HOW DO WE TELL LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT?

CURRENTLY THAT'S AGAINST THE LAW, BUT THAT'S A NATIONAL LAW, A UNITED STATES LAW, SO THAT'S A NEXT DEBATE.

I THINK THAT'S THE KEY TO ALL OF THE PROBLEMS OF GUN OWNERS.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENT, IT'S NOT THE CAR'S FAULT.

IT'S THE PERSON DRIVING THE CAR.

IF YOU -- IF SOMEBODY SHOOTS AN INDIVIDUAL, IT'S NOT THE GUN'S FAULT.

IT'S THE PERSON BEHIND THE GUN.

ARE THEY CRIMINAL, DO THEY HAVE MENTAL ISSUES?

THAT'S THE BASIS OF OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM.

>> HAVE YOU LOOKED INTO SOME OF THE STATES LIKE TEXAS WHO PASSED THIS?

>> NO, I HAVEN'T.

>> I WONDERED IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW THEY'RE DOING.

>> I'M HOPING WITH OUR DEBATE, WITH THE PROCESS, THAT WE HAVE THAT.

WE HAVE THOSE STATISTICS THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING THE LAW PERFECTLY.

>> IS PART OF THE ISSUE THAT RIGHT NOW, ESPECIALLY DURING THE PANDEMIC, WE HAVE SEEN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE BUYING GUNS INCREASE?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE OF THAT AND OF COURSE THE ATMOSPHERE AROUND THE ATLANTA COMMUNITY WITH ALL THE SHOOTINGS.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL UNSAFE AND THEY WANT TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, THEIR FAMILIES, AND THEIR PROPERTY.

>> HOW ABOUT STATE-WIDE?

>> IN MY AREA, WE'RE ALL PACKING SO WE DON'T FEEL UNSAFE.

IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT FEELING.

FOR EXAMPLE, MY SON WAS HUNTING THIS WEEKEND WITH HIS FRIENDS, LEGALLY, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S A WAY OF LIFE IN MANY PARTS OF RURAL GEORGIA AND RURAL AMERICA.

SO WE FEEL SAFE.

IT'S THE PEOPLE IN THE INNER CITIES, THERE'S A BIG DEBATE.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT PEOPLE IF THEY HAVE TO DO IT THEMSELVES.

BUT HOPEFULLY IT'S WITHIN THE LAW.

>> I WANT TO THANK SENATOR MULLIS FOR TALKING WITH ME.

A NATIONAL FIREARMS SURVEY CONDUCTED BY SENTIMENT AND SUMMARIZED BY GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY'S McDONA SCHOOL OF BUSINESS FOUND THAT ABOUT 32% OF ADULTS OVER 18 OWN FIREARMS OR MORE THAN 81 MILLION AMERICANS.

IT ALSO FOUND GUN OWNERS ARE PRETTY DIVERSE, NEARLY 58% MALE, ABOUT 42% FEMALE.

FEMALES OWN GUNS, AND AS FOR FIREARM OWNERS, NATIONWIDE, HERE'S MORE OF THE DEMOGRAPHIC BREAKDOWN FROM THE SURVEY ABOUT 34% WHITE, 28% HISPANIC, 25% BLACK, AND 19% ASIAN.

AND ONE OF THE ORGANIZATIONS IN FAVOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY IS A NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION.

IT HAS ABOUT 40,000 MEMBERS AND ABOUT 100 CHAPTERS.

THE ORGANIZATION'S SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT DOUGLAS JEFFERSON LIVES IN ATLANTA, AND I SPOKE WITH HIM VIA ZOOM EARLIER.

>> THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION IS FOCUSED ON SECOND AMENDMENT IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

WE FOCUS ON TRAINING, WE FOCUS ON SAFETY, AND WE FOCUS ON RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP.

WE BELIEVE THAT THE GUN CONTROL MEASURES THAT WERE CREATED THAT CAME ABOUT PRIMARILY AT THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR THROUGH RECONSTRUCTION AND INTO THE JIM CROW PERIOD, THOSE LAWS WERE CREATED TO DENY AFRICAN AMERICANS THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

SO IF WE LOOK AT THOSE JIM CROW LAWS, JUST LIKE THERE WERE LAWS TO BAN AFRICAN AMERICANS FROM VOTING, THERE WERE LAWS TO BAN AFRICAN AMERICANS FROM BEARING ARMS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE VIOLENCE THAT CAME OUT OF THAT PERIOD DIRECTED AT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, YOU COULD SEE WHY THEY WOULD WANT TO DENY BOTH OF THOSE RIGHTS.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, YOU DON'T HAVE SAY IN THE GOVERNANCE OF THE COMMUNITY.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, THAT MAKES YOU AND YOUR COMMUNITY VULNERABLE TO VIOLENCE ENACTED AGAINST YOU BY BOTH PUBLIC FORCES LIKE THE STATE AND PRIVATE FORCES SUCH AS THE CITIZENS OF THOSE AREAS THAT BELIEVE IN THE DENIAL OF BLACK RIGHTS.

>> SO GOING BACK TO JUST THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS WHAT YOU WANT.

>> CORRECT.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS RESPECTED FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS AND ULTIMATELY RESPECTED FOR EVERYONE.

WHILE WE FOCUS ON THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, WE ARE AN ORGANIZATION OPEN TO ANYONE FROM ANY COMMUNITY THAT SUPPORTS OUR MISSION.

SO WE FOCUS ON THAT, ONE, BY EDUCATION.

MAKING SURE AFRICAN AMERICANS KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND HOW CRUCIAL IT'S BEEN TO OUR COMMUNITY.

AND THEN KNOWING HOW TO SAFELY EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS AS A CITIZEN IN THIS COUNTRY, SO HOW TO PROPERLY CARRY A FIREARM IN A SAFE MANNER, HOW TO STORE IT SAFELY, HOW TO USE IT SAFELY WHEN YOU'RE ON THE RANGE, AS WELL AS TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE LEGAL CONSTRUCTS YOU HAVE TO NAVIGATE IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE YOU STAY A LEGAL GUN OWNING CITIZEN.

>> THE GOVERNOR IS PUSHING THE CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY BILL, SO IT'S GETTING A LOT OF PLAY.

WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THIS CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY BILL?

>> YES, THE CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY BILL, AS AN ORGANIZATION, WE DO SUPPORT THE BILL OVERALL.

IF WE LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF GUN LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY, THE CARRY LAWS HAVE BEEN USED CONSISTENTLY TO DENY AFRICAN AMERICANS THE RIGHT TO CARRY FIREARMS ON THEIR PERSON.

SO ANYTHING THAT MOVES US AWAY FROM THAT REGIME I THINK IS OVERALL A GOOD THING FOR THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

IF WE LOOK AT IN PARTICULAR CARRY LAWS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT WHETHER IT WOULD BE TO INCREASE LAWLESSNESS OR THREATS TO SAFETY IN SOCIETY.

AND HISTORICALLY, THAT HASN'T BEEN THE CASE.

THERE WAS A RECENT STUDY PUT OUT BY DR. MICHAEL STEELE FROM BOSTON UNIVERSITY, HE'S WITH TUFTS UNIVERSITY NOW.

AND IN HIS STUDY, HE LOOKED AT A VARIETY OF GUN CONTROL MEASURES TO SEE WHICH ONE HAD ANY EFFECTS ON CRIME, GUN USAGE, VIOLENCE IN SOCIETY.

AND ONE OF THE MEASURES HE LOOKED AT WERE PERMITLESS CARRY OR CONCEALED CARRY LAWS.

THE STUDY LOOKED AT THE YEARS RANGING FROM 1991 TO 2016, FOR THESE LAWS.

AND IN THAT STUDY, IT SHOWED THAT THE PERMITLESS CARRY LAWS OR CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY AS IS MOST COMMONLY REFERRED TO, THOSE LAWS HAD ZERO EFFECT ON THE AMOUNT OF GUN VIOLENCE THAT OCCURRED IN PARTICULAR STATES WHERE THOSE LAWS WERE PUT INTO PLACE.

SO IT HAD NO NET NEGATIVE EFFECT AND NO NET POSITIVE EFFECT.

IT DIDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING AS FAR AS THE NUMBERS WHEN IT CAME TO GUN VIOLENCE.

>> DOUGLAS JEFFERSON WITH THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN OWNERS ASSOCIATION.

>>> WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TALKING ABOUT CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY LEGISLATION WITH TWO DEMOCRATS WHO OPPOSE IT.

YOU'RE WATCHING "LAWMAKERS" ON GPB.

>> A PROUD PARTNER OF GEORGIA PUBLIC BROADCASTING AND GEORGIA LAWMAKERS.

THE MISSION IS TO IMPROVE THE HEALTH, WELLBEING, AND PEACE OF MIND OF THOSE WE SERVE.

MORE AT CIGNA.COM TO LEARN HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT EMOTIONAL AND PHYSICAL WELLBEING.

>> WITH OVER 80 YEARS OF HELPING EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANT OF AGRICULTURE IN OUR STATE, AFTER ALL, AGIS GEORGIA'S NUMBER ONE INDUSTRY.

FOOD AND FIBER PRODUCTION REPRESENTS OVER $74 BILLION IN OUTPUT OF GEORGIA'S STRONG ECONOMY.

THE GEORGIA FARM BUREAU LEGISLATIVE TEAM WORKS TO REPRESENT PRODUCERS ACROSS GEORGIA AT THE STATE CAPITOL, DURING THE SESSION AND YEAR ROUND.

GEORGIA FARM BUREAU, THE VOICE OF GEORGIA FARMERS.

>> GEORGIA HUMANITY, CONNECTING PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES ACROSS GEORGIA.

TO ENCOURAGE CONVERSATION, EDUCATION, AND UNDERSTANDING.

FIND OUT MORE AT WWW.GEORGIAHUMANITIES.ORG.

>>> WELCOME BACK TO "LAWMAKERS.

KWTS I'M DONNA LOWRY.

WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION ON CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY LEGISLATION RECEIVING LOTS OF ATTENTION AT THE GEORGIA GOLD DOME, AND WE HEARD FROM THE PROPONENTS OF THE BILL.

NOW WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO TWO DEMOCRATS FROM ATLANTA WHO OPPOSE IT.

SENATOR ALENA PARENT AND REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT HOLCOME.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

YOU LISTENED TO WHAT WE HAD -- WE PLAYED EARLIER FROM SENATOR MULLIS, AND I WOULD LIKE TO START WITH GETTING REACTION.

LET'S START WITH YOU, SENATOR PARENT.

>> WELL, THE ENTIRE PREMISE OFFERED BY MY COLLEAGUE, AS MUCH AS I RESPECT HIM, FRANKLY IS NONSENSICAL.

HERE IN AMERICA, WE HAVE MORE GUNS THAN PEOPLE.

AND WE HAVE FAR MORE GUN VIOLENCE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

HERE IN GEORGIA, WE HAVE A LOT OF GUNS.

WE HAVE MORE LAX GUN LAWS.

ALL THE EVIDENCE SHOWS US THAT BOTH WHEN YOU LOOK AT A NATIONWIDE PERSPECTIVE AND A COUNTRYWIDE PERSPECTIVE, MORE GUNS DOES NOT MAKE ANYONE SAFER.

IN FACT, THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

THERE ARE FAR MORE DEATHS AND INJURIES.

>> YOU THINK WITH CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY, WE'LL SEE MORE PEOPLE BUYING GUNS IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW, WHICH IS A SURGE IN THE PURCHASE OF GUNS.

>> DONNA, EVERY YEAR, THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE UNDER LAW NOT ALLOWED TO POSSESS GUNS.

MOSTLY PEOPLE THAT ARE FELONS, HAVE PRIOR CONVICTIONS.

FAIL TO PASS THE CHECK FOR THE WEAPONS CARRY LICENSE.

APPARENTLY NOW, THE VIEWPOINT OF GEORGIA REPUBLICANS IS WE WANT ALL THOSE CRIMINALS TO HAVE GUNS UNFETTERED.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HEARD THE SENATOR TALK ABOUT THE FACT THEY'RE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE CRIMINALS.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS, HE SAID.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS LEGISLATION?

>> THAT'S THE LINE THAT WE HEAR EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT THERE'S A PUSH TO CHANGE THE STATE'S GUN LAWS.

AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE IS EVERYBODY LIKES TO TALK ABOUT AND JUST SAY THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT UNLIMITED.

IN FACT, IT WAS JUSTICE SCALIA, ONE OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS OF THE SUPREME COURT, WHO SAID THE SECOND AMENDMENT, LIKE ALL AMENDMENTS, IS NOT UNLIMITED.

AND WE HAVE ALWAYS RESPECTED LIMITED REASONABLE LIMITATIONS OF TIME AND PLACE ON WHERE GUNS CAN BE HAD.

SAME IS TRUE IN THE GEORGIA CONSTITUTION.

THERE'S A GEORGIA CONSTITUTION, AND ITS PREMISE IS THAT ONLY LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE OR LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE NEVER COMMIT CRIMES.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

I'M A FORMER PROSECUTOR.

YOU HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO COMMIT THEIR FIRST CRIME AS A MURDER.

YOU HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO COMMIT THEIR FIRST CRIME AS A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENT.

IT IS FALSE AND COMPLETELY WRONG TO SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE THAT HAVE NO PRIOR RECORDS DO NOT COMMIT CRIMES LATER ON.

THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

WITH MURDERERS IN PARTICULAR, THOSE ARE USUALLY DONE BY PEOPLE THAT THEY KNOW.

IT'S USUALLY NOT RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE.

THE MOST DANGEROUS INDIVIDUALS FOR WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY ARE MEN.

AND MEN WITH FIREARMS.

>> SO NO BACKGROUND CHECKS, NO MENTAL HEALTH CHECKS.

YOU THINK IS DANGEROUS.

>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S RIDICULOUS.

I THINK IT'S AN ABSURD POLICY MOVE.

I THINK REALLY WHAT THIS IS IS IDEOLOGY.

IT'S NOT SOUND POLICY MAKING.

WHO WOULD CREDIBLY ARGUE THAT GUNS ARE TOO DIFFICULT TO GET IN THIS COUNTRY OR IN THIS STATE?

IT'S ABSURD.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> I COMPLETELY AGREE.

IT'S TOTALLY ABSURD.

IT'S ACTUALLY BASICALLY TO THE POINT OF GASLIGHTING.

YOU CAN LOOK AROUND YOU AND SEE THAT WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS OF GUN VIOLENCE.

AND IT'S NOT JUST VIOLENCE ON OUR STREETS, AS REPRESENTATIVE HOLCOME WAS SAYING, WE HAVE HUGE PROBLEMS WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

WE HAVE A BIG UPTICK IN THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN FINDING GUNS AND ACCIDENTALLY KILLING THEMSELVES OR A FRIEND.

WE HAVE JUST ON MY WAY OVER HERE, I SAW A HEADLINE THAT A 6-MONTH-OLD BABY DIED TONIGHT BEING SHOT BY A RANDOM BULLET, JUST HAPPENED IN BROOKHAVEN.

REPRESENTATIVE HOLCOME AND I BOTH REPRESENT BROOKHAVEN.

THAT DOESN'T EVEN GET TO SUICIDES.

THE REALITY IS THAT SUICIDE ATTEMPTS ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO ACTUALLY BE DEADLY AND SUCCEED WHEN THERE'S A GUN HANDY.

IF THERE'S NOT A LETHAL WEAPON RIGHT BY YOU WHEN YOU'RE HAVING THAT MOMENT OF DESPAIR, YOUR CHANCE OF SURVIVAL AND IN FACT NOT ATTEMPTING SUICIDE AGAIN IS QUITE HIGH.

SO WHEN YOU ADD ALL OF THIS TOGETHER, YOU SEE THAT WE HAVE AN ABSOLUTE CRISIS IN OUR STATE WITH TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVING GUNS AT ALL TIMES TO WHERE THE SLIGHTEST DISAGREEMENT ESCALATES.

ROAD RAGE INCIDENTS, NONE OF THAT WOULD EVER HAPPEN IF PEOPLE WEREN'T WALKING AROUND ARMED TO THE TEETH.

WE WOULD BE MUCH SAFER SOCIETY WITH FEWER GUNS.

CERTAINLY NOT WITH MORE.

>> WHAT ABOUT WHEN SENATOR MULLIS TALKED ABOUT IT'S AN ATLANTA PROBLEM AND BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING IN ATLANTA WITH THE INCREASE IN CRIME, THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A STATE LAW THAT FOCUSES ON THIS?

>> THAT'S ALSO FLAT WRONG.

AND A COUPLE OTHER THINGS.

ONE, HE'S CLAIMING THAT THIS IS NECESSARY IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO STAY SAFE AND TO PROTECT THEIR FAMILIES.

THAT'S CURRENT LAW.

AN INDIVIDUAL CURRENTLY HAS THAT.

YOU HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PROTECT YOUR HOME.

AND SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE.

AND THE ABILITY TO PROTECT ONE'S SELF.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TAKING GUNS AWAY.

WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS HAVING REASONABLE SYSTEMS IN PLACE WHICH INCLUDE A PERMIT.

JUST TODAY, I RECEIVED DATA ON THE CRIME ACTIVITY FOR 2021.

YOU KNOW THE COUNTIES THAT HAD THE HIGHEST RATES OF MURDER AND NONNEGLIGENT MANSLAUGHTER?

THEY WERE TWIG AND McINTOSH.

THOSE AREN'T LOCAL METRO COUNTIES.

SO THIS IS AN ISSUE WHERE IT'S POLITICIZED AS PART OF THE STATE-WIDE REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN, IT SEEMS, IS TO JUST BLAME ATLANTA FOR ALL THE STATE'S PROBLEMS.

WITHOUT REALLY BEING HONEST AND ACCURATE ABOUT WHAT IS TAKING PLACE IN THE STATE.

AND WHAT IS HONEST AND ACCURATE IS THAT VIOLENCE IS AN ISSUE ACROSS THE STATE AND IN SOME PLACES IT'S FAR WORSE THAN IN THE METRO AREA.

>> IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING REPUBLICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT THE BUCKHEAD CITY MOVEMENT SEEMS TIED TO ALL THIS, TOO, RIGHT?

>> IT'S PROBABLY TIED TO A NUMBER OF THINGS, ALTHOUGH THE CLAIM IS THAT CRIME IN BUCKHEAD IS AN INSTIGATOR.

LOOK, WE ALL WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT CRIME.

THE REALITY IS, OR THAT WE CAN SOLVE OUR CRIME ISSUES.

THAT'S A MULTIFACETED CONVERSATION.

THE REALITY IS FOR EVERY GUN THAT IS USED IN ANY SORT OF SELF-DEFENSE OR TO THWART A CRIME, SIX MORE ARE USED AS PART OF CRIMES OR AS PART OF ACCIDENTAL DEATHS.

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANYONE SAFER TO HAVE HUNDREDS MORE GUNS OUT THERE.

UNFETTERED, HELD BY CRIMINALS, I MOUTH ADD, THAT RIGHT NOW ARE AT LEAST HAVING A MINUTE CHECK HERE IN OUR STATE.

>> ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS I THINK THAT CAME OUT IN THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. JEFFERSON WITH THE NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION, HE TALKED ABOUT STRIPPING AWAY LAWS THAT HE FELT WERE CREATED TO KEEP AFRICAN AMERICANS FROM OBTAINING GUNS.

EITHER ONE OF YOUR WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT.

>> I HAVEN'T STUDIES THAT SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ACCURATE OR NOT.

I THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE LAWS IN GEORGIA ARE VERY, VERY LAX, AND THEY'RE NOT RESTRICTIVE IN ANY WAY.

I THINK ACROSS REALLY RACIAL LINES.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I CAN EXPLORE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S REALLY AN ISSUE IN OUR STATE.

>> I DON'T -- I DON'T VIEW THAT AS JUSTIFIABLY TO BE ARGUED.

I THINK THAT AS REPRESENTATIVE HOLCOME WAS SAYING, BASICALLY ANYONE CAN GET A GUN.

IF WE EVER HAD RESTRICTIONS LIKE THAT, THEY ARE MANY, MANY DECADES OLD.

WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US RIGHT NOW IS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE.

IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE WIDESPREAD OWNERSHIP OF GUNS IN THIS STATE, HOW CAN WE MAKE THAT OWNERSHIP SAFER FOR COMMUNITIES?

AND INSTEAD, WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE IT ACTUALLY MORE DANGEROUS.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT LEGISLATION.

YOU KIND OF ALLUDED TO IT IN SOMETHING YOU SAID EARLIER.

SENATE BILL 146 THAT YOU FILED LAST YEAR THAT IS STILL IN PLAY.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT'S ABOUT.

>> THANK YOU, DONNA.

YEAH, SENATE BILL 146 WOULD MAKE IT A MISDEMEANOR TO KNOWINGLY OR RECKLESSLY LEAVE A GUN UNSECURED WHERE THE PERSON KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT IT COULD BE FOUND BY A CHILD.

AND THEN IT ADDITIONALLY MAKES IT AN AGGRAVATED MISDEMEANOR IF THE CHILD OBTAINED THE GUN AND CAUSES DEATH OR SERIOUS BODILY INJURY TO THEMSELVES OR ANOTHER PERSON.

RIGHT NOW, IN GEORGIA, WITH THIS ESCALATING EPIDEMIC OF CHILDREN FINDING GUNS AND KILLING THEMSELVES OR OTHERS, YOU KNOW, PLATITUDES ABOUT, OH, THEY SUFFERED SO MUCH, JUST DON'T CUT IT.

WE NEED THE PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM, THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO OWN A GUN, IT NEEDS TO COME WITH RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP TENANTS.

AND IT WOULD SEEM LIKE IT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE COULD ALL AGREE ON.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I DID HEAR MY COLLEAGUE, THE RULES CHAIRMAN, SAY THAT GUNS SHOULD BE STORED SAFELY, SO I LOOK FORWARD TO HIS SUPPORT ON THE LEGISLATION.

>> ALL RIGHT THEN.

I KNOW THAT THERE'S A BILL, I LOVE HAVING ATTORNEYS RIGHT HERE, BOTH OF YOU TODAY.

YOU HAVE A BILL, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

WORKING ON A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE DNA TAKEN WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IS ARRESTED FOR A VIOLENT CRIME.

TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

>> THE IDEA IS TO BUILD UPON SOME OF THE WORK THAT WE HAVE DONE OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, PARTICULARLY ADDRESSING THE STATE SEXUAL ASSAULT RESPONSE HAS BEEN A PASSION OF MINE FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

SO DNA EVIDENCE HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY HELPFUL IN IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE COMMITTED THESE CRIMES.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO THROUGH TESTING IDENTIFY REPEAT OFFENDERS, SERIAL RAPISTS, AND BRING CASES, WHICH WAS NOT HAPPENING.

DNA EVIDENCE IS A REMARKABLE TOOL FOR SOLVING CRIMES.

AND IT'S ALSO USEFUL FOR EXONERATING INDIVIDUALS.

SO A MAJORITY OF STATES IN THE COUNTRY COLLECT DNA AFTER ARREST, WHICH ARREST HAS A LEGAL STANDARD OF PROBABLE CAUSE, WHICH IS ALSO THE STANDARD FOR A SEARCH.

AND SO I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE STATE SHOULD CONSIDER AS ONE OF OUR TOOLS FOR SOLVING CRIMES.

>> THIS WOULD BE FOR MOSTLY VIOLENT CRIMES.

IT WOULDN'T BE EVERYBODY ARRESTS?

>> CORRECT.

VIOLENT CRIMES.

WE WOULD LIMIT IT ACCORDINGLY TO BE SPECIFIC.

>> BEFORE YOU LEAVE, I KNOW THAT IN 2014, WE HAD AN EXPANSION OF SOME WEAPONS LAWS IN THE STATE.

YOU BOTH WERE -- YOU BOTH WERE IN.

YOU WERE JUST COMING IN.

IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCED IN 2014 WHEN THEY EXPANDED THINGS SO YOU COULD TAKE GUNS WITH YOU INTO CHURCH OR OTHER PLACES?

AND WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

>> I HEARD THE SAME NONSENSE FOR A LONG TIME.

IT'S TIRED.

AND THERE IS A CORRELATION WITH AN ELECTION YEAR, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE IN NOW.

>> CORRELATION WITH AN ELECTION YEAR, AND LET'S NOTE AGAIN THAT WITH ALL OF THE OPENING UP OF THE LAW 2014, ET CETERA, GUN VIOLENCE HAS GONE UP AND UP.

>> WE HAVE TO GO.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

I LOVE HAVING ATTORNEYS ON THE SET.

I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT ON "LAWMAKERS."

YOU CAN JOIN THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

DON'T FORGET TO TUNE IN TOMORROW AT 9:00 A.M. ON YOUR GPB STATION WITH POLITICAL REWIND.

JOIN US TOMORROW FOR DAY SIX.

HAVE A NICE DAY.

EVENING, I SHOULD SAY.