♪ >> SENATE LAWMAKERS DEBATE CHANGES TO THE ABORTION BAN.

A REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR LEAVES HIS CAUCUS.

PLUS, QUESTIONS ABOUT A RECESSION AND MORE ON INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING JULY 29, 2022.

♪ >> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

THIS WEEK, THE INDIANA SENATE REJECTED AN EFFORT THAT WOULD'VE DELETED RAPE AND INCEST EXCEPTIONS FROM ITS PROPOSED ABORTION BAN.

REPUBLICAN SENATOR MIKE YOUNG PROPOSED AN AMENDMENT THAT WOULD HAVE LIMITED EXCEPTIONS IN THE BAN ONLY TO WHEN THE LIFE OF THE PREGNANT PERSON IS AT RISK.

SEN. MIKE YOUNG: AND WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS IF THEY RAPE THE WOMAN, WE OUGHTA KILL THE BABY.

THAT IS NOT RIGHT AND I WILL NEVER, EVER ACCEPT THAT >> THE DEBATE JUST ON YOUNG'S AMENDMENT TOOK TWO HOURS.

AND LAWMAKERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE VOTE PROFESSED THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ON THE FLOOR TO DEFEND THEIR POSITION.

EIGHTEEN REPUBLICANS JOINED DEMOCRATS IN VOTING AGAINST YOUNG'S PROPOSAL.

REPUBLICAN SENATOR SUE GLICK SAYS RAPE AND INCEST VICTIMS SHOULDN'T HAVE CHOICE TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM.

SEN. SUE GLICK: DON'T FOSTER THAT EVIL ON THEM AFTER THE EVIL THEY'VE ALREADY SUFFERED.

>> LAWMAKERS CONSIDERED 32 OTHER CHANGES TO THE ABORTION BAN.

MOST WERE OFFERED BY DEMOCRATS, AND THE VAST MAJORITY WERE REJECTED.

DOES THIS GIVE US A CLEARER VERSION OF WHAT THE FINAL BILL WILL LOOK LIKE?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN JON SCHWANTES, STATEHOUSE NIKI KELLY, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF FOR THE INDIANA CAPITOL CHRONICLE YOU THINK I WOULD KNOW JON'S TITLE BUT I WROTE THE WRONG THING ON MY SCREEN.

MIKE O'BRIEN, ARE YOU SURPRISED THE RAPE AND INCEST EXCEPTIONS WERE KEPT IN THE BILL?

>> NO, IT REFLECTS WHAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF HOOSIERS AND REPUBLICANS SUPPORT.

IT'S NOT LIKE THIS BILL WAS GOING TO GET MORE STRICT.

IT DOESN'T STOP AT NO EXCEPTIONS.

IT GOES FAR BEYOND THAT ON ENFORCEMENT AND PROVING YOUR RAPED AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT WASN'T FOR LACK OF TRYING FROM THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS.

THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME BEHIND CLOSED DOORS TRYING TO GET TO 26 AND THERE WAS NOTHING THAT COULD GET THEM THERE.

ULTIMATELY THIS PACKAGE IS WHAT THEY CAN PASS, RIGHT?

IT'S ALL THEORETICAL UNTIL YOU GOT TO PUSH THE BUTTON.

AND THAT'S WHAT THESE GUYS WERE FACING.

AND A LOT OF THEM, RIGHTLY, COULDN'T STOMACH PASSING A BILL THAT WOULDN'T GIVE OPTIONS TO A WOMAN WHO WAS RAPED OR WAS GOING TO DIE THROUGH THE COURSE OF PREGNANCY.

IT REMINDED ME OF THE ATTEMPT TO BAN GAY MARRIAGE EIGHT YEARS AGO AND ALL THE THREATS THAT WERE MADE DURING THAT SESSION.

WHEN IT CAME TIME TO PUSH THE BUTTON A LOT OF REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS COULDN'T DO IT.

YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED?

NOTHING.

THEY ALL GOT REELECTED.

INDIANA RIGHT TO LIFE PUT THEMSELVES IN A BOX HERE CALLING FOR SOMETHING THAT IS CLEARLY UNACCEPTABLE TO THIS LEGISLATURE AND THE PUBLIC AT LARGE.

>> MIKE TALKS WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO TIME TO PASS THE BUTTON.

THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE A VOTE ON SATURDAY.

IF YOU'RE WATCHING THIS ON SUNDAY, YESTERDAY.

YOU CERTAINLY WILL HAVE DEMOCRATS WHO WON'T SUPPORT IT.

SOME REPUBLICANS WHO THINK THE BILL DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

SOME REPUBLICANS WHO THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT TOO HARSH, PROBABLY NOT A TON OF THOSE AT THIS POINT.

CAN GET THIS TO 26 VOTES IN THE SENATE?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT CAN OR NOT.

I DON'T THINK IT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM REFLECTS WHAT THE PUBLIC WANTS AND THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS DOESN'T CARE WHAT THE PUBLIC WANTS.

>> I THINK THEY VERY MUCH REJECTED THAT THIS WEEK.

THE RIGHT WING WAS SAYING DON'T DO THIS.

>> I KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT WING WAS SAYING.

HOW DO I PUT THIS?

>> IF YOU WANT NO RESTRICTIONS, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

>> I'M NOT SAYING NO RESTRICTIONS.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THIS BILL IS.

>> NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

>> THIS BILL IS INHUMANE.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

AND I DON'T THINK THE THREE EXCEPTIONS ARE SUFFICIENT.

AND THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE ANOTHER DEDUCTION TO A PERSON HAVING A CHILD THAT SHE CAN'T SUPPORT AND CAN'T TAKE CARE OF AND SAVE HER $3 IN TAXES IS GOING TO BE ENOUGH TO MAKE UP FOR THIS.

THEY SHOULD LEAVE THIS DECISION IN THE HANDS OF THE WOMAN INVOLVED.

OKAY?

THEY SHOULD.

AND IF THEY WANT TO RESTRICT IT BY A NUMBER OF WEEKS WHEN EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU'RE PREGNANT AND YOU'VE HAD TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT, OKAY, PICK 12 OR 15 WEEKS.

BUT ALL THESE GOTCHAS.

NOW YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE AFFIDAVIT NOTARIZED AND THE CHILD WHO IS THE VICTIM OF INCEST WILL HAVE TO TELL NOT JUST THE DOCTOR BUT THE NOTARY.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY INHUMANE.

IT'S CRUEL.

THE IDEA THAT THERE COULD BE PEOPLE IN YOUR CAUCUS COULD GET UP THERE AND SAY A 10-YEAR-OLD SHOULD BEAR A CHILD IS INCOMPREHENSIBLE.

>> HOW MUCH DID THE CASE OF THIS 10-YEAR-OLD OHIO GIRL WHO HAD TO COME TO INDIANA TO ACCESS ABORTION CARE, IS THAT PLAYING A ROLE IN THIS DEBATE?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

BEFORE THAT INSTANCE CAME OUT THERE WAS THIS NEBULOUS IDEA THAT MAYBE EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE A SMALL CHILD IS RAPED BUT IT'S SO FEW AND FAR BETWEEN AND THE FACT THAT THEY PROVED IT AND THE CASE IS GOING THROUGH.

THE GUY IS NOW, I SAW YESTERDAY THAT THE TEST CONFIRMED HE IS THE FATHER.

THAT REALLY CHANGED THE DIALOGUE BECAUSE EVERY QUESTION RIGHT AFTER IT IS ARE YOU OKAY WITH FORCING A 10-YEAR-OLD TO GIVE BIRTH.

EVEN MIKE YOUNG DURING HIS COMMENT ON HIS AMENDMENT SAID I WOULD PREFER TO HAVE AN EXCEPTION FOR UNDER 16, ALTHOUGH HE DIDN'T DRAFT THE AMENDMENT THAT WAY.

>> HE WROTE A BUNCH OF AMENDMENTS.

>> A BUNCH.

I THINK THIS WOULD BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DISCUSSION IF THAT OHIO STORY HADN'T COME OUT.

>> MIKE TALKED ABOUT INDIANA RIGHT TO LIFE AND THE ONLY EXCEPTION THEY'RE WILLING TO ACCEPT IS WHEN THE RIGHT OF THE PREGNANT PERSON IS AT RISK.

THEY'RE SAYING VOTE AGAINST THIS BILL.

IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

IS THAT THE SMART PLAY IF YOU'RE THAT ORGANIZATION HERE?

THIS BILL AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS IS WAY MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE CURRENT LAW.

IF YOU'RE INDIANA RIGHT TO LIFE, ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR?

>> WELL, I THINK THE CHALLENGE THAT ANY SPECIAL INTEREST ORGANIZATION THAT'S DEDICATED TO ONE PURPOSE AND ONE PURPOSE ONLY, AS OPPOSED TO OTHER GROUPS.

THE CHAMBER HAS A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.

UNIONS HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE JUST TO STAMP OUT ABORTION AND PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN YOU MONEY BASED ON THAT NOTION AND THEY HAVE VOLUNTEERED TIME AND EFFORTS.

THEY'RE KEEPING THE UTILITY BILLS PAID AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EMPLOYED BY THESE ORGANIZATIONS, LOBBYISTS PAID.

IT'S HARD THEN TO SAY, YOU KNOW, COMPROMISE IS GOOD.

THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE PRONE TO COMPROMISE, WHICH IS WHY THEY'RE IN THAT GROUP TO BEGIN WITH.

I'M NOT SURE THAT'S AN OPTION.

IT MAY BE THE SMART POLITICAL OPTION, STRATEGIC OPTION.

BUT AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, I DON'T THINK IT IS.

WE PREDICTED, IT'S INTERESTING, SIX WEEKS AGO, SOME PEOPLE SAID WE'RE DELAYING THE SPECIAL SESSION BECAUSE OF DISPUTES OVER FOR INSTANCE THE TAX OR THE FINANCIAL COMPENSATION.

>> THERE'S STILL SOME DISAGREEMENT.

>> YEAH.

BUT I THINK WE GENERALLY THOUGHT THIS IS ABOUT REPUBLICANS TRYING AS BEST THEY CAN TO WORK THINGS OUT AND COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF LANGUAGE THAT'S ACCEPTABLE BEFOREHAND.

>> THERE IS STILL -— .

>> LOOK AT THE AMENDMENTS.

YOU STILL HAD THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR BREAK A TIE.

>> ON AN AMENDMENT.

THAT'S VERY RARE.

>> VERY RARE.

>> ON THE FINAL VOTE IN THE SENATE YOU'LL HAVE DEMOCRATS VOTING NO, A SMALL NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS WHO VOTE NO BECAUSE THEY THINK THE BILL GOES TOO FAR.

THAT GROUP OF 18 WHO VOTED TO TAKE OUT THE RAPE AND INCEST EXCEPTIONS, ARE ENOUGH OF THEM WILLING TO IGNORE INDIANA RIGHT TO LIFE AND SAY AT THE VERY MINIMUM LET'S KEEP THE BILL MOVING AND I'LL VOTE FOR IT?

>> THAT'S BEEN A QUESTION ALL WEEK.

IT'S A COMMON PRACTICE.

LET'S JUST KEEP IT GOING.

YOU GOT RIGHT TO LIFE BREATHING DOWN YOUR NECK.

THINK ABOUT WHERE YOU'RE AT WITH RIGHT TO LIFE IF YOU'RE A LEGISLATOR.

YOU COULD VOTE FOR A BILL THAT HAS NO EXCEPTIONS AND NOT GET ENDORSED BY INDIANA RIGHT TO LIFE BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

THAT'S AN EXTREME POSITION.

AT SOME POINT, THERE COULD BE A GOOD NUMBER OF THOSE CAUCUS THAT SAY I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU TELL ME.

IF YOU'RE NO EXCEPTIONS, VIGOROUS ENFORCEMENT, I'M NOT FOR THAT.

I'M FOR PUTTING MORE RESTRICTIONS ON ABORTION.

AND AT SOME POINT YOU JUST KIND OF KICK RIGHT TO LIFE OUT OF THE ROOM AND DO WHAT WE CAN ACTUALLY DO AND GO HOME AND IF THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.

>> LET'S SEE IF THEY HAVE THE GUMPTION.

>> THEY DID YESTERDAY.

THEY'VE ALREADY DONE IT.

>> IT'S NOT FINAL PASSAGE.

>> SPEAKING OF MIKE YOUNG, REPUBLICAN SENATOR MIKE YOUNG LEFT THE GOP CAUCUS THIS WEEK, IN A STORY FIRST REPORTED BY CASEY SMITH OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

>> YOUNG'S DEPARTURE FROM CAUCUS CAME VIA A LETTER TO SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM RODRIC BRAY.

THE LETTER, OBTAINED BY THE CAPITAL CHRONICLE, CITED THE ABORTION BAN DEBATE AS A MAJOR REASON FOR HIS RESIGNATION FROM THE CAUCUS - IN PARTICULAR, EXCEPTIONS FOR CASES OF RAPE AND INCEST.

BUT HE ALSO MENTIONED PERCEIVED PERSONAL SLIGHTS BY CAUCUS LEADER BRAY, INCLUDING CANCELLATION AND POSTPONEMENT OF MEETINGS.

STILL, THE SIX-TERM STATE SENATOR SAYS IN THE LETTER HE WON'T PARTICIPATE IN CAUCUS MEETINGS "UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT I FEEL IT IS APPROPRIATE TO RETURN."

>> POLITICALLY, OF COURSE, THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING TO TALK ABOUT.

HOW MUCH DOES THIS REALLY IMPACT THE CAUCUS OR THE CHAMBER?

>> I THINK IT WOULD MAKE THE CAUCUS PRETTY HAPPY, HAVING HAD TO DEAL WITH HIM AND HIS EGO THIS WHOLE TIME.

BUT I WONDERED IF IT WAS THE BEGINNINGS OF SOME RUMBLES OF THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM.

NOT TO MAKE MIKE YOUNG PRESIDENT PRO TEM.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT FOR A MINUTE.

BUT IF THERE ARE SOME LITTLE RUMBLES ON THE WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN HANDLED AND THE FACT THAT THEY COULDN'T HAVE UNANIMITY GOING INTO THIS AND THEY'RE GOING 2 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER AND FISTICUFFS GOING ON.

THERE COULD BE AN IMPACT ON THAT AND IN TERMS OF HIM AND THE IMPACT ON THE CHAMBER ON THE CAUCUS, IT'S PROBABLY POSITIVE.

>> I WILL SAY IN TERMS OF IMMEDIATE IMPACT THE REASON THERE WAS A VOTE ON THAT AMENDMENT THIS WEEK WAS BECAUSE HE LEFT THE CAUCUS.

THE CAUCUS DOESN'T SUPPORT IT AND THE RULE IS IF THE CAUCUS DOESN'T SUPPORT THE AMENDMENT YOU CAN'T BRING IT TO THE FLOOR.

MIKE YOUNG LEFT SO YOU CAN BRING IT TO THE FLOOR.

IF THIS DOES LAST TO THE NEXT SESSION, DOES IT HAVE ANY MEANINGFUL IMPACT?

>> MAYBE, HE'S A COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF LATITUDE THEY'LL GIVE HIM ON THAT.

ANN TOUCHED ON IT.

WHAT SURPRISED ME THIS WEEK IS THE DE DECORUM.

IT HAS BEEN NASTY.

JIM BUCK TOOK TO THE FLOOR.

CAN WE BE A LITTLE MORE RESPECTFUL.

EDDIE MELTON DID, TOO.

>> THAT HAPPENED AGAIN TODAY.

HE GOT UP AND SAID WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.

>> IT'S BEEN A LONG WEEK.

WE HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF THOSE LATE-NIGHT SESSIONS, PARTICULARLY ON SOMETHING THIS CONTENTIOUS.

MIKE YOUNG LEAVING THE CAUCUS AND THINGS THAT DON'T NORMALLY HAPPEN ARE HAPPENING THIS WEEK.

>> DOES THIS REFLECT TO ANN'S POINT IF YOU'RE ROD BRAY, ARE YOU WORRIED HOW THIS REFLECTS ON YOUR LEADERSHIP?

>> THERE'S NO WAY ROD BRAY OR ANY HUMAN WE'VE ENCORONET -— ENCOUNTERED IN THE HISTORY OF SOCIETY COULD GET UNANIMITY ON THIS.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE 100% AGREEMENT TO HAVE PEOPLE TO STOP SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER.

>> GETTING AGREEMENT ON THIS ISSUE WOULD BE VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

I DON'T THINK HE IS NECESSARILY WORRIED.

IT PROBABLY DOES MORE HARM TO MIKE YOUNG AND THE POWER HE WIELDS ESPECIALLY IF HE IS BARRED, IF THIS CONTINUES LONG-TERM AND IS BARRED FROM RETURNING TO THE CHAIRMANSHIP, WHICH IS A HIGH PROFILE CHAIRMANSHIP THAT HE SEEMINGLY ENJOYCE.

-— ENJOYS.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT HIS RECORD, A LOT OF IT HAS BEEN IN THAT VAIN, THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM ISSUES.

IF THIS WERE AN EVENLY DIVIDED SENATE WHERE YOU HAVE ONE VOTE AT STAKE, THEN IT WOULD MATTER.

BUT MY GOODNESS, IN A SUPER MAJORITY, IT REMINDS ME OF JERRY BAILS, A STATE REPRESENTATIVE FROM BLOOMINGTON, A REPUBLICAN, A BADGE OF HONOR NEVER WENT TO CAUCUS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT JEALOUS.

HE LITERALLY PUT HIS FEET UP ON THE DESK IN THE CHAMBER AND ENJOYED LIFE.

>> FRANK NEWKIRK.

>> HE CHANGED PARTIES.

>> TO WHAT ANN MENTIONED ABOUT RUMBLES OF ROD BRAY.

DIDN'T THIS SEEM PETTY FROM MIKE YOUNG?

>> OH, YEAH.

IT WAS A THREE-PAGE DETAILED LETTER AND THERE WERE DEFINITELY PETTY PARTS.

THERE WERE TALKS OF I MADE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU AND YOU MADE ME SIT OUTSIDE AND SAW SOMEONE ELSE FIRST.

LOTS OF OTHERS FIRST.

I HAVE HEARD THERE ARE OTHERS IN WOULD LIKE A DIFFERENT LEADER.

>> YOU COULD ARGUE THE WAY ROD BRAY BECAME PRO TEM IS HE MADE HIM HIS RUNNING REMATE.

BUT REMOVING HIM AS LEADER IS A VERY DIFFERENT STORY.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

THE OTHER THING ABOUT THE CHAIRMANSHIP, LET'S SAY HE DOES GO BACK TO THE CAUCUS, CAN YOU STILL REWARD HIM WITH A CHAIRMANSHIP?

YOU HAD A HISSY FIT SO YOU COULD OFFER AN AMENDMENT.

I GUESS I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS CAUCUS BIND ON AMENDMENTS.

I UNDERSTAND TALKING ABOUT THEM AND YOU GET AN IDEA OF WHETHER YOUR AMENDMENT IS GOING TO PASS AND IT'S ULTIMATELY STILL YOUR DECISION, BUT THIS WHOLE LIKE YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED AS A DUALLY ELECTED SENATOR TO OFFER AN AMENDMENT.

>> THERE'S A POLITICAL CONSEQUENCE.

A SMALL P POLITICS.

THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PUT IN A SPOT.

YOU'RE VOTING AGAINST IT NOW YOU'RE PUTTING THEM IN A SPOT.

>> WHAT YOU'RE POINTING OUT IS THE FACT WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE SUPER MAJORITIES.

ALL THE DECISIONS ON WHAT'S COMING UP AND WHAT'S GOING TO BE VOTED ON ARE MADE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

>> THAT'S WHY BALES COULD PUT HIS FEET ON HIS DESK.

THEY COULDN'T PUNISH GUYS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THE U.S. ECONOMY SHRANK BY A LITTLE LESS THAN ONE PERCENT LAST QUARTER, THE SECOND CONSECUTIVE QUARTER OF ECONOMIC GROWTH.

THAT USUALLY MEANS A RECESSION.•BUT THE NONPROFIT, NON-PARTISAN GROUP THAT DETERMINES THAT HASN'T MADE A CALL.

THE WHITE HOUSE IS PUSHING BACK ON FEARS OF A RECESSION.

IT NOTES THAT JOB CREATION AND CONSUMER SPENDING CONTINUE TO GROW.

BUT INDIANA REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIR KYLE HUPFER ACCUSES THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION OF PLAYING "WORD GAMES" AND SAYS HOOSIERS ARE STRUGGLING TO PAY FOR EVERYDAY EXPENSES.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE RAISED INTEREST RATES AGAIN THIS WEEK, THE SECOND SIGNIFICANT HIKE IN AS MANY MONTHS, IN A BID TO EASE INFLATION.

>> NIKI KELLY, DOES A DEFINITION OR LABEL REALLY MATTER HERE?

>> IN THIS POLARIZED SOCIETY THAT WE'RE IN, I THINK IT DOES MATTER.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A GROUP THAT HAS ALWAYS HAD ONE DEFINITION AND SUDDENLY THEY'RE- LIKE NEH, I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE.

I DO SEE WHY PEOPLE WOULD FEEL LIKE YOU'RE MOVING THE GOAL POST BECAUSE YOU ARE.

>> RIGHT.

>> NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE LIVED THROUGH A RECESSION OR TWO AND IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE A RECESSION.

I DON'T KNOW THAT'S LIKE YOU KNOW IMPORTANTOGRAPHY -— IMPORTANTOGRAPHY PORNOGRAPHY WHEN YOU SEE IT.

>> CONSUMER CONFIDENCE HELPS DRIVE AN ECONOMY SO, DOES THE DEFINITION OR LABEL MATTER BECAUSE IF THE MESSAGING IS WE'RE IN A RECESSION, WE'RE IN A RECESSION, WE'RE IN A RECESSION, THEN MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WILL GO I GUESS WE'RE IN A RECESSION, GOT TO SAVE MONEY.

>> I GUESS IN THE POLITICAL CONTEXT, IF YOU'RE SCORING IT AS A DEBATE, WHAT ARE MY TALKING POINTS.

WHERE IS THE WEAKNESS IN THE DEFENSE OF MY POLITICAL OPPONENTS, THIS IS IT.

AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, THOUGH, THESE KIND OF FORMAL LABELS ARE OFTENOUT OF SYNC WITH WHAT EVERYDAY HOOSIERS OR AMERICANS FEEL FOR THAT MATTER.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MIDDLE AMERICA ARE HURT.

AT THE SAME TIME PEOPLE WHO ARE HEAVILY INVESTED IN WALL STREET, THOSE PEOPLE ARE SAYING HALLELUJAH, HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN.

OR REVERSE.

ALL OF US DON'T FEEL THINGS IN THE SAME WAY AT THE SAME TIME OBVIOUSLY.

SO, I THINK THERE IS A BOTTOM LINE, I THINK PEOPLE PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THEIR GROCERY BILLS AND UTILITY BILLS THAN THIS.

>> AND GAS BILLS.

>> TO THAT POINT, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN GOING INTO THE MIDTERMS WITH DEMOCRATS CONTROLLING CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF PEOPLE THOUGHT WE WERE IN RECESSION FOR YOU POLITICALLY.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY ARE WE IN RECESSION OR ARE WE NOT?

CERTAIN SECTORS ARE STRONG.

BUT WHAT MATTERS IS SO MANY PEOPLE ARE HURTING IN THEIR POCKETBOOKS BECAUSE INFLATION IS SO HIGH.

>> OH YEAH.

WE COULD HAVE 1% GROWTH AND REPUBLICANS WILL STILL HAVE A GOOD MIDTERM BECAUSE BIDEN HAS BEEN IN THE TANK FOREVER WITH INFLATION AND CONTINUES TO WEAR THAT POLITICALLY WITH GAS PRICES AND THE DELIBERATE ACTIONS HE'S TAKEN TO MAKE SURE OIL SUPPLIES ARE RESTRICTED.

>> WHAT?

>> ELIMINATEING OIL PROJECTS.

>> THEY WANT TO KEEP THE PRICE HIGH.

THEY'RE NOT PRODUCING ANYMORE.

>> AND EVERY DECISION THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE MADE BECAUSE THEY WANT GAS PRICES TO BE HIGH.

BUYING ELECTRIC CARS.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE DECISION FROM YOUR CAUCUS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE HERE NOT TO CUT GAS TAXES.

>> IT'S FAKE.

IT'S NOT THE PRICE OF OIL.

>> IT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE PAYING.

>> WE DIDN'T NEED A RECESSION FOR REPUBLICAN TO HAVE A GOOD -— .

>> I WANT TO ASK.

I THINK IT WAS LAST WEEK THAT YOU SAID WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT AND I WAS ASKING YOU THE IMPACT OF INFLATION ON THAT RACE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU THINK INFLATION IS GOING TO COME DOWN BY THE TIME WE COME TO THE ELECTION.

>> IF YOU HAVE A CONTRACTION YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT.

>> AT THIS POINT WE'RE IN AUGUST BASICALLY.

>> UH-HUH.

>> IS IT TOO LATE FOR INFLATION TO COME DOWN?

TO MAKE IT SO IT'S NOT GOING TO KILL DEMOCRATS?

>> THE GAS PRICES HAVE COME DOWN TO UNDER $4.

THEY WOULD COME DOWN FASTER IF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE IN INDIANA HAD DONE THE RIGHT THING AND SUSPENDED THE GAS TAX AND THE UTILIZATION TAX.

BUT THEY DIDN'T.

THE SALES TAX AND THE UTILIZATION TAX.

THEY ARE GOING TO COME DOWN AND I DO THINK ROE V. WADE IS GOING TO PLAY IN THIS ELECTION.

I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE AND WE SAW THAT WHEN YOU SAW THE PEOPLE AT THE DEMONSTRATIONS.

WERE ALMOST ALL FEMALE.

WE KNOW WOMEN VOTE MORE THAN MEN DO.

AND THEY'RE YOUNG.

THEY'RE ALWAYS THE ONES DIFFICULT TO TURN OUT IN ELECTIONS, BUT THEY'RE ENERGIZED BY REPUBLICANS ATTEMPT TO TAKE AWAY THEIR RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

>> IT'S A WILD CARD.

>> THIS PART OF THE BLAME GOES TO VOTERS WHO ARE SO EASILY LED ON THESE ISSUES.

SO AND SO PARTY'S POLICIES AND PRESIDENT.

NEWS ALERT, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS IN OFFICE TO A LARGE EXTENT.

THERE ARE CYCLES IN THE ECONOMY.

YES THERE ARE SOME ISSUES.

>> WORLDWIDE.

>> TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNSCIENTIFIC, ONLINE POLL QUESTION.

THIS WEEK'S QUESTION: IS THE COUNTRY IN A RECESSION?

A.

YES B.

NO LAST WEEK'S QUESTION: DO YOU SUPPORT THE SENATE GOP'S TOTAL ABORTION BAN, WITH LIMITED EXCEPTIONS FOR CASES OF RAPE, INCEST AND WHEN THE LIFE OF THE PREGNANT PERSON IS AT RISK?

JUST 13% OF YOU SAID YES.

87% SAY NO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

A NEW POLL SUGGESTS REPUBLICAN SECRETARY OF STATE CANDIDATE DIEGO MORALES AND DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE DESTINY WELLS ARE IN A STATISTICAL TIE.

THE POLL IS BY ABDUL-HAKIM SHABAZZ AT INDYPOLITICS AND HIS POLLING PARTNER ARW STRATEGIES.

IT RESULTS SHOW WELLS LEADS MORALES 31 TO 28 PERCENT, WITH A MARGIN OF ERROR OF THREE AND A HALF PERCENT, WHILE LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE JEFF MAURER HAS 7 PERCENT.•BUT 34 PERCENT OF THOSE POLLED ARE UNDECIDED.

THE FIRM POLLED 800 LIKELY VOTERS EARLIER THIS MONTH.

BUT IT'S NOT CLEAR WHAT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THOSE VOTERS ARE, MAKING IT HARD TO INTERPRET THE RESULTS.

JON SCHWANTES, WITH HOW BIG A GRAIN OF SALT SHOULD WE TAKE THESE RESULTS?

>> AT THIS POINT, I WOULDN'T PUT A WHOLE LOT OF STOCK IN IT.

I TRIED TO FIND THE VERY PRECISE METHODOLOGY OF THIS.

I'M NOT QUESTIONING THE MARGIN OF ERROR, WHICH HAS BEEN STATED AND SO FORTH.

>> BUT THINGS MATTER BEYOND THAT.

>> I ALWAYS APPRECIATE SEEING, AND I THINK IT'S BEST PRACTICE FOR ANY TIME A POLL IS RELEASED TO PUT ALL OF IT OUT THERE SO PEOPLE CAN DRAW THEIR CONCLUSIONS.

AT THIS STAGE I'M NOT SURPRISED 34% OF RESPONDENTS WERE UNDECIDED.

PEOPLE ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION YET TO THAT.

WE JUST SPENT 20 MINUTES TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO AND THEY'RE NOT QUITE THERE YET.

>> IN SOME WAYS THE BEST THING GOING FOR MORALES IS ALL OF THE SPOTLIGHT IS ON OTHER STUFF RIGHT NOW.

>> OKAY, THERE'S 34% UNDECIDED BUT IF THOSE BREAK DOWN SIMILARLY TO THIS POLL, HE IS DEFINITELY IN TROUBLE AND NEEDS TO FOCUS ON THAT.

I THINK AT LEAST IT'S AN INTERESTING POLL TO TAKE NOTE OF AND HOW SERIOUSLY HE TAKES IT MAY SHOW US HOW MUCH IT MATTERS INSIDE DATA.

>> I THINK IT'S GOOD NEWS FROM HER PERSPECTIVE.

34% WHO ARE UNDECIDED DON'T KNOW HIS HISTORY.

THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT BEING FIRED AND THE JOB HE IS TRYING TO SIT ON THE TOP OF NOW AND THE CAR ON TOP OF IT.

IT'S A BIG SHOT IN THE ARM.

SHE'S AN EXCELLENT CANDIDATE.

>> 7% FOR A LIBERTARIAN IS SIGNIFICANT IN THE STATE ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IF HE GETS TO 10%, THEY GET TO HAVE PUBLIC PRIMARIES THE WAY REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS DO FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

COULD THAT PLAY A ROLL?

>> THEY ALMOST GOT IT AND THEY WERE GOING TO SUE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT IT.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE CROSS TABS ON THOSE.

THESE ADMINISTRATIVE RACES, AND ANN SAID THIS BEFORE, THEY SHOULD JUST BE APPOINTED.

MOSTLY THEY GO ON ENVIRONMENT.

EVERYBODY STARTS WITH ARE YOU FOR THE REPUBLICAN OR THE DEMOCRAT.

AND YOU'RE LIKE OH I'M FOR THE REPUBLICAN.

THAT'S WHERE YOU START.

IF IT'S TRULY A CLOSE ELECTION, OF COURSE THE CANDIDATE AND THE KIND OF CAMPAIGN THEY RUN, OF COURSE ALL THAT MATTERS, BUT IT IS HARD TO FLIP ONE OF THESE STATEWIDE.

>> THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN JON SCHWANTES OF THE INDYSTAR AND.

NIKI KELLY OF THE INDIANA CAPITOL CHRONICLE IF YOU'D LIKE A PODCAST OF THIS PROGRAM YOU CAN FIND IT AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR STARTING MONDAY YOU CAN STREAM IT OR GET IT ON DEMAND FROM XFINITY AND ON THE WFYI APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪ >> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.