(elegant music) - Ohio voters could be asked to decide a number of constitutional amendments in November as the legislature works to put the issues on the ballot.

Swastikas turn up twice in Northeast Ohio this week.

One at a high school la crosse game.

The other on the Kent State University campus and the Ohio Supreme Court rules against East Cleveland and Newburgh Heights in their challenge of a law restricting red light cameras.

Ideas is next.

(elegant music) Hello and welcome to Ideas.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

The November general election ballot in Ohio may take some time to fill out.

In addition to candidate races, voters could be deciding on a number of constitutional amendments, including one adding a new requirement for setting bail and another to assure non citizens can't vote in local elections.

There were two ugly incidents in Northeast Ohio this week in which Swastikas were displayed.

One was on the leg of a la crosse player at Lake Catholic High School.

The other was painted on the campus of Kent State University.

Newburgh Heights and East Cleveland will have to look for other sources of money after the Ohio Supreme Court ruled against their challenge of a restrictive red light camera law, and Ohio schools say no to allowing high school athletes to earn money off their name, image and likeness.

We'll talk about those stories and the rest of the week's news on The Reporter's Round Table.

Joining me this week, from Idea Stream Public Media, multiple media producer Gabriel Kramer and Senior Reporter Kabir Bhatia and State House News Bureau Chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

Lawmakers are considering a variety of constitutional amendments that would appear on the November ballot.

One would require judges to consider public safety when determining bail.

The amendment would also block the Ohio Supreme Court from setting rules on bail.

This is one of those things that might drive a certain kind of voter to the polls.

- Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that it's the kind of issue that would draw Republican voters to the polls.

I mean, it's prosecutors who are in favor of this amendment.

The Ohio Chamber of Commerce.

The Ohio Chamber of Commerce is largely a conservative organization.

Though they've taken some more progressive stances on some other things, including things like anti discrimination bills and that sort of thing.

One of the lead voices on this is Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters who is a strong conservative, who says that public safety just can't be guaranteed by electronic monitoring units and court orders on travel restrictions and so he's really pushing for this amendment along with other prosecutors, but then you've got The Buckeye Institute, a conservative group saying that requiring judges to consider public safety in setting cash bail doesn't really guarantee public safety and that the legislature has other ways of dealing with that.

So this really feels like, it's one of those things that potentially drives voters, and especially Republican voters to the polls.

There's also this element of, Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor who has ruled against Republicans in the redistricting battle.

All those maps that have been ruled unconstitutional.

She's joined with democrats in ruling those unconstitutional.

This goes right against what she's been working toward the last, at least five or six years that she's been Chief Justice.

So it feels like there's a little bit of a push against Maureen O'Connor personally as well.

- All right, let's talk about procedure because this is gonna involve the next two topics.

We talk about the other amendments.

In order to get something before the voters, there are two ways to do it.

General Assembly, and then there's also the petition drives.

Groups of citizens can amend the constitution.

This one is looking like they're trying to do this through the General Assembly.

What's the threshold?

- Well, the constitutional amendment has to be put together and submitted to the Secretary of State's office by August 10th and it has to have a three fifths majority in the House and Senate to pass and then it goes to voters.

Constitutional amendments always go to voters for their approval.

It's not just the legislature that gets to approve that.

Voters have to approve it as well.

Right now there was supposed to be a vote on this this week and Speaker Bob Cup pulled it off the table saying his Republican Caucus wants more opportunity to discuss this because you've got some people who have different opinions here and so when you need that kind of a threshold to get this thing out there, then you really need to make sure that you've got a lot of people supporting it and right now that doesn't appear to be the case.

- The other way is a group of citizens can get petitions signed.

It's a pretty high bar and difficult to do, but we've talked about that a number of times.

So I just want to make it clear there, this is a different way of getting something before voters for a constitutional amendment.

(elegant music) Democratic lawmakers say they're planning to introduce a proposed amendment to the Ohio Constitution this week that would guarantee abortion and contraceptive rights.

Given the makeup of the legislature, it isn't likely to go anywhere, but proponents say they must make a stand.

Karen, the legislature is dominated by Republicans.

So the Democrats behind this must know that the chances of passing it are slim.

What's the strategy though?

- Well again, three fifth's of legislators need to pass this for it to go to the ballot and Democrats are deep in the minority.

They don't have three fifth's of the vote and they know this, and on our TV show The State of Ohio last week, I talked to Representative Jessica Miranda who is one of the Democrats involved in this and I asked her, this is probably not gonna go anywhere but I think the goal that she and others have been talking about is to get this out there and to remind people that this is a potential real issue.

I mean, there was a second hearing this week on the so called trigger abortion ban which would ban abortion totally once the U.S. Supreme Court says that states can regulate abortion, and so there are some real questions about what that might do to even access to birth control.

So I think Democrats are putting this out there as a talking point.

It's potentially something that drives voter turnout in November as well and there are Democrats in other states that have been talking about this kind of issue as well.

Maybe not a constitutional amendment but you did see that at the federal level where there was at least an attempt to try to pass in the U.S. Senate, a bill guaranteeing some sort of abortion access and that failed.

- There's no citizen led effort at this point to put a measure like this before voters and given the deadline, there's really no chance that there will be a ballot initiative by people either.

- Yeah, I mean there's, I don't see how there would be a possibility at this point.

I mean, I suppose with enough money there might be the possibility, but I don't think that that's what this is about.

I mean the Democrats haven't been real clear on their plans if this doesn't pass the legislature, but they've talked about potentially bringing it up as a ballot issue next year, and so if it's still an issue and it's still something that's important then they may try to do that, through a citizen initiative, but that's really hard.

It's hard to do that and it takes a lot of effort and a lot of money.

- Gabriel?

- Last weekend, around the country, there were the Bans Off Our Bodies rallies hosted by Planned Parenthood advocates and I covered the one in downtown Cleveland and talking to people, people were obviously excited to be there and were excited to rally for abortion rights and reproductive rights, but a lot of people still felt a little bit defeated.

Feeling like if what happens in the Supreme Court, whatever expecting happens, in Ohio abortion laws will change was the mindset for a lot of people and to have something like this almost just feels symbolic, as if to say we hear you.

There are politicians in place for those at the rally that they can get behind and support and a big message at the rally was to support certain bills and legislation and to support certain politicians who are in support of this.

So it's almost as if a continued rallying cry to continue to get support for this because one of the things that I was asking people was, do you feel like you can actually get enough people to the polls to make enough change in Ohio to keep abortion legal, and a lot of people were confident in that but in the primary election just a few weeks ago, in Kiyo county we saw less than 20% turnout.

So certainly this is seemingly a continued way to keep the conversation, keep people engaged even.

- Public polling shows a majority of Ohioans support abortion rights.

For instance, 2019 Quinnipiac University poll showed 55% of Ohioans believe abortion should be legal in most or all cases.

So that's one set of facts, but the point that Gabe just brought up for Ohio is also one we're looking at nation wide.

There's a calculation.

Would a ruling overturning Roe V Wade, bring people out in huge numbers nationwide and in states like Ohio, or won't it?

To some degree, this seems like it's a political litmus test and if it doesn't, then those who are in favor of banning abortion will say well it wasn't the hot button issue at least at the polls, that some said it would be.

- Yeah, I think you're absolutely right about that.

That when you have a hot button issue, a litmus test, or some, a very contentious, we saw this the last two elections, a very contentious election, you get a lot greater voter turnout.

When the only things on the ballot are maybe a Supreme Court Justice in Ohio and your local school levy, you might not get as much turnout.

So this sort of thing could be really a harbinger of if this goes through and the people who are in favor of banning abortion say look, there wasn't a lot of voter turnout.

Where does that lead to next?

Is that going to lead to other issues that are highly contentious being put up before voters and then maybe not getting a lot of turnout and going forward.

Then suddenly we're entering a new era in politics, shall we say.

I think you're absolutely right.

A litmus test is probably the best word for how this thing could play out politically.

Now you mentioned the polling, it does end up that there usually is support.

The worst, or not worst, I guess the 50/50 split that I've seen sometimes in these polls, that's probably the one that's got the least support for abortion rights and for choice, and even in those cases, 50/50 is still pretty much in line with what we see among voters in Ohio.

That is not the makeup of the state legislature.

I think Karen was starting to point that out.

So if this thing goes through the legislature, and it goes to committee and there's gonna be public opinion, people come in to voice their opinions about it that could really show legislators, look there is 50/50 or greater support for keeping these laws in place the way that they are now.

As opposed to some trigger laws that could go through later.

(elegant music) - Republicans in the Ohio House and Senate are working on another possible amendment that would ban non citizens from voting in local elections.

Non citizens currently are not allowed to vote in Ohio, but proponents say this would prevent any attempt to change that.

Karen though, there was a move by Yellow Springs which is the very liberal area near Dayton to extend, to amend their village charter in 2020, to allow non citizens to vote on local candidates and tax issues, but they backed off of that after the Secretary of State weighed in and said he would mount a legal challenge.

In Ohio we don't have this at this point, but Republicans are looking at it as a down range issue.

- The Ohio Constitution, Article 5 Section 1 to be specific says, every citizen of the United States of the age 18 years whose been a resident of the state, county, township or ward, such time as may be provided by law and has been registered to vote for 30 days has the qualification of an elector as is entitled to vote in all elections.

Every citizen.

It says that right there, but Republicans are saying, hey, this doesn't mean only citizens can vote, and so with that vote in Yellow Springs in March of 2020, to allow non citizens to vote in municipal elections which as you mentioned Secretary of State Frank LaRose told the Green County Board of Elections you can't use, you can't accept those registrations from non citizens.

Well, that kind of nullifies that whole issue in Yellow Springs but Republicans say that's the reason they're bringing this up now.

However, this has been a big talking point among Republicans.

The whole idea of so called election integrity, which people have different views on that.

Democrats have talked about making sure that people have the right to vote and having opportunities to vote.

Keeping that long early voting period available.

Republicans have talked more about things like voter ID, and they've talked about voter fraud, which is not significant.

Even LaRose has said it's not significant but this is exactly the kind of issue that potentially draws people to the ballot and certainly is a big talking point for Republicans.

- Gabriel, there are many who would look at this and say of course, people who vote should be citizens.

That should be the rule, and it is in the state and national elections and in fact, it is in Ohio, as I said.

No one whose a noncitizen can vote in any election.

So there's one line of thinking that says yeah, that makes common sense, but there's another where opponents of this bill say it's fanning xenophobia and perpetuating the great replacement conspiracy.

The kind of thing we talked about recently here on The Sound of Ideas.

- Right.

So citizenship is really hard to get and we've done several stories and shows on The Sound of Ideas about that, but still, there are people who are living here who are residents here, who are part of the country's fabric who are affected by legislation, and a lot of people will say they should have a say on what happens in the election process because they are going to be directly affected by it, but also, in the it's xenophobic to call it that is rooted in the idea that outside the United States most of the world is not white.

So if people are coming to the country, they are probably not going to be white and immigration, we've seen a lot of immigration waves being non white people.

So if we're putting in still, if we're instilling these laws that suggest that, you are not going to necessarily get the right to vote, it comes off as unwelcoming.

It comes off as you're not wanted here necessarily and if you are here, you're not gonna be treated as equal as everyone else.

At least not without going through a long rigmarole of getting that citizenship.

- Hasn't that been what has been happening in history, that you do have to achieve citizenship to get certain kinds of rights?

Other rights you have simply by being in the country and so what about the argument that comes up that by pushing this the folks that are in favor of this, might not have as much purchase on pushing voting rights for people who are citizens or for others who are marginalized which is already a problem in this country.

- Right, so if people want to sell Ohio as a place to come live and come visit, showing that it's a place where you're going to be valued and appreciated and you're gonna have an equal say on things.

Joe Zipperman from.

- Global Cleveland.

- Global Cleveland had said that this is, he said that Cleveland needs refugees.

Cleveland needs immigrants and Ohio does and to say, to have this type of legislation comes off as unwelcoming for sure, and especially when you hear of things like, out of town you have these ads that Mike DeWine has put up saying, come live here.

It's great here.

Look how much cheaper it is in Ohio, but same token say, if you come here you might not necessarily be treated as, like everyone else.

(elegant music) - Lake Catholic High School and Kent State University Police are investigating separate incidents this week that involve displays of a Swastika.

A Nazi symbol of hate and anti-semitism.

Gabriel, you're a Kent State University graduate and we talked just last week about, or actually it was a few weeks ago.

I wasn't here last week, but a few weeks ago, about several homes, lawns and homes in Kent and Garrettsville, where flyers were placed that falsely claimed that members of President Joe Biden's cabinet are Jewish.

That six Jewish corporations own 96% of the media.

Clearly an anti-semitic type of thing and now we see these Swastikas.

What do you make of it?

- It seems like we're living in a world where hate is increasingly more and more welcomed and not welcomed, but expected.

It seems like it's almost like, we've created this world, we're in 2022, we're erasing some of the lessons learned of the past where people may have been more comfortable to do these things.

With the Lake Catholic High School athlete, the anger, frustration, sadness, that comes from the Orange high school community, that comes from Jewish people in Northeast Ohio, it's warranted.

You hope that that young person will learn a lesson and move forward from it, but certainly, it's very sad and very strange and I really hope that everyone out there is feeling okay.

- And part of what the outrage is, is look at the demographics of community.

If you're playing against Orange high school there's a very strong possibility you're playing against a number of Jewish players.

As opposed to West Lake High School or something of that nature.

So it seems rather targeted.

- Oh absolutely, and I played high school sports and slurs are not uncommon.

Taunting is certainly not uncommon.

When you tie those in together you have a real serious problem and you hope that this is something that Lake Catholic High School is gonna take seriously and like I said, I hope this is something that the kid realizes is much bigger than what had happened.ú We aren't sure or not if that tattoo was temporary, if it was drawn on, but certainly it was enough to be offensive.

When I was in high school, which I swear wasn't that long ago, when we played football you had certain, you had to make sure your gloves and your socks were to a certain degree and the referees would actually come down the sideline and make sure everyone has proper equipment, shoes were tied, mouth guards were in your mouths, and this is something that definitely got overlooked for sure.

(elegant music) - By a two to one margin, Ohio's high school principal voted down a proposal that would have allowed high school student athletes to make money off their name, image and likeness.

This was the first vote.

It's not likely to be the last for this policy for high schoolers and Gabe, it comes on the heels last year of college students finally allowing to be able to profit off their name, image and likeness.

It seemed like, from what I've read, folks at the high school level thought this was just a bridge too far.

- Right and when something's been the same way for such a long time, to make a change like this, which seems untraditional certainly seems perhaps radical to a lot of people but this is something that as, it's kind of like the idea of legalizing marijuana.

This is something a long time ago a lot of people wouldn't have shown support.

Now it's gaining more and more support and you're seeing it, potential legislation for an Ohio time and time again.

So this is something that I would expect would be back on the ballot, but also what was mentioned is, the Ohio High School Athletic Association wants schools and athletic associations and athletic directors involved in any potential legislation that comes out of it which I find to be pretty interesting, because this legislation is intended to provide student athletes with more control of their lives, and in order to potentially provide them more control over their lives there needs more people providing control over this legislation.

- Kabir, nine states have approved the name, image, likeness regulations for high school athletes, but I'm left to wonder when I look at this and of course, there's a broad discussion to be had here and there's much more to it but do I need a high school junior to sell me Wheaties?

- Well, I don't know.

Depends on how much you dislike Wheaties and need someone to convince you, but as far as the high school students, I don't know.

I mean, that's the answer that I guess these other nine states have found out and we're gonna start finding out here but getting the money from these deals, one of the coaches, I think down state, liken this to well a 14 year old can start a YouTube channel.

Why can't a 14 year old whose great at football get money as well?

If the 14 year old's making millions but I think the key thing to remember here is that YouTube channel is outside of school.

It has nothing to do with school.

Athletics are part of school and once you've got the music students and the math league, mathletes, excuse me, them getting in on this as well, for ways to make money, which I don't think that would ever happen, then you can have some sort of equivalency to the new bill that gives athletes the money for their likenesses and stuff.

The YouTube thing I think is far afield and how many 14 year olds do you know locally who are doing that and making seven figures?

I don't know.

I know one.

I know of one.

(elegant music) - Two Northeast Ohio cities that have challenged a restrictive red light camera law have lost.

The Ohio Supreme Court ruling effectively eliminates the profit motive.

Karen, the court essentially said local governments have no expectation of funding from the General Assembly in this decision.

- Right.

The arguments were back in February and it was Newburgh Heights and East Cleveland that argued that they should not have their state funding reduced by the total of the fines that they get from these traffic cameras, and they said this is a whole rule issue that we as a community have the power under home rule to operate these camera programs and the state argued yeah, you can operate those camera programs but there's no guarantee that you're gonna get funding and the state can put restrictions on the funding that it provides to communities and the Supreme Court in a unanimous decision agreed with that, saying there is no constitutional guarantee the state will provide funding for communities.

So the state can now start taking away that, or I believe it has been taking away the amount of money that communities get because communities are required to report the amount of money they get from these camera programs.

These camera programs though, this has been over a decade of fights about cameras and it's not a partisan issue.

The lawmakers on both sides are different parties but the question of whether cameras really do increase public safety or whether they're just a revenue stream, that's been the back and forth here and the state has put some restrictions on camera programs, then that has led many communities to just abandon them.

- There have been a bunch of different kinds of restrictions.

I remember in tiny Lyndale, which everyone knows was the speed trap on 71, when that kind of went away because of some legislative maneuvering, it then became you had to have, they put in a camera, and you had to have a police officer present when the ticket was issued.

I went and noticed that there was indeed a police officer there, whose legs were hanging outside of the window where he was taking a nap, because he didn't have to see.

He just had to be there, and then they built a little shack where the police officer can sit which wasn't necessarily a clear view to the camera they said that it was, or to the light.

So interestingly, it was following the letter of law.

There have been all of this parrying back and forth.

Here's a law, here's a way I can kind of do it, but not really do it.

Now it seems if you're taking out the profit motive, we're done.

- Well and I heard from an attorney who said that he's working on a class action lawsuit against Newburgh Heights for recovery of the money that has been collected from citizens because of that camera program, so this whole thing isn't over yet, and I believe the Supreme Court is still deciding on whether there should be refunds to people in Cleveland who got traffic tickets and the program then ended.

So this still continues on, but it's a point of real debate among different, and again, not partisan lawmakers, because there are Democrats and Republicans on both sides of this one.

(elegant music) - The Ohio State University marching band will get to the see the new Top Gun Maverick sequel tonight.

It's not being released until next week but the band members get a special on campus screening thanks to star Tom Cruise, who loved the band's Top Gun half time show last year.

Karen, this is a great band to see.

I mean, to listen to as well, but I hope they don't have to actually have a conversation with Tom Cruise.

I don't know, maybe he's an interesting guy to talk to.

When he's off script, but what a cool recognition of the band.

- Absolutely, and if you've ever seen any of the half time shows, they are tweeted out quite often and everything, they are amazing.

They are really really well done, and I mean, Ohio University has a great band too.

Different style, but the Ohio State marching band is just something special.

- Ohio University is marching 110 and they do kick some butt.

I saw them play Long Train Running once.

Actually, they have a concert after the show at Ohio University, where people stay and go to one side of the stadium so they can watch them play music besides the half time thing.

That's a cool band too, but it isn't the best damn band in the land.

- That's a big band.

Are there theaters big enough to fit that many people?

- 200 they're getting and it's tonight.

Tonight in Columbus.

Monday on The Sound of Ideas on 89.7 WKSU, we'll hear from a doctor at Cincinnati Children's Hospital whose been studying child brain development and literacy.

A preview, the brain lights up when a child is read to.

The doctor will be speaking later in the week at The Literacy Cooperative's Read Across America celebration.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for much for watching and stay safe.

(elegant music)