- [Announcer] This episode of "IQ: Smartparent" is made possible in part by Chevron.

- [Male Narrator] Chevron is an integrated energy company whose worldwide business includes the exploration for and the production and transportation of crude oil and natural gas.

Chevron is committed to serving the local communities where its employees live and work.

More info at chevron.com.

- Video games tend to have a bad reputation but did you know that they can benefit our children in many ways and even make them smarter?

We'll find out how up next on "IQ: Smartparent".

(calm music) Hi, I'm Dr. Debbie Gilboa.

Welcome to "IQ: Smartparent", a series on parenting media-savvy kids in the 21st Century.

I'm a mom of four boys, yes four boys and I'll bet many of you are like me.

I see my kids reading a book, I'm thrilled but I get frustrated when I see them playing video games for hours on end.

Take a look at this.

By the age of 21, the average child will have spent 10,000 hours playing video games.

It sounds scary right?

But there is good news, really good news.

It turns out that gaming in many ways can be good for kids.

Common Sense Media, a nonprofit organization that rates and reviews children's media agrees.

- [Female Narrator] From multiplayer online games to mobile apps, there's no limit to how or where kids can play video games.

For adults all the options can be overwhelming but there is some good news for parents of gamers.

Parents today don't have to choose between wildly violent first person shooters or dull educational titles.

There are tons of exciting and engaging games that can enhance what kids are learning in school and help them develop skills for future life and work success.

Some of the best video games can help kids develop their communication, team building and problem solving skills and more games now include physical activities that get kids off the couch and moving.

- So video games can give our kids crucial skills that help prepare them for the future.

Here's something most people don't realize, I didn't.

According to a leading expert on gaming research there are 10 positive emotions that children can experience while involved in video games.

Joy, belief, love, surprise, pride, curiosity, excitement, awe and wonder, contentment and creativity.

We are here today to talk about gaming and our kids, about how it's revolutionizing education and of course some of the downsides of gaming and what parents can do.

So I wanna ask the audience.

In the average week, how many hours do you think an eight to 12-year-old plays video games?

I need you to shout out some numbers for me.

- 20?

- 20.

10.

- 30?

- Two.

- Seven.

- Okay, so the answer is 13.

The average eight to 12-year-old plays 13 hours of video games a week which is almost two hours a day which for a lot of kids is a fair percentage of the time that they're awake.

From the time they get home from school or activities and the time they're headed to go to bed.

We're gonna talk to a bunch of experts today about what these video games are doing to our kids and what they can do for our kids.

So now here's a fun job.

Our first guest spent several years as a designer and programmer for Disney and now he's here to tell us more about how playing video games can be a learning experience for children.

Jesse Schell is the founder of Schell Games, one of the country's largest video game studios.

Schell games is a group of highly talented artists, programmers, producers and game designers.

These very creative people, led by Jesse have created family-friendly games that are innovative and fun.

Jesse is also on the faculty of the Entertainment Technology Center at Carnegie Mellon University.

Jesse, thank you so much for joining us today.

- Glad I could be here.

- Before I ask you about your knowledge and all the amazing things that you do at Schell Games, I wanna ask a very basic question for the parents who maybe feel a little out of touch.

When we talk about kids, what do the words gaming and gamers mean?

- Right so gaming just means any kind of video games that kids are playing.

Anything from something you play on a phone to a game you play on a television to a game you play on the PC.

- Okay so my preschooler might be gaming and my high schooler might be gaming?

- Sure.

- Okay, are they gamers?

- Well when people say gamer they usually mean someone who's a little more into it, somebody who, where it's a regular hobby for them, that they're excited about.

- Okay so it not necessarily they have only one game they love but they have a passion about gaming?

- Usually yeah.

- Okay, so as a family doctor I do well child checks and when I ask parents I say, "How much screen time is your child using?"

And in that I'm really lumping together everything a kid does in front of a screen.

Should I be putting in the same category the time that they are watching screens like watching TV, watching YouTube videos and the time that they are using screens and playing games?

- I think it depends.

I mean on one level screen time tells you probably how much the kid is being sedentary and being indoors, at least most cases but if you're talking about mental activity, it varies a great deal when you're playing a game versus watching a television.

It's very, very different.

- Okay and it is true when I'm in the office that I'm asking a little bit about the sedentary but also we do have this sense that like, all screen time is created equal and I hear you saying that it's not.

- Right, I mean we have games where you actually are physically active and we have games that challenge your problem solving ability a great deal and then we also you know, and you also have screen time where you're really just kind of zoning out and not thinking about much.

- Totally by myself.

- Yeah.

- And we're getting the sense from the things that we've watched so far on the show that maybe there are some things about gaming that is great for kids.

Can you talk more about that?

Why would gaming be good for my kids?

- Well there's so many good things.

You talked about those positive emotions but kids love to be challenged.

I mean kids are learning machines and they love to try and learn new things and to do new things and one of the things games are really good at, games of all kinds, is giving you challenges that you can work your way up to and meet.

- Right so if I'm at level three of a game you're not giving me level six work to do.

Right, because some kid in the class can do level six work but you're also not asking me to only do level one work right?

- I heard one kid put it really well that what they liked about games is that games are hard but then you get better at them.

- Sure that makes sense.

- And that's a very rewarding feeling for anybody.

- And there's this issue that as soon as my child loses at a game I usually don't hear "Ah."

and they turn it off I hear "Ah."

and they play it again.

- Right.

- Right and I feel like that's probably a worthwhile character trait for them to build.

- I mean it's, yeah it's part of what a lot of games teach is that if you, there's something that you want, you're gonna have to work for it.

It doesn't just give it to you.

You're gonna have to figure it out, you're gonna have to be patient, you're going to have to try again and these are all things.

- Right.

- That we want our kids to learn.

- Right, I'd like to describe my kids as patient, as persevering, as team builders and collaborators.

We know that gaming, when we think about gaming of all games not just screens, that gaming is crucial for children's development.

Right, preschoolers, elementary schoolers, high schoolers, everybody has to learn to follow rules, to understand rules, to work, to take turns all of those things that Monopoly could teach my kids.

So what is it video games could teach them that Candy Land and Monopoly can't.

- So I think there are a lot of things.

First of all the way that modern video games have you right in the middle of things and you're reacting to things in a realtime situation is very different than what you have with board games.

There are some similarities in board games in terms of some of the strategy.

- But it's kind of like what board games wanna be right?

- In some ways it's what board games aspire to be but in other ways board games, you know, what's nice is they're simple and they're still and you can stop and think and that they'll let you stop and think but there's other things that video games involve and one of the things is story and character.

- That makes sense.

- And that's one thing kids get very excited about.

- Right.

- It's one thing to watch a story but it's another thing to be a part of a story and to change a story.

- And to help start create it.

- Yeah.

- So what about a kid who never plays video games?

Do you think that there are some things they're missing out on?

- I've seen this.

Yeah actually I've seen this in some cases.

I find, just in my personal experience, kids who never play video games approach problem solving in a different way.

- Okay.

- It's sometimes a little bit of a slower way.

It's sometimes, what I find is kids who play video games on a regular basis, they often dive into problems, willing to fail, willing to try this, willing to try that, willing to try the other thing.

Whereas kids who aren't used to that take a kind of a slower approach.

I'm not saying one's better or worse.

- Okay.

- But there are differences that I've seen.

- But it seems to me a little bit like saying, hey if your child is struggling in math get them involved in music because we know there's a brain connection between music and math.

That there's a brain connection between what you're learning in video games and being part of a team and a collaborator, trying to fix problems.

- Yeah.

- So what, what should parents be looking for in games that would be good for kids?

- I think you should be looking for games where kids have to solve interesting problems.

- Okay.

- Which most games have some level of that.

But they have them at different levels.

Some of them are much more physical problems but some of them are much more, you know mental.

- [Debbie] Intellectually challenging kinds of problems.

- Intellectual problems that you have to solve.

- Okay.

- I think those are especially good ones.

- So another thing that I know parents can do when they've got kids who are excited about video games is to use that interest to try and excite the kids about careers that might have to do in some way with things they're learning in video games.

There's this idea of STEM.

Science, technology, engineering and math and I'm wondering if you can tell us what is it that we can do to help our kids think about themselves as content creators and not just content users that might then launch them towards these kinds of careers.

- Right and one thing I think is very important for parents is don't just assume that hey, my kid's kind of doing some video game things, maybe that'll lead him to a career in technology.

- Right, it's like magic.

- Right, well it could happen but it's probably not gonna happen on its own.

Particularly because nowadays so many of the media that we have, this sort of digital media, they just wanna sell you things.

They don't necessarily encourage you to be creators.

So learning the difference between which games are just kind of trying to sell you things and which games are trying to get you to build things and then further, looking for opportunities where kids can make their own content, because they can.

- Right absolutely, I mean I feel like that's an opportunity for kids if it's, for all these different topics in STEM.

Right, if they're interested in science then they can use videos and video games to get involved in that.

Technology is certainly key to that.

Engineering, it's all building.

Even if it's virtual, it's building and math is inherent in all of these different activities that they might be doing.

One of the things that PBS, that PBS Kids and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting has sponsored along with a bunch of different national educational organizations is this National STEM Video Game Challenge and this is an opportunity for middle schoolers and high schoolers and college students and educations to get involved creating video games that will then in turn excite kids about STEM and kids of all ages and we are really excited to have with us today four of the winners of last year's National Video Game STEM Challenge.

These are four boys from Seneca Valley School District who have spent time developing a video game.

Archers vs. Aliens that is a really incredible game that helped them while they were sixth graders win an award in this national video game challenge.

So I'm gonna pick on Justin 'cause he's sitting close to me but I'd like to introduce Justin and Drew and Connor and Campbell because it was their team that won this incredible award.

Justin, what is Archers vs. Aliens?

- Archers vs. Aliens is a game where you play as an archer and to get more arrows to shoot the aliens you have to answer math problems.

- So who has to answer math problems?

Guys your age, sixth, seventh, eighth graders?

- It can really be for anyone but it's focused more towards around kindergarten.

- [Debbie] Okay, what were the math problems they need to do?

- There's addition and coming soon, subtraction.

- Coming soon, awesome.

So you guys are still updating your game.

- [Justin] Yes there are online updates.

- [Debbie] So for people that have this idea that creating a video game is incredibly complicated, did you have to get a lot of outside help with this?

Was this stuff that you guys knew how to do or learned how to do on your own?

- [Justin] Well Campbell did the programming and he learned it at a tech camp over the summer.

So he knew how to program it.

- [Debbie] So it's just programming or there's other stuff that goes into it?

- [Justin] Well there's other stuff like the artwork and the idea, the concept.

- [Debbie] Oh yeah absolutely.

So how long did it take?

- [Justin] Two to three months.

- [Debbie] Two to three months.

How did you guys find out about the competition?

- [Justin] Drew, Drew saw a commercial.

- Oh excellent, so see.

This is another way that parents can feel great about screen time.

So speaking of which, how many hours a week do you play video games?

- 15 to 20.

- Okay all right.

That's good, that's a good gauge for parents to have a sense of it.

I have one more question for ya.

Do you have any idea of what you wanna do when you grow up?

- I want to be an artificial intelligence specialist.

- That sounds incredibly cool even though I'm not totally certain exactly what it means.

Okay, thank you very much.

We actually have a question in the audience and we're gonna go there now.

- First I wanna say congratulation boys, good job.

And I have a question for Jesse.

Jesse can you give me the names of some specific games that you believe to be beneficial?

- Sure, well there's so many games and the games are so different for different ages.

What age range are you most interested in?

- Let's say 13 to 16.

- Right, so okay.

So you're talking like the high school age range.

- Right.

- So there are definitely a lot of choices and a lot of it comes down to sort of personal interest but some of the ones I think, some of the sorts of games that you might look are ones that involve a lot of problem solving.

I've been fascinated recently by Scribblenauts.

I don't know if people have seen that game.

It's a puzzle solving game where the idea is any word that you put in, the name of the object that you put appears.

You say apple and an apple appears.

You say boat and a boat appears.

- How?

- It has 20,000 different objects in there.

- Okay that's really cool.

- And you solve problems by having to think of like what should I bring in and so that's a fascinating one.

I think LittleBigPlanet is a really, that series of games.

They're a series of sort of fun running and jumping games but they're also about creating things is another great one.

And Minecraft is another one to look at, at that age.

- Minecraft isn't really just for high school kids either right?

I definitely know younger kids who are into it.

- It's really, oh yeah no it's really for everybody.

- Why should we feel good about letting our kids play Minecraft?

- It's a world where you can build anything and create just anything that you want to.

And it's captured the imaginations of millions of people.

In being able to have that power to create your own virtual world.

- That is really cool.

We have another question from the audience.

- For all the you know, murders and gun violence, do you contribute that at all to games like Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty or do you more see it as getting anger out from other events in a non, well violent but non real violent way?

- So we're gonna talk a little bit more about this with Dr. Primack but do you have any sense in terms of the games that you're creating, do you try and steer away from violence?

Do you worry about the impact?

- Me personally I try and steer away from games that have you know, any kind of gory violence because I feel like that's, the world's got that covered.

I don't need to make more of that stuff.

But it is a really hard question.

I think in games and in all media, to figure out what impact does that have?

'Cause on one level, you would think wow if people are involved in this all the time wouldn't it splash over into their real life?

But then on the other hand one of the things we know about entertainment is that people like to play with dangerous ideas in order to kind of get them out of their system and feel control over those dangerous ideas.

You know you could ask about, would Shakespeare, you know when Shakespeare wrote Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet, would it have been better if all those people weren't murdered and killed?

But you know this is just, these are hard questions that we all have to take one at a time I think.

- And this is something that parents are really wondering about right?

- Yep.

- So how do we, not only how do we guide the content of what our kids are involved in, how do we know what the content is of a game?

If I just glance at the game over my child's shoulder, how am I supposed to get a sense of what's something I should be pleased about and what's something I should be nervous about?

- Well one thing all parents should be aware of is the rating system for video games.

If you buy off the shelf video games.

- [Debbie] Is it better than the movie rating system?

- It's much better than the movie rating system.

- Okay.

- Because not only is it, I think is it clearer in terms of the way its laid out, every game has on the back a list of the things a parent might be concerned about.

- Okay.

- In detail.

There are something like.

- So talking about language, they're talking about violence.

- Oh language and violence and different types of violence, there are 30 different categories that are gonna be called out on the back of the game.

So if you look, the information is there.

You can find the information online.

You know I know you're gonna talk about Common Sense Media.

- Right.

- That's a wonderful website.

- [Debbie] That is a really good resource for parents.

- Yeah so the information is out there and you can get it but the thing I always say is the most important thing is to talk this stuff over with your kids.

It's less about shield, you know very young kids, obviously wanna shield them from anything that could be scary or beyond their age range.

But when you're talking about older, older kids, it's time to start talking about what is, what's right and what's wrong and how do you feel about this?

- How does it fit in with your family's values?

- Yeah.

- And not just saying, "No, don't play that."

But, "Here's why that concerns me."

- Yeah.

- We have another question.

- Hi, I'm an educator and I teach Spanish but I also do caretaking.

So I work with kids all the way from ages of six months up to about 13.

And so when I'm in the classroom sometimes I like to incorporate video games.

Either through an iPad, iPhone or through the internet but then also when I'm taking care of a young child, let's say one years old.

At what age I would say is more appropriate to introduce video games?

Because I've seen commercials that show a one-year-old, two-year-old, and even also again, also with the elderly, using video games.

And I wanna know at what age is it appropriate to introduce it?

Especially even if it's educational or if it's example like dance games where they're more physical?

- So this is such an incredible question.

We are going to have an entire episode about "IQ: Smartparent" talking about early childhood education and how media impacts that and how we can use media or not.

I've gotta say the American Academy of Pediatrics comes out very strongly and says that there is no reason, no benefit to anybody younger than two being in front of a screen for any kind of entertainment or educational purposes but as a mom of four kids, you know my eldest probably didn't spend much screen time before he was two but my fourth one certainly has because the screens exist in the house.

So what can we do to help incorporate our kids in a way that they think about using screens and not just being numbed out by them?

- Yeah I think part of it, one of the things that's really changing it with the young kids are the iPads, the tablets, the touch services because they're so intuitive for the kids.

- It's true.

- And then on top of that there's a lot of really great software.

You know there's music games and number games and shape and color games.

- And we can go to Common Sense Media and look for ratings of those as well.

- Right.

- So this is a really nice transition for us because we don't just wanna talk about what parents are thinking about at home in video games, we also wanna talk about gaming in the classroom.

Philosopher and educational reformer John Dewey said, "If we teach today's students as we did yesterday's, "we are robbing them of tomorrow."

This has probably never been more true than it is these days.

One Pittsburgh area school district that is on the cutting edge of gaming technology is Elizabeth Forward School District.

With the implementation of their SMALL Lab.

What's a SMALL Lab?

Well it's a computer screen on the floor and it's so much more than that.

WQED's Tonia Caruso spent a day there.

So let's take a look.

(twinkly music) (children chatter) - [Teacher] All right, touch it.

Take it up.

- It's a lot of fun.

- [Teacher] There you go Tyler.

- It was challenging, competitive.

- I thought it was like a really cool video game.

- [Journalist] A really cool video game and so much more.

Welcome to Elizabeth Forward Middle School in southern Allegheny County where one classroom is different than any other you've seen before and it comes with some bragging rights.

- There are only six SMALL Labs in the United States.

We're the only public school in the country to have a SMALL Lab installed.

- [Journalist] This is a SMALL Lab.

SMALL stands for Situated Multimedia Arts Learning Lab.

It uses technology and a variety of specially designed games to give students hands-on learning experiences in just about every subject.

The SMALL Lab consists of a mat on the floor with a giant projector and a ring of motion capture cameras overhead.

Those cameras capture the movement of these infrared wands.

In this game.

- Take it.

- [Journalist] Students must choose the right prefix, suffix and root word to match a definition that appears in the temple.

Each winning answer builds the temple higher.

- Remember you're racing against them.

- And the first team to the top wins.

- Having fun and learning at the same time makes it a lot better.

- I think it changes the dynamic of instruction.

The teacher now is not the sole focus.

- And that's where it comes from.

Any other ones give you?

- Of the classroom.

He's not the sage on the stage.

He's the guide on the side and the children are the ones that are really driving instruction.

As you notice when you're watching the simulation, the children were yelling, they were helping each other, they were engaged.

It's a completely different learning environment than in a traditional classroom.

(twinkly music) - I think kids will wanna learn more if they keep coming in here and they'll actually be excited to come to school.

(twinkly music) - When we got here, I just felt like our school was special.

(twinkly music) - Their school is special.

I never thought I would say this but I think I wanna go back to middle school.

We are incredibly lucky to have with us today part of the administrator and faculty and family team of Elizabeth Forward School District.

So we're gonna go to them in our audience.

Dr. Keruskin is the Assistant Superintendent at Elizabeth Forward and has done a lot to spearhead this project.

Dr. Keruskin can you tell us, that students who are involved in the SMALL Lab, do they look at school differently now?

- They have.

They truly, what we're seeing is they're truly connected to learning.

When they go into the SMALL Lab now, they don't wanna leave.

They're in there 45 minutes, they come out, they're working on games and math and language arts.

They're sweating, the bell rings, they still wanna stay in the class.

They're just truly connected and it's been an amazing process over the last couple of months.

- Have you seen some of the metrics that you look at as a school district improve in terms of learning?

- Yes we have.

We see more kids engaged now.

We do formative assessments.

Kids are on the side watching the other kids play these games in the SMALL Lab and they're just totally engaged.

They're totally connected into this learning process.

- That's amazing.

Dr. Bart Rocco is the Superintendent that we saw in our video.

Dr. Rocco I have to tell you that aside from my children as soon as they see this asking to transfer into your school district, what I'd like to know as a parent is, should parents all over the country be encouraging their schools to get gaming into the classrooms?

- Yes I think it's important that we look at what engages and connects kids to learning and I think oftentimes school's not cool, so what happens is, where the kids are engaged is when they go home.

And I think.

- Yeah school is cool now.

- And I think it's important that, you know we wanna make school the place to be and I can recall a couple of colleagues would talk about, you know, when school was sort of like, Futureland.

- Right.

- And that's really what we need to make it.

When they go home, but now it's Frontierland, not Futureland.

So I think we need to do that and I think it's important too that it's not just playing games.

- Right.

- It's also having children create games.

- [Debbie] So they're content creators like we were talking about with Jesse.

- Exactly, it's not just the playing of a game it's the creating and we think that's the level that we wanna reach with the students.

- That really excites them.

That is really amazing stuff.

So what if you could learn everything you had to learn at school.

I mean history, art, math, really everything with games.

Our next guest, Nikki Navta has been helping educators teach just that with her online curriculum called Zulama.

It's been implemented in many schools, including Elizabeth Forward and it helps kids learn through gaming.

Nikki, thank you very much for joining us.

- It's great to be here, thank you.

- Okay, so my very first question for you is, what's Zulama?

- Zulama is a company that I started three years ago.

I worked with a couple of Jesse's colleagues at Carnegie Mellon, at the Entertainment Technology Center and we develop courses that basically teach teenagers how to design games, how to program video games.

- [Debbie] Oh my gosh.

- How to create 3D and digital art and also how to write screenplays and other kinds of modern media.

- So is this an extracurricular that my child would take after school or I would say to them, "Well you gotta pick between this and soccer."

Or something like that?

- It's a really flexible program.

Some schools are using it after school.

Some schools have used it for summer camps but schools like Elizabeth Forward have basically offered it as an elective strand of course that a student can take.

- So this is additional curriculum in the school?

- That's correct.

They did a really cool thing at Elizabeth Forward actually.

They renovated one of their old, kind of dingy computer labs.

- I'm sure it wasn't that bad.

- Oh it was pretty bad.

They've got before and after pictures but it's great.

It's very cool and vibrant.

They added a lot of digital technology to the space and it's kind of a relaxed space.

- [Debbie] It's like a digital coffeehouse kind of idea?

- It's pretty much like a digital coffeehouse and so the kids and parent or the kids and the teachers can go there and basically kind of geek out together and this is where they use the Zulama curriculum and basically they call it their entertainment technology academy.

- That is really cool.

- It is cool.

- So I'm guessing that the high schoolers say, "This is cool, we like this."

What do teachers and parents say?

- I think you'd have to talk to them more but so far, what I'm hearing is, "Anything that keeps my kid engaged and going to school "and excited about getting to school every day "is something I'm in favor of."

- Do you think this is something that your middle schooler would like Jesse?

- [Jesse] I think without a doubt.

- So this sounds maybe like something I can totally see kids in the accelerated program getting into and maybe kids in the usual learning program but what about kids who are special needs?

Right, is this something that they can't be involved in, does this leave them out?

- No I think that's one of the great things about game design and playing games is there's something for everyone and in fact what we're finding is that again, you know sometimes these kids that are sort of, sort of falling out the bottom of the system, they have found something that re-engages them in school because it's cool to be there and they can use their digital technology that they want to use in school not just outside of school.

- So school is cool like Dr. Rocco said but for everybody?

- That's correct.

- Okay.

So we have a question from the audience.

- I work at a local school, Pay School that works with children with emotional behavioral disorders and autism and we've recently implemented iPads within the classroom and teachers using them to lead and generate instruction.

We have found an amazing increase in time of engagement for students and decrease in disruptive behavior.

So I'd wonder if you could elaborate a little bit more about how technologies outside of the lab, but technologies are helping to encourage inclusion in the general education curriculum for children with disabilities.

- So this is really a way to take disenfranchised kids, kids who are maybe home going, "I don't wanna go to school."

Or thinking, "School is not the place that I fit in "or that my skills come to the forefront."

- Right.

- And maybe making them feel a little bit more like it's a place for them to shine?

- Absolutely, plus games are so multimodal.

You know, you have the iPads that have the touch surfaces.

You have the SMALL Labs that use your whole body.

You have a computer that you Use a keyboard and a mouse.

So depending on you know, what kinds of needs students have, there are a lot of ways they can participate in games and game-based learning.

- So Jesse, you hire people to be game designers and programmers and all of those things.

Do you think that this is a place they're gonna get skills that will make a difference to you as an employer?

- One of the things that I think is really changing in the 21st Century is careers begin at a much younger age because self education is so much more possible and it really is, the ability to learn to make things, to work with people in a team to make things, that's something that wasn't really part of middle school and high school education.

- That's certainly true, although it makes me feel as a parent, "Oh my gosh, does my middle schooler "have to know what they wanna be already "when they grow up?"

Or, "Is this gonna be valuable to them, "kind of whatever they wanna do when they grow up?"

- Well, would you like to hire one of these you know, kids that won the game contest or what?

I want them to work for me.

- I really kind of could.

Yeah, absolutely.

- I think you and I are gonna have an arm wrestling match about that later.

- Oh come on.

- So when students finish this kind of a program, I'm gonna push back a little bit as a parent and say I'm worried that they're not gonna get the skills they would've gotten in a more traditional high school class like making a presentation, accepting feedback and criticism, giving other students feedback.

Are they gonna be missing some of those real life verbal and written communication skills?

- I think this is where as a parent, we have an obligation to understand what we're talking about before we sort of make those snap judgments because the curriculum is very much oriented towards actually developing those kinds of skills.

So not only do students learn how to say for instance, create 3D art but then they also learn that if they do wanna make a career in that, part of that job is to pitch that 3D art to the rest of the team.

- So they are.

- And we actually simulate that in these courses.

So they get out.

- Getting out from outside their computer screen and.

- Exactly.

- Talking to other people and accepting criticism.

- That's exactly right.

- Which is such a hard thing.

Okay, we have a question.

- I have two kids in an elementary school in a school district that has a wide range of socioeconomic status.

There's wealthy kids, there's poor kids.

I guess I look at some of these technologies and the dollar signs start going off.

We've already had cuts in our school district.

They're threatening to cut music programs.

So I guess my question is, what do these kinds of technologies cost and is there a way to integrate technology without leaving out the kids who can't afford to have an iPad at home or a computer at home?

- Jesse do you know, is there a price tag or is there a really big dollar sign that must be a part of good gaming education?

- I don't think that's true.

I don't think it's true that there is and I think one of the things that we're really gonna see over the next five years or so.

People are gonna be shocked at how much the tablet prices come down.

They're gonna, they're gonna become so affordable and particularly one of the things we're looking at is tablets starting to replace textbooks because they'll be cheaper, they'll be lighter and they'll be more powerful and that's gonna be the doorway into which a lot of gaming is gonna come into the schools.

- I actually just recently saw an article about technology that's being developed to make gaming consoles that are low energy and solar powered for kids in developing countries.

Right, that this isn't even just gonna be something in highly developed countries that kids are involved in but it's gonna open it up worldwide to something like 500 million more kids or something like that.

- It's fascinating.

- It really is.

So you have teenage boys at home right?

- I do.

- And I wanted to, just because this is really a parent-oriented discussion.

So we're talking about our kids using games in the classroom and using games at home.

Are your kids gamers?

- They are gamers.

- Okay.

- And do you limit screentime?

Do you still lump it together in your head?

Do you talk about how much or content?

How often is it okay?

- Well my kids are now 17 and 18 but they did start gaming in middle school and so we have gone through this process for quite awhile and I really believe in being involved in anything my kids do.

So I feel that if I can play games with my kids or watch them play the games, and actually when they were playing in middle school they were playing Minecraft and they couldn't wait to show me the things that they were creating.

- But in high school they're hanging out with their friends playing a video game?

Isn't it kind of weird if mom's sitting on a couch watching?

- I don't, I don't yeah, I don't do that too much but you know, we all understand what the regulations are in the house just in terms of maintaining you know, grades and other things that go on in life and as long as there's balance, you know they need to decide what they're spending their time on when it comes down to it.

- So Jesse, how do you find that balance in your household?

- It's one of these things you have to take it a little bit at a time and you've gotta figure it out and you've gotta look for where the problems are and when do you, when you feel like, "Boy, this is a little too much."

I think one of the things that I think is a dangerous sign is when you say, "You know, I think it's about time for you to take a break."

And it's like, "No, no it isn't."

And I'm like, "Okay now it's "definitely time."

- Right exactly.

I have to find the.

- Definitely.

Yeah, absolutely.

- Definitely time to take a break.

But it's partly a question of, is there something you're doing alone?

Because when it's something you're doing with the family together I think it's a very different situation.

- But sometimes gaming looks like it's alone when it isn't right?

Aren't there collaborative games online where your child looks like they're sitting by themselves but they feel a part of a larger social group or team?

- Yeah that certainly can be true.

Especially at the high school level.

There are so many opportunities to engage in these sort of collective experiences online but there's also ways you can do that right in the living room.

There are more and more cooperative games where everybody works together.

I've talked to people who, they look for actually as part of an interview process for jobs, if someone has made big accomplishments as a guild leader in World of Warcraft, they wanna hear about it because.

- So they're not just checking your Facebook social profile.

They're also checking your World of Warcraft scoreboard.

- Some of the people who play these games, you know they're organizing, 20, 30, 40 people in order to achieve very difficult tasks.

- That's a real leadership skill.

- I have one of those.

- Yeah, exact question.

- There you go.

- [Nikki] And I've never known as a parent whether to be kind of horrified or proud of him, but.

- Let's take another question.

- [Jesse] It's a little of both I think, yeah.

- It is.

- I'm wondering if teachers and other educators might be resistant to including technology because they feel uncomfortable because it's an area that they might actually know less than their students.

Do you have programs or resources?

- Which would make them like every parent.

- Right, well.

Right, but especially if you're supposed to be the teacher.

So do you have materials or do you have suggestions, books, any sort of programs for teachers and educators?

- Is Zulama teacher-guided?

- To teach them how to use the technology.

- Zulama's absolutely teacher guided.

There's a high degree of interaction between the teachers and the students and we do understand that most of the teachers that are brave enough to start teaching the Zulama courses don't, they're not game designers, they don't have experience necessarily in this field.

So we give them a lot of guidance and a lot of teacher material that helps them through the process.

- Okay, so that's a way that when we're taking teachers, as Dr. Rocco put it I thought was so excellent.

Instead of being the sage on the stage, to being the guide on the side.

To help teachers not only be comfortable in that role but at least to feel knowledgeable and strong in that role.

- Absolutely.

- And that's something that we want all of our kids' teachers to feel, whatever their subject matter is and we want them to be willing to learn with their students.

So this is really an important conversation for parents and we wanna find ways to bring this education, you know gaming into our kids' education but we also wanna find ways to get our kids thinking about themselves as game creators.

We keep coming back to this idea that if you're creating content and not just absorbing content.

- Right.

- That's it's going to benefit you more.

So what should parents look for in the, either whether it's a game they're gonna play in the, their kids are gonna play in the classroom or play at home.

How do we know if a game is something that really engages in creating the story or if they are just kind of being bombarded by the story?

- I think a big part of it is you.

You wanna talk to the kids, you know get them to talk about what have you been doing in the game and learn more about it.

And a good way to guide your kids in.

Part of it is giving them the confidence that you know, hey you know you can do this.

Because the resources are out there.

I mean.

- They don't have to go to a special camp and learn an entire programming language?

I learnt BASIC.

- All right.

There you go.

And there are so many videos online.

There are so many people who wanna help you out, to help people get started.

A great way for younger kids to get started is to find games where you can create content within the game.

Where you can build houses and build buildings and build little robots in the game but then you can gradually work your way towards things where you can just make your own game of the Scratch system from MIT.

- Right, okay this sounds complicated.

You said Scratch which I don't know what it is and MIT which sounds hard.

- It sounds hard, they've made a system designed for young kids.

I mean I think it works great for even eight-year-olds.

I think it works great for maybe eight to 11-year-olds where they can make their own simple games and share them.

And then there's other systems like Alice from Carnegie Mellon University, another free download.

More advanced, a little bit for older kids.

- So if, even if this sounds hard to us it's gonna be pretty intuitive and kids are often picking it up quickly.

- Yeah these are things that can be picked up quickly.

- Okay so we've talked about all of these ways to feel great about gaming and reasons that we should feel really encouraged when our kids wanna game, maybe encourage them to game.

But we would be remiss if we didn't mention some of the concerns, the real concerns that parents have.

When we return, we'll take a look at some of the dangers that video games may pose and what parents should be aware of.

We'll be right back.

- [Narrator] For more than 50 years, WQED has helped spark your child's curiosity and love of learning with trusted resources in literacy, math and science and social wellbeing.

Now we're excited to launch a new institute for parents that will empower them with knowledge and resources to raise their 21st Century children with confidence.

Join our IQ: Smartparent community.

Sign up at wqed.org/smartparent.

Want to learn more about IQ: Smartparent?

Visit us online at wqed.org/smartparent for additional tools and resources.

You can also join the IQ: Smartparent community on Facebook and Twitter and text "smartparent" to 94253 for mobile updates.

(upbeat music) - There are some potential downsides to gaming.

Particularly exposure to violence and video game addiction.

Dr. Brian Primack, Associate Professor of Medicine and Pediatrics at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine has done extensive research in this and we're so glad that you could join us today Dr. Primack.

Thank you for being here.

- And thank you for having me.

- So I'm gonna lay it out there.

As a mom of kids who are playing video games and the concerns that we have about desensitization to violence and aggression and isolation, can gaming hurt our kids?

- There are four major things that we see consistently in the literature and the young man who asked the question earlier, it was a perfectly worded question.

- [Debbie] Five dollars, that cost you five dollars.

- No, he did it all on his own.

The first is aggression and there is at this point, no question that.

I mean I think it's important to just, for perspective, to recognize that the amazing, exciting things that are happening with video games that we have been talking about, does not represent the vast majority of the gaming that is going on right now at this moment in the United States.

- So you're saying the vast majority of gaming today is what?

- Well, it is much, much different.

Much more violent.

First person shooter-type games are the most popular games.

For example, at the time that the seventh Harry Potter movie came out.

- That was popular I heard.

- It was very popular.

The third Star Wars movie came out at the same time, that was very popular.

Halo 3 which is a first person shooter video game came out around that same time and made more money in its first day than either of those other two media.

- Wow.

- So this is a multi-billion dollar business.

It's important for us to realize that that unfortunately still represents the vast majority of what is out there and yes.

- Okay but honestly, is that the vast majority of what kids are playing or is that the vast majority of what Americans are playing?

- Well, both.

- Okay.

- Yes, yes unfortunately.

And those, those exposures definitely are linked with more aggression and this is causal.

The studies are causal.

They are laboratory.

- So what does that mean, causal?

- It just means that we you know, even though early on there definitely were questions about, you know is this that there is violence in society and therefore it's in the media or is it that you know, when people play this they actually do become more aggressive and they really do.

And this, this has been shown to be causal in one direction but not the other.

- And is this like, we tell kids you know, please stay away from drugs because even once can be terribly, terribly dangerous.

Is it the same idea that playing once or playing a little bit is as dangerous as playing a lot?

- No, not at all and I think that that's a very important thing to clarify is that I social science we have these very complex things that we've been studying for years and years and determining causality, that doesn't mean that it's an instantaneous thing.

That doesn't mean it's a drug that you inject and it occurs.

It doesn't mean if right now.

- Okay.

- I start playing a lot of Halo 3 I'm gonna.

- Right, did you play any Halo 3 today?

- I did not today.

- Okay, good.

- That I'm gonna commit some atrocity tonight.

- Okay.

- So absolutely, there are millions of people who play lots of violent games and do not become more aggressive.

However, the research and the overall tendency is definitely in that direction.

But that's not the only thing and you mentioned desensitization which I think is particularly important to.

- Right.

So explain what you mean about desensitization.

- Well what it means is that even if you aren't necessarily becoming more aggressive in your life and more likely to fight something out.

You maybe, as you are splattering you know, people and blowing them away and seeing them disintegrate and getting more and more excited because your points are racking up.

- [Debbie] Well it doesn't sound fun when you say it.

- I know.

That you are developing less compassion for others in society and there's been some very interesting laboratory research experiments that have shown this pretty directly.

- So at the same time, when we're trying to teach kids.

We keep talking about bullying in schools and we're trying to teach kids not only shouldn't you do bullying behavior but when you see someone being bullied, you should have compassion, you should stand up.

You should be you know, the observer who says, "This is a bad idea, don't treat somebody that way."

We're also exposing them to video games that actually make them feel less compassion and notice that less as a problem.

- Again, it is definitely you know, not immediate but it is a tendency and it is I think something important that we need to think about.

- Okay, so parents have a lot of questions about this and we have one in the audience.

We're gonna jump to it right now.

- Hi, my concern is, particularly with the older children.

The lack of ability to interact with different generations.

They're doing really well with their peers and they're socializing well, even if it's a stranger on the game but when it comes to the older generations, we're the ones that say, "You've gotta get off the computer."

Or we don't know what's going on, so we might say, "Hey let's play the board game or read a book or something."

That's, is that gonna change?

- Okay so it sounds like the concern that you're expressing is, is this gonna lock our kids into only being able to talk to their peers?

And being really stuck, that when we play video games, we are not getting any of the multigenerational stuff that might happen if we were out in our neighborhood?

Right and talking to a neighbor while we're playing in the street and things like that and we're definitely gonna come back to the violence aspect of this but this leads more to the isolation question that we worry about as a problem from video games.

I don't know if this is a misconception or if it's a real concern parents should have.

Jesse or Nikki, can either of you speak to that?

- I have, definitely.

One of the things that is fascinating with, one of the things that's happening with all technology is technology is speeding up.

It is causing generations to be shorter and shorter.

What separated the Baby Boomers from the generation before is the Baby Boomers had television.

- Right.

- The Generation X kids had computers.

And then after that we start getting into video games and then we get into phones and then we get into texting and it gets shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter.

- I've certainly had my kids' high school babysitter say, "Well it was different when I was a kid."

- Oh yeah.

- There's maybe six years between them and my eldest child right?

- Exactly and it does true.

It does lead to some communication challenges that I think we're all still figuring out.

- Nikki, in the educational stuff.

- I do see though.

I think that what's really interesting though is I think as you see that even within games, kids understand that there are different games that different, that kids play at different ages.

And you heard the middle schoolers who were interested in making a game for kindergartners.

So even within the context of games, I think it's interesting that there is some kind of relationship that kids can have with kids that are of much different age than their own.

- When I wanna know if a video game is okay for my child and I don't feel really well versed in it, one of the things that I will do is ask a near peer of my child.

- Exactly.

- I'll ask somebody two or three years older than them, is this appropriate for my 10-year-old?

Can you informally rate this for me?

What would you be worried about?

Would you want your little brother or sister playing this game?

And this really empowers that older child to think about it in a critical way and be, and I'm not asking them, "Should you be playing this game?"

Because they're gonna say, "Yeah, totally it's fine."

Right, but I wanna ask them, "Do you think somebody two or three years younger "should be playing this game?"

And give them an opportunity to step up and take that responsible role.

- I think they're very aware of that and I think the more we can educate our kids about the differences in the games and the better off they're gonna be as consumers of games.

- Okay.

Yeah, to be more savvy consumers.

- Exactly.

- Which we want for our kids because we are unlikely to become Amish and so they are gonna have these opportunities for sure.

- Right.

- We have a question from the audience?

- There's been a lot of talk about linking childhood obesity to the inactivity of playing video games.

What are some of the things that you guys could suggest to help get the kids off the couch and get moving to kind of put a stop to all that?

- Besides buying the next really expensive game consoles.

- Besides that.

- That says, "This will get your kids of the couch and moving "and limit obesity."

- Yeah.

- So Dr. Primack, can you talk to us a little bit about what we know about obesity.

- Sure.

- [Debbie] And screen time.

- Sure, well there's no question again that there is a direct link between more screen time and more obesity but that's not just video games.

That is also other screens.

That's televisions and movies and that type of thing.

I do think that the active video games are a very interesting option and I think that you know, they very well may come into their own soon.

These are games like Dance Dance Revolution where you actually, you dance on this game and on this panel and then depending on how well you do that you get certain numbers of points.

- Which would totally be aerobic activity?

100%.

- Exactly, it would be aerobic activity.

Unfortunately the data are mixed.

So.

- Oh no, don't ruin this for us.

Really?

- I'm sorry about this.

But we just published a systematic review in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine this year on this topic and the data are mixed.

Basically there are some studies that show, yes you are burning calories but there are other studies that show that you're actually burning way, way fewer calories than you would if you were actually in gym class doing something active.

- Right.

- So you know, we have questions about this.

- So but - - And I think that there are benefits and drawbacks.

- So it's not just about what game is my child playing but how are they playing it?

And this goes back to what we keep saying.

It's not just what, what's the thing I've allowed to enter my child's brain space.

But how are they interacting with it?

And so to do that, we have to actually watch them play.

Actually be a part of it with them.

Can our kids get addicted to video games?

And I just want to explain that when we talk about addiction in the medical world what we mean is continued use of something despite having negative consequences in real life right?

So somebody who drinks and they get a DUI or they lose a job and they keep drinking.

Even though it's a clear, they get that that happened because they were drinking.

So we talk about that as addiction.

So, are kids having negative consequences from video gaming too much, that they notice and are they continuing to do it anyway?

Are some kids truly addicted?

- It is definitely happening and unfortunately, I don't know why I'm the one who's you know, the downer on all this stuff.

- Right.

- But you know, but there's no question.

- We're gonna throw spitballs at you afterwards.

- I'm on a list serve with other adolescent medicine specialists and people are constantly reporting, people are learning more and more through case studies, through other types of research and the most recent edition of the Psychiatric Diagnostic and Statistic Manual.

- Right.

- The DSM-V which is coming out soon is actually going to have a little bit of a section on media and video game addiction because this is.

- Okay so now you're telling - Becoming an issue.

- me that if my kids plays too much, it might be a psychiatric illness.

This is kind of a downer.

Okay so let's take a step back.

What should I look for?

As a parent, how much is too much?

- Yeah, it's a difficult question.

Now as you said, the American Academy of Pediatrics has actually weighed in on this.

- Right.

- The American Academy of Pediatrics for example says no more than two hours a day of all screen time.

- But they totally lump together all the screens.

- They lump together.

- Right and we talked about that earlier.

- All the screens.

- That not all screen time.

- Yeah it's kind of ridiculous.

- Is the same.

- I agree.

- Yeah and exactly, that you know, and they mean that as I believe a guideline.

Well okay let's start thinking about this and it's sort of an insane guideline in the sense that the total numbers are between eight and 10 and a half hours a day of media time.

- Okay.

- This is the most Kaiser Family Foundation study that the same one that you get the two hours a day.

- Right.

- Of video games from.

And so saying two hours a day is basically saying.

- Less please.

- It's kind of like, less exactly.

- It's saying just less, please play less.

- Saying like fruits and vegetables.

- Right, or watch less.

- But I think it also depends on the context and the you know, various other things.

We've been talking about the fact that not all different, you know not all of these exposures are equal.

Many of them are very creative and very intelligent.

- Right.

- And very you know, valuable.

Whereas others might lead to desensitization and other issues.

And so I think the quality.

- Right.

- Is what we need to think of.

- So I'm gonna liken this as a parent, I'm gonna think about this like I think about nutrition.

Right, that there's not just healthy food and junk food.

There is food that is definitely, definitely, definitely Halo 3 right?

- Yes.

- That's like you know, can I have ice cream and put sprinkles on it and have chocolate sauce on top of that and can I have it for breakfast right?

And then there's, and there's food that is definitely for sure healthy.

- Right.

- You can have as many vegetables as you want right?

And you're creating that incredible creative content that you're collaborating with your little sister and helping her create something that preschoolers will learn from and it's all puppies and rainbows but everything in between we actually have to judge it.

Just like we judge the food that we serve or that we buy for our children.

- Right, we're gonna have to decide what's the content here?

Does it lean towards healthy or lean towards unhealthy?

Is it a sometimes game?

Is it an always game, is it a never game?

- I think that's a really excellent metaphor and I think it makes a lot of sense.

Any tool, a pen is a tool that can be used for good things.

You can write poetry with it and you can also use it to write libel.

- Right and we have to think about video games.

- And ruin somebody's life.

- Screentime in the same way.

- And I think that your metaphor is a very good one.

- So we have one more question that I'm hoping we will take.

No, okay I'm sorry.

We're not gonna have time for that but we are gonna get to something that parents really, really, really wanna hear and that is, in just a moment, I'm gonna ask you of all of the information that has swirled around over our heads today, if there is one thing that you hope parents take away from this and use this week in their family or this week at school.

What is that one tip that you're gonna leave us with?

And Jesse, I'm gonna put you on the hotspot and start with you.

- I think the one tip is play games with you kids.

There's plenty of research out there that shows that this is a healthy thing to do.

This is the way to find out what your kids are interested in.

It's a great way to connect with your kids and to be part of their world and to help guide them and to use these games, even ones that have, kind of scary and dangerous content.

This is a great opportunity to talk about it and see, how do you feel like it's affecting your kids?

Because the kids are entering a world where they need to be able to make these decisions themselves.

- Because pretty soon they're gonna be playing games that they choose in their own world where we're not there to watch what they're playing.

- It's just like, it's just like you talked about with the food.

They need to learn to have a balanced media diet and they have to be able to build those skills to be able to moderate.

- Okay, that makes sense.

- So Nikki, what educational tips should I take away from this as a parent?

- Well absolutely, the skills that kids can learn by playing games as well as creating games are the kinds of skills that in a positive fashion can really only serve them well in life.

They're the kinds of skills that employers are gonna be looking for, that will give them opportunities to enter into higher education and be successful in higher education and I think as parents we should look at those positive skills that.

- [Debbie] It's a great jumping off point.

- Exactly.

- Okay.

Dr. Primack?

- And I completely agree with both of those statements and I'm gonna sort of come off of the balance idea and say that I completely agree with balance.

I think that this is, these are amazing tools that we really should be utilizing as much as we can and that we should be playing as much as we can with our kids.

- Okay.

- But that we should also be playing tag with them.

- Okay.

- In addition to be playing you know, video games with them.

- That sounds like a good dose of family medicine common sense.

I wanna thank all three of you for being here.

The four guys that did such an amazing job on their video game, thanks to them and for the faculty and administrators and families from Elizabeth Forward, from Pay School, for our audience who's joined us here tonight.

I wanna say that as a mom and a doctor, what I've taken away from this conversation is that not all screen time is created equal.

That we need to think, not only about what our kids choose to be involved in or we choose to let them be involved in but also how they use it.

That video games can make our kids more responsible and more resilient and more prepared for the future and that there are ways to avoid that heavy junk food.

So there are also many great resources available to parents on this topic.

We don't have to do this by ourselves.

Common Sense Media is a leader in giving families trusted, independent reviews and ratings of children's media.

Including video games.

That are based on research and child development guidelines.

Their website, commonsensemedia.org, lets parents know what to watch out for like bad language and violence, what to seek out, like positive role models and educational value in tens of thousands of games, apps, movies, music and more.

They offer some great tips.

So let's watch.

- [Narrator] Here are some simple tips to help you make thoughtful choices about your kid's gaming.

First, find the good stuff.

Use your kid's interests and hobbies as a guide for what to buy.

Do some research, look at independent ratings and reviews to find age appropriate games for your kids.

Keep kids' sensitivities and your own values in mind when it comes to ultra-violent games.

And remember, games certainly don't need to be labeled educational to provide learning opportunities.

Second, stay involved.

Gaming time can be a great opportunity to connect with your kids.

If you don't wanna play with them, you can always watch them and ask questions about their favorite characters and scenarios.

Some games have complex ethical choices built into them too about friendship, war, even ancient civilization.

Ask them about why they're making certain decisions and how their in-game behaviors relate to life outside of the game.

Finally, set time limits.

Many game patterns are designed to keep kids playing and have addictive qualities.

Make sure to balance gaming time with other activities and don't hesitate to set firm limits.

- And you can visit wqed.org/smartparent for more information on great games such as PBSkidsplay.org.

Books like "Reality is Broken" by Jane McGonigal.

Videos like "The Parent Show" and "TED Talks" and current events like the National STEM Video Game Challenge.

Thank you very much for joining us on this episode of "IQ: Smartparent".

We hope you'll get involved in our online community and let us know about your experiences and solutions for raising media savvy kids.

We'll see you next time.

(audience applauds) (calm music) - [Narrator] This episode of "IQ: Smartparent" is made possible in part by Chevron.

- [Announcer] Chevron is an integrated energy company whose worldwide business includes the exploration for and the production and transportation of crude oil and natural gas.

Chevron is committed to serving the local communities where its employees live and work.

More info at chevron.com.