>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, OUR PANEL WEIGHS IN ON AMERICA'S CHAOTIC DEPARTURE FROM AFGHANISTAN, A BILL FOR STRONGER PENALTIES FOR VIOLENT PROTESTERS, AND A WIN IN THE FIGHT AGAINST HUNGER.

STAY WITH US!

♪ >> WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THE NUMBER ONE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION THIS WEEK, THE UNITED STATES CHAOTIC DEPARTURE FROM AFGHANISTAN AFTER 20 YEARS IN THE MID EASTERN COUNTRY ON A COUNTERTERRORISM MISSION OVER 2 TRILLION DOLLARS SPENT, MORE THAN 20,000 US SOLDIERS AND OFFICERS WOUNDED AND 2300 DEAD, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN ANNOUNCED ON APRIL 14TH, HE WOULD MAKE GOOD ON THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION'S DEAL WITH THE TALIBAN TO PULL US AND NATO TROOPS OUT OF AFGHANISTAN BY MAY 20TH BEFORE THE 20TH ANNIVERSARY OF 9.11.

THE WORLD HAS BEEN HORRIFIED.

BUT THE SCENES AND STORIES OF BOTH INNOCENT CIVILIANS AND AFGHAN ALLIES TO THE U.S.

ATTEMPTING TO FLEE THE COUNTRY BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY WHILE THE TALIBAN SWIFTLY MOVED IN AND CLAIMED VICTORY AND POSSESSION OVER THE COUNTRY IN A MATTER OF DAYS.

OUR PANEL IS HERE TO GIVE THEIR PERSPECTIVES AND I WANT TO WELCOME LA'MESHIA WHITTINGTON OF ADVANCE CAROLINA POLITICAL ANALYST STEVE RAO AND HAROLD EUSTACHE OF THE FORSYTH COUNTY REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THANKS SO MUCH ALL 3 OF YOU FOR BEING HERE AND THIS MORNING I WANT TO START OFF WITH YOU.

HAROLD.

YOU ARE A U.S. ARMY VETERAN HAVING SERVED WITH HONOR COMBAT MISSIONS IN AFGHANISTAN WITH THE 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION.

WE SURPRISED BY THE DISTURBING SCENES, WE'VE ALL WITNESSED OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS.

>> YEAH, I THINK, I WAS SURPRISED I THINK EVERYBODY'S SURPRISE ON SOME LEVEL THAT THIS WENT SO POORLY.

I AM FORDID NOW.

MOST OF THE GUYS THAT I SERVED WITH TALK WITH OVER THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS ARE FOR GETTING OUT.

AND SO THE ISSUE IS NOT THAT ISSUES KIND OF WHAT HAPPENED.

AND TO SEE IT GO DOWN LIKE THIS IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

I THINK IT WAS FOR A LOT OF US TO GOES RIGHT BACK TO THE GUYS AND WE LOST OVER THERE.

JUST ALL THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED THERE.

I WAS THERE 2009, IT WAS VERY CHAOTIC YEAR, I WAS ON THE PAKISTAN BORDER WITH MY TEAM AND IT WAS A TOUGH YEAR AND WE DID A LOT OF MISSIONS WITH THE AFGHAN ARMY.

AND THEY WERE EMBEDDED WITH US AND IT WAS -- THEY WERE LESS THAN STELLAR.

WITHOUT QUESTION.

>> WELL EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HEARD SO MANY DIFFERENT REPORTS HERE, YOU ARE YOU ARE ACTUALLY OVER THERE.

WHAT CAN YOU SHARE WITH US ABOUT THE TERRAIN ABOUT THE PREPARATION OF THE AFGHAN ARMY THAT TO HELP US UNDERSTAND THE CHALLENGES THAT AMERICANS WERE FACING OVER THERE IN TRYING TO HELP TODAY.

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES THE AMERICAN MILITARY IS GOOD AT TRAINING AMERICANS, AND THE AFGHAN CULTURE IS ABOUT THE MOST OPPOSITE OF A CULTURE YOU COULD HAVE ON EARTH FROM THE UNITED STATES.

SO JUST THE CULTURAL SORT OF DIFFERENCE IN AMERICAN SOLDIERS TRYING TO TEACH AFGHANS, SAYING 'YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO BE IN FORMATION AT 0-8,' AND AFGHANS DON'T HAVE - THEIR PERCEPTION OF HOW TIME IS IMPORTANT VERSUS HOW WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IT'S JUST CULTURALLY DIFFERENT.

EVERY BIT OF TRYING TO TRAIN THEM JUST -- IT SEEMED NOT TO WORK WHEN I WAS THERE AND THERE WAS A TRUST ISSUE THERE.

I MEAN BECAUSE THERE WERE ISSUES WHERE AFGHAN SOLDIERS WERE REPORTED OF KILLING AMERICAN SOLDIERS, SO IN THOSE INSTANCES REALLY ERODED TRUST AND I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW WELL THEY WERE ACTUALLY TRAINED.

I THINK THE OTHER THING IS THAT THE TALIBAN HAD 20 YEARS OF FIGHTING AMERICAN SOLDIERS TO GET BETTER AT ACTUALLY FIGHTING SO THE TALIBAN IS WELL TRAINED WELL EQUIPPED AND WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED.

>> AND THIS WAS UNDERSTOOD LA'MESHIA LET ME ASK YOU YOU ACTUALLY HAD A PERSONAL CONNECTION WITH THE WAR EFFORT IN AFGHANISTAN, TELL US ABOUT THAT CONNECTION AND YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW THE U.S.

PULLED OUT AND ALSO JUST THE DESIRE TO LEAVE.

>> RIGHT SO FIRST AND JUST GIVE AN HONOR TO HAROLD REALLY YOU KNOW JUST YOUR SERVICE, THANK YOU.

AND JUST SAYING THAT IN PLACE OF BEING A FORMER MILITARY SPOUSE OF THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, AND HAVING A SPOUSE THAT WAS ARE DEPLOYED IN AFGHANISTAN.

IT WAS HORRIFIC YOU KNOW FOR MANY OF OUR SPOUSES WE UNDERSTAND THE SACRIFICE, THE INVESTMENT OUR COMMUNITIES HAVE ALWAYS SERVED.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE FAMILY DATING BACK TO THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR, AND SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS ECONOMIC MOBILITY, WE UNDERSTAND IT IS OPPORTUNITY FOR A BETTER LIFE, BUT IT'S ALSO SERVICING OUR COUNTRY AND THAT'S THE HOPE THAT WE ARE PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY AND SO THAT'S WHAT WAS TOLD TO OUR SERVICE MEMBERS AND TO THE SPOUSES WAS THAT IT WAS ABOUT STOPPING THE TALIBAN FROM INVADING THE UNITED STATES AGAIN TO NOT REPEAT 9/11.

BUT THEN IT WAS THE FEAR AND THE HURT OF BEING ON THE PHONE AND HEARING THE SOUND OF MORTARS THAT I THOUGHT WERE FIREWORKS AND MY SPOUSE TRYING TO HIDE THAT.

THE SOUND OF BOMBS WHERE THERE WERE CIVILIANS THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WOULD ACTUALLY EMPLOY CIVILIANS FROM AFGHANISTAN TO WORK ON THE BASE BUT AS HAROLD MENTIONED, THAT TENSION OF MISTRUST BECAUSE OUR GOAL AS A NATION WAS NOT ACTUALLY TO GO IN TO REBUILD THE ECONOMY, IT WAS TO TRAIN THE MILITARY.

SO YOU HAVE FOLKS STILL IN POVERTY THAT JUST CAME OUT OF THE TALIBAN RULE THAT IS STILL WEARY OF ANOTHER FOREIGN INVADER.

THAT'S HOW THAT WE WERE SEEN, AND SO INDIVIDUALS COME ON BASE AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW ENGAGE IN VIOLENCE AND SUICIDE BOMBING AND UNDERSTANDING THAT I REMEMBER MY SPOUSE, WE WENT OFFLINE AND JUST HOPING THAT I DIDN'T GET THAT CALL THAT OTHER SPOUSES IN OUR DIVISION DID GET THAT CALL.

AND SO IT'S JUST UNDERSTANDING OUR PURPOSE WHEN WE WENT WASN'T ABOUT REESTABLISHING THE ECONOMY.

WASN'T REALLY ABOUT SUPPORTING THE FAMILIES IN THAT SENSE, IT WAS STILL FAMILIES LIVING IN POVERTY AND UNDER FEAR OF A NEW INVADER WHILE OUR FOLKS WERE STILL SERVICING OUR COUNTRY IN A WAY THAT WE FELT WAS PATRIOTISM AT THE TIME AND SO SOME OF THAT IS CHANGE BUT YES, IT IS HARD FOR MILITARY SPOUSES AND ON OUR TRUST OF SERVICE MEMBERS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COURAGE AS WELL CERTAINLY HAROLD FOR YOUR PATRIOTISM AND YOUR SERVICE IN THE MILITARY.

STEVE LET ME GET YOU IN ON THIS BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT'S MOVES THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN ROUNDLY CRITICIZED, BUT WE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE CHAOTIC IS THE CRITICISM JUSTIFIED AND WHERE IS IT JUSTIFIED, AND WHERE IS IT NOT?

>> WELL, I THINK THE CRITICISM - FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO THANK HAROLD FOR HIS SERVICE TO THE NATION AND MY LATE FATHER-IN-LAW WAS A U.S. AIR FORCE COLONEL AND HE ALWAYS TOLD ME YOU CAN'T THANK VETERANS ENOUGH, SO I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU SERVE THE NATION AND THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES IN DEFENSE OF OUR COUNTRY.

BUT I'M NOT -- DEBORAH, I WILL SAY THAT I THINK THE CRITICISM I FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO SAY THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD INHERITED A SITUATION WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP AGREED ALREADY IN MAY TO PULL OUT THE TROOPS, SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT A PRESIDENT THAT'S DEALING WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT CHALLENGES UPFRONT FROM COVID TO IT INSURRECTION AND DEMOCRACY AND NOW AFGHANISTAN.

I THINK THE CRITICISM IS WARRANTED NOT ONLY FOR THIS PRESIDENT, BUT FOR THE 3 PRESIDENTS BEFORE HIM ON THE STRATEGY FOR AFGHANISTAN.

IF YOU LOOK AT PRESIDENT BUSH REALLY DIDN'T FOCUS ON THIS, THEN YOU HAD PRESIDENT OBAMA THAT DID TO GET OUT BIN LADEN WHICH WAS THE OBJECTIVE AND HE SUCCEEDED, BUT HE KEPT THE TROOPS THERE.

AND THEN CONTINUED WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND THEN SLOWLY, WE WANTED TO GET OUT.

AND THE QUESTION THOUGH I THINK WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES AND I WANT TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING HAROLD SAID IS THE WHY YOU KNOW WHY ARE WE NOT SUCCEEDING WHEN WE GO IN WITH A FOREIGN PRESENCE, MILITARY PRESENCE, 300,000 COALITION FORCES.

A TRILLION DOLLARS SPENT.

2300 LIVES LOST.

AND I TELL YOU WHY I THINK IT IS AND IT'S A CRITICISM OF JUST US FOREIGN POLICY IS THAT WHEN WE GO INTO A COUNTRY WITHOUT A LEGITIMATE STRONG GOVERNMENT, AND WE'RE NOT ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY TRAIN THESE INDIVIDUALS AND THEY'RE FIGHTING FOR NATIONALISM, THE NATION OF AFGHANISTAN'S IDENTITY HAS BEEN DEFINED ALWAYS BY FOREIGN INVASION.

WHETHER IT WAS THE BRITISH WHETHER IT WAS THE FORMER SOVIET UNION, AND NOW THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND AFGHANISTAN, I'LL END WITH THIS: OVER THE LAST DECADE OR 15 YEARS THEY'VE SEEN IMPROVEMENTS IN THEIR ECONOMY.

THE TREATMENT OF WOMEN ARE MORE INVOLVED IN THE ECONOMY, HEALTH CARE.

BUT STILL JUST NOT SUCCEEDING WITH THE INSTITUTIONS OF DEMOCRACY, THEY'RE JUST NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND I THINK THAT'S THE CHALLENGE IS WE HAVE TO HAVE A STATE THAT PROVIDES SOLID GOVERNMENT AND CAN ELIMINATE CHAOS.

BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE A SOCIETY WHERE YOU CAN HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS IN A FREE SOCIETY, AND I JUST THINK SO - I ACTUALLY NOW EVEN THOUGH WITH RESISTANT WITH A HESITANCY, I THINK THE PRESIDENT DID THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN SOONER OR LATER.

>> RIGHT AND THE CHALLENGE TOO IS JUST UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CULTURE AND THERE'S AN AMERICAN INTEREST THERE'S A CIVILIAN INTEREST TO SEE THINGS HAPPEN THE WAY THAT THEY'RE HAPPENING HERE IN THE U.S. AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE IN ANOTHER NATION.

I WANT TO TURN TO THIS IDEA OF TERRORISM BECAUSE OF THE REASON WHY WE WERE THERE IS TO MAKE AMERICA SAFER BY TRYING TO CONTAIN TERRORISM IN ANOTHER NATION.

BUT HERE WE HAVE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY THE ISSUE OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM, IT PLAYED OUT JUST YESTERDAY IN FRONT OF THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS AS A NORTH CAROLINIAN THREATENED THE AREA BY SAYING THAT HE HAD BOMBS.

HE MADE IT OUT ALIVE.

BUT I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS I'LL OPEN UP WITH YOU STEVE AGAIN ON WHERE IS OUR CONCERN WITH REGARD TO DOMESTIC TERRORISM AND WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT HERE IN OUR OWN NATION.

>> WELL, I MEAN THIS IS A CHALLENGE THAT WE'VE CONTINUED TO SEE IN TERMS OF JUST WEAPONS OUT THERE, PEOPLE ARE MANUFACTURING THEIR OWN BOMBS, YOU KNOW WE HAVE THE INSURRECTION ON THE CAPITOL WHERE YOU KNOW PROPERTY WAS BEING DAMAGED AND RANSACKED AND I'VE READ READ STUDIES THAT DOMESTIC TERRORISM IS ACTUALLY THE WORST THREAT TO OUR OWN SECURITY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, SO YOU KNOW WE'VE ACTUALLY WORKED ON, SECRETARY OF STATE BLINKEN HAS CONFIRMED SAYS THAT WE ARE PREPARED FOR TERRORIST ATTACKS FROM ABROAD THAT WE'RE BETTER PREPARED THAN WE WERE 9.11, AND THE DATA INTELLIGENCE SHOWS THAT, BUT I TRULY BELIEVE THAT WE ARE NOT PREPARED FOR TERRORISM HERE.

I MEAN THERE'S MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES IN TERMS OF WHY PEOPLE ARE DOING THIS.

WHY ARE GUNS AND WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION, SEMI-AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUNS GETTING IN THE HANDS OF THESE FOLKS?

>> LET ME TAKE OFF ON THAT AND GET A QUESTION TO YOU HAROLD ARE WE IN JEOPARDY HERE IN OUR NATION WITH REGARD TO DOMESTIC PROTECTION AND PROTECTING OURSELVES AGAINST DOMESTIC TERRORISTS?

HOW ARE WE DOING?

>> WELL, I MEAN DOMESTIC TERRORISM HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE IN THIS COUNTRY AND I THINK IT OBVIOUSLY STILL IS BUT I ALSO THINK THE ISSUE IS WHAT DO WE DEFINE AS TERRORISM AND THAT THAT BECOMES A SORT OF POLITICAL QUESTION BECAUSE IT BECOMES THIS POLITICAL FOOTBALL WHERE WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING TO SCORE POLITICAL POINTS.

AND I THINK THAT'S UNFORTUNATE WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS EVEN A PERSON YESTERDAY THAT HAD THIS BOMB THREAT THERE SAYING, WELL HE HAD SOME POSTS THAT MAY HAVE SHOWN HE VOTED FOR TRUMP -- WHAT IS THAT?

HALF THE COUNTRY VOTED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

I JUST THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT THAT'S WHERE WE LOOK AT STUFF.

ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU KNOW I THINK >> BUT HE WAS DOWN THERE THREATENING.

HE WAS ACTUALLY IN THE ACT OF THREATENING.

>> THE COUNTRY HAS TO BE VIGILANT ON ANYBODY THAT MAKES A THREAT TO ANYONE, ANY OF OUR CITIZENS, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR POLITICAL AFFILIATION IS OR ISN'T, DOESN'T MATTER.

SO YES, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE WE STAY VIGILANT THERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY THANK YOU HAROLD.

>> YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE IN OUR OWN NATION AND THE NORTH CAROLINA SENATE COULD SOON VOTE ON A BILL TO IMPOSE TOUGHER PENALTIES ON VIOLENT PROTESTERS DURING DEMONSTRATIONS.

LEGISLATORS SAY HOUSE BILL 8.05 WOULD PROTECT BUSINESSES FROM THE KIND OF DESTRUCTION THAT OCCURRED BACK IN THE SUMMER OF 2020 DURING THE PROTESTS IN THE AFTERMATH OF GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER.

OTHERS ARE CONCERNED THAT THIS IS AN IMPOSITION ON FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

LET ME START OFF WITH YOU LA, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PROS AND CONS OF THIS LEGISLATION IF IT GOES THROUGH.

>> SURE SO I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEMS.

SO LET'S BE VERY FRANK.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DOMESTIC TERRORISM, WE TALK ABOUT THE STATE OF OUR NATION.

WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED AND OCCURRED IN OUR CAPITAL, AT THE TOP OF THIS YEAR, THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF A RIOT.

DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW AND IT IS PROFOUNDLY GOP, I WOULD JUST BE FRANK.

LAWMAKERS IN 34 STATES HAVE INTRODUCED 81 ANTI-PROTEST BILLS, AND MORE THAN 400 BILLS WITH PROVISIONS THAT RESTRICT VOTING ACCESS HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED IN 49 STATES.

SO 400 ANTI-VOTER BILLS IN 49 STATES SO NORTH CAROLINA'S 8.05 IS JUST PART OF THE STRATEGIC ATTACK ON CIVIL LIBERTIES, ON OUR RIGHT TO PROTEST, RIGHT TO ASSEMBLE.

THIS LEGISLATION, LET'S BE VERY CLEAR THERE ARE ALREADY LAWS IN PLACE THAT PROTECT PROPERTY DAMAGE.

THIS DOES NOT EXPAND THAT PROTECTION OF PROPERTY.

SO THEN THAT'S GASLIGHTING AND A COMPLETE SMOKE AND MIRRORS TO SAY, 'OH THIS PROTECTS AGAINST INCIDENTS OF DAMAGE AGAINST 'BODILY HARM AND DAMAGE TO PROPERTY' IF THE LAW ALREADY EXISTS.

I'M GOING TO PUT A FEW ELEMENTS SO THAT WE CAN REALLY SEE WHAT 8.05 IS ABOUT.

ONE, IT INCREASES PROTESTING TO A FELONY LEVEL THAT WOULD ACTUALLY REQUIRE 16 AND 17 YEAR-OLDS IF THEY ARE CHARGED TO GO INTO ADULT COURT, FOR GUESS WHAT?

A FELONY CONVICTION THAT IF HE'S -- NOT JUST TO VOTE IF THEY'RE CONVICTED, THAT ALSO ELIMINATES THE ABILITY FOR PELL GRANTS, EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND THE LIKE.

THIS INCREASES FELONIES FOR OUR CHILDREN AND THE LANGUAGE RIOT THIS BILL IS SIMPLY TOO VAGUE.

IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T DEFINE THE ACTIVITIES THAT WILL CONSIST OF A RIOT.

IT GIVES THE DISCRETION AND THE AUTHORITY TO LAW ENFORCEMENT ON THE GROUND TO DETERMINE WHAT THEY SEE FIT AS A RIOT AS LONG AS IT'S 3 OR MORE PEOPLE THAT MEANS THAT INDIVIDUAL DOESN'T HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HARM TO PROPERTY, THEY CAN BE IN PROXIMITY IT CAN BE OUT PAST CURFEW IT'S TOO VAGUE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE SEE IN THE WAKE OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THE MURDERS OF BRIONNA TAYLOR GEORGE FLOYD, STATE-SANCTIONED VIOLENCE, OUR COMMUNITIES ALREADY DON'T TRUST BECAUSE OF STATE SANCTIONED VIOLENCE AND SO THIS BILL, ABSOLUTE PROBLEM FOR OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> HAROLD YOU'RE A LAWYER IS THE LANGUAGE TOO VAGUE AT THIS POINT?

CAN THEY TAMP IT DOWN NARROW THINGS DOWN?

>> NO I THINK THE LANGUAGE IS GREAT.

I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH SOME OF THE AUTHORS OF THIS BILL YESTERDAY.

AND THERE WAS A LOT OF EFFORT MADE IN THIS BILL WITH LAWYERS TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS BILL WAS DONE RIGHT.

I THINK IT IS DONE RIGHT.

AND YOU KNOW I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE WHOLE IT'S AN ANTI-PROTEST BILL.

THIS IS AGAINST RIOTING, AGAINST VIOLENCE.

WE SAW A BILLION DOLLARS IN DAMAGE NATIONALLY, AND DAMAGE ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY FROM THESE RIOTS.

NOTHING WRONG WITH PROTESTS.

BUT FROM RIOTS.

AND THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL THING TO SAY THIS WOULD BE WHAT HAPPENED IN CHARLOTTESVILLE WOULD BE THE SAME AS YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN PORTLAND.

AND IT'S JUST ANY SORT OF RIOTING AND DAMAGE IT'S IMPORTANT TO PROTECT BUSINESS OWNERS, MANY MINORITY SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHO ARE AFFECTED BY RIOTING.

THIS PROTECTS THEM.

SO TO ME THIS BILL IS WRITTEN CORRECTLY, AND I THINK THIS BILL ACTUALLY IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN SOME OF THE OTHER BILLS IN OTHER STATES.

I THINK IT'S WRITTEN MORE PRECISELY.

I DO THINK SOME OF THE OTHER STATES DO HAVE SOME ISSUES OF VAGUENESS BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE HERE.

>> DO YOU THINK LA THAT WHAT HAROLD HAS SAID IN TERMS OF HOW CAREFUL THE LEGISLATORS HAVE BEEN IN CRAFTING THIS WOULD BE OF ANY COMFORT TO THOSE WHO YOU CERTAINLY HAVE WORKED SIDE BY SIDE WITH IN SOME OF THE PROTEST ACTIVITY?

>> ABSOLUTELY AND SO AS A MEMBER OF THE NORTH CAROLINA BLACK AND BROWN POLICY NETWORK ACLU AND OTHER REALLY LIKE ON THE GROUND GROUPS SUCH AS RAMPS AND EMANCIPATE NC, IT REALLY IMPACTS OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES PEOPLE IN ELIZABETH CITY HAS BEEN PROTESTING FOR A 100 DAYS AND NO DAMAGE TO PROPERTY OR BODILY HARM.

WE DIDN'T SEE THIS LEGISLATION AND I'M QUOTING KERWIN PITMAN AND SOME OTHER GROUPS ON THE GROUND THAT SAID WE DIDN'T SEE THIS TYPE OF LEGISLATION WHEN INDIVIDUALS TOOK TO THE STREET AFTER A DUKE GAME, OR AFTER UNC CHAPEL HILL GAME.

WE ONLY SAW THIS LEGISLATION AFTER UPRISINGS AND PROTESTS, AND HERE'S THE THING THE RIOT LANGUAGE PLAIN AND SIMPLE, WE'VE BEEN ENGAGED, HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH LEGISLATORS AROUND THIS.

HERE'S PART OF THE PROBLEM: THE DISCRETION OF WRITING BEING VAGUE MEANS THAT CHURCHES WHO ARE MARCHING TO THE POLLS, GUESS WHAT?

THE WRONG GOVERNING LAW ENFORCEMENT BODY ON THE GROUND CAN DEEM THAT A RIOT.

DIVINE NINE, FRATERNITIES SORORITIES WHO ARE STROLLING TO THE POLLS THAT COULD BE DEEMED A RIOT.

NOW SPORTING GAMES AND FOLKS WHO TO TAKE TO THE STREETS THAT CAN BE DEEMED A RIOT.

WHAT IS THE LIMIT?

AND AT THIS POINT IT IS AN ANTI-PROTEST AND ANTI-VOTER BILL, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE FACT REMAINS IT IMPACTS AND IMPEDES AND TAKES OUR ABILITY TO ASSEMBLE AND UNIFY AND PROTEST WHICH IS OUR HISTORICAL RIGHT.

OUR ANCESTORS AND ELDERS HAVE DONE THIS IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS.

THAT'S HOW WE GAIN OUR CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION AND OUR VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND THAT IS TAMPERING ON OUR ABILITY TO HAVE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO SPEAK ASSEMBLE AND TO BE WITH ONE ANOTHER.

>> WELL STEVE CONSIDERING THE SPEED WITH WHICH THIS LEGISLATION IS MOVING THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE, WHAT ARE YOUR GUESSES ABOUT ITS GETTING PASSED WITHIN THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS BECAUSE THE HOUSE HAS ALREADY PASSED THIS BILL AND IT'S WITH THE SENATE RIGHT NOW.

>> YEAH, WELL I THINK THERE IS DEMOCRATIC BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THIS SO I DO THINK IT'S GOING TO PASS, AND I LOOK I AGREE WITH WHAT HAROLD SAID AND WITH WHAT LA'MESHIA SAID, I MEAN FIRST OF ALL I THINK THAT, I BELIEVE THAT THE GOOD THING ABOUT THE BILL IS WE DEFINITELY WANT TO PROHIBIT DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS BUT I THINK THOSE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

I THINK MY IDEA WOULD BE RATHER THAN RUSHING A BILL THROUGH LIKE THIS, I WOULD RATHER US SEE FIRST, IDENTIFY THE REASONS PEOPLE ARE PROTESTING.

IN TERMS OF RACISM, DISENFRANCHISED COMMUNITIES AND MAKE SURE YES THAT WHEN PEOPLE PROTEST, IT'S PEACEFUL PROTEST.

AND TO LET ANY CITY KNOW THAT IF YOU'RE COMING IN AND YOU'RE BASHING GLASS IN A RESTAURANT, OR DAMAGING PROPERTY OR USING SOMETHING YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING THAT YOU SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THAT A LOT OF THE PROTESTERS HAD BEEN PEACEFUL AND IT'S BEEN OUTSIDERS WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COME IN AND INFLICT DAMAGE AND THERE WAS JUST REALLY TERRIBLE DAMAGE THAT OCCURRED IN MANY CITIES IN NORTH CAROLINA SO NOBODY WANTS THAT SMALL BUSINESSES, BLACK OWNED AS WELL WERE DAMAGED IN THE PROCESS SO IT'S FIGURING OUT HOW DO WE PROTECT THESE BUSINESSES BUT ALSO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THOSE WHO WISH TO PROTEST AND UNDERSTAND AND NOT MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE DOWN THERE PROTESTING THAT THEY'RE INFLICTING VIOLENCE AS WELL.

>> RIGHT.

>> STARTING IN OCTOBER, THERE WILL HOPEFULLY BE FEWER FAMILIES HUNGRY IN AMERICA.

PRESIDENT BIDEN RECENTLY APPROVED THE BIGGEST FOOD STAMP INCREASE SINCE THE PROGRAM BEGAN THE INCREASE BRINGS TO 79 BILLION DOLLARS THE ANNUAL SPEND FOR THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM SNAP.

THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE SUSTAINABILITY OF THE INCREASE AND I WANT TO OPEN UP WITH YOU LA HOW MANY AMERICANS YOU THINK WILL BE IMPACTED BY THIS MOVE AND HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE WILL IT REALLY MAKE?

>> SURE SO SNAP ALREADY ASSISTS IN FEEDING MORE THAN 42 MILLION AMERICANS.

SO THIS BENEFIT INCREASE IS THE BIGGEST IN THE PROGRAM'S 60 YEAR HISTORY.

IT WILL BE A 30% PERMANENT INCREASE AND RESOURCES TO PURCHASE FOOD FOR THOSE 40 PLUS MILLION AMERICANS.

SO THE 42 MILLION, THEY JUST HAVE AN EXPANSION OF ASSISTANCE RESOURCE WISE TO BE ABLE TO PURCHASE FOOD.

WE SAW IN THE WAKE OF THE PANDEMIC HISTORIC JOB CLOSURES AND FOOD BANKS AND PANTRIES WERE ACTUALLY TO MAX.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH FOOD TO ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE.

IN ADDITION TO SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN, SO THIS EXPANSION WILL NOT ONLY HELP FOLKS IN THE PANDEMIC BUT WE WERE ALSO ALREADY IN A DEFICIT BEFORE PANDEMIC HUNGER AND CHILD HUNGER WAS AN EXTREME PROBLEM.

IN THE UNITED STATES THERE WAS AN ESTIMATED 17 MILLION CHILDREN STRUGGLING WITH HUNGER.

THAT'S 6 MILLION BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, RIGHT?

6 MILLION BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE INCREASE IN HUNGER WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HUNGER THAT WAS BEFORE PANDEMIC, THIS IS BECAUSE GUESS WHAT?

GENTRIFICATION, ZONING LAWS, FOOD INSECURITY, FOOD DESERTS, THESE WERE ECONOMIC DEPRAVITIES THAT FACED EVERYDAY COMMUNITIES BEFORE PANDEMIC SO GUESS WHAT, THE EXPANSION OF SNAP IS BEHIND TIMES, BUT IT IS ON TIME, BECAUSE OUR FOLKS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE.

>> AND WE'LL BE HELPING ONE IN 8 AMERICANS.

HAROLD HOW MUCH OF A CONCERN IS SUSTAINABILITY FOR THE PROGRAM YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IT'S A BIG CONCERN.

I THINK THE ISSUE IS THIS IS THE TYPE OF PROGRAM TO ME THAT'S PUSHING WHAT I WOULD SAY IS A SOCIALIST AGENDA BY THE LEFT TO GO TOWARD GUARANTEED INCOME.

AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK THIS IS GOING TOWARD.

I THINK THE SUSTAINABILITY ISSUE IS BECAUSE THIS WASN'T DONE THROUGH CONGRESS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE LARGEST -- THE LARGEST INCREASE IN ONE OF THE LARGEST SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE AND IT'S NOT DONE THROUGH CONGRESS IS IT'S BASICALLY DONE BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ESSENTIALLY ADJUSTING HOW THEY LOOK AT WHAT AMERICANS CAN AFFORD FOR FOOD, BUT WHAT THAT DOES IS IT INCREASES THE PROGRAM BY BY DOING THAT.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE ISSUE IS GOING TO BE OF OF YOU KNOW MAKING THESE MASSIVE INCREASES IN THESE TYPES OF SOCIAL PROGRAMS WITHOUT CONGRESS AND WITHOUT THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE, AND THE REASON THEY DIDN'T WANT THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE DON'T WANT GUARANTEE INCOME FROM GOVERNMENT ESSENTIALLY GOING OUT THROUGH VARIOUS DIFFERENT FORMS THAT ARE GUISED AS GOOD, BUT ULTIMATELY WILL BE TO OUR PERIL I THINK.

>> SO THE GUARANTEED INCOME THAT THIS INCREASE SHOULD HAVE HAD GONE TO A GUARANTEED INCOME YOU'RE SAYING?

>> NO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THIS IS A FORM OF GUARANTEED INCOME.

BECAUSE IT'S A PERMANENT INCREASE.

I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO PUSH THESE TYPES OF GUARANTEED INCOMES BE IT THE NEW CHILD TAX CREDIT OR OTHER TYPES OF GUARANTEED INCOME, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THIS IS GOING I THINK IT'S ULTIMATELY GOING TO COST WAY TOO MUCH MONEY AND SHOULD BE DONE THROUGH CONGRESS EITHER WAY.

>> THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING STEVE, YOU KNOW WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE ABILITY FOR THIS PROGRAM TO REALLY ADDRESS THE NUTRITION ASPECT, NOT SO MUCH OF JUST AFFORDABILITY OF FOOD BUT ADDRESSING NUTRITION.

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT AND I MEAN I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY OUT THERE RIGHT NOW IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC, PEOPLE ARE BEING EVICTED FROM THEIR HOMES AND OUR KIDS HAVE JUST REALLY BEEN STRUGGLING PARTICULARLY LOW INCOME FAMILIES.

SO I THINK THIS INCREASE IN FUNDING COULD HELP INVEST IN YOU KNOW NUTRITION FOR THE KIDS.

FOOD PRICES ARE RISING AND I DO AGREE WITH HAROLD, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE A GUARANTEED INCOME, BUT I THINK WE ALSO HAVE TO GET PEOPLE WORKING AND GET THEM JOBS AND SO THAT THEY CAN WORK INVEST IN EDUCATION GET THEM OUT OF THESE ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THEY'RE HAVING TO DEPEND ON FOOD STAMPS TO PURCHASE FOOD.

EVEN $169 IT'S GONE UP 25% FROM 36 PER PERSON TO 169, YOU KNOW AND I KNOW I SPEND A LOT MORE ON GROCERIES SOMETIMES, EVEN THOUGH I GET THINGS I SHOULDN'T GET ICE CREAM AND THINGS THAT I WANT, BUT THE THING IS THAT IT'S JUST NUTRITION IS IMPORTANT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF MORE EXPENSIVE, HEALTHIER FOODS LA, LET ME GIVE YOU THE LAST 60 SECONDS.

>> SURE SO WE TALK ABOUT ACCESS TO HEALTHY FOODS, IN NORTH CAROLINA 80 OUT OF 100 OF OUR TOTAL COUNTIES ARE RURAL.

OUT OF THOSE 80 WE HAVE GUESS WHAT?

80 OUT OF 100 COUNTIES ARE CONSIDERED FOOD DESERTS.

THAT MEANS THE MAJORITY OF OUR POPULATION, OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES, LIVE AT LEAST ONE TO 10 MILES AWAY FROM A GROCERY STORE AND DON'T HAVE A VEHICLE.

SO WHERE'S OUR ACCESS TO HEALTHY FOOD?

IT'S CONVENIENCE STORES AND CORNER STORES, THAT HAS INCREASED THE RATES OF DIABETES HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INCREASING SNAP AND THE BENEFIT IT'S ACTUALLY AROUND A $1.60 $1.69 INCREASE A DAY AND SO AND I DON'T CONSIDER THAT A PAYCHECK, THAT'S AN INCREASE TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD THAT GAS.

MAYBE, MAYBE A GALLON AT THESE PRICES OF INFLATION GUESS WHAT, INCREASING SNAP AT THIS JUNCTURE IS A PASS TO INCREASE ESPECIALLY WHEN THE EVALUATION OF HEALTHY FOODS HASN'T BEEN DONE SINCE 1975.

IT IS 2021.

SO WE'RE WAY BEHIND IN PROVIDING NOT JUST THE COST OF LIVING FOR FOLKS WHO ARE WORKING EVERY SINGLE DAY TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE, BUT TO MAKE SURE THAT FOOD IS ACTUALLY HEALTHY FOR THEIR COMMUNITIES SO THEIR HEALTH DISPARITIES ARE EXACERBATING IN A PANDEMIC WHEN BARELY ANYONE HAS HEALTH INSURANCE THAT ARE ACTUALLY LOW INCOME WORKING CLASS FOLKS.

>> LA'MESHIA WHITTINGTON STEVE RAO HAROLD EUSTACE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

>> THANK YOU DEBORAH.

>> I WANT TO THANK ALL OF TODAY'S GUESTS.

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