GEOFF BENNETT: Well, look, this chaos has a real impact, Lisa, and I know you have spoken to someone who has a unique perspective on that.

Tell us about it.

LISA DESJARDINS: I spoke earlier this week to Patrick McHenry, congressman of North Carolina.

He's been here 20 years and he is retiring.

He knows all about this kind of chaos.

Remember, he was the one who stepped in as acting speaker when Kevin McCarthy was ousted.

And that was, again, also over fiscal discontent by some Republicans.

As an example, earlier this week, he told me he thought Speaker Johnson had no problems.

Today, I talked to him and he indicated things may have changed.

I talked to him about Congress, about the Republican Party, and my first question to him was about this fiscal mess that we have right here now and why is it that Congress can't do basic things?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY (R-NC): Frankly, we're in a situation where basic governance that is like turning the light switch on in the morning is complicated, and I think speaks to the dysfunction within our agencies of government between the branches and a lack of muscle memory on making these normal things happen, so really complicated.

And I don't see it quickly changing until we have systemic reform for how we fund the government.

LISA DESJARDINS: In general, do you think Congress is broken, or no?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: Well, I think Congress is fundamentally a great place to get the people's business done.

I think we're at low ebb of functionality.

And I think we're on the edge of really active legislating next Congress.

I think the reform we need to -- is to once again allow members of the House to be here in D.C. with their families.

The best relationships I have from across the aisle are because of my kids and because of my wife and those normal interactions we have.

LISA DESJARDINS: The House Republican dysfunction we have seen this week is not new, as McHenry knows too well.

All right, now, you probably know what I'm going to show you, but I can't resist the opportunity.

So, the moment.

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: Oh, yes.

LISA DESJARDINS: Last fall, a small group of rebels reacting to spending and debt deals then-Speaker Kevin McCarthy negotiated sparked near-fights on the floor and ousted him.

McHenry was named as acting speaker.

The moment he took the gavel became iconic.

Remember this, though?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: 12-A of Rule 1, the chair declares the House and recess subject to the call of the chair.

It's been played a lot.

LISA DESJARDINS: What were you thinking then and how significant does that feel now looking back on it?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: It's like I'm looking at someone else.

Those minutes were like an out-of-body experience for me.

First, my friend was just deposed from the speaker show.

We had a Republican side with all the Democratic members.

I understand why the Democrats voted the way they do, but the eight selfish Republicans, that was a particular -- that really built anger, the wellspring of anger, which was the representation with the gavel.

LISA DESJARDINS: You still think you still feel something?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: Yes, I still feel it.

And I'm trying to get to that moment and trying to put words to that moment.

But it was anger, anger at the situation, anger what these selfish eight Republicans dead to a speaker who had only been successful.

Every engagement we had, for opening day, through all those grueling votes, to the negotiation, the debt ceiling and the deficit reduction and reforms we got attached to the debt ceiling, the success in passing the government funding bill.

LISA DESJARDINS: And those were hard lifts, all of them.

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: Those were huge lifts for Speaker McCarthy.

And for him to be successful, and to be punished for that success, it was not fitting.

I didn't have any other way to put words to it.

I didn't want to be in that position.

I didn't want the House to be in this position.

And I thought this is the dumbest moment for the House that I have experienced.

And there have been some pretty dumb moments.

LISA DESJARDINS: President-elect Trump, himself and some of his allies are putting a lot of pressure on senators right now to confirm his nominees.

And there's a real conversation on the Senate side that you need to go along with what president-elect Trump wants.

Are you concerned?

There's been a clear shift from congressional to executive power over the course of several presidencies.

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: Well, it's Congress' will to weaken Congress' power, and they do so in a very shortsighted way if we hand over power.

But in the case of the next president, he comes in with wide popularity in a significantly different position than eight years ago, with deep support among the Republican Party and with the American electorate.

I think there's a misunderstanding of President Trump.

He will listen to people that tell him hard things.

He does.

And so you have people that don't understand him and try to sort of be sycophants for him.

He doesn't like that.

But to stand up for the rightful powers of the Congress, that should be a bipartisan issue, and that should be the case no matter who the president is.

LISA DESJARDINS: What do Republicans stand for right now?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: A strong economy and traditional American ways of life.

And is there a tinge of populism that's part of this stew?

Yes, that's the case.

LISA DESJARDINS: You are chairman of a powerful committee.

Next session, 17 standing committees, House Republicans are leading them, and they will all be led by men.

Does that matter that no women will be chairing committees next Congress?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: You do need a diverse set of inputs.

That was what the founding fathers intended for the nature of the House.

And for us to have no women chairs of committees is a huge mistake and really an unfortunate thing, because we have powerful, smart, capable, tenacious Republican women that are capable of leading big committees and doing major things.

That doesn't -- it's not... LISA DESJARDINS: So what's going on here?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: It's an unfortunate set of things, set of circumstances.

I'm leaving Congress.

So... LISA DESJARDINS: So, you can tell me, yes.

Put it out there.

(CROSSTALK) LISA DESJARDINS: Is there still sexism within the Republican Party that needs to be dealt with?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: We have a process through the Steering Committee.

The Steering Committee produced these results, and that is for Republican members that made these decisions to answer for.

LISA DESJARDINS: You entered Congress at the ripe old age of 29.

How changed do you feel as a person?

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: Oh, I love this institution.

I leave it with no remorse, no regret, but just gratitude, enormous gratitude.

To be hitched to this great thing of the United States and what it means, not just to us here at home, but what it means around the globe, to be hitched to that even for a moment, to serve our government, to serve our country, it's just been a great gift.

LISA DESJARDINS: The bow ties happened here too.

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: They did.

They did.

So I get to be quirky and weird, and I have had a great run and really enjoyed everything about it.

LISA DESJARDINS: Congressman Patrick McHenry, thank you so much for talking with me.

REP. PATRICK MCHENRY: Thank you, Lisa.