For more on the direction of Israel's war in Gaza,## as well as the splits within the Israeli# war cabi distinguished fellow at the Washington Institute# for Near East Policy, former journalist was a senior adviser for Israeli-Palestinian# negotiations during the Obama administration.

David Makovsky, thanks very much.

Welcome back.

DAVID MAKOVSKY, Senior Fellow, NICK As we just sai to hostages.

It appears that Netanyahu and# Defense Minister Yoav Gall Benny Gantz on the other.

What's# behind that and how significant is it?

DAVID MAKOVSKY: Look, I think it's very important.

It's one of the tw the Netanyahu/Gallant school says the way# to get the hostages is to put more military## pressure in this war.

The more you dig under# the tunnels in Khan Yunis and Southern Gaza,## where it is believed that Mohammed# Deif and Yahya Sinwar are located... (CROSSTALK) NICK S you have a chance of securing their release.

The other school is of the centrists,# who happen to be two military chiefs of staff, pride themselves on# their pragmatism, Benny Gantz, you mentioned,## another, Gadi Eisenkot, who lost# his son, by the way, in this war.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes.

Yes.

have all the time in the world, and the best way# to secure the release is to cut a deal with Egypt,## Qatar, whoever that may be.

And then, if# that involves some sort of extended pause,## so be it.

You could always renew# hostilities at a later time,## but in terms of what to prioritize, hostages or# the war, the priority should go to the hostages.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The second big# division within the war cabinet,## as you mentioned, is between Netanyahu# and Gallant, the defense minister.

Yesterday, Gallant said that Palestinians# will govern Gaza in the future,## something Netanyahu has not said.

And# then he took a not-so-subtle swipe.## He said -- quote -- "Political indecision may# harm the progress of the milita What's he saying?

DAVID MAKO we can't just kick the can down the road# about what does postwar look like?

Let's## be real.

The Palestinian Authority should# come back.

They governed Gaza from 94 to## 2007 until Hamas kind of threw them off# the rooftops in 2007 until this war.

(CROSSTALK) NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes.

however, is very fearful that Gantz and# Eisenkot, the centrists that enlarged his## government after the October 7 atrocities, that# they will walk, that they will go for elections,## and that he will be stuck with the# people holding the balance of power.

Guess who?

The hard right, and Mr.# Smotrich, who is the fin Ben-Gvir, who is the police minister and the like.

So he doesn't seem to want to offend those# two, because his government depends on these two guys.

So# he won't say the words P.A.

He won't say the## words Palestinian Authority.

He won't say# the word Palestinian.

He will just say,## let's see what the war looks like afterwards.# Right now, NICK SCHIFRIN: But this isn't only about# politics, David, as you know, right?

This# is life and death for many people.

This is the# fate o DAVID MAKOVSKY: Of course.

Of course.

I think Are you going to allow people to go back to# their homes in Northern Gaza?

You wanted to## keep Palestinians from being killed.

You told# the million people go to the south.

OK, now you## have almost won the north, not yet, but almost.

Do# you have a plan to bring them back to their homes?

And, if so, who's going to run public orders,# civilian services, basic, basic services.

And so## I think what Gallant and Halevi are trying to tell# Netanyahu is, hey, we can't just kick the can down## the road.

There are going to be some decisions# we have to make sooner, rather than later.

NICK SCHIFRIN: There is some genuine# frustration in the Biden administration## with Netanyahu himself.

Is Netanyahu listening?

DAVID MAKOVSKY: Not sure.

I mean back.

Every meeting starts with, thank you, Joe# Biden, that it's very personal there, almost as if## he's like the father of the country.

He's viewed# as someone who really cares about their security.

And I think that's very important.# But somehow that public support## is not translated when he says, OK,# Bibi, this is what I want you to do,## which is there's certain tax transfers that you# owe the Palestinian Authority and the West Bank.

Here, I think Netanyahu is more concerned# about political calculations, about the hard## right.

And I think the president is right# to press the point with the prime minister.

NICK SCHIFRIN: As you were saying to me# earlier, whenever President Biden or any## U.S. official brings up two-state solution# right now, it lands like a lead Do you think, quickly, there is# a different way to talk about## the two-state solution that the U.S. could find?

DAVID MAKOVSKY: When we in America# fo r our lives, we want something# that gives dignity to both sides.

And I still think it's the right approach.# But a lot of us, and in the admini they assume that Palestinian state is# going to look like Costa Rica.

Yet,## when the Israelis hear two states, they say,# look, look at the industrial capacity Hamas was## able to do, by the way, without smuggling# in things, their own industrial capacity.

They see that state as looking more like North# Korea.

And, therefore, we need to somehow talk## about what sort of two-state solution we're# talking about, and not just what the borders## are going to be like.

And I myself have worked on# this issue.

But how are we going to enforce it?

Yes, we say the word demilitarized, but# the Israelis are convinced that Hamas will## always outmuscle a more pragmatic Palestinian# leadership to take it in a very differen more militant direction.

And we have got to# feel -- there's got to be a way to talk about## this in a way that we're talking about the# same sort of two states, because, right now,## us in the U.S. and them in Israel,# we're just talking past each other.

NICK SCHIFRIN: David Makovsky,# always a pleasure.

Thanks so much.

DAVID MAKOVSKY: Thank you very much for having me