>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE  CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE  LEGISLATIVE SESSION ENDS IN A FLURRY OF ACTIVITY AND FIERY  DEBATE.

>> Legislator: I AM DISGUSTED  BY THE WAY SHE WAS TREATED A FEW MOMENTS AGO.

THE BULLYING, THE ATTACKS.

>> Gene: PLUS THE PROMISE OF A  SPECIAL SESSION LOOMS AS THE  STATE MOVES CLOSER TO LEGALIZING CANNABIS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

IT IS CALLED A REGULAR SESSION  BUT THIS ONE WAS ANYTHING BUT A NORMAL OCCURRENCE FOR  LAWMAKERS.

WE'LL RUN DOWN KEY LEGISLATION  AND TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE LEFTWARD SWING OF THE  LEGISLATURE AND WE'LL CHECK OUT THE FATE OF GOOD  GOVERNMENT LEGISLATION.

AND WE'LL ASK THE LINE TO LOOK  AT THE EXPERIENCE OF WOMEN IN THE LEGISLATURE AS A LATE  NIGHT BLOWUP FORCED SENATORS TO RECESS AND TAKE A DEEP  BREATH.

WE ARE GOING LOOK AT WHERE NEW  MEXICO'S CANNABIS LEGISLATION FITS INTO THE NATIONAL PICTURE  AND WE SIT DOWN WITH THE TWO MEN AT THE TOP OF  ALBUQUERQUE'S POLICE DEPARTMENT TO TALK ABOUT THE  JOB IN FRONT OF THEM.

WE BEGIN WITH THE LINE.

THE PROGRESSIVE ERA HAS ARRIVED AT  NEW MEXICO LEGISLATURE.

MANY OF US WONDERED WHAT THE  IMPACT OF THE LEFTWARD SWING IN THE SENATE WOULD BE THIS  SESSION.

AND IT IS FAIR TO SAY WE HAVE  GOTTEN A GOOD LOOK AT IT.

HERE TO OPINE ON THAT SESSION  THAT JUST ENDED LAST WEEK IS OUR ALL JOURNALIST LINE PANEL.

JOINING US FROM THE SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE  STATE, NEWS DIRECTOR FOR THE CARLSBAD CURRENT ARGUS,  ALAMOGORDO NEWS AND RUIDOSO NEWS, JESSICA ONSUREZ JOINS US  ONCE MORE.

FROM NEW MEXICO POLITICAL  REPORT AND OUR OWN GROWING FORWARD CANNABIS POD CAST,  ANDY LYMAN IS BACK.

EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR FOR THE SANTA FE  NEW MEXICANS, INEZ RUSSELL GOMEZ IS HERE AND CAPITAL  BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, DAN BOYD  TAKES ANOTHER TURN AT OUR VIRTUAL ROUND TABLE.

WE'LL GET TO THESE TOPICS WITH EVERYONE.

DAN I AM GOING TO LIST THE LEGISLATION THAT PASSED.

MANDATORY SICK LEAVE FOR PRIVATE BUSINESSES, AID IN  DYING, REPEALING AN ABORTION CRIMINALIZATION MEASURE,  DIPPING INTO THE PERMANENT FUND FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD  EDUCATION.

A TRAPPING BAN.

IS THIS A PROGRESSIVE WISH LIST AS WAS PREDICTED?

>> Boyd: I THINK IT REALLY SHOWS THAT ELECTIONS HAVE  CONSEQUENCES.

SOME OF THOSE BILLS THAT YOU  JUST MENTIONED HAD STALLED IN THE SENATE REPEATEDLY IN  RECENT YEARS AND THE FACT THEY ARE ABLE TO GET THEM THROUGH  THIS YEAR.

CERTAINLY I DON'T THINK THE  PROGRESSIVE GOT EVERYTHING THEY WANTED.

THERE IS ISSUES HANGING OUT ON THE CALENDAR BUT THE PERMANENT  FUND DEBATE HAS BEEN A DECADE THAT HADN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET  THAT OVER THE FINISH LINE AND TO SEE THAT HAPPEN THIS YEAR,  I MEAN, IT REALLY SHOWED THE DIFFERENCES IN THE SENATE AND  THE FACT THAT NEW PEOPLE IN LEADERSHIP, NEW COMMITTEE  CHAIRS AND THOSE HAVE CONSEQUENCES AND WE ARE  STARTING TO SEE THAT AND THERE IS SOME FRUSTRATION AMONG  REPUBLICANS THAT THEY COULDN'T MAYBE HAVE THE INFLUENCE OF  YEARS PAST IN STOPPING SOME OF THOSE BILLS, BUT CERTAINLY I  THINK THE PROGRESSIVE FACTION AT THE ROUNDHOUSE IS  EMBOLDENED AND FLEXING THEIR MUSCLES A LITTLE BIT THIS  YEAR.

>> Gene: JESSICA, EARLY  CHILDHOOD EDUCATION MONEY THAT COMES FROM EXTRACTIVE  INDUSTRIES WHICH, OF COURSE, IN YOUR PART OF THE STATE HOW  DO PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT A 25% BUMP IN WHAT THE STATE TAKES  FROM THE PERMANENT FUND?

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF THAT?

>> Onsurez: I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT WHAT  THAT MEANS FOR THAT FUND ESPECIALLY SINCE WE ARE IN  SUCH UNCERTAIN REVENUE TIMES.

WE HAD A LOT OF -- IN THE  COMMUNITY -- WE HAD A LOT OF DEBATE ABOUT WHAT THAT LOOKS  LIKE WHEN YOU EXECUTE THE MONEY INSIDE THE SCHOOL  SYSTEM.

THAT WAS WHERE THE CONCERN  LIES, NOT SO MUCH AS PULLING THAT MONEY BECAUSE EVERYBODY  GETS BEHIND SUPPORTING EDUCATION I THINK, BUT REALLY  WHAT DOES EXECUTION OF THOSE FUNDS LOOK LIKE IN OUR PUBLIC  SCHOOLS.

>> Gene: ANDY, THIS IS  INTERESTING TO ME, LEGISLATION LIKE A TRAPPING BAN.

I MENTIONED ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, AID OF DYING  LEGALIZATION.

REPUBLICANS WEREN'T KEEN ON THEM ALL.

WE OFTEN HEARD ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES IN THE TRUMP ERA  AND DAN JUST MENTIONED THAT AS WELL.

IS THIS THE SAME DEAL ON THE OTHER END OF THE POLITICAL  SPECTRUM?

IS THAT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

>> Lyman: IT COULD BE.

AS DAN TALKED ABOUT IT, IT  OCCURRED TO ME THIS IS SORT OF THE LAST SESSION BEFORE THE  GOVERNOR IS UP FOR REELECTION.

THERE IS A BIG ELECTION IN  2022, AND NEXT YEAR IS A 30-DAY SESSION.

THEY DON'T TAKE AS BIG A BITE AS THEY USUALLY WOULD.

SO I THINK IT WAS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, PEDAL TO THE METAL THIS  SESSION TO TRY TO GET ALL THOSE THINGS DONE.

>> Gene: YOU KNOW, I AM SO CURIOUS, INEZ, HOW YOU FEEL  LIKE WHERE THE GOVERNOR IS ON THIS.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LEGISLATIVE TILT, OF COURSE,  BUT THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO SIGN OR VETO ALL THESE THINGS.

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED ABOUT HER POLITICS WITH THE MEASURES SHE  FAVORED THIS SESSION?

>> Gomez: WELL, I THINK SHE  WAS PRETTY CLEAR WHAT HER PRIORITIES WERE AND SHE HAD  BEEN FOR AID IN DYING.

SHE PROMISED SHE WOULD REPEAL  CRIMINALIZATION OF ABORTION AND I THINK ONE OF HER  FRUSTRATIONS AS A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR WITH DEMOCRATIC  MAJORITIES IS THAT SHE WAS UNABLE TO DELIVER.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE THEMES IN POLITICS FROM CONGRESS ALL  THE WAY DOWN TO THE STATE HOUSE AND TO LOCAL  GOVERNMENTS, IS THAT IF YOU RUN FOR SOMETHING AND YOU MAKE  PROMISES, YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO DELIVER AND WE HAVE HAD A  SITUATION IN MANY AREAS OF GOVERNMENT WHERE MINORITIES,  IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL PARTIES, CAN STOP  WHAT MAJORITIES WANT, WHETHER IT IS A POLITICAL MAJORITY OR  THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE.

SO I THINK FOR HER TO GO BACK  ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, SHE IS GOING TO SAY, LOOK, I KEPT MY  PROMISES.

NOW, WHETHER THAT WORKS FOR  HER, WE'LL SEE, BECAUSE ESPECIALLY WITH AID IN DYING  AND ABORTION LAWS, THERE ARE A LOT OF DEMOCRATIC CATHOLIC  VOTERS WHO DON'T LIKE IT AND WE HAVE SEEN IN SANTA FE AND  PROBABLY IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO AND OTHER PARTS OF THE  STATE, PRIESTS ACTUALLY PREACHING FROM THE PULPIT  AGAINST IT.

WHETHER THAT AFFECTS VOTERS AND CHANGES WHO  VOTES FOR WHOMEVER, WE'LL SEE.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT  THERE.

DAN, I WANT TO COME BACK TO  THE SAME ISSUE OF THE ABORTION BAN.

PASSED EARLY, REALLY DIDN'T SEEM LIKE IT WAS A LOT OF  ANGST ABOUT IT.

IT JUST SORT OF SAILED RIGHT  THROUGH.

AS YOU WATCHED IT HAPPEN, WAS  IT A CLUE TO ANYTHING TO COME, AS THEY SAY?

>> Boyd: FOR US IT WAS REALLY, SPECIFICALLY IN THE SENATE,  KIND OF A TEST CASE OF WHETHER, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY  SINCE THAT BILL HAD FAILED TWO YEARS AGO, EIGHT MODERATE  DEMOCRATS VOTED AGAINST IT AND A LOT OF THEM WERE OUSTED IN  LAST YEAR'S PRIMARY ELECTION.

IT WAS A TEST CASE AND ONCE IT  PASSED THE SENATE, I THINK THAT REALLY SHOWED US THAT  THINGS HAD CHANGED, THAT IT WAS KIND OF A NEW ERA, NOT  THAT ANY PROGRESSIVE BILL WOULD GET THROUGH, BUT WITH  ONLY TWO DEMOCRATS VOTING AGAINST IT THIS YEAR AND THE  GOVERNOR, SHE HAD BEEN CLEAR, LIKE, GIVE ME THIS BILL AND AS  SOON AS WE HAVE THE VOTES IN THE SENATE IT IS GOING TO  HAPPEN.

CLEARLY THAT WAS THE CASE THIS  YEAR AND LIKE YOU SAID, I MEAN, THEY GOT THAT ONE  THROUGH, I THINK, HALFWAY THROUGH THE SESSION, WHICH IS  PRETTY EARLY.

>> Gene: AMAZING ABOUT THAT,  HALFWAY THROUGH, BIG FIRST ONE GETS SIGNED.

TALK ABOUT THE BUDGET PART.

ONCE THE LAWMAKERS, OF COURSE,  DEPENDS ON THE AVAILABILITY -- IT IS SORT OF HUNG UP ON THE  AVAILABILITY OF PANDEMIC RELIEF FUNDS.

IS THIS A NOVEL APPROACH FOR LEGISLATORS TO INCLUDE THIS  KIND OF CONTINGENCY.

IS IT SAFE?

OR IS IT JUST A ONE-TIME THING.

>> Lyman: I WOULD GUESS IT IS A ONE-TIME THING.

IT IS HARD  TO SAY.

EVERYTHING IS NOVEL IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, 12 TO  13 MONTHS AT THIS POINT.

SO, YEAH, I WOULD THINK THEY  WOULD PROBABLY SORT OF SHIFT AWAY FROM THAT IN THE COMING  YEARS.

I WOULD GUESS.

>> Gene: INEZ, PAYDAY LOANS DID NOT MAKE IT THROUGH AND,  AGAIN, ANOTHER ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN OUT THERE FOR YEARS.

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> Gomez: SOMEHOW ALONG THE  WAY, INSTEAD OF KEEPING IT AT 36% WHICH WAS STILL A GOOD  PROFIT FOR THE LENDERS, THEY ADDED IN THE HOUSE, WHICH WAS  INTERESTING, A 99% CAP AND THE SENATE WOULDN'T CONCUR SO IT  DIED.

SO YOU COULD ARGUE THEY SHOULD  HAVE KEPT THE COMPROMISE AND MOVED ON BUT I THINK THIS IS  ONE OF THOSE BILLS WHERE THEY SAID, WE COMPROMISED ENOUGH  BECAUSE REMEMBER IT USED TO BE 150 SOMETHING AND THEY GOT IT,  YOU KNOW, THEY GOT IT DOWN FROM -- NOW IT IS STILL GOING  TO BE 150 SOMETHING AND WE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO COME  BACK.

I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE  BILLS WHERE PEOPLE WHO GET CONTRIBUTIONS FROM PAYDAY  LENDERS SAY WE ARE HELPING POOR PEOPLE AND FEEL GOOD  ABOUT THEMSELVES EVEN THOUGH IT IS ONE OF THOSE CYCLE OF  POVERTY THINGS THAT WE NEED TO GET OUT OF.

I MEAN, IF THE MILITARY SAYS 36% IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THEIR  SOLDIERS AND SAILORS, ET CETERA, I THINK, PROBABLY WE  CAN LIVE WITH THAT.

>> Gene: JESSICA, COULD I ASK  YOU TO PICK UP ON THAT AS WELL FOR YOUR PART OF THE STATE.

THEY ARE EVERYWHERE.

I AM NOT SAYING JUST IN YOUR  PART OF THE STATE BUT THAT SENSE OF NOT HAVING THIS PASS,  THE IMPACTS IN YOUR PART IN YOUR PART OF THE WORLD.

>> Onsurez: JUST TO PICK UP ON WHAT INEZ WAS SAYING, WE ARE  TALKING ABOUT A CYCLE OF POVERTY WITH A BILL WHEN YOU  LOOK AT IT ON IT FACE IT IS ONE OF THOSE HELPING BILLS.

THE THOUGHT IS WE ARE ABLE TO ENGAGE IN THAT BELOW THE  POVERTY LINE COMMUNITIES AND THERE IS A LOT OF THOSE RURAL  COMMUNITIES IN THIS REGION.

I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT OF  DISAPPOINTMENT THAT IT DIDN'T AND DEBATE AMONG OUR SMALL  BUSINESSES ABOUT WHAT THEIR EMPLOYEES COULD ACCESS AT THE  MOMENT AND HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT THEM OVERALL, BUT JUST  LIKE INEZ SAID THERE WAS FRUSTRATION THAT THERE COULD  HAVE BEEN MORE COMPROMISE TO GET THIS THING TO MOVE FORWARD  A BIT MORE.

>> Gene: JESSICA, FOR YOU AND  FOR OTHERS TO KICK IN, DID WE GET MEANINGFUL POLICE REFORM  OR DID LAWMAKERS LET THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOMENT PASS HERE?

WAS SOMETHING MISSED?

>> Onsurez: I DO THINK THERE  WAS SOMETHING MISSED.

I THINK IF THERE WAS GOING TO  BE A MOMENT FOR ANY TYPE OF POLICE REFORM, NOW WOULD HAVE  BEEN IT IN THE WAKE OF EVERYTHING WE SEE WITH THE  BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.

I KNOW THAT THE CONSENSUS IN  THIS REGION IS WE WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO ENSURE  LOCAL, STATE AND REGIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE PROTECTED,  THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO DO THEIR JOB AND DO IT WELL AND SERVE  THE PUBLIC GOOD, BUT THERE WAS ALSO A LOT OF VOICES IN THE  COMMUNITIES ACROSS NEW MEXICO WITH CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THEY  DO THEIR JOBS AND MAKING SURE CITIZENS ARE PROTECTED AS  POLICE OFFICERS EXECUTE THEIR DUTIES.

SO WE DIDN'T GET VERY FAR, IN MY OPINION.

OF COURSE WE DIDN'T GET VERY FAR WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT  REFORM.

>> Gene: WHAT WAS THE HANG UP  FOR POLICE REFORM?

>> Boyd: I THINK ONE DYNAMIC  CLEARLY WAS THE DEATH OF A STATE POLICE OFFICER IN THE  LINE OF DUTY DURING THE MIDDLE OF THE SESSION DOWN IN THE  DEMING AREA AND I THINK THAT REALLY BROUGHT A HUMAN ELEMENT  TO THE DEBATE.

SOME LEGISLATORS KNEW HIM OR  HIS FAMILY PERSONALLY.

I DO THINK THEY PASSED THE  CIVIL RIGHTS ACTS WHICH IF THE GOVERNOR SIGNS THAT WOULD  ALLOW FOR LAWSUITS TO BE FILED IN STATE DISTRICT COURT.

THAT  WAS A HOTLY DEBATED BILL.

I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD CALL  THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT REFORM BUT IT WAS ONE MEASURE THAT  DID GET TRACTION, BUT I AGREE.

THE OTHER ONES THERE WAS  PUSHBACK THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT FELT THEY WEREN'T AT THE TABLE  OR BEING TARGETED AND MAYBE THIS WAS THE YEAR TO DO IT,  BUT I THINK TO GET SOMETHING LIKE THAT PASSED THERE IS  GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOME BUY-IN AND MAYBE COMPROMISES  MADE ON ALL SIDES AND DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WE ARE THERE QUITE  YET.

>> Gene: SAME QUESTION.

THERE  HAS BEEN OBVIOUSLY SANTA FE HAS HAD ITS UPS AND DOWNS WITH  PROTESTS IN THE STREET, NOT NECESSARILY BLACK LIVES MATTER  RELATED, CERTAINLY, BUT SOMETHING SEEMED TO HAVE  CLUNKED HERE WHEN IT SEEMED LIKE IT HAD A LOT OF MOMENTUM  GOING IN.

>> Gomez: I THINK WHAT WE HAVE  SEEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT EARLY CHILDHOOD, SOMETIMES BIG  THINGS TAKE SEVERAL YEARS.

IT FEELS LIKE THIS IS THE  MOMENT TO ACT TO GET RID OF RUBBER BULLETS OR THINGS THAT  HURT PROTESTORS, BUT YOU HAVE TO HEAR OUT THE POLICE SIDE  WHICH IS HOW THEY CAN PROTECT THEMSELVES WITHOUT ACTUALLY  SHOOTING REAL BULLETS INTO CROWDS.

SO, I KIND OF THINK THIS WILL BE BACK.

AS WE SEE, EVERY YEAR THERE IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER OUTRAGE  WHETHER IT IS A POLICE OFFICER KILLING SOMEBODY OR AS WHAT  HAPPENED JUST RECENTLY IN BOLDER, A BRAVE POLICEMAN  KILLED SAVING OTHER PEOPLES' LIVES.

THIS IS COMPLICATED.

>> Gene: GLAD YOU MENTIONED  HIM.

A HIGHLAND HIGH SCHOOL GRAD  WITH FAMILY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AS WELL.

ANDY, LAWMAKERS CAME THIS CLOSE, TO LEGALIZING  RECREATIONAL ADULT-USE MARIJUANA.

IN FACT, WE'LL SEE A SPECIAL  SESSION POTENTIALLY IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS OR SO AND IN A  LITTLE BIT WE WILL HEAR FROM POLITICO'S CANNABIS REPORTER  IN A SECOND BUT RECAP WHAT HAPPENED AND WHERE THINGS  STAND RIGHT NOW, IF YOU WOULD.

>> Lyman: A LOT OF ACTION  HAPPENED LAST WEEK, ACTUALLY LAST FEW DAYS.

EVERYONE ALL EYES WERE ON ONE SENATE COMMITTEE.

LEGALIZATION GOT THROUGH THAT COMMITTEE, BUT IT WAS SORT OF,  YOU KNOW, TWO-AND-A-HALF DAYS LEFT.

THE CHAIR OF THAT COMMITTEE SAID, THIS BILL IS JUST NOT  READY.

ONE OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS  SAID IT IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.

AND FOR THE LAST 48 TO 24 HOURS WAS THIS BIG QUESTION OF  WHEN ARE THEY GETTING IT TO THE FLOOR.

THINGS STARTED TO COME THROUGH AND EVENTUALLY CONFIRMED ON  FRIDAY NIGHT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 12 HOURS OR SO BEFORE THE  SESSION WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OVER, THAT THE GOVERNOR WAS  GOING TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION.

ESSENTIALLY, TO  SIMPLIFY IT, ALL OF THAT STUFF IS SCRAPPED.

WE'LL START FROM FRESH OR THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO START  FRESH WITH PROBABLY SOME BITS AND PIECES BUT WE HAVE YET TO  SEE WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO CONSIDER YET.

>> Gene: DAN, ON THAT LAST POINT ANDY MADE, NOT SURE WHAT  WE ARE GOING TO CONSIDER, DO WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE  OTHER THINGS MAY GET SNUCK IN TO THIS SPECIAL?

IT IS ALMOST IRRESISTIBLE.

>> Boyd: THAT IS SOMETHING  CERTAINLY WE ARE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR.

GOVERNOR DIDN'T RULE IT OUT.

I DON'T THINK SHE WANTS TO ADD  A LOT OF THINGS TO THE AGENDA BUT ONCE YOU GET LEGISLATORS  THERE, CERTAINLY THERE IS A LOT OF GROUPS PUSHING FOR  THEIR BILLS TO BE INCLUDED THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT OVER THE  FINISH LINE.

AND LIKE ANDY MENTIONED,  CANNABIS LEGALIZATION IS COMPLICATED.

THE MORE YOU LOOK INTO ISSUES THE MORE QUESTIONS IT RAISES  AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, I DON'T THINK THEY HAD SOME OF  THOSE CONVERSATIONS EARLY ENOUGH IN THE SESSION AND I  THINK TRYING TO PASS IT IN A SINGLE-DAY SPECIAL SESSION IS  GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE UNLESS THEY CAN REACH SOME KIND OF A  DEAL OR AGREEMENT AHEAD OF TIME.

>> Gene: THAT IS OUR NEW MEXICO WAY.

WE HAVE BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE RECREATIONAL CANNABIS PUSH  THROUGH OUR GROWING FORWARD POD CAST, WHICH ANDY COHOSTS  WITH MEGAN KAMERICK, MY COLLEAGUE.

WE RECENTLY BROUGHT IN NATALIE FERTIG OF POLITICO TO GET A  FEEL FOR HOW NEW MEXICO'S APPROACH TO LEGALIZATION  SQUARES WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING NATIONALLY, HERE IS A BIT OF  THAT INTERVIEW.

>> Lyman:   WE ARE JOINED TODAY BY NATALIE FERTIG, A  JOURNALIST WITH POLITICO WHO COVERS CANNABIS ON A NATIONAL  LEVEL.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US  TODAY, NATALIE.

>> Fertig: THANKS FOR HAVING  ME YOU GUYS.

>> Megan: PART OF THE  CRITICISM HERE OF THIS YEARS FRONT RUNNER BILL AND  PREDECESSORS IN THE PAST YEARS WAS THE LENGTH AND HOW MANY  ISSUES IT TRIED TO COVER.

COMPARED TO THE STATE'S YOU  COVERED, HOW FAIR IS THAT CHARACTERIZATION OF NEW  MEXICO'S ATTEMPT HERE.

DID IT TRY TO DO TOO MUCH?

>> Fertig: WHAT WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S  ATTEMPT IS NEW MEXICO IS STILL IN THE FIRST ROUND OF STATES  THAT ARE ACTUALLY DOING THIS THROUGH LEGISLATIVE ACTION.

I KNOW THAT IT WILL BE THE 17TH STATE TO LEGALIZE  ADULT-USE CANNABIS IF THIS BILL PASSES BUT THE MAJORITY  OF THE STATES HAVE DONE THROUGH SO BALLOT MEASURES.

SO, LEGISLATURES HAVE BEEN GOING BACK IN AFTER  REGULATIONS WERE PASSED AND EITHER TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS  FROM THE BALLOT MEASURES THAT MAYBE DIDN'T WORK.

COLORADO,  FOR EXAMPLE, FAMOUSLY ALLOWED MEDICAL PATIENTS TO GROW 100  PLANTS AT HOME FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS, LEGISLATURE  HAD TO GO IN AND DRASTICALLY REDUCE THAT HOME GROW LIMIT  WHICH WAS ESSENTIALLY A SMALL FARM, BUT OTHER STATES THAT  HAVE DONE THIS THROUGH BALLOT MEASURES, SOME WERE DETAILED  AND SOME OF THEM WERE NOT.

THE CLOSEST TO NEW MEXICO  WOULD BE EITHER VIRGINIA'S LEGISLATION OR ILLINOIS'  LEGISLATION WHICH BOTH REGULATED CANNABIS AND ALSO  ADDRESSED SOCIAL EQUITY CREATING SOCIAL EQUITIES FUNDS  AND DOING EXPUNGE-MENT.

SOME OF THE OTHER STATES HAVE  NOT MAYBE DONE THAT IN THAT COMPLICATED OF A FASHION.

>> Megan: YOU TOUCHED ON THE WHOLE ISSUE OF PLANT COUNT,  PLANT LIMITS FOR GROWERS.

WHAT IS THE TREND YOU'RE  SEEING ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF PRODUCTION CONTROL?

>> Fertig: HONESTLY IN NEW MEXICO, YOU GUYS ARE SO  INTERESTING AND AN OUTLIER IN THIS WHOLE THING NATIONALLY.

I HAD TO ASK -- I SPOKE WITH REPRESENTATIVE MARTINEZ ABOUT  HIS BILL AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SESSION AND I TOTALLY  MESSED UP.

I HAD NO CLUE HE WAS TALKING  ABOUT THE PLANT COUNT AND I THOUGHT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT  HOME GROW.

HE HAD TO CORRECT ME BECAUSE  IT IS NOT SOMETHING I HEARD BEFORE, PUTTING A CAP ON THE  NUMBER OF PLANTS THAT CAN BE GROWN.

USUALLY STATES DISCUSS LIMITING THE NUMBER OF  LICENSES OUT THERE, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAN GROW AND  THEN THEY HAVE SEPARATE LICENSES FOR DIFFERENT AMOUNTS  OF PLANTS.

SO IN CALIFORNIA YOU CAN HAVE  A TINY LICENSE FOR LESS THAN 5,000 PLANTS.

YOU CAN HAVE  5,000 TO 10,000 PLANT LICENSE, BUT ESSENTIALLY IN CALIFORNIA,  EVEN YOU COULD STACK 5,000 PLANT LICENSES TO THE ENDS OF  THE EARTH IF YOU HAD THE SPACE TO DO IT.

SO, THE CAP ON PLANTS THAT IS A NEW MEXICO ONLY THING AND AS  SOMEONE WHO COVERS A LOT OF THESE STATES, I AM EXCITED TO  SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT.

>> Megan: YOU TOUCHED ON THIS  BUT HOW DID OTHER STATES THAT LEGALIZED TRY TO ADDRESS SOME  OF THOSE SOCIAL JUSTICE OR EQUITY ISSUES THAT THE NEW  MEXICO LEGISLATION HAD?

>> Fertig: IT HAS BEEN A   BUMPY RIDE.

CALIFORNIA WAS ONE OF THE FIRST STATES ALONG WITH  MASSACHUSETTS AND ILLINOIS TO CREATE SOCIAL EQUITY PROGRAMS.

ILLINOIS WAS FIRST STATE TO JUST BLANKET EXPUNGE  NONVIOLENT LOW LEVEL CANNABIS RELATED RECORDS.

LOOKING FOR THAT WORD.

BUT, EVEN SOME OF THESE  PROGRAMS THAT WERE EARLY, MASSACHUSETTS PROGRAM, FOR  EXAMPLE, HIT A LOT OF HURDLES BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT  A LOT OF LAWMAKERS DID NOT RECOGNIZE WAS THAT YOU CAN GET  GIVE EQUITY APPLICANTS A HEAD START BUT YOU ALSO NEED TO  GIVE EQUITY APPLICANTS THE MEANS TO SUCCEED WITH THAT  LICENSE OR WITH THAT PRIORITY STATUS.

I MEAN, I HAVE SEEN IN REPORTING ON CALIFORNIA A LOT  OF THE PEOPLE GETTING LICENSES ARE PEOPLE COMING FROM THE  REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY.

THEY HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH  LICENSING AND CITY PERMITTING AND THEY HAVE DEEP POCKETS AND  THEY HAVE DEEP POCKETED FRIENDS.

AND YOU SEE SOMEONE COMING FROM ONE OF THE COMMUNITIES  AND THE ZIP CODES THAT HAVE BEEN MOST IMPACTED BY THE WAR  ON DRUGS AND THEY DON'T HAVE DEEP POCKETED FRIENDS OR DEEP  POCKETS THEMSELVES AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO TALK TO CITY  COUNCIL PEOPLE OR HOW TO FILE ALL THE COMPLICATED PAPERWORK.

SO, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE PRIORITY STATUS IN THE SYSTEM,  THEY ARE STILL NOT GETTING OPEN.

THEIR DOORS AREN'T  GETTING OPEN AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH THE POWER, A LOT  OF THE WHITE MEN WHO, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE INSTITUTIONAL  KNOWLEDGE WHICH, YOU KNOW, NOT PLACING BLAME OR ANYTHING BUT  THAT IS THE SYSTEM AND THAT IS THE REALITY, ARE PROGRESSING  FURTHER THAN THE EQUITY APPLICANTS.

IT IS A VERY, VERY COMPLICATED PROBLEM TO SOLVE.

>> Gene: AT THE START OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION MORE THAN  A FEW NEWS STORIES MENTIONED MAJORITY OF REPRESENTATIVES  WOULD BE WOMEN FOR THE FIRST TIME IN NEW MEXICO'S HISTORY.

SENATOR MIMI STEWART BEAT OUT CHALLENGERS TO ASSUME THE  MANTLE OF PRESIDENT PRO TEM, A POWERFUL POSITION THAT  INFLUENCES COMMITTEE APPOINTMENTS BUT IT WAS  SENATOR STEWART, WHO IS NO SHRINKING VIOLET CERTAINLY,  WHO CALLED A THURSDAY NIGHT EXCHANGE WITH FELLOW DEMOCRAT  DANIEL IVEY-SOTO AN ABUSIVE LINE OF INQUIRY AS SHE  PRESENTED THE MANDATORY SICK LEAVE BILL.

WE HAVE THE DEBATE LINKED ONLINE AT  NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG.

I ENCOURAGE YOU TO SEE IT IF  YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THAT EXCHANGE.

A NUMBER OF MALE SENATORS CALLED IT DISGRACEFUL OR  EMBARRASSING FOR MR. IVEY-SOTO AND ELISE STEFANIK CALLED IT  BULLYING.

IN FACT, THE SENATE RECESSED  FOR HALF AN HOUR TO COOL OFF.

IT WAS CLEAR FROM THE GET-GO  THIS WAS GOING TO BE CONTENTIOUS BUT SENATOR  IVEY-SOTO CROSSED THE LINE.

INEZ START WITH YOU.

>> Gomez: I WAS WATCHING IT AS IT HAPPENED BECAUSE I COULDN'T  SLEEP AND I WAS CURIOUS WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE JUDICIARY  AND I REMEMBER WATCHING IT THINKING, OH, MY GOSH, HE IS  NOT STOPPING AND IT WASN'T THAT HE WAS ABUSIVE IN THE  SENSE THAT HE WAS CALLING HER NAMES OR BEING RUDE THAT WAY,  IT IS JUST THAT HE KEPT ASKING THE SAME QUESTION OVER AND  OVER AND HE HAD THE ANSWER AND HE DIDN'T MOVE ON.

I SAID IN A TWEET AT THE TIME, THERE IS QUESTIONING TO ELICIT  INFORMATION AND THERE IS QUESTIONING TO BADGER.

THIS  IS BADGERING.

WILL SOMEONE STOP IT.

WHAT I WONDERED IS WHERE WAS MORALES, WHO WAS RUNNING THE  SESSION.

HE DID SAY, WE NEED TO BE  CIVIL, BUT NOTHING LIKE SAYING, LET'S MOVE ON.

WHEN ELISE STEFANIK STOOD UP BEHIND MIMI STEWART AND SAID,  THIS IS BULLYING, IT WAS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS YOU THOUGHT,  WELL, I AM NOT ALONE IN SEEING THAT THIS WAS TOO MUCH.

IT WAS VERY, VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.

I CANNOT IMAGINE WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE IN THE ROOM AND  SENATOR STEWART WAS SO FIRM, NEVER WAVERED AND NEVER GOT  ANGRY AND I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE KEPT HER COOL.

I WAS  IMPRESSED.

>> Gene: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT  IT, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS BEING TREATED AS A HOSTILE WITNESS  WHEN YOU KIND OF BREAK IT DOWN AND THE IDEA THAT SHE IS THE  MOST POWERFUL WOMAN IN THE SENATE.

SOMETHING WAS JUST OUT OF BALANCE HERE.

HOW DID YOU VIEW THIS?

>> Onsurez: I WAS WATCHING AS  IT WAS HAPPENING AND FIRST THING CAME TO ME WAS SENSE OF  DECORUM, RIGHT?

WE CONDUCT THESE SESSIONS AS BODIES  REPRESENTATIVES OF OUR OWN COMMUNITIES AND THOUGHT IS  THEY WILL DO SO IN A RESPECTFUL MANNER.

THAT IS THE FIRST THOUGHT THAT CAME TO MY MIND AS WELL AS I  WAS WATCHING THIS.

KUDOS TO MIMI STEWART AS WELL.

SHE DID KEEP HER COOL AND SHE  WAS STANDING HER GROUND AS SHE DID IT, SO THAT WAS IMPRESSIVE  TO SEE, BUT I THINK THAT ONE OF THE BIG TAKE AWAYS FROM  THAT EXCHANGE WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, IT IS MORE THAN JUST  ABOUT PASSION.

AND I THINK THAT SENATOR SOTO  CAME BACK AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS SOMETHING I AM PASSIONATE  ABOUT AND THAT IS WHY I GOT HEATED AND CONTINUED WITH MY  LINE OF QUESTIONING.

>> Gene: HOW DID THAT RESPONSE  WORK FOR YOU?

>>   Onsurez: THE FOLLOW-UP TO ALL OF THIS IS REALLY THIS  IDEA OF HOW WOMEN ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY TREATED IN  BODIES LIKE THIS.

AS A WOMAN, I THINK ANY WOMAN,  PROFESSIONAL WOMAN IN ANY PRIVATE OR PUBLIC SECTOR WANTS  TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO RECEIVE THE SAME LEVEL OF  RESPECT AND TREATMENT AS THEIR MALE COLLEAGUES AND WE WANT  THE SEE THAT FROM OUR PUBLIC BODIES AS WELL.

I LOOKED AT  IT AS BULLYING, DEFINITELY, NOT NECESSARILY ON THE STATUS  OF HER SEX BUT DEFINITELY ON THE STATUS OF THE POWER SHE  HOLDS WITHIN THAT BODY.

>> Gene: JESSICA MENTIONED  ABOUT STANDING HER GROUND.

THAT WAS NOT WITHOUT IRONY,  BECAUSE I SEEM TO RECALL, AND WE ALL DID AS WE WATCHED, MR.  IVEY-SOTO DEMANDING THAT MS. STEWART STAND DURING THIS  WHOLE THING WAS LIKE, WHOA, HANG ON, SOMETHING SEEMS TO  HAVE TAKEN A TURN HERE.

AGAIN, THIS IDEA OF BADGERING.

NOW WE UNDERSTAND THAT STANDING WHILE YOU ARE GIVING  TESTIMONY ON THE SENATE FLOOR IS THE WAY IT IS DONE, BUT  DEMANDING SOMEONE STAND.

I CAN'T RECALL THAT EVER  HAPPENING IN MY TIME.

IT IS NOT FOREVER.

CAN YOU RECALL ANY TIME YOU HAVE EVER SEEN SOMETHING LIKE  THAT.

>> Lyman: NO, NOT IN THAT SAME  WAY.

I DID SEE A FEW TIMES THIS  SESSION WHERE YOU SEE SOMEBODY SPEAKING AND SOMEBODY OFF  CAMERA SAID, HEY, REMINDED THEM TO STAND UP.

IT SEEMS THERE WAS MORE COMMON THIS TIME BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE  SO USED TO ZOOMING IN FOR COMMITTEE MEETINGS AND THAT  SORT OF THING, SO, I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST  SORT OF SLIPPED THEIR MIND, OH, I AM ON THE SENATE FLOOR,  I HAVE TO STAND UP WHEN I SPEAK.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION MORE DIRECTLY, I DON'T REMEMBER A  SPECIFIC TIME WHERE THE PERSON ASKING THE QUESTIONS SAYS,  HEY, YOU HAVE GOT TO STAND UP TO DO THIS.

>> Gene: HAVE YOU EVER WITNESSED ANYTHING LIKE THAT  IN YOUR TIME?

>> Boyd: I WAS ACTUALLY IN THE  SENATE CHAMBER WHEN IT ALL HAPPENED.

I CAN CERTAINLY TELL YOU, YOU COULD FEEL THE TENSION IN THE  ROOM.

EVEN AT 1:00 IN THE MORNING,  OR WHENEVER IT WAS, IT WAS LATE.

YOU KNOW, MY TAKE IS I THINK THERE HAD BEEN TENSIONS  BUILDING DURING THE SESSION.

SOME MALE SENATORS HAVE KIND  OF A VERY HARD HITTING WAY OF QUESTIONING EVEN OTHER  LEGISLATORS AND KIND OF ALMOST PROSECUTORIAL SOMETIMES.

AND I THINK THAT HAD BEEN BUILDING SOME TENSION AND IT  SPILLED OVER AND BOILED OVER THAT NIGHT.

I DON'T THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO JUST BLOW  AWAY.

I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE  MORE ABOUT THIS AND IT IS KIND OF -- THIS HAS BEEN THE  CULTURE OF THE SENATE AND NOW WITH MORE WOMEN AND A MORE  DIVERSE CHAMBER, I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE KIND OF   A BIT OF A RECKONING.

I AM NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW IT WILL PLAY OUT BUT CERTAINLY  WITH MORE WOMEN NOW IN THE LEGISLATURE, THAT SOME OF  THESE OLD WAYS OF DOING THINGS ARE BEING CHALLENGED.

>> Gene: DAN, STAYING WITH YOU, IS THERE ANY DOWNSIDE FOR  MR. IVEY-SOTO POLITICALLY?

MIMI STEWART IS VERY POWERFUL  AND SHE DOLES OUT COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS.

ANY RISK HERE FOR MR. IVEY-SOTO.

>> Boyd: I CERTAINLY THINK THERE IS.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT BLOWS OUT.

I HEARD SOME SUGGESTIONS ABOUT  POSSIBLE CENSOR OR ACTS LIKE THAT.

HE ALSO IS CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE RULES AND MIMI STEWART  IS PRO TEM THAT DECIDES COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS SO THAT  IS TO BE CONTINUED WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

I THINK HE INSISTED THAT IT WASN'T SEXIST BUT JUST THAT HE  IS PASSIONATE ABOUT ISSUES AND I THINK THE WAY HE CAME ACROSS  AND THE RESPONSE WE SAW FROM OTHER SENATORS SUGGESTED, AND  ESPECIALLY OTHER FEMALES, SUGGESTED THEY KIND OF SHARED  HER RESPONSE OR HER VIEW OF HOW THAT ALL WENT DOWN.

>> Gene: JESSICA, INTERESTINGLY, WHEN I THINK  ABOUT THIS AS WELL IN MY MIND'S EYE, I THINK ABOUT THAT  EXCHANGE, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS INTERESTING TO  ME IS THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT TO YIELD TO HIS QUESTIONING.

SHE REFUSED.

SHE WANTED TO BAG OUT OF IT.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM UP THERE, WHERE IF A  POLITICIAN IS FEELING ATTACKED WHERE IT JUST BRINGS IT TO A  HALT PERSONALLY.

TO GO BACK TO INEZ'S POINT,  THE PRESIDING OFFICER, SO TO SPEAK, HAS TO STEP IN.

HE SAID A COUPLE TIMES, MAN, COOL IT DOWN.

WHAT COULD HE HAVE DONE TO STOP THIS?

COULD HE HAVE GOTTEN AFTER MR. IVEY-SOTO IN A VIGOROUS  WAY?

>> Onsurez: WE ARE TALKING  ABOUT BODIES BASED IN TRADITION, RIGHT.

YES, IT IS HIS JOB TO MAINTAIN ORDER IN THAT CHAMBERS,  PARTICULARLY.

BUT, HINDSIGHT IS 20/20.

AS DAN SAID, THERE WAS A LOT OF TENSION IN THE ROOM.

EVERYBODY WAS FEELING IT AND PERHAPS HE WASN'T THINKING AT  THE MOMENT THIS IS SOMETHING I NEED TO INTERCEDE IN BUT THIS  IS DEMOCRACY AND HOW OUR DEMOCRACY WORKS.

AS A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC BODY, IT IS HER JOB TO RECEIVE  THESE QUESTIONS AND ANSWER THEM AS BEST SHE CAN.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED THAT WE COME BACK, WITH HINDSIGHT,  WE DO COME BACK WITH THOUGHTS ON HOW TO REFORM SOME OF THESE  ITEMS.

YOU KNOW,   WHAT DO THESE PROCEDURES LOOK LIKE?

WHAT DO  YOU DO IF YOU'RE THE LEGISLATOR FEELING BULLIED OR  ATTACKED OR EVEN IF DEBATES DON'T GO ANYWHERE, RIGHT?

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW HE ASKS THE SAME QUESTION OVER  AND OVER, REFUSING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE ANSWER.

THAT DOESN'T FURTHER THE DISCUSSION AS ALL.

THERE WAS MORE HE COULD HAVE DONE IN THE MOMENT BUT I THINK  THAT IS NATURE OF HOT HEADS AND NATURE OF DEBATE IN THE  MOMENT.

>> Gene: INEZ REAL QUICK, JUST  REMINDER, TWO REGULAR SESSIONS AGO WE HAD REALLY THE ORIGINAL  ME TOO MOMENT IN THE LEGISLATURE BUT IT INVOLVED  LOBBYISTS AND I AM WONDERING IF THAT IS IN THE BACKGROUND  OF ALL THIS, THAT THIS HAS BEEN ON SLOW BOIL TO MEDIUM  BOIL AND NOW HIGH BOIL FOR A LOT OF WOMEN STARTING WITH  THAT LOBBYING SITUATION TWO YEARS AGO AND IT EXPLODED  HERE.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, THAT  IS MIXED IN HERE AS WELL?

>> Gomez: I DO THINK SO AND I  THINK THE INFLUX OF YOUNGER WOMEN WHO MAYBE HAVEN'T PUT UP  WITH SEXIST BEHAVIOR FOR 20 OR 30 YEARS OF THEIR CAREER, WE  HAVE KIND OF REACHED A BULK WHERE PEOPLE SAY, HEY, WE ARE  NOT GOING TO DO THIS THIS WAY ANYMORE.

AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE KIND OF THE BACKUP FOR THE WOMEN  WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, BEEN ALONE IN THE SENATE AND ONLY HAD ONE  BATHROOM AND NOT HAD THE SUPPORT THEY NEEDED.

SO, I REALLY THINK THAT WHEN YOU GET ENOUGH DIFFERENT KINDS  OF PEOPLE IN A HOUSE OR SENATE, THEN THE PROCEDURES  ARE GOING TO CHANGE WHETHER YOU WANT THEM TO OR NOT.

IT IS MOVING.

>> Gene: THROUGH YOU GO.

WE ARE OUT OF TIME ON THIS ONE.

THIS GROUP IS BACK IN A FEW MINUTES WITH A LOOK AT HOW  GOOD GOVERNMENT MEASURES FAIRED.

>> Onsurez: NOT BEING ABLE TO GET TO THAT INFORMATION WAS A  HUGE BLACK HOLE FOR US.

WE WERE TRYING EVERY WAY TO  ACCESS THAT FROM ASKING FOR LEGISLATIVE EMAILS WHICH ARE  COVERED NOT CONSIDERED IN SOME AREAS, NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION,  WE WERE ALSO TAKING ON LAWSUITS.

WE HAD  CONVERSATIONS WITH LOCAL LEGISLATORS TO ASK IF THEY  WOULD THEMSELVES REVEAL WHAT THEY WERE GIVING THOSE FUNDS  TO.

>> Gene: ALBUQUERQUE POLICE  HAVE A FAMILIAR FACE IN THE CHIEF'S OFFICE.

HERALD MEDINA WILL LEAD THE DEPARTMENT AFTER SERVING IN AN  INTERIM ROLE.

HE'LL HAVE COMPANY, THOUGH, AS  MAYOR TIM KELLER APPOINTED SYLVESTER STANLEY TO LEAD  REFORM EFFORTS INCLUDING TO OVERSEE THE ACADEMY AND  INTERNAL AFFAIRS.

NMIF CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH  DOLAND TALKED TO THE TWO MEAN ABOUT THE CHALLENGES OF THEIR  JOBS, WHAT WILL BE DIFFERENT AND HOW THEY WILL TRY TO WORK  TOGETHER TO ADDRESS ALBUQUERQUE'S HIGH PROFILE  CRIME PROBLEM.

>> Gwyneth:  SUPERINTENDENT STANLEY AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE WHEN THEY  ANNOUNCED YOUR HIRING, YOU SAID, THE BUCK STOPS WITH YOU.

BUT THERE ARE TWO OF YOU.

SO, HOW ARE YOU TWO GOING TO  WORK THROUGH TOUGH ISSUES OF CULTURE CHANGE AND  ACCOUNTABILITY?

>> Stanley:  COMMUNICATION.

YOU KNOW, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE  DEPARTMENT.

WE ARE ALL A PART OF THE SAME  TEAM, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS.

THE BUCK STOPS ON THE TOP END.

BUT WE BOTH HAVE INDIVIDUAL  RESPONSIBILITIES THAT WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR BUT IN ORDER  TO REACH THAT GOAL, CHIEF MEDINA AND I HAVE TO  COMMUNICATE AND COMMUNICATE WITH OTHER PEOPLE OF HIS  STAFF.

BUT IT IS ALL ABOUT THE SAME  TEAM EFFORT.

AND I THINK GREAT  COMMUNICATION GOES A LONG WAYS AND IT HAS ONLY BEEN THE FIRST  WEEK BUT I HAVE NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT COMMUNICATION WITH ALL  THE DC'S AND THE CHIEF.

EVERYBODY IS MORE THAN HELPFUL  AND GIVING ME A HELPFUL HAND TRYING TO HIT THE GROUND  RUNNING.

>> Gwyneth: CHIEF MEDINA, THE  ACLU SAID IT WAS DISAPPOINTED WITH YOUR HIRING, BUT, BECAUSE  YOU COME RIGHT OUT OF THE CULTURE THAT HAS PROMOTED THIS  SYSTEMIC INABILITY TO HOLD OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE.

IS THAT FAIR?

>> Chief Medina: IT IS NOT  FAIR BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT EVERYBODY ASKS FOR THEY  ASKED FOR A TRANSFORMATIONAL LEADER.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE VERY DEFINITION OF THAT, THAT MEANS  SOMEBODY WHO HAS CHANGED AND CAN NEVER CHANGE BACK.

SO, BY THAT VERY DEFINITION, I HAVE BEEN VERY OPEN ABOUT THE  FACT THAT THE BEST EXPERIENCE FOR MY CAREER WAS LEAVING  ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN 2014, GOING TO THE TRIBAL  COMMUNITY OF LAGUNA, LEARNING WHAT I DID BEYOND WHAT I COULD  HAVE EVER LEARNED AT A POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE I HAD MY  HANDS SO MUCH IN THE LOWEST LEVELS OF THE DEPARTMENT  BECAUSE IT WAS SMALLER BUT WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY FROM  THE TOP THAT I HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED IN ALBUQUERQUE.

AND LEARNING TO WORK AND UNDERSTAND CULTURE AND THE  CONFLICTS BETWEEN CULTURE AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AND HOW THAT  CREATES FRICTION IS GOING TO BE THE KEY TO MOVING FORWARD.

AND THE ONE THING I DO COMPLIMENT ACLU IS THEY DIDN'T  SAY THEY HAD A PERSONAL ISSUE WITH HERALD MEDINA THE PERSON.

THEY HAD AN ISSUE WITH THE FACT THAT I HAD COME UP  THROUGH THE SYSTEM.

AND I WOULD BE MORE THAN GLAD AND I  LOOK FORWARD TO THE FUTURE WHEN I CAN SIT DOWN AND  EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT MY VISION IS AND WHAT I BROUGHT BACK  FROM THE PUEBLO OF LAGUNA AND HOW IT CHANGED ME AND THROUGH  THE VERY DEFINITION, I CAN'T CHANGE BACK.

>> Gwyneth: SUPT.

YOU'LL BE IN CHARGE OF YOU SAID THE POLICE  ACADEMY, REFORM PROCESS WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THE  DISCIPLINARY OFFICE PROCESS FOR OFFICERS AND CHIEF MEDINA  WILL BE IN CHARGE OF KIND OF THE DAY-TO-DAY.

AREN'T YOU LITERALLY BEING SET UP FOR A GOOD COP, BAD COP  SITUATION HERE?

>> Stanley: I DON'T THINK WE  ARE SET UP FOR THAT SITUATION IF WE DON'T ALLOW THAT TO  HAPPEN.

WE UNDERSTAND WHERE WE ARE  GOING AND THE RESPONSIBILITIES.

BUT, I THINK IT ALLOWS CHIEF MEDINA, AND HE MENTIONED THIS  SEVERAL TIMES, TO WHERE HE CAN BE OUT ON THE STREET AND STAY  ON TOP OF THE OPERATION SIDE OF THINGS, INVESTIGATIONS AND  FIELD SERVICES, AND ALLOW ME TO BE THAT PERSON THAT  MAINTAINS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE  AND TRAINING ACADEMY AS WELL AS INTERNAL AFFAIRS.

THAT IS A BIG LOAD OFF THE CHIEF'S PLATE AND I AM LOOKING  FORWARD TO THAT CHALLENGE AND I AM CONFIDENT WE CAN GO IN  AND MAKE NECESSARY CHANGES AND UPDATES BUT PEOPLE NEED TO  UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

WE DIDN'T GET HERE OVERNIGHT.

AND IT IS DEFINITELY NOT GOING  TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

BUT WE ARE GOING TO GIVE IT AN  HONEST EFFORT.

>> Gwyneth: WELL, IT HAS BEEN  MORE THAN SIX YEARS NOW OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CONSENT  DECREE AND THE MOST RECENT REVIEW FROM THE MONITOR JAMES  GINGER WAS PRETTY BAD.

IT WAS SCATHING.

IT LED TO AN ADDITIONAL LAYER OF OUTSIDE OVERSIGHT OF THE  DEPARTMENT.

WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO  MAKE THE CHANGES IN THAT CONSENT DECREE ONCE AND FOR  ALL?

>> Stanley: MAKE SURE WE ARE  FOLLOWING SUGGESTIONS AND THE POLICIES, UPDATES THAT ARE  NEEDED TO BE UPDATED.

AS I INDICATED, THIS HAS BEEN  MY FIRST WEEK AND I AM GETTING DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THIS THING  AND SO I THINK IF YOU ASK ME THAT SAME QUESTION IN ABOUT 30  DAYS, I CAN GIVE YOU MORE OF A DEFINITIVE ANSWER.

I AM VISITING ALL MY RESPECTIVE RESPONSIBILITIES IN  TERMS OF UNITS AND MEETING WITH COMMANDERS, TRAINING AND  WE NEED TO SIT DOWN AND DO SOME MORE DISSECTING OF THOSE  DEPARTMENTS AND MEETING WITH THE COMMANDERS AND TALKING TO  INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS AS WELL AS THE REPORT THAT CAME BACK FROM  THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

SO WE CAN GO IN AND SEE THE  PLACES WE NEED TO MAKE THOSE NECESSARY CHANGES.

>> Gwyneth: CHIEF MEDINA, FOLKS HAVE POINTED OUT THAT  YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN AT LEAST TWO HIGH PROFILE  SHOOTINGS AS WELL AS A SCANDAL AT THE LAGUNA PUEBLO DETENTION  CENTER WHERE A CORRECTIONS OFFICER WAS ACCUSED OF RAPING  AN INMATE ON YOUR WATCH.

HOW DO THOSE EXPERIENCES  CHANGE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE NEED TO REFORM APD AND HOW TO  GO ABOUT IT?

>> Chief Medina: YOU KNOW,  HONESTLY, THE PUEBLO OF LAGUNA INCIDENT SHOWED ME HOW AN  INDIVIDUAL COULD TAKE A SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES AND USE IT TO  THEIR BENEFIT.

THE PUEBLO OF LAGUNA, THERE  WERE SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THE COMPLAINT THAT WAS ACTUALLY  FILED.

THE FIRST VERSION DIDN'T NAME  ME AS BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING.

IT ACTUALLY NAMED THE PREVIOUS WARDEN.

I CAN'T GET INTO MUCH DETAIL BECAUSE THAT LAWSUIT WAS  SETTLED AND THAT INCLUDED THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR, PUEBLO  OF LAGUNA AND OTHERS.

AND THE FILE WAS SEALED AND  NOBODY CAN DISCUSS IT BUT THERE IS MORE TO THAT CASE  THAN MEETS THE EYE.

I WILL SAY THIS, THAT IS NOT  RELATED TO THE LAWSUIT, THAT FACILITY HAS PASSED ALL OF ITS  INSPECTIONS BY THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS AND HAD MET ALL  REQUIREMENTS IN ITS YEARLY ASSESSMENTS.

AND NO ISSUES WERE IDENTIFIED WITHIN THAT SYSTEM.

THE WARDEN HAD RECENTLY JUST BEEN TERMINATED AND I WAS ONLY  IN AN ACTING CAPACITY WHILE THEY FOUND A NEW WARDEN.

IN TERMS OF THE OTHER INCIDENTS, THOSE OTHER  INCIDENTS ARE GREAT IN TERMS OF ME BEING ABLE TO MAKE  DIFFERENCES AND SEE WHAT NEEDS TO OCCUR WITH ALBUQUERQUE  POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AND IT GOES INTO SEVERAL  LEVELS OF WHY IT IS UNHELPFUL TO HAVE SEEN THE CULTURE AND  THE TRAINING AND THE TACTICS THAT WE USED AND HOW IT NEEDS  TO ADVANCE.

FIRST OF ALL, MY OFFICER  INVOLVED SHOOTING WAS NEARLY 20 YEARS AGO AND I HAVE SEEN  HOW TACTICS OVER THE NEXT EVEN 10 YEARS CHANGED AND YOU SEE  HOW THERE IS TACTICS THAT ARE BETTER.

WITH MY FIRST OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING, THAT I WAS INVOLVED  IN, WE DIDN'T THINK OF UTILIZING CIT.

IT WASN'T A PRIORITY.

THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS  DEESCALATION AND HAVING THOSE THINGS TODAY I LOOK BACK ON  THOSE THINGS COULD HAVE BEEN -- A WHOLE DIFFERENT  OUTCOME COULD HAVE OCCURRED EVEN THE KENNETH ALLEN  SHOOTING, I WAS ON SCENE AND AT THE TIME, SUPERVISORS WHO  WERE ACTIVE AND INVOLVED IN THINGS.

I HAD ARRIVED FOR A CERTAIN FUNCTION BUT THE DOJ'S PROCESS  YEARS LATER BROUGHT US OTHER KEY ASPECTS THAT COULD HAVE  HELPED US THERE THAT I RECOGNIZED  SUCH AS DEESCALATION.

COULD YOU IMAGINE HAD WE HAD PEOPLE  TRAINED IN DEESCALATION FOR THAT SHOOTING, BUT IT WAS  PRE-DOJ, COULD YOU IMAGINE IF WE HAD CIT OFFICERS AT THAT  TIME AND MANDATED TO DISPATCH THEM.

IT HELPS ME REALLY UNDERSTAND THE PAST FROM WHERE WE WEREN'T  A GREAT AGENCY AND WE HAD MISTAKES, TO NOW THE  IMPORTANCE OF HAVING THOSE THINGS IN THIS ENVIRONMENT SO  WE COULD HAVE MORE PEACEFUL AND BETTER RESOLUTIONS.

>> Gwyneth: LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

THE MONITOR SAID WE HAVE MADE IMPROVEMENTS IN TERMS OF  TRAINING AND POLICY CHANGES, YOU KNOW, BUT 20 YEARS AFTER  THAT FIRST SITUATION, WE ARE STILL STUCK ON IMPLEMENTING  THAT TRAINING AND CHANGE IN THE DEPARTMENT AND CHANGING  THE CULTURE IN THE DEPARTMENT.

SO, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO  THAT?

>> Chief Medina: CHIEF: I  THINK OF THAT COMES DOWN TO ENSURING THAT FROM THE TOP IT  IS VIEWED WHAT IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK  AT THE PAST, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF WHERE WE FAILED THAT DOJ  HAS IDENTIFIED AND THAT IS PART OF THE SETTLEMENT  AGREEMENT AND WE ARE BEING GRADED ON BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO  CHANGE THE PAST IN THE OTHER AREAS THAT WE STRUGGLED AND  MAKE SURE ALL AREAS OF MOVING FORWARD AND ONE OF THE  PROGRAMS THAT I STARTED IS OUR AMBASSADOR PROGRAM.

AND THIS GOES BACK TO ME EVEN REACHING OUT TO MEMBERS FROM  THE BLACK COMMUNITY AFTER THE RIOTS WHEN I TOOK OVER IN THE  FALL.

THAT HAS BECOME A VERY  SUCCESSFUL RELATIONSHIP.

IT IS NOT A MEETING ANYMORE.

IT IS A RELATIONSHIP.

WE ARE WORKING PROJECTS  TOGETHER SO WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD IN ENSURING THAT  EVERYBODY IN ALBUQUERQUE KNOWS THAT WE WANT TO WORK TOGETHER  AND WE WANT TO CREATE TRUST.

THAT IS GOING TO REDUCE  FRICTION AND WHEN FRICTION IS REDUCED, THE ASPECTS THAT ARE  INVOLVED WITH COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND OUR OFFICERS  FUNCTIONING IN THE COMMUNITY, ARE GOING TO IMPROVE.

WHICH IS GOING TO LEAD TO MORE POSITIVE POLICE INTERACTIONS,  WHICH IS GOING TO HELP US START MEETING THE CONFINES OF  THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.

AS FOR CULTURE CHANGE, WE HAVE  TO START REWARDING THE PROPER BEHAVIOR.

IN 2018 I WORKED WITH CNM TO START A PROCESS OUTSIDE OF  MILITARISTIC STYLE TRAINING IN OUR ACADEMY AND NOW WE HAVE AN  EDUCATIONAL BASED PROCESS THAT WE ARE WORKING WITH CNM WHICH  IS VERY DIFFERENT.

THERE IS A LOT OF OFFICERS  THAT CRITICIZE IT AND I DO NOT LIKE THE PROCESS, BUT I FEEL,  AND I KNOW THAT IS THE WAY WE MOVE FORWARD IN CHANGING  CULTURE.

WE CANNOT TRAIN SOLDIERS.

WE NEED TO TRAIN COMMUNITY GUARDIANS.

AND THE OTHER THING IS, RECOGNIZING AND REWARDING THE  CORRECT BEHAVIOR.

>> Gwyneth: SO, WHAT ARE YOUR  BIGGEST CHALLENGES IN GETTING TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO,  CHIEF?

>> Chief Medina: YOU KNOW, THE  BIGGEST CHALLENGE TO START OFF WITH WAS TIME.

THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH TIME I HAVE IN A DAY.

WHEN THE MAYOR PRESENTED THIS CONCEPT TO ME, I ACCEPTED AND  SUPPORTED IT IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE I SAW THAT IT WOULD  CARVE OUT TIME FOR ME TO BE A TYPICAL POLICE CHIEF AND WHAT  TYPICAL CHIEFS DO ACROSS THIS NATION THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL AND  FOCUS ON THE OPERATIONS OF THE DEPARTMENT AND MAKING THE  COMMUNITY SAFE.

MY BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS I NEED  TO BRING TOGETHER THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, AS I STATED  EARLIER.

THIS EFFECT OF HAVING TO  ARREST INDIVIDUALS OVER AND OVER REACHES INTO ALL PARTS OF  WHERE WE ARE STRUGGLING AS A DEPARTMENT.

WE HAVE HIGH CRIME RATES WHICH MAKES MORE CALLS FOR SERVICE,  OFFICERS DON'T HAVE DEDICATED TIME TO GO HAVE COMMUNITY  ENGAGEMENT, BUILD RELATIONSHIPS.

REARRESTING VIOLENT INDIVIDUALS OVER AND OVER  AGAIN INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD OF FORCE BEING USED.

AND I PERSONALLY HAVE SEEN CASES THAT HAVE COME THROUGH  WHERE OUR OFFICERS HAVE USED FORCE ON AN INDIVIDUAL UP TO  THREE, FOUR TIMES BECAUSE THEY KEEP GETTING RELEASED FROM  CUSTODY.

SO WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THE  CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE DO  RELEASE PEOPLE, WE RELEASE THEM SUCCESSFUL AND WITH THE  RESOURCES NEEDED SO THAT THEY DON'T REOFFEND.

IN THAT I MEAN, WE ARE RELEASING A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS  WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEMS.

THEY STILL HAVE THAT SUBSTANCE  ABUSE PROBLEM AND THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH THE  TRENDS OF COMMITTING CRIME WHICH LEAD TOE THESE PROBLEMS.

ONE SOLUTION IS THAT WE WORK TOGETHER AND ENSURE WHEN WE  RELEASE SOMEBODY PENDING THEIR TRIAL DATE, THAT WE MAKE SURE  THEY ARE GIVEN EVERY SINGLE RESOURCE AND MONITORED TO  ENSURE THEY ARE GETTING THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE COUNSELING  THAT THEY NEED TO STAY OUT OF TROUBLE AND NOT HAVE  INTERACTION WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Gwyneth: SUPT.

STANLEY, WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO TAKE  THIS JOB AND WHAT IS IT THAT YOU MOST WANT TO ACHIEVE IN  IT?

>>   Stanley: I THOUGHT IT WAS EXCITING.

IT'S HERE IN MY BACK YARD.

I DON'T HAVE TO MOVE AGAIN,  BUT I THINK THE CHALLENGE THAT I CAN LEAVE PART OF A LEGACY  AS AN IMPACT ON MAKING CHANGE.

AND BEING SUCCESSFUL WITH THE  ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT HERE.

I THINK IT GOES A LONG  WAY.

I THINK I STILL HAVE A LOT TO  GIVE IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ARENA.

AND I THINK THIS WAS A GREAT MOVE TO SEE ALL THE THINGS  THAT WE HAVE HAD OVER THE YEARS AND THINGS THAT I CAN  HELP IMPROVE ON AND I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE  SO ONE DAY I CAN TELL MY GRANDCHILDREN, YOU KNOW, I  HELPED MAKE THAT CHANGE WITH ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT USED TO WORK FOR ME IN DIFFERENT  AGENCIES, DID NOTHING BUT CALL AND PRAISE AND CONGRATULATE ME  ON KNOWING THAT I AM THE PERSON THAT CAN HELP MAKE THAT  CHANGE.

BECAUSE I AM A TEAM PLAYER, I  BELIEVE IN BEING POSITIVE.

I BELIEVE IN PROFESSIONALISM  AND INTEGRITY OF ALL THE MEN AND WOMEN.

THAT IS MY STYLE.

I AM EXCITED ABOUT IT AND I AM  EXCITED ABOUT THE CHALLENGE.

AS THE MEDIA HAVE ASKED AND  INQUIRED HOW WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS, YOU KNOW, I COMMEND  THE MAYOR AND HIS STAFF FOR THINKING OUTSIDE OF THE BOX  AND CREATING THIS SUPERINTENDENT POSITION AND  ALLOWING THE CHIEF TO DO THOSE OPERATIONAL THINGS.

SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SET -- BECOME A ROLE MODEL FOR  OTHER DEPARTMENTS.

ALBUQUERQUE IS GOING TO BE ON  THE MAP AND OTHER LARGE DEPARTMENTS ARE GOING TO SAY,  WE NEED TO TAKE A PAGE OUT OF THEIR BOOK SO WE NEED TO BE  ABLE TO BE ON THE FRONT BURNER SO WE CAN SET THAT TEMPO FOR  OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.

>> Gwyneth: THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH FOR TALKING WITH ME  TODAY ABOUT THIS.

>> Chief Medina: THANK YOU,  YOU HAVE A GOOD DAY.

>> Gene: AS PART OF THE YOUR  NEW MEXICO GOVERNMENT PROJECT WITH MEDIA PARTNERS AT KUNM  AND SANTA FE REPORTER WE ARE ALWAYS INTERESTED IN POLICIES  THAT AFFECT HOW YOU INTERACT WITH THE WOMEN AND MEN YOU  REPRESENT YOU.

THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF  SO-CALLED GOOD GOVERNMENT BILLS THAT MET DIFFERENT  FATES.

KEY AMONG THOSE THAT PASSED, A BILL WHICH WOULD  OPEN UP THE CAPITAL OUTLAY PROCESS TO SEE WHICH PROJECTS  LAWMAKERS SUPPORTED WITH PUBLIC FUNDS.

JESSICA, HOW MIGHT KNOWING WHAT SENATORS AND  REPRESENTATIVES ARE PRIORITIZING HELP BOTH THE  MEDIA AND PUBLIC?

>> Onsurez: THESE ARE TAX  PAPER DOLLARS, LET'S START THERE.

THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW HOW THEY ARE BEING SPENT,  WHERE THEY ARE BEING SPENT, AND HOW OUR LEGISLATORS ARE  PRIORITIZING DISPERSAL ALL OF THOSE FUND.

THAT IS PROBABLY THE PRIMARY POINT IN THE ENTIRE DEBATE.

THE WAY THAT THE SYSTEM IS SET UP BEFORE IS WE WOULDN'T -- WE  WOULDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT KNOWLEDGE.

THEY COULD SAY, WE ARE GOING TO SEND FUNDS TO SUCH AND SUCH  ORGANIZATION AND SUCH AND SUCH AREA, BUT, THERE WOULD BE NO  EXPLICIT REVEAL TO THE PUBLIC OF WHERE THIS THAT WAS GOING.

AS A JOURNALISTS, WE ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR  TRANSPARENCY.

I THINK THAT IS A KEY TO  KEEPING OUR DEMOCRACY SAFE AND PROGRESSIVE AND ONGOING.

NOT BEING ABLE TO GET TO THAT INFORMATION IS -- WAS A HUGE,  HUGE BLACK HOLE FOR US.

WE WERE TRYING EVERY WHICH WAY  TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT FROM ASKING FOR  LEGISLATIVE EMAILS, WHICH ARE COVERED -- NOT CONSIDERED IN  SOME AREAS, NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION.

AND WE WERE ALSO TAKING ON LAWSUITS.

WE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH LOCAL LEGISLATORS TO ASK IF  THEY WOULD THEMSELVES REVEAL WHAT THEY WERE GIVING THOSE  FUND TO, AND IN MANY CASES SOME DID.

AND I THINK THAT I WANT TO GIVE KUDOS TO RURAL  LEGISLATORS WHO VOLUNTARILY LAST YEAR GAVE THEIR LIST OF  CAPITAL OUTLAY FUNDING OUT TO THE PUBLIC  SO, I THINK IF WE ARE COMING BACK TO THIS TOPIC, IT IS  REALLY ABOUT THE NEED TO KNOW WHERE OUR TAX DOLLARS ARE  GOING.

>> Gene: ANDY, LOOK, 1/3, 1/3,  1/3 THING WE HAVE BEEN UNDER FOR CAPITAL OUTLAY SINCE  FOREVER SEEMS CUMBERSOME AND SO INEFFICIENT AND EVERYBODY  SEEMS TO KNOW IT BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP  TO GET THERE.

WHAT WAS THE SENSE OF THE  DEBATE THIS TIME AROUND?

>> Lyman: IT MIGHT JUST BE  ABOUT THAT TIME.

I THINK SOMEBODY MENTIONED  EARLIER, YOU KNOW, THIS SORT OF TAKES YEARS TO GET THINGS  DONE.

I THINK WE ARE JUST NOW  GETTING OUT OF THIS CULTURE OF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DO THINGS  SECRETLY AND THIS IS THE WAY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN DONE SO WHY  BUCK THAT TREND AND, YEAH, I DO THINK, BACK TO JESSICA'S  POINT, KUDOS TO THOSE RURAL LAWMAKERS SAYING, YES, THIS IS  THE MONEY I AM PULLING FOR.

WE HAVE LAWMAKERS TRYING TO DO  FAVORS FOR FRIENDS IN DISTRICTS AND WE DIDN'T  CONNECT THE DOTS, SO THINK WE ARE SORT OF COMING OUT OF THAT  NOW.

>> Gene: KIND OF THE SAME  QUESTION ESSENTIALLY, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO YOU, DOES SEEING  BEHIND THE CURTAIN ENCOURAGE BETTER CAPITAL OUTLAY PLANNING  AND MORE ACCOUNTABILITY?

OPERATIVE WORD THERE,  ENCOURAGE.

NOT GUARANTEE, ENCOURAGE.

HOW FAR CAN WE GET DOWN THE ROAD WITH WHAT WE HAVE ON OUR  HANDS NOW.

>> Boyd: THIS IS A POSITIVE  STEP.

THAT KIND OF DISCLOSURE BUT  IT'S NOT AN OVERHAUL OF THE CAPITAL OUTLAY SYSTEM.

THE PROCESS IS STILL GOING TO WORK THE SAME WAY.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT INEFFICIENCY AND  A LOT OF MONEY SITTING THERE THAT GET ALLOCATED AND THEN  ISN'T SPENT.

SO, THIS MIGHT PUT A LITTLE MORE ONUS ON LEGISLATORS NOW  THAT WE CAN ALL SEE WHICH PROJECTS THEY ARE FUNDING,  HEY, IF ALL THESE PROJECTS YOU FUNDED DIDN'T MOVE FORWARD,  MAYBE YOU NEED TO COORDINATE BETTER WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS  AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT WAS INTERESTING TO ME TO  SEE AFTER DEBATING THIS ISSUE FOR SEVERAL YEARS, THIS YEAR  THE BILL SAILED THROUGH.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE GOT ONE OR  TWO DISSENTING VOTES BUT CLEARLY LEGISLATORS FELT  PRESSURE TO AT LEAST KIND OF TAKE THIS STEP AND WE'LL SEE  HOW THAT WORKS AND IF ADDITIONAL CHANGES NEED TO BE  MADE.

>> Gene: INEZ, THE LEGISLATURE  PASSED REDISTRICTING COMMISSION BILL, REQUIRING  CONSULTATION WITH TRIBES AND PROHIBIT CONSIDERING POLITICAL  MAKEUP OR OF DISTRICTS AMONG OTHER THINGS BUT IT WILL ALLOW  LAWMAKERS TO DRAW THEIR OWN MAPS INSTEAD OF PICKING FROM A  HANDFUL OF COMMISSION STEPS FORWARD.

IS THIS REALLY MEANINGFUL REFORM?

>> Gomez: I BELIEVE IT IS BECAUSE IT IS THE FIRST TIME  THAT SOMEONE OUTSIDE THE LEGISLATURE DRAWS THE MAPS TO  BEGIN WITH SO THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A PALLET TO START  WITH.

AND I DO THINK THAT  EMBARRASSMENT AND SHAMING CAN WORK.

SO IF, FOR EXAMPLE, THE LEGISLATURE REJECTED ALL THE  MAPS AND DID HORRIBLE GERRYMANDERING, THEY WOULD, A,  GET SUED, WHICH NO ONE WANTS TO SEE AND EVERYONE IN THE  STATE WHO IS IN FAVOR OF GOOD GOVERNMENT, AND THAT IS UP AND  DOWN FROM NEWSPAPERS TO GROUPS TO INDIVIDUALS, WOULD  EMBARRASS THEM.

I MEAN, SPEAKER EGOLF WAS  AGAINST THIS BILL UNTIL, I THINK, HE GOT A LOT OF PUSH  BACK AND FOUND A COMPROMISE WHICH INCLUDED THE LEGISLATURE  BEING ABLE TO HAVE A SAY AND I THINK THAT COMPROMISE IS  IMPORTANT ALSO BECAUSE THAT IS SORT OF IN THE CONSTITUTION.

SO, THE COMPROMISE THEY ENDED UP WITH GETS CITIZEN  INVOLVEMENT, IS INDEPENDENT, INVOLVES COMMUNITIES  THROUGHOUT THE STATE, IS TRANSPARENT AND IT KEEPS  LEGISLATIVE CONSULTATION AT THE END WHICH YOU COULD ARGUE  IS IN THE CONSTITUTION SO IT IS NOT GOING TO BE SUED IF THE  GOVERNOR DOES SIGN IT.

>> Gene: I APPRECIATE YOU  BRINGING THAT POINT UP ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONALITY, NOT  OFTEN TALKED ABOUT.

JESSICA, ON A SIMILAR NOTE, WE  ALSO DIDN'T SEE MEASURES TO PASS PROFESSIONALIZING THE  CITIZEN LEGISLATURE OR REQUIRING MORE DISCLOSURE FROM  LOBBYISTS.

WHY IS ETHICS AND TRANSPARENCY  SO HARD FOR US?

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

>> Onsurez: I THINK IT IS JUST WHAT WE DISCUSSED BEFORE, THAT  LONG-STANDING TRADITION AND CULTURE OF THESE TWO BODIES.

TRANSPARENCY IS HARD.

IT IS HARD WORK.

YOU REALLY HAVE TO HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AS SOMETHING THAT IS FAIR ACROSS  AND EASY TO EXECUTE, BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU  KNOW, A LOT OF INFORMATION HERE.

THE QUESTION, WHY IS IT SO HARD?

THERE IS A LOT OF PUSH BACK AS WELL.

THERE ARE SOME BODIES, PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WOULD LIKE TO  KEEP SOME OF THESE THINGS, AS YOU SAY, BEHIND THE CURTAIN,  JUST EASIER FOR THEM.

BUT, ALSO, I THINK THAT ONE OF  THE THINGS TO KNOW IN THIS CONVERSATION IS HOW MUCH MORE  WE ARE TALKING ABOUT  TRANSPARENCY AND ACCESS NOT ONLY FOR JOURNALISTS LIKE US  BUT FOR THE PUBLIC THEMSELVES WHO ARE INTERESTED IN FINDING  OUT MORE ABOUT HOW THESE -- HOW THEIR LOCAL AND STATE  WORKS.

>> Gene: ANDY LYMAN FROM NEW  MEXICO POLITICAL REPORT, INTERESTING, OPEN PRIMARIES  FAILED.

AS DID HOLDING PRIMARIES FOR  SPECIAL ELECTIONS LIKE CD1 RACE WE HAVE COMING UP FOR  HAALAND'S SEAT.

DO WE HAVE AN EFFECTIVE  PRIMARY SYSTEM NOW OR DOES IT TOO HEAVILY FAVOR INSIDERS AS  IT STANDS?

>> Lyman: AS FAR AS THE  SPECIAL ELECTION GOES, IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT  REALLY ONLY COMES UP -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY  EVER THOUGHT ABOUT LOOKING AT THE LAW UNTIL, OF COURSE, NOW  IT COMES UP THAT HOW OFTEN DOES THE SITUATION HAPPEN.

AND I THINK IT IS KIND OF SPLIT.

I THINK THAT THERE IS SOME FOLKS THAT WOULD RATHER IT  STAY THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOT CANDIDATES WHO ARE  JUST INDEPENDENTLY WEALTHY, RIGHT?

THEY CAN COME OUT OF THE GATE AND SELL THEMSELVES TO THE  CENTRAL COMMITTEE AS THE PERSON WITH THE MOST MONEY,  EASIEST, FASTEST FUNDRAISER.

ON THE OTHER HAND SORT OF  GENERALLY SPEAKING, YEAH, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE  DON'T EVEN GET TO PICK THIS PERSON, SO, NOW, YOU KNOW, IT  GOES BACK TO THE OPEN PRIMARY THING WHICH, BY THE WAY, I  THINK IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT IS GOING TO TAKE A  FEW MORE YEARS TO WORK OUT.

SORT OF THE SLOW BURN, SO TO  SPEAK.

>> Gene: DAN BOYD, LAST WORD  ON THAT SUBJECT, ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

>> Boyd: A COUPLE QUICK ONES.

I WAS GOING TO MENTION, THE  STATE DID RECENTLY CREATE A NEW ETHICS COMMISSION AND  PASSED MORE DISCLOSURE RULES FOR INDEPENDENT EXPENDITURES.

I THINK SOMETIMES THERE IS A SENTIMENT THAT WE TOOK THESE  BIG STEPS, LET'S GIVE IT A FEW YEARS, SEE HOW THEY WORK, AND  IF WE NEED TO COME BACK MAKE TWEAKS, BUT THIS IS AN ONGOING  CONVERSATION AND CERTAINLY WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE LAST OF IT.

>> Gene: WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANKS TO EACH OF YOU FOR YOUR  THOUGHTS TODAY AND FOR YOUR WORK DURING THE SESSION.

NOW THAT THE SESSION IS IN THE  REARVIEW MIRROR, IF YOU'RE NOT COUNTING CANNABIS, HOW SHOULD  WE CONSIDER THE RESULTS?

AS YOU HEARD FROM PANELISTS,  WHILE SOME THINGS PASSED, MANY IMPACTFUL PIECES OF  LEGISLATION WERE NEVER CONSIDERED LET ALONE HEARD.

WHICH IS WHY WATCHING OUR ELECTED FOLKS CELEBRATE THIS  SESSION WITH A TOUCHDOWN DANCE LEFT MANY OF US GRINDING OUR  TEETH IN SILENT FRUSTRATION AGAIN.

PERHAPS IT IS NOW TIME TO FINALLY HAVE THAT SERIOUS  CONVERSATION OF SOME SORT OF TIME EXTENSION FOR SESSIONS.

MY NUMBER IS FOUR TO SIX MONTHS, IF FULL-TIME IS TOO  BIG A BITE TO SWALLOW, CURRENTLY.

YOU MIGHT RECALL A BILL TO HAVE OUR EVEN YEAR SESSIONS GO  TO 45 DAYS.

THAT IS NOT A FIX TO ME BUT IT  IS AN EFFORT WHICH BRINGS ME BACK TO ADULT USE RECREATIONAL  CANNABIS AND THE NEED FOR A SPECIAL SESSION.

ALL RIGHT,  WATCHING EXHAUSTED AND ANNOYED LEGISLATORS TRYING TO WORK  SOMETHING SO COMPLEX, SO IMPACTFUL, AT SOME POINT HAS  TO BE VIEWED AS AN UNACCEPTABLE WAY TO MAKE  IMPORTANT LEGISLATION.

WE DESERVE BETTER.

WE DESERVE LAWMAKERS WHO MAKE LAW WITHOUT A TICKING CLOCK,  WE DESERVE A LEGISLATURE THAT IS OPPORTUNISTIC, AGILE AND  RESPONSIVE.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN  60 OR 90 DAYS.

AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO LET THESE FOLKS  KNOW, THE WAY WE DO IT NOW IS OUT OF STEP WITH THE WORLD AND  THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

THANKS AGAIN FOR STAYING  INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT, WEEK  IN FOCUS.

>>   FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY THE  MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.