CATHY HAS THE NIGHT OFF AND MARY LAHAMMER JOINS US.

>> MARY: THANKS, ERIC.

WE START TONIGHT WITH FEEDING OUR FUTURE.

THURSDAY, THE OFFICE OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR RELEASED A REPORT ON FEEDING OUR FUTURE AND PRESENTED IT TO LAWMAKERS.

THE KEY FINDING, THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION'S LACK OF OVERSIGHT ENABLED FRAUDULENT BEHAVIOR.

EARLIER IN THE WEEK, A SEPARATE AUDIT RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT THE FRAUDULENT PRONE "HERO CHECKS" PROGRAM, THE STATE PAYMENTS TO FRONT-LINE WORKERS DURING COVID.

IT'S BEEN A BUSY WEEK FOR THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR AND HER OFFICE, JUDY RANDALL.

WELCOME BACK.

GO THANK YOU FOR MAKING TIME BECAUSE YOU'LL HAVE TO SLEEP AT SOME POINT.

WOW.

BOTH OF THESE ARE PANDEMIC-ERA PROGRAMS.

I THINK CONTEXT IS WHAT WE DO AND THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT CONTEXT HERE, ISN'T IT?

TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

>> >> YES AND NO.

THE FEEDING OUR FUTURE SCANDAL, I GUESS FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, THOSE CHILD NUTRITION PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES AND WHAT WE FOUND IN OUR REPORT IS THAT THE INADEQUATE OVERSIGHT STARTED WELL ABOVE THE PANDEMIC.

REALLY, WE SAW ISSUES STARTING IN 2018 WHERE THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DIDN'T TAKE THE NECESSARY ACTION TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ABOUT NEEDING OUR FUTURE AND DIDN'T INVESTIGATE THEM OR REFERRED THE COMPLAINTS TO FEEDING OUR FUTURE TO INVESTIGATE ITSELF.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC, SO THAT'S FEEDING OUR FUTURE.

ON THE FRONT-LINE WORKER PAY PROGRAM, YES, THOSE WERE PANDEMIC-ERA BONUS CHECKS, IF YOU WILL, BUILT THE PROGRAM WAS IMPLEMENTED IN '22 SO WE WERE NO LONGER IN THE HEIGHT OR PANIC OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> Eric: IS THE MINDSET FROM THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE LEGISLATURE GET THE MONEY OUT THE DOOR AND WHATEVER HAPPENS WILL BE WHATEVER HAPPENS, OR... >> WELL, I CERTAINLY CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE MINDSET OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT I CAN SAY IS THERE WERE DITCH SITUATIONS.

THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, HONESTLY, I THINK THEY WERE ILL-PREPARED.

THEY REALLY TRUSTED PEOPLE.

THEY WORKED WITH PEOPLE, TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, PARTNERS.

FOR DOLI, I THINK THERE WAS A RUSH THERE.

THEY FELT A LOT OF URGENCY TO GET THE MONEY OUT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

>> Eric: IF I INTERPRET WHAT YOU SAID IN THE HEARING THE OTHER DAY, IT'S TIME FOR A CULTURE CHANGE THAT STATE AGENCIES CAN'T BE YOUR GOOD BUDDY AND YOUR PARTNER, THAT YOU NEED A LITTLE ADULT SUPERVISION.

IS THAT FAIR OR -- >> IT IS FAIR.

I DID SAY THAT.

I THINK THAT THERE'S REALLY A TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, WE'RE PARTNERS, WE WORK TOGETHER, WE EXPECT COOPERATION AND THAT'S FINE FOR SOME OF WHAT STATE AGENCIES DO BUILT THERE IS A REGULATORY OVERSIGHT FUNCTION THAT WE ALL EXPECT FROM STATE AGENCIES AND IN MANY STATE AGENCIES, WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT MINDSET OR THAT SKILL SET.

>> Mary: ALSO IN THAT COMMITTEE, THOSE MOMENTS BIPARTISAN OUTRAGE EALLY FROM LAWMAKERS, A COUPLE OF REALLY COLORFUL QUOTES, ONE LAWMAKER SAID RED FLAG SO BRIGHT IT WAS BLINDING.

ANOTHER, OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE AISLE, SAID, YOU KNOW, THE BUCK IS STILT RUNNING DOWN THE STREET AND NOT GOING WAY, NOT BEING STOPPED.

SO WHERE DOES THE BUCK STOP?

THAT RAISES AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE THE COMMISSIONER GOING BACK TO THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, IT'S A DIFFERENT COMMISSIONER.

>> IT IS A DIFFERENT COMMISSIONER AND THEY'VE HAD A LOT OF NEW STAFF THERE AT THE DEPARTMENTS OF EDUCATION.

I THINK IT'S FOR THE PUBLIC TO DECIDE WHERE THE BUCK STOPS.

I MEAN, ALL WE DO IS WE GO IN, WE GET THE FACTS AND WE -- >> Mary: WAS IT CHALLENGING WITH SO MANY KEY PLAYERS NOT THERE ANYMORE?

>> IT WAS A LITTLE CHALLENGING.

WE FOCUS ON DOCUMENTATION AND EVIDENCE AND THAT SHOULDN'T CHANGE WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, THE LEADERSHIP CHANGES.

>> Eric: LETS ME DIRECT TO YOU A SEPTEMBER, 22nd OF LAST YEAR QUOTE FROM GOVERNOR WALZ.

WE CAUGHT THIS FRAUD FEEDING OUR FUTURE VERY EARLY.

WE ALERTED THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

TRUE?

>> THAT'S NOT WHAT WE FOUND.

THAT'S NOT HAT WE FOUND.

I MEAN, WE CERTAINLY DON'T THINK THEY CAUGHT IT EARLY, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE SAY THERE WERE RED FLAGS STARTING IN 2018.

THEY ALERTED USDA OIG, THIS IS A USDA PROGRAM -- >> Eric: SUPERVISED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION HERE.

>> SO IT'S FEDERAL MONEY, USDA THAT COMES DOWN TO THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION THAT THEN GOES OUT.

SO THEY ALERTED USDA, OIG IN THE FALL OF 2020 WITH CONCERNS, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER, OF 2020 WITH CONCERNS.

IN FEBRUARY OF '21, F.B.I.

THEN REACHES OUT TO MDE.

MDE STAFF TOLD US THEY THOUGHT THAT WAS USDA, OIG NOTIFYING THE FBI COMING TO THEM, I DON'T KNOW, AND THEN IN APRIL OF MUCH 21, THERE IS A MEETING OF MDE-FARE F.B.I., WE DON'T KNOW WHO INITIATED THAT.

WE DIDN'T SEE ANY DOCUMENTATION OR EVIDENCE THAT MDE REACHED OUT O F.B.I.

>> Mary: IN LIGHT OF BOTH OF THESE AND THE BUSINESS THAT YOU'RE HAVING PROBING THIS AND IS THERE SOMETHING TO -- WE HEAR ONE SIDE OF THE AISLE IS LOOKING FOR WASTE, FRAUD, ABUSE, MAYBE A NEW OFFICERS, AN OBUDSMAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK GOING FORWARD COULD CHANGE IN STATE GOVERNMENT TO PREVENT FRAUD ON THIS SCALE?

THIS IS THE LARGEST PANDEMIC FAILED IN AMERICA.

>> LET'S HOPE WE NEVER SEE THIS TYPE OF FRAUD AGAIN AND LET'S HOPE THAT FOLKS IN THE AGENCIES ARE A LITTLE MORE CRITICAL, A LITTLE MORE SKEPTICAL OF WHAT THEY SEE.

>> Mary: IS THAT ENOUGH, THOUGH?

WOULD YOU RECOMMEND SOMETHING BIGGER AND BROADER FOR GOVERNMENT?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK I NEED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT THOSE IDEAS ARE BEING PROPOSED AND THINK ABOUT IT.

I DO THINK WE NEED TO UP EVERYBODY'S GAME A LITTLE BIT.

>> Eric: JUDY