Tom: Welcome to perspectives on line and on air from WFSU public media.

I'm Tom Flanagan this program using the zoom platform, of course, pre recorded Tom: On Tuesday, October six for playback on Thursday, October eighth.

The show appearing on both WFSU FM and the WFSU Public Media Facebook.

Tom: Page.

This is our fifth and final program and a series of Political Perspectives ahead of the November 3 general election and today we'll talk about the proposed local referendum, creating Tom: A taxpayer supported Children's Services counsel from Leon county will begin with a panel of proponents and then l ater on we hear from some folks who are urging a no vote on the proposal.

Tom: So let's start with those in favor of the Council proposal, we Tom: Will say hi first, to LaShawn Gordon director of membership and engagement for United partners for human services.

That's an association.

Tom: That represents, the human services sector and she's been involved in nonprofit management community engagement for low many, many years.

Well, Lashawn.

Thanks for joining us today.

Lashawn Gordon: Thank you, Tom, for having me and good to see everyone, I'm so I am very much so supporter of bringing the Children Services Council here to Leon County.

Lashawn Gordon: One of the things that we like to say in the nonprofit and the human service sector is the power of the collective Lashawn Gordon: And I'm of the opinion that the Children Services council.

It's a collective hub.

It's like a mate hole for me.

I see it Sydney.

It's sitting at the center.

Lashawn Gordon: Of all of the children service organizations serving organizations.

And so here, and Leon County we have so many entities, working with our children.

Lashawn Gordon: Are precious gems, but there is not one place that is looking over being responsible for the well being of the children and the families.

Lashawn Gordon: And so I think that's one of the things that we're missing here.

What is that one place that's going to always be looking out for the well being of our kids.

Lashawn Gordon: That is so, so, so important.

I think from a prevention standpoint prevention starts with families and you cannot do prevention work without including the family and so Lashawn Gordon: The family starts the way our family starts off.

It doesn't start off the right way.

We all know Lashawn Gordon: That a child can get caught up in what I like to call generational curses.

And so I think by providing that family support and engagement.

Lashawn Gordon: Through the Children Services Council and the entities that they're going to be working with.

We have an opportunity to really, really, really change the trajectory of the of the children's lives in the community.

You know, I also think Lashawn Gordon: There is a need for the key players to feel like they have a place to go to for advocacy for policy work when it pertains to children.

Right.

Lashawn Gordon: So this is all things children and I want to stress that right this is strictly about the kids in a strictly about the kids and that boys is definitely missing.

Lashawn Gordon: We also have a lot of grassroots in route entities here and I am excited about funding coming in that those agencies can apply for right Lashawn Gordon: You know I meet so many people every single day and they say, Hey, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years I've been feeding these kids out of my house or my car I'm working with single moms, but they don't have any funding.

Lashawn Gordon: And the pot of funding here locally is so small, for the sector, right, we need more funding and it is exciting.

Lashawn Gordon: That grassroot organizations will have that opportunity.

We don't need a one pot shot of money.

We need continual funds coming in this community.

Lashawn Gordon: Because you know what happened with one shot pots of money is just that they come in for a point of time.

Lashawn Gordon: And then when they're not there anymore.

There's no true sustainability for those entities that it was given to you.

Lashawn Gordon: So this is going to be amazing, because this is going to be long term funding that is going to focus directly on kids.

I'm also one of those people.

That's really big on Community, community engagement is a passion point for me.

And so through a lot of the work I've done over the years.

Lashawn Gordon: Working statewide.

I've seen that I've seen the Council's in the various different cities be able to really, really engage the community through several different initiatives.

Lashawn Gordon: And one of the things that is so powerful about that.

Right.

So when we do community engagement.

There is no one one type of community engagement that works for everyone.

You have to have several different initiatives going on in the community.

Lashawn Gordon: At all different times.

And so I'm excited about that.

I'm excited to see what initiatives that we can bring in this community.

Lashawn Gordon: The last thing I'll say, because it's a passion point and I can run with this thing for a very long time is Lashawn Gordon: We don't have time to sit back and say, shoulda coulda woulda.

And what about this.

What about that.

We have to do something immediately.

Lashawn Gordon: If we're going to really, really interrupt the generational curses and impact the generations of children to come Lashawn Gordon: So we need to put our efforts behind bring in the Children Services council to Leon County.

We need to get behind this thing we need to support it.

Lashawn Gordon: We need to hold our grassroot organizations up so that they continue to do the great work and also hold those that have been doing the work for years and years accountable.

Thank you.

Tom: Thank you, Lashawn Gordon, director of membership and engagement for United partners for human services.

Tom: Let's go to Michelle Watson and she is the chief executive officer, the newly named full blown Chief Executive Officer of Florida's children's Council representing Tom: It's an association that represents children's council in other parts of Florida, we have how many Now Michelle are there seven councils in Florida.

What's the total we have now.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: We have seven independent Children's Services councils and too dependent children.

Children Services councils in manatee and Jacksonville.

Tom: Okay, so how are they working where they now exist.

And how do you see it working here in Leon County.

If we adopt it.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Absolutely.

So, you know, from a statewide perspective.

We've seen the model, just so that you own understand our youngest children services Council right now as a lateral that was adopted in Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And then our second youngest children services Council is 18 years old, all the way to 74 years which is our juvenile welfare board.

And so one of the things that we Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Have been hearing locally, is the fact that, you know, they're concerned about the board member makeup that these are going to be appointed by Governor just anticipate this and this and be Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Able to do his will, or his duty and very clearly, the statute says that, first of all, the board membership must represent a demographic diversity of that county Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: All of those applicants must go before the county commission Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And the county commission then must send three applicants per seat once they've approved that so there is definitely parameters around making sure that the applicants in Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Or have children services Council are representative of the community of neighborhoods and of those people.

So I just really hope that people will look closely into the statute.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Section 125 901 to really get that information so that they understand that it is not necessarily a governor's appointee without any contingencies.

There are a lot of other checks and balances built into that.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Obviously with anywhere from 18 to 74 years worth of programming those councils have been able to navigate.

Many, many political parties.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Over the years in leadership and out of leadership and I've still continued to do the work.

Also, as you know, they have to go back up for referendum, as of the last referendum.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: That most of our counties participated past with bipartisan support of 76% or higher, so that their communities actually found the value in the services.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And very much as that conduit, the Maypole that we just heard about.

I like to call her CSC communities in the CSC is air.

Air traffic controllers right they bring in all of the services they understand that a lot of their Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Service providers get state funding, but that state funding is not flexible right that it has, it has to meet federal rules, it has to meet state guidelines as well as Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: State administrative rule.

There's no flexibility in that state funding to augment it to build a better system.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And that's where the CSC really can come in from a system development perspective, see all of the pieces and parts that each service provider plays Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And figures out how to get them to work together so that there can be a really efficient system as we move forward and so Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: If you want to find out more information every CSC has to file an annual report that is on their websites, every single one of their budgets is Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Placed on their websites as well in total transparency, there's truth in millage hearings that happen or trim hearings.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: That help you understand exactly how much money the CSC would get and where those dollars go and all of the initiatives around family strengthening around juvenile justice around school readiness and early learning the Florida children's Council produced an outcomes report and Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Looking at all the interventions that CSC had funded from a point in time and found that they had made great games in the ability to reduce the Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Instances of things such as out of home care placements for child welfare.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Juvenile arrest moving forward.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And so what we also found is because some of our communities are very large when you're looking at Miami Palm Beach Broward is when you move population data over time in those really large communities you actually move statewide population data.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: So there is going to be a large effect on the overall state as these communities work together to address.

No need and issues.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And the last thing that we've heard a lot about his child will being the child well being index and that family that Leon County is doing better than CSC communities.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: I asked that you actually go back and look at that child well being index in conjunction with a statute.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And some of those indicators on that child well being index or things that have CSC will never be able to control an impact, such as the unemployment rate.

The high housing burden.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: The number of children in single parent families.

Those are data's and data and metrics.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: This UC community does not have necessarily purview over in the statute.

And so it's really hard to lift them up and show the difference between a CSC community and a non CSC community.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: When CSC can affect every one of the metrics within that child well being and decks.

So all that I'm asking as the Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: CEO of the Florida children's Council is please do your research, feel free to reach out to us will be happy to get you information, make sure that you are Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Getting correct information and really educating yourself on the power of the CSC and what it can mean for this community before you cast your vote.

Tom: Thank you, Michelle.

Watson, the newly named chief executive officer of the Florida children's Council Association statewide Dianne Williams cocktail as a city, Commissioner, and MAYOR PRO TEM rejoins us here and Tom: Ma'am, what your take.

Why does the city of Tallahassee, and by extension of Leon county need, in your opinion, a children's services Council.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Thank you for the question.

Tom and thank you.

I'll put opportunity to share my thoughts.

Dianne Williams-Cox: On this the residents in the city of Tallahassee we deserve the best we deserve the best that we can afford and the event includes the littlest of our residents.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Many of them are in situations that have no fault of their own, they they're there, and we can just continue to go on as if nothing is happening.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Or we can reach back and try to help, I believe that we need to invest on the front end, we need to invest early in in their children's lives so that we don't have to invest on the back end dealing with juvenile justice dealing with the correctional institutions.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Taking care of our children.

We need to do that ourselves.

and I'll say it many times here in Tallahassee Dianne Williams-Cox: Everything we need to to squash poverty to squash the under education or the mis education of many of our children and the Miss.

Miss care about children it resides right here in Dianne Williams-Cox: The city of Tallahassee in Leon County.

We just have to we have to have that we have to have not.

So we need to have to help the have nots.

Dianne Williams-Cox: And so I'm willing to pay a little bit more in my property taxes if it's going to help Little Johnny Dianne Williams-Cox: A little Johnny, I get to where they need to get to, because if we don't invest in them on the front end, they're going to grow up without some of the things that they really need for profit growth and for proper Dianne Williams-Cox: Progression in life to be able to get a job and to be able to have a successful life.

Dianne Williams-Cox: I was able to provide that that kind of life for my children.

And I'm willing to provide that kind of life for other people's children.

I am Dianne Williams-Cox: Just kind of personal to me because the pictures that you see behind me.

The first picture of the lady there.

That's my grandmother, she would have been 112 years old.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Last month, she could not read a right but she poured her life into us and made sure that we went to school and got a quality education.

She was home she made sure we had three square meals.

Dianne Williams-Cox: We had a garden.

So we have fresh vegetables.

So we need we need that kind of structure in our, in our with our kids and because of that.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Most of us grew up to be, you know, very productive citizens if we chose to be the picture above that is a picture of my dad.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Who was a educator.

He was a coach and an educator, he to poured into my life.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Later in my life and he helped me to understand what a quality education would do, he motivated me to want to do more.

So Dianne Williams-Cox: I'm just two generations away from where some of our children are today and we don't need to return there, we need to Dianne Williams-Cox: Keep going forward, we need to help our children and the city will be better for the county will be better for it and the state would be better for it.

And more importantly, the families where these children reside and where they will grow and thrive will be better for it.

Tom: Thank you, Diane Williams Cox over the Tallahassee City Commission certainly one of the Tom: proscriptions in the proposed to Children's Services Council is healthcare Marco Brian, the CEO of Tallahassee Memorial health care and joins us right now and Sir, what's your take on Tom: How this would impact the health and well being of children who need health care, not only a TM.

Ah, but through any provider here in Leon County.

Mark OBryant: Well, when we look at the needs of the community.

We look at it in in the aggregate, what are the needs of the community, what are the needs of the community.

What makes a healthy community.

Mark OBryant: We, as a country, used to be known for having long term visions for being strategic thinkers and investing in our infrastructure.

We've gotten away from that to a large degree.

Mark OBryant: And going back to a term that Diane use the CSC is a way for us to go back to that to focus on the long term outlook of our community specifically Mark OBryant: Tallahassee, what we need to realize what people sometimes forget is that you can't have a successful community.

We can't have a successful Tallahassee and component parts.

Mark OBryant: We can only be successful as a whole.

And if we ignore that we're going to continue to have the problems that we have today, or by talks about all these problems that we're dealing with.

Mark OBryant: Well, if we keep doing the same things over and over and continue to have them.

We're going to start looking at the needs of the community as a whole and addressing them, not just in component sections of town, but throughout the whole thing.

Mark OBryant: One of the things that CSC allows us to do is to invest in an area where we have great needs and that is an area of our children, our children will be our future workforce.

I look at this as not just and then an investment.

Mark OBryant: In the community and the long term.

It's just, it's a basic business investment with a great return on workforce.

Mark OBryant: You know if Sheriff McNeil was on the line with us today, he would tell us that you can forecast number of jail cells you need Mark OBryant: By looking at ninth grade truancy rates.

You can work that out in the years beyond well ninth grade truancy rates have an immediate direct correlation to third grade reading scores well third grade reading scores were the people want to recognize not relates to early childhood development.

Mark OBryant: 80% of brain development happens in the first three years of life 90% happens in the first five years of life.

Mark OBryant: If you don't do that, then these kids aren't going to be able to read in the third grade, and then they're going to have truancy higher truancy rates in the ninth grade and they're going to be incarcerated, as adults, later on.

Mark OBryant: Those are people who could be a viable part of our workforce.

Mark OBryant: In other words, if we want to change what we're doing.

If we want to give people an economic alternative to crime, we have to give these kids a fighting chance.

And that's what we're talking about what the CSC Mark OBryant: Investing dollars now to help our community develop a platform for early childhood development for childhood support in other areas, of course, but really helping them be able to progress to the point where they can be productive active members of our community.

Mark OBryant: Is Diane mentioned education is the great equalizer.

Mark OBryant: And if we want to create a healthy community.

We've got to create a healthy community for the entirety of our population.

Mark OBryant: Not just parts.

The reason why a CSC is important is because I hear the argument.

Well, this should be the county's responsibility or should be the seas responsibility.

There are many organizations out there.

Mark OBryant: But all of those organizations have a a plethora of responsibilities they get can be easily distracted by the events of the day.

Mark OBryant: Whereas the CSC is targeted long term on one thing they wake up every morning thinking I'm nothing but how to improve the health, the quality of life, the development of children, they go to bed thinking the same thing.

They're not subject to a short term.

Mark OBryant: Timeframe they're able to think long, long periods out there, able to look at outcomes, not just short term but long term and it's a inability, it will give us a focused ability Mark OBryant: Basically, not having distractions of the day, stick to the side will allow us to help develop a long term outcome that will give us returns as a community.

Mark OBryant: In quality of life in the better workforce reduced crime, but really, most importantly, just get these kids fighting chance to be successful in life and that's what anybody should want children.

Tom: Thank you.

Marco Brian, just a few minutes remaining in the segment of the program, folks.

I wanted to throw out just a Tom: Few questions that had come up relative to this discussion and it'll be dealer's choice, whomever wants to jump in on it absolutely have added Tom: The proposed increase in the ad valorem the property tax rate would generate somewhere around $8 million dollars, at least for the first year.

Tom: And I've heard some folks say, my gosh.

That seems like a drop in the bucket that isn't enough to do much of anything is, is that enough at least to get the local Children's Services Council started and focused on its main priorities, at least during that first year.

Lashawn Gordon: So I'll, I'll jump in.

So I'm a really big foundation person right sustainability is super important.

Lashawn Gordon: So the conversations that I've been having with people is in that first year, it really is about sustainability.

And so I do think that $8 million is enough to get a good foundation going and it takes money.

Lashawn Gordon: To build a solid foundation.

And so I think it will grow it will advance but in that first year I absolutely do think that that's enough.

And I do think as a home owner Lashawn Gordon: Property taxes fluctuate any year every year anyway.

And so for me, I do think there will be an increase, but I don't think the increase will be so painful that we won't be able to absorb it.

Tom: Okay, I'm sure.

Watson had mentioned this earlier.

As far as the organization under statute, which has set up the children's councils throughout Florida but Tom: Some talk of an unelected bureaucracy top heavy with administrative costs and know is that the experience of other children's councils are they run pretty lean and mean, how does that operate Michelle.

Absolutely.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: No, they actually are very lean and mean they are very efficient in their practices, like I said, you can go online and look at their budgets, most of their administrative costs are less than 5% Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: They truly look at their role as being system development.

How do you bring those individual service providers together to think through systemic change so collective impact over time.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: absolutely right that the results are not going to be immediate.

You're not going to get $8 million and solve all the Community's problems.

It's going to be a long term investment.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Before you get a real outcome.

But what you'll be able to see is St.

Lucie County, for example, is the county that is most likely on county in demographics in income in housing and their CSC just celebrated their 30th year anniversary Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: They started out below the state average in Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: Almost 15 metrics and 30 years later, they're now above the state average and all but two so very just focused commitment to solving an issue.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: And and making sure that there is outcomes and accountability, which is part of the statute as well CSC are responsible for outcomes and research to make sure that the money that they're investing is working and making an impact.

Michele Watson, Florida Children's Council: If not, they need to go back, they need to make sure that what they're funding is absolutely aligned to the mission.

And that's why CSC us have been so able to meet the needs of their community and really move population data over time.

Okay.

Tom: Yes, go ahead.

Mark.

Mark OBryant: I think one of the things that I think it's been pointed out, and people will recognize this, but the fact that CSS across the state, continue to be voted back into place.

Mark OBryant: Term after term is highly important.

In fact, when they go back in front of the voters after they've been establishing communities.

Mark OBryant: It's not just a win in the column for the CSS.

It's a huge win by overwhelming majorities, which is a testament that they actually do have an impact.

Mark OBryant: And people see a need and are willing to invest those dollars back into the communities.

I think that tracker track record.

Mark OBryant: says a lot $8 million is not a lot of money in today's world, but if we stay focused and as Michelle says if we if we have an outcomes based which will be outcomes based Mark OBryant: In its approach and we're transparent and those outcomes back to the community I'm convinced that this will not just pass.

Now, but in the future.

The community will will gain an understanding and appreciation for it or to continue for decades to come.

Tom: Thank you, Mark.

And then the one minute that we have left the final question goes to you.

Diana Williams Cox, this issue.

Tom: Has kind of roiled the community, there's a lot of controversy out there.

You don't even have unanimous support for it on your own city Commission without name checking, how would you take your colleague aside and say, Hey, here's why you should support the Children's Services Council.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Well, I'll just say this.

Your, your view, you know, your viewpoint is going to be from where you sit.

Dianne Williams-Cox: I've had these experiences I've worked with these children in the community.

I've seen the need.

I've seen the unmet need Dianne Williams-Cox: And I would encourage our colleagues to to do the same thing for 30 years I've worked in our community at the street level.

Dianne Williams-Cox: Of and have seen these children and you want to just hug them and take them all home with you, but you can't.

But here's an opportunity where you can send a hug home with them to make sure that they get what they need.

So I think that we just need to Dianne Williams-Cox: take the blinders off and look closer and see the real need in our communities and it let's let's not let's just talk about the elephant in the room.

We're talking about black and brown children also don't like me.

Dianne Williams-Cox: I've know a lot about children like me.

And so I would just encourage others to really pay attention to that.

And I think that Dianne Williams-Cox: Knowing that I received a call the other day that the NAACP Executive Committee has endorsed the CSC.

So I think that we just really need to Dianne Williams-Cox: Get beyond ourselves.

And let's think about the children ones who really, really need the help our medium I caught my colleagues and others, they'll be able to take care of their children.

Dianne Williams-Cox: But there are those out there who won't be able to take care of their children.

They wouldn't need help.

Tom: Thank you, ma'am, and we thank our proponent panelists Dianne Williams Cox and we just heard from LaShawn Gordon.

Tom: Michelle Watson and Marco, Brian.

Coming up next, we'll speak with some folks who have objections to the Children Services Council proposal all coming up on perspectives from WFSU public media.

Tom: We're back on perspectives and our discussion of the proposed Leon county Children's Services Council, which appears on next month's ballot.

Tom: Factor got it right here.

Tom: And it even says, should the Children Services Council of Leon county be established to provide Tom: Children with early learning and reading skills development treatment preventative and other children services in Leon county as a special district with ad valorem taxing authority limited Tom: To one half mil annually and independent oversight and accountability, as required by law.

That is the actual formal ballot language there we welcome.

Tom: To talk about some reservations to that proposal Barney Bishop, the third long time Tallahassee lobbyist and advocate former president and CEO of associated industries of Florida.

Tom: A host of prestigious board memberships and your background, Barney.

Thank you so much for coming on and and we appreciate that, sir.

Barney Bishop III: Happy to be here.

Tom: We also say hi to Emily Fritz retired executive director of the Florida Optometric Association.

Tom: Leadership Tallahassee grad involved with local politics as a past candidate for both city and county commissions and astute observer and commentator on public policy issues in our town and Emily.

It's a delight to see you too.

Emily Fritz: I cannot appreciate the invitation.

Tom: Well you folks have been out on the hustings voicing some reservations, some objections, you have to the proposal, I just read this is going to appear on the ballot November 3 and Tom: That start with you, Emily.

If we could give us a summation of again who could be against children and services that will be provided to us, but you've got some very pointed questions about how that is going to happen to talk about those.

Emily Fritz: Well, I don't know anybody who's against children services.

The we oppose the Children Services Council, but we support children.

By all means.

Emily Fritz: The problem with the Children's Services Council is that it is an independent body.

It's basically we creating a new branch of government.

Emily Fritz: And the people who leave this new branch of government are not elected.

Emily Fritz: We elect 100% of our city Commissioners our county commissioners our school board, but this will be another local government body that is not elected.

Emily Fritz: Which means that if you do or do not like have these finger money or do not think that the children surfaces Council is affected, you cannot vote, the people out of office.

Emily Fritz: You are stuck for 12 years and Children's Services councils have not been proven to be effective across the state.

The Leon County, the, excuse me, the Emily Fritz: Child well being index, which I have here.

It ranks all the counties every year on there from one to 67.

This is done by the University of South Florida.

Emily Fritz: USF doesn't have a dog in this fight, and they collect data from all sorts of issues, education, health, economic issues juvenile justice.

Emily Fritz: And Leon county ranks higher than six than seven of the nine counties that have CSC.

In fact, the oldest child.

Children Services Council is Pinellas which is 74 years old.

It collects four times the amount of money, then the Leon County.

Emily Fritz: CSC will collect per child and they rank 13 spots before below Leon County.

So when you hear that CSC or this wonderful effective to the data does not support that.

Tom: Okay, Barney Bishop.

I know that you have some objections to this to before we get started peeling back the layers of the onion just off the top of your head.

What are the main things that you say need a second, maybe even a third look on this proposal before anyone votes for Barney Bishop III: Your tongue and what you're really looking at in an overview since is that number one after 18 months we look at a report they claim it's 100 pages long and technically it is there's only 24 pages of substance.

Barney Bishop III: That report could have been written by Emily, or I ahead of time, it would, it couldn't take it as maybe a week to do.

There's nothing earth shattering in there.

The problem with that 24 pages is there's no plan.

Barney Bishop III: On how to spend the money.

There's no targeting other than in very general terms, there's no call for evidence based programming.

There's no requirement for benchmarks or outcomes to be met in order to get the dollars and the proponents tell us that the Barney Bishop III: Local not for profits that are providing services to children and families aren't doing a good job now Emily is done an Barney Bishop III: Exhaustive research or 18 months she has found over $200 million annually being spent by federal, state, local government.

Barney Bishop III: private donors to help nonprofits deliver services to children and families.

So we're spending more than $200 million.

Why is a million dollars more going to make a difference.

Barney Bishop III: And in fact, if you say as the proponents do Tom that the local not for profits aren't making the art moving the needle.

Barney Bishop III: Then why.

Why would you possibly give them another $8 million and say, Go out and do good work.

It doesn't make sense.

You can't throw good money.

Barney Bishop III: After what you call bad money that's already being spent.

And so if there's no plan.

There's no accountability.

Barney Bishop III: No, it's taxation without representation, then this is a blank check and that's the name of Emily's Committee, which is the note blank check committee.

Barney Bishop III: And we have a hashtag no blank check.

And that's really the fundamental in a 30,000 foot view the problems that are notorious in this report for what it doesn't say is reason to defeat this at the polls under the butter.

Tom: Already Barney and will also make mention of the fact that it's not just Emily Frantz and Barney Bishop who have some objections here.

Tom: Originally we had also slated to have Tallahassee city, Commissioner, Jeremy Matlow to come on.

He had a last minute conflict and sent his apologies.

Tom: Along with a partial statement in which he voiced.

Some of these same concerns regarding budget accountability, that sort of thing.

And Tom: Emily Fritz, we can go back to you, just for a moment that one of the things that the proponents had been bringing up is the fact that Tom: Yes, over all Leon county may be in pretty decent shape when it comes to providing children's services through existing organizations such as whole child Leon Tom: And healthy start coalition and you've also got, of course, on the state level, the Department of Children and Families and juvenile justice and all those kinds of resources.

Tom: That can work into this too, but there are some very specifically targeted areas.

Again, the infamous 32304 area code, which has the highest degree of I guess unfunded Tom: Needs in the entire state of Florida, to a large degree, and that that's what this services council would be able to focus on more quickly, then those other organizations.

Talk about that, if you will.

Emily Fritz: And I beg to differ on that.

Keep in mind that if this passes in November, then we have to wait for the appointments Emily Fritz: Which first come the county commission has to submit a slate of nominees to the governor that will take six to eight months.

Then they then the committee has to meet.

They have to develop some plans.

They don't start collecting money until the until, until basically Emily Fritz: Property tax bills will go out in November of 2021 so by the time in, and then they have to go through an RFP process where they solicit the bids to the nonprofits and then they respond Emily Fritz: This is just getting it set up will probably take 18 months just to get moving.

I like to account, he's passed in 2018 and they've only been operational about in in earnest for about six months.

Emily Fritz: So to say that the CSC will do it faster I disagree with that the city and county commission have the authority to children's programs now they've already got their budgets for this coming year.

But there are other things we can do.

Emily Fritz: We can make our CI SP process much more efficient.

I've served on the CH sp.

Emily Fritz: Citizen review committee, and although it's it's it's a decent system.

It certainly has some improvements and we need.

They don't do a very good job of monitoring.

Emily Fritz: They're not, they don't get results.

So that can be done immediately to get that $4 million US Emily Fritz: Use more efficiently.

Also, some of our health care programs are not taking full advantage of the state and federal money that is available.

Emily Fritz: They go straight to the county when actually they should have gone to the federal government, but it's a little bit harder to to Emily Fritz: do business with the federal government.

So that goes straight to the county instead.

And I'm not saying go into the counties fed, but go to the feds first Emily Fritz: max out there.

So there are a lot of things we can do that, that we can start doing right away and I wouldn't be willing to volunteer my time.

Emily Fritz: In any way to dig through this.

I've worked in health and human services for for almost 40 years.

So I have a background in this so I know where where the money is buried.

So there are a lot of things that can be done.

Tom: Okay, Barney Bishop, would you agree that maybe it again is the case of we have a job to do.

We have to build this piece of furniture, but rather Tom: Than using a table saw where we're taking a chainsaw to it.

We're using the wrong tool to get the job done is, is that your take on it or do you have some other thoughts.

Barney Bishop III: No, I think that's a, I think that's a very good analysis about it, but what it really comes down to Tom Barney Bishop III: In for the voters of Leon County is, look, if you look at the 24 page report, other than cherry picking two or three different statistics that point out something bad, which, by the way.

Barney Bishop III: Are cherry pick because the overall statistics, both on child preparedness and on food insecurity are much better than how they portray it they use old data from 2016 Barney Bishop III: Looking at 2019 data.

In fact, Italians and Democrat just indicated that food security for children was down 3.7% just last year.

Barney Bishop III: So there are a lot of things, but what you don't find in the report is any serious analysis.

And so as a result.

Barney Bishop III: We're being asked to sign up late check for $8 million.

We don't know how it's going to be spent.

We don't know where it's going to be spent.

We don't know who's going to get the month.

Barney Bishop III: We don't know what the requirements are to get the money we don't know if you're going to hold them accountable whatsoever.

Barney Bishop III: If this CSC were to pass and they decided that are the $8 million a year that they wanted to spend $4 million building a brand new building.

Barney Bishop III: There's nothing that the county commissioner, or the voters of Leon county can do to stop it.

In fact, under the statute, the county commission is specifically in statutorily prohibited.

Barney Bishop III: From changing any of the budget of the Children's Services Council if they want to pay an executive director $250,000 Barney Bishop III: They're entitled to do that.

And we already know that we have a county commissioners wife who wants to be the executive director Barney Bishop III: That's just wrong.

It's not, it's not right for nepotism.

It's not right, the right way to do business and there's no accountability.

Barney Bishop III: In most importantly, there's no representation.

So we had taxation without representation Barney Bishop III: The proponents love to say, hey, there's 10 people on there and for elected officials will three of them are elected officials and the fourth one is a judge is like an official Barney Bishop III: Nobody's going to have influence over a judge judges make their own decisions.

So you've got three people out of 10 and that's not taxation.

Barney Bishop III: That gives us the appropriate representation to have influence on how the money is going to be spent, because you have carte blanche authority to do whatever they want and that's well Tom: Thank you.

Barney.

You're watching and listening to a special Political Perspectives from WFSU public media.

Tom: And the run up to the general election, the proposal on the ballot, along with a bunch of state constitutional amendments and Tom: Local candidates for a Children Services council for Leon county earlier in the program.

We heard from the proponents we have some opponents that we're talking to right now.

Emily Fritz Tom: And Barney Bishop some dates to keep in mind as we approach the general election vote by mail balance of course already out if you Tom: had expressed an interest in them, you probably are in receipt of them you may have already cast your ballot by now.

Tom: We have early voting that will be kicking off on October 19 with early voting locations all on the supervisor of elections website.

Tom: And then General Election Day is Tuesday, November 3 the way things have been going.

I'm not sure how many people are going to be Tom: Showing up to vote in person on election day, and Florida being one of those states that allows the early counting of mail in ballots.

Tom: We may have an early evening we will see, that's up to Mark Earley and his staff down at the elections office.

Tom: Emily Fritz back again to some of the objections that you folks have to the, the way that the children's Tom: Services Council is proposed on the ballot.

I had heard some also objections of voice, as far as yeah $8 million it on one hand, a lot of money.

Tom: On another hand a drop in the bucket.

When you look at the total need that may be required to be met here in Leon County.

Tom: But have you done any econometrics on what it's going to do as far as the local economy and homeowners and all that is concerned, it is ad valorem.

It is a property tax increase.

How do you see that playing out Emily Fritz: I see that being a big problem businesses are closing people are losing their jobs and we are going to raise their taxes.

Emily Fritz: Some people might lose their phone.

Some businesses that are on the brink of closing may be forced to close.

Emily Fritz: The advocates say it's $42 per hundred thousand that is actually not correct.

It's $50 per 100,000 Emily Fritz: And if the average house and Leon County is 200,000 know if it's homesteaded that would come up to be about 100 about at 75 or $80 a non homesteaded property that would be $100 there is Emily Fritz: There are apartment complexes and Leon county where this will be $10,000 additional tax, I can assure you.

Emily Fritz: The landlord's of that those apartment complexes are going to be forced to raise rent and some of those people probably struggling to pay their rent now.

Emily Fritz: It, it actually disproportionately impacts young people and low income people because low income people and young people often are renters.

So this will have a Emily Fritz: Very bad economic impact also business owners were having a difficult time getting people to come into their business to do business with them.

Emily Fritz: Are going to be forced to raise the price of their goods and services because they have to read because this is another operational costs, they have to make a profit right now they're struggling to make a profit.

This will make their struggle that my Charter.

Tom: Conversely, though, there's the argument that for every dollar that you invest in upfront services for children, particularly early childhood kids.

Tom: You may prevent them going off the rails when they hit adolescence and going out and committing crimes and having to go through department of juvenile justice or the adult Emily Fritz: Criminal Justice Tom: If that's there and and they say, hey, for every buck, you put in, you're going to save on the other side, maybe four or five $6 there.

Emily Fritz: Yeah, well, Emily Fritz: Okay.

Barney Bishop III: Well, I'll just say, Tom, that that would only be true if number one the dollars being spent appropriately, but we don't know that we already know.

Barney Bishop III: That the local not for profits.

According to the proponents aren't doing that good of a job and yet they're going to give the same money.

The new money to those same people.

Barney Bishop III: And they expect them to have a different outcome that's not logical.

That's not a rational thinking Barney Bishop III: You have a variety of businesses business associations that have come out against this.

You've got NEBA which is an association of small businesses.

Barney Bishop III: That is the voice of small business here in Leon County, you have citizens for Responsible spending, you have the budget hawks who've also come out against this year, Leon county commissioner Bill Proctor.

Barney Bishop III: You have Tallahassee city, Commissioner, Jeremy Matlow who are not ones that would typically be in bed with those of us.

Barney Bishop III: That oppose this tax because they are Democrats and they tend to be on the left side.

Barney Bishop III: But despite that fact they are opposed to it because they don't believe there's representation here on taxation, so they believe it's taxation without representation Barney Bishop III: But let's think about for a moment what you said, because the proponents are having advertisements it say that they're going to decrease juvenile crime.

Barney Bishop III: Well, wait a second.

The focus of the study shows that they're going to only deal with children from zero to four.

Barney Bishop III: So children zero to four don't commit juvenile crimes, given our crimes are committed by teenagers.

Barney Bishop III: Now you got bait and switch now they're telling you we're going to deal with zero to four, but always like it.

Barney Bishop III: We're going to go over here and we're going to now deal with juvenile crime.

No, no, that's outside what you sold us that you're going to do this for Barney Bishop III: So stick to the purpose.

Don't bait and switches into something else, then they tell us an advertisement that they're going to stop child abuse before it happens.

Barney Bishop III: I don't know who they have on their site or who's going to be working at the CSC but I can assure you.

Barney Bishop III: That the chances of any dollars being spit that will prevent child abuse from happening, ahead of time is going to be de minimis.

And that's only if the money is is expended perfectly, and that's not likely to happen, it never has happened when government gets involved.

Tom: This may be outside of the purview of what we're talking about right now.

But both of you seem inclined to Tom: Kind of be looking in this direction.

If I can speculate, just a little bit is is it time do you think without as you indicated Barney getting, you know, another layer of government involved.

Tom: To maybe rethink our entire approach to providing human services, whether it's to children, whether it is to expectant moms, whether it's to that we have a ton of organizations, the number of resources.

Tom: That we have in this part of the state by virtue of being the Florida capital and being really tight with some of those state resources.

Tom: Is is pretty intensive.

But how do we coordinate that, so you don't have four or five organizations essentially trying to do the same thing at cross purposes, Emily.

Emily Fritz: Yes.

Well, keep in mind, I worked in Health and Human Services, most of my career, including at the State Medicaid program and also when I was in medical sales.

Emily Fritz: My products were pediatric products.

So I work with a lot of these organizations, there definitely does need to be better coordination, I will, I will agree with that.

Emily Fritz: We've got this pot of money here this pot of money there there's duplication.

There's trip location.

There's corporate location.

Emily Fritz: And frankly, there is competition among the organizations on on going after money and and sometimes Emily Fritz: Frankly, they don't always produce the results there so we there definitely needs to be coordination.

Emily Fritz: We have not maximized.

And this is, I feel strongly about this because I know this from from what's going on at the primary care clinics, we have not maximize our state and local dollars that are available to us.

Emily Fritz: It's, it's the easy way out to for the county to do it.

And I'm not saying the county shouldn't fund, but we need to maximize coordinate quit competing Emily Fritz: And and really dig in and I'm talking about at the ground level.

Looking at the contracts of the CH SP providers.

Emily Fritz: We, we have this process on the front end.

Then they sign a contract, then nothing happens really they send this little report that no one looks at there's no monitoring.

Emily Fritz: They do not have to produce outcomes.

I think there will be some clawback provisions, if they don't produce an outcome if you give me $100,000 and I produce nothing.

And I say, I'm sorry.

You should probably get, you get your hundred thousand dollar respect.

Emily Fritz: That we need coordination there.

One thing I want to read to you that in this is short.

It's in the report, talking about the service providers.

We have now and this is page.

Emily Fritz: Of the planning committees report and it's talking about the need for evidence based practices.

Emily Fritz: It says only a very limited number of programs have been rigorously tested and shown conclusively to be effective.

Emily Fritz: Many providers are simply not in a position to provide clear evidence of past effectiveness.

That's on page 15 of the CSC report.

Emily Fritz: Page 18 says the RFP process, however, must allow for programs that have little or no initial evidence.

So basically, the report says that we are going to fund programs that have not proven proven to be effective with Techstars Emily Fritz: A new bureaucracy on accountable funding programs that have not been proven effective and this is from their own report is Tom: Just a few moments to go by Barney, you get the last word on this.

Barney Bishop III: Well, I would just, I would just say to the point that Barney Bishop III: You were asking the question you're asking.

Tom, there is a plan 15 years ago the state of Florida had this gotcha moment.

Barney Bishop III: And they learned at that point that we were spending hundreds of millions of dollars with providers at the state level to provide services on substance abuse, mental health co occurring disorders dual diagnosis, etc.

Barney Bishop III: So what they did was they went about to create an accountability system.

Barney Bishop III: Whereby in the contracts, the state certified providers of behavioral health care services had to start meeting benchmarks and outcomes, they have to do it every month.

Barney Bishop III: And if those benchmarks and outcomes are not met, then the Chief Financial Officer of the state of Florida doesn't cut a check to reimburse them for the expenses that they say that they're entitled to Barney Bishop III: We have to do the same thing here at the local level.

So we have to take that state model 15 years later and say wait a second.

Barney Bishop III: Before we go out and tax people in spit and get $8 million more.

We got to make sure that the $200 million that is being spit is being spent appropriately and the way that you do that.

Barney Bishop III: Is that you require all of the providers to transition over a two to three year period to go into evidence based programming.

Barney Bishop III: And to use outcomes and benchmarks.

So how do you help those small mom and pop, not for profits you turn to the FSU in the Family, School of Social Work.

Barney Bishop III: They've got graduate students that brilliant professors, they can help these not for profits to look at the evidence based programming, whether it's were a homeless shelter for abused women or for Barney Bishop III: Anybody in.

So if you look at that and use that evidence based programming and you get them on the road.

Barney Bishop III: To outcomes and benchmarks, then what you can assure number one is the $200 billion has been spent already in our community is going to be effective, and it's going to move the needle.

Barney Bishop III: There's no need to add any money until we know that we're getting the best bang for the buck for text for years right now and we're clearly not in the proponents admit that.

Tom: Some thoughts in opposition to the proposed Children Services Council appearing on the November 3 ballad Barney Bishop and Emily for its thank you so much for being part of the discussion here today on perspectives.

Barney Bishop III: Great, great having you on the great for having us on the program.

Tom: You're appreciated folks and thanks also to the proponents who we had earlier on the show perspective is produced by WFSU public media in Tallahassee Tom: Thanks to tailor Cox pushing the buttons and making it all possible today on the audio side along with Paul ,Dam Amy Diaz de Villegas, Trisha Moynihan Tom: And Lydell Rawls our director of content Kim Kelling executive producer and Devin.

Thank you, too, for piecing this together today.

Tom: I'm top line again next week we'll talk about substance abuse.

Did you know it's more common than any of us think and its victims are legion.

We'll find out more about it next week right here on Perspectives.

Thanks for watching and listening.