[MUSIC] >> ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW NEW YORK'S ATTORNEY GENERAL SUES FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP CLAIMING BUSINESS FRAUD IN NEW YORK.

THEN AFTER AMAZON WORKERS ON STATEN ISLAND VOTED TO UNIONIZE THIS SPRING A WAREHOUSE IN THE CAPITAL REGION COULD BE NEXT.

WE'LL TAKE YOU THERE.

AND LATER BUSINESSES SAY NEW YORK IS LEAVING THEM WITH A BILL THEY DIDN'T ASK FOR.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT.

I'M DAN CLARK AND THIS IS NEW YORK NOW.

[MUSIC] WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.

I'M DAN CLARK.

$250 MILLION AND A ONE-WAY TICKET OUT OF NEW YORK'S BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

THAT'S WHAT NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL TISH JAMES WANTS IN A NEW LAWSUIT AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

JAMES AND INVESTIGATORS WITH THE STATE AG'S OFFICE ARE ACCUSING TRUMP HIS THREE ELDEST CHILDREN AND A FEW CLOSE ASSOCIATES OF BUSINESS FRAUD OVER A TEN-YEAR PERIOD.

THE LAWSUIT BASICALLY CLAIMS THAT TRUMP AND HIS FAMILY TOLD BANKS AND INVESTORS THAT THEIR ASSETS, LIKE PROPERTY AND CASH, WERE WORTH MORE THAN THEY ACTUALLY WERE.

THAT WAY THEY COULD CONVINCE THOSE BANKS AND INSURERS TO ALLEGEDLY LEND THEM MORE MONEY AND SELL THEM BETTER INSURANCE COVERAGE.

BECAUSE IT'S A LAWSUIT THIS IS ALL CIVIL MEANING THERE ARE NO CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST TRUMP HERE.

BUT JAMES SAID THAT'S NOT OFF THE TABLE IN THE FUTURE.

>> WE BELIEVE THE CONDUCT ALLEGED IN THIS ACTION ALSO VIOLATES FEDERAL CRIMINAL LAW, INCLUDING ISSUING FALSE STATEMENTS TO FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, AND BANK FRAUD, AND WE ARE REFERRING THOSE CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS WE'VE UNCOVERED TO THE U.S ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK AND THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.

>> LET'S GET INTO IT WITH JOSH SOLOMON FROM THE TIMES UNION.

JOSH, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> ANYTIME.

>> WHAT HAS THE TRUMP CAMP SAID ABOUT THIS LAWSUIT?

>> THEY CALLED IT A WITCH-HUNT.

THAT WAS PRETTY EXPECTED.

THEY'VE BEEN SAYING THAT ALL ALONG.

THE WITCH-HUNT WAS, THEY SAY IT'S POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.

RIGHT?

THEY SAY THIS HAS BEEN ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMES' GOAL ALL ALONG TO GET ME, TO TRY TO TAKE ME DOWN.

AND ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMES HAS SAID THAT SHE WANTS TO TAKE DOWN DONALD TRUMP.

SO THEY'RE PLAYING OFF OF THAT.

THEY'RE ALSO SAYING BUSINESSES, BANKS ARE NOT AGGRIEVED FROM THIS.

THEY GOT THEIR MONEY.

SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

>> TISH JAMES IS FRAMING IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, RIGHT?

SHE'S SAYING, YES, YOU DID DEFRAUD, ALLEGEDLY, THESE BANKS AND INSURERS, BUT ALSO WHAT YOU DID REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THESE BANKS OR INSURERS CAN AFFORD IT WAS ILLEGAL, IF A REGULAR PERSON THAT WASN'T THE PRESIDENT THEY WOULD BE SUED SO WHY NOT YOU.

I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING.

WE WERE TALKING ON AIR BEFORE THAT.

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THAT?

>> YOU KNOW, SHE SAYS WHITE COLLAR CRIME IS CRIME.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

WHEN SHE WAS SAYING DURING HER PRESS CONFERENCE THE OTHER DAY ABOUT NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW, IT REMINDED ME OF THE SAME STATEMENT SHE WAS SAYING WHEN SHE WAS GOING AFTER THEN GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO.

>> YES.

>> NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

AND THAT'S THE KIND OF STANCE HER OFFICE HAS TAKEN.

BUT REMEMBER BEFORE SHE WAS A DEMOCRAT SHE WAS A WORKING FAMILY POLITICIAN.

SHE VERY MUCH SEES IT AS HER GOAL AS A BROOKLYN DEMOCRAT, BORN AND RAISED IN BROOKLYN, AS I'M GOING TO REPRESENT EVERYDAY WORKING PEOPLE.

AND SHE SAYS THIS IS A CRIME.

IF A REGULAR PERSON TRIED TO GET A HOUSE OR OPEN UP A BUSINESS WITH A FALSE CLAIM, THEY WOULD HAVE THE FEDS GOING AFTER THEM.

THEY WOULD HAVE THE STATE GOING AFTER THEM, SO WE'RE GOING TO GO AFTER TRUMP RELATIVE TO WHAT WE THINK IS THE CRIME.

>> YOU KNOW, I DO SEE THEIR ARGUMENT.

I DO SEE THE TRUMP'S CAMP ARGUMENT ABOUT IT BEING POLITICAL.

WE ARE FIVE, SIX WEEKS OUT OF AN ELECTION THAT COULD DETERMINE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

IT'S A VERY BIG ELECTION.

THIS COULD CERTAINLY SWAY VOTERS IN SOME REALLY IMPORTANT SWING DISTRICTS IN NEW YORK WHERE WE DON'T KNOW WHO IS GOING TO WIN THOSE RACES.

AS WE KNOW NEW YORK IS KIND OF A BIG DETERMINING FACTOR IN THOSE MAJORITIES, RIGHT?

SO POLITICALLY, WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, JOSH?

DO YOU THINK THIS ACTUALLY MAKES A BIG SPLASH?

>> WELL, THERE'S SOME CRITICISM OF THE TIMING FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMES BECAUSE TYPICALLY IF DOJ WAS TO PUT OUT A BIG INVESTIGATION OR SOMETHING, THEY WOULD TRY TO REFRAIN FROM DOING IT WITHIN 60 DAYS OF AN ELECTION.

AND IN NEW YORK WE DIDN'T END UP DOING THAT IN THIS CASE.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DID PUT OUT A CASE.

AND SO GRANTED DONALD TRUMP IS NOT ON THE BALLOT.

BUT IF YOU LISTEN TO WHAT GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL'S CAMP SAYS, THEY WOULD SAY TRUMP IS ON THE BALLOT.

THEY WOULD SAY CONGRESSMAN LEE ZELDIN IS A DISCIPLE OF TRUMP AND THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULDN'T VOTE FOR HIM.

MAYBE IT WILL FACTOR INTO THINGS BUT MAYBE IT WILL BE ANOTHER THING THAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THERE'S ABORTION AND THERE'S GUNS AND OH, YEAH, THERE'S STILL DONALD TRUMP.

BUT TO THE FLIPSIDE, MAYBE REPUBLICAN VOTERS SEE THIS AS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN NEW YORK TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THEM AND GOOD BUSINESS PEOPLE AND TRYING TO PUSH OUT GOOD BUSINESSES.

>> I THINK WE'VE REACHED A MOMENT IN U.S.

POLITICS RIGHT NOW WHERE WE ARE MORE PARTISAN THAN EVER.

I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE VERY FAR ON EITHER SIDE.

AND THERE'S FEWER, FEWER PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE.

I MEAN, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION ON THE POLITICAL SPHERE OF THINGS.

SO I CAN IMAGINE THIS WOULDN'T CHANGE THINGS TOO MUCH.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW IT CHANGES THINGS AT THE POLLS.

BUT THIS WAS A LAWSUIT.

SO IT WAS FILED THIS WEEK.

WHAT COMES NEXT?

>> JUST WANT TO SAY ONE QUICK POINT ON THAT IS THAT INDEPENDENTS ARE ESSENTIAL TO LEE ZELDIN WINNING THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

HE'S GOT TO WIN THE OVERALL MAJORITY OF THEM.

SO THOSE FEW OF YOU THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT ARE IN THE MIDDLE, IF YOU'RE NOT WON BY THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE THEN THERE'S VERY UNLIKELY TO BE A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.

IN TERMS OF NEXT STEPS ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMES IS ASKING FOR $250 MILLION.

SHE'S ASKING FOR THE TRUMP FAMILY FROM BEING BARRED FROM RUNNING THE ORGANIZATION.

SHE'S ALSO REFERRING IT TO FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS BOTH THE IRS IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT AND NEW YORK LOOKING TO TRY TO, SAYING WELL WE CAN'T RECOMMEND CRIMINAL CHARGES HERE BUT LOOK AT THE SCHEME THAT WE FOUND AND YOU GUYS SHOULD LOOK AT THAT AND WE'LL SEE WHAT THEY DO WITH IT.

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

AS YOU AND I BOTH KNOW, LITIGATION CAN TAKE QUITE A LONG TIME.

SO WHILE THERE WAS A BIG HEADLINE THIS WEEK, WE MAY NOT KNOW WHAT THE RESULT OF THIS LAWSUIT IS FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.

AND BY THAT TIME, WE DON'T KNOW WHO WILL BE IN THE OVAL OFFICE AND WHO IS GOING TO BE CONTROLLING CONGRESS.

SO WE'LL SEE.

JOSH SOLOMON FROM THE TU, THANK YOU AS ALWAYS.

>> NO PROBLEM.

>> ALL RIGHT.

MOVING ON NOW TO A STORY WE TOLD YOU ABOUT LAST WEEK.

IT WAS ABOUT FOUR MONTHS AGO THAT AMAZON WORKERS ON STATEN ISLAND FORMED THE FIRST UNION IN THE COMPANY'S HISTORY.

AND THAT WAS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE THE UNION WAS ENTIRELY WORKER-LED BECOMING WHAT'S NOW CALLED THE AMAZON LABOR UNION.

AND SINCE THEN AMAZON WORKERS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE LAUNCHED THEIR OWN UNION EFFORTS.

THAT INCLUDES A GROUP OF WORKERS IN THE ALBANY AREA.

PHOTOJOURNALIST THOMAS CONNELLY HAS THAT STORY.

>> I THINK THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT THAT THE CONSUMER HEARS WHAT IS EXACTLY GOING ON IN THAT WAREHOUSE, WHAT WE GO THROUGH TO GET THEIR PACKAGE OUT.

>> KIMBERLY LANE IS ONE OF HUNDREDS OF WORKERS AT AMAZON'S ALB1 DISTRIBUTION FACILITY IN RENSSELAER COUNTY.

IT'S A HUGE BUILDING, WITH A CONSTANT FLOW OF TRUCKS IN AND OUT, NESTLED IN A QUIET TOWN JUST OUTSIDE OF ALBANY.

BUT NEXT MONTH THAT TOWN COULD BE THE SITE OF SOMETHING BIG.

LANE AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER WORKERS AT THE FACILITY WILL VOTE ON WHETHER TO FORM A UNION; AND IF THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL, IT WOULD BE JUST THE SECOND TIME THAT'S HAPPENED IN AMAZON'S HISTORY.

THE FIRST WAS THIS SPRING ON STATEN ISLAND WHERE WORKERS FORMED THE AMAZON LABOR UNION CLAIMING UNSAFE CONDITIONS AND LOW PAY.

IN ALBANY, UNION ORGANIZERS SAY THE SAME.

HEATHER GOODALL WHO WORKS AT THE FACILITY IS LEADING THOSE EFFORTS.

>> I HAD TAKEN PHOTOS AND VIDEOS OF SEVERAL AISLES AND BINS COLLAPSING WITHIN THE WAREHOUSE.

THOSE BINS HAD COLLAPSED TO THE POINT WHERE NOW THE SHELVING ON THE SIDES WERE NOW STICKING OUT, PROTRUDING INTO THE AISLES, OFTENTIMES CAUSING LACERATIONS ON EMPLOYEES.

>> AMAZON HAS PUSHED BACK, URGING WORKERS TO VOTE AGAINST A UNION.

IN A STATEMENT AN AMAZON SPOKESPERSON SAID, QUOTE, AS A COMPANY WE DON'T THINK UNIONS ARE THE BEST ANSWER FOR OUR EMPLOYEES.

OUR FOCUS REMAINS ON WORKING DIRECTLY WITH OUR TEAM TO CONTINUE MAKING AMAZON A GREAT PLACE TO WORK.

BUT ORGANIZERS DISAGREE.

THEY DON'T THINK AMAZON IS A GREAT PLACE TO WORK.

AT LEAST NOT RIGHT NOW.

THEY WANT BETTER PAY.

AND CLAIM THAT CONDITIONS CREATED BY AMAZON AT THE FACILITY ARE BOTH UNFAIR AND UNSAFE.

QUOTAS FOR EMPLOYEES DETERMINE PERFORMANCE.

AND WHEN A WORKER WANTS TO TAKE A BREAK OR USE THE BATHROOM, THAT COULD IMPACT THEIR NUMBERS.

AND IF THAT HAPPENS, WORKERS SAY THERE COULD BE CONSEQUENCES.

GOODALL AGAIN.

>> LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, 50 ITEMS AN HOUR.

YOU HAVE TO PACK THOSE.

IF YOU DON'T PACK THOSE, THEN YOU COULD BE WRITTEN UP OR FIRED FOR QUALITY OR FOR NOT MEETING YOUR QUOTA.

LET'S SAY YOU'VE INCREASED YOUR FLUIDS TO STAY HYDRATED.

AND YOU GO TO THE BATHROOM.

AND YOU GO, LET'S SAY, THREE ADDITIONAL TIMES A DAY, FIVE MINUTES EACH, THAT'S 15 MINUTES THEY'RE GOING TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU WERE DOING.

IF YOU SAY I WAS GOING TO THE BATHROOM, WELL, YOU NEED TO GO ON YOUR BREAKS AND THERE'S A RISK YOU CAN GET WRITTEN UP.

>> IT'S SO HOT, YOU'RE WORKING SO HARD YOU'RE CONSTANTLY HAVING TO DRINK WATER, AND IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO NOT HAVE TO USE THE BATHROOM EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE.

AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WAREHOUSE, YOUR BATHROOMS ARE ALL THE WAY DOWN THERE OR ALL THE WAY DOWN THERE.

SO IT'S GOING TO TAKE YOU A GOOD 15 MINUTES TO LEAVE YOUR STATION, GO USE THE FACILITIES; AND ONCE IT GETS TO A POINT THAT THEY THINK IT'S A LITTLE TOO DISCONCERTING, THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO FIRE YOU.

>> AND WORKERS SAY THAT CREATES A WORKING ENVIRONMENT THAT ISN'T SAFE, WHERE EMPLOYEES SHOULD WORK THROUGH PAIN OR FATIGUE TO KEEP THEIR NUMBERS UP AT THE RISK OF INJURY.

IT'S A PROBLEM THAT WORKERS SAY WAS MADE WORSE DURING THE PANDEMIC WHEN ONLINE ORDERS WENT UP AND THAT PROMPTED NEW LEGISLATION AT THE STATE CAPITAL.

THE STATE LEGISLATURE PASSED THE WAREHOUSE WORKER PROTECTION ACT EARLIER THIS YEAR IN RESPONSE TO THOSE CLAIMS.

IT'S SPONSORED BY STATE SENATOR JESSICA RAMOS, A DEMOCRAT FROM QUEENS WHO CHAIRS THE LABOR COMMITTEE.

>> WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS ALLOW WORKERS TO HAVE A BATHROOM BREAK.

WHAT THIS BILL WOULD DO IS REALLY REGULATE THE ALGORITHM THAT COMPANIES LIKE AMAZON AND OTHERS USE TO HAVE CONTROL OVER THEIR WORKFORCE.

AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY'RE TREATED LIKE ROBOTS.

NOT HUMAN BEINGS.

OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, WE'VE SEEN WAREHOUSE WORK EXPLODE.

RIGHT?

THIS IS A VERY RAPIDLY GROWING INDUSTRY IN NEW YORK STATE.

AND THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC, WHEN PEOPLE WERE STAYING HOME AND ORDERING MORE PACKAGES THAN USUAL OF COURSE THERE WAS A HIGHER DEMAND FOR THIS WORKFORCE.

AND SO IT SHOWED US THAT WE WERE QUICKLY WALKING INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE WERE ALLOWING HIGH TECH SWEAT SHOPS TO OPERATE IN NEW YORK STATE.

>> IT'S BEEN MORE THAN THREE MONTHS SINCE THAT BILL PASSED.

LARGELY ALONG PARTY LINES.

AND LAWMAKERS ARE HOPING GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL SIGNS IT AND SOON.

>> NOW IT'S SITTING ON THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AND IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE ANOTHER WORKER GETS INJURED OR WORSE.

>> AND FOR THE WORKERS IN ALBANY AND ACROSS NEW YORK, INJURIES HAVE BEEN TOP OF MIND.

AN ANALYSIS OF AMAZON SELF-REPORTED DATA FROM THE NATIONAL EMPLOYMENT LAW PROJECT, A WORKERS RIGHTS GROUP, SHOWED A 64% INCREASE OF INJURY RATES AT AMAZON WAREHOUSE AND LOGISTICS FACILITIES FROM 2020 TO 2021.

IN ALBANY, WORKERS SAY THE ALB1 WAREHOUSE IS THE SITE OF REGULAR AMBULANCE CALLS, A CLAIM THAT SOURCES FAMILIAR WITH EMS ACTIVITY IN RENSSELAER COUNTY BACKED UP.

KEVIN QUINN ANOTHER WORKER AT THE WAREHOUSE.

>> I HAD A 50-POUND BOX ALMOST HIT ME IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD WHEN I WAS PASSING DOWN BY AN AISLE.

IT WAS HELD BY ONE ELASTIC STRAP.

IT WAS LEANING OUT OF THE BIN.

ALL OF A SUDDEN I HEAR SOMETHING HIT THE UPPER SHELF.

WE DRIVE THESE CARS THAT CAN GO UP AND DOWN IN THE AIR.

IT LITERALLY HIT THE BACK OF THAT PIT AND LUCKILY IT WAS DEFLECTED AND IT WENT OTHERWISE IT WOULD HAVE HIT ME RIGHT ON THE BACK OF MY HEAD AND SHOULDER.

>> AMAZON THE COMPANY WOULDN'T HAVE THE TIME TO GIVE US A TOUR OF THE ALB1 FACILITY BEFORE NEXT MONTH'S UNION VOTE BUT CHALLENGED THE CLAIMS OF UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.

IN A STATEMENT, A SPOKESPERSON SAID, QUOTE, WE STRONGLY DISAGREE.

THE SAFETY AND WELL-BEING OF OUR EMPLOYEES AT ALB1 AND ACROSS THE COMPANY ARE OUR HIGHEST PRIORITY.

WE ALSO WORK CLOSELY WITH HEALTH AND SAFETY EXPERTS AND SCIENTISTS, CONDUCT THOUSANDS OF SAFETY INSPECTIONS EACH DAY IN OUR BUILDINGS AND HAVE MADE HUNDREDS OF CHANGES AS A RESULT OF EMPLOYEE FEEDBACK ON HOW WE CAN IMPROVE THEIR WELL-BEING AT WORK.

BUT WORKERS IN ALBANY, AT LEAST, SAY THEY STILL DON'T FEEL SAFE AT WORK OR APPRECIATED.

ANOTHER BIG PART OF WHY THEY WANT TO UNION ICE IS TO BARGAIN FOR HIGHER WAGES THE STARTING PAY FOR THESE KINDS OF POSITIONS AT AMAZON IS $18 AN HOUR.

ACCORDING TO THE COMPANY.

WORKERS HOPE THAT CHANGES.

IF THEIR UNION VOTE PASSES NEXT MONTH.

>> THE UNION IS GOING TO PROVIDE THEM, I THINK, OTHER THAN THE WAGES AND PLOWING THE SAFETY MEASURES THAT WE NEED TO PROTECT EMPLOYEES, I DO BELIEVE THAT IT'S ALSO GOING TO OFFER THAT JOB SECURITY THAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WORK EVERY DAY, IS THIS MY LAST DAY?

I CAN'T GO TO THE BATHROOM.

I CAN'T LEAVE MY STATION.

SO THE UNION IS GOING TO OFFER THEM THAT PROTECTION THAT THEY DESERVE.

>> IN THE MEANTIME, WORKERS SAY AMAZON LOBBIED AGAINST A UNION.

IF WORKERS VOTE YES, THEY WOULD JOIN THE AMAZON LABOR UNION, THE SAME UNION THAT REPRESENTS WORKERS ON STATEN ISLAND.

BUT WORKERS SAY MANAGEMENT HAS HELD MANDATORY MEETINGS BASHING THE UNION AND LOBBYING WORKERS TO VOTE NO.

>> IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS, WITH CAPTIVE AUDIENCE MEETINGS, AND TELLING EVERYBODY THAT ALU IS UNTESTED AND UNPROVEN.

AND THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO INSTILL A LOT OF FEAR INTO EMPLOYEES AS FAR AS SIGNING CARDS.

>> AMAZON HAS CREATED A CULTURE OF INTIMIDATION.

AND THAT, I THINK, PLAYS INTO THE FEAR OF LOSING YOUR JOB, THE FEAR OF GOING TO THE BATHROOM.

THE FEAR OF MISSING UPT.

GOING TO WORK SICK.

ALL OF THESE FEARS, AMAZON HAS VERY SKILLFULLY CREATED A CULTURE OF FEAR.

AND THEY DID THAT STRATEGICALLY.

SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE EMPLOYEES KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE IN FEAR ANYMORE.

YOU'RE GOING TO WORK.

AND HOW DO WE ELIMINATE THAT FEAR?

WE SHOW SUPPORT.

>> AMAZON DEFENDED THE PRACTICE SAYING THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO SHARE THEIR SIDE WITH WORKERS WHO MIGHT BE ON THE FENCE.

IN A STATEMENT, A SPOKESPERSON SAID, QUOTE, HOLDING MEETINGS ABOUT UNIONS WITH EMPLOYEES IS A PROCESS THAT'S BEEN LEGALLY RECOGNIZED FOR MORE THAN 70 YEARS.

LIKE MANY OTHER COMPANIES, WE HOLD THESE MEETINGS BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THE FACTS ABOUT JOINING A UNION AND THE ELECTION PROCESS ITSELF.

BOTH SIDES WILL HAVE THE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO MAKE THEIR CASE.

WORKERS WILL VOTE ON WHETHER TO FORM A UNION IN MID-OCTOBER.

FOR NEW YORK NOW, I'M THOMAS CONNELLY.

>> AND WE'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE UNION VOTE WRAPS UP NEXT MONTH.

BUT STICKING WITH NEWS ABOUT BUSINESS IN NEW YORK.

NEW YORK'S BUSINESSES WILL BE STUCK WITH A NEW BILL IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS RELATED TO UNEMPLOYMENT COSTS DURING THE PANDEMIC IF THE STATE DOESN'T STEP IN.

AND AS OF NOW THAT'S NOT LOOKING LIKELY.

THAT'S BECAUSE AT THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC NEW YORK STATE BORROWED ABOUT $10 BILLION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO FUND UNEMPLOYMENT COSTS.

AT THE TIME THE STATE HAD RUN OUT OF CASH BECAUSE THERE WAS SUCH A HIGH DEMAND FOR UNEMPLOYMENT.

REMEMBER NEW YORK HAD ALL NONESSENTIAL BUSINESSES SHUT DOWN AT THE TIME.

BUT NOW THAT LOAN HAS COME DUE.

AND BECAUSE OF HOW THE SYSTEM IS SET UP IF THE STATE DOESN'T PAY IT THE INTEREST FROM THE LOAN FALLS ONTO BUSINESSES.

AND FOR MANY THAT'S NOT A SMALL COST.

SO FOR MORE ON ALL THAT I SPOKE WITH KEN POKALSKY FROM THE STATE BUSINESS COUNCIL AND ASHLEY RANSLOW FROM THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS.

KEN, ASHLEY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SITTING DOWN WITH ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> ASHLEY, TURNING TO YOU FIRST.

COMPLICATED ISSUE.

BOIL IT DOWN TO WHAT IT MEANS FOR BUSINESSES THE GROUND.

SO IF I'M A BUSINESS, DO WE HAVE ANY SENSE WHAT THIS IS GOING TO COST ME?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO BUSINESS OWNERS RIGHT NOW WITH THESE INTEREST ASSESSMENT SURCHARGES ARE HAVING TO PAY $27.60 PER EMPLOYEE.

THAT'S DUE TO THE STATE THIS MONTH.

SO THEY KNOW THAT THAT COST, THEY KNOW THAT COST TO THEM.

BUT I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THAT COST IS IN ADDITION TO INCREASE IN THEIR STATE UI TAXES.

ON AVERAGE, BUSINESSES ARE PAYING AN EXTRA $200 PER EMPLOYEE IN STATE UI TAXES COMPARED TO THEIR 2020 RATES.

AND THAT'S ALSO ON TOP OF JUST THEIR EXISTING STATE UI TAXES, WHICH AVERAGED BETWEEN $20,800 PER EMPLOYEE.

SO THE COST, WHILE IT'S $27.60, IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A LOT, BUT WHEN IT'S A CUMULATIVE EFFECT IT IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT NEW YORK STATE'S ASKING SMALL BUSINESSES AND BUSINESSES IN GENERAL TO PAY.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU THAT.

DO YOU SEE THIS AS AN ISSUE FOR BOTH SMALL AND LARGE BUSINESSES?

IS IT THE SAME IMPACT TO THEM?

CAN LARGE BUSINESSES MAYBE FOOT MORE OF THE BILL?

OR IS IT PAYING FOR BUSINESSES ACROSS THE BOARD?

>> IT'S PAYING FOR BUSINESSES ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND KEN CAN SPEAK A LITTLE MORE TO THE LARGE BUSINESS PIECE.

WE REPRESENT JUST SMALL BUSINESSES.

THEY'RE CERTAINLY FEELING THE PINCH FROM INFLATION TO SUPPLY CHAIN DISRUPTIONS, TO LABOR SHORTAGES.

THEY'RE ALREADY EXPERIENCING A TON OF FINANCIAL PRESSURES.

AND THIS IS ANOTHER ADDED COST ON TOP OF IT.

I'VE SPOKEN WITH A NUMBER OF OUR SMALL BUSINESSES ASKING THEM HOW ARE YOU COPING WITH THIS, HOW ARE YOU COPING WITH ALL THESE INCREASED COSTS.

AND A LOT OF IT IS THEY'RE HAVING TO RAISE PRICES.

THEY'RE NOT FILLING OPEN POSITIONS.

THEY'RE DECREASING HOURS.

THEY'RE HAVING TO MAKE DIFFICULT ADJUSTMENTS.

I TALKED TO ONE BUSINESS OWNER.

HE'S NO LONGER TAKING A PAYCHECK JUST IN ORDER TO ABSORB THESE ADDITIONAL COSTS.

>> REMEMBER, THIS ISN'T THE ONLY INCREASE COST THAT BUSINESSES ARE PLAYING, LABOR COSTS HAVE GONE UP.

SUPPLY COSTS HAVE GONE UP.

ENERGY COSTS HAVE GONE UP.

SO THE SIGNIFICANT THING ABOUT NEW YORK STATE IS WE'RE UNIQUE IN THIS WAY WE'VE NOT RESPONDED TO THIS PROBLEM.

AND LOOKING AT OTHER WAYS, $27 A HEAD, IT'S AN $8 BILLION TAX INCREASE ON BUSINESS.

IF YOU PRESENT IT THAT WAY, THAT GETS ATTENTION.

IT'S AN $8 BILLION TAX ON BUSINESS.

AND LARGE AND LARGE BUSINESSES, YEAH, CAN MAYBE ABSORB IT BETTER.

BUT IF YOU HAVE 2,000 PEOPLE IN THE STATE THESE NUMBERS ADD UP.

AND SOME BUSINESSES, EVEN LARGE BUSINESSES, WORK ON A THIN MARGIN.

THEY'RE COMPETING WITH OUT-OF-STATE COMPANIES WHO AREN'T INCURRING THESE COSTS.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT.

SOME 35 STATES HAVE PUT PUBLIC DOLLARS INTO THEIR UI SYSTEMS IN RESPONSE.

THE IMPACT OF THE PANDEMIC.

TEXAS DID $7 BILLION.

CALIFORNIA EARLIER THIS YEAR DID TWO AND A HALF BILLION.

OTHER THAN MASSACHUSETTS WHICH DID SOMETHING DIFFERENT, NEW YORK STATE IS THE ONLY STATE THAT'S NOT ACTIVE.

THEY'VE DONE NOTHING IN TERMS OF LEGISLATION TO HELP RELIEVE THIS COST BURDEN ON BUSINESS.

REMEMBER, WHY THIS HAPPENED.

IN MARCH OF 2020, NEW YORK STATE SAID UNLESS YOU WERE AN ESSENTIAL BUSINESS 100 PERCENT REDUCTION IN FORCE.

YOUR EMPLOYEES COULD NOT COME TO WORK.

WE CLOSED BUSINESSES DOWN.

AND UI HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN EXPERIENCED RATED PROGRAM.

IT'S 100% EMPLOYER FINANCED AND YOU PAY MORE IF YOU LAY PEOPLE OFF AND INCUR COSTS TO THE SYSTEM.

HERE, GOVERNMENT SAID YOU HAVE TO DO THIS.

WE THOUGHT IT MADE A LOT OF SENSE, AND 35 OTHER STATES AGREED, THAT THERE SHOULD BE A PUBLIC/PRIVATE COST SHARING OF THIS $8 BILLION INCREASE IN EXPENSES.

>> YOU BOTH HAVE MENTIONED IT A BIT.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU HOW THIS IMPACTS THE PEOPLE YOU REPRESENT IN TERMS OF GOING FORWARD.

I'LL START WITH YOU FIRST, ASHLEY.

FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, $27 A HEAD IS NOT -- I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE A SMALL EXPENSE FOR PEOPLE.

BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT A MOM-AND-POP SHOP WHO HAS 20 EMPLOYEES, THAT ADDS UP REALLY QUICK, CUTTING INTO THEIR RENT.

SO GOING FORWARD, IF THEY HAVE TO PAY THIS COST, IF THEY'RE NOT HELPED AT ALL, WHAT'S THE CONSEQUENCE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES?

>> IT'S HUGE.

ESPECIALLY GIVEN WHAT WE'RE SEEING AND WHAT WE'RE READING ABOUT WITH THE FUTURE OF THE ECONOMY AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT PROJECTIONS WHERE THE STATE BUDGET'S -- IT'S GOING TO BE IN THE RED.

NOT GOING TO BE AS WELL OFF AS EVERYONE THOUGHT.

AND YOU'RE HEARING EVERYONE TALK ABOUT THIS RECESSION.

SO THINK ABOUT A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER WHO NEVER RECOUPED THE LOSSES OF THE PANDEMIC, WHO NOW IS HAVING TO PAY THESE ADDED COSTS.

AND MIGHT BE STARING DOWN A RECESSION.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HUGE CONSEQUENCES HERE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, FOR THE LOCAL ECONOMY, AND FOR THE MAIN STREET THAT REALLY DRIVE OUR COMMUNITIES, MAKING SURE WE'RE GETTING THE TAX REVENUE WE NEED AND ALL OF THAT.

SO NEW YORK STATE DOING NOTHING AND STARING DOWN A POTENTIAL RECESSION IS EVEN MORE DEVASTATING.

>> KEN, WHAT ABOUT BIG BUSINESSES?

AS WE SAID, THEY MAY BE ABLE TO SHOULDER THE BURDEN A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT OBVIOUSLY IT HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON THEM.

BUT I THINK THE IMPACT IS DIFFERENT FOR THOSE BUSINESSES.

>> AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS.

I MEAN, IT'S STILL A BIG NUMBER BECAUSE IT'S HEAD COUNT BASED, SALARY BASED THE MORE YOU PAY IN AGGREGATE SALARY THE MORE YOU PAY IN UNEMPLOYMENT SHARE OF TAXES, AND IT'S JUST ONE MORE, IT'S JUST ONE MORE THING.

IF YOU LOOK AT OVER THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS, HOW MANY NEW LABOR LAW MANDATES ARE BEING IMPOSED ON BUSINESSES, VERY UNIQUE THING LIKE NO OTHER STATE OR HANDFUL OF STATES DO.

IT ADDS UP.

IT ADDS UP.

AND RECENT DATA SHOWED WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW STATES THAT HAVE NOT HIT THE PRE-PANDEMIC JOBS NUMBER.

I THINK WE'RE SOMETHING LIKE 300,000 SHY.

THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.

THE COST STRUCTURE IN NEW YORK STATE, THE STATE'S, PARTICULARLY UPSTATE'S CHALLENGES OF RETAINING A WORKFORCE, ALL ADDS UP THE AN ECONOMY THAT'S UNDERPERFORMING.

IT'S THE OLD SAYING YOU DIE THE DEATH OF A THOUSAND CUTS, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CUTS.

>> STATE LEADERS WILL TELL YOU, THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS, WILL TELL YOU THIS SHOULD BE A FEDERAL RESPONSIBILITY.

THE STATE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY BACK THE 7 BILLION, THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD STEP IN PAY THAT FOR THE STATE.

WHAT DO YOU BOTH SAY ABOUT THAT?

>> WE KNOW WHAT CONGRESS SAID TO THAT.

WE GAVE YOU $24 BILLION, WHAT YOU DID WAS UP TO THE STATE.

WE HEARD THIS FROM SOME OF OUR CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS, 35 OTHER STATES TOOK CARES ACT AND ARPA FUNDS AND PUT IT TOWARDS THEIR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE PROGRAMS.

NEW YORK STATE DIDN'T.

DON'T EXPECT ANOTHER DOLLAR FOR FUNDS FOR THIS.

>> ASHLEY.

>> SAME THING.

IT'S A PIPE DREAM TO THINK THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO COME IN AND JUST FORGIVE NEW YORK STATE'S OUTSTANDING DEBT.

IF YOU'RE A LAWMAKER IN ANY ONE OF THESE OTHER STATES, WE'LL USE TEXAS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE 7 BILLION THEY PUT TOWARDS THEIR UI TO PAY OFF THEIR DEBT, THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO AGREE TO FORGIVING NEW YORK STATE'S DEBT.

SO THIS IDEA THAT'S BEING PUSHED BY LAWMAKERS, BY ALBANY'S LEADERS, THAT'S THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE TO FORGIVE THIS, ALL YOU'RE DOING IS KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD AND NOT ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM AND YOU'RE HAVING SMALL BUSINESS SHOULDER THE FULL COST OF PAYING THIS BACK, HOPING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> AND 80% OF THE OUTSTANDING DEBT, MAYBE CLOSE TO 90, IS TWO STATES.

CALIFORNIA.

AND THEY'RE IN THE $17 BILLION RANGE.

AND US.

AND EVERYONE ELSE IS -- ILLINOIS STILL HAS A LITTLE BIT.

AND THE OTHER STATES ARE A COUPLE HUNDRED -- >> COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION.

>> RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBERS.

>> WOW.

>> BUT NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA ARE LEADING THE PACK HERE>> YEAH.

>> WE LEAD A LOT IN NEW YORK MAYBE SOMETIMES NOT IN THE BEST WAYS.

KEN POKALSKI FROM THE BUSINESS COUNSEL, ASHLEY RANSLOW FROM THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF BUSINESS.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> AS OF NOW, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE STATE HAS ANY PLANS TO STEP IN BUT WE'LL LET YOU KNOW IF THAT CHANGES.

UNTIL THEN THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S NEW YORK NOW.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.